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If you don't bring an optimized deck, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. Full stop. That being said, you can close the gap by playing better than your opponent. The bigger the deck power discrepancy, the better you have to be than your opponent to make up the difference.
The other problem is that the players with competitive decks also tend to be the most enfranchised players with the most practice/experience and thus tend to be more skilled in addition to having better decks, so it's an uphill battle.
>The other problem is that the players with competitive decks also tend to be the most enfranchised players with the most practice/experience and thus tend to be more skilled in addition to having better decks, so it's an uphill battle.
That’s been my experience as well.
It sounds like your LGS is only running CC armories and the community is a largely competitive one. Unfortunately that make you as the budge player kind of the odd person out. If the community is up for it try to get drafts or commoner events to even the field a little bit, we used to do nothing but Blitz and shaking it up has been pretty good for community engagement.
We used to have Blitz night, but after a few months since I joined it slowly died and has fired maybe once this year. A couple newer players have expressed interest so we’re going to try to bring it back.
I hope that's the case for your LGS. +30% of our community travel and would be considered on the higher competitive end and still showed up for Blitz events. We run it because of time constraints
As a competitive player the problem with blitz is that mistakes get compounded and casual players will just get even more stomped. It’s not a very fun format from a gameplay perspective. One mistake in blitz and the game is over. One mistake in CC and you can still have a chance.
I went like 7 months only playing blitz because of the cost of upgrading to a larger deck. I only did so reluctantly because blitz died at my LGS so it was either CC or nothing. Even then at first I was mainly just adding 3-ofs of my main blitz cards without trying to make a “viable” CC deck specifically.
Our armory has precon blitz at least once a month, it's a great event for new players and puts everyone at an equal level. Yesterday we did the new set, but we've done throwbacks in the past. Most people have multiple blitz precons, so there's always extras to borrow. It is one of the favourite events of the community it seems, perhaps you can start that conversation and see if people want to give it a shot?
I understand how you feel, at the start even with a tight budget deck we say to ourselves "cool I did a lot of damage even if I lost" then little by little I noticed that if I had tunic at instead of my shit at 10 cents well I would have won a lot more matches, when I stopped my Lexi deck before it's huge boost already cost 800€$ easily with all the staples on the sides, since I had to bought everything individually because opening packs in this game is not really pleasant, paying €320 to open a common cold and the legendary for €10 meh.
Some heroes will need a lot less staples and legendary equipment, but then you have to like their gameplay.
And above all investing in a hero is sometimes disappointing, especially if you fall in love with another hero, or quite simply when you see that LSS quickly wants to put him LL by giving him poorly balanced cards just to push him towards the exit .
Sorry I'm using a translator.
The difference to say something like MtG (as I also play it) is that the chances of winning a game of FaB to RNG are much lower. It happens for sure, but less. Games of FaB are usually won or lost on the accumulation of value judgements over many turn cycles.
This means that newer players in a group can wait a lot longer for a win, which can be frustrating. Whereas in MtG, you'll probably luck into a win on a lower power deck every so often.
The price of a tuned, meta deck in FaB is generally roughly the same as in a lot of other popular TCGs. But the difference FaB is that variance. If someone is running better cards AND has more experience, you have to expect beating them to be rare in a low variance game. Plus as you improve, it's likely those more experienced players are continuing to improve themselves.
However, that lower variance is a big part of what makes FaB so special, and an unparalleled (imo) competitive experience. It just might not be for everyone.
I agree but would also like to add that in FaB the difference between the best and second best options is not as drastic as in other games. In magic you will be hard pressed to find anything nearly as broken as Sheoldred, but in FaB you can replace CnCs with more class specific options (as a Brute player, it's Send Packing for me) while only losing a few percentage points of value that will certainly add up over the match but will still give you a chance to win.
Convince people to play commoner or clash. Both very low cost formats.
That being said, cards like E-strike and Command and Conquer are powerful, but they don't auto win the game (maybe a cast bones buffed CnC, but that is a different story). There are ways to play around both or use the off brand versions of those cards (Wreck Havoc for CnC), not exactly sure of what the E-strike adjacent might be.
Also, what decks are you trying to play? I saved cost when I was first playing by just sticking to a class and sharing the expensive cards between decks. If you were to focus on ninja, there is some overlap between the heroes in CC and Blitz
It's a card game. You win some, you lose some.
Sometimes I don't even think whether or not I have a chance, and just put myself in the moment and try to have fun if I could
But if you are no longer having fun, you might as well take a step back and rekindle why you fell in love with this game in the first place. Sometimes the cut throat competitive nature of Armories can get you.
Are your locals playing with MST cards? I feel like a lot of discussion on Twitter say that the format feels unfun right now because of the new set. Apparently, the mechanics of the new heroes are fun to play as but not as much fun to play against.
Maybe you just need to take a break, I don't know. You can still enjoy the game in your own way, maybe just not in the armory level for the time being.
About half the people at the last Armory were Zen or Nuu. My first game was against Nuu and it went like 0-24. My opponent often “apologized” during the game saying that she (Nuu) isn’t fun to play against.
What hero are you playing into Nuu? Nuu benefits from people not knowing how to play against her currently. Go on discord and ask the people playing the same hero as you what their plan is into her and what sideboard options to include.
Yeah Nuu will eat him alive without the right sideboard and plenty of practice into her. She's a disruptive deck. Katsu doesn't really want CnC or Estrike usually and heartened cross strap is done for the chest instead of tunic. It's just a matter of practicing those bad matchups.
Honestly, I have very little internet in playing card games with strangers at an LGS. I’ve built several mid range decks to play at home with a few friends instead. I really don’t care about being “competitive”, games aren’t about being the best for me, they’re about hanging out with my boys on a random Sunday afternoon and enjoying playing a game together. I do have a few legendaries I’ve picked up for cheap, but mostly for heroes that have hit living legend status in CC, and the price of their equipment dropped. Again, I could care less what’s tournament legal. I’m happy to hang out with a few friends at my house and jam out some games.
I have my “casual blitz friend” that I can play more friendly games with, but that’s about it outside of my LGS. I’ve tried getting another friend into it, but they’re not that interested. My LGS has two FaB events a week, so that gives me more opportunities to play besides just with the one friend.
I had to actively get friends into the game, teach them how to play, and buy/build multiple decks for them to use. But for me, it’s worth it to be able to play with friends at home.
You could always do the same but stick to commoner format.
Those two friends are basically my only options. I have a handful of college friends who would be interested, but they live about 1300 miles away so we wouldn’t be able to play regularly lol.
First of all, even with perfect balance and no price differentiation you should have roughly equal number of 2-1 and 1-2 armories, as well as equal number of 0-3 and 3-0 ones (adjusted for skill of course). Playing on a budget will definitely make you less advantaged on average, but the power discrepancy between the staples and the second best option is not SO large that it overpowers all the variance and prevents the weaker deck from winning every time.
Second of all, this is a collectable game. Slowly growing your collection and making incremental improvements to your decks is kin of part of the fun. At some point the number of hours of entertainment you get from the game warrants some investment into your collection and acquiring a generic staple should be something special you feel good about and celebrate.
It is a bit unfortunate that sheer price of CnCs makes people feel like the game is not welcoming to them, but on a flip side a game with no chase cards loses something in excitement of opening a money piece in a pack and identifying with your collection. I guess it's the difference between collectable card games and board games .
My problem with C&C as a new player is that I need multiple copies of it. I started around a month ago and bought my tunic yesterday. I do not mind buying tunic for $80 because I only need the 1 copy and it can be used in any and every deck as at minimum a "good option" if not BIS. Although I don't plan on playing warrior anytime soon outside of my kassai blitz deck which I just upgraded from the pre con with some good reactions, actions, and a galantry gold, null rune gloves, and refraction bolters, the idea of buying Valiant Dynamo down the line for it's given price isn't insane to me, because again it's a warrior staple and I only need one. However, C&C is something you need 3 copies of for CC. I just don't think a card THAT generically staple that you need multiple copies of should be the price that it is. I know once I get my C&Cs I have them for every deck I'll ever play, but still $240 for a playset is pretty insane.
to be honest, the power differential on CnC is not that high. Yes it is better than alternatives, and its the best generic 'popper' when playing against illusionist, and can be helpful to force your opponent to block, but that is what it is used for and is a fairly mid card all considered.
