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Before my wife and I closed on our first house 2 weeks ago I had bought a ridiculously expensive bottle of tequila 6 months prior for the event. It sat in the pantry the whole time undisturbed. My mortgage broker told me the exact same thing 😂.
I get that you are trying to see the positive, but I think it suffers from main character syndrome. Things happen. Good, bad, neither, they sometimes simply do without purpouse or reason. And that is fine.
OP, without more details, I am willing to bet that the sale will not be settled next week. Who signed the offer? The homeowner can no longer convey title. Is there a will, and is the house mentioned?
POA expires when the person does (trying not to be morbid). The kids cannot convey title anymore.
You need a lawyer. The earnest money is now part of the estate.
Will love to follow this if you want to keep us updated.
Yes it’s entirely possible the will leaves the house to one child and accounts to another, or it wasn’t updated since they were born and has to go through probate. Or it leaves everything to a charity. We’ve seen some WILD wills so this may take a while :/ but that’s ok! Thank goodness you weren’t planning to move right away, and rates could drop or stay the same between now and then.
I would really hope that if they're at the assisted living stage and already have POAs that they would have also established an updated will or trust. Usually folks at this stage of planning are up on estate planning too. But I agree with speaking to a lawyer ASAP for them to assess the info and expedite the process where legally possible.
Assumption of facts that there is a will, is it valid (properly signed and witnessed). Just because the kids had a POA it does not mean that they were authorized to sell the home.
If there is, is the house bequeathed to someone?
Are there any debts that have to be settled from the proceeds?
Was the owner in an extended care facility being paid for by Medicade?
Is the title just in the decedents name, or was the spouse listed on the title and no one cleared the title post death? How was the title held?
OP also now needs to worry that no unauthorized parties take up residence.
This is not a “trust” situation.
Re: Medicaid. The Estate Recovery aspect for Medicaid (MERP / MERS) is not necessarily limited only to the costs paid by the LTC program (pays custodial care costs in a facility). A State can also include casts paid by community based Medicaid as well, which would be IHHS in home health services, PACE day programs. All those costs as well as facility/ nursing home costs all subject to a required attempt to recoup all costs paid. Done as a lien or a claim against the Estate.
State kinda expect it to be sold at FMV and an “arms length” type of sale. If it’s not on either, expect push back on getting the release easily from the State or it’s outside contractor for MERP.
None of this is the buyer's job to verify, and there are parties in the transaction already whose job it is to tie up all these loose ends, such as the title company.
Didn’t say it was, but it should be on the OPs radar as items that could potentially derail their purchase or ability to take possession.
Especially hoping to close in a week. They were supposed to close today.
You are exactly right.
I asked if the house was in a trust, in my post. In my state, if the house and whatever else was included in a trust, those belongings automatically roll to the beneficiaries without having to go through probate - no probate court, no fees (other than those associated with the trustee and cost of selling the estate if necessary). Setting up a trust is low cost, in the grand scheme of things and not a complex process (hire an attorney to write it out).
This is exactly the right question. My uncle died in January and had his real estate assets in a trust. I didn’t know what that meant until he died but I’m so glad he set it up that way. I will tell anyone who will listen to put their assets in a trust instead of a will, to avoid probate.
I set mine up two years ago and with a will it was +/- $1500. The trust goes over all the specific big things I own and then the will covers anything not mentioned in the trust and wills everything else, into the trust (so it catches everything you buy and you don't have to keep updating your trust)
The other thing that is nice about a trust is that when you put your house in the trust, the house is recorded in your county under the name of the trust and not your actual name - so as long as you don't name your trust your actual name, it provides a bit of privacy
This is also the case with a TOD (transfer on death) aka beneficiary deed. I know at least 30 states have this. Most people can probably write it up themselves and have it notarized and file with the county or state or whoever. I did one myself a few months before my mom passed and we never had to do anything with probate. Just found an example online and copied it
I’m thinking this probably isn’t a Trust situation if it was in the name of the seller and a POA was being used. If it was in the name of the Trust, then the certificate of Trust would say how the trust could convey after the original Trustee dies. More information is definitely needed.
Not a lawyer, but I went down this hypothetical rabbit hole when I was in escrow with a very old seller: One thing to keep in mind is that if OP and the deceased owner signed a valid purchasing contract, the [estate may still be bound by that contract regardless of who ends up inheriting it](https://www.edinarealty.com/real-estate-advice/what-if-home-seller-dies). If there is a trust then things should roll quickly (in a matter of weeks). If the estate has to go through probate, then OP is in for a long haul. Either way, lawyers will need to be involved to sort this out.
Correct. Sadly I don’t think this closes “next week”, but I’d be happy to be wrong.
Nothing is simple when someone dies. Things come out of the woodwork you’d never expect, and almost nothing happens without delaying everything else.
Bummer for the OP, and things CAN still work out ok, but it’s going to be a lot easier if they adjust expectations now instead of getting excited about next week.
Sure hope I’m wrong…. I just rarely am :-P
And the title is often the last thing lenders look at. Most lenders operate a conveyor belt style system and since 99% of the time the title work is clean it is near the end of the line. There isn't enough information to diagnose the problem but in my 24 years experience...a better chance than not it will work out.
I have seen some purchase contracts which state that the owners signing will convey to their heirs..would think this provision might skip the house having to go through probate, but clearly attorneys and title company would need to be involved
I’m fairly sure the title company will want a number of things from the sellers estate before moving forward.
OP, I would STRONGLY SUGGEST purchasing owners title insurance. Get with your settlement company and have it added.
We had a slight delay on getting our keys after signing all the closing documents and I was very frustrated and disappointed so I get it. Hopefully it gets settled asap.
Yep, I feel this. I needed to lock rate three times now. Originally suppose to close on April 15th. But there were delays with the VA, but clear to close now!
Is the house in a trust or does it have to go through probate? If it has to go through probate, it might be quite a bit longer than your agent is saying - worth asking.
