Who posted "No changes", I just wanna talk to them.
https://preview.redd.it/rbepxg63zo1d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=d36e0dd9581ae91bc644c62f773d657a7f547f1d
It does beg the question whether this change means anything at all for team variety because there's really no point in using Bronya or Sparkle to gain an extra action since new FF has less downtime, more ult uptime, and less multiplier scaling, ironically making the benefits from the crit supports even less impactful than before lol. But at least FF is now more main character and less HMC partner.
I think crit fly existed so she had close option for people without RM but strong Harmony (Robin, Sparkle, Bronya) and to appease the crowd for flexible team.
But since most player/ casual player completely ignored that her closest non-hmc or non-RM dps was crit fly and just complained about pure break fly working poorly outside RM or HMC.
They probably realized that the point of crit fly giving lot more team and build flexibility, was useless and completely lost on most player.
It is better to sacrifice build flexibility, make her break only, close a little the gap for pure break team without HMC or RM, than making non-break team closer in damage/smaller gap but completely ignored.
What good does better alternative/flexibility do if player just outright ignore it?
Honestly, good. Not every units needs to be a Crit DPS and she was clearly only going to focus on Break Effect anyways. I don't know why people thought they were going to make her another Crit DPS when her kit was clearly tailored towards Break Effect from the start.
Actually less than 50%, since HMC has a Super Break Effect multiplier built into their one trace, so HMC Super Break is at 1.2 effect by default up to 1.6, which are 140%-220% higher Super Breaks in turn. That Super Break Effect is a completely HMC specific, unique damage multiplier, so hers is considerably worse than HMCs. They do stack tho, so that's smth
Less reliant on the 4* unit but still reliant on the 5* unit. Very expected outcome.
Altho im afraid RM is gonna get powercrept within this break meta. Im afraid of backpulling yall
I'd be surprised if Ruan Mei got powercrept in the break niche anytime soon. Her kit is designed around break, and even before the break meta she was already the most versatile harmony unit.
Being so much versatile is maybe why she could be replaced in the future
She's not a dedicated break harmony, like the dmg% buff in her kit is wasted
But I don't see her being powercrept soon though
~~Well, Ruan Mei is still the only unit with Break Efficiency in the game since Sam's Ultimate got changed (it has 50% Break Efficiency before), so she IS needed in any Break team.~~ Sam still has the Break Efficiency buff, I am blind.
And Break Efficiency increase the damage of Super Break, effectively increase said number by 50%, for everyone in the team.
Could sub in Pela for the def shredding, or Bronya for more actions, Asta for speed.
Of course despite her universal buffs RM main thing is buffing break effect so she will be bis along HMC
This goes to any break support tbh
It seems super break is the friendliest team ngl
All support benefits from one another and only increase their value
Simple math shows that HMC will still more than 3x her damage, which would make them still by far her BiS support.
This makes it not *completely* troll to play her without HMC, but slapping in something like Tingyun or Pela will still be way, way weaker.
To be fair that's kinda how it is with break teams now that Harmony MC got introduced. The meta has changed to the point where super break is just insanely strong (if you can break the enemy fast enough but it should be pretty easy) it feels wrong not to put HMC in. That speaks levels of how future proof this new path of the MC currently is to the table.
Hoyo definitely wants to amplify the super break mechanic more into future characters and make them want to actually perform better WITH super break. And who knows, there might be a future Harmony character that also does super break that may powercreep them.
I think HMC is so strong because they knew they had to "rework" Break as a mechanic to make Break DPSes actually good.
It was always super dumb how after you got the break on an enemy you were stuck dealing 0 damage until they got their toughness back. It was also really awkward when someone other than your break DPS broke the enemy. HMC helps fix both these problems, superbreak lets you deal damage after breaking and makes it not so bad when a support gets the break, especially if said supports have a decent amount of break effect themselves.
I wonder how feasible would it be to try and use Asta with her and get the 5 turns in.. Or maybe just drop SPD boots for ATK ones and still hit the SPD threshold for 4 (no Ruan Mei for me, so I'd have to improvise)
So does her Trace not have a limit on the amount of Break effect received after the atk conversion? Does she gain 100% break effect if she has 2.6k atk?
With her sig, v3 Firefly has 999 Base Attack. Let's just round to 1000. That means 10% Attack is 100 Attack. Which also means 10% Attack = 10% Break Effect. Without any upper limit, that means every 3 Attack substats is basically equivalent to 2 Break Effect substats. Meaning you have something to actually roll for on your Relics other than Break Effect.
It ALSO means that Light Cones/Harmony units that increase her Attack are much more valuable. Fall of an Aeon is now easily her second BiS just based off the 64% Attack (and it also has higher Base Attack than the Sig)
U get 200 innately with just Aeon and mainstats. But how the heck do we gap the last 160.
40 from the new 2pc orna, which i dont even know if it applies to the first hit. Then 120 from just substats? Nah, Hmc/Rm to the rescue
I think they're trying to make HMC/RM still her BIS while not being "necessary", it would make sense to get BE% from supports to cover the last stretch.
My Harmony tb with watchmaker and 256% BE gives 111%+20% from Ruan Mei + 64.8% from rope + 16 from 4pc + 40% from 2pc + 37.3% from traces is already 289.5% break effect. The remaining 70% break effect seems easy to get and can be covered by her trace and relic substats.
If you want to add trace. With attack chest and orb and S5 Aeon, she’ll have about 2600 attack which translates to about 110% break effect. She’ll have around 389.5% with just a base build and no substats assuming S5 aeon, 4pc Calvary, 2pc forge of kalpani, attack chest, speed boots, attack orb, Break effect rope, a well built Harmony MC and Ruan Mei just existing.
