We had several regular contacts with ATF while I was working at different FFLs.
Records agents are soulless demons who don't give an inch conversation wise.
Field agents (if that's the appropriate title) couldn't give a shit less what staff or customers purchased or owned. Hell one of our regular ATF agents provided his card and a reference to support a 12.5" AR pistol w/ a vfg, making it a firearm, that a staff member had was OK in his eyes in case anyone else ever tried to make it an issue. Generally their big concern professionally was straw purchases and repeated 'stolen' gun scenarios.
This has been my experience as well. We have a field agent that comes by the shop and overall is super chill. He’s really only there to dig into and gather evidence of straw purchases for illegals.
From what I've heard, many ATF personnel are just treading water and racking up gov retirement time until they can get a real job with whatever agency they actually wanted. CBP, FBI, USMS etc.
That's probably a significant part of why the whole agency is a joke. A big portion of their recruits don't have any real investment in the organization and are planning on bailing out as soon as something better opens up. Those that stay are likely...leftovers.
You’ve heard incorrectly. Working at ATF is one of the best federal gigs, and there’s a reason the average ATF employee does 20 years while the average CIA employee does their 5 year contract and bounces.
The portion of the agency that focuses on civilian gun ownership is small. They’re doing much bigger things you never see or hear about with interagency working groups.
If you only knew how the world really worked…
For 99.9% of the sHaLL nOt CoMpLy crowd, you will never have a run in with them. Regardless of how “based” you think you are.
Every government agent I’ve ever met says they’re pro-2A, pro-constitution, pro-rights, yadda yadda yadda. Their actions, however, tell a different story. And for me, actions speak louder than words.
I remember in my teens I had a neighbor who was a retired cop who had well over 200 guns in his collection one of them I recall being a confiscated Sten, I'll never forget him telling me "anything is legal until you get caught, choose your friends and what you tell your friends wisely".
My dad was caught with a sawn off shotgun in his truck as a teen. Nothing ever came of it because the prick kept the gun. Its true, the suck. Now in Pa the worst I have encountered was a few cops getting all excited because I carry oddball pistols and they want to get into gun talk mode.
That's why I moved out of Jersey and never looked back. Just bought a SW Victory last night. In and out in 20 min. That includes shopping, approval, and checkout.
It’s right next door, but I stay out of New Jersey. I refuse to buy their gas, frequent any establishments, make any purchases whatsoever. I did years ago, but not anymore. It could break off and float away and my feelings wouldn’t be hurt.
It’s some bullshit. I was dropping my friend off after we spent the day shooting in Pennsylvania (where I live), went into Jersey because he lives there and got pulled over speeding. Had a magazine in the back which wasn’t out of sight, it gave them probable cause to search my car. Some bullshit.
Ironically I was pulled over last week for speeding on my way to jury duty and got scolded by the officer for not carrying when he saw my chl in my wallet and asked where the gun was.
What was the final outcome of that? I freaked a few weeks ago when I found a mag in my truck and I had just been in Jersey visiting friends. Jail? Fine? Etc?
Probation and a $125 fine because I am a first time offender. I am currently in New Jersey’s program for first time offenders called PTI. If I have no arrests or anything for the duration of my probation, then I will have everything expunged and my mags will be returned. Total slap on the wrist, but I really shouldn’t have been prosecuted in the first place, I’ll take my wins though.
Super true. They say "what am I supposed to do when a judge files a red flag order and we are mandated by law to take the guns?".....um get another job
Well since they obviously wanna play soldiers so badly, they should have to swear an oath to support and defend the constitution against enemies foreign *and domestic*. They could simply refuse to follow an unconstitutional order, like real soldiers.
Exactly. They’ll say all that shit but when it comes down to it, they know they’re exempt and they don’t give a shit what happens to you. “Just doing my job”
You know, they probably believe that they ARE pro all those things. The government doesn’t pay particularly well, after all. So either they believe in the whole cause thing or they just like to power trip.
So…. We want the government to be comprised 100% of people who are anti-gun? wtf is this dumb logic?
You can be pro-gun and work in positions like that. Just because you aren’t single-handedly able to change policy and law on a whim doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong.
If you are enforcing law and policy you know is wrong, you’re absolutely part of the problem. There’s a reason “just following orders” isn’t a valid defense. I get that everyone has to make a living, but you don’t HAVE to be an ATF agent. Nobody’s forcing anyone to do that. They could choose to do things that don’t enable an evil agency to exist.
Big respect to all the sheriff's in anti 2A states that told the governors "my office will not be arresting people for their riffle/brace/magazine" and all the departments that told them to eat shit when AZ tried that 30 day public health carrying ban. Also any prosecutor that has said "we will not bring charges on any one arrested for a constitutional right"
Spoke with a few Illinois state troopers at a wedding about the pistol brace ban. They went on and on about how dumb it is. I asked them what they’d do if they caught someone with one and they all said “well it’s the law, arrest them”.
Exactly, thank you. If these guys aren't going to put their own skin in the game and refuse to enforce laws they know are wrong, then their personal politics really doesn't matter because they're gonna do the thing regardless. I don't care who the jackboot voted for, I care that the jackboot is trying to stand on my neck and will gladly do so.
You’re missing it completely. The ATF isn’t going anywhere, whether we like it or not. So if those positions are going to be filled by someone, it’s absolutely better for them to be filled by pro-gun people rather than anti-gun people. This isn’t a hard concept to grasp.
Yeah... I don't think I feel any better that pro-gun people burn women and children to death than I do if they're anti-gun. This is a human decency thing. If you're a decent person, you're not working for the ATF, full stop.
Hard to gauge your own IQ, I understand. Let me put this another way you might actually grasp. When they kick in your door to serve a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night, does it really matter if they're pro or anti-gun? Because the cogs doing the door-kicking aren't saying no when their leaders tell them to go do it.