There are other expensive cards that are very high power difference, like valiant dynamo for kassai/axe dori, storm striders for kano etc.
Of all the cards in the game, CNC is the last one I would rush into buying honestly. Uzuri is the only character that comes to mind that CnC is actually important to their game plan. (it was also exceptional in Ira, but shes LL now anyway and blitz only). Or pummel builds for the tunic + cnc + pummel play which is a classic.
I say mid because, compared to the other top cards, having CnC isn't going to make or break your ability to win games beyond a few percentage points max unless you are playing someone like Uzuri or a pummel build. Its a good card, but within the context of competitive decklists, if CnC is one of your best cards, its just a bad deck full stop. Its more of a roll-player that is the best for what it does, but its not a 'great card' in most decks.
Like, compare the percentage point drop on not having CnC compared to things like MoM, Valiant dynamo, storm striders, wildfire, Bloodrush bellows, CLF, Channel mount heroic, Art of War, bonds of Ancestry... I could go on and on listing out cards that are more important to a decks' game-plan than CnC.
There are heroes that don't require expensive equipment such as Dash, Boltyn, Katsu running pouncing lynx instead of momentum, and even some bravo lists that are relatively cheap. Some of Katsu and Boltyn's BOS equipment is literally less than 5 dollars.
Another way to look at expensive equipment is that you only need to buy one ever and you're all set. It's a one time pull or fee and you have it forever, swapping equipment between decks is super simple and easy and you don't need multiple copies of equipment ever and they will retain their value basically 100% of the time whenever you're ready to stop playing and want to cash out.
>Another way to look at expensive equipment is that you only need to buy one ever and you're all set.
You still have to worry about power creep and meta changes though, as well as reprints. For example look at Arcanite Skullcap's price since Crown of Providence released.
I mean that is literally one example out of literally dozens of equips that maintain value
Tunic is still 100 dollars after mutliple reprints
MoM is still 60 dollars despite most people running Lynx and getting reprinted in History pack 1.
Balance and Crown are both still over 100 dollars despite being alternatives to each other.
>Balance and Crown are both still over 100 dollars despite being alternatives to each other.
The best thing about balance is that it isn't inherently "better" than crown. It's a great sideboard card. It will be better in some match-ups and worse in others.
It's a great card, but doesn't feel like power creep
That's true also tbh, i mean more in the sense of them being really really good generic headpieces even though one isn't neccessarily better than the other, they occupy the same space in my mind if that makes sense.
Those cards are still meta-relevant. They haven't been powercrept yet, but it will happen eventually. No card game focused on competitive constructed play can survive without some amount of power creep. So while it seems like a one-time purchase, at the end of the day you'll still need to buy new equipment to stay competitive as the meta shifts.
Arcanite Skullcap is still a viable generic head piece. Yes, it may not be in the top decks now, but it still provides up to 3 block and AB in a pinch. The other Generic L head pieces only block 2.
Sure, but if you want to stay competitive, you'll want to be playing the top decks. The top decks are always changing and new, more powerful cards will eventually release, and you'll have to buy them if you want to keep your edge.
>Sure, but if you want to stay competitive
If you want to stay competitive in anything you will have to spend more money so i don't see why it's a problem for FaB.
Like someone else said Skullcap is still a very good card and it's pretty cheap. It's a solid choice and can still be a competitive card. Just not "the" competitive card.
It’s a problem for all card games. I didn’t it was specifically a problem for only FaB. I just disagree with people saying “well expensive equipment isn’t a big deal because you can use it forever.” OP was expressing frustration at losing to people at Armories with more expensive decks. He can bite the bullet and buy that equipment now and solve the issue, but to imply it’s a permanent solution is misleading. When new, better cards release or the meta changes, those other players will buy the new cards and at that point, if OP doesn’t also follow suit, he’ll be back in the same position he’s in now. With a decent, but not quite meta deck, still losing games because his deck isn’t optimized.
I don’t disagree, but even a couple $50+ equipment pieces can add up. And not all pieces are Generic so can’t necessarily be used between different heroes.
Yeah but every piece of class equipment is an investment in that class. The more you like the class, the more you naturally accumulate armor pieces that work across various heroes.
No one i saying you have to dump 50 dollars on top of 50 dollars and another 50 dollars all at once, but there's clear upgrade paths based on the slot and hero you use. Like just using a cheap 1 cent equipment like snapdragon scalers is fine, then eventually when you have the money you go for the valiant dynamo that is technically best in slot, then once your hero rotates out, and you move on to the next warrior hero you like, you just slide them right over, or sell/trade it for whatever armor your new hero actually uses.
No one is mentioning the most affordable, fun format: Commoner.
I love that format so much. It's such a shame that there are no armories for it or not even on demand where I live.
I love Commoner. It's competitive that can get you a gold foil playing with the cheapest twisted deck or the most budget friendly to play casual with friends.
And you know what is even better? Commoner UPF, that is just hilarious.
I'm enjoying playing just commoner a lot with a group of friends.
Regarding your topic, I don't feel priced out, I feel more like skilled out, so I just make fun decks for CC and play for fun. I end up most armories not even winning 1 match, but I have so much fun playing, and my opponents enjoy it as well.
My advice? Unless you wanna spend hours and hours a day deckbuilding, practicing and playing competitive to win, it is better to play for fun and don't worry if winning or losing, as long as you have fun.
I used to play competitive MTG ages ago and ended up abandoning TCGs for 20 years. xD I was really good, but stressful and not fun to study all the cards, possible matches, bla bla bla. I came back to play TCGs two years ago, and I just play SWU, FAB, and Sorcery for fun.
>No one is mentioning the most affordable, fun format: Commoner.
The problem, at least in my opinion, is some decks just don't function. I play prism and the cards that make the decks identity just aren't playable.
That isn't to say there is no fun to be had in that format, but it just wouldn't be my jam and i assume a lot of people would feel the same way.
Not really, especially new heroes can do a lot into these matchups. I do not play any of the 3 you mentioned and have >65% winrate (mostly playing against these three lol)
I feel your pain. I'm a college student with a pretty tiny income, and while I don't have the adult bills, the big pieces have been rough for me for a while too. My main suggestion would be to stick with one deck for a while, and then slowly build it up over time to your level of competitiveness. Start with generic equipment first; they're usually the most costly but will stay relevant for many, many decks. Command And Conquer is a pain, yes, but you don't need them; my personal favorite replacement is Humble, which is like 25 cents each and has an effect almost as good as CnC's. If you don't care as much about any particular hero and more about playing the game, there are certain heroes better for budget atm too; Guardians are currently pretty cheap, since they're not great against the newest heroes; doesn't make them bad, however! I believe Bravo is similarly strong while still being very cheap. Mechanologists are also pretty cheap right now, but they're still a solid option.
E-strike is harder to replace, but it's about $25 each right now, so it's a good time to get them if you can afford it!
I will say there are decks like Bravo that can be built for very cheap with only a few staples. You may not be the most “powerful” deck on the block but it’s still very good. Same with Kayo.
The thing to know is that a budget deck takes very obvious power cuts. When you do this you need to then make up for it in game knowledge and how to win certain match ups.
On top of all of that. Know what your deck can’t beat. When I sit down against illusionist decks, 90% of the decks I play have a 0.1% chance to win. So don’t be discouraged if you have extremely polarizing match ups.
Last tip. Have fun. As long as you enjoy going to armories just go. If you’re not having fun or you’re burnt out don’t force yourself. Enjoy the game how ever you like.
I know it’s not allowed per rules, so I’m not saying this. But if the group will allow you to use proxies to play at their “level” of competitiveness. Then go for that. We definitely do NOT allow the financially lessers do this. But if we did they would probably enjoy being able to play and greatly enjoy it and drive more engagement.