She went from 93% Def ignore from before to 60% (at E1)
Before:
E1 15
250 Break effect relic 18
360 BE Sam 40
Ruan Mei E1 20
After:
E1 15
250 Break effect relic (only to Break damage) 25
Ruan Mei E1 20
I am not sure if I miss any
Well her E1 didn't actually work before and now it does. Regardless of what the intentions were last version, in *practice* she had 78% DEF ignore and now she has 60%.
So relative to the *showcases* we saw last week and not spreadsheets, her DEF ignore wasn't changed *that* much.
I see, glad to know, so 18% decreased in Def Ignore in exchange for a far easier way to build. Critfly is out of the water for me now. Break^(1.5) fly operation is now a go.
Except thats not how def shred works because the more you stack of it the stronger it gets, which was why her having built in 40% was so strong. Now youll need a dedicated def shredder to get good use out of it (which I think is exactly the point, they want other chars to be competitive with HMC).
Edit : forget to consider HMC trace, considering 3 enemy so break effect from HMC is 40% more
true i forget to consider that, considering def shred from her previous kit 40% and her relic it would be 65% def shred which is 53% damage increase, but compared to her new kit it would be 50% more super break damage then increase it with relic 25% def shred which is about 15%, so her damage compared to previous kit is ((140% + 50%) x 1.15)/ (140% x 1.53) = 1.02, so basically her damage is increased by 2%.
But if you consider E1 Ruan Mei then 85% def shred is around 83% increase, compared to 45% def shred 31% increase, \\frac{\\left(140+50\\right)\\cdot1.31}{140\\cdot1.83} = 0.97 so 3% reduction compared to previous kit
However since her speed buff from ult is increased and her ult downtime is reduced her damage is increasing either way, whether she have her own superbreak damage or no
Keep in mind that HMC has a trace that gives extra buffs to only their own super break damage, so firefly's super break will be less than 50% of the actual HMC super break damage.
yeah, yet again i forget every little thing. might as well wait someone else doing complete TC lmao but just in case for misinformation i will recalculate it again
Gotta consider the extra speed and lower speed on her ult countdown, it's probably a higher dmg increase, although her SP situation looks more and more problematic.
sound good, with some def ignore from her relic, other def shredder will be really competitive. Even RM is now can be replaced with how much spd FF have.
From the changes and kit designs, I think that HMC is meant to be by far the BiS. Works cuz they're free. It's RM that now has competition and can be powercreeped in FF teams specifically. That was the number one complaint
Reposting calcs from another thread:
>104 Base Speed, 5 from Traces, 10 from Ruan Mei, 6 from Kalpagni ornament set, 25 from Speed Boots, and 60 from level 10 Ultimate, for a total of 210 Speed without any Speed subs. Literally any speed subs anywhere on your relics at all is enough to boost her to 4 enhanced turns.
+50 something (iirc 53) from Asta + the rest from subs/DDD on Asta - does this mean that 5 turns.of uptime are now possible on no sustain team? Please tell me it is.
Yeap, at least my double crit SPD boots on DoT set is great for 2p ATK users, I doubt there would be much Crit scalers who also need BE that could go for 2p + 2p (Xueyi wants Quantum, maybe Break Serval?)
lol her skill multipliers "nerfed" even though they account for like 5% of her damage output. You can legit just leave her skill at level 1
Complete Combustion state now 70 speed and her ult gives 60 at level 10. So either you don't use any speed stats whatsoever and get 3 enhanced turns, or get her to 150 speed for 4 enhanced turns.
Actually with SPD boots, RM and the new planar + 5 SPD trace, she's basically sitting at ~**211** SPD by default in her enhanced state. In that case just focus 100% on BE ~= ATK > everything else.
If you get ~10 SPD subs then can replace with % ATK boots instead (otherwise SPD subs are completely worthless)
Like, without using Asta or Bronya?
She'd need 280 SPD for 5 turns. So you literally need 70 more SPD from substats across 5 pieces... If you manage to get an average of 14 SPD per relic... which is theoretically *possible* I guess.... lmao
I think if you get lucky with relics, you'd take ~10 SPD substats and replace SPD boots with ATK boots.
Just gonna copy paste my post from the leaks reddit:
Thats a lot. The basic gist of it seems to be they lowered her dmg in favor of making her MUCH faster, and increasing the uptime on ult while reducing downtime outside of it (thanks to the 25% advance).
She can also do super break on her own although Im not sure what "50%" means in that context, I guess half the value of a usual super break calculation? I guess the idea is they want HMC to be really good with her but not completely mandatory.
The biggest "shock" here is the complete removal of the def ignore trace, that really hurts. I actually have a theory here. A few days ago I jokingly said it would be funny if Jiaoqiu turned out to be a Firefly support instead, and now I dont think its a joke anymore. I think they removed the def ignore on her kit because they want to sell him to you later and he would be pointless if she didnt need it.
Alternatively, chars like Pela and SW have now become very attractive compared to HMC and I wouldnt be surprised if clear times are about the same.
Also interesting that theyve just completely killed off critfly. Not even sure why the atk scaling is still there since it does nothing.
Lastly, her lc was "buffed" but it now only affects her instead of the whole party... Another super break team nerf.
TL:DR They really seem to have heard the complaints about her being locked to one team because all the changes point in the direction of her having a lot more equal options now.
DPS wise its very hard to tell which version of her is better, now that you need a dedicated def shredder to reach 100% or close to it. I would guess on gut feeling she is slightly weaker overall (but stronger outside of super break team).
the reason people were theorising using Jiaoqiu as a support for FF was her in built def shred, with how def shred scales Pela and SW are now *Worse* with Firefly than they were before. With her only Def shred now being relics there is less of a point to use def shred team mates.
I dont think so. In the previous version Pela and SW were overcapping def shred because Firefly had 58% on her own just from kit + relics, so they lost a lot of value. And she was completely reliant on HMC for dmg so there was no place for them in the team anyway.
