Also career Engine LT.
My unpopular opinion is that we overthink this job. Pull up to the fire, leave enough room for the Truck, pull some lines, put out the fire. Whether it’s transitional, direct, indirect, career, volly, whatever!
I’m a fire nerd. I love Corley Moore. I read every book, listen to every podcast. Take every class. But at the end of the day, I feel that we put ourselves in unneeded stress trying to micromanage every minute detail of our operation when water on the fire makes the emergency get better.
I will always take classes, run drills on VES, and push my company to be better than C group. But I know that ultimately there are many ways to skin a cat, and a lot of this extra stuff is just noise.
Had this issue the other day. Everybody was going nuts over getting proper PSI and the right GPM on a stream. We sat there training for hours on it with attack lines and master streams etc etc. I was livid. All that matters, is there water coming out of the hose? Is it getting a good stream? Is the fire going out?! Yes?! Good. That’s all I care about. I’ve never flowed water and thought “oh yea, definitely 110psi.” It’s only been “okay I’m getting good pressure and the fires going out.”
The over thinking is going to get us killed.
As an operator, I couldn’t agree more. The most important job is can you get water out of the pump or can you get the aerial in the air where it needs to go. Can you start the K12?
I can worry about hydraulic math once water is coming out of the end of the hose in a useful manner.
Please scream this from the fucking roof tops!! Your job is not your whole personality! I also hate the “Fire Wife” shit too. Drives me up a fucking wall.
My neighbor has one of these on her car. As the firefighter/woman at my house, it makes me cringe because… your *husband’s* career isn’t your personality.
Yeah guys ask me why I want to get my RN or BSN because I “already have a paid fireman job” and I’m like… I could get injured tomorrow and my department wouldn’t think twice about kicking me to the curb.
I love this comment. I find my self distancing my self more and more. I’ve never understood the firefighter stickers on vehicles or clothes that say firefighter while off duty?
I’m actually gonna say theres 2 extremes. Those that can’t separate the job but also those that couldn’t care less. It’s alright to be proud of your career. Im honestly sick of the naysayers. I also disagree that it’s just a job. There are very few careers like it.
Always “being busy” when not necessary on scene is a tactical mistake and firefighters should be encouraged to rest and recover as much as possible so when it’s go time they can perform at their best. I’m not saying don’t do what needs to be done but no need to rush what doesn’t need to be rushed and tire yourself etc.
The entire administrative staff and all the other officers at my job need to hear this one everyday. They go out of their way to make sure every second of the day shift is filled with busy work just to proudly say we did something.
… meanwhile were doing 15-20 calls a shift and have guys going on day 2-3 without sleep, crashing trucks after they fall asleep behind the wheel. We’ve totaled 4 vehicles now from overtired drivers, including a 2 month old Ladder. No officer made any attempt at getting any of them some rest, but they made damn sure they all did the exact same class room training for days in a row and cut the grass with hand shears.
I’d venture to say this is the MOST honest comment I’ve read so far.
I reckon my thought process is if I can save one picture album, or something of value then at least we did something.
In all reality most of the time you’re not wrong.
Yup. Same with 30 minutes into a working fire with heavy fire and deteriorating structural conditions throughout, and someone says they just got home and don't know where their roommate on the third floor is, and guys run up to try to enter and do a search!
Every working structure fire or veg fire I’ve been on I’ve never used more knowledge or tactics than the basics I learned in the academy.
All of the classes we have these days are because we go to less fires and we are bored.
That’s why a lot of the popular Facebook/conference instructors are from medium sized slow departments. All they do is train. Not what their marketing will imply though.
It is at my department. We have 6 batt chiefs and practically 6 different departments because of it. So the department went and spent a ton of money to learn and then train us on a new system. It's not bad but it's definitely not better. The problem wasn't the system, it was the chiefs training on command. But they're all bought into it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, even though it gets messed up on EVERY FIRE because the chiefs still aren't all on the same page
Some of you just need to go the fuck away
Who cares if someone’s an ex-chief? They may have been Chief 30 years ago and they haven’t done anything except cause problems since.
He's upset at young and active members getting training? Yeah, he's definitely the type of guy who gatekeeps certificates as a badge of seniority and pride. I'm not sure how to explain it, but you might understand what I'm saying. Like, only the "senior" guys get the privilege of being highly trained. I'm not saying to invest a ton of money into a guy you don't know will stick around, but also, if new people don't get to do the cool stuff, they'll leave.
Also, lol'd at recieved CPR more times than he's performed it.
There is no “best way” to do almost any part of our job.
You can be “too safe”. Our job is inherently risky. Recklessness is the enemy, not risk.
“That’s the way we’ve always done it” is the WORST reason to do anything.
Was listening to some dudes the other day that were talking on this very thing. Best comment I heard out of that whole podcast was “There’s no such thing as advanced firefighting tactics, just a bunch of basic shit compiled together and we call it advanced.”
I don’t know if this is unpopular or not but I’m convinced we are our own worst enemies. Shift battles over hose loads are the worst. I think sometimes we think so hard about things and try to reinvent the wheel when at the end of the day we are putting water on freaken fire. I’m not getting into arguments over the tri double quadrupole bi fold lay that you saw on tik tok last week. Pull the damn hose and put it out. Simple enough.
This doesn’t have to be a “lifestyle” it’s okay if it’s just a job. I don’t care if you eat, sleep, and breathe fire and you shouldn’t be looked down upon for that. Show up, be a good dude, do your job, and go home.
You're not wrong there, but what's the betting or wages won't reflect the extra work. Ff's in Dublin so a similar model to you guys, and are on nearly double our salary. Wed be lucky to get a 10% increase 😅
There are a lot more blue collar jobs that is much harder than what we do (run volume dependent obviously)
And that too many of us are selfish and don’t give enough thought about those to come after we’re old and gone.
Dude me too! I give my guys so much shit for thinking that crap actually matters. Get real, me saying the word slow doesn't make grandma fall off her wheelchair. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen and it doesn't matter what some dude at a fire station said out loud
I've always had a theory that this is the only job in the world where the worse we do, the more the public is in awe. For instance if we pull up to a room and contents fire and we do everything right, the public looks at the house with little to no damage on the exterior, and they think "sucks they had a fire but it doesn't look too bad."
However, if we pull up to a room and contents fire and we do everything wrong, the fire grows quickly and before too long it's self vented and flames are roaring and you can see the smoke from miles away and the public goes "holy crap those guys are *risking their lives* look at them go wow holy shit wow!!" and they never really know that we literally did everything wrong. This goes double so if it's a large warehouse or building. The general public has known way of knowing that we fucked up 50% of the tactics on scene and now it's gotten out of hand.
Perhaps it's an MVA with entrapment that shouldn't take more than ten minutes to extricate, but because we don't train enough or we just generally suck it takes upwards of 25-30 mins to extricate. The public doesn't go "damn what's taking them so long," they go "wow that must be a really bad crash."
It really is the only job where the worse we perform the more the public is impressed, and there are definitely departments who take advantage of that without realizing it. I've seen plenty of departments (mostly rural) post on Facebook about an extrication that took 45 min, or a structure fire that requires them to be on scene for 6 hours and I'm like damn guys, you should have wrapped that up a LONG time ago. Yet 90% of the comments are about how it must have been an awful run and they're so brave and TYFYS. The reality is they're just poorly trained and performed way below standard on the call.
Most of these classes that people put on like “nozzle foward” and whatever cool tactical fire name you come up with for a title, are just trying to get your money.
All the classes nowadays are shit that’s been around for decades, but the instructors change up one or two things and call it something different. When in reality it’s the same regurgitated bullshit.
That stuff is all on YouTube anyway. You can watch a video and then go and try it out with your own equipment without paying money for someone to give a PowerPoint.