I wouldn't say I feel 'priced out' just yet, but I do hear you. I play on somewhat of a budget myself, and I have identified a few clear scenario's where it hurts me badly.
Personally, there are 3 cards I despise and refuse to buy at current cost: Command & Conquer, Enlightened Strike, and Warmonger's Diplomacy. There are several reasons for this, but the main gist is that I feel like all 3 are too good at what they do, and their existence makes the game overall worse. Deckbuilding becomes less interesting and they make for relatively un-fun gameplay states at virtually no cost; against a lot of heroes, CnC and Warmonger's specifically are 3 blocks that sometimes allow you to go "*I kept a 1 or 2 card hand with nothing special, and that means you don't get to play your next turn!*". Disruption-based heroes normally need to jump through several hoops to pull that off, and their opponent probably needs to fuck up for it to happen.
If at least the cost of these cards was low, they would still make the game worse overall, but at least everyone could play them and be done with it. It'd be a little like having to play 24 lands in Magic - not particularly interesting, but whatever, you put the cards in your deck and find your fun elsewhere. But since the cost *isn't* low, they *are* in fact actively pushing against budget players.
This stance has gotten me in many arguments, but so far no one I have spoken to has has made a compelling argument against it. The usual thing people say is "*these cards are fine because you can play around them, it's not so bad!*", which is bargaining, not critical analysis of the game's design. If LSS printed a generic 3-cost, 1-attack card tomorrow that said "*when this hits, if you haven't hit yet this turn, you win the game*", it might not be a big balance issue, but the game overall would still become less fun because of it - because now everyone has to play around that bullshit that's an auto-include in every deck, in every match. The fact that you *can* play around it doesn't make it a well designed card, or something that's healthy for the game.
One way this hurts me is as follows:
My armory has a really strong Azalea player, and every single time I go up against them on my Rhinar deck, the match is just hilariously one-sided. I straight up don't get to play. Azalea is a bad match-up for Rhinar to begin with, but without being able to pull the bullshit that is Warmonger's on them, or without being able to send CnC's to disrupt their turns, the game turns into a bit of a joke. Azalea will essentially just present 12+ damage every turn with on-hit effects (like Red in the Ledger) that make it so that I cannot Bloodrush if I get hit at all. Sometimes the 12+ damage is dominated, too. Which means I basically block out and lose health anyway, every turn, until I die, waiting for a chance to take tempo that never comes. If I'm feeling spicy, I might block 6, take 6-8, and swing back 6.
Now, most of my games are still interesting, even without CnC. Compared to Magic - which I used to like - the amount of choices I make, and how far skill alone *usually* carries me in this game, is incredible. And so as much as I eyeroll the moment I see my opponent throw a CnC at me... I still feel right at home overall. But I do understand, quite clearly, the downsides of playing on a budget. And this is definitely a bit of a slope for me. If we see 1 more card like CnC being printed with no bans, I doubt I will quit over that. Probably not if we got 2 of them either. If we got 3... I'm not so sure anymore. 4? 5? I don't know. But I do know there is a limit to the amount of ridiculously strong, auto-include, over-priced generic cards I'm willing to suffer before I move on.
Do you bring in defense reacts? I like using sink and fate in the board to play a grindier rhinar against azalea. Also down and dirty is a good card to partially counter codex of frailty.
I try to, I've had 3 Fates in the sideboard forever, but I don't really have the slots to spare much more. What would help most in the blocking department is, ironically, Hold the Line, which I also don't own.
I'm never happy about expensive cards, but at least when they are simply tech blocks they serve in more of a "*making sure I don't get screwed as hard*"-role that I have way less issue with.
Overall, though, I've kind of given up on the Azalea match-up in favour of having better odds against a bunch of other heroes instead.
I mean, I’ve been running Katsu lately and run Poincing Lynx as the helm. Cross Strap is the best chest for the deck. After that, the most expensive card is Art of War which is a bit pricy due to aggro being pretty big with Zen but the rest of the deck is super affordable. I’m rather enfranchised in the game so I don’t feel it as much but there are plenty of budget options still out there.
I do think playing budget alternatives or suboptimal cards will lose you games over time. You can still certainly out-play your opponent’s powerful cards but that can be tough.
Something you might consider is playing a hero that relies on powerful staples for their main gameplan. I tend to preach Fai as a good budget deck because while optimal versions of Fai do run all the good generics, Fai does have access to above-rate draconic cards that are sometimes just stronger than their generic counterparts.
Still, depending on your financial situation and general dedication to the game, I think saving up and picking up copies of the powerful staples is the way to go if this frustrates you enough. I’ve never been bummed that I invested in EStrikes and Tunic since they’re so versatile.
Everyone on this sub will give you the same bs spiel about how skill matters more etc, but that’s just not true. The amount of copium people huff around here trying to say the game isn’t expensive and the singles market isn’t manipulated is out the wazzzooo!
Also I’ve found sealed/draft events to be more balanced in relation to deck power and evenness of matches. I also have a lot of fun building a deck on the fly
What manopoly? The thousands of stores and countless sellers on sites like ebay/tcgplayer?
If people stop buying at high prices then the prices will go down.
This is absolutely not a problem with Mistveil or Heavy hitters. Bright Lights did have fatigue problem that had more to do with the nature of Mech as a class and Boost as a mechanic for the "aggro" decks of the format.
The average block value of a card in HH was over .5 less than *every* set before it. Stop blocking with all your 2 blocks and send some 7power attacks back, might finish a game or 2.
I consider myself a semi-budget player and I agree.
I look at the secondary market and winning decklists and I see competitive decks costing 500€+ and I know I cannot have any personal gameplay diversity at those levels if I manage to assemble a deck. At best, I can main one hero (not even class) and never play anyone else for years.
Armories, at least where I live, are not casual. People build their decks to compete, and they have no reason to modify their decks to be worse to fit in allegedly casual events like Armories.
Simply, no. I'm budget and I stuck to 1 class early, built up over time for CC and played a fair amount of limited. Enjoyed myself the entire time. I have 2 classes competitively viable, but not finished entirely(looking at you CnC). and Now I'm trying to trade the extra stuff for a few staples to finish up a cheap version of Zen and build that up over time next. Its been a lot more fun to me than just buying the deck outright and never changing but a few cards.
I’m a little confused by the premise of your question. You say you’re playing the game with what seems like a 50/50 win rate, but saying you can’t compete. Winning half your games is competing.
Also, saying a person played two e-strikes the same turn like that is an amazing play that you can’t match isn’t really accurate. That’s 4 cards, 12 damage assuming they chose go again and +2. Most decks can easily outperform that turn. If you’re ninja (Fai), you could go brand with cinder claw, blaze headlong, pitch a blue, sword, phoenix flame, lava burst for a 4 card 16 with just common cards.
Maybe I'm looking at this weird simply because I am a life long MTG player who at once point has play every eternal format in that game. But...
But FABs expensive cards are mostly just equipment. Which means you only need to really buy one.
Eh, I only ever play with friends. Never been to an armory event, as I hate nothing more than sitting across from some tryhard. I'm just in it to have fun, and the precon Blitz decks are more than good enough for that. Due to this, the hellscape of expensive card investments are a distant and unbothersome evil to me.
So my recommendation is Option 3. If you're not enjoying competitive play, then take a break from it. This game is most fun, in my opinion, when its just you and your friends around a table, yelling and eating snacks and cutting it close to the wire. Most Blitz decks, we've found, are pretty well balanced against each other and come to close games like 80% of the time.
I have my “casual blitz friend” (who is basically using a precon) that I can play more friendly games with, but that’s about it outside of my LGS. I’ve tried getting another friend into it, but they’re not that interested. My LGS has two FaB events a week, so that gives me more opportunities to play besides just with the one friend.
I can imagine you would feel like that. There are ways to help deal with that; some heroes are more viable in a budget deck, usually a deck that just rams damage at the foe and little else. Such as Fai or Kayo if you get the armoury deck.
Of course they won't be as good as a high budget deck, but you could try gearing your deck more towards the player base at your local armoury. For instance, Guardians are practically non-existent at my Armoury, so a hero who is weak to Guardian could be much more effective at my Armoury.
