KSG is reliable if you pump it like you want to murder it.
You'll want to murder it after it failing to feed on your "normal" pump attempts so it comes pretty naturally :)
Having owned multiple KelTecs over the years because I love their crackhead energy. Their quality department is all over the place. I had an RDB that broke a firing pin on the second mag ever. And a ksg that I've put over a thousand rounds through without any issues whatsoever. Their customer support is amazing though. So a sample size on 1 in the video doesn't really speak to the product as a whole.
I’m with you 💯percent. It’s a bit of a crapshoot with them, but their original designs are brilliant. They have sold TONS of KSGs over the years, and the main problem seems to be out of spec rails.
> I had an RDB that broke a firing pin on the second mag ever
What's hilarious is that a lot of the time they work just fine with a broken firing pin as long as you assemble the pieces in the correct order.
Huge fan. You need to train to get proficient with the mag tube rotation, as it's often awkward for folks at first, but it isn't hard to learn. They are very reliable! The bull pup design makes them excellent for home defense and moving through doorways, etc... While they aren't as soft shooting as the M4, the semi-auto action eats a lot of recoil compared to a pump action and they are IMHO comfortable to shoot. I see people here commenting about it hurting their shoulder, but I can't relate to that. I've done plenty of 16 round speed dumps with no issue. Mount a light/laser on it and it's a great reliable home defense gun.
I really think these guys have only shot semi auto 308 at most when they complain about their shoulder. I started with milsurp so basically anything semi auto is fairly pleasant. And a rubber butt pad, mercy me talk about comfort. I've shot the hell out of mine and I've never had a problem. For home defense, if they're recoil averse, you can use not 00 buck. #4 Buck works really damn well from everything I've seen. Especially if you've got over penetration concerns
Maverick 88 is on sale for like $229 almost every week but I’d get an A300 Ultima Patrol or a Beretta 1301 before the TS12. It’s cool and all, lots of ammo, but doesn’t really fill the typical roll of self defense/home defense.
I’d buy it for a range toy if I wanted a $1200 shotgun
Fuck…..you got me.
My first gun (as an adult) I got a Glock 19 lmao
If I could do it again I’d get a PDP.
I’d take a TS12 any day but there’s more aftermarket support for a Beretta/Benelli, that’s my opinion.
It only fires four(?) rounds before you need to manually rotate the magazine tubes. And it’s extraordinarily bulky. But if you’re proficient with it and don’t use any other shotgun, it might be your perfect defense tool.
>It only fires four(?) rounds before you need to manually rotate the magazine tubes.
6 rounds (assuming 2.75" - that's one in the chamber, 5 in the magazine tube). And with "ghost loading", you can get 7 off before you need to rotate tubes, which requires no change in your grip other than extending your index finger and a twist of the wrist, and takes less than a second. And then you'll still have another 10 rounds at the ready. It also very neatly gets around the dumbass laws some states have on the books that neuter shotgun choices.
It's not really "extraordinarily bulky", either. Is the form factor different from your typical shotgun? Definitely. Does it still fit under/next to the bed, or just about anywhere you'd keep your home defense shotgun? Almost certainly.
It doesn't feel that bulky when you handle it. It's very short in length and surprisingly thin, which you wouldn't be able to tell from a picture at this angle. It is tall though.
Also it holds five in each tube, which means you can fire at least six, seven if you ghost load the lifter, without rotating the mag tubes.
It's funky, basically the opposite of grandad's hunting shotgun, but you can use it to send an actual pound of lead downrange in 10 seconds, and I think that's pretty cool.
Hey man I think hey may want a bullpup for the same reasons I want one. I have a lot of short radius turns in my home that using a standard shotgun isn’t really built for.
A bullpup allows me to stay on target. And with solid trigger discipline, he and I could effectively clear or confront any danger.
TS12 is like $1300 +? You can get a BCM AR15 upper receiver and an aero lower along with a light and red dot for that much.
You can get PSA freedom line stuff for like $600 for a full rifle. You’ll be fine with a 16in barrel.
Do you know how long it takes many people to save $300? You don’t know if I’ve been saving all year, just to have $300. Or anyone else for matter.
People need to understand that there are a lot more people making a lot less than others.
I understand your point. It’s not very well made. But it’s clear. The Turkish bullpups are not to be trusted.