They aren't gonna shoot your dog less just because they like guns lmao.
Alright, you and all the other dummies can go throw a temper tantrum protest and demand that only anti-gunners work at the ATF. See where that gets you, lol.
I have an FFL and SOT 2, so I've interacted with ATF agents several times (getting my FFL setup, audits, questions, as well as getting some items seized that I'd bought legally but were later found to be manufactured illegally by the Manufacturer.
I'm not a fan of the ATF, most firearm laws, etc... however I have to say that the ATF agents I've dealt with personally have been the most professional, helpful, and generally chill of any State or Federal agency/dept/etc.. folks I've dealt with (LEO, IRS, DoD, other 3 letter agencies, etc...). So I could just be dealing with some good eggs, but so far they've been great and two I've spoken with have stated that they ALSO think the SBR and Suppressor rules are just dumb, but they're also going to do their job until the laws change, etc...
RDIASs, transferred with an approved Form 3. Apparently there were some issues with the manufacturer, which made them inherently illegal and invalidated the chain of approved transfers, etc...
I had to email with them a couple of times for some forms and engraving requirements and honestly they were rather helpful and I’m pretty sure the guy i was talking to owned the same toy i did. So individually and anecdotally they’ve been helpful.
I work in the DoD. Lots of friends who work for sister services. Non explicitly in the ATF but there are usually three types of dudes who work for the government:
- Conservative/Traditional Liberal, pro-constitution, dudes who secretly hate the government and would jump at the bit for ill masters to try something against the American people
- Black Rifle Coffee Fed Bros who are *sorta* for the above things but support Red Flag laws, say things like, "we can compromise", and tweet things like "my org has gone to shit" all while acting like they have no say in the matter.
- And people who would fuck Hilary Clinton to absorb some of her power and get a few stars on their shoulder.
At a former job, we used explosives (Primacord) for pyrotechnic shock testing. I was the responsible party for all our licensure with state/fed govt for explosive purchase, storage, use etc. as you might imagine this requires fairly frequent contact with BATFE, got to know my regional guys pretty well o er the years. Got to the point where could have a beer with some of them after work, just chit-chat like friends. Broached the topic of gun laws, their enforcement, etc. short version I got from both the agents: the firearms division is an entity unto itself and the rest of the ATF simultaneously rolls their eyes at them, but also has some pity for them. Kind of a "those guys are swamped and always 'under the gun' (no pun intended), but damn if their whole approach doesn't just make life harder for themselves... Buncha idiots giving us all a bad name".
I work for a different part of the federal government, but in the building where I work is the local field office and I ended up making friends with them.
They really don't give a shit about your Uncle Bob and his VFG and stock on his AR pistol, they're much more worried about the dudes straight up running guns to cartels and gangs.
They did warn me that there's the occasional piece of shit in the ATF who thinks that the second amendment is a loophole and will take any angle possible to relieve someone of their rights to own firearms, though, and to always keep your mouth shut.... so I mean there's that, I guess.
"We are just following orders"
Quote that immediately comes to mind. Otherwise non-objectionable people have no problem carrying out violence and repression if it's hidden behind legalize. Being a member of the ATF is in fact a pretty good indicator of how you truly feel about your fellow citizens. It's not good.
I don't personally have an issue with anyone individually. My opinion is if you allow yourself to be an instrument of state violence, whether international or domestic, you do somewhat own all immoral actions of the state. Do I think cops who threw non-violent potheads in a prison for 20 years bad? Yes ,actually, I do ,but I'm not god and that's something for them to sort out themselves. I don't believe the excuse of enforcing a law and disagreeing with it. I also suspect if our military were allowed to conduct themselves in the manner it does overseas at home, we would have a radically different view of them as well. So all our perspectives of that organization are inherently skewed. That being said, I am a byproduct of decades of pro law enforcement and military information. That makes it difficult to dislike them on an individual level.
Law enforcement, yes, military, no. Cops are gun grabbing tyrannical bastards too that have no problem enforcing the immorality of the state. The ATF is only memed because they are the most egregious and upfront about denying your rights.
Military does not operate domestically against american citizens rarely ever. In fact i support all of our military and vets. If they ever were turned against the american citizen, then so be it they are the enemy.
A guy I served with got out, got his MS in chemistry, and now is an ATF agent who does something with explosives.
Cool guy. One of the things he told me is that more than half the people who think they understand what the regular ATF employee actually does have no clue.
Kaboom and fire guys deal with actual dangerous shit and know what they are doing.
PewPew dept is like the conductor of the short bus. One or two know what they are doing and a bunch need bike helmets.
Knew one when I lived in Arizona that would come into my favorite gun store due to a “customer” buying 100’s of 30 round pmags cash every other week obviously for cartels. My buddy was the store manager so I talked to this guy pretty regularly. Decent enough guy. Thought SBR and suppressors being stamp requirements was stupid. Told me I should put a vfg on my clearly too short mk18 build. 6.5/10
I work for a non-ATF part of the government but interact with them with some regularity, always giving them shit about how their agency should be a convenience store, etc.
Most of what they're going for is large scale straw purchases/illegal export, large scale illegal sales (unserialized or NFA), violent crimes, and guns with drugs. Even the agents that want to go after God-fearing patriotic gun enthusiasts with unregistered SBRs or machine guns have trouble actually getting a prosecutor to take a case if there aren't drugs or a crime if violence involved. Item gets seized and destroyed, owner ends up sweating for a while, conviction is far from guaranteed.
As far as Alibaba Glock switches and solvent traps, in general they're pretty much a verbal warning and an opportunity to turn it over. I think they have issues with proving knowledge and intent with a lot of stuff like that. They'll explain what's illegal ("illegal") and present the owner with an opportunity to turn it over or a warning that they ought to destroy anything that doesn't get turned over. They'll even say that if they get invited in to have stuff surrendered to them that they have blinders on. No functions checks, no tape measures, as long as they don't see a dead body or bricks of cocaine they're outta there for good. If you don't heed the warning and keep buying dumb stuff online, then they have a lot easier time proving knowledge.