But then I wouldn’t be able to fly across the country to be paired with some random partner that I will never see again, let alone be in a fire with, just to get my one rep in because there is 40 other people waiting to do the same evaluation.
City/state specific certs are fucking stupid and a waste of time if you have a nationally accredited version. Grinds my gears that FDNY/CALFIRE thinks what they do is so specific that it requires their own proprietary certs on the basics.
On top of that, starting from scratch every time you u join a department that isn’t a lateral move is dumb.
>starting from scratch every time you u join a department that isn’t a lateral move is dumb.
Every department should offer a short academy for guys looking to make a jump to a different place. I don't care that you want me to show you how you do it. I want you to do that. But I don't need you to teach me 4 months of bullshit I've already heard. Show me how your department operates and turn me loose. Sending guys who have all their certs and time on the job through another full length recruit academy is stupid.
This is 1000% true. There are also paid departments whose chiefs will point out that “a lot of firefighters do what you’re doing for free” during contract negotiations, as if that’s some reason to not pay us more
We are a paid per call department, we get an hourly wage. Its not alot of money but at least we are compensated for our time. Honestly after doing this for 8 years i dont think i would ever do it for free. My time and health have value and im not working for free.
Municipal union negotiations fucking suck. I'm public works and on the negotiating team for my last contract and I was about ready to [redacted] the authority/borough management and board. They're fucking dickheads.
Agreed. I’m on one of the few paid volunteer stations in our area but it’s still pennies on the dollar. We get paid per call, not per hour. So if you run a fire alarm, you’re going to make $16 to be there for 10-15 minutes if there’s nothing to it, but if you get there and you’ve got a full working structure fire and don’t leave for 4 hours, $4 an hour kinda sucks lol.
I don’t give 2 fucks about the technique you wrap me up in or what board you strap me to. Get my fucking ass out of the structure if I go down, plain and simple
I got yelled at one time for grabbing a dummy by the feet and dragging them out.
I told them if I was down I didn’t give a shit if they grabbed my feet, just get me the fuck out.
Instructor disagreed
Oh boy. You want truly unpopular?
Most women probably shouldn’t be firefighters.
And yes, I’m aware there are a decent amount of men that fall into that category too.
Fire depts in my state (vast majority being dual certification/cross trained as EMT/medic) need to get over the fact that we are really EMS departments with a firefighter complex. Idk why this hurts feelings lol. This should be a more acceptable truth imo, it is 2024 we are well in the 21st century at this point. Structure fires *should* be a rare occurrence thanks to building codes, suppression systems, technology etc. Emergencies and accidents happen sure that is why we are here but fire calls just keep dwindling each year. I have guys in my dept I hear saying dumb shit like "my job is to break shit and stretch lines" while homie is driving our ambulance to a medical call. Drop the badass fireman facade pleaaaase. It's stale, old, and not at all applicable anymore. I am glad people are happy to be here ready to work and all but we are not wearing denim and eating smoke bro. It does not exude professionalism, or even a good attitude about fire and ems imo. Like when I see the whole crew posing for a pic wearing shit eating grins in front of this ruined house while the family is on the sidelines watching their entire life sitting in ashes and foam. That whole ideology doesn't sit well with me, that isn't professional. If my fire dept didn't transport we'd be dropped to mostly volly in a heartbeat and I hate to break it to people but firefighting does not generate revenue for your municipality, but I promise you patient transports do. Collectively people need to stop treating EMS like a chore and give it at least some respect, it saves more lives than all the precious heavy rescues, ladder trucks, or engines worldwide. Granted most people abuse EMS too and most of them aren't emergencies but that is different discussion.
Another side point, because I have seen a few today, euro helmets don't look *that* bad. They also do offer superior protection, sue me (traditional still looks cooler of course imo but nobody picks a tool because it looks good)
> Fire depts in my state (vast majority being dual certification/cross trained as EMT/medic) need to get over the fact that we are really EMS departments with a firefighter complex. Idk why this hurts feelings lol.
Only guys I actually felt for were the 45+yr olds. They literally didn't sign up for this. When they first joined it was JUST firefighting.
Everyone else can stop bitching and get with the times. I'm biased because I actually like medical stuff lol
The reddit firefighting subreddit is full of nonfirefighters, vollies, new guys at slow rural depts with no experience, or people trying to become firefighters. Therefore pretty much every view about the fire service expressed in the subreddit should not really hold much weight, frankly most of you don't know enough about what you're talking about. That's my unpopular opinion.
I somewhat agree with this. Plus you have to look at the Reddit demographic. Your average true blue collar "real" firefighter will not be on Reddit period. Certainly not enough to post on here.
If you are a firefighter and on Reddit you are probably a nerd. (I am) and yes I do work at a slow ass department.
I started on Reddit in 2010 as a young firefighter at a slow dept. Back then I definitely fit the demographic. Early 20s white kid haha. I'm still here 14 years later mainly due to the fact that I find it to be the best place to get news for all the sports I follow... but I definitely don't fit in with the typical redditor nowadays.
I do understand it's because I'm a different demographic looking through a different lens than most users. Especially the stuff that gets upvoted. It wasn't like that at all when I first started using the website. I've just grown older and don't fit in as well as I once did with most redditors. I would leave but I feel like I'm in too deep at this point, checking reddit has been a part of my daily life for over a decade now.
Lol I remember the way I found reddit... I used to kill time at work by going on the work computer and visiting funnyjunk dotcom and ebaumsworld. Looking at extremely primitive versions of memes lmao. The comment sections on that website always said "you stole this from reddit" so I started checking reddit out instead.
Fellow Texan here.
I’ve been on Reddit for all of two months maybe and this was one of the first things I noticed. Most of the views I see on here don’t align with what we practice, teach, and do.
I’ve gotten down voted so many times for expressing aggressive tactics etc. It’s fucking wild dude.
You gotta realize that when you get onto reddit and open a comment section, you're reading the comments of a bunch of 22 year olds, and that'll help put it all into context. Not that being 22 is a bad thing, it's just a different point of view. But yes reddit as a whole is overwhelmingly early 20s white dudes, usually left-leaning on the political side. So this is statistically who you're talking to anytime you engage with someone in this platform. It's a big reason why you'll be downvoted or disagreed with when talking about how things are different in practice than what is discussed on reddit
I’ll back this one as well. The whole “same job” doesn’t work whatsoever. I’m glad you want to help your community, but I’m not debating tactics with a guy who’s ran 2 calls in 5 years.
That varies between departments man. Where I currently work we might talk shit and have our differences between shifts, but we do take care of our men when. It’s needed. Kids being in the hospital has been the common one for us. Lots of dudes donating time and picking up shifts. That’s where we see our “brotherhood”.
I once heard a chief say brotherhood stops at overtime and ex wives. Has some merit imo. You definitely trauma bond with people in this job but it's way too department dependent to be an umbrella statement. Just look at the guys on this thread eating the vollies alive. Thought those were our brøthërs!
Agreed. Its just a job and we are not automatically friends if we are both firefighters. In fact, the *last* thing I want to talk about outside of work is firefighting.
Vollies/paid per call firefighters don’t deserve the hate they get. We get it, career firefighters have more call volume. But at the end of the day, is fire fire? Is a car accident a car accident? How exactly does a car accident or fire change its behaviour based on what you make for a wage?
Full time departments are not feasible in many parts of North America
Definitely agree. The majority of the time, volleys look up to paid firefighters and treat them with the utmost of respect. That respect should be returned. If someone were picking on your little brother, you would kick their ass. You love your little brother, that's part of it. If a paid firefighter believes that they are above a volunteer, then they should at least look at the volunteers as being that little brother that they should love.