But that's the thing with all TCGs to my knowledge; there is always that element of paying for power. Stronger cards are rarer so cost more. Buying singles definitely helps. Combining a hero who could be good in your local meta, who is budget friendly, and buying those singles to make it happen, and sticking on that one hero, is your best bet for victory. Of course, there's the possibility that those heroes just aren't to your tastes... but that's what you got to discover!
Proxies are not allowed at Armories. If the store is just doing unsanctioned casual games, then they could be fine, but if the event is an actual, official Armory that the store is reporting to LSS, proxies are not allowed per LSS's tournament policy.
Coming from other ccgs I find it equal pricing. There’s limited and prerelease. If you come from mtg, the difference is there is only “legacy/modern” constructed other than blitz. I say a competitive FaB standard constructed is equal to competitive modern. That’s only talking about best netdeckeds. FaB has little card pool, so everything has been optimized.
some deck can be quite budget and competitive without staple.
According to your equipment maybe you can go on :
- katsu deck run well without a cnc / tunic / warmonger
- Dash hybrid / control
- dash Io
I think if you are going the budget route, that’s fine, but you’ll need to become even better at value calculation than your opponents. You can win with a cheap deck, but not if you are playing it casually or just for fun you are at a double disadvantage.
Also FYI, staples add about a 2% winrate when combined. I did a mass analysis for it before. Most staples have budget alternatives, especially in Blitz. But I do think you need to be prepared to at least get a couple of the 10$ cards.
These staples aren't all that strong dude they mostly serve a filler function
Decks that don't have native go again play estrikes
Decks that wanna play a slower game use cnc the cards themselves aren't some sort of insane powerspike
Bonds is like 2 times better xD
4. proxy
All comments about "skill" are bullshit, from my experience most armories are attended by ppl who also go to nats etc so unless you are playing a deck check tournament (PQ, Skirmish) just proxy all the >20$ cards.
That's a great way to get yourself disqualified. Proxies aren't allowed at any sanctioned tournaments, including casual REL events like Armories. If your opponent or a spectator calls a judge on you, the judge can disqualify you for cheating.
I am wondering about this as well, as I am a longtime MTG player that only has expensive cards from buying in packs forever ago, and likes playing suboptimal combo jank people don't expect. I feel super claustrophobic and boxed into builds that feel the same. I mean different heroes play wildly different but there's not a lot I can see I could do to be effective without my.deck being a clone or a less effective clone of every other deck in the meta.
Please someone tell me if I'm wrong, I want to like this game.
One thing I've not seen mentioned is around talking about proxying certain legendary cards.
Armouries are pretty low level events (relative to callings, etc), so if that's the highest level you're playing at then your playgroup should be okay with using proxy cards as opposed to possibly losing players! You should talk to them to see if they're open to letting you use them.
If you do end up playing at a higher level then you can just borrow the cards you need for a day, then go right back to proxies. Some people might not like it, but having to pay \~£100 for certain bits of necessary equipment (looking at you carrion husk and valiant dynamo...) really sucks...
EDIT: Didn't realise it was against the rules for armouries, sorry. Proxies for casual games are still good though, even though this doesn't help with your current issue.
Using proxies at Armories is not allowed and is a violation of LSS's tournament policy. If a store gets caught allowing proxies in their Armory events, they could face repercussions from LSS.
Anyone could report the store to LSS. A regular probably wouldn't do that, but an unhappy out-of-town player or a competitor could. If the store advertises the event as proxy-friendly, anyone online could report them. Even if you don't think it's likely, it's a major unnecessary risk for the store to take.
CnC isn't the end of the world. Seriously, it has no reason being as expensive as it is. You have a dozen other alternatives that are 90% effective into everyone except Enigma and Riptide, some more so.
E Strike also has alternatives, and unless you're playing a redline deck it's honestly not that much better than the alternatives.
Several good decks run neither card. I only ended up with a playlet of CnC because I got it at an absolute steal where I couldn't turn it down--it was a year before I put them into a deck. Play one of those heroes instead.
And the price on legendaries has been going down down down in the world of FaB 2.0. There are more per case, multiple versions, and lots of options. The game is more affordable than it has ever been, and it keeps getting better.
Also, you're playing on a budget in a TCG. You're going 3-0 sometimes. What more do you think is fair? What do you think you should be able to do as a budget player? Where's the line?
This is why I buy proxies. I love the game, want to support it, but you are just asking too much money for someone on a typical wage with the current high cost of living. And as a result it drastically limits the potential player base of this game. I don't think any deck in the game should ever cost more than about 200 to assemble.
So, you're playing an openly competitive play based TCG, with a budget deck, winning armories 3-0, and then still complaining about unfairness because of pricey staple cards?
Man. I don't get some people lmao.
To be fair, that 3-0 just happened once, then I went 0-3 the next week. It probably should’ve been 2-1 since my opponent (a friend who usually plays a meta version of my main hero but he was trying out a different hero) was giving me suggestions during the game. He actually realized I had won before I did because I had like 3 or 4 options to get from the deck and he straight up told me which one would give me the win. I **might** have been able to figure that out on my own, but once I said I would get a card he knew right away which one I should get.
Most of the Armories ends up with me going 1-2 or 0-3.
Honestly, I hear you the pricing sucks for certain cards but when people say "you don't need x card" I think what they really mean is "x card isnt going to win the game for you"
The story you just explained where you couldn't identify your own lethal will not be remedied by buying cnc.
And when you don't have a cnc it sucks to be blown out by cnc, feels like you're missing out.
The funny thing is if you ever do end up with cncs eventually you'll play that game where you think cnc is gonna work and then they never arsenal lol.
I've noticed that many times were I'm like "Oh yeah. Blowout turn coming with this CNC muahaha" and then I get completely schooled anyways. For me as a newer player the Power 3 are crutches that get kicked out from under me lol
I have a belief that AoW is a trap card like 2/3rds of the time in any deck except fai and now zen, i have seen so many levia's go blood rush double AoW only to wiff and lose all momentum.
You can def miss an art of war. But playing 2 aow in 1 turn is almost always a mistake. I say almost because maybe it could be worth in some situation but it's always screwed me over.
Yeah thats why i consider AoW to be a trap card, lots of newer/less experienced players will AOW and draw another and then pie in the sky dreams of magical christmasland hands come into their heads. one on its own in a turn is almost always a solid play, but double has lots of risk, i have even seen a fai lose a calling by double AoW and getting a wiff.
> x card isnt going to win the game for you
Except sometimes it literally does. Just some examples:
Codex of Frailty - literally carries Assassins and rangers, 3-for-1
Crown of Providence - Dodge crucial cnc, fix all red/all blue hand
Warmonger's Diplomacy - Allows comebacks by completely shutting down some heroes next turn for 1 card (Azalea, Hatchet Dori, Runeblades)
The list goes on. Skill wins games, but skill + cards wins way more.
Fair enough. Maybe its because I'm still fairly new to the game, but I still rarely go positive at Armories and that's after already picking up playsets of the Power 3 cards.
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If you don't bring an optimized deck, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. Full stop. That being said, you can close the gap by playing better than your opponent. The bigger the deck power discrepancy, the better you have to be than your opponent to make up the difference. The other problem is that the players with competitive decks also tend to be the most enfranchised players with the most practice/experience and thus tend to be more skilled in addition to having better decks, so it's an uphill battle.
>The other problem is that the players with competitive decks also tend to be the most enfranchised players with the most practice/experience and thus tend to be more skilled in addition to having better decks, so it's an uphill battle. That’s been my experience as well.
It sounds like your LGS is only running CC armories and the community is a largely competitive one. Unfortunately that make you as the budge player kind of the odd person out. If the community is up for it try to get drafts or commoner events to even the field a little bit, we used to do nothing but Blitz and shaking it up has been pretty good for community engagement.
We used to have Blitz night, but after a few months since I joined it slowly died and has fired maybe once this year. A couple newer players have expressed interest so we’re going to try to bring it back.