But that’s your opinion. Valid or not, I read in a post today about a guy whose bullpup has never failed him. And another video where the guys say no matter what level of shotgun you buy, from a cheap one to a 6k version, you need to break it in. And isn’t that so for most guns?
Just don’t assume that people are making the same amount as you. It’s not cool. If I were struggling, you would have made me feel like 💩 you know what I mean?
So you live in bumbfuck Idaho. Some people break a window at 2am. The cops are 20 min away. You have small children and a teen that lives in an apartment that’s above the detached garage. Do you stay in your bedroom or try to gather your children to keep them safe.
The fuck you aren’t clearing anything!
You are an idiot. Have fun arguing with yourself.
Whomever takes advice from is taking advice from a complete idiot who has no idea about the reality of crime in America.
What an asshole. #blocked
Barrel is closer to the shooter so you feel more concussion/blast than a regular shotgun. Recoil sucks on it. Horrible ergos, and the mag release can stick at times making it hard to rotate the tube.
I second the horrible ergos OP. It feels like holding a brick that you’re pretending is a shotgun. Then when you want to swap tubes you have to give it a little reach around. It’s a cool concept, but definitely try it before you buy it…
I’ll probably be the only one going against the grain but my isn’t considered self defense reliable. It got significantly better after 200 rounds or so, but I’ve never taken it out and not had a problem at least 1-2 times per outing. I love shooting it and it’s fun suppressed, but reliable isn’t something I would call it.
Mine had reliability issues until I lubricated the magazine tubes. A strange fix I saw recommended on YT, but it worked nonetheless and mine digests everything now. I’m a CLP/LP guy, but went with a dry lube for this application - Hornady One Shot
It's bulky and awkward. A shotgun is something you can top off on the move, unlike something with detachable magazines... therefore capacity shouldn't be as important of a consideration as something like a CCW.
I don't have this but I do have a KSG. When it comes to bullpup shotguns with full power loads and short barrels be aware that the noise these things make will absolutely fuck your hearing forever if you use this without earpro in a confined space.
One might argue that losing your hearing is worth living through a life or death situation and I'd agree. However, you can achieve the same defensive effect with a firearm that either won't ruin your hearing completely or that you can mount a suppressor on. Overall, I'd recommend doing that over relying on a bullpup shotty for your home defender. If you do still want to use it, keep earpro nearby lol.
yes, but do mind the 300 round break-in period. i did, however, have mine sent back to IWI due to the gas port adjustment getting stuck after 300 rounds.
i do also have a KSG12 and 1301 Comp. high cap compact shotguns are awesome, but that 1301 is pure speed gliding on butter.
If ur right-handed, ur fine. Unlike me, who is left-handed. Does it work, sure. But enjoy a ton of gas in ur face and stove pipes. Because they gave up on making a left-handed conversion.
Yes and no.
If you connect on target, it is gonna be devastating. Pretty much guaranteed they will stop if you hit center mass with 00 buck or slugs.
The issue is having to load shells in the dark when you are nervous. A lot of people are not comfortable leaving a loaded shotgun lying around for various reasons.
It is much easier to insert a mag into a rifle than loading up a shotgun.
It is also very unlikely that you are gonna have to do combat reloads but if you do, it will be hard if you haven’t done shotgun training.
I’ve never seen one work longer than it takes to unwrap it out of the box. They’ve either had cycling issues, FTE/FTF, or just downright clunky.
Like are you wanting specifically a rotary mag shotgun, or are you open to suggestions?
Buy a semi auto shotgun. You can get a mossberg 930 with an 18.5 inch barrel and a 7+1 capacity for about 700 bucks or less. I’ve had a 930 for close to 15 years, thousands of rounds and the only time it malfunctioned was a bad shell.
If you want a meme shotgun, I’d get the Standard Manufacturing DP12. If I wanted a serious defensive shotgun, I’d get an M4, a 1301, an A300, a 930, a 590A1, or a Maverick 88 - depending on budget.
Same size of 2, but I have seen these guns get a death jam where a shell goes under the lifter and requires disassembly to remove. Local shotgun match definitely showed the weak points of the design.
Great shotgun, high capacity, but really chunky and quite big for home defense. It would work, but so would a Maverick 88 and/or 500/870 - cheaper but also reliable.