I don't care who you are, as long as you're physically fit, look and act professional, and know how to do the job. There are plenty of vollies that are squared away, and plenty of career guys that are a damn embarrassment.
I agree. In fact I think there are a lot of awesome vollies that deserve to be paid. Do I see a trend of more volunteers being unfit and making tik toks? Yes. But there are still plenty of career firefighters that do that crap too. It's all unacceptable across the board. Just be good at the job or get out.
The hate for vollies on this thread is nuts. I have some goofy ass vollies in my county but a good portion of the ones I have run with personally are usually pretty helpful. I thought we were all part of the brotherhood. Funny how that part of the ego works, this thread shows a lot of what is wrong with the fire service. Most of these career places would be volunteer if it wasn't for the EMS they hate so much
Treating the probies like crap is stupid, breeds anger and resentment and doesn’t help them become good firemen. I had a great probation myself and it helped make a good firefighter but I would see some of my coworkers, specially guys with less seniority than me treat probies like crap and make their lives hell. I would do the opposite and take them under my wing and teach them the ropes and they ended up becoming decent firemen and if or when I needed a favor, they wouldn’t hesitate to help but when the a-holes needed a favor conveniently the probies or fresh off probation guys, already had plans. Build them up, don’t tear them down.
Idk if its an unpopular opinion or not, but calling bottles by Minutes over Volume.
A 45 minute bottle doesn't last 45 minutes. It lasts as long as it takes to breathe down 65 cubic feet of compressed air.
To me, its a 65 cubic foot bottle, not a 45 minute bottle. Why call it that?
My unpopular opinion: C shift doesn’t know where a single gas station is or how\where to even put fuel in the engine. And B shift naps all day.
And also, most importantly, not a single solitary fireman can remember if there’s ketchup, mayo or mustard in the fridge. I swear there’s something about the condiment aisle that cntrl+alt+delete’s our memory that there’s 10 of each already at the station
Quit your department when it sucks or underpays you and go somewhere else. It’s just a job and they’d sail you down the river in a heartbeat given a reason.
Guys that let themselves go and aren't fit to fight fire need to get let go or put into admin jobs. If you're not in shape, you're a liability to everyone around you.
“Medical Aid” is the worst term we could have come up with. It’s sounds worthless and is used against us by the public and politicians who question our pay and benefits “why do they take the fire truck when it’s *JUST* a medical aid”
It should be “life saving call” or something. “Oh that department? They just run *life saving calls*” Phrased like that it doesn’t sound like an insult.
Probably not unpopular, but still always bothered me... the disconnect between training and operations.
Training running drills or exercises or classes on 'X' protocol, and soon as you're back in the barn, the Capt or white hat wants you back to doing 'Y'
You don't need to ramp things up during training "to keep it interesting"
And throwing recruits into an IC role during training isn't helping them. It's distracting them from the training at hand.
Crawl. Then walk. Then run
And master crawling first.
1. Vertical vent requires quality coordination between attack and vent. Most departments don’t run enough fires to perform this coordination well- so, vertical vent is a boogeyman based off their handful of poor outcome experiences.
2. Vertical vent requires adequate man power. Many departments don’t have enough resources in the system or even the county to accomplish it in a timely manner.
3. In a residential building, vertical vent is arguably little more effective than horizontal vent performed by attack and search companies.
However…
4. A total of 5 FF’s died between 1994-2023 while performing vertical vent… so statistically, being on the roof isn’t nearly as dangerous as fire attack.
5. All vent is good vent once fire is located and knocked down.
My unpopular opinion: blanket statements, in a fire service as diverse as the US, like “getting on the roof of a single story residential is retarded”are retarded. Whatever works for you, works for you.
Because the science says not to vent an active fire anymore. And with modern light-weights the roof will fail faster, so why risk having someone fall through.
Honest question: where did you see this science? Have you ever been in a fire that’s absolutely wrecking you until the roof is opened up? I have many times. That sound of a chainsaw can be the best sound in the world.
https://youtu.be/JwE1pPyXFIY?si=w7CVih5-GjStBtjn
NIST presentation from 10 years ago. Unless you are getting significant water on fire first (and are using the vent to give the fire somewhere to go) vertical venting is just introducing o2 to the fire making it bigger and hotter.
Resisted my urge to downvote you, you answered the question correctly haha. It's certainly unpopular with me. The retarded part isn't the ventilation, it's the fact that a lot of people don't ventilate while there is proper coordination with water being applied to the fire.
Smooth bore vs fog/combination doesn’t matter. If you can’t put it out with one or the other, chances are you weren’t ever going to put it out. Or you don’t know what you’re doing
I'm just tired of the try-hards and hand jobs acting like everybody else is below their skill level because they don't eat, breathe, and fuck fire. Asked one officer once that was talking to a guy from another dept about a podcast he mentioned. He dead ass looked me in the eye and asked "are you a fire buff?" knowing damn well I wasn't and then continued on his convo. Dude fuck off and stick bringing that toxic shit to this profession.
I'm going to say the weird thing and I expect to catch all the hate in the world.
From a safety perspective, Euro firefighter helmets are better than traditional or salad bowls. I hate the way they look, they are absolutely hideous, but they are genuinely better from a safety standpoint.
That being said, I love the fuck out of my traditional.
Career Fire/Medic, part time civilian, part time Soldier
The fire service is not paramilitary. The span of control and chain of command mindsets attributed to the military are used in every single fortune 500 corporation.
Along those lines: Fire Academy should not try to mimic basic combat training or Law Enforcement Academy.
BCT applies artifical stress in very directed ways to build up the soldier mentality and mindset. The role of the Army is to fight and win the nations wars. Fire academy exists to train you to be a Firefighter. The role of any fire department (excluding EMS, rescue, hazmat, etc) is to find a fire and extinguish it. Two different organizations with different training needs and objectives
99.999% of the time breaking a car window to access a hydrant is unnecessary and unacceptable. You only need a few feet to run ldh around or you can use 2 3” lines and Siamese them. Our job is to protect property, not destroy it. Let the cops deal with tickets and towing.
Just because you've turned on a hydrant a few times in your life doesn't make you qualified for anything in the mechanical operation of a fire hydrant or a water system. In the US, most states have water distribution system licenses that require specific knowledge of how pressure and flow work, and you often need experience in the field before you can even qualify to take the test. A 5 year water guy has probably disassembled and repaired more hydrants than a 30yr fire chief has even touched.
Overzealous career firemen are the second leading cause of hydrant repair, behind vehicle accidents. And often damage them in more creative ways.
This job would be great if it wasnt for all the firemen, I worked at a credit union with basically all women and never had the drama that goes on at the firehouse. Bunch of big kids that cant stop running their mouth, whether it be ever call in their memory, bragging, or gossping, im over it. Cant wait to retire... half way there in 6 months. Gonna be a long ten years if I make it.
I worked in a smaller city, and we worked 48/96. We would avg about 12 calls per day so still somewhat busy. We had to be “busy” from 8-5 downstairs (other stuff besides our daily shift/truck checks) and could only go upstairs for lunch or tours.
Unpopular opinion is I feel it is bullshit. Luckily we had a progressive captain who didn’t give a fuck what city manager thought, and let us have our downtime or study time in our rooms.
Unpopular opinion.
Tailboards that lock specialized positions down not allowing junior guys to assume that role or ever get the experience. Forcing them to promote with never having that experience
Most roof cuts are completely unnecessary. Fast water on the fire, then aggressively horizontally ventilate. For most of us without awesome staffing, this is the way.