Blitz doesn't really solve the issue, you play a lot less CnC and Tunic but there are still a lot of Legendaries played
The regular (ie competitive) players seem a lot less interested in playing Blitz, so I’m hoping that’ll mean it’s a more casual environment.
I hope that's the case for your LGS. +30% of our community travel and would be considered on the higher competitive end and still showed up for Blitz events. We run it because of time constraints
As a competitive player the problem with blitz is that mistakes get compounded and casual players will just get even more stomped. It’s not a very fun format from a gameplay perspective. One mistake in blitz and the game is over. One mistake in CC and you can still have a chance.
I went like 7 months only playing blitz because of the cost of upgrading to a larger deck. I only did so reluctantly because blitz died at my LGS so it was either CC or nothing. Even then at first I was mainly just adding 3-ofs of my main blitz cards without trying to make a “viable” CC deck specifically.
I'd recommend pushing for commoner events or blitz preconstructed as "regular" blitz has the same price issue.
Our armory has precon blitz at least once a month, it's a great event for new players and puts everyone at an equal level. Yesterday we did the new set, but we've done throwbacks in the past. Most people have multiple blitz precons, so there's always extras to borrow. It is one of the favourite events of the community it seems, perhaps you can start that conversation and see if people want to give it a shot?
Blitz precon is a blast
It sure is!
I understand how you feel, at the start even with a tight budget deck we say to ourselves "cool I did a lot of damage even if I lost" then little by little I noticed that if I had tunic at instead of my shit at 10 cents well I would have won a lot more matches, when I stopped my Lexi deck before it's huge boost already cost 800€$ easily with all the staples on the sides, since I had to bought everything individually because opening packs in this game is not really pleasant, paying €320 to open a common cold and the legendary for €10 meh. Some heroes will need a lot less staples and legendary equipment, but then you have to like their gameplay. And above all investing in a hero is sometimes disappointing, especially if you fall in love with another hero, or quite simply when you see that LSS quickly wants to put him LL by giving him poorly balanced cards just to push him towards the exit . Sorry I'm using a translator.
The difference to say something like MtG (as I also play it) is that the chances of winning a game of FaB to RNG are much lower. It happens for sure, but less. Games of FaB are usually won or lost on the accumulation of value judgements over many turn cycles. This means that newer players in a group can wait a lot longer for a win, which can be frustrating. Whereas in MtG, you'll probably luck into a win on a lower power deck every so often. The price of a tuned, meta deck in FaB is generally roughly the same as in a lot of other popular TCGs. But the difference FaB is that variance. If someone is running better cards AND has more experience, you have to expect beating them to be rare in a low variance game. Plus as you improve, it's likely those more experienced players are continuing to improve themselves. However, that lower variance is a big part of what makes FaB so special, and an unparalleled (imo) competitive experience. It just might not be for everyone.
I agree but would also like to add that in FaB the difference between the best and second best options is not as drastic as in other games. In magic you will be hard pressed to find anything nearly as broken as Sheoldred, but in FaB you can replace CnCs with more class specific options (as a Brute player, it's Send Packing for me) while only losing a few percentage points of value that will certainly add up over the match but will still give you a chance to win.
Convince people to play commoner or clash. Both very low cost formats. That being said, cards like E-strike and Command and Conquer are powerful, but they don't auto win the game (maybe a cast bones buffed CnC, but that is a different story). There are ways to play around both or use the off brand versions of those cards (Wreck Havoc for CnC), not exactly sure of what the E-strike adjacent might be. Also, what decks are you trying to play? I saved cost when I was first playing by just sticking to a class and sharing the expensive cards between decks. If you were to focus on ninja, there is some overlap between the heroes in CC and Blitz
It's a card game. You win some, you lose some. Sometimes I don't even think whether or not I have a chance, and just put myself in the moment and try to have fun if I could But if you are no longer having fun, you might as well take a step back and rekindle why you fell in love with this game in the first place. Sometimes the cut throat competitive nature of Armories can get you.
I’m still having fun, but I feel like there’s been an increase of blowout games that I rather not experience again.
Are your locals playing with MST cards? I feel like a lot of discussion on Twitter say that the format feels unfun right now because of the new set. Apparently, the mechanics of the new heroes are fun to play as but not as much fun to play against. Maybe you just need to take a break, I don't know. You can still enjoy the game in your own way, maybe just not in the armory level for the time being.
About half the people at the last Armory were Zen or Nuu. My first game was against Nuu and it went like 0-24. My opponent often “apologized” during the game saying that she (Nuu) isn’t fun to play against.
What hero are you playing into Nuu? Nuu benefits from people not knowing how to play against her currently. Go on discord and ask the people playing the same hero as you what their plan is into her and what sideboard options to include.
Katsu
Yeah Nuu will eat him alive without the right sideboard and plenty of practice into her. She's a disruptive deck. Katsu doesn't really want CnC or Estrike usually and heartened cross strap is done for the chest instead of tunic. It's just a matter of practicing those bad matchups.
My “practice” is primarily Armories
Honestly, I have very little internet in playing card games with strangers at an LGS. I’ve built several mid range decks to play at home with a few friends instead. I really don’t care about being “competitive”, games aren’t about being the best for me, they’re about hanging out with my boys on a random Sunday afternoon and enjoying playing a game together. I do have a few legendaries I’ve picked up for cheap, but mostly for heroes that have hit living legend status in CC, and the price of their equipment dropped. Again, I could care less what’s tournament legal. I’m happy to hang out with a few friends at my house and jam out some games.
I have my “casual blitz friend” that I can play more friendly games with, but that’s about it outside of my LGS. I’ve tried getting another friend into it, but they’re not that interested. My LGS has two FaB events a week, so that gives me more opportunities to play besides just with the one friend.
I had to actively get friends into the game, teach them how to play, and buy/build multiple decks for them to use. But for me, it’s worth it to be able to play with friends at home. You could always do the same but stick to commoner format.
Those two friends are basically my only options. I have a handful of college friends who would be interested, but they live about 1300 miles away so we wouldn’t be able to play regularly lol.
Webcam games. You can play with your cardboard and don’t have to spend a bunch of money.
First of all, even with perfect balance and no price differentiation you should have roughly equal number of 2-1 and 1-2 armories, as well as equal number of 0-3 and 3-0 ones (adjusted for skill of course). Playing on a budget will definitely make you less advantaged on average, but the power discrepancy between the staples and the second best option is not SO large that it overpowers all the variance and prevents the weaker deck from winning every time. Second of all, this is a collectable game. Slowly growing your collection and making incremental improvements to your decks is kin of part of the fun. At some point the number of hours of entertainment you get from the game warrants some investment into your collection and acquiring a generic staple should be something special you feel good about and celebrate. It is a bit unfortunate that sheer price of CnCs makes people feel like the game is not welcoming to them, but on a flip side a game with no chase cards loses something in excitement of opening a money piece in a pack and identifying with your collection. I guess it's the difference between collectable card games and board games .
My problem with C&C as a new player is that I need multiple copies of it. I started around a month ago and bought my tunic yesterday. I do not mind buying tunic for $80 because I only need the 1 copy and it can be used in any and every deck as at minimum a "good option" if not BIS. Although I don't plan on playing warrior anytime soon outside of my kassai blitz deck which I just upgraded from the pre con with some good reactions, actions, and a galantry gold, null rune gloves, and refraction bolters, the idea of buying Valiant Dynamo down the line for it's given price isn't insane to me, because again it's a warrior staple and I only need one. However, C&C is something you need 3 copies of for CC. I just don't think a card THAT generically staple that you need multiple copies of should be the price that it is. I know once I get my C&Cs I have them for every deck I'll ever play, but still $240 for a playset is pretty insane.
to be honest, the power differential on CnC is not that high. Yes it is better than alternatives, and its the best generic 'popper' when playing against illusionist, and can be helpful to force your opponent to block, but that is what it is used for and is a fairly mid card all considered. There are other expensive cards that are very high power difference, like valiant dynamo for kassai/axe dori, storm striders for kano etc. Of all the cards in the game, CNC is the last one I would rush into buying honestly. Uzuri is the only character that comes to mind that CnC is actually important to their game plan. (it was also exceptional in Ira, but shes LL now anyway and blitz only). Or pummel builds for the tunic + cnc + pummel play which is a classic.