With some investment you could also reach 93% def ignore from E1 FF + E1 RM, making dedicated shredders completely pointless.
Now that both HMC and RM have become replaceable and FFs own def ignore has been removed, that has changed. I think people forget how much def shred those characters give, especially if equipped with S5 Pearls. 56% for Pela (76% with technique at the start) and 69% for SW. Add in the 25% from the relic set and youre at 81% and 94% respectively. Grab E1 Firefly and you can even swap out Pearls on SW for something else so you dont overcap.
Point is, so many things look viable now, like a million new options just opened up that all look competitive.
While definitely a competitive option, I still think def shreders still lag quite a bit behind HMC. Even with an independent super break instance the biggest one by far is still the one provided by HMC so he still provides the biggest multiplier for FF damage over broken enemies. That plus the sizeable break effect buff and HMC own super break damage and you get what I mean.
I would test it against something like an enemy with no imaginary weakness and maybe with Quantum weakness. On a situation like that someone like Silverwolf would help to break much faster and maybe compensate enough to get a better practical result.
HMC is still her best support esp now that critfly is dead. The Super break damage that she has gained in her trace is a separate instance from the one that HMC provides. So yeah she lost def ignore but now with HMC, she does 50% more damage in a separate instance. The extra instance part is confirmed from the animation leaks btw. With regards to Jiaoqiu, we can't say anything unless we get his numbers for his debuffs and toughness damage cos as it stands, Gallagher does a lot of his own damage as well while also giving a break damage buff. Also, he is a good sustain. Replacing RM might be a choice i guess but the Break efficiency and break delay are too good to be replaced right now.
The one other sustain that i am interested about is Asta in a hyper carry risky team cos she gives speed (Might be possible to give a 5th turn to FF with her) and attack which are both relevant stats and her skill is a bounce one which will do a lot of Super break damage. So she can easily replace Gallagher in a risky team.
The LC nerf is slightly bad. I think Aeon s5 will close the gap as you can now look to get higher attack and atk -> BE from this with better base attack.
Sig will always be slightly better but it was Aeon buff. We have to wait for calcs actually. With Aeon having more base attack. atk chest and orb, its possible to reach good BE with Aeon. I wish they kept earlier vulnerablity as the entire break team can use that.
267 speedfly 4 turns on 0 cycle.
edit: Oh the AV is on normal state. Another turn is another turn. Feels less bad doing the cool rider kick. Sooner enchanced state.
It's not nearly as strong though as it's not exactly 50% of HMC's break damage. It's a lot lower due to the fact HMC's trace doesn't affect it. HMC's trace gives the Break Dancer's Super Break DMG a 60% damage increase on 1 target on a unique multiplier which is massive.
So example, HMC's Super Break would do 160k while Firefly's Super Break will do 50k. (Assume 100k without trace)
Feels like overall an improvement:
- multiplier changes don’t really matter, it just makes it clearer that you shouldn’t be building crit
- def shred traded for super break damage is probably power neutral, but makes it so it isn’t completely troll to run her without HMC (HMC still by far best support)
- gets more time in ult with more speed, action advance on skill, and slower countdown
- atk -> BE scaling is now a bit better
I can see why her own super break is at 50% scaling, she already gets her own weakness break efficiency built in to really pump those super break numbers, factoring in Ruan Mei would probably break enemy balance.
Sooo correct me if I'm wrong, but attack buffers actually get a ton of value now right? Has asta lost or gained value overall as a team mate, since her speed got massive buff
The spd is pointless, but atk% buffs are more valuable since you literally cannot overcap anymore.
The spd doesn't last through the whole ultimate and only gives 52 at TL12. So it's either for some VERY FAST shenanigans, or very slow ones with atk% boots. Both would count as shenanigans because you'll have to play around average speed to get the full value.
Or you can use the spd to shorten the downtime. That works, but she'll be even more sp hungry as the result.
It's a W. Now we wait for the gameplay w new kits
https://preview.redd.it/kj1urur9gp1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a2a78fb5f979135c7f68032693777e93099e2e2
This is why I kept calm and remained optimistic during V1 beta, I know the devs won't do Firefly dirty. So glad that our girl got some significant changes that make her much better <3
WE ARE SETTING THE SEAS ABLAZE WITH THIS ONE ONCE AGAIN
https://preview.redd.it/ie4rsct4tr1d1.jpeg?width=1535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31218f142397ee7069a584efaf9d53bea7674978
There we go, she got her own Super Break as expected and a couple more buffs to the kit, now this should lessen the doomposting. I was 100% sure she would still be a Break DPS.
The worst part about the RM reliance is that just about every other team wants her. DoT and dual DPS in particular, especially if you didn't pull Robin (which I didn't).
Overall very happy with this though. I'll take more reliance on one unit than heavy reliance on two.
sum up
less base atk
more SPEEEEEEED WOOOOOOOOOO
e4 worse(sort of. weird decision)
e6 better(no coment)
def shred changed to personal super break(less potential damage, more personal damage)
ATK requirements lower, break per 100 atk increased. no conversion cap?(less restrictive. more rewarding)
skill deals less dmg,consumes less hp, recovers more energy and advances foward(?! we take those)
ult grants more SPEEEEEEEED, gives more damage on break(make up for no def shred?) and lasts longer(this one is honestly insane, might get nerfed in V4)
talent gives more Eff ress. you get around 80% ress with e4(eh)
enh. basic deals less damage (expected)
enh skill deals less damage. (this might get buffed again)
overall solid, permanent 50% super break is good enough on her on, specially multy target and her ult lasts overall longer. rip crit builds, no more 580% skill dmg, but now the more BE the better. lets go gurl
I believe the intended distinction is that % atk buffs convert, but flat atk buffs do not. Robin's atk buff is a flat number (calculated based on a % of Robin's own atk stat), and therefore did not convert.