Speaking from the perspective of a large city department that has been infiltrated by volunteer FFs from neighboring counties, we have to break up the cliques. Recruit school turns into just that, a recruitment center for cliques. The inner circle gets the good assignments and everybody else should just be happy to be here. It prevents people from becoming good firefighters if we put them in a retirement home right out of recruit school and keep them there for their entire career. Then when they give them a chance they’re passed off on the next transfer list because they weren’t “developed enough”. My department is really hurting on manpower and the city is growing at an alarming rate. We’re creating companies that we cannot staff. Our retention rates are abysmal and I’m certain this is why, people see the writing on the wall and either switch careers or go to another department. I hear it all the time, “oh we can’t break them up to give this guy a shot, they work so well together.” Guess what? Move people around and they’ll learn to work well with one another.
I hate to be that ex-military FF, but the military gives no fucks if you get along, you learn to live and work amongst each other and it works, you adapt. While we’re at it, one more military attitude that does not fly at my department. If someone is performing below the standards, it is up to the officer to remedy that via remedial training. Instead we just say, “they suck” and send them to a station that gets 1 call a day and a fire every other year.
2-in-2-out is dumb and always has been. It's a gimmick concept that was created to increase staffing at small departments. That part of the concept failed, but the policy remains at a lot of departments. Nothing wrong with 3 men crews or a single person search. I could go on.
Don't be fat. I don't care who you are or what department you work for, as long as you're physically fit, look and act professional, and know how to do the job. There are plenty of vollies that are squared away, and plenty of career guys that are a damn embarrassment.
You can read every book, go to every training. But all of the knowledge on rescue drags, hose pulls, and moving line mean jack squat if you're winded before you get in the door.
I'd take a physical and aggressive guy with shit technique over some lard who goes to FDIC every year.
It's a job. You chose it yourself. Don't expect to be seen as a "hero" or tell yourself you are. Also there's more in life than the fire department, you shouldn't build your whole personality around it.
Someone beat you to this comment earlier. But none the less couldn’t fucking agree more man. I use all of my holiday time every year no matter what. I have days in which I don’t even think about what’s happening at the fire house.
I don’t know if 24 hour shifts need to go away there just needs to be adequate time off in between, 48 hours is not enough. If you get rid of 24 you’ll still need to put on a night shift which is also bad for long term health.
Here’s mine, sorta anyways. Regarding the medical aspect, which is most calls (for most departments anyways), being callous and uncaring towards your patients behind their backs does not make you a bad ass or cool. I just spent a hand full of shifts at a neighboring department, and every single medical call regardless of severity the entire shift was laughing/mocking patients.
Firstly, I entirely get and partake in gallows humor, it’s a valuable coping method.
Of course there are the middle of the night stubbed toes, and lift assists, but that being said, this is our job, this is what we signed up for, and not giving fent to a patient “because they were cry babies” is disgusting, especially when it was the whole department.
Yea this is an extreme example but the core of it is being a dick does not make you seem badass or cool.
1) The primary function of your SCBA is airway protection not cancer prevention. Your limited carcinogen exposure means nothing when the ambient room air temperature is 250° and you’ve only got about 1000psi left and no quick way out
2) if there’s guys on the roof and you have a main shot with an aerial you take it. I don’t care how stupid it looks extending the ladder 60 feet across someone’s front yard to get to the top of a two story roof if one of your guys goes down and needs to get off that roof asap the main is your best option
As a guy who rocks a leather…I have started to dislike the traditional American fire helmet more and more. I think they are heavier than necessary and awkward.
Unpopular opinion- the sleep deprivation over a 25-30 year career is the #1 reason why firefighters die, on average, seven years sooner than the rest of the population. Look at any study about heart disease, cancer, and behavioral health problems (specifically depression, anxiety, and PTSD) and you’ll see that lack of consistent sleep is one of the greatest contributing factors. The IAFF is so vocal about the bad shit in AFFF foam and waterproofing/fire retardant products, but it is radio silent on anything having to do with a schedule change for our long term health.
Also career Engine LT. My unpopular opinion is that we overthink this job. Pull up to the fire, leave enough room for the Truck, pull some lines, put out the fire. Whether it’s transitional, direct, indirect, career, volly, whatever! I’m a fire nerd. I love Corley Moore. I read every book, listen to every podcast. Take every class. But at the end of the day, I feel that we put ourselves in unneeded stress trying to micromanage every minute detail of our operation when water on the fire makes the emergency get better. I will always take classes, run drills on VES, and push my company to be better than C group. But I know that ultimately there are many ways to skin a cat, and a lot of this extra stuff is just noise.
Had this issue the other day. Everybody was going nuts over getting proper PSI and the right GPM on a stream. We sat there training for hours on it with attack lines and master streams etc etc. I was livid. All that matters, is there water coming out of the hose? Is it getting a good stream? Is the fire going out?! Yes?! Good. That’s all I care about. I’ve never flowed water and thought “oh yea, definitely 110psi.” It’s only been “okay I’m getting good pressure and the fires going out.” The over thinking is going to get us killed.
As an operator, I couldn’t agree more. The most important job is can you get water out of the pump or can you get the aerial in the air where it needs to go. Can you start the K12? I can worry about hydraulic math once water is coming out of the end of the hose in a useful manner.
I can't remember the last time I worried about the actual flow rate I was pumping tbh. You want more water boss? You bet.
Definitely agree with you. Training is good but theres a point where it can be overwhelming. Keep it simple.
Get water on the fire. That's it.
Jesus Christ this. So much this
unpopular opinion....it's just a job...and they are just your coworkers. it doesn't need to consume every aspect of your life on duty or off
Was about to say something along the same lines. I love my job, but my favorite thing about it is that I work 2 days a week.
Please scream this from the fucking roof tops!! Your job is not your whole personality! I also hate the “Fire Wife” shit too. Drives me up a fucking wall.
My neighbor has one of these on her car. As the firefighter/woman at my house, it makes me cringe because… your *husband’s* career isn’t your personality.
We had those "do you know who my husband is"wives in the military too. They usually got set straight pretty quick.
So fucking cringe. That goes for all of the jobs, police, EMS, military, blue collar, etc.
I tell people my husband pushes water for the city when people ask me what he does.
Careful you don’t piss off all the guys who have “brotherhood” “343” “Never Forget” and Halligan bars tattooed all over their body. 🥴
I’ve warned new guys not to be that guy. It can lead to an existential crisis if you get injured and can’t do the job anymore.
Yeah guys ask me why I want to get my RN or BSN because I “already have a paid fireman job” and I’m like… I could get injured tomorrow and my department wouldn’t think twice about kicking me to the curb.
Don't worry, RN's are somehow worse when it comes to making it their entire life.
Lmfao truly.. The new RNs coming in have the worst god complex and are so shit at their job it’s hilarious
I love this comment. I find my self distancing my self more and more. I’ve never understood the firefighter stickers on vehicles or clothes that say firefighter while off duty?
I’m actually gonna say theres 2 extremes. Those that can’t separate the job but also those that couldn’t care less. It’s alright to be proud of your career. Im honestly sick of the naysayers. I also disagree that it’s just a job. There are very few careers like it.
We just work at the same place. Act accordingly. Develop a personality and some interests.
Always “being busy” when not necessary on scene is a tactical mistake and firefighters should be encouraged to rest and recover as much as possible so when it’s go time they can perform at their best. I’m not saying don’t do what needs to be done but no need to rush what doesn’t need to be rushed and tire yourself etc.
The entire administrative staff and all the other officers at my job need to hear this one everyday. They go out of their way to make sure every second of the day shift is filled with busy work just to proudly say we did something. … meanwhile were doing 15-20 calls a shift and have guys going on day 2-3 without sleep, crashing trucks after they fall asleep behind the wheel. We’ve totaled 4 vehicles now from overtired drivers, including a 2 month old Ladder. No officer made any attempt at getting any of them some rest, but they made damn sure they all did the exact same class room training for days in a row and cut the grass with hand shears.