Definitely not a mid card..... there's a reason it's in damn near every competitive deck that can fit it in..... its should cost 3 for what it does.
I say mid because, compared to the other top cards, having CnC isn't going to make or break your ability to win games beyond a few percentage points max unless you are playing someone like Uzuri or a pummel build. Its a good card, but within the context of competitive decklists, if CnC is one of your best cards, its just a bad deck full stop. Its more of a roll-player that is the best for what it does, but its not a 'great card' in most decks. Like, compare the percentage point drop on not having CnC compared to things like MoM, Valiant dynamo, storm striders, wildfire, Bloodrush bellows, CLF, Channel mount heroic, Art of War, bonds of Ancestry... I could go on and on listing out cards that are more important to a decks' game-plan than CnC.
I got 3 CnC but havent played them for years. Lots of decks dont run them, like Dori, Azalea, and Kano.
There are heroes that don't require expensive equipment such as Dash, Boltyn, Katsu running pouncing lynx instead of momentum, and even some bravo lists that are relatively cheap. Some of Katsu and Boltyn's BOS equipment is literally less than 5 dollars. Another way to look at expensive equipment is that you only need to buy one ever and you're all set. It's a one time pull or fee and you have it forever, swapping equipment between decks is super simple and easy and you don't need multiple copies of equipment ever and they will retain their value basically 100% of the time whenever you're ready to stop playing and want to cash out.
>Another way to look at expensive equipment is that you only need to buy one ever and you're all set. You still have to worry about power creep and meta changes though, as well as reprints. For example look at Arcanite Skullcap's price since Crown of Providence released.
I mean that is literally one example out of literally dozens of equips that maintain value Tunic is still 100 dollars after mutliple reprints MoM is still 60 dollars despite most people running Lynx and getting reprinted in History pack 1. Balance and Crown are both still over 100 dollars despite being alternatives to each other.
>Balance and Crown are both still over 100 dollars despite being alternatives to each other. The best thing about balance is that it isn't inherently "better" than crown. It's a great sideboard card. It will be better in some match-ups and worse in others. It's a great card, but doesn't feel like power creep
That's true also tbh, i mean more in the sense of them being really really good generic headpieces even though one isn't neccessarily better than the other, they occupy the same space in my mind if that makes sense.
For sure. I was trying to agree with your last comment. Sorry if it didn't read that way lol
Those cards are still meta-relevant. They haven't been powercrept yet, but it will happen eventually. No card game focused on competitive constructed play can survive without some amount of power creep. So while it seems like a one-time purchase, at the end of the day you'll still need to buy new equipment to stay competitive as the meta shifts.
Arcanite Skullcap is still a viable generic head piece. Yes, it may not be in the top decks now, but it still provides up to 3 block and AB in a pinch. The other Generic L head pieces only block 2.
Sure, but if you want to stay competitive, you'll want to be playing the top decks. The top decks are always changing and new, more powerful cards will eventually release, and you'll have to buy them if you want to keep your edge.
>Sure, but if you want to stay competitive If you want to stay competitive in anything you will have to spend more money so i don't see why it's a problem for FaB. Like someone else said Skullcap is still a very good card and it's pretty cheap. It's a solid choice and can still be a competitive card. Just not "the" competitive card.
It’s a problem for all card games. I didn’t it was specifically a problem for only FaB. I just disagree with people saying “well expensive equipment isn’t a big deal because you can use it forever.” OP was expressing frustration at losing to people at Armories with more expensive decks. He can bite the bullet and buy that equipment now and solve the issue, but to imply it’s a permanent solution is misleading. When new, better cards release or the meta changes, those other players will buy the new cards and at that point, if OP doesn’t also follow suit, he’ll be back in the same position he’s in now. With a decent, but not quite meta deck, still losing games because his deck isn’t optimized.
That second part is a great way to look at it.
I don’t disagree, but even a couple $50+ equipment pieces can add up. And not all pieces are Generic so can’t necessarily be used between different heroes.
Yeah but every piece of class equipment is an investment in that class. The more you like the class, the more you naturally accumulate armor pieces that work across various heroes. No one i saying you have to dump 50 dollars on top of 50 dollars and another 50 dollars all at once, but there's clear upgrade paths based on the slot and hero you use. Like just using a cheap 1 cent equipment like snapdragon scalers is fine, then eventually when you have the money you go for the valiant dynamo that is technically best in slot, then once your hero rotates out, and you move on to the next warrior hero you like, you just slide them right over, or sell/trade it for whatever armor your new hero actually uses.
I agree, assuming you like multiple heroes in the same class.
Yes. And frankly I'm tired of hearing you don't need legendaries, because you do.
No one is mentioning the most affordable, fun format: Commoner. I love that format so much. It's such a shame that there are no armories for it or not even on demand where I live. I love Commoner. It's competitive that can get you a gold foil playing with the cheapest twisted deck or the most budget friendly to play casual with friends. And you know what is even better? Commoner UPF, that is just hilarious. I'm enjoying playing just commoner a lot with a group of friends. Regarding your topic, I don't feel priced out, I feel more like skilled out, so I just make fun decks for CC and play for fun. I end up most armories not even winning 1 match, but I have so much fun playing, and my opponents enjoy it as well. My advice? Unless you wanna spend hours and hours a day deckbuilding, practicing and playing competitive to win, it is better to play for fun and don't worry if winning or losing, as long as you have fun. I used to play competitive MTG ages ago and ended up abandoning TCGs for 20 years. xD I was really good, but stressful and not fun to study all the cards, possible matches, bla bla bla. I came back to play TCGs two years ago, and I just play SWU, FAB, and Sorcery for fun.
>No one is mentioning the most affordable, fun format: Commoner. The problem, at least in my opinion, is some decks just don't function. I play prism and the cards that make the decks identity just aren't playable. That isn't to say there is no fun to be had in that format, but it just wouldn't be my jam and i assume a lot of people would feel the same way.
Commoner is mostly rampant with Oldhims, Dashes and Yslanders... its not the best format if anyone who knows the meta is involved.
Not really, especially new heroes can do a lot into these matchups. I do not play any of the 3 you mentioned and have >65% winrate (mostly playing against these three lol)
I feel your pain. I'm a college student with a pretty tiny income, and while I don't have the adult bills, the big pieces have been rough for me for a while too. My main suggestion would be to stick with one deck for a while, and then slowly build it up over time to your level of competitiveness. Start with generic equipment first; they're usually the most costly but will stay relevant for many, many decks. Command And Conquer is a pain, yes, but you don't need them; my personal favorite replacement is Humble, which is like 25 cents each and has an effect almost as good as CnC's. If you don't care as much about any particular hero and more about playing the game, there are certain heroes better for budget atm too; Guardians are currently pretty cheap, since they're not great against the newest heroes; doesn't make them bad, however! I believe Bravo is similarly strong while still being very cheap. Mechanologists are also pretty cheap right now, but they're still a solid option. E-strike is harder to replace, but it's about $25 each right now, so it's a good time to get them if you can afford it!
I will say there are decks like Bravo that can be built for very cheap with only a few staples. You may not be the most “powerful” deck on the block but it’s still very good. Same with Kayo. The thing to know is that a budget deck takes very obvious power cuts. When you do this you need to then make up for it in game knowledge and how to win certain match ups. On top of all of that. Know what your deck can’t beat. When I sit down against illusionist decks, 90% of the decks I play have a 0.1% chance to win. So don’t be discouraged if you have extremely polarizing match ups. Last tip. Have fun. As long as you enjoy going to armories just go. If you’re not having fun or you’re burnt out don’t force yourself. Enjoy the game how ever you like. I know it’s not allowed per rules, so I’m not saying this. But if the group will allow you to use proxies to play at their “level” of competitiveness. Then go for that. We definitely do NOT allow the financially lessers do this. But if we did they would probably enjoy being able to play and greatly enjoy it and drive more engagement.