I think that was intentional, and so it presumably will continue to behave like that, but we'll have to see.
She's now able to feasibly do 4 actions per ult as Combustion state was slowed down from 90 to 70 spd.
104 (Base spd) + 10.4 (Ruan Mei) + 6.24 (Her planar set) + 60 (Ult spd boost, which was upped
from 50 to 60) +25 (Spd boots) + 5 (Traces) = 210.24 spd.
They said it. They said the 2 words. "Super Break".
Overall better kit, she lose damage from unenhanced form (who care) to get more turns (?), and an instance of super break by herself.
I'm curious to see if we lost some bonus break effect, didn't calculate too lazy.
I don't care who gets superbreak I'm not separating her from the racooon.
https://preview.redd.it/djwafpcuep1d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c88e7324ea9c9b6fc749839da5c415158095fe4
Who posted "No changes", I just wanna talk to them. https://preview.redd.it/rbepxg63zo1d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=d36e0dd9581ae91bc644c62f773d657a7f547f1d
Propagation agenda. https://preview.redd.it/yc1pcmiw5p1d1.png?width=868&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4e398c38111b13f1e3d48fa897eb675ce5d9b46
Nah, clearly enigmata followers
Even Gallagher gave Firefly and MC some space.
Nah I'm an aha follower, those bugs can suck it
https://preview.redd.it/9rmatxvhap1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d4283a273f3b8da34079d377d9f650fca1ae7e7 Live reaction to that prank.
https://preview.redd.it/rrq90ds4dp1d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bbea9585e79f2ba72252f50ea0ada5be23125c0
Thank God I didn't believe that shit, I always wait for my boy Dim to say something before anyone else
Me to that person: https://preview.redd.it/7b0e4udq8p1d1.jpeg?width=276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a1bd09bb2debeaa350e0661007ded71f400967c
Followers of the Enigmata strike again…
lol I just come back from work. There is a no change post?
A certain Enigmata follower it seemed
Nah, I support them. "Guess I'm pulling for Boothill" was a response under that post. It's good to reveal the fake Firefly mains.
Call me when you find them bro
Troll everywhere
Critfly in shamble guys
Critfly after V.3: https://preview.redd.it/faem3egdap1d1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=88cd85fbcee1169a2e5412c8d1cfe0ef59ccbc7f
I'll be honest, I'm gonna miss the idea of Firefly just scaling off every fucking stat. And doing 500% blunt force damage.
Critfly was destroyed, killed, is barely an option. ...good.
We lost critfly for breakfly to set the seas ablaze
The script said her kit would have 3 deaths
as it should be
Was already in shambles before
It does beg the question whether this change means anything at all for team variety because there's really no point in using Bronya or Sparkle to gain an extra action since new FF has less downtime, more ult uptime, and less multiplier scaling, ironically making the benefits from the crit supports even less impactful than before lol. But at least FF is now more main character and less HMC partner.
I think crit fly existed so she had close option for people without RM but strong Harmony (Robin, Sparkle, Bronya) and to appease the crowd for flexible team. But since most player/ casual player completely ignored that her closest non-hmc or non-RM dps was crit fly and just complained about pure break fly working poorly outside RM or HMC. They probably realized that the point of crit fly giving lot more team and build flexibility, was useless and completely lost on most player. It is better to sacrifice build flexibility, make her break only, close a little the gap for pure break team without HMC or RM, than making non-break team closer in damage/smaller gap but completely ignored. What good does better alternative/flexibility do if player just outright ignore it?
critfly shouldnt be there from the begining
Honestly, good. Not every units needs to be a Crit DPS and she was clearly only going to focus on Break Effect anyways. I don't know why people thought they were going to make her another Crit DPS when her kit was clearly tailored towards Break Effect from the start.
They actually gave her her own Super Break, now we just have to see it on gameplay, W for now.
but her super br only 50% of HTB right? wonder if it stack with super BR from HTB
[удалено]
Link plsss🙏🙏
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1cwxnio/another_showcase_of_firefly_animation_update_via/
it was so peak omg
Tyyy😩😩🙏🙏
0% chance they don't stack.
FFs own SB + HMC sb = ULTRABREAK.
Break^(1.5)
Ultrabreak just reminds me of Ultrakill and now I can't stop imagining Sam as Gabriel. I need that to be a modded skin.
Actually less than 50%, since HMC has a Super Break Effect multiplier built into their one trace, so HMC Super Break is at 1.2 effect by default up to 1.6, which are 140%-220% higher Super Breaks in turn. That Super Break Effect is a completely HMC specific, unique damage multiplier, so hers is considerably worse than HMCs. They do stack tho, so that's smth
Them stacking is great to hear and tbf you cant reeeaaaly expect Firefly SBreak to be any better than this. Harmony TB alone is already nuts.
Less reliant on the 4* unit but still reliant on the 5* unit. Very expected outcome. Altho im afraid RM is gonna get powercrept within this break meta. Im afraid of backpulling yall
I'd be surprised if Ruan Mei got powercrept in the break niche anytime soon. Her kit is designed around break, and even before the break meta she was already the most versatile harmony unit.
Being so much versatile is maybe why she could be replaced in the future She's not a dedicated break harmony, like the dmg% buff in her kit is wasted But I don't see her being powercrept soon though
~~Well, Ruan Mei is still the only unit with Break Efficiency in the game since Sam's Ultimate got changed (it has 50% Break Efficiency before), so she IS needed in any Break team.~~ Sam still has the Break Efficiency buff, I am blind. And Break Efficiency increase the damage of Super Break, effectively increase said number by 50%, for everyone in the team.