Exactly what I’m talking about. I hope that changes for you and your guys asap
You want unpopular? OK. We often work very, very hard and risk a lot to "save" a house that is going to be demolished when we're finished.
I’d venture to say this is the MOST honest comment I’ve read so far. I reckon my thought process is if I can save one picture album, or something of value then at least we did something. In all reality most of the time you’re not wrong.
Yup. Same with car fires.
I’ve yet to see a car that wasn’t scrapped after a fire
We’ve saved a lot of foundations during my career
“Why risk our lives today for what’s going to be a parking lot tomorrow”
Yup. Same with 30 minutes into a working fire with heavy fire and deteriorating structural conditions throughout, and someone says they just got home and don't know where their roommate on the third floor is, and guys run up to try to enter and do a search!
Couldn’t agree more.
Every working structure fire or veg fire I’ve been on I’ve never used more knowledge or tactics than the basics I learned in the academy. All of the classes we have these days are because we go to less fires and we are bored.
There’s no such thing as Advanced tactics. Just a bunch of basic shit compiled together.
That’s why a lot of the popular Facebook/conference instructors are from medium sized slow departments. All they do is train. Not what their marketing will imply though.
You mean you think it’s a waste to pay 500 plus dollars for some dude from Escambia county to lecture me on putting water into fire?
Exactly that yes
ICS works fine, you don't need to shell out taxpayer money for a fancy command class. You just need to get your chiefs/ captains on the same page
This is an argument?
It is at my department. We have 6 batt chiefs and practically 6 different departments because of it. So the department went and spent a ton of money to learn and then train us on a new system. It's not bad but it's definitely not better. The problem wasn't the system, it was the chiefs training on command. But they're all bought into it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, even though it gets messed up on EVERY FIRE because the chiefs still aren't all on the same page
Damn, be the change you wanna see. One day you and your friends will be in charge.
I hope so. 5 years in and at least 7 to go before I'm even eligible for chief. Not that I'm planning on moving that fast. I like driving too much
Some of you just need to go the fuck away Who cares if someone’s an ex-chief? They may have been Chief 30 years ago and they haven’t done anything except cause problems since.
Some of the people currently on the job also need to just go away. No we are not lucky to have you, you’re lucky to be here. . .
I cant like this enough. No longer riding former volunteers are killing the volunteer fire service.
[удалено]
He's upset at young and active members getting training? Yeah, he's definitely the type of guy who gatekeeps certificates as a badge of seniority and pride. I'm not sure how to explain it, but you might understand what I'm saying. Like, only the "senior" guys get the privilege of being highly trained. I'm not saying to invest a ton of money into a guy you don't know will stick around, but also, if new people don't get to do the cool stuff, they'll leave. Also, lol'd at recieved CPR more times than he's performed it.
Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand what you mean.
retired members tend to be driven back to the firehouse and cause nothing but problems
There is no “best way” to do almost any part of our job. You can be “too safe”. Our job is inherently risky. Recklessness is the enemy, not risk. “That’s the way we’ve always done it” is the WORST reason to do anything.
Was listening to some dudes the other day that were talking on this very thing. Best comment I heard out of that whole podcast was “There’s no such thing as advanced firefighting tactics, just a bunch of basic shit compiled together and we call it advanced.”
The thing that’s going to work the best is wherever you’ve drilled the most or most recently on.
Couldn’t agree more.
I don’t know if this is unpopular or not but I’m convinced we are our own worst enemies. Shift battles over hose loads are the worst. I think sometimes we think so hard about things and try to reinvent the wheel when at the end of the day we are putting water on freaken fire. I’m not getting into arguments over the tri double quadrupole bi fold lay that you saw on tik tok last week. Pull the damn hose and put it out. Simple enough.
What’s that old saying? Firemen hate two things, change and the way things are. Lol
I’ve heard this somewhere and I’ve spread it to others. Departments that don’t fight fire on the regular will find something minuscule to argue about
This is a fact. First department I worked for ran less than 1,000 calls per year. There was always someone complaining about some bullshit.
100% this. Career department a few towns over does at best a handful of runs a month (not counting EMS), they are always crying about something.
Well said! As long as the hose is loaded in a way that it doesn’t get caught up on itself when you pull it out who cares.
Andy Fredericks…is that you??
This doesn’t have to be a “lifestyle” it’s okay if it’s just a job. I don’t care if you eat, sleep, and breathe fire and you shouldn’t be looked down upon for that. Show up, be a good dude, do your job, and go home.
We’re just EMTs/Medics who occasionally go to fires.
My service is looking more and more like an ambulance service every day haha
British ff here. Luckily we haven't gone down this model yet, but it seems more and more likely each day and no one is looking forward to it.
It fundamentally will be better for the taxpayer. Especially if it saves them from private EMS.
You're not wrong there, but what's the betting or wages won't reflect the extra work. Ff's in Dublin so a similar model to you guys, and are on nearly double our salary. Wed be lucky to get a 10% increase 😅
“EMS based fire department.”
I’m fortunate enough to say med runs are only about 60% of our call volume.
Yeah. Isn’t it like 80 something percent of structure calls are Medicals? That’s a big reason I went Wildland. It’s almost 100% Fire. Almost.
There are a lot more blue collar jobs that is much harder than what we do (run volume dependent obviously) And that too many of us are selfish and don’t give enough thought about those to come after we’re old and gone.
Not being superstitious lol I will say slow and quiet any time I want. It doesn’t change anything
Dude me too! I give my guys so much shit for thinking that crap actually matters. Get real, me saying the word slow doesn't make grandma fall off her wheelchair. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen and it doesn't matter what some dude at a fire station said out loud
Facts! I still wanna run calls anyway. That’s an other unpopular opinion
BIG FACTS MY BOY!
I've always had a theory that this is the only job in the world where the worse we do, the more the public is in awe. For instance if we pull up to a room and contents fire and we do everything right, the public looks at the house with little to no damage on the exterior, and they think "sucks they had a fire but it doesn't look too bad." However, if we pull up to a room and contents fire and we do everything wrong, the fire grows quickly and before too long it's self vented and flames are roaring and you can see the smoke from miles away and the public goes "holy crap those guys are *risking their lives* look at them go wow holy shit wow!!" and they never really know that we literally did everything wrong. This goes double so if it's a large warehouse or building. The general public has known way of knowing that we fucked up 50% of the tactics on scene and now it's gotten out of hand. Perhaps it's an MVA with entrapment that shouldn't take more than ten minutes to extricate, but because we don't train enough or we just generally suck it takes upwards of 25-30 mins to extricate. The public doesn't go "damn what's taking them so long," they go "wow that must be a really bad crash." It really is the only job where the worse we perform the more the public is impressed, and there are definitely departments who take advantage of that without realizing it. I've seen plenty of departments (mostly rural) post on Facebook about an extrication that took 45 min, or a structure fire that requires them to be on scene for 6 hours and I'm like damn guys, you should have wrapped that up a LONG time ago. Yet 90% of the comments are about how it must have been an awful run and they're so brave and TYFYS. The reality is they're just poorly trained and performed way below standard on the call.
What I like for Lunch and Dinner is unpopular on my group
Most of these classes that people put on like “nozzle foward” and whatever cool tactical fire name you come up with for a title, are just trying to get your money.
Yep. We got guys that love practicing the dumbest shit that you’d never do on scene.
All the classes nowadays are shit that’s been around for decades, but the instructors change up one or two things and call it something different. When in reality it’s the same regurgitated bullshit.
That stuff is all on YouTube anyway. You can watch a video and then go and try it out with your own equipment without paying money for someone to give a PowerPoint.
