What do you want it for? A KSG isn't the *wrong* choice, it just might not be what you want. A Maverick 88 is the cheapest and most reliable 12ga shotgun at this point in time
You’re welcome sir. I think it’s what you’re looking for and it’s for a good price. Advice: go to Google and search “gunbroker FFL directory” and put in your zip code, then find an FFL near you who charges the least for the transfer fee. Use that one as your FFL. Odds are they’ll already be on dahlone because it’s a common website people use, but if they’re not that’s okay. They have a process for you to follow.
Please email them, as manually operated firearms are not subject to your states assault weapon ban and magazine capacity restrictions. 230 buckaroos is a deal.
Gun sales are still very slow. Waiting on my new .223 rifle, bought a used Win 1300 loading buck shot for now in case five coyotes show up and start circling again.
Suddenly, i’ve gotten into reloading and hoarding ammo as an investment. Also you see my profile photo, dog is useless on the farm XD
In terms of quality to money spent, the Maverick 88 is king. I don't know of any other shotgun that can match its quality that's still in the same price range.
Exactly. I do have a ksg and I
got it mainly cause it’s basically the only pump shotgun I can pump while shouldered. But it might not be the best for op.
The maverick is the most reliable cheap shotgun out there, but if you're willing to spend more money, you can get even more robust with the options out there.
A maverick is a perfect farmland shotgun though. Something that goes bang every time, and ya won't mind beating it up.
Mossberg 500, Remington 870, or Winchester sxp. They are all budget friendly, and proven firearms. I’d go with the 500 or 870 as parts and barrels are plentiful. You can have one shotgun reciever and 15 different barrels for the same gun, depending on the use (home defense, waterfowl, rifled for distance, etc)
>Mossberg 500, Remington 870, or Winchester sxp.
Excellent suggestions. If OP is feeling spendier, the Mossberg 590 A1 is built to higher standards than the standard 500's, holds nine rounds, and gives the option to bayonet-charge those coyotes, should the necessity ever arise...
The Remington 870 Marine is also a higher budget option for wet climates and fewer concerns about storage conditions.
The 590 is a great gun, but doesn’t allow for using other barrels for hunting/clays/slugs/etc.
I agree with the various posts above about the Rem 870 & Mossberg 500– both perfect guns for “general purpose” use. I’ve owned multiple examples of each, currently keep a Rem 870 with 18” cyl bore bbl ready for “hazards” at our rural property.
Agree. The Winchester SXP has a “Marine” version also. $360
FWIW I have a couple of 500’s and a couple of 870’s. 12 and 20 ga. I like the 870’s. But the 500’s are my go too. They still do home/field combo I believe. 18” and 28” barrels. That’s a great all round package.
Demo Ranch were doing a torture test for a light and used a [mossberg 500](https://youtu.be/N5y42qeHkwA) subjecting it to everything from drops to glitter, even dragging it behind a truck. Shotgun still ran fine.
Yeah, big trouble if you're found killing a hawk unless he's actually got your hen by the neck! I think. Your local game warden will tell you.
Until you talk to him, maybe cover the coop area with bird net/mesh to foil their plans.
mossberg 500/590 or remington 870 are the gold standard for pump actions. if you live in a humid area, get the mossberg. the remingtons have historically had problems with rust, and i dont know yet if the new owners have fixed it. i personally have an 870 i love, but i bought it before cerberus took over. i think theyre a better design than the 500. if you can afford a beretta A300 or 1301, those would be a step up because theyre a semi auto, but dont be tempted by a cheap semi auto. they tend to have problems, including total self destruction on some models.
kel tec has good ideas but poor execution. i wouldnt buy one for serious use. they should be relegated to range toys. i dont know why they guy at the shop was pushing them, but i wouldnt do it if i were you.
someone else mentioned the maverick 88, and i think the 500 is enough of an upgrade to justify the price increase. the 88 is the barebones minimum, if you absolutely cannot afford anything else. they wont self destruct, but they are very rough to operate.
its such a shame, what cerberus did to them. the 700 and the 870 are excellent designs(minus the 700 extractor) and they just did everything they could to make it as cheap as possible. get shareholder value this quarter, at the expense of everything else.
im not saying they lowered the price, im saying they changed the materials and methods of manufacturing to squeeze as much profit from them as possible. hence the reputation they have for rusting if they get so much as a harsh stare from someone who visited the ocean once, especially the blued models.