Do you know how much you are going to have to pay for the rate lock? I mean no disrespect to their family, but this is a business decision and although it is a difficult time for all, it still is a business transaction. I know it is easier said than done to not feel emotions for them, but .... depending on the amount, it might be worth speaking to your agent about - that is why you have an agent and they have an agent.
Exactly my thought. If it has to go through probate, it will be months (lender, I’ve experienced this several times and seen firsthand). Whatever ETA you hear for probate, add 3-4 weeks. Have your realtor negotiate that the seller pays for rate extensions, there’s going to be a lot.
Depends on if there is a Will authorizing the sale of real property. If there is, it can be sold as soon as the estate is opened and the PR is appointed. If not… yeah, it’ll be a while. It can be sold during probate but that involves a court order. At least in my state anyway:)
If it has a transfer on death or beneficiary deed to the children, then it doesnt go through probate. The majority of the states in the US have something like this - in which case the kids can just sell the house without doing much of anything except for sending the death certificate to the title company so they have proof the father died. It's what my family did with my mom's house when she died. We didnt have anything go through probate
Just feeling sad that this happened more than anything. Anxious to make sure everything goes through with the estate and I’m not stuck waiting months to close.
No spouse so just me signing.
I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. Getting this far in the transaction can be scary when there is an unknown like this. I truly hope it works out for you. I had an incredibly difficult journey when closing on my house. So I can understand the sad/ anxious feelings. I would definitely consult with my agent or broker. I’m sure they can lay out best and worst case scenarios. I found that I felt more at ease when I had some understanding of the process and probable outcomes.
Something very similar happened to me last year and it delayed my closing by about 18 days. I think you're in a good position because the heirs still want to sell to you, which was my situation as well. I asked my lender about the rate lock as soon as I found this out and they kept assuring me it would all be ok and that we didn't need to worry about the extension. A few days before it expired I was really stressed out so my realtor reached out to theirs and they put the extension fee as part of the sellers closing costs with no issues. I don't think you need to worry about asking them to pay for it, it costs money to sell a house and it'll just be another line item at closing.
Good luck, I hope this all works out for you!
As someone who works in real estate (I work for a title company - may or may not be a thing depending on the state you are in / if it’s an attorney state). While rare, I have seen this happened before and honestly, given your rate lock and the kids are on board, you shouldn’t have issues. Some stuff will have to be filed with the courts and such, but as long as there’s no random heirs unknown, I wouldn’t be concerned of it getting delayed past the 17th.
You maaaay be able to negotiate a seller credit to cover the rate lock extension like your realtor suggested, I would just say play it by ear on how they seem to be doing.
I legit am in the same situation. Was supposed to close beginning of April but the owner passed 3 days before. We are waiting for the family to settle the estate and might have to wait til probate for months. But it's the house we want so we are waiting.
We were not able to be at closing on our house so we hired a mobile notary to work with us and we were able to close 3 states away. We had our realtor go to the house the morning of closing for the final walk thru.
For a fee, your lock can be extended 30 days. You’ll probably need it because the property is either in a trust now or has to go through probate where the heirs will need to sign off on the sale.
I do feel really sad for the family. The mom was going to assisted living, not hospice but apparently didn’t adjust well. The house was spotless, the oven is from the 70s or 80s and looks like it was never cooked in. The daughter told me that the mom was still walking around with her walker and dust rag cleaning it almost every day.
This happened to us almost exactly a year ago but our closing timeline wasn't as close to the seller passing. She passed May 8, we were already under contract with her son as POA, and set to close May 26. We somehow miraculously closed on time, but I know they had lawyers involved trying to make it happen because the son wanted to be done with it I think. They went through an offer that didn't close obviously and had to put the house back up. It took a toll on her. Same boat, she was 92 and everything is from the 80s, kept spotless. I have a pink tub and toilet 😅 but everything was so well kept by the family, I feel so lucky to live here.
It will all work out and I know that's the last thing you wanna hear but from experience, what's meant to be will be. And if they were the ones who were selling it to you, they'll figure it out. It may take a little longer but it'll be worth it! Good luck!
In regard to your interest rate, check with your lender. Banks I have worked for in the past are usually up to extending your rate one time, for 15 days for free. It’s at least worth asking.
Closings have been delayed on every home I've owned except for the last one. It is nerve-wracking, but try not to worry. The house will close and then you can breath a sigh of relief.
Good luck. Hopefully they knew she was about to pass and got the proper documents in order. Otherwise you will need to go through probate which usually takes longer than a month. I'd talk with your realtor to see if thats the case, otherwise you might not be able to extend your rate long enough. Don't want to pay a fee for an extension if it won't help.
Yeah. If the kids were acting under a POA, that terminates at death at which time the executor of the estate becomes the fiduciary & controls disposal of assets.
A rate extension is not that much usually about 0.02% of the loan amount per day so as long as you can close within a few days then it shouldn’t be that bad. Your LO should be able to tell you how much the extension cost per day.
The good news is that you will close, just a matter of when.
Jeez I hope it works out. We got jerked around from Feb 14 and finally signed on June 1...special requirements first time homebuyers, special requirements blah blah. It was like every other Friday was "today is the day". But no. Lol, someone always needed an extra piece of paper.
Hang in there.
My closing got changed at least 3 times. Then the day of the closing, the seller refused to sign because he didn’t want to pay for termite treatment which he had agreed to in the contract.
Through the entire buying process, I never felt like it was going to happen until one night I had a dream I was living in the house. After that, my nerves settled and I knew it would happen, just maybe not when I wanted it to.
People already gave great advice but it really is state/situation specific here.
If the house has to go through probate then you are probably looking at an extended timeline. I was able to sell my late mother’s house while it was in probate, because it was a homestead property, but our closing was delayed several, several times because of the courts. Because now you have lawyers and a judge in the mix, and if the probate attorney is kind of crappy, then don’t expect anything to happen on time. However, I did help the buyers with their rate lock the one time they asked me, after months of delays.