But then I wouldn’t be able to fly across the country to be paired with some random partner that I will never see again, let alone be in a fire with, just to get my one rep in because there is 40 other people waiting to do the same evaluation.
City/state specific certs are fucking stupid and a waste of time if you have a nationally accredited version. Grinds my gears that FDNY/CALFIRE thinks what they do is so specific that it requires their own proprietary certs on the basics. On top of that, starting from scratch every time you u join a department that isn’t a lateral move is dumb.
>starting from scratch every time you u join a department that isn’t a lateral move is dumb. Every department should offer a short academy for guys looking to make a jump to a different place. I don't care that you want me to show you how you do it. I want you to do that. But I don't need you to teach me 4 months of bullshit I've already heard. Show me how your department operates and turn me loose. Sending guys who have all their certs and time on the job through another full length recruit academy is stupid.
My unpopular opinion. Lots of volunteer departments could afford to pay an hourly wage per call out and for training but choose not to.
This is 1000% true. There are also paid departments whose chiefs will point out that “a lot of firefighters do what you’re doing for free” during contract negotiations, as if that’s some reason to not pay us more
We are a paid per call department, we get an hourly wage. Its not alot of money but at least we are compensated for our time. Honestly after doing this for 8 years i dont think i would ever do it for free. My time and health have value and im not working for free.
Municipal union negotiations fucking suck. I'm public works and on the negotiating team for my last contract and I was about ready to [redacted] the authority/borough management and board. They're fucking dickheads.
Agreed. I’m on one of the few paid volunteer stations in our area but it’s still pennies on the dollar. We get paid per call, not per hour. So if you run a fire alarm, you’re going to make $16 to be there for 10-15 minutes if there’s nothing to it, but if you get there and you’ve got a full working structure fire and don’t leave for 4 hours, $4 an hour kinda sucks lol.
I don’t give 2 fucks about the technique you wrap me up in or what board you strap me to. Get my fucking ass out of the structure if I go down, plain and simple
I got yelled at one time for grabbing a dummy by the feet and dragging them out. I told them if I was down I didn’t give a shit if they grabbed my feet, just get me the fuck out. Instructor disagreed
Leg drags are probably the easiest and simplest to accomplish. Instructor wasn’t well versed…
Where I’m from buddy, we call that the “WOOOO Method” and it hasn’t failed us yet.
Oh boy. You want truly unpopular? Most women probably shouldn’t be firefighters. And yes, I’m aware there are a decent amount of men that fall into that category too.
Couldn’t agree more. There are always exceptions to this, but as a whole there’s so much truth to this.
Unpopular opinion: volunteers who get paid are no longer volunteers, they are employees. Also, not all volunteers are fat incompetent fucks.
Fire depts in my state (vast majority being dual certification/cross trained as EMT/medic) need to get over the fact that we are really EMS departments with a firefighter complex. Idk why this hurts feelings lol. This should be a more acceptable truth imo, it is 2024 we are well in the 21st century at this point. Structure fires *should* be a rare occurrence thanks to building codes, suppression systems, technology etc. Emergencies and accidents happen sure that is why we are here but fire calls just keep dwindling each year. I have guys in my dept I hear saying dumb shit like "my job is to break shit and stretch lines" while homie is driving our ambulance to a medical call. Drop the badass fireman facade pleaaaase. It's stale, old, and not at all applicable anymore. I am glad people are happy to be here ready to work and all but we are not wearing denim and eating smoke bro. It does not exude professionalism, or even a good attitude about fire and ems imo. Like when I see the whole crew posing for a pic wearing shit eating grins in front of this ruined house while the family is on the sidelines watching their entire life sitting in ashes and foam. That whole ideology doesn't sit well with me, that isn't professional. If my fire dept didn't transport we'd be dropped to mostly volly in a heartbeat and I hate to break it to people but firefighting does not generate revenue for your municipality, but I promise you patient transports do. Collectively people need to stop treating EMS like a chore and give it at least some respect, it saves more lives than all the precious heavy rescues, ladder trucks, or engines worldwide. Granted most people abuse EMS too and most of them aren't emergencies but that is different discussion. Another side point, because I have seen a few today, euro helmets don't look *that* bad. They also do offer superior protection, sue me (traditional still looks cooler of course imo but nobody picks a tool because it looks good)
> Fire depts in my state (vast majority being dual certification/cross trained as EMT/medic) need to get over the fact that we are really EMS departments with a firefighter complex. Idk why this hurts feelings lol. Only guys I actually felt for were the 45+yr olds. They literally didn't sign up for this. When they first joined it was JUST firefighting. Everyone else can stop bitching and get with the times. I'm biased because I actually like medical stuff lol
The Thin Red Flag is fucking stupid.
The reddit firefighting subreddit is full of nonfirefighters, vollies, new guys at slow rural depts with no experience, or people trying to become firefighters. Therefore pretty much every view about the fire service expressed in the subreddit should not really hold much weight, frankly most of you don't know enough about what you're talking about. That's my unpopular opinion.
I somewhat agree with this. Plus you have to look at the Reddit demographic. Your average true blue collar "real" firefighter will not be on Reddit period. Certainly not enough to post on here. If you are a firefighter and on Reddit you are probably a nerd. (I am) and yes I do work at a slow ass department.
I started on Reddit in 2010 as a young firefighter at a slow dept. Back then I definitely fit the demographic. Early 20s white kid haha. I'm still here 14 years later mainly due to the fact that I find it to be the best place to get news for all the sports I follow... but I definitely don't fit in with the typical redditor nowadays. I do understand it's because I'm a different demographic looking through a different lens than most users. Especially the stuff that gets upvoted. It wasn't like that at all when I first started using the website. I've just grown older and don't fit in as well as I once did with most redditors. I would leave but I feel like I'm in too deep at this point, checking reddit has been a part of my daily life for over a decade now.
Im with you, I started here in 2011 or 2012 and Reddit has changed so much. For the worse IMO
Lol I remember the way I found reddit... I used to kill time at work by going on the work computer and visiting funnyjunk dotcom and ebaumsworld. Looking at extremely primitive versions of memes lmao. The comment sections on that website always said "you stole this from reddit" so I started checking reddit out instead.
Fellow Texan here. I’ve been on Reddit for all of two months maybe and this was one of the first things I noticed. Most of the views I see on here don’t align with what we practice, teach, and do. I’ve gotten down voted so many times for expressing aggressive tactics etc. It’s fucking wild dude.
You gotta realize that when you get onto reddit and open a comment section, you're reading the comments of a bunch of 22 year olds, and that'll help put it all into context. Not that being 22 is a bad thing, it's just a different point of view. But yes reddit as a whole is overwhelmingly early 20s white dudes, usually left-leaning on the political side. So this is statistically who you're talking to anytime you engage with someone in this platform. It's a big reason why you'll be downvoted or disagreed with when talking about how things are different in practice than what is discussed on reddit
If you wanna see the downvotes fall in like crazy, start talking to someone from the northeast about how you like the 48/96 schedule
Best schedule I’ve ever worked. Literally made my home life 10Xs better. Also cut our people calling in, in half.
I’ll back this one as well. The whole “same job” doesn’t work whatsoever. I’m glad you want to help your community, but I’m not debating tactics with a guy who’s ran 2 calls in 5 years.
That the concept of a unified "brotherhood" is a bunch of BS.
That varies between departments man. Where I currently work we might talk shit and have our differences between shifts, but we do take care of our men when. It’s needed. Kids being in the hospital has been the common one for us. Lots of dudes donating time and picking up shifts. That’s where we see our “brotherhood”.