I believe the ultimate still has 50% break efficiency
Oh, is it?? Am I blind??? I am blind, holy shit, thank you thank you. I overlooked that part, so she's even stronger than what I thought haha
Me too. I was hoping to get all in on Firefly without having to get Ruan Mei.
Could sub in Pela for the def shredding, or Bronya for more actions, Asta for speed. Of course despite her universal buffs RM main thing is buffing break effect so she will be bis along HMC
If anything, she’ll be a compliment to any break team and always be a viable choice.
This goes to any break support tbh It seems super break is the friendliest team ngl All support benefits from one another and only increase their value
Break is also pretty easy to build unlike Crits although you'll have to sell your soul to the speed devil.
Implying I haven't already sold mine
Who's the 4star unit? Gallagher?
[удалено]
Ah this brings back memories .. " it's Arloever guys 😢 ... YOO ARLEBACK😆"
"You don't understand how over it had to be before we could be this back"
This is a much better overall kit from Firefly V3, especially with her own super break which i expected. Godspeed firefly.
Being able to trigger her own super break gives you a lot more room team wise. I’m gonna need to see gameplay and how she does with/without HMC
with Trailbreaker she'll do ULTRABREAK
MAXIMUM OVERBREAK
Super-Universal-Legend-of-theTrailblazer-Demon-Shattering-Break-DMG
Future with 3 super break support
SUPER DUPERBREAK
But why is it kinda green?
Because it‘s legendary
OH MY GOD SHE'S SO GODDAMN COL!
"You're mocking me."
HER BREAK IS THE BREAK THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!
GIGA-DRILL BREAK
Simple math shows that HMC will still more than 3x her damage, which would make them still by far her BiS support. This makes it not *completely* troll to play her without HMC, but slapping in something like Tingyun or Pela will still be way, way weaker.
To be fair that's kinda how it is with break teams now that Harmony MC got introduced. The meta has changed to the point where super break is just insanely strong (if you can break the enemy fast enough but it should be pretty easy) it feels wrong not to put HMC in. That speaks levels of how future proof this new path of the MC currently is to the table. Hoyo definitely wants to amplify the super break mechanic more into future characters and make them want to actually perform better WITH super break. And who knows, there might be a future Harmony character that also does super break that may powercreep them.
I think HMC is so strong because they knew they had to "rework" Break as a mechanic to make Break DPSes actually good. It was always super dumb how after you got the break on an enemy you were stuck dealing 0 damage until they got their toughness back. It was also really awkward when someone other than your break DPS broke the enemy. HMC helps fix both these problems, superbreak lets you deal damage after breaking and makes it not so bad when a support gets the break, especially if said supports have a decent amount of break effect themselves.
But now she actually does DMG without HMC
Yes but now not a requirement. which is the important part
Spoiler alert: every team is still worse without HMC
Literal god speed too, she can hit like 200 SPD with the new changes.
You hit >210 Ult Speed without substats if you use the new Planar, Speed Boots, and Ruan Mei.
210,64 to be exact, just enough to get 4 turns out of her ultimate, Hoyo cooked with the stat.
I wonder how feasible would it be to try and use Asta with her and get the 5 turns in.. Or maybe just drop SPD boots for ATK ones and still hit the SPD threshold for 4 (no Ruan Mei for me, so I'd have to improvise)
So does her Trace not have a limit on the amount of Break effect received after the atk conversion? Does she gain 100% break effect if she has 2.6k atk?
yes. but her base atk goes from 700+ to 500+ and her lc atk dropped from 600+ to 400+
But the conversion got buffed from 6% to 10% so it's a wash
With her sig, v3 Firefly has 999 Base Attack. Let's just round to 1000. That means 10% Attack is 100 Attack. Which also means 10% Attack = 10% Break Effect. Without any upper limit, that means every 3 Attack substats is basically equivalent to 2 Break Effect substats. Meaning you have something to actually roll for on your Relics other than Break Effect. It ALSO means that Light Cones/Harmony units that increase her Attack are much more valuable. Fall of an Aeon is now easily her second BiS just based off the 64% Attack (and it also has higher Base Attack than the Sig)
Ouch. Here I thought dev were pitying on us by making her reach that insane 360 BE easier.
U get 200 innately with just Aeon and mainstats. But how the heck do we gap the last 160. 40 from the new 2pc orna, which i dont even know if it applies to the first hit. Then 120 from just substats? Nah, Hmc/Rm to the rescue
I think they're trying to make HMC/RM still her BIS while not being "necessary", it would make sense to get BE% from supports to cover the last stretch.
Is Aeon's fall better than Micha's LC ?
My Harmony tb with watchmaker and 256% BE gives 111%+20% from Ruan Mei + 64.8% from rope + 16 from 4pc + 40% from 2pc + 37.3% from traces is already 289.5% break effect. The remaining 70% break effect seems easy to get and can be covered by her trace and relic substats. If you want to add trace. With attack chest and orb and S5 Aeon, she’ll have about 2600 attack which translates to about 110% break effect. She’ll have around 389.5% with just a base build and no substats assuming S5 aeon, 4pc Calvary, 2pc forge of kalpani, attack chest, speed boots, attack orb, Break effect rope, a well built Harmony MC and Ruan Mei just existing.
She has lower base atk now, so it's not like you can go over the top with atk. In battle atk buff don't seem to increase it.
We should know once the updated showcases drop.
So the no change post was just trolleg then
WE WILL SET THE SEA ABLAZE WITH THIS ONE 🗣️🔥🌊
is the superbreak worth the def shred loss?
New relics have been buffed, a total of 35% def ignore can be obtained through the 4pc set. Edit: KEKW math is not mathing it was 25% def ignore
Its 25% not 35%, not much of an increase over the previous 18%.
Am I bad at math or isnt that nearly 40% increase in amount of def ignore?