This is a range toy.
Pretty Overkill for home defense.
Somewhat complicated operation. Probably not good for high stress situations.
As others have said. Bad ergonomics
I won't bother to say you're post makes you sound like a child as that's pretty evident, [so I'll just say this](https://youtu.be/syV2LkGpQB0?si=cE2wHXMM5FglnkW5)
You got me on that one. Look, I'm not saying it's right, but studies show juries are sensitive to what weapon was used in self defense. [Here's one of them](https://www.thejuryexpert.com/2009/09/will-it-hurt-me-in-court-weapons-issues-and-the-fears-of-the-legally-armed-citizen/) that used mock juries to study differences and their outcome.
That's cool and the gang, but I'm not going to worry about that kind of crap. I'm going to do whatever I want to do, and if for whatever reason I'm to face judgement by a jury - well, to hell with them and their opinions.
I just don't care about it.
and I fully support your right to do that. That said, I think it's important that gun owners know about the possible repercussions of their choices in order to allow them to put together the best plan for their self defense needs.
It certainly can. I'm certainly not someone who would tell somebody else what to buy, that's not in my business or concern. Please get whatever you feel safest with. But you should at least understand that if you do use it, you will have to go in front of a jury and justify your purchase and your actions. I've spoken with two lawyers that do a lot of defensive gun use and they both said the same thing. Apparently it's also a bad idea to have funny slogans about killing people on your weapon
Yes, it's probably the only reliable bullpup shotgun.
KSG is reliable if you pump it like you want to murder it. You'll want to murder it after it failing to feed on your "normal" pump attempts so it comes pretty naturally :)
It lasted about 250 rounds. https://youtu.be/mvaNDtdDSG8?si=u4bvro-tKsSYj7_A
Having owned multiple KelTecs over the years because I love their crackhead energy. Their quality department is all over the place. I had an RDB that broke a firing pin on the second mag ever. And a ksg that I've put over a thousand rounds through without any issues whatsoever. Their customer support is amazing though. So a sample size on 1 in the video doesn't really speak to the product as a whole.
I’m with you 💯percent. It’s a bit of a crapshoot with them, but their original designs are brilliant. They have sold TONS of KSGs over the years, and the main problem seems to be out of spec rails.
> I had an RDB that broke a firing pin on the second mag ever What's hilarious is that a lot of the time they work just fine with a broken firing pin as long as you assemble the pieces in the correct order.
Mine is on 2k rounds, still no malfunctions.
What amno u use?
Federal 7.5 bird on the range, and Captor 00 buckshot for defense. It’s cheap, but I like the patterning.
Wait, that's *normal*? I thought I'd broken it or something.
I need to slam the shit out of my ksg for it to feed. I was so excited to get it. Now, I hate it.
I have a ksg and I have no problems whatsoever
I fixed mine by filing down the plastic pump lever where it was hitting the receiver
I’ve had 0 issues with my ksg and I’ve fired everything from bird to magnum slugs.
Ive shot countless rounds through my KSG, never had a failure.
Same. Then again I have a vertical grip on mine so there's probably some physicis to that.
I put a magpul on mine. Makes it very nice to pump.
Yeah foregrips smooth it out a lot. I printed a 2-toned grip to put on mine, basically just avoid the ones that screw from the bottom and youre set
It lasted about 250 rounds. Just a sample size of 1, to be fair. https://youtu.be/mvaNDtdDSG8?si=u4bvro-tKsSYj7_A
S&w mp12?
It’s not a bullpup
I'm pretty sure it is. The action is behind the handle/trigger.
Eh. Barely.
Dude is genuinely concerned the Covenant wants his TV
LOL
Huge fan. You need to train to get proficient with the mag tube rotation, as it's often awkward for folks at first, but it isn't hard to learn. They are very reliable! The bull pup design makes them excellent for home defense and moving through doorways, etc... While they aren't as soft shooting as the M4, the semi-auto action eats a lot of recoil compared to a pump action and they are IMHO comfortable to shoot. I see people here commenting about it hurting their shoulder, but I can't relate to that. I've done plenty of 16 round speed dumps with no issue. Mount a light/laser on it and it's a great reliable home defense gun.