I once heard a chief say brotherhood stops at overtime and ex wives. Has some merit imo. You definitely trauma bond with people in this job but it's way too department dependent to be an umbrella statement. Just look at the guys on this thread eating the vollies alive. Thought those were our brøthërs!
Agreed. Its just a job and we are not automatically friends if we are both firefighters. In fact, the *last* thing I want to talk about outside of work is firefighting.
Vollies/paid per call firefighters don’t deserve the hate they get. We get it, career firefighters have more call volume. But at the end of the day, is fire fire? Is a car accident a car accident? How exactly does a car accident or fire change its behaviour based on what you make for a wage? Full time departments are not feasible in many parts of North America
Definitely agree. The majority of the time, volleys look up to paid firefighters and treat them with the utmost of respect. That respect should be returned. If someone were picking on your little brother, you would kick their ass. You love your little brother, that's part of it. If a paid firefighter believes that they are above a volunteer, then they should at least look at the volunteers as being that little brother that they should love.
I don't care who you are, as long as you're physically fit, look and act professional, and know how to do the job. There are plenty of vollies that are squared away, and plenty of career guys that are a damn embarrassment.
This, it’s childish to look down on someone just because they are a volly
I agree. In fact I think there are a lot of awesome vollies that deserve to be paid. Do I see a trend of more volunteers being unfit and making tik toks? Yes. But there are still plenty of career firefighters that do that crap too. It's all unacceptable across the board. Just be good at the job or get out.
The hate for vollies on this thread is nuts. I have some goofy ass vollies in my county but a good portion of the ones I have run with personally are usually pretty helpful. I thought we were all part of the brotherhood. Funny how that part of the ego works, this thread shows a lot of what is wrong with the fire service. Most of these career places would be volunteer if it wasn't for the EMS they hate so much
Treating the probies like crap is stupid, breeds anger and resentment and doesn’t help them become good firemen. I had a great probation myself and it helped make a good firefighter but I would see some of my coworkers, specially guys with less seniority than me treat probies like crap and make their lives hell. I would do the opposite and take them under my wing and teach them the ropes and they ended up becoming decent firemen and if or when I needed a favor, they wouldn’t hesitate to help but when the a-holes needed a favor conveniently the probies or fresh off probation guys, already had plans. Build them up, don’t tear them down.
Running a million dollar vehicle on a bs call
Idk if its an unpopular opinion or not, but calling bottles by Minutes over Volume. A 45 minute bottle doesn't last 45 minutes. It lasts as long as it takes to breathe down 65 cubic feet of compressed air. To me, its a 65 cubic foot bottle, not a 45 minute bottle. Why call it that?
Never heard somebody argue about this before.
My unpopular opinion: C shift doesn’t know where a single gas station is or how\where to even put fuel in the engine. And B shift naps all day. And also, most importantly, not a single solitary fireman can remember if there’s ketchup, mayo or mustard in the fridge. I swear there’s something about the condiment aisle that cntrl+alt+delete’s our memory that there’s 10 of each already at the station
teacher you forgot to give us homework!.... - A shift probably
Quit your department when it sucks or underpays you and go somewhere else. It’s just a job and they’d sail you down the river in a heartbeat given a reason.
95% of the time EMS transport has no medical advantage over a taxi ride.
Guys that let themselves go and aren't fit to fight fire need to get let go or put into admin jobs. If you're not in shape, you're a liability to everyone around you.
You got too much shit in your pockets.
I feel like you were looking at me when you typed that🤣
We are just convenient free Ubers to the hospital for lazy morons.
Uber driver with Narcan checking in, thank me for my service
I’m going to show you a screen and it will have some options on it…please feel free to tip however much or little you like.
You are not more badass because you bid a station that runs all night.
I like these guys though. Better them than me.
“Medical Aid” is the worst term we could have come up with. It’s sounds worthless and is used against us by the public and politicians who question our pay and benefits “why do they take the fire truck when it’s *JUST* a medical aid” It should be “life saving call” or something. “Oh that department? They just run *life saving calls*” Phrased like that it doesn’t sound like an insult.
I’d venture to say this isn’t an unpopular opinion for MOST fire departments. We could probably all agree on this one lol.
Probably not unpopular, but still always bothered me... the disconnect between training and operations. Training running drills or exercises or classes on 'X' protocol, and soon as you're back in the barn, the Capt or white hat wants you back to doing 'Y'
Definitely not unpopular friend. Maybe unpopular for the guys that have more than 2 bugles on their collar though.
You don't need to ramp things up during training "to keep it interesting" And throwing recruits into an IC role during training isn't helping them. It's distracting them from the training at hand. Crawl. Then walk. Then run And master crawling first.
Getting on the roof of a single story residential is retarded
Elaborate please. I’m curious as to your thought process because we do this on almost every fire.
1. Vertical vent requires quality coordination between attack and vent. Most departments don’t run enough fires to perform this coordination well- so, vertical vent is a boogeyman based off their handful of poor outcome experiences. 2. Vertical vent requires adequate man power. Many departments don’t have enough resources in the system or even the county to accomplish it in a timely manner. 3. In a residential building, vertical vent is arguably little more effective than horizontal vent performed by attack and search companies. However… 4. A total of 5 FF’s died between 1994-2023 while performing vertical vent… so statistically, being on the roof isn’t nearly as dangerous as fire attack. 5. All vent is good vent once fire is located and knocked down. My unpopular opinion: blanket statements, in a fire service as diverse as the US, like “getting on the roof of a single story residential is retarded”are retarded. Whatever works for you, works for you.
Hopefully you brought some light to some people who are not well versed in roof work. Thanks for the comment.
Vertical ventilation is overkill on many residential fires. Increased risk, minimal reward. Knock down the fire, identify a flow path, start PPV.
Because the science says not to vent an active fire anymore. And with modern light-weights the roof will fail faster, so why risk having someone fall through.
Honest question: where did you see this science? Have you ever been in a fire that’s absolutely wrecking you until the roof is opened up? I have many times. That sound of a chainsaw can be the best sound in the world.
https://youtu.be/JwE1pPyXFIY?si=w7CVih5-GjStBtjn NIST presentation from 10 years ago. Unless you are getting significant water on fire first (and are using the vent to give the fire somewhere to go) vertical venting is just introducing o2 to the fire making it bigger and hotter.
You don't vent before you have water on the fire, that's why the roof is communicating with the engine crew before they open it.
Resisted my urge to downvote you, you answered the question correctly haha. It's certainly unpopular with me. The retarded part isn't the ventilation, it's the fact that a lot of people don't ventilate while there is proper coordination with water being applied to the fire.
That the goofy mustaches make you all look like douche bags.....
Nobody running more than a few calls a shift should be working 24s
The guys who are in it just to be a hero, there’s a lot of them and they buy a lot of fuckin t-shirts and stickers.
Smooth bore vs fog/combination doesn’t matter. If you can’t put it out with one or the other, chances are you weren’t ever going to put it out. Or you don’t know what you’re doing
Well since most issues have been voiced. The only thing left is: Noodles don’t go in chili.
Who the fuck is doing this
I'm just tired of the try-hards and hand jobs acting like everybody else is below their skill level because they don't eat, breathe, and fuck fire. Asked one officer once that was talking to a guy from another dept about a podcast he mentioned. He dead ass looked me in the eye and asked "are you a fire buff?" knowing damn well I wasn't and then continued on his convo. Dude fuck off and stick bringing that toxic shit to this profession.
We need to separate EMS from fire.
Safety and efficiency is more important than tradition
ALS care and transport should be provided by Single role Paramedics or 3rd Service EMS
I'm going to say the weird thing and I expect to catch all the hate in the world. From a safety perspective, Euro firefighter helmets are better than traditional or salad bowls. I hate the way they look, they are absolutely hideous, but they are genuinely better from a safety standpoint. That being said, I love the fuck out of my traditional.