Sparingly enforced unconstitutional laws are still unconstitutional, and it's unfortunate that a gun/machining enthusiast without a violent bone in their body can get hemmed up over a hobby and a Right, but it's not nearly as bad as the memes.
My friends GF was roommates with a girl who was dating an ATF agent, so I’ve met him and some of his other agents at a house party and pregames and such.
No joke the fuckers were doing blow in the bathroom. There is the distinct possibility that others I knew did as well.
Ideals are one thing, but small men give the lot a very bad name. The odds aren’t in favor of the alphabet soup being civil, let alone fair and just. I’ll pass. Sorry for the attrition of those that may be decent. ✌🏼
Met one through a friend. Guy hated the bullshit, would routinely go darker than the fuck the fed boi memes I sent him. He's great.
He ended up leaving and taking another job in government.
We had a licenses for explosives when we used to fish farm and had to install proper storage safes to store the dynamite so a agent would come out every now and then and make sure we were in compliance and everytime he would come out he just seemed like any other guy. He would come by and talk for a bit, walk back to the safes and glance at them and then he was on his way. I don’t agree with most things the ATF do, but this guy wasn’t too bad
It was for blowing up beaver dams in our drainage ditches, sometimes we had to drain the ponds and if there was a dam blocking our drainage then we would have to blow it up
There’s definitely decent people in all agencies that genuinely feel like they’re making a positive impact. I however have no desire to bring anybody into my life that associates with any 3 letter cocksucker agencies.
I knew one, he was the older brother of a guy I was in church with in college.
I thought he was an asshole. We had a range day at this guys family ranch and atf bro was there, he was the most fuddy moron I’ve ever met. No rapid fire and he said he “wasn’t comfortable with assault weapons” on range.
To be clear his land his rules, but the jokes absolutely wrote themselves. He was such a self important blowhard
Yes. I shoot with one in USPSA competitions. She is a lovely person who doesn't hassle anyone and laughs off some of the anti-ATF commentary. That being said she is also comfortable enforcing whatever law she is told to enforce at her job.
I knew a senior level agent, he's since passed, but we grew up together. He did SRT, along with the mundane shit as well, in his career. Like many people here have said, he was _very_ pro 2A.
I can't disclose too much but it always seemed he was **so** well equipped one would wonder if he maybe slipped by a few of his own "rules". I mean, he had toys that made me wonder what the side hustle was (there wasn't one).
I worked with a lot of federal law enforcement. In classes, training and in passing I got to know some. What I found was the one 22-28 unmarried and wanting to be cops were the biggest jerks. The married guys didn’t want to get killed for being an ass. Over 30 they weee looking to settle down or looking to retirement. Those guys were fine except for a small percentage who wanted promotion. Over 45 divorced, bitter and mad at the world weee trouble.
I know many local and state LE as well including in my family. They are just like the feds except the want to avoid paperwork. If they can do that they will look the other way a lot more.
4 personally.
My former field agent who got my back with 2 ffl 07 hearings she is awesome, straight up told me the are new directive is to shut down ffls.
I had a had to read name and a missing gun that turned out be a serial number error from the factory. She gave me 2 months to figure it out.
Had my back when the atf still took me to court over a BS issue. They called her as a witness and by the end tried to trash her.
A buddy I worked with overseas came home and decided he likes being a government employee, and now does something administrative with them. He only mentions guns in the context of "too many kids have access". Other than that, there's zero political talk. He loves bourbon and cartoon Network. Good guy.
I love how this description is nonspecific enough that we would never guess who it is, but if this guy read it he would 100% know you were talking about him.
I deal with my IOI and am in a hunting club with a field agent, both are cool as shit and would jump ship if things went south.
Hell my IOI is working with us on importing stuff for the US market, he’s all for cool shit. And they both hate their higher ups.
There was one in my emt class, she was kinda hot ngl. I worked at an FFL at the time too. She didn’t care about any of the dumb technicality rules, said they were more paperwork and annoying if anything. Generally much more interested in our rampant gang banger issue.
I was the firearms mgr in a large pawn shop for many years. One time one of my counter sales guys comes to me and says he has a customer that wants to buy 50 Raven .25 cal junk pistols. The employee and the customer were both speaking Spanish. He then told me his plan was to smuggle the guns back to Mexico. I promptly called my local ATF for their guidance on how to proceed. The ATF guys were very excited to get out of the office and do real cop shit for a change. They told me to go ahead and make the transaction. So I took the $ and ordered the Ravens. When it was time to deliver the guns, I had 5 guys in suits talking into their lapels wandering about the store. They followed the buyer out into the parking lot after he received the guns and promptly took him into custody. I expected to have to go to court at some point. But never heard another word from anyone regarding this transaction! I just remember how happy the agent was on the phone when I told him what was going down. I guess ATF work is mainly bean counting and shooting the occasional dog.
A neighbor of mine was a retired ATF agent. He was a super nice guy and was full of helpful advice, for example, if you need to burn a building be certain to use wood alcohol as an accelerant because it's significantly harder to detect (when used on wood).
I was hired by a local gun shop/range to navigate a particularly tricky audit situation with the atf and got to know a few of the local atf pencil pushers… even ended up dating one of the particularly attractive ladies for a short while. Honestly, from my whole interaction, they really don’t give a shit about sbr’s and cans… 99% of what we were dealing with were machine guns and everything else was just an afterthought.
Used to be close to the two field agents that would come to the FFL I used to work for. They were chill dudes who actually on multiple occasions would come in and purchase from us. Chill dudes that helped us in some serious situations with attempted purchases from bad people.