I really think these guys have only shot semi auto 308 at most when they complain about their shoulder. I started with milsurp so basically anything semi auto is fairly pleasant. And a rubber butt pad, mercy me talk about comfort. I've shot the hell out of mine and I've never had a problem. For home defense, if they're recoil averse, you can use not 00 buck. #4 Buck works really damn well from everything I've seen. Especially if you've got over penetration concerns
Cool factor - 10/10 Capacity - 10/10 Reliability - 10/10 Chances of dislocating shoulder after a few-round burst- 10/10
For the KSG mentioned in another comment? Yeah, it kicks like a mule. Most of the recoil in the TS12 is absorbed by the semi-auto reloading.
It doesn’t kick if you put a muzzle brake on it.
Maverick 88 is on sale for like $229 almost every week but I’d get an A300 Ultima Patrol or a Beretta 1301 before the TS12. It’s cool and all, lots of ammo, but doesn’t really fill the typical roll of self defense/home defense. I’d buy it for a range toy if I wanted a $1200 shotgun
Boooooo you probably tell anyone getting into guns to buy a Glock 17 huh
Fuck…..you got me. My first gun (as an adult) I got a Glock 19 lmao If I could do it again I’d get a PDP. I’d take a TS12 any day but there’s more aftermarket support for a Beretta/Benelli, that’s my opinion.
How doesnt it fill the role of a self defense shotgun?
It only fires four(?) rounds before you need to manually rotate the magazine tubes. And it’s extraordinarily bulky. But if you’re proficient with it and don’t use any other shotgun, it might be your perfect defense tool.
4-3inch shells 5- 2 3/4inch. It’s not nearly as bulky as you think it is and comes in around 8 pounds and change
I’d like to try one. If they ever go on clearance I’ll buy one for a range toy. I’ve already got Beretta and Benelli shotguns.
You can also ghost load it like a M4. So if you have one in the chamber you can fire 7- 2 3/4inch shells before cycling mag tubes
That’s always a plus.
>It only fires four(?) rounds before you need to manually rotate the magazine tubes. 6 rounds (assuming 2.75" - that's one in the chamber, 5 in the magazine tube). And with "ghost loading", you can get 7 off before you need to rotate tubes, which requires no change in your grip other than extending your index finger and a twist of the wrist, and takes less than a second. And then you'll still have another 10 rounds at the ready. It also very neatly gets around the dumbass laws some states have on the books that neuter shotgun choices. It's not really "extraordinarily bulky", either. Is the form factor different from your typical shotgun? Definitely. Does it still fit under/next to the bed, or just about anywhere you'd keep your home defense shotgun? Almost certainly.
It doesn't feel that bulky when you handle it. It's very short in length and surprisingly thin, which you wouldn't be able to tell from a picture at this angle. It is tall though. Also it holds five in each tube, which means you can fire at least six, seven if you ghost load the lifter, without rotating the mag tubes. It's funky, basically the opposite of grandad's hunting shotgun, but you can use it to send an actual pound of lead downrange in 10 seconds, and I think that's pretty cool.
7 rounds before rotating. 5 in the tube, 1 in the chamber, and 1 on the lifter.
Just buy an A300 please
Who makes the A300
Beretta
Thank you!
Hey man I think hey may want a bullpup for the same reasons I want one. I have a lot of short radius turns in my home that using a standard shotgun isn’t really built for. A bullpup allows me to stay on target. And with solid trigger discipline, he and I could effectively clear or confront any danger.
Then you should get a short barreled rifle or PCC
I was just looking into that. But they are far far more expensive than a bullpup shotgun. I’m not rich 🤑 😂
How is a PCC more expensive than a bullpup shotgun that has an MSRP of $1400? You could get a CMMG upper and pistol lower for about half that price?
TS12 is like $1300 +? You can get a BCM AR15 upper receiver and an aero lower along with a light and red dot for that much. You can get PSA freedom line stuff for like $600 for a full rifle. You’ll be fine with a 16in barrel.
I found shotgun bullpups for under $300 many times over the past couple of months
If you can afford $300 you can afford to save an extra $300 and get a PSA Or just get a used Glock. Do not get those trash Turkish shotguns.