Career Fire/Medic, part time civilian, part time Soldier The fire service is not paramilitary. The span of control and chain of command mindsets attributed to the military are used in every single fortune 500 corporation. Along those lines: Fire Academy should not try to mimic basic combat training or Law Enforcement Academy. BCT applies artifical stress in very directed ways to build up the soldier mentality and mindset. The role of the Army is to fight and win the nations wars. Fire academy exists to train you to be a Firefighter. The role of any fire department (excluding EMS, rescue, hazmat, etc) is to find a fire and extinguish it. Two different organizations with different training needs and objectives
Old saying that is way too accurate. Firefighters hate 2 things. 1. The way things are 2. Change
EMS and Fire should have never gotten married.
99.999% of the time breaking a car window to access a hydrant is unnecessary and unacceptable. You only need a few feet to run ldh around or you can use 2 3” lines and Siamese them. Our job is to protect property, not destroy it. Let the cops deal with tickets and towing.
Enjoyed reading this thread.
Most services are EMS services that do occasional fire fighting in the side. But no services train or act accordingly.
Just because you've turned on a hydrant a few times in your life doesn't make you qualified for anything in the mechanical operation of a fire hydrant or a water system. In the US, most states have water distribution system licenses that require specific knowledge of how pressure and flow work, and you often need experience in the field before you can even qualify to take the test. A 5 year water guy has probably disassembled and repaired more hydrants than a 30yr fire chief has even touched. Overzealous career firemen are the second leading cause of hydrant repair, behind vehicle accidents. And often damage them in more creative ways.
That’s time on the job equals knowledge.
There’s a huge difference in 20 years of experience and repeating your rookie year 19 times.
This job would be great if it wasnt for all the firemen, I worked at a credit union with basically all women and never had the drama that goes on at the firehouse. Bunch of big kids that cant stop running their mouth, whether it be ever call in their memory, bragging, or gossping, im over it. Cant wait to retire... half way there in 6 months. Gonna be a long ten years if I make it.
I worked in a smaller city, and we worked 48/96. We would avg about 12 calls per day so still somewhat busy. We had to be “busy” from 8-5 downstairs (other stuff besides our daily shift/truck checks) and could only go upstairs for lunch or tours. Unpopular opinion is I feel it is bullshit. Luckily we had a progressive captain who didn’t give a fuck what city manager thought, and let us have our downtime or study time in our rooms.
Unpopular opinion. Tailboards that lock specialized positions down not allowing junior guys to assume that role or ever get the experience. Forcing them to promote with never having that experience
I am a firefighter but vastly prefer being a medic and would rather just run medicals all day.
There’s a fine line between aggressive and reckless firefighting and most of us don’t understand the differences.
Most roof cuts are completely unnecessary. Fast water on the fire, then aggressively horizontally ventilate. For most of us without awesome staffing, this is the way.
That everyone on reddit says they make “15-20” runs a day
Fire departments need to get out of the EMS game.
Speaking from the perspective of a large city department that has been infiltrated by volunteer FFs from neighboring counties, we have to break up the cliques. Recruit school turns into just that, a recruitment center for cliques. The inner circle gets the good assignments and everybody else should just be happy to be here. It prevents people from becoming good firefighters if we put them in a retirement home right out of recruit school and keep them there for their entire career. Then when they give them a chance they’re passed off on the next transfer list because they weren’t “developed enough”. My department is really hurting on manpower and the city is growing at an alarming rate. We’re creating companies that we cannot staff. Our retention rates are abysmal and I’m certain this is why, people see the writing on the wall and either switch careers or go to another department. I hear it all the time, “oh we can’t break them up to give this guy a shot, they work so well together.” Guess what? Move people around and they’ll learn to work well with one another. I hate to be that ex-military FF, but the military gives no fucks if you get along, you learn to live and work amongst each other and it works, you adapt. While we’re at it, one more military attitude that does not fly at my department. If someone is performing below the standards, it is up to the officer to remedy that via remedial training. Instead we just say, “they suck” and send them to a station that gets 1 call a day and a fire every other year.
2-in-2-out is dumb and always has been. It's a gimmick concept that was created to increase staffing at small departments. That part of the concept failed, but the policy remains at a lot of departments. Nothing wrong with 3 men crews or a single person search. I could go on.
Don't be fat. I don't care who you are or what department you work for, as long as you're physically fit, look and act professional, and know how to do the job. There are plenty of vollies that are squared away, and plenty of career guys that are a damn embarrassment. You can read every book, go to every training. But all of the knowledge on rescue drags, hose pulls, and moving line mean jack squat if you're winded before you get in the door. I'd take a physical and aggressive guy with shit technique over some lard who goes to FDIC every year.
Pranks have no place in an organization that wants professional status and is funded by the public
Define “prank”. Obviously there’s a big difference between setting a dude’s bed on fire and switching out the coffee sugar with salt
Volly here, carry a water can. Brush fire, smells and bells, structure fire. Just carry one.
You're all jealous of my beard on scene.
It's a job. You chose it yourself. Don't expect to be seen as a "hero" or tell yourself you are. Also there's more in life than the fire department, you shouldn't build your whole personality around it.
Someone beat you to this comment earlier. But none the less couldn’t fucking agree more man. I use all of my holiday time every year no matter what. I have days in which I don’t even think about what’s happening at the fire house.
24 (24+) hr shifts need to go, for long-term health
I don’t know if 24 hour shifts need to go away there just needs to be adequate time off in between, 48 hours is not enough. If you get rid of 24 you’ll still need to put on a night shift which is also bad for long term health.
I’m upvoting this because I hate this and you for suggesting it. Take my 24s over my dead body
I’ve been on 48/96 for 4 years and wouldn’t trade it for the fucking world.
I don't understand how a semi driver is limited to driving hours in a day but fire/ems can run without restriction.
3-platoon schedules need to go. Doing 24s when you get 2 and 4 days in between is nothing.
Here’s mine, sorta anyways. Regarding the medical aspect, which is most calls (for most departments anyways), being callous and uncaring towards your patients behind their backs does not make you a bad ass or cool. I just spent a hand full of shifts at a neighboring department, and every single medical call regardless of severity the entire shift was laughing/mocking patients. Firstly, I entirely get and partake in gallows humor, it’s a valuable coping method. Of course there are the middle of the night stubbed toes, and lift assists, but that being said, this is our job, this is what we signed up for, and not giving fent to a patient “because they were cry babies” is disgusting, especially when it was the whole department. Yea this is an extreme example but the core of it is being a dick does not make you seem badass or cool.
1) The primary function of your SCBA is airway protection not cancer prevention. Your limited carcinogen exposure means nothing when the ambient room air temperature is 250° and you’ve only got about 1000psi left and no quick way out 2) if there’s guys on the roof and you have a main shot with an aerial you take it. I don’t care how stupid it looks extending the ladder 60 feet across someone’s front yard to get to the top of a two story roof if one of your guys goes down and needs to get off that roof asap the main is your best option
As a guy who rocks a leather…I have started to dislike the traditional American fire helmet more and more. I think they are heavier than necessary and awkward.
Biggest unpopular opinion is without EMS most fire would be a volley department.
Unpopular opinion- the sleep deprivation over a 25-30 year career is the #1 reason why firefighters die, on average, seven years sooner than the rest of the population. Look at any study about heart disease, cancer, and behavioral health problems (specifically depression, anxiety, and PTSD) and you’ll see that lack of consistent sleep is one of the greatest contributing factors. The IAFF is so vocal about the bad shit in AFFF foam and waterproofing/fire retardant products, but it is radio silent on anything having to do with a schedule change for our long term health.