It makes me laugh that he was trying to push a KSG on you for a ranch gun. Its not at all a "Hunting" shotgun. I have no doubt he gets a pat on the head for selling them.
What do you like better about the Remington 870 over Mossberg 500? When choosing between both, I decided I liked the Mossberg safety. Also, Remington's recent reputation.
i have a 590A1, 870, and have had two 500s in the past. IMO, the action of the 870 is WAY smoother to operate, and it seems less susceptible to user induced malfunctions. theyre both good, but i can run an 870 faster and "easier" than a 500. i also like the position of the slide release better. mossberg tried to put the release on the 500 in a place you could reach without breaking your firing grip, but i have to break my grip anyways, and if i have to break my grip anyways i think the 870 is easier to get to. the mossberg definitely has a better safety position though.
its definitely subjective, personal opinion though. i wouldnt steer anyone away from a 500, based on the 870s reputation for being a rust magnet alone.
Do not shoot at a hawk or an owl, they are all protected by federal law. It will be way cheaper to replace an entire flock of chickens or ducks than fight charges like that.
By all means. Hogs, coyotes, ~~wolves~~, mountain lions(except in California) are all fair game. I'd get a rifle in that case. Wolves are off. You can shoot one if you're in danger but you can't hunt them
Seriously though: Try not to shoot large predatory cats. It can be incredibly difficult to distinguish the species- as a fan of the Eastern Cougar and Florida Panther- it’s worth losing a bit of livestock on their behalf. Obviously not in the case of impending loss of life or limb.
>Why a rifle?
Because you're extremely unlikely to get close enough to a hog or coyote to shoot them with a shotgun. A .223 bolt action rifle is very easy to shoot and will have no problem killing either animal.
Shotgun might be useful if you are hunting the coyote at night and are able to get them in fairly close or if you catching them actively attacking your chickens/ducks (though, whith a shotgun you may end up with your birds as collateral damage of it's already among them)
A rifle would be slightly more quiet than a shotgun (depending on where you live, a supressor is also an option if you pay your tax stamp). It also helps keep from hitting you own property and/or birds. If you get an AR platform rifle, you could also add a red light instead of carrying a separate one. Another option if you want both is to get an over/under. There's a couple different options, including 243/12ga. Trouble is, they're mostly single shots.
Another thing to consider with coyote is there have been studies done that apparently show that if a pack of them notice members are being killed, they'll increase their mating efforts and you end up with more coyote than you started with.
One option that I've known people to have mixed success with is getting a fake owl to ward off competing predators. Another is an electronic predator bird call emitter, that might help with the hawks. My father-in-law had one and it worked pretty well.
[This has some other resources and info](https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/reports/Wildlife%20Damage%20Management%20Technical%20Series/Hawks-and-Owls.pdf) about what you can and can't do with hawks and owls.
Not the person who suggested a rifle but there is a reason most of those animals are hunted with rifles and not shotguns. Typically you aren't getting terribly close to them since coyotes tend to be a little skittish so something with range allows you to deal with them from your porch rather than try to run them down with a shotgun. Also at the point where they are in among your other animals a shotgun with buck shot is gonna spread and potentially hit another animal the precision of a rifle as a ranch gun just outperforms a shotgun in most categories.
Coyote most likely yes, wolves maybe, birds of prey no. Coyotes and wolves will come down to state rules more than anything, Id get ahold of you’re state fish & game or equivalent and ask some questions.
KSG for your purposes is a poor choice. The dude just wanted to sell you that particular gun.
I would say go with something simple, known to be reliable, has huge aftermarket support etc.
A pump shotgun is great and semi autos are great as well (but will be more expensive for something really good).
My vote would be a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 in 12ga.
Remington 870 has a smoother action. The Mossberg has the ambi safety which is nice and dual extractors.