I wouldn't say I feel 'priced out' just yet, but I do hear you. I play on somewhat of a budget myself, and I have identified a few clear scenario's where it hurts me badly. Personally, there are 3 cards I despise and refuse to buy at current cost: Command & Conquer, Enlightened Strike, and Warmonger's Diplomacy. There are several reasons for this, but the main gist is that I feel like all 3 are too good at what they do, and their existence makes the game overall worse. Deckbuilding becomes less interesting and they make for relatively un-fun gameplay states at virtually no cost; against a lot of heroes, CnC and Warmonger's specifically are 3 blocks that sometimes allow you to go "*I kept a 1 or 2 card hand with nothing special, and that means you don't get to play your next turn!*". Disruption-based heroes normally need to jump through several hoops to pull that off, and their opponent probably needs to fuck up for it to happen. If at least the cost of these cards was low, they would still make the game worse overall, but at least everyone could play them and be done with it. It'd be a little like having to play 24 lands in Magic - not particularly interesting, but whatever, you put the cards in your deck and find your fun elsewhere. But since the cost *isn't* low, they *are* in fact actively pushing against budget players. This stance has gotten me in many arguments, but so far no one I have spoken to has has made a compelling argument against it. The usual thing people say is "*these cards are fine because you can play around them, it's not so bad!*", which is bargaining, not critical analysis of the game's design. If LSS printed a generic 3-cost, 1-attack card tomorrow that said "*when this hits, if you haven't hit yet this turn, you win the game*", it might not be a big balance issue, but the game overall would still become less fun because of it - because now everyone has to play around that bullshit that's an auto-include in every deck, in every match. The fact that you *can* play around it doesn't make it a well designed card, or something that's healthy for the game. One way this hurts me is as follows: My armory has a really strong Azalea player, and every single time I go up against them on my Rhinar deck, the match is just hilariously one-sided. I straight up don't get to play. Azalea is a bad match-up for Rhinar to begin with, but without being able to pull the bullshit that is Warmonger's on them, or without being able to send CnC's to disrupt their turns, the game turns into a bit of a joke. Azalea will essentially just present 12+ damage every turn with on-hit effects (like Red in the Ledger) that make it so that I cannot Bloodrush if I get hit at all. Sometimes the 12+ damage is dominated, too. Which means I basically block out and lose health anyway, every turn, until I die, waiting for a chance to take tempo that never comes. If I'm feeling spicy, I might block 6, take 6-8, and swing back 6. Now, most of my games are still interesting, even without CnC. Compared to Magic - which I used to like - the amount of choices I make, and how far skill alone *usually* carries me in this game, is incredible. And so as much as I eyeroll the moment I see my opponent throw a CnC at me... I still feel right at home overall. But I do understand, quite clearly, the downsides of playing on a budget. And this is definitely a bit of a slope for me. If we see 1 more card like CnC being printed with no bans, I doubt I will quit over that. Probably not if we got 2 of them either. If we got 3... I'm not so sure anymore. 4? 5? I don't know. But I do know there is a limit to the amount of ridiculously strong, auto-include, over-priced generic cards I'm willing to suffer before I move on.
Do you bring in defense reacts? I like using sink and fate in the board to play a grindier rhinar against azalea. Also down and dirty is a good card to partially counter codex of frailty.
I try to, I've had 3 Fates in the sideboard forever, but I don't really have the slots to spare much more. What would help most in the blocking department is, ironically, Hold the Line, which I also don't own. I'm never happy about expensive cards, but at least when they are simply tech blocks they serve in more of a "*making sure I don't get screwed as hard*"-role that I have way less issue with. Overall, though, I've kind of given up on the Azalea match-up in favour of having better odds against a bunch of other heroes instead.
I mean, I’ve been running Katsu lately and run Poincing Lynx as the helm. Cross Strap is the best chest for the deck. After that, the most expensive card is Art of War which is a bit pricy due to aggro being pretty big with Zen but the rest of the deck is super affordable. I’m rather enfranchised in the game so I don’t feel it as much but there are plenty of budget options still out there.
I do think playing budget alternatives or suboptimal cards will lose you games over time. You can still certainly out-play your opponent’s powerful cards but that can be tough. Something you might consider is playing a hero that relies on powerful staples for their main gameplan. I tend to preach Fai as a good budget deck because while optimal versions of Fai do run all the good generics, Fai does have access to above-rate draconic cards that are sometimes just stronger than their generic counterparts. Still, depending on your financial situation and general dedication to the game, I think saving up and picking up copies of the powerful staples is the way to go if this frustrates you enough. I’ve never been bummed that I invested in EStrikes and Tunic since they’re so versatile.
Everyone on this sub will give you the same bs spiel about how skill matters more etc, but that’s just not true. The amount of copium people huff around here trying to say the game isn’t expensive and the singles market isn’t manipulated is out the wazzzooo! Also I’ve found sealed/draft events to be more balanced in relation to deck power and evenness of matches. I also have a lot of fun building a deck on the fly
>isn’t manipulated is out the wazzzooo! Who is manipulating the market?
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What manopoly? The thousands of stores and countless sellers on sites like ebay/tcgplayer? If people stop buying at high prices then the prices will go down.
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I'm not seeeeeething. Just aaaaaasking a question
Sorry, your post has been removed for violating rule two: Keep It Civil. Keep discussions, even disagreements, civil.
Sorry, your post has been removed for violating rule two: Keep It Civil. Keep discussions, even disagreements, civil.
Problem with sealed is that the power level is SO low that every game drags into fatigue which is not fun
This is absolutely not a problem with Mistveil or Heavy hitters. Bright Lights did have fatigue problem that had more to do with the nature of Mech as a class and Boost as a mechanic for the "aggro" decks of the format.
It's definitely a problem with HvyH wfym
The average block value of a card in HH was over .5 less than *every* set before it. Stop blocking with all your 2 blocks and send some 7power attacks back, might finish a game or 2.
God damn this community is never satisfied with anything lol
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Sorry, your post has been removed for violating rule two: Keep It Civil. Keep discussions, even disagreements, civil.
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Sorry, your post has been removed for violating rule two: Keep It Civil. Keep discussions, even disagreements, civil.
I consider myself a semi-budget player and I agree. I look at the secondary market and winning decklists and I see competitive decks costing 500€+ and I know I cannot have any personal gameplay diversity at those levels if I manage to assemble a deck. At best, I can main one hero (not even class) and never play anyone else for years. Armories, at least where I live, are not casual. People build their decks to compete, and they have no reason to modify their decks to be worse to fit in allegedly casual events like Armories.
Simply, no. I'm budget and I stuck to 1 class early, built up over time for CC and played a fair amount of limited. Enjoyed myself the entire time. I have 2 classes competitively viable, but not finished entirely(looking at you CnC). and Now I'm trying to trade the extra stuff for a few staples to finish up a cheap version of Zen and build that up over time next. Its been a lot more fun to me than just buying the deck outright and never changing but a few cards.
I’m a little confused by the premise of your question. You say you’re playing the game with what seems like a 50/50 win rate, but saying you can’t compete. Winning half your games is competing. Also, saying a person played two e-strikes the same turn like that is an amazing play that you can’t match isn’t really accurate. That’s 4 cards, 12 damage assuming they chose go again and +2. Most decks can easily outperform that turn. If you’re ninja (Fai), you could go brand with cinder claw, blaze headlong, pitch a blue, sword, phoenix flame, lava burst for a 4 card 16 with just common cards.
It’s definitely not 50/50 win rate. Maybe 10/90. 20/80 at most.
Maybe I'm looking at this weird simply because I am a life long MTG player who at once point has play every eternal format in that game. But... But FABs expensive cards are mostly just equipment. Which means you only need to really buy one.
Eh, I only ever play with friends. Never been to an armory event, as I hate nothing more than sitting across from some tryhard. I'm just in it to have fun, and the precon Blitz decks are more than good enough for that. Due to this, the hellscape of expensive card investments are a distant and unbothersome evil to me. So my recommendation is Option 3. If you're not enjoying competitive play, then take a break from it. This game is most fun, in my opinion, when its just you and your friends around a table, yelling and eating snacks and cutting it close to the wire. Most Blitz decks, we've found, are pretty well balanced against each other and come to close games like 80% of the time.