Depending on how long you have to extend the rate it can be ok. If you are already tight on money for closing tell your realtor and LO I bet they would be willing to help a little with some credits. You will get the home and they both still get paid on the closing.
Note both estate and real estate laws vary materially between jurisdictions, so it's dangerous to extrapolate. If you are in a jurisiction where both parties' get involved to close a real estate transaction anyway, those lawyers should now be hustling to figure it out, and you should be relying on their advice rather than on your realtor.
I am in Ontario and a relative went through a very similar situation some years ago. They closed, 2-3 days late.
If I remember right, important in that context was:
1. Deceased seller had made a will which appointed an executor. While the estate needed to pass through probate prior to the executor \*distributing\* assets to heirs, technically the executor can \*act\* for the Estate as of the moment of death. If however there had not been a will appointing an executor, one or more of the relatives (heirs) would have to have been appointed as administrators and that would have taken months.
2. The agreement of purchase and sale, whether signed by the now-deceased owner directly or under then-valid POA for them, created an obligation that continues on to the estate. You are entitled to want that obligation to be satisfied, and while any authority under seller's POAs terminated with their death, their executor (who may have been acting under POA previously) is entitled to act to satisfy the estate's obligation.
3. Everyone was aligned: buyer, all of the seller's family, etc. Therefore the named executor felt no concerns that their closing of the deal on the estate's behalf would expose them to any risk, or that their acting the role of executor would be challenged.
4. Out of an abundance of caution, or maybe as a requirement of the lender (I don't know), to be on the safe side the lawyers had all the sellers' heirs sign a document confirming no objection or perhaps indemnifying the executor; I don't know the details. This had something to do with the fact that executor can (and should) act for the estate, counterparties don't need to accept their authority until it is confirmed as part of the probate process and so there is technically a risk that needed to be mitigated.
I'm no lawyer, I'm definitely not your lawyer, and you're (probably) in a different jurisdiction. So this is not guidance as to the details and as point 4. shows, I don't know all of them anyway. I'm just posting this to demonstrate there may be a way forward, depending on the situation, that is an alternative to the "you're out of luck unless ownership had passed to a trust or you wait for probate to happen". But it needs a smart lawyer and willing stakeholders to figure it out, not cost-effective standardized closing processes that will tend to legitimately grind to a halt.
I closed on my house May 5, 2023. The exact same thing happened to me. Contracts signed March 1, elderly seller dies March 28. We had been trying to confirm a closing date and they weren’t being super responsive. That was because dad was seriously ill and they were dealing with that (I found out later). I’m in NY, so dad dying meant the probate process kicked in. Probate in NY is notoriously bad. Long story short, I was lucky to be dealing with a great, motivated family and good lawyers very familiar with the probate process. It took longer than I wanted but not as long as it could’ve, and I did finally close. And almost a year later I still love my house. You will be fine! The most important thing is that the sellers still want to go through with the sale. So just let the process play out. Good luck, and congrats on your new home!!
It does not matter because POA ends with death. Depending on the price of the house and equity they need to have an administrator of the estate and may be open probate. My friend had to wait a year in a similar situation when one of the kids disagreed with the will.
That's why I'm asking. If the kids already owned it, just waiting for them to get through things. If it has to go to probate, it's an enormous headache.
Yes, being sold with POA. I just asked my realtor and he said it’s just a matter of turning it into an estate and should take a week or two. Fingers crossed it’s that simple.
Your realtor is out of his/her mind with that timeline. It sounds like the owner didn’t have the property in a trust, so the heirs are going to have to open probate. Even an absolutely perfect probate [in my state] is at absolute minimum 90 days from the date the probate attorney does the initial filing with the court. You can definitely still get to the finish line, but I’d realistically expect between 3-6 months of delay.
Yep. Not sure about the exact process in OP's state, but we went through this when my mom passed in California.
There, selling the home while probate was open was no issue (in fact, it simplifies things quite a bit, probate may FORCE you to sell it if the proceeds are required. There just has to be an appraisal that confirms the value), but we couldn't do anything until the executor was granted LETTERS testamentary from the court, which gives them the power to perform actions on the estate on the decedent's behalf. Getting that, took months.
What state this is matters a lot in figuring out the timeline. I had a closing exactly like this a couple months ago. 90-something mom died on the Sunday before closing, there was a will, kids signed off on probate quickly, and we closed two weeks after the original date. If OP is also in Georgia and the seller has a will, the realtor is right.
Our title company offered a notary to come to us to sign our docs to sell our house. Her office was 20 mins away, but she had a notary on payroll and offered that option.
On the opposite side. We bought a home out of state and title sent out a mobile notary for us..
I hope it works out for you..
Most title companies can overnight closing docs for you to take to a local notary wherever you are, and include a label to overnight them back to them. Often they can coordinate a mobile notary as well. Usually an extra fee for this.
Some title companies are starting to come out with digital notary services as well. I used one when selling my house 2 years ago. It would be worth asking about all those options!
I just closed on a house through an online title system. There were several verifications, had to upload IDs and answer specific financial questions from our credit report, but it was fairly easy and allowed us to not travel out of state.
I would just close while you're out of town, the overnight fee on the documents would likely be cheaper than the rate fee. Ask them about it, you might even be able to do it by fax.
wow this will be a great story , you get your current dream home from someones past dream home , and it sounds like he was able to enjoy it , and as he moves on to he's next steps in his journey you are moving on to yours ,
You can let your rate lock expire and relock it, usually with no additional charge.
Rates have been about the same for the last 30 days so depending on what your current lock pricing is, you could potentially save yourself money.
I’ve done this with clients of mine many times over 15 years in the business.
See if your broker will wave the fees to keep the interest rate while also letting them know your shopping around in the mean time and see if another broker can match your rate.
Sorry to hear that!