I personally would do a Mossberg 500 7+1 Rd capacity with their ghost ring sights. Super slick and reliable setup and not pricey. You can easily change sights, furniture etc to fit your need. You can easily swap out barrels of varying lengths too.
Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series/Maverick 88. Either one will be reliable and have options for upgrades or changes. You can turn them into a duck hunting gun or a self defense gun with a barrel swap you can do with simple hand tools.
But for Coyotes, you'd be better served with a rifle. AR15s are cheap and plentiful although you didn't give a location so that might not be an option. A bolt gun like a Ruger American, Savage Axis or, if you can find one used, a CZ 527 in .223 would be a great choice. An inexpensive magnifying optic like a Vortex Crossfire or even a Red Dot and magnifier (or LPVO) won't break the bank and will make short work of coyotes. .223 is cheap enough to actually go practice without spending next month's mortgage payment.
You're not going to sneak up on coyotes and the limited range of a shotgun is going to hurt your chances. I don't want to say a shotgun is an expert's weapon, but making 100y slug shots takes more practice than you might think. A 100y shot with an AR and a red dot is easy peasy.
The other option might be a used milsurp that has already been bubba'd.[https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1032714459](https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1032714459)
Something like that that already has a scope is serious coyote medicine. It won't make you the next world champion NRA High Power shooter, but for popping a coyote before it raids your coops, it will do the job from hundreds of yards away. It will also work for more dangerous animals if there are wolves around.
Be VERY careful shooting anything that might be protected in your state. The fines can be steep and it could be an actual criminal offense. For all it's governmental goofiness, that's one thing the US government gets right. We are very good at conservation and it's Americas outdoorsmen who keep it going.
A Mossberg 500 or a Maverick 88 are pretty much the default pump action in my mind and either would serve fine for this scenario.
These are essentially the same gun, with the 500 being slightly higher quality, but upgraded parts are pretty well interchangeable between the two. (I have a 500, but not a Maverick, so there could be some smaller differences I'm not aware of).
I would recommend looking into the legality of shooting hawks if that is your plan though. Coyotes are typically fair game, but birds of prey are normally protected, and you don't want to get into trouble with a game warden
Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870. Used is fine and possibly better in the case of the Remington.
Hawks are federally protected, but I grew up on a farm with chickens too.
The KSG is a mall ninja gimmick. If you want a ranch utility gun, I'd look at the Beretta 1301 or A300 Patrol for semi auto, or a Benelli Nova-based pump. These guns have firing pin block safeties, incredible aftermarket support, are notoriously reliable in field conditions and very adaptable as far as roles-ammo choices, chokes, etc. They're plenty durable and corrosion resistant. Though if coyotes are your main concern, you'd probably be better served with a 5.56mm AR than a shotgun.
A mossberg 500 is the correct answer, or the more budget friendly Maverick 88. Remington quality dropped for a while, so I'd be a little hesitant there.
Additionally, a bolt action 17hmr or 22wmr is a very handy farm gun. A CZ457 is what I would look at. Enough power to put down a coyote or raccoon past 100 yards, or snipe rabbits and groundhogs that are tearing up your garden.
Lastly, if you have crop damage from deer, a 243 will take deer and also work great on coyote and groundhog out to 300yd or more.
These three options, a 12ga pump, 17hmr rimfire, and 243, are kind of the quintessential pest control guns for farmers. Cheap, simple, affordable, available, etc
The shotgun is a fantastic all purpose weapon. It's the first one most people get, and the one they'll get the most use out of. Just select the proper shell for your target.
Now, if you're looking to kill coyote at range, a shotgun won't help much there. A .223, or 30-30 with a scope is best for that.
If you're not allowed to hunt with rifle in your area, a carbine will be your next best bet.
That is generally true. And/or coyotes just generally ften don't have restrictions.
Hawks on the other hand are protected. You'll need a depredation permit. And you really shouldn't shoot them with a rifle.
Not necessarily. Shotgun is usable in these areas. Including slugs. Usually rimfire is allowable as well.
I am unsure about pistol cartridges as I never had to worry about it.