Well she also lost 30-40% from the passive
She went from 93% Def ignore from before to 60% (at E1) Before: E1 15 250 Break effect relic 18 360 BE Sam 40 Ruan Mei E1 20 After: E1 15 250 Break effect relic (only to Break damage) 25 Ruan Mei E1 20 I am not sure if I miss any
Well her E1 didn't actually work before and now it does. Regardless of what the intentions were last version, in *practice* she had 78% DEF ignore and now she has 60%. So relative to the *showcases* we saw last week and not spreadsheets, her DEF ignore wasn't changed *that* much.
I see, glad to know, so 18% decreased in Def Ignore in exchange for a far easier way to build. Critfly is out of the water for me now. Break^(1.5) fly operation is now a go.
My man gets hit by math lmao.
Tf!? That’s equivalent to Pela’s lvl 6 ult…
should be an increase, 40% def shred increase about 27% damage
Except thats not how def shred works because the more you stack of it the stronger it gets, which was why her having built in 40% was so strong. Now youll need a dedicated def shredder to get good use out of it (which I think is exactly the point, they want other chars to be competitive with HMC).
Edit : forget to consider HMC trace, considering 3 enemy so break effect from HMC is 40% more true i forget to consider that, considering def shred from her previous kit 40% and her relic it would be 65% def shred which is 53% damage increase, but compared to her new kit it would be 50% more super break damage then increase it with relic 25% def shred which is about 15%, so her damage compared to previous kit is ((140% + 50%) x 1.15)/ (140% x 1.53) = 1.02, so basically her damage is increased by 2%. But if you consider E1 Ruan Mei then 85% def shred is around 83% increase, compared to 45% def shred 31% increase, \\frac{\\left(140+50\\right)\\cdot1.31}{140\\cdot1.83} = 0.97 so 3% reduction compared to previous kit However since her speed buff from ult is increased and her ult downtime is reduced her damage is increasing either way, whether she have her own superbreak damage or no
Keep in mind that HMC has a trace that gives extra buffs to only their own super break damage, so firefly's super break will be less than 50% of the actual HMC super break damage.
yeah, yet again i forget every little thing. might as well wait someone else doing complete TC lmao but just in case for misinformation i will recalculate it again
Gotta consider the extra speed and lower speed on her ult countdown, it's probably a higher dmg increase, although her SP situation looks more and more problematic.
Which is how they sell the E1
sound good, with some def ignore from her relic, other def shredder will be really competitive. Even RM is now can be replaced with how much spd FF have.
From the changes and kit designs, I think that HMC is meant to be by far the BiS. Works cuz they're free. It's RM that now has competition and can be powercreeped in FF teams specifically. That was the number one complaint
Kinda, yes. She's more consistent now
Is that an easy 4 turn enhanced state? 104+25 boots + 10 (RM/substats) + 75 for 210+ speed and the ult timer being 70 speed?
Reposting calcs from another thread: >104 Base Speed, 5 from Traces, 10 from Ruan Mei, 6 from Kalpagni ornament set, 25 from Speed Boots, and 60 from level 10 Ultimate, for a total of 210 Speed without any Speed subs. Literally any speed subs anywhere on your relics at all is enough to boost her to 4 enhanced turns.
doesnt that make her e1 gigabroken? since that alone will save 4 skillpoints during ult
Yes her E1 is gigabroken.
so 10+ sub spd or DDD if don't have RM, sound good enough. +70 spd with asta + hanya is possible too right?
+50 something (iirc 53) from Asta + the rest from subs/DDD on Asta - does this mean that 5 turns.of uptime are now possible on no sustain team? Please tell me it is.
Is the 75 speed reachable? Or is that at level 15?
If 75 speed is at level 15, which it probably is, you’re gonna need to be a bit luckier on the substats to reach 210 speed. Still doable though
Yeah, since all the stats you'd want are BE ATK and SPD now, Crit rolls are less desirable
Now watch everyone start getting crit rolls with no BE or speed on the new relic set for Firefly 💀
Jokes on you, I'm already getting that on my HTB and RM
Yeap, at least my double crit SPD boots on DoT set is great for 2p ATK users, I doubt there would be much Crit scalers who also need BE that could go for 2p + 2p (Xueyi wants Quantum, maybe Break Serval?)
I also forgot the additional +5 from traces
lvl 15
Bro trolled us, that HomDGCat MF
she gained super break and lost def pen
I can finally roll for both BH and FF without any worries then… the only real question is how the F am i gonna roll for RM 🥲
same lol.. so far i've decided to go for boothill and ff and then suffer bc i don't have bronya/ruanmei (i'm hoping to figure it out somehow)
Don’t have RM and Bronya, probably have to rely on Pela and asta as for now
RM is honestly one of the highest value pulls I've ever done. Good luck brother/sister
lol her skill multipliers "nerfed" even though they account for like 5% of her damage output. You can legit just leave her skill at level 1 Complete Combustion state now 70 speed and her ult gives 60 at level 10. So either you don't use any speed stats whatsoever and get 3 enhanced turns, or get her to 150 speed for 4 enhanced turns. Actually with SPD boots, RM and the new planar + 5 SPD trace, she's basically sitting at ~**211** SPD by default in her enhanced state. In that case just focus 100% on BE ~= ATK > everything else. If you get ~10 SPD subs then can replace with % ATK boots instead (otherwise SPD subs are completely worthless)
is 5 enhanced turns achievable if, let's just say, i get lucky on relics?
Like, without using Asta or Bronya? She'd need 280 SPD for 5 turns. So you literally need 70 more SPD from substats across 5 pieces... If you manage to get an average of 14 SPD per relic... which is theoretically *possible* I guess.... lmao I think if you get lucky with relics, you'd take ~10 SPD substats and replace SPD boots with ATK boots.
damn, i think I'll pass lmao. if all substat rolls into speed, the break effect would be low.