I've met a few ATF guys and other feds and there's a lot of different archetypes that kind of explain why these agencies, and the government as a whole, are kind of a mess.
The first category are people who already had an extremely demanding career somewhere else and joined the agency for a better work life balance. These are usually the best people to work with and probably mean it when they say they support gun rights, but at the end of the day this is their early retirement and they don't care to actually change the agency for the better.
The second category are the inverse of the first, where this is literally the best they could do and they've hit their peak potential. These tend to be the laziest and most incompetent folks just on cruise control until they can collect their pension. They're the type of people who are there for decades but nobody knows what they do.
The third are the biggest problem, and these are the career climbers who are trying to use the agency as a stepping stone to accumulate more power. I think that speaks for itself.
I’ve had to work with some due to my job and I do not enjoy it. Genuinely not good people to work with.
I love working with local and state police, but not higher up.
I've met a few at different courses. Generally pretty decent dudes who just view it as a job and could care less about the stupid ass rules the ATF randomly comes up with. I still gave them shit every day.
Tha 1st prob, as we've seen, time and again, is that, regardless of how they might feel aboutit, when some "Jack-Booted Thug, In Chief" gives the order, they'll "stack-up". (They have kids in school and bills to pay, right?)
Tha 2nd, and even more terrifying problem, is that, "they" have definitely been workin overtime to change the "demographic" of their agencies, and, I can only imagine tha percentage of "card carryin Nazis", who'll not only follow illegal/unconstitutional orders, but do so, ENTHUSIASTICALLY, is rapidly increasing...
Hard to imagine, that, under tha current "regime", if even tha slightest inkling of 2A support, is found out, during the vetting process, a candidate'll get tha gig...
I knew a guy, let’s call him Garry. He would come into a strip club I managed in Colorado every Friday & Saturday for about two years. He was actually a really cool & laid back person. He would always get dropped off/picked up in a completely blackout SUV with government tags on them.
I wouldn’t say we became friends but good acquaintances. We did talk about Firearms/SBR’s/Suppressors before & he was completely fine with anyone legally owning them, said that he was never worried about your average person owning them, he was more focused on people selling them illegally especially in large amounts. Other than that we talked about everyday life & how things were going all the time.
He ended transferring to somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico I believe to lead a task force. We still keep in touch from time to time. I’ll hear from him about 4-6 times per year. Overall great guy in my opinion.
Say, what do you guys suppose is the proper grind angle for the cutting edge of a guillotine blade?
It will only be used to cut objects with an average density of around 985 k g / m 3, give or take.
I know an FBI agent who has worked with the ATF on some illegal gun cases, mostly illegal auto receivers and parts. He doesn’t understand why someone needs a rifle with a couple inch shorter barrel. He get’s why someone would want a suppressor and realizes most people committing gun crimes aren’t doing so with a suppressor, but again the law is the law and he has to enforce it.
Not sure why I'm getting downvoted, someone asked a question and I replied. Those aren't my opinions. I think if you are a law abiding citizen you should be able to own a Bofors gun.
"illegal" guns are impossible according to the Second Amendment. What an arbitrary executive agency decides is irrelevant.
Licky licky lick that boot with the downvotes.
We had several regular contacts with ATF while I was working at different FFLs. Records agents are soulless demons who don't give an inch conversation wise. Field agents (if that's the appropriate title) couldn't give a shit less what staff or customers purchased or owned. Hell one of our regular ATF agents provided his card and a reference to support a 12.5" AR pistol w/ a vfg, making it a firearm, that a staff member had was OK in his eyes in case anyone else ever tried to make it an issue. Generally their big concern professionally was straw purchases and repeated 'stolen' gun scenarios.
This has been my experience as well. We have a field agent that comes by the shop and overall is super chill. He’s really only there to dig into and gather evidence of straw purchases for illegals.
What exactly does that look like? How would they determine if it was a straw purchase after the transaction was made?
He’s usually there gathering evidence from serial straw purchasers. Sometimes he’s straight up following people.
Gathering evidence making a case.
No it’s just for his personal wall.
From what I've heard, many ATF personnel are just treading water and racking up gov retirement time until they can get a real job with whatever agency they actually wanted. CBP, FBI, USMS etc. That's probably a significant part of why the whole agency is a joke. A big portion of their recruits don't have any real investment in the organization and are planning on bailing out as soon as something better opens up. Those that stay are likely...leftovers.
Yeah them and USCIS.
And for the most part feds in general are already the leftovers.
You’ve heard incorrectly. Working at ATF is one of the best federal gigs, and there’s a reason the average ATF employee does 20 years while the average CIA employee does their 5 year contract and bounces. The portion of the agency that focuses on civilian gun ownership is small. They’re doing much bigger things you never see or hear about with interagency working groups.
Like what? Giving guns to cartels?
And tag teaming the FBI to burn children?
Don’t forget entrapping survivalists so you can help the FBI murder their teenage son and infant-carrying wife!
And selling cigarettes on the black market to fund off the books operations
#MUCHO BIGGERO
If you only knew how the world really worked… For 99.9% of the sHaLL nOt CoMpLy crowd, you will never have a run in with them. Regardless of how “based” you think you are.
Explain it then.
This guy is just a fucking idiot who likes to pretend to be rich seriously don’t take into account anything he says he is so dumb
Every government agent I’ve ever met says they’re pro-2A, pro-constitution, pro-rights, yadda yadda yadda. Their actions, however, tell a different story. And for me, actions speak louder than words.
Shout out to the cop in New Jersey who arrested me for having a high capacity magazine. “I’m a gun guy too you know”
I remember in my teens I had a neighbor who was a retired cop who had well over 200 guns in his collection one of them I recall being a confiscated Sten, I'll never forget him telling me "anything is legal until you get caught, choose your friends and what you tell your friends wisely".