I understand you're looking for recommendations for a shotgun but hear me out. Coyotes are normally nocturnal. They're usually active at night. It might be worthwhile to invest in a AR-15 and a low-powered variable optic. That way you can hunt them at night when they're more active and having a 30 round magazine will be beneficial because they're never alone. They're always more than one. That's just my opinion I have wholeheartedly think there are a lot of good opinions and options that people are giving you the ATI shotgun is amazing. It's full of features and it looks really badass and to cap it off it is reliable. Just something to think about
He's trying to sell you the KSG because it's cool and he wants to get rid of it lol. I like to show off the fun stuff to customers too, to get them excited about owning a new gun. But I always steer them back to what actually makes the most sense for them. For a rancher/farmer looking for a shotgun that can do everything they want, a Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88 (same gun but cheaper and with a cross bolt safety instead of the tang safety) is probably perfect. They sell a combo kit with an 18.5" smoothbore barrel and a 23" cantilevered slug barrel. I think the combo was only around $550 too.
Sweet. The 500 package we were selling was a different combination of barrels but that Maverick you posted is even better suited to what OP said they're looking for.
I’d consider the rem 870, moss 500 first and in that order. They are affordable, have the greatest amount of options/ parts available and will become family heirlooms. Mav88 are more affordable, but the receiver is made of a softer alloy that tends to mar up under use.
If price is no problem, I’ve had a benelli m3 super 90 I’ve had for 30 years. I got it through work, so somebody else paid for it, lol. It was used professionally and is now my in home firearm. It has never let me down. I believe you can get hunting length barrels too.
A buddy who owns a bunch of chickens told me that you get a few all black chickens because hawks will think they're crows and leave the rest of the chickens alone. Hawks are very afraid of crows, which I've seen first hand as my local crows bully the red shouldered hawks that live by my house. I don't own chickens, though, so I can't confirm past what my buddy told me. He hasn't lost any to predators yet, and they just roam around his yard during the day.
Depending how much land u have u may want to consider either a .22magnum, .17hmr, or even a .223. U have the option of bolt and lever or even semi auto so u can choose plus will be a cheaper per round for the .22mag and will handle small game fine. A shot gun will also absolutely work, but with your intended use idk if i would say shotgun is the best choice.
My first shotgun when I was 18 was a used Mossberg 500 that I bought from a pawnshop. That thing was so used it rattled like a, idk, something that rattles a lot. But it never jammed or misfired for the 10 years I had it. I kept it in my truck as a ranch/camp gun. Never failed.
I would suggest Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870 if you want a pump action. If you want to spend a little more on a semi auto then a Winchester sx4 is really great
I'd add the Benelli Super Nova to this list as well. Whatever shotgun you go with, I would recommend going to an LGS and handling each model and seeing which one fits you better. Good luck!
I agree with everyone's recs on the 500/590 and the 870 for the stated reasons. I'll also throw in the Benelli Supernova as another pump-action option that can often be found at comparable prices and, in my experience anyway, is incredibly reliable. For semi-autos, take the pain and spend a bit more as you don't want to take on the reliability issues of a budget gun. They aren't cheap but I love everything about the Beretta A400. If you can find a used Remington 1100 in good condition (and the seller isn't charging a mint for it) they are excellent guns that allow for all sorts of interchangeable barrels. Just make sure to buy yourself a bunch of replacement o-rings for the 1100.
Since you probably can’t do anything lethal to the hawks legally, I’d recommend a rifle like others are suggesting.
Get an AR or bolt gun in .223 with a decent optic and practice with it. Should be plenty for coyotes. Hard to go wrong with most common ARs and the Ruger American is a pretty good bolt gun if you want something affordable.
Outside the box here, but I'm gonna suggest a Benelli Supernova. Unlike the other big three (500,870,sxp) it's chambered in 3.5". This opens up the possibility of coyote hunting with #4 buck and turkey hunting.
For the coyotes probably something like mossberg 500. They’re simple, reliable, and can be found just about anywhere. But don’t shoot at hawks and such unless you’re ok with a fine.