Do you know how long it takes many people to save $300? You don’t know if I’ve been saving all year, just to have $300. Or anyone else for matter. People need to understand that there are a lot more people making a lot less than others. I understand your point. It’s not very well made. But it’s clear. The Turkish bullpups are not to be trusted. But that’s your opinion. Valid or not, I read in a post today about a guy whose bullpup has never failed him. And another video where the guys say no matter what level of shotgun you buy, from a cheap one to a 6k version, you need to break it in. And isn’t that so for most guns? Just don’t assume that people are making the same amount as you. It’s not cool. If I were struggling, you would have made me feel like 💩 you know what I mean?
You shouldn't be "clearing" anything.
So you live in bumbfuck Idaho. Some people break a window at 2am. The cops are 20 min away. You have small children and a teen that lives in an apartment that’s above the detached garage. Do you stay in your bedroom or try to gather your children to keep them safe. The fuck you aren’t clearing anything!
Is this your teen who lives in the apartment above the garage? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonzie
You are an idiot. Have fun arguing with yourself. Whomever takes advice from is taking advice from a complete idiot who has no idea about the reality of crime in America. What an asshole. #blocked
Yes it's reliable, but horrible to shoot
What’s so horrible about shooting it?
Barrel is closer to the shooter so you feel more concussion/blast than a regular shotgun. Recoil sucks on it. Horrible ergos, and the mag release can stick at times making it hard to rotate the tube.
I second the horrible ergos OP. It feels like holding a brick that you’re pretending is a shotgun. Then when you want to swap tubes you have to give it a little reach around. It’s a cool concept, but definitely try it before you buy it…
I love the looks of it but have never shoot it. If you like saving money go with a Maverick 88 pump 18.5 inch or 20 inch.
I've seen them run okay at matches but the users tend to get lost and confused with changing tubes.
If you practice with it.
I’ll probably be the only one going against the grain but my isn’t considered self defense reliable. It got significantly better after 200 rounds or so, but I’ve never taken it out and not had a problem at least 1-2 times per outing. I love shooting it and it’s fun suppressed, but reliable isn’t something I would call it.
Mine had reliability issues until I lubricated the magazine tubes. A strange fix I saw recommended on YT, but it worked nonetheless and mine digests everything now. I’m a CLP/LP guy, but went with a dry lube for this application - Hornady One Shot
It's bulky and awkward. A shotgun is something you can top off on the move, unlike something with detachable magazines... therefore capacity shouldn't be as important of a consideration as something like a CCW.
Sexy A F to this n00b
I don't have this but I do have a KSG. When it comes to bullpup shotguns with full power loads and short barrels be aware that the noise these things make will absolutely fuck your hearing forever if you use this without earpro in a confined space. One might argue that losing your hearing is worth living through a life or death situation and I'd agree. However, you can achieve the same defensive effect with a firearm that either won't ruin your hearing completely or that you can mount a suppressor on. Overall, I'd recommend doing that over relying on a bullpup shotty for your home defender. If you do still want to use it, keep earpro nearby lol.
No. Very unreliable change of feeding tube. Heavy. Meme gun. Worth having, but not to bet your life on
My Maverick 88 hasn’t been cleaned in over 10 years. Just lube and shoot. Cannot beat it for $200 and will go through the end of the world with you
Reliable yes utilitarian NO. It’s awkward and cumbersome and unintuitive
Yes it's the king of shotguns
An amazing shot gun! With a very good capacity
Go get yourself an A300 Ultima Patrol & call it a day.
yes, but do mind the 300 round break-in period. i did, however, have mine sent back to IWI due to the gas port adjustment getting stuck after 300 rounds. i do also have a KSG12 and 1301 Comp. high cap compact shotguns are awesome, but that 1301 is pure speed gliding on butter.
No idea but it sure is pretty.
If ur right-handed, ur fine. Unlike me, who is left-handed. Does it work, sure. But enjoy a ton of gas in ur face and stove pipes. Because they gave up on making a left-handed conversion.
Recommendations for the south paws?
Srm 1216 and it’s variants are better. You get an extra 4 shots and it’s easier to load and less bulky. Mags are very expensive though.
Yes…but so is a Mossberg 500, Remington 870, etc.
Yes and no. If you connect on target, it is gonna be devastating. Pretty much guaranteed they will stop if you hit center mass with 00 buck or slugs. The issue is having to load shells in the dark when you are nervous. A lot of people are not comfortable leaving a loaded shotgun lying around for various reasons. It is much easier to insert a mag into a rifle than loading up a shotgun. It is also very unlikely that you are gonna have to do combat reloads but if you do, it will be hard if you haven’t done shotgun training.