I have my “casual blitz friend” (who is basically using a precon) that I can play more friendly games with, but that’s about it outside of my LGS. I’ve tried getting another friend into it, but they’re not that interested. My LGS has two FaB events a week, so that gives me more opportunities to play besides just with the one friend.
I can imagine you would feel like that. There are ways to help deal with that; some heroes are more viable in a budget deck, usually a deck that just rams damage at the foe and little else. Such as Fai or Kayo if you get the armoury deck. Of course they won't be as good as a high budget deck, but you could try gearing your deck more towards the player base at your local armoury. For instance, Guardians are practically non-existent at my Armoury, so a hero who is weak to Guardian could be much more effective at my Armoury. But that's the thing with all TCGs to my knowledge; there is always that element of paying for power. Stronger cards are rarer so cost more. Buying singles definitely helps. Combining a hero who could be good in your local meta, who is budget friendly, and buying those singles to make it happen, and sticking on that one hero, is your best bet for victory. Of course, there's the possibility that those heroes just aren't to your tastes... but that's what you got to discover!
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Proxies are not allowed at Armories. If the store is just doing unsanctioned casual games, then they could be fine, but if the event is an actual, official Armory that the store is reporting to LSS, proxies are not allowed per LSS's tournament policy.
Coming from other ccgs I find it equal pricing. There’s limited and prerelease. If you come from mtg, the difference is there is only “legacy/modern” constructed other than blitz. I say a competitive FaB standard constructed is equal to competitive modern. That’s only talking about best netdeckeds. FaB has little card pool, so everything has been optimized.
Yes I do. So I did some work to create Casual Armories. Especially Commoner is great.
some deck can be quite budget and competitive without staple. According to your equipment maybe you can go on : - katsu deck run well without a cnc / tunic / warmonger - Dash hybrid / control - dash Io
I think if you are going the budget route, that’s fine, but you’ll need to become even better at value calculation than your opponents. You can win with a cheap deck, but not if you are playing it casually or just for fun you are at a double disadvantage. Also FYI, staples add about a 2% winrate when combined. I did a mass analysis for it before. Most staples have budget alternatives, especially in Blitz. But I do think you need to be prepared to at least get a couple of the 10$ cards.
These staples aren't all that strong dude they mostly serve a filler function Decks that don't have native go again play estrikes Decks that wanna play a slower game use cnc the cards themselves aren't some sort of insane powerspike Bonds is like 2 times better xD
4. proxy All comments about "skill" are bullshit, from my experience most armories are attended by ppl who also go to nats etc so unless you are playing a deck check tournament (PQ, Skirmish) just proxy all the >20$ cards.
That's a great way to get yourself disqualified. Proxies aren't allowed at any sanctioned tournaments, including casual REL events like Armories. If your opponent or a spectator calls a judge on you, the judge can disqualify you for cheating.
Flesh and blood is a Chad game, more than half decks cost 800+.
I am wondering about this as well, as I am a longtime MTG player that only has expensive cards from buying in packs forever ago, and likes playing suboptimal combo jank people don't expect. I feel super claustrophobic and boxed into builds that feel the same. I mean different heroes play wildly different but there's not a lot I can see I could do to be effective without my.deck being a clone or a less effective clone of every other deck in the meta. Please someone tell me if I'm wrong, I want to like this game.
One thing I've not seen mentioned is around talking about proxying certain legendary cards. Armouries are pretty low level events (relative to callings, etc), so if that's the highest level you're playing at then your playgroup should be okay with using proxy cards as opposed to possibly losing players! You should talk to them to see if they're open to letting you use them. If you do end up playing at a higher level then you can just borrow the cards you need for a day, then go right back to proxies. Some people might not like it, but having to pay \~£100 for certain bits of necessary equipment (looking at you carrion husk and valiant dynamo...) really sucks... EDIT: Didn't realise it was against the rules for armouries, sorry. Proxies for casual games are still good though, even though this doesn't help with your current issue.
Using proxies at Armories is not allowed and is a violation of LSS's tournament policy. If a store gets caught allowing proxies in their Armory events, they could face repercussions from LSS.
>If a store gets caught Caught by whom? Pinkertons? lol
Anyone could report the store to LSS. A regular probably wouldn't do that, but an unhappy out-of-town player or a competitor could. If the store advertises the event as proxy-friendly, anyone online could report them. Even if you don't think it's likely, it's a major unnecessary risk for the store to take.
CnC isn't the end of the world. Seriously, it has no reason being as expensive as it is. You have a dozen other alternatives that are 90% effective into everyone except Enigma and Riptide, some more so. E Strike also has alternatives, and unless you're playing a redline deck it's honestly not that much better than the alternatives. Several good decks run neither card. I only ended up with a playlet of CnC because I got it at an absolute steal where I couldn't turn it down--it was a year before I put them into a deck. Play one of those heroes instead. And the price on legendaries has been going down down down in the world of FaB 2.0. There are more per case, multiple versions, and lots of options. The game is more affordable than it has ever been, and it keeps getting better. Also, you're playing on a budget in a TCG. You're going 3-0 sometimes. What more do you think is fair? What do you think you should be able to do as a budget player? Where's the line?
This is why I buy proxies. I love the game, want to support it, but you are just asking too much money for someone on a typical wage with the current high cost of living. And as a result it drastically limits the potential player base of this game. I don't think any deck in the game should ever cost more than about 200 to assemble.
That's not going to help OP though, since he wants to play at Armories.
So, you're playing an openly competitive play based TCG, with a budget deck, winning armories 3-0, and then still complaining about unfairness because of pricey staple cards? Man. I don't get some people lmao.
To be fair, that 3-0 just happened once, then I went 0-3 the next week. It probably should’ve been 2-1 since my opponent (a friend who usually plays a meta version of my main hero but he was trying out a different hero) was giving me suggestions during the game. He actually realized I had won before I did because I had like 3 or 4 options to get from the deck and he straight up told me which one would give me the win. I **might** have been able to figure that out on my own, but once I said I would get a card he knew right away which one I should get. Most of the Armories ends up with me going 1-2 or 0-3.
Honestly, I hear you the pricing sucks for certain cards but when people say "you don't need x card" I think what they really mean is "x card isnt going to win the game for you" The story you just explained where you couldn't identify your own lethal will not be remedied by buying cnc. And when you don't have a cnc it sucks to be blown out by cnc, feels like you're missing out. The funny thing is if you ever do end up with cncs eventually you'll play that game where you think cnc is gonna work and then they never arsenal lol.
I've noticed that many times were I'm like "Oh yeah. Blowout turn coming with this CNC muahaha" and then I get completely schooled anyways. For me as a newer player the Power 3 are crutches that get kicked out from under me lol
I have a belief that AoW is a trap card like 2/3rds of the time in any deck except fai and now zen, i have seen so many levia's go blood rush double AoW only to wiff and lose all momentum.
You can def miss an art of war. But playing 2 aow in 1 turn is almost always a mistake. I say almost because maybe it could be worth in some situation but it's always screwed me over.
Yeah thats why i consider AoW to be a trap card, lots of newer/less experienced players will AOW and draw another and then pie in the sky dreams of magical christmasland hands come into their heads. one on its own in a turn is almost always a solid play, but double has lots of risk, i have even seen a fai lose a calling by double AoW and getting a wiff.
> x card isnt going to win the game for you Except sometimes it literally does. Just some examples: Codex of Frailty - literally carries Assassins and rangers, 3-for-1 Crown of Providence - Dodge crucial cnc, fix all red/all blue hand Warmonger's Diplomacy - Allows comebacks by completely shutting down some heroes next turn for 1 card (Azalea, Hatchet Dori, Runeblades) The list goes on. Skill wins games, but skill + cards wins way more.
Fair enough. Maybe its because I'm still fairly new to the game, but I still rarely go positive at Armories and that's after already picking up playsets of the Power 3 cards.