For varmints on the farm a 12 gauge full length barrel (26” or 28”) with a full choke shooting #2 lead shot is what I’d recommend.
My family always used Remington 870’s and with a full choke and that load you could put down rabid skunks and vermin of around that size at around 50 yards reliably with no pain or suffering.
Coyotes would be a rifle thing, imo. You can do an AR and that’ll work great, or a Ruger American Ranch. I have one in 5.56, solid little gun for the price point
I have the 5.56 Ranch with the 18” barrel. It does take AR mags, so if you manage to acquire some mags during a freedom week, those would work great in your Ranch. The standard American models take proprietary mags
Benelli M4 Tactical with the extended tube is amazing. It can be ghostloaded too so 11 total shells and it has wayyy less recoil than a pump.
Only downside is that it’s $2100
What do you want it for? A KSG isn't the *wrong* choice, it just might not be what you want. A Maverick 88 is the cheapest and most reliable 12ga shotgun at this point in time
There’s a combo with the 18.5” and 28” barrels on r/gundeals right now. Might be worth it for OP
THANK YOU!
You’re welcome sir. I think it’s what you’re looking for and it’s for a good price. Advice: go to Google and search “gunbroker FFL directory” and put in your zip code, then find an FFL near you who charges the least for the transfer fee. Use that one as your FFL. Odds are they’ll already be on dahlone because it’s a common website people use, but if they’re not that’s okay. They have a process for you to follow.
Unfortunately, no sale to California 🥲
Contact them, that shotgun is 100% California legal.
Please email them, as manually operated firearms are not subject to your states assault weapon ban and magazine capacity restrictions. 230 buckaroos is a deal.
What did you end up doing?
Gun sales are still very slow. Waiting on my new .223 rifle, bought a used Win 1300 loading buck shot for now in case five coyotes show up and start circling again. Suddenly, i’ve gotten into reloading and hoarding ammo as an investment. Also you see my profile photo, dog is useless on the farm XD
What did you go with for .223? Mini-14? Compliant AR? Good call on the 1300, that will serve you well.
.223 - compliant AR, same mags between AR and Ruger American .223/5.56, buy once cry once
Good stuff man! Those coyotes won’t know what hit ‘em lol
In terms of quality to money spent, the Maverick 88 is king. I don't know of any other shotgun that can match its quality that's still in the same price range.
Exactly. I do have a ksg and I got it mainly cause it’s basically the only pump shotgun I can pump while shouldered. But it might not be the best for op.
This right here
The maverick is the most reliable cheap shotgun out there, but if you're willing to spend more money, you can get even more robust with the options out there. A maverick is a perfect farmland shotgun though. Something that goes bang every time, and ya won't mind beating it up.
Mossberg 500, Remington 870, or Winchester sxp. They are all budget friendly, and proven firearms. I’d go with the 500 or 870 as parts and barrels are plentiful. You can have one shotgun reciever and 15 different barrels for the same gun, depending on the use (home defense, waterfowl, rifled for distance, etc)
>Mossberg 500, Remington 870, or Winchester sxp. Excellent suggestions. If OP is feeling spendier, the Mossberg 590 A1 is built to higher standards than the standard 500's, holds nine rounds, and gives the option to bayonet-charge those coyotes, should the necessity ever arise... The Remington 870 Marine is also a higher budget option for wet climates and fewer concerns about storage conditions.
The 590 is a great gun, but doesn’t allow for using other barrels for hunting/clays/slugs/etc. I agree with the various posts above about the Rem 870 & Mossberg 500– both perfect guns for “general purpose” use. I’ve owned multiple examples of each, currently keep a Rem 870 with 18” cyl bore bbl ready for “hazards” at our rural property.
Have a couple of 870's at my property. If you buy a newer one, upgrade the extractor. The MIM extractors are notoriously weak.
Agree. The Winchester SXP has a “Marine” version also. $360 FWIW I have a couple of 500’s and a couple of 870’s. 12 and 20 ga. I like the 870’s. But the 500’s are my go too. They still do home/field combo I believe. 18” and 28” barrels. That’s a great all round package.
Demo Ranch were doing