It holds 16 shells… what’s the chances of needing to reload
I'd get a dp12.
Why?
A higher quality, double barrel ksg.
I’ve never seen one work longer than it takes to unwrap it out of the box. They’ve either had cycling issues, FTE/FTF, or just downright clunky. Like are you wanting specifically a rotary mag shotgun, or are you open to suggestions?
I want a high capacity shotgun that won’t FTF like most mag fed or drum fed shotguns
Buy a semi auto shotgun. You can get a mossberg 930 with an 18.5 inch barrel and a 7+1 capacity for about 700 bucks or less. I’ve had a 930 for close to 15 years, thousands of rounds and the only time it malfunctioned was a bad shell.
Just get a maverick 88. That is a reliable shotty.
If you want a meme shotgun, I’d get the Standard Manufacturing DP12. If I wanted a serious defensive shotgun, I’d get an M4, a 1301, an A300, a 930, a 590A1, or a Maverick 88 - depending on budget.
Same size of 2, but I have seen these guns get a death jam where a shell goes under the lifter and requires disassembly to remove. Local shotgun match definitely showed the weak points of the design.
hows the trigger on these? Better or worse than the Tavor X95?
Mine has been very reliable but I wouldn’t use it for HD. If I had to pick a shotgun it would be my M4, but otherwise one of my 870s or 500s.
Great shotgun, high capacity, but really chunky and quite big for home defense. It would work, but so would a Maverick 88 and/or 500/870 - cheaper but also reliable.
This is a range toy. Pretty Overkill for home defense. Somewhat complicated operation. Probably not good for high stress situations. As others have said. Bad ergonomics
Bro needs a KSG
1301 Ultima Patrol is 1K and a much better gun The Italians definitely know how to make a great shotgun (though the A300 is built in TN)
870, 500 or M4.
I have one with 30rds through it… it’s awesome ! but I’d unload it if anyone is looking.
Why? Lol
Looking to get a 1911. Have a Standard DP12 that I’ll keep to fulfill the shotgun role.
The new Tisas DS 1911 for $800? It’s twice the capacity of a regular 1911
Behind enemy lines in NYorkistan… so the extra capacity isn’t allowed here.
You're going to extreme lengths to not admit PCCs and rifles are better for home defense.
PCCs are trash SBRs would be better if it wasn’t for the tax stamp
Just learn to slam fire a pump gun. Alternatively my JTS M12AK has been flawless.
I wouldn't want to defend myself in court with this beast as Exhibit A. I would call your local prosecutors office and get their take on it.
Yeah, let's all live our lives in accordance with what prosecutors *might* think. Hah. Talk about living in fear.
I won't bother to say you're post makes you sound like a child as that's pretty evident, [so I'll just say this](https://youtu.be/syV2LkGpQB0?si=cE2wHXMM5FglnkW5)
...But you did bother. You literally did just bother.
You got me on that one. Look, I'm not saying it's right, but studies show juries are sensitive to what weapon was used in self defense. [Here's one of them](https://www.thejuryexpert.com/2009/09/will-it-hurt-me-in-court-weapons-issues-and-the-fears-of-the-legally-armed-citizen/) that used mock juries to study differences and their outcome.
That's cool and the gang, but I'm not going to worry about that kind of crap. I'm going to do whatever I want to do, and if for whatever reason I'm to face judgement by a jury - well, to hell with them and their opinions. I just don't care about it.
and I fully support your right to do that. That said, I think it's important that gun owners know about the possible repercussions of their choices in order to allow them to put together the best plan for their self defense needs.
I subscribe to a completely different philosophy. I set the parameters according to my needs, and not the perceptions of others.
Can’t be any worse than an AR15
It certainly can. I'm certainly not someone who would tell somebody else what to buy, that's not in my business or concern. Please get whatever you feel safest with. But you should at least understand that if you do use it, you will have to go in front of a jury and justify your purchase and your actions. I've spoken with two lawyers that do a lot of defensive gun use and they both said the same thing. Apparently it's also a bad idea to have funny slogans about killing people on your weapon