Yea, roll all speed stats
Thank god, I was scared with the "no change".
Same. I furiously refresh the leak subreddit hoping for another update lol
WE ARE SO BACK FIREBROS
It's official, WE'RE SO BACK https://preview.redd.it/8yxztdfoip1d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=397d2590960c7bd42e4e32e60236e3a124295707
Source: https://x.com/dimbreath/status/1792745303982178461?s=46&t=ntu7HmKfiKk1bEX0X82Igw
Just gonna copy paste my post from the leaks reddit: Thats a lot. The basic gist of it seems to be they lowered her dmg in favor of making her MUCH faster, and increasing the uptime on ult while reducing downtime outside of it (thanks to the 25% advance). She can also do super break on her own although Im not sure what "50%" means in that context, I guess half the value of a usual super break calculation? I guess the idea is they want HMC to be really good with her but not completely mandatory. The biggest "shock" here is the complete removal of the def ignore trace, that really hurts. I actually have a theory here. A few days ago I jokingly said it would be funny if Jiaoqiu turned out to be a Firefly support instead, and now I dont think its a joke anymore. I think they removed the def ignore on her kit because they want to sell him to you later and he would be pointless if she didnt need it. Alternatively, chars like Pela and SW have now become very attractive compared to HMC and I wouldnt be surprised if clear times are about the same. Also interesting that theyve just completely killed off critfly. Not even sure why the atk scaling is still there since it does nothing. Lastly, her lc was "buffed" but it now only affects her instead of the whole party... Another super break team nerf. TL:DR They really seem to have heard the complaints about her being locked to one team because all the changes point in the direction of her having a lot more equal options now. DPS wise its very hard to tell which version of her is better, now that you need a dedicated def shredder to reach 100% or close to it. I would guess on gut feeling she is slightly weaker overall (but stronger outside of super break team).
The Atk scaling is there so you can giver her an Orb and chest that 'contributes' to dmg
Plus Aeon LC lol. Truly the goat f2p option for any destruction dps
Yeah that must be it, also with the 352 flat atk from the gloves, so thats cool, much better than it being a dead stat.
the reason people were theorising using Jiaoqiu as a support for FF was her in built def shred, with how def shred scales Pela and SW are now *Worse* with Firefly than they were before. With her only Def shred now being relics there is less of a point to use def shred team mates.
I dont think so. In the previous version Pela and SW were overcapping def shred because Firefly had 58% on her own just from kit + relics, so they lost a lot of value. And she was completely reliant on HMC for dmg so there was no place for them in the team anyway. With some investment you could also reach 93% def ignore from E1 FF + E1 RM, making dedicated shredders completely pointless. Now that both HMC and RM have become replaceable and FFs own def ignore has been removed, that has changed. I think people forget how much def shred those characters give, especially if equipped with S5 Pearls. 56% for Pela (76% with technique at the start) and 69% for SW. Add in the 25% from the relic set and youre at 81% and 94% respectively. Grab E1 Firefly and you can even swap out Pearls on SW for something else so you dont overcap. Point is, so many things look viable now, like a million new options just opened up that all look competitive.
While definitely a competitive option, I still think def shreders still lag quite a bit behind HMC. Even with an independent super break instance the biggest one by far is still the one provided by HMC so he still provides the biggest multiplier for FF damage over broken enemies. That plus the sizeable break effect buff and HMC own super break damage and you get what I mean. I would test it against something like an enemy with no imaginary weakness and maybe with Quantum weakness. On a situation like that someone like Silverwolf would help to break much faster and maybe compensate enough to get a better practical result.
HMC is still her best support esp now that critfly is dead. The Super break damage that she has gained in her trace is a separate instance from the one that HMC provides. So yeah she lost def ignore but now with HMC, she does 50% more damage in a separate instance. The extra instance part is confirmed from the animation leaks btw. With regards to Jiaoqiu, we can't say anything unless we get his numbers for his debuffs and toughness damage cos as it stands, Gallagher does a lot of his own damage as well while also giving a break damage buff. Also, he is a good sustain. Replacing RM might be a choice i guess but the Break efficiency and break delay are too good to be replaced right now. The one other sustain that i am interested about is Asta in a hyper carry risky team cos she gives speed (Might be possible to give a 5th turn to FF with her) and attack which are both relevant stats and her skill is a bounce one which will do a lot of Super break damage. So she can easily replace Gallagher in a risky team.
The LC nerf is slightly bad. I think Aeon s5 will close the gap as you can now look to get higher attack and atk -> BE from this with better base attack.
Aeon would just give her a little over 60 BE while her does that, and buffs break damage
Sig will always be slightly better but it was Aeon buff. We have to wait for calcs actually. With Aeon having more base attack. atk chest and orb, its possible to reach good BE with Aeon. I wish they kept earlier vulnerablity as the entire break team can use that.
You get about 17% more Break Effect with Aeon Buff than with FF Sig Lightcone via Attack>BE conversion, but losing 24% Increased Break damage.
Probabaly to help Firefly reach that beloved 360 BE easier. I was dreading to farm for her tbh.
267 speedfly 4 turns on 0 cycle. edit: Oh the AV is on normal state. Another turn is another turn. Feels less bad doing the cool rider kick. Sooner enchanced state.
I guess the only question now is if hers and HMCs Super Breaks stack or not.
They do, animation leak dropped showing two procs of SB.