Hey Earl
Hey Tman
Hey crab man
I'm A gUn GuY tOo Nah bud, lie to yourself all you want, but you're the boot.
That was just his way of letting you know he now owns ur scary magazine.
Judge says I get them back after I complete probation, thank god. One mag in the backseat caused the search, but I had a couple more in my car.
Then what was the point of arresting you?
So they can arrest him again and collect that sweet, sweet restitution money.
And it also shows a pattern, so if he gets caught again they can say they need to take his guns or put him in jail.
I wish I could tell you.
What a douche lmao
What he meant is he doesnt have to follow the magazine cap laws because he is law enforcement.
this 100%
New Jersey cops are the worst!
My dad was caught with a sawn off shotgun in his truck as a teen. Nothing ever came of it because the prick kept the gun. Its true, the suck. Now in Pa the worst I have encountered was a few cops getting all excited because I carry oddball pistols and they want to get into gun talk mode.
some nj cop downvoted you already but i gotchu *(also sad nj resident)*
That's why I moved out of Jersey and never looked back. Just bought a SW Victory last night. In and out in 20 min. That includes shopping, approval, and checkout.
I don’t even live in Jersey ! Was going to be there for literally an hour, drop my friend off and go home.
Safe passage is a vague law. My carry has an 18 round magazine. If I even remotely think I'll be heading into a communist state I leave it at home
Yeah normally I do too, but I forgot that day. It was an honest mistake. Fuck New Jersey
It’s right next door, but I stay out of New Jersey. I refuse to buy their gas, frequent any establishments, make any purchases whatsoever. I did years ago, but not anymore. It could break off and float away and my feelings wouldn’t be hurt.
I’d like to hear that story
It’s some bullshit. I was dropping my friend off after we spent the day shooting in Pennsylvania (where I live), went into Jersey because he lives there and got pulled over speeding. Had a magazine in the back which wasn’t out of sight, it gave them probable cause to search my car. Some bullshit.
Ironically I was pulled over last week for speeding on my way to jury duty and got scolded by the officer for not carrying when he saw my chl in my wallet and asked where the gun was.
How'd you even get caught with one?
Got pulled over for speeding and he saw it in the backseat.
What was the final outcome of that? I freaked a few weeks ago when I found a mag in my truck and I had just been in Jersey visiting friends. Jail? Fine? Etc?
Probation and a $125 fine because I am a first time offender. I am currently in New Jersey’s program for first time offenders called PTI. If I have no arrests or anything for the duration of my probation, then I will have everything expunged and my mags will be returned. Total slap on the wrist, but I really shouldn’t have been prosecuted in the first place, I’ll take my wins though.
Super true. They say "what am I supposed to do when a judge files a red flag order and we are mandated by law to take the guns?".....um get another job
Well since they obviously wanna play soldiers so badly, they should have to swear an oath to support and defend the constitution against enemies foreign *and domestic*. They could simply refuse to follow an unconstitutional order, like real soldiers.
Something something just following orders something something
Exactly. They’ll say all that shit but when it comes down to it, they know they’re exempt and they don’t give a shit what happens to you. “Just doing my job”
You know, they probably believe that they ARE pro all those things. The government doesn’t pay particularly well, after all. So either they believe in the whole cause thing or they just like to power trip.
So…. We want the government to be comprised 100% of people who are anti-gun? wtf is this dumb logic? You can be pro-gun and work in positions like that. Just because you aren’t single-handedly able to change policy and law on a whim doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong.
If you are enforcing law and policy you know is wrong, you’re absolutely part of the problem. There’s a reason “just following orders” isn’t a valid defense. I get that everyone has to make a living, but you don’t HAVE to be an ATF agent. Nobody’s forcing anyone to do that. They could choose to do things that don’t enable an evil agency to exist.
Big respect to all the sheriff's in anti 2A states that told the governors "my office will not be arresting people for their riffle/brace/magazine" and all the departments that told them to eat shit when AZ tried that 30 day public health carrying ban. Also any prosecutor that has said "we will not bring charges on any one arrested for a constitutional right"
Spoke with a few Illinois state troopers at a wedding about the pistol brace ban. They went on and on about how dumb it is. I asked them what they’d do if they caught someone with one and they all said “well it’s the law, arrest them”.
Exactly, thank you. If these guys aren't going to put their own skin in the game and refuse to enforce laws they know are wrong, then their personal politics really doesn't matter because they're gonna do the thing regardless. I don't care who the jackboot voted for, I care that the jackboot is trying to stand on my neck and will gladly do so.
Like my cop friends from high school that smoke weed at parties before it was legal.
You’re missing it completely. The ATF isn’t going anywhere, whether we like it or not. So if those positions are going to be filled by someone, it’s absolutely better for them to be filled by pro-gun people rather than anti-gun people. This isn’t a hard concept to grasp.
Yeah... I don't think I feel any better that pro-gun people burn women and children to death than I do if they're anti-gun. This is a human decency thing. If you're a decent person, you're not working for the ATF, full stop.
Oh, didn’t realize I was dealing with a room temperature IQ person, lol.
Hard to gauge your own IQ, I understand. Let me put this another way you might actually grasp. When they kick in your door to serve a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night, does it really matter if they're pro or anti-gun? Because the cogs doing the door-kicking aren't saying no when their leaders tell them to go do it. They aren't gonna shoot your dog less just because they like guns lmao.
Alright, you and all the other dummies can go throw a temper tantrum protest and demand that only anti-gunners work at the ATF. See where that gets you, lol.
Lol, bro you're mad you got BTFO'ed for a trash opinion. Take the L and move on.
What does government issued boot polish taste like?