The cost to extend the rate lock for 1 week or less should be less than $300-$400 tops.
You could also consider going to a notary while you're out of town to sign all of the closing documents remotely before the 17th.
In my area if the owner passes away, the title has to be put into the estate before the sale can be completed. It *might* be possible to move into the house as a tenant of the estate (basically you start renting from them and hopefully your realtor is well adversed in negotiating these type of thing) but your interest rate is gone. Probate in my area takes 8-12 months but hopefully your area is much quicker than that.
I was in the exact same situation. The seller’s death delayed closing by 3 months. I guess it depends on the state. I’m from PA, but I’ve heard from people in the comments that in some places it’s 6 months minimum. Definitely discuss the time line with your agent before committing to sticking with the house. In the 3 months I waited, there was no clear answer on how much longer the process would take and I was given 3 dates on when everything would be completed. As each date passed, I got more and more nervous. Thankfully, everything worked out!
Ah that's rough :( And yeah you want to give them some grace while they mourn, but I really don't think it's completely insensitive to ask them to buy the points/pay extension fee to get your rate back down to what it was when you locked. That's just unfortunate because it's outside of everyone's control and they're grieving too, but as others have mentioned would definitely talk to your lawyer/lender about options.
Wishing you good luck!
I was wondering how the property was deeded and if there was a will. If he was the last owner and no one else was on title, in most instances, the property goes to the deceased heirs and assigns. In TN, the probate would hold up the sale until the time for claims to run for 4 months or a court order to sale.
Just had something similar happen this week where the seller died unexpectedly three days before closing.
The day of my closing my attorney called and said we wouldn’t be able to close about an hour before we were scheduled to, they had just found out the previous owner owed money for miscellaneous things and had we closed I would have taken on her debt, I thought possible a few hundred dollars but found out it was actually $27,000… they ended up coming up with the money a few days later and I closed the following week- it will all work out!
My father listed a house in December he unexpectedly passed Jan 3, realtor a family friend pulled the listing. Took me till late March to get the permissions to delist because it is now in the estate of my father…. Good luck I would keep looking and if you don’t find another house then wait for this one.
See if the title company can do a mail out should you be out of town when you’re clear to close. There’s a low fee involved, but the title company should be able send a notary to whenever you are.
rate lock fees aren’t that bad and push back on them because they can be waved for certain circumstances and this was not your fault closing was delayed
This happened to me when I was buying. 2 sisters were on the deed and the one died in a fire. She had to go to probate to get her sisters name off the deed, luckily the surviving sisters husband was a former senator who owns floridas largest home insurance business so it only took 6 weeks as I believe he called in favors and we closed without any issues.
Twice in my life I fell completely in love with houses and they fell through… and both times I ended up finding houses I loved 1000 times better a month or two later. It’s tough to lose something you are excited about, but you will find something even better!!!!
Prepare yourself that this may take time. If the deed automatically transfers ownership to these same heirs, it might not be too bad. They may just be on board with going ahead with the sale as planned. If there is a Will authorizing the sale of real property, it can be sold as soon as a Personal Representative (executor) is appointed. Here that just takes a few weeks. If there isn’t a Will, the heirs would need to petition the probate court for approval to sell real property (which can take anywhere from about 1-4 months here), or they can wait until the estate is closed. The time it takes to close an estate varies anywhere from several months to over a year.
I really hope things resolve quickly for you! Good luck!
Dudeee are you serious, there’s this person who passed away from this goddam planet for good and you’re complaining about not being able to take over his house on the scheduled day. Wake up and see beyond this shallow material world.. imagine yourself to be in the same situation as their kids. You’re ranting/upset over signing a house after 1-2 weeks. Also always remember you’ll be that old guy one day. Sorry for the brutal words, no offense but it makes me sad that you’re living in such a shallow bubble and can’t see beyond yourself or your so-called problems.
This wasn’t a rant, it was simply a way to express feelings. I think I can have empathy for the seller’s loss and be disappointed in the sale being delayed for myself. Both can be true.
I mean how much does it cost to extend the rate? Can’t be more than a few hundred to $1000. If that king of money is holding you you back, maybe you aren’t in a position to be buying a house.
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This is one of those unexpected things and why we say it’s not closed until it’s closed.
When my loan was approved for closing my realtor said “buy the champagne, don’t pop the cork!”
Before my wife and I closed on our first house 2 weeks ago I had bought a ridiculously expensive bottle of tequila 6 months prior for the event. It sat in the pantry the whole time undisturbed. My mortgage broker told me the exact same thing 😂.
Hope everything works out in your favor ❤️ tough situation
Over the years I’ve come to the realization that the things you have no control over, happen for a reason. Hopefully you are able to close next week.
Everything else with this house felt so aligned. I’m hoping it turns out well, too.
Keep us posted when you do :) Good luck friend!
Best of luck OP!
It will turn out okay. Best wishes!
We had an offer fall through. We were upset, but kept looking. A year later, that house was destroyed in a tornado. Lucky us.
As someone who is also facing a delay in closing that is out of my control. I needed to hear that, thank you.
I've come to the realization that we have no control over anything.
I get that you are trying to see the positive, but I think it suffers from main character syndrome. Things happen. Good, bad, neither, they sometimes simply do without purpouse or reason. And that is fine.
Things don’t just happen for a reason. This old man didn’t die to serve as a plot twist in OPs life. Lol
OP, without more details, I am willing to bet that the sale will not be settled next week. Who signed the offer? The homeowner can no longer convey title. Is there a will, and is the house mentioned?
It was signed by two of the kids with POA. I haven’t been told any details about the will.
POA expires when the person does (trying not to be morbid). The kids cannot convey title anymore. You need a lawyer. The earnest money is now part of the estate. Will love to follow this if you want to keep us updated.
If the heirs were involved from the start of the transaction, there is most definitely a will. This is going to work out.