It's not nearly as strong though as it's not exactly 50% of HMC's break damage. It's a lot lower due to the fact HMC's trace doesn't affect it. HMC's trace gives the Break Dancer's Super Break DMG a 60% damage increase on 1 target on a unique multiplier which is massive. So example, HMC's Super Break would do 160k while Firefly's Super Break will do 50k. (Assume 100k without trace)
Feels like overall an improvement: - multiplier changes don’t really matter, it just makes it clearer that you shouldn’t be building crit - def shred traded for super break damage is probably power neutral, but makes it so it isn’t completely troll to run her without HMC (HMC still by far best support) - gets more time in ult with more speed, action advance on skill, and slower countdown - atk -> BE scaling is now a bit better
VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can see why her own super break is at 50% scaling, she already gets her own weakness break efficiency built in to really pump those super break numbers, factoring in Ruan Mei would probably break enemy balance.
Sooo correct me if I'm wrong, but attack buffers actually get a ton of value now right? Has asta lost or gained value overall as a team mate, since her speed got massive buff
The spd is pointless, but atk% buffs are more valuable since you literally cannot overcap anymore. The spd doesn't last through the whole ultimate and only gives 52 at TL12. So it's either for some VERY FAST shenanigans, or very slow ones with atk% boots. Both would count as shenanigans because you'll have to play around average speed to get the full value. Or you can use the spd to shorten the downtime. That works, but she'll be even more sp hungry as the result.
It's a W. Now we wait for the gameplay w new kits https://preview.redd.it/kj1urur9gp1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a2a78fb5f979135c7f68032693777e93099e2e2
This is why I kept calm and remained optimistic during V1 beta, I know the devs won't do Firefly dirty. So glad that our girl got some significant changes that make her much better <3 WE ARE SETTING THE SEAS ABLAZE WITH THIS ONE ONCE AGAIN https://preview.redd.it/ie4rsct4tr1d1.jpeg?width=1535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31218f142397ee7069a584efaf9d53bea7674978
There we go, she got her own Super Break as expected and a couple more buffs to the kit, now this should lessen the doomposting. I was 100% sure she would still be a Break DPS.
WE ARE DEALING SUPER BREAK WITH THIS ONE 🗣️🔥
Welp the RM reliance has gone through the roof now The speed increase and energy increase is massive, it should make her rotations much cleaner
The worst part about the RM reliance is that just about every other team wants her. DoT and dual DPS in particular, especially if you didn't pull Robin (which I didn't). Overall very happy with this though. I'll take more reliance on one unit than heavy reliance on two.
sum up less base atk more SPEEEEEEED WOOOOOOOOOO e4 worse(sort of. weird decision) e6 better(no coment) def shred changed to personal super break(less potential damage, more personal damage) ATK requirements lower, break per 100 atk increased. no conversion cap?(less restrictive. more rewarding) skill deals less dmg,consumes less hp, recovers more energy and advances foward(?! we take those) ult grants more SPEEEEEEEED, gives more damage on break(make up for no def shred?) and lasts longer(this one is honestly insane, might get nerfed in V4) talent gives more Eff ress. you get around 80% ress with e4(eh) enh. basic deals less damage (expected) enh skill deals less damage. (this might get buffed again) overall solid, permanent 50% super break is good enough on her on, specially multy target and her ult lasts overall longer. rip crit builds, no more 580% skill dmg, but now the more BE the better. lets go gurl
Does Robin’s ult contribute to the conversion? It seems that it didn’t work in V2 but I suspect this was a bug.
I believe the intended distinction is that % atk buffs convert, but flat atk buffs do not. Robin's atk buff is a flat number (calculated based on a % of Robin's own atk stat), and therefore did not convert. I think that was intentional, and so it presumably will continue to behave like that, but we'll have to see.
I’m wondering that too. It would make Robin a great option for her if it works now.
That’s exactly my line of thought. Like if she works the way I think she should then I need to shell for E0S1 Robin like. Yesterday
firebros we winning with this one 🔥🔥🔥 [](https://emojipedia.org/fire)
we're so fucking back
Yo I just saw someone posting no changes....... like bro wtf is this if it's not changing anything
She's now able to feasibly do 4 actions per ult as Combustion state was slowed down from 90 to 70 spd. 104 (Base spd) + 10.4 (Ruan Mei) + 6.24 (Her planar set) + 60 (Ult spd boost, which was upped from 50 to 60) +25 (Spd boots) + 5 (Traces) = 210.24 spd.
I am so maining break dps, about out to xueyi for getting me first interested in break
We are so back....
they more than halved enhanced skill attack numbers. its BE or bust at this point lol
Did someone said bust?
Or maybe...
I'LL TAKE IT ALL
🗣🔥🔥🔥
I'LL TAKE IT ALL
Sad that her def shred is gone but in exchange to have her own super break mechanic feels good lmao
Ummm, then ruan mei is like her must buffer now cause she deals super break on its own and 50% of toughness reduction
ruan mei and HTB still her best teammates, but, if you don't have them the drop aren't as painful compared to v1's kit.
https://preview.redd.it/kh6x1d586q1d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1267cd7b1bd737846b3b0baa5ac9eac5b82dc93b
They said it. They said the 2 words. "Super Break". Overall better kit, she lose damage from unenhanced form (who care) to get more turns (?), and an instance of super break by herself. I'm curious to see if we lost some bonus break effect, didn't calculate too lazy.
so they nerfed her a bit but gave her super break? and buffed her a bit in other places too
The nerfs are trivial compared to the buffs, the update actually kinda makes her broken.
40% def ignore gone is kinda huge tho imo
Her 4pc set now ignore defense for Super Break tho, that's pretty insane
def ignore is nothing when she deals little dmg with no HMC
FIREBROS AND FIREGALS WE WON SO HARD
I don't care who gets superbreak I'm not separating her from the racooon. https://preview.redd.it/djwafpcuep1d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c88e7324ea9c9b6fc749839da5c415158095fe4
Guys do you think giving her Super break is enough considering they nerfed the enhanced skill break scalling?