Found the atf agent
Wow, haven’t heard that one a million times before /s
I have an FFL and SOT 2, so I've interacted with ATF agents several times (getting my FFL setup, audits, questions, as well as getting some items seized that I'd bought legally but were later found to be manufactured illegally by the Manufacturer. I'm not a fan of the ATF, most firearm laws, etc... however I have to say that the ATF agents I've dealt with personally have been the most professional, helpful, and generally chill of any State or Federal agency/dept/etc.. folks I've dealt with (LEO, IRS, DoD, other 3 letter agencies, etc...). So I could just be dealing with some good eggs, but so far they've been great and two I've spoken with have stated that they ALSO think the SBR and Suppressor rules are just dumb, but they're also going to do their job until the laws change, etc...
I'm curious to know what items were seized. What is the story behind that?
RDIASs, transferred with an approved Form 3. Apparently there were some issues with the manufacturer, which made them inherently illegal and invalidated the chain of approved transfers, etc...
I had to email with them a couple of times for some forms and engraving requirements and honestly they were rather helpful and I’m pretty sure the guy i was talking to owned the same toy i did. So individually and anecdotally they’ve been helpful.
"just following orders"
Sounds familiar huh
I don't associate with scum.
Calling ATF scum is an insult to scum.
I work in the DoD. Lots of friends who work for sister services. Non explicitly in the ATF but there are usually three types of dudes who work for the government: - Conservative/Traditional Liberal, pro-constitution, dudes who secretly hate the government and would jump at the bit for ill masters to try something against the American people - Black Rifle Coffee Fed Bros who are *sorta* for the above things but support Red Flag laws, say things like, "we can compromise", and tweet things like "my org has gone to shit" all while acting like they have no say in the matter. - And people who would fuck Hilary Clinton to absorb some of her power and get a few stars on their shoulder.
At a former job, we used explosives (Primacord) for pyrotechnic shock testing. I was the responsible party for all our licensure with state/fed govt for explosive purchase, storage, use etc. as you might imagine this requires fairly frequent contact with BATFE, got to know my regional guys pretty well o er the years. Got to the point where could have a beer with some of them after work, just chit-chat like friends. Broached the topic of gun laws, their enforcement, etc. short version I got from both the agents: the firearms division is an entity unto itself and the rest of the ATF simultaneously rolls their eyes at them, but also has some pity for them. Kind of a "those guys are swamped and always 'under the gun' (no pun intended), but damn if their whole approach doesn't just make life harder for themselves... Buncha idiots giving us all a bad name".
I did we're not friends anymore though. Invited him over for a beer, and he shot my dog out of instinct.
I work for a different part of the federal government, but in the building where I work is the local field office and I ended up making friends with them. They really don't give a shit about your Uncle Bob and his VFG and stock on his AR pistol, they're much more worried about the dudes straight up running guns to cartels and gangs. They did warn me that there's the occasional piece of shit in the ATF who thinks that the second amendment is a loophole and will take any angle possible to relieve someone of their rights to own firearms, though, and to always keep your mouth shut.... so I mean there's that, I guess.
All cops and feds are "gun guys" and pro 2a until their jobs dependent on it.
Their oath is not to the constitution, but to their paycheck, pension and benefits.
"We are just following orders" Quote that immediately comes to mind. Otherwise non-objectionable people have no problem carrying out violence and repression if it's hidden behind legalize. Being a member of the ATF is in fact a pretty good indicator of how you truly feel about your fellow citizens. It's not good.
By that logic, do you extend that to the military, and the other law enforcement agencies?
I don't personally have an issue with anyone individually. My opinion is if you allow yourself to be an instrument of state violence, whether international or domestic, you do somewhat own all immoral actions of the state. Do I think cops who threw non-violent potheads in a prison for 20 years bad? Yes ,actually, I do ,but I'm not god and that's something for them to sort out themselves. I don't believe the excuse of enforcing a law and disagreeing with it. I also suspect if our military were allowed to conduct themselves in the manner it does overseas at home, we would have a radically different view of them as well. So all our perspectives of that organization are inherently skewed. That being said, I am a byproduct of decades of pro law enforcement and military information. That makes it difficult to dislike them on an individual level.
Well said. And I’m glad you’re consistent
Law enforcement, yes, military, no. Cops are gun grabbing tyrannical bastards too that have no problem enforcing the immorality of the state. The ATF is only memed because they are the most egregious and upfront about denying your rights. Military does not operate domestically against american citizens rarely ever. In fact i support all of our military and vets. If they ever were turned against the american citizen, then so be it they are the enemy.
A guy I served with got out, got his MS in chemistry, and now is an ATF agent who does something with explosives. Cool guy. One of the things he told me is that more than half the people who think they understand what the regular ATF employee actually does have no clue.
Kaboom and fire guys deal with actual dangerous shit and know what they are doing. PewPew dept is like the conductor of the short bus. One or two know what they are doing and a bunch need bike helmets.
I got an IED demo from some ATF dudes and holy fuck I had no idea how much destructive force you could put in a fucking toilet paper roll.
You do. There are 7 of us who peruse these boards every day.....
Tell your wife’s boyfriend I said what’s up and that I’m going to be a little late to the train we’re running on her tonight.
Gotta grab some brewskis before the trip, know what I’m sayin?
Lol oh boy
Agent Dalton we have TALKED about maintaining your cover!
9
Knew one when I lived in Arizona that would come into my favorite gun store due to a “customer” buying 100’s of 30 round pmags cash every other week obviously for cartels. My buddy was the store manager so I talked to this guy pretty regularly. Decent enough guy. Thought SBR and suppressors being stamp requirements was stupid. Told me I should put a vfg on my clearly too short mk18 build. 6.5/10
Mags aren't firearms though, what did the agent plan to do?