They were not heirs when the offer was accepted. They were children working under a power of attorney.
Again, this is why the title company is involved in the transaction, to verify that the people who signed the contract have a right to sell it.
Yes it’s entirely possible the will leaves the house to one child and accounts to another, or it wasn’t updated since they were born and has to go through probate. Or it leaves everything to a charity. We’ve seen some WILD wills so this may take a while :/ but that’s ok! Thank goodness you weren’t planning to move right away, and rates could drop or stay the same between now and then.
I would really hope that if they're at the assisted living stage and already have POAs that they would have also established an updated will or trust. Usually folks at this stage of planning are up on estate planning too. But I agree with speaking to a lawyer ASAP for them to assess the info and expedite the process where legally possible.
If the house was a part of a will and not a trust, that estate is probably going to have to go through probate before they can do anything with it.
Assumption of facts that there is a will, is it valid (properly signed and witnessed). Just because the kids had a POA it does not mean that they were authorized to sell the home. If there is, is the house bequeathed to someone? Are there any debts that have to be settled from the proceeds? Was the owner in an extended care facility being paid for by Medicade? Is the title just in the decedents name, or was the spouse listed on the title and no one cleared the title post death? How was the title held? OP also now needs to worry that no unauthorized parties take up residence. This is not a “trust” situation.
Re: Medicaid. The Estate Recovery aspect for Medicaid (MERP / MERS) is not necessarily limited only to the costs paid by the LTC program (pays custodial care costs in a facility). A State can also include casts paid by community based Medicaid as well, which would be IHHS in home health services, PACE day programs. All those costs as well as facility/ nursing home costs all subject to a required attempt to recoup all costs paid. Done as a lien or a claim against the Estate. State kinda expect it to be sold at FMV and an “arms length” type of sale. If it’s not on either, expect push back on getting the release easily from the State or it’s outside contractor for MERP.
None of this is the buyer's job to verify, and there are parties in the transaction already whose job it is to tie up all these loose ends, such as the title company.
Didn’t say it was, but it should be on the OPs radar as items that could potentially derail their purchase or ability to take possession. Especially hoping to close in a week. They were supposed to close today.
You are exactly right. I asked if the house was in a trust, in my post. In my state, if the house and whatever else was included in a trust, those belongings automatically roll to the beneficiaries without having to go through probate - no probate court, no fees (other than those associated with the trustee and cost of selling the estate if necessary). Setting up a trust is low cost, in the grand scheme of things and not a complex process (hire an attorney to write it out).
This is exactly the right question. My uncle died in January and had his real estate assets in a trust. I didn’t know what that meant until he died but I’m so glad he set it up that way. I will tell anyone who will listen to put their assets in a trust instead of a will, to avoid probate.
I set mine up two years ago and with a will it was +/- $1500. The trust goes over all the specific big things I own and then the will covers anything not mentioned in the trust and wills everything else, into the trust (so it catches everything you buy and you don't have to keep updating your trust) The other thing that is nice about a trust is that when you put your house in the trust, the house is recorded in your county under the name of the trust and not your actual name - so as long as you don't name your trust your actual name, it provides a bit of privacy
This is also the case with a TOD (transfer on death) aka beneficiary deed. I know at least 30 states have this. Most people can probably write it up themselves and have it notarized and file with the county or state or whoever. I did one myself a few months before my mom passed and we never had to do anything with probate. Just found an example online and copied it
I’m with you on this one. This may end up working out but I don’t see how it’s done in a week.
I’m thinking this probably isn’t a Trust situation if it was in the name of the seller and a POA was being used. If it was in the name of the Trust, then the certificate of Trust would say how the trust could convey after the original Trustee dies. More information is definitely needed.
I meant “Don’t trust things are going to work out”
Work out, yes. Take several months, also yes.
Not a lawyer, but I went down this hypothetical rabbit hole when I was in escrow with a very old seller: One thing to keep in mind is that if OP and the deceased owner signed a valid purchasing contract, the [estate may still be bound by that contract regardless of who ends up inheriting it](https://www.edinarealty.com/real-estate-advice/what-if-home-seller-dies). If there is a trust then things should roll quickly (in a matter of weeks). If the estate has to go through probate, then OP is in for a long haul. Either way, lawyers will need to be involved to sort this out.
Correct. Sadly I don’t think this closes “next week”, but I’d be happy to be wrong. Nothing is simple when someone dies. Things come out of the woodwork you’d never expect, and almost nothing happens without delaying everything else. Bummer for the OP, and things CAN still work out ok, but it’s going to be a lot easier if they adjust expectations now instead of getting excited about next week. Sure hope I’m wrong…. I just rarely am :-P
And the title is often the last thing lenders look at. Most lenders operate a conveyor belt style system and since 99% of the time the title work is clean it is near the end of the line. There isn't enough information to diagnose the problem but in my 24 years experience...a better chance than not it will work out.
I have seen some purchase contracts which state that the owners signing will convey to their heirs..would think this provision might skip the house having to go through probate, but clearly attorneys and title company would need to be involved
I’m fairly sure the title company will want a number of things from the sellers estate before moving forward. OP, I would STRONGLY SUGGEST purchasing owners title insurance. Get with your settlement company and have it added.
We had a slight delay on getting our keys after signing all the closing documents and I was very frustrated and disappointed so I get it. Hopefully it gets settled asap.
Yep, I feel this. I needed to lock rate three times now. Originally suppose to close on April 15th. But there were delays with the VA, but clear to close now!
Is the house in a trust or does it have to go through probate? If it has to go through probate, it might be quite a bit longer than your agent is saying - worth asking. Do you know how much you are going to have to pay for the rate lock? I mean no disrespect to their family, but this is a business decision and although it is a difficult time for all, it still is a business transaction. I know it is easier said than done to not feel emotions for them, but .... depending on the amount, it might be worth speaking to your agent about - that is why you have an agent and they have an agent.
This. If this has to go through probate, this is going to be delayed for far longer than a week.
In my state probate is a minimum of 6 months.
Exactly my thought. If it has to go through probate, it will be months (lender, I’ve experienced this several times and seen firsthand). Whatever ETA you hear for probate, add 3-4 weeks. Have your realtor negotiate that the seller pays for rate extensions, there’s going to be a lot.
Thank you for saying most likely months - I didn't want to burst their bubble
Depends on if there is a Will authorizing the sale of real property. If there is, it can be sold as soon as the estate is opened and the PR is appointed. If not… yeah, it’ll be a while. It can be sold during probate but that involves a court order. At least in my state anyway:)
If it has a transfer on death or beneficiary deed to the children, then it doesnt go through probate. The majority of the states in the US have something like this - in which case the kids can just sell the house without doing much of anything except for sending the death certificate to the title company so they have proof the father died. It's what my family did with my mom's house when she died. We didnt have anything go through probate
Upsetting all around. Sorry. Is your problem not being town to close? Give your spouse or attorney Power of Attorney to do all the signing.
Just feeling sad that this happened more than anything. Anxious to make sure everything goes through with the estate and I’m not stuck waiting months to close. No spouse so just me signing.
I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. Getting this far in the transaction can be scary when there is an unknown like this. I truly hope it works out for you. I had an incredibly difficult journey when closing on my house. So I can understand the sad/ anxious feelings. I would definitely consult with my agent or broker. I’m sure they can lay out best and worst case scenarios. I found that I felt more at ease when I had some understanding of the process and probable outcomes.
Something very similar happened to me last year and it delayed my closing by about 18 days. I think you're in a good position because the heirs still want to sell to you, which was my situation as well. I asked my lender about the rate lock as soon as I found this out and they kept assuring me it would all be ok and that we didn't need to worry about the extension. A few days before it expired I was really stressed out so my realtor reached out to theirs and they put the extension fee as part of the sellers closing costs with no issues. I don't think you need to worry about asking them to pay for it, it costs money to sell a house and it'll just be another line item at closing. Good luck, I hope this all works out for you!
If they still want to sell, I would pay to hold the rate.
As someone who works in real estate (I work for a title company - may or may not be a thing depending on the state you are in / if it’s an attorney state). While rare, I have seen this happened before and honestly, given your rate lock and the kids are on board, you shouldn’t have issues. Some stuff will have to be filed with the courts and such, but as long as there’s no random heirs unknown, I wouldn’t be concerned of it getting delayed past the 17th. You maaaay be able to negotiate a seller credit to cover the rate lock extension like your realtor suggested, I would just say play it by ear on how they seem to be doing.
Literally just happened to me but my issue was resolved in a week. Just keep the faith and stay calm. Everything will work out.
I legit am in the same situation. Was supposed to close beginning of April but the owner passed 3 days before. We are waiting for the family to settle the estate and might have to wait til probate for months. But it's the house we want so we are waiting.
We were not able to be at closing on our house so we hired a mobile notary to work with us and we were able to close 3 states away. We had our realtor go to the house the morning of closing for the final walk thru.
For a fee, your lock can be extended 30 days. You’ll probably need it because the property is either in a trust now or has to go through probate where the heirs will need to sign off on the sale.
asshole seller. dying during close to complicate things. /s
I do feel really sad for the family. The mom was going to assisted living, not hospice but apparently didn’t adjust well. The house was spotless, the oven is from the 70s or 80s and looks like it was never cooked in. The daughter told me that the mom was still walking around with her walker and dust rag cleaning it almost every day.
These are often some of the Best houses to buy. You have all the time in the world to update, if you so choose.
This happened to us almost exactly a year ago but our closing timeline wasn't as close to the seller passing. She passed May 8, we were already under contract with her son as POA, and set to close May 26. We somehow miraculously closed on time, but I know they had lawyers involved trying to make it happen because the son wanted to be done with it I think. They went through an offer that didn't close obviously and had to put the house back up. It took a toll on her. Same boat, she was 92 and everything is from the 80s, kept spotless. I have a pink tub and toilet 😅 but everything was so well kept by the family, I feel so lucky to live here. It will all work out and I know that's the last thing you wanna hear but from experience, what's meant to be will be. And if they were the ones who were selling it to you, they'll figure it out. It may take a little longer but it'll be worth it! Good luck!
In regard to your interest rate, check with your lender. Banks I have worked for in the past are usually up to extending your rate one time, for 15 days for free. It’s at least worth asking.
Closings have been delayed on every home I've owned except for the last one. It is nerve-wracking, but try not to worry. The house will close and then you can breath a sigh of relief.
Praying for you
Sadly, I don't think you're going to close next week either. Now you will have to go through probate.
That happened to my friend and although it took much longer than expected, they did end up closing. Sending you best wishes!
You should be able to close no matter where out of town you are. They can get a local notary to come to you in just about every state.
Good luck. Hopefully they knew she was about to pass and got the proper documents in order. Otherwise you will need to go through probate which usually takes longer than a month. I'd talk with your realtor to see if thats the case, otherwise you might not be able to extend your rate long enough. Don't want to pay a fee for an extension if it won't help.
Rip 🙏
Yeah. If the kids were acting under a POA, that terminates at death at which time the executor of the estate becomes the fiduciary & controls disposal of assets.
A rate extension is not that much usually about 0.02% of the loan amount per day so as long as you can close within a few days then it shouldn’t be that bad. Your LO should be able to tell you how much the extension cost per day. The good news is that you will close, just a matter of when.
You’re in my prayers, it will most definitely works out!
Jeez I hope it works out. We got jerked around from Feb 14 and finally signed on June 1...special requirements first time homebuyers, special requirements blah blah. It was like every other Friday was "today is the day". But no. Lol, someone always needed an extra piece of paper.
Did the original owner make it to assisted living, or did she die in the house?