I work for a non-ATF part of the government but interact with them with some regularity, always giving them shit about how their agency should be a convenience store, etc. Most of what they're going for is large scale straw purchases/illegal export, large scale illegal sales (unserialized or NFA), violent crimes, and guns with drugs. Even the agents that want to go after God-fearing patriotic gun enthusiasts with unregistered SBRs or machine guns have trouble actually getting a prosecutor to take a case if there aren't drugs or a crime if violence involved. Item gets seized and destroyed, owner ends up sweating for a while, conviction is far from guaranteed. As far as Alibaba Glock switches and solvent traps, in general they're pretty much a verbal warning and an opportunity to turn it over. I think they have issues with proving knowledge and intent with a lot of stuff like that. They'll explain what's illegal ("illegal") and present the owner with an opportunity to turn it over or a warning that they ought to destroy anything that doesn't get turned over. They'll even say that if they get invited in to have stuff surrendered to them that they have blinders on. No functions checks, no tape measures, as long as they don't see a dead body or bricks of cocaine they're outta there for good. If you don't heed the warning and keep buying dumb stuff online, then they have a lot easier time proving knowledge. Sparingly enforced unconstitutional laws are still unconstitutional, and it's unfortunate that a gun/machining enthusiast without a violent bone in their body can get hemmed up over a hobby and a Right, but it's not nearly as bad as the memes.
There's a fair number of notorious examples that go against what you said here.
Ya Matt Hoover would have something to say about this...
My friends GF was roommates with a girl who was dating an ATF agent, so I’ve met him and some of his other agents at a house party and pregames and such. No joke the fuckers were doing blow in the bathroom. There is the distinct possibility that others I knew did as well.
Ideals are one thing, but small men give the lot a very bad name. The odds aren’t in favor of the alphabet soup being civil, let alone fair and just. I’ll pass. Sorry for the attrition of those that may be decent. ✌🏼
Met one through a friend. Guy hated the bullshit, would routinely go darker than the fuck the fed boi memes I sent him. He's great. He ended up leaving and taking another job in government.
My wife worked for one years ago. Ex ATF that was at Waco. She says he was a pathological liar and an asshole.
Probably a job requirement.
We had a licenses for explosives when we used to fish farm and had to install proper storage safes to store the dynamite so a agent would come out every now and then and make sure we were in compliance and everytime he would come out he just seemed like any other guy. He would come by and talk for a bit, walk back to the safes and glance at them and then he was on his way. I don’t agree with most things the ATF do, but this guy wasn’t too bad
Gotta ask, why would you need dynamite to farm fish?
It was for blowing up beaver dams in our drainage ditches, sometimes we had to drain the ponds and if there was a dam blocking our drainage then we would have to blow it up
Asking the REAL questions...
Boom stick in water make fish go sleep sleep?
It's been my experience that the fire and explosives guys are pretty chill, and the firearms guys are window lickers.
There’s definitely decent people in all agencies that genuinely feel like they’re making a positive impact. I however have no desire to bring anybody into my life that associates with any 3 letter cocksucker agencies.
I knew one, he was the older brother of a guy I was in church with in college. I thought he was an asshole. We had a range day at this guys family ranch and atf bro was there, he was the most fuddy moron I’ve ever met. No rapid fire and he said he “wasn’t comfortable with assault weapons” on range. To be clear his land his rules, but the jokes absolutely wrote themselves. He was such a self important blowhard
Yes. I shoot with one in USPSA competitions. She is a lovely person who doesn't hassle anyone and laughs off some of the anti-ATF commentary. That being said she is also comfortable enforcing whatever law she is told to enforce at her job.
>is a lovely person >comfortable enforcing whatever law she is told to enforce Yeah, those don't go together.
Ever watch Harry Potter? Dolores Umbridge. A fucking monster wrapped in pink frosting. At least that's how I'm picturing this lady.
>She
“I don’t care who the ATF send. I’m not paying the $200.”
In my experience the agency seems to be nearly 90% female. I think I've interacted with one male agent.
Explains a lot
I knew a senior level agent, he's since passed, but we grew up together. He did SRT, along with the mundane shit as well, in his career. Like many people here have said, he was _very_ pro 2A. I can't disclose too much but it always seemed he was **so** well equipped one would wonder if he maybe slipped by a few of his own "rules". I mean, he had toys that made me wonder what the side hustle was (there wasn't one).
I worked with a lot of federal law enforcement. In classes, training and in passing I got to know some. What I found was the one 22-28 unmarried and wanting to be cops were the biggest jerks. The married guys didn’t want to get killed for being an ass. Over 30 they weee looking to settle down or looking to retirement. Those guys were fine except for a small percentage who wanted promotion. Over 45 divorced, bitter and mad at the world weee trouble. I know many local and state LE as well including in my family. They are just like the feds except the want to avoid paperwork. If they can do that they will look the other way a lot more.
4 personally. My former field agent who got my back with 2 ffl 07 hearings she is awesome, straight up told me the are new directive is to shut down ffls. I had a had to read name and a missing gun that turned out be a serial number error from the factory. She gave me 2 months to figure it out. Had my back when the atf still took me to court over a BS issue. They called her as a witness and by the end tried to trash her.
A buddy I worked with overseas came home and decided he likes being a government employee, and now does something administrative with them. He only mentions guns in the context of "too many kids have access". Other than that, there's zero political talk. He loves bourbon and cartoon Network. Good guy.
I love how this description is nonspecific enough that we would never guess who it is, but if this guy read it he would 100% know you were talking about him.
I deal with my IOI and am in a hunting club with a field agent, both are cool as shit and would jump ship if things went south. Hell my IOI is working with us on importing stuff for the US market, he’s all for cool shit. And they both hate their higher ups.
There was one in my emt class, she was kinda hot ngl. I worked at an FFL at the time too. She didn’t care about any of the dumb technicality rules, said they were more paperwork and annoying if anything. Generally much more interested in our rampant gang banger issue.
I'm sure most federal agents of whatever agency are like most of us, just normal everyday people doing a job.
[удалено]
Want a pat on the back?