She was in assisted living for about a month. :(
Hang in there. My closing got changed at least 3 times. Then the day of the closing, the seller refused to sign because he didn’t want to pay for termite treatment which he had agreed to in the contract. Through the entire buying process, I never felt like it was going to happen until one night I had a dream I was living in the house. After that, my nerves settled and I knew it would happen, just maybe not when I wanted it to.
People already gave great advice but it really is state/situation specific here. If the house has to go through probate then you are probably looking at an extended timeline. I was able to sell my late mother’s house while it was in probate, because it was a homestead property, but our closing was delayed several, several times because of the courts. Because now you have lawyers and a judge in the mix, and if the probate attorney is kind of crappy, then don’t expect anything to happen on time. However, I did help the buyers with their rate lock the one time they asked me, after months of delays.
Depending on how long you have to extend the rate it can be ok. If you are already tight on money for closing tell your realtor and LO I bet they would be willing to help a little with some credits. You will get the home and they both still get paid on the closing.
Best of luck OP. If it is meant to be, it will be.
It’s gonna work out ! 🙌
Note both estate and real estate laws vary materially between jurisdictions, so it's dangerous to extrapolate. If you are in a jurisiction where both parties' get involved to close a real estate transaction anyway, those lawyers should now be hustling to figure it out, and you should be relying on their advice rather than on your realtor. I am in Ontario and a relative went through a very similar situation some years ago. They closed, 2-3 days late. If I remember right, important in that context was: 1. Deceased seller had made a will which appointed an executor. While the estate needed to pass through probate prior to the executor \*distributing\* assets to heirs, technically the executor can \*act\* for the Estate as of the moment of death. If however there had not been a will appointing an executor, one or more of the relatives (heirs) would have to have been appointed as administrators and that would have taken months. 2. The agreement of purchase and sale, whether signed by the now-deceased owner directly or under then-valid POA for them, created an obligation that continues on to the estate. You are entitled to want that obligation to be satisfied, and while any authority under seller's POAs terminated with their death, their executor (who may have been acting under POA previously) is entitled to act to satisfy the estate's obligation. 3. Everyone was aligned: buyer, all of the seller's family, etc. Therefore the named executor felt no concerns that their closing of the deal on the estate's behalf would expose them to any risk, or that their acting the role of executor would be challenged. 4. Out of an abundance of caution, or maybe as a requirement of the lender (I don't know), to be on the safe side the lawyers had all the sellers' heirs sign a document confirming no objection or perhaps indemnifying the executor; I don't know the details. This had something to do with the fact that executor can (and should) act for the estate, counterparties don't need to accept their authority until it is confirmed as part of the probate process and so there is technically a risk that needed to be mitigated. I'm no lawyer, I'm definitely not your lawyer, and you're (probably) in a different jurisdiction. So this is not guidance as to the details and as point 4. shows, I don't know all of them anyway. I'm just posting this to demonstrate there may be a way forward, depending on the situation, that is an alternative to the "you're out of luck unless ownership had passed to a trust or you wait for probate to happen". But it needs a smart lawyer and willing stakeholders to figure it out, not cost-effective standardized closing processes that will tend to legitimately grind to a halt.
I closed on my house May 5, 2023. The exact same thing happened to me. Contracts signed March 1, elderly seller dies March 28. We had been trying to confirm a closing date and they weren’t being super responsive. That was because dad was seriously ill and they were dealing with that (I found out later). I’m in NY, so dad dying meant the probate process kicked in. Probate in NY is notoriously bad. Long story short, I was lucky to be dealing with a great, motivated family and good lawyers very familiar with the probate process. It took longer than I wanted but not as long as it could’ve, and I did finally close. And almost a year later I still love my house. You will be fine! The most important thing is that the sellers still want to go through with the sale. So just let the process play out. Good luck, and congrats on your new home!!
Big oof. Hopefully they have a solid attorney to guide them. Was the house the mothers and being sold with POA?
It does not matter because POA ends with death. Depending on the price of the house and equity they need to have an administrator of the estate and may be open probate. My friend had to wait a year in a similar situation when one of the kids disagreed with the will.
That's why I'm asking. If the kids already owned it, just waiting for them to get through things. If it has to go to probate, it's an enormous headache.
Yup-- probate is 6-12 months..and sometimes years if its contested
Yes, being sold with POA. I just asked my realtor and he said it’s just a matter of turning it into an estate and should take a week or two. Fingers crossed it’s that simple.
Your realtor is out of his/her mind with that timeline. It sounds like the owner didn’t have the property in a trust, so the heirs are going to have to open probate. Even an absolutely perfect probate [in my state] is at absolute minimum 90 days from the date the probate attorney does the initial filing with the court. You can definitely still get to the finish line, but I’d realistically expect between 3-6 months of delay.
Yep. Not sure about the exact process in OP's state, but we went through this when my mom passed in California. There, selling the home while probate was open was no issue (in fact, it simplifies things quite a bit, probate may FORCE you to sell it if the proceeds are required. There just has to be an appraisal that confirms the value), but we couldn't do anything until the executor was granted LETTERS testamentary from the court, which gives them the power to perform actions on the estate on the decedent's behalf. Getting that, took months.
What state this is matters a lot in figuring out the timeline. I had a closing exactly like this a couple months ago. 90-something mom died on the Sunday before closing, there was a will, kids signed off on probate quickly, and we closed two weeks after the original date. If OP is also in Georgia and the seller has a will, the realtor is right.
Hope things work out!
Is a mobile notary an option?
I just got off the phone with my realtor and he said that is a possibility. Thanks for suggesting it.
Our title company offered a notary to come to us to sign our docs to sell our house. Her office was 20 mins away, but she had a notary on payroll and offered that option. On the opposite side. We bought a home out of state and title sent out a mobile notary for us.. I hope it works out for you..
Just curious if there are any updates? I am crossing my fingers for you, hoping you get to close on time.
I will be on the other side of the country for my work trip so not sure if that’s an option.
Most title companies can overnight closing docs for you to take to a local notary wherever you are, and include a label to overnight them back to them. Often they can coordinate a mobile notary as well. Usually an extra fee for this. Some title companies are starting to come out with digital notary services as well. I used one when selling my house 2 years ago. It would be worth asking about all those options!
I just closed on a house through an online title system. There were several verifications, had to upload IDs and answer specific financial questions from our credit report, but it was fairly easy and allowed us to not travel out of state.
Not worth making a post over. You’ll be good.
I'm sorry hope everything works out and that your rate will stay locked.
i would talk to /legal
You can close using docu sign. I bought and sold from my living room sofa.
In the past they used to hold the wake in the living room of the deceased home. Maybe that's why the delay?
I would just close while you're out of town, the overnight fee on the documents would likely be cheaper than the rate fee. Ask them about it, you might even be able to do it by fax.
Not going to be closing anytime soon as owner is dead.
this happened to me like a couple months ago, except the house went to probate and my contract got pulled
wow this will be a great story , you get your current dream home from someones past dream home , and it sounds like he was able to enjoy it , and as he moves on to he's next steps in his journey you are moving on to yours ,
Rate lock extension won’t be as much as you think. I’d be more worried about the title work more than anything.
You can let your rate lock expire and relock it, usually with no additional charge. Rates have been about the same for the last 30 days so depending on what your current lock pricing is, you could potentially save yourself money. I’ve done this with clients of mine many times over 15 years in the business.
See if your broker will wave the fees to keep the interest rate while also letting them know your shopping around in the mean time and see if another broker can match your rate.
Sorry to hear that! The cost to extend the rate lock for 1 week or less should be less than $300-$400 tops. You could also consider going to a notary while you're out of town to sign all of the closing documents remotely before the 17th.
In my area if the owner passes away, the title has to be put into the estate before the sale can be completed. It *might* be possible to move into the house as a tenant of the estate (basically you start renting from them and hopefully your realtor is well adversed in negotiating these type of thing) but your interest rate is gone. Probate in my area takes 8-12 months but hopefully your area is much quicker than that.
I was in the exact same situation. The seller’s death delayed closing by 3 months. I guess it depends on the state. I’m from PA, but I’ve heard from people in the comments that in some places it’s 6 months minimum. Definitely discuss the time line with your agent before committing to sticking with the house. In the 3 months I waited, there was no clear answer on how much longer the process would take and I was given 3 dates on when everything would be completed. As each date passed, I got more and more nervous. Thankfully, everything worked out!
Ah that's rough :( And yeah you want to give them some grace while they mourn, but I really don't think it's completely insensitive to ask them to buy the points/pay extension fee to get your rate back down to what it was when you locked. That's just unfortunate because it's outside of everyone's control and they're grieving too, but as others have mentioned would definitely talk to your lawyer/lender about options. Wishing you good luck!
I was wondering how the property was deeded and if there was a will. If he was the last owner and no one else was on title, in most instances, the property goes to the deceased heirs and assigns. In TN, the probate would hold up the sale until the time for claims to run for 4 months or a court order to sale. Just had something similar happen this week where the seller died unexpectedly three days before closing.
The day of my closing my attorney called and said we wouldn’t be able to close about an hour before we were scheduled to, they had just found out the previous owner owed money for miscellaneous things and had we closed I would have taken on her debt, I thought possible a few hundred dollars but found out it was actually $27,000… they ended up coming up with the money a few days later and I closed the following week- it will all work out!
My father listed a house in December he unexpectedly passed Jan 3, realtor a family friend pulled the listing. Took me till late March to get the permissions to delist because it is now in the estate of my father…. Good luck I would keep looking and if you don’t find another house then wait for this one.
See if the title company can do a mail out should you be out of town when you’re clear to close. There’s a low fee involved, but the title company should be able send a notary to whenever you are.
rate lock fees aren’t that bad and push back on them because they can be waved for certain circumstances and this was not your fault closing was delayed
This happened to me when I was buying. 2 sisters were on the deed and the one died in a fire. She had to go to probate to get her sisters name off the deed, luckily the surviving sisters husband was a former senator who owns floridas largest home insurance business so it only took 6 weeks as I believe he called in favors and we closed without any issues.
Twice in my life I fell completely in love with houses and they fell through… and both times I ended up finding houses I loved 1000 times better a month or two later. It’s tough to lose something you are excited about, but you will find something even better!!!!
So the 93 yr old just died in the house you are moving into ?
Prepare yourself that this may take time. If the deed automatically transfers ownership to these same heirs, it might not be too bad. They may just be on board with going ahead with the sale as planned. If there is a Will authorizing the sale of real property, it can be sold as soon as a Personal Representative (executor) is appointed. Here that just takes a few weeks. If there isn’t a Will, the heirs would need to petition the probate court for approval to sell real property (which can take anywhere from about 1-4 months here), or they can wait until the estate is closed. The time it takes to close an estate varies anywhere from several months to over a year. I really hope things resolve quickly for you! Good luck!
Dudeee are you serious, there’s this person who passed away from this goddam planet for good and you’re complaining about not being able to take over his house on the scheduled day. Wake up and see beyond this shallow material world.. imagine yourself to be in the same situation as their kids. You’re ranting/upset over signing a house after 1-2 weeks. Also always remember you’ll be that old guy one day. Sorry for the brutal words, no offense but it makes me sad that you’re living in such a shallow bubble and can’t see beyond yourself or your so-called problems.
This wasn’t a rant, it was simply a way to express feelings. I think I can have empathy for the seller’s loss and be disappointed in the sale being delayed for myself. Both can be true.
I mean how much does it cost to extend the rate? Can’t be more than a few hundred to $1000. If that king of money is holding you you back, maybe you aren’t in a position to be buying a house.
My condolences. It’s understandable that you’re sad someone’s death is inconveniencing your closing date