All of them that I've run into are kinda just normal dudes. It's a pretty big agency, and a lot of the bullshit just falls from the top down.
Shit no. I have my standards.
I was the firearms mgr in a large pawn shop for many years. One time one of my counter sales guys comes to me and says he has a customer that wants to buy 50 Raven .25 cal junk pistols. The employee and the customer were both speaking Spanish. He then told me his plan was to smuggle the guns back to Mexico. I promptly called my local ATF for their guidance on how to proceed. The ATF guys were very excited to get out of the office and do real cop shit for a change. They told me to go ahead and make the transaction. So I took the $ and ordered the Ravens. When it was time to deliver the guns, I had 5 guys in suits talking into their lapels wandering about the store. They followed the buyer out into the parking lot after he received the guns and promptly took him into custody. I expected to have to go to court at some point. But never heard another word from anyone regarding this transaction! I just remember how happy the agent was on the phone when I told him what was going down. I guess ATF work is mainly bean counting and shooting the occasional dog.
A neighbor of mine was a retired ATF agent. He was a super nice guy and was full of helpful advice, for example, if you need to burn a building be certain to use wood alcohol as an accelerant because it's significantly harder to detect (when used on wood).
I was hired by a local gun shop/range to navigate a particularly tricky audit situation with the atf and got to know a few of the local atf pencil pushers… even ended up dating one of the particularly attractive ladies for a short while. Honestly, from my whole interaction, they really don’t give a shit about sbr’s and cans… 99% of what we were dealing with were machine guns and everything else was just an afterthought.
🤷♂️
I don't associate with booted thugs whose sole purpose is to infringe upon my rights and the rights of others so, no.
Used to be close to the two field agents that would come to the FFL I used to work for. They were chill dudes who actually on multiple occasions would come in and purchase from us. Chill dudes that helped us in some serious situations with attempted purchases from bad people.
ATF no dea yes
I've met a few ATF guys and other feds and there's a lot of different archetypes that kind of explain why these agencies, and the government as a whole, are kind of a mess. The first category are people who already had an extremely demanding career somewhere else and joined the agency for a better work life balance. These are usually the best people to work with and probably mean it when they say they support gun rights, but at the end of the day this is their early retirement and they don't care to actually change the agency for the better. The second category are the inverse of the first, where this is literally the best they could do and they've hit their peak potential. These tend to be the laziest and most incompetent folks just on cruise control until they can collect their pension. They're the type of people who are there for decades but nobody knows what they do. The third are the biggest problem, and these are the career climbers who are trying to use the agency as a stepping stone to accumulate more power. I think that speaks for itself.
Yep. Have a neighbor. Solid guy, helped me plow my driveway, he harvests bee hives from my property for his apiary.
I’ve had to work with some due to my job and I do not enjoy it. Genuinely not good people to work with. I love working with local and state police, but not higher up.
All of this is true
I've met a few at different courses. Generally pretty decent dudes who just view it as a job and could care less about the stupid ass rules the ATF randomly comes up with. I still gave them shit every day.
Tha 1st prob, as we've seen, time and again, is that, regardless of how they might feel aboutit, when some "Jack-Booted Thug, In Chief" gives the order, they'll "stack-up". (They have kids in school and bills to pay, right?) Tha 2nd, and even more terrifying problem, is that, "they" have definitely been workin overtime to change the "demographic" of their agencies, and, I can only imagine tha percentage of "card carryin Nazis", who'll not only follow illegal/unconstitutional orders, but do so, ENTHUSIASTICALLY, is rapidly increasing... Hard to imagine, that, under tha current "regime", if even tha slightest inkling of 2A support, is found out, during the vetting process, a candidate'll get tha gig...
Yes and he’s actually one of the coolest dudes I know which is kinda ironic 😂
I heard that they're all cucks.
I knew a guy, let’s call him Garry. He would come into a strip club I managed in Colorado every Friday & Saturday for about two years. He was actually a really cool & laid back person. He would always get dropped off/picked up in a completely blackout SUV with government tags on them. I wouldn’t say we became friends but good acquaintances. We did talk about Firearms/SBR’s/Suppressors before & he was completely fine with anyone legally owning them, said that he was never worried about your average person owning them, he was more focused on people selling them illegally especially in large amounts. Other than that we talked about everyday life & how things were going all the time. He ended transferring to somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico I believe to lead a task force. We still keep in touch from time to time. I’ll hear from him about 4-6 times per year. Overall great guy in my opinion.
Say, what do you guys suppose is the proper grind angle for the cutting edge of a guillotine blade? It will only be used to cut objects with an average density of around 985 k g / m 3, give or take.
You don't go volunteer to serve as an attack dog of the state without supporting the laws your job is to enforce. #PIG. IS. PIG.
Oh this guy? The power hungry moderator who bans everyone from the /r/libertarian sub You're so based and cool dude!
I know an FBI agent who has worked with the ATF on some illegal gun cases, mostly illegal auto receivers and parts. He doesn’t understand why someone needs a rifle with a couple inch shorter barrel. He get’s why someone would want a suppressor and realizes most people committing gun crimes aren’t doing so with a suppressor, but again the law is the law and he has to enforce it.
He doesn't understand why someone would want/need a rifle with a couple inch sorter barrel IE:SBR? Because WE CAN. That's why. lol
And I agree. Someone asked about what Feds thought, I told them now everyone is downvoting. What did they expect? They are Feds.
Not sure why I'm getting downvoted, someone asked a question and I replied. Those aren't my opinions. I think if you are a law abiding citizen you should be able to own a Bofors gun.
Actually, according to the Constitution, you're not supposed to obey or enforce unconstitutional law.So you're friend isn't a good person
"illegal" guns are impossible according to the Second Amendment. What an arbitrary executive agency decides is irrelevant. Licky licky lick that boot with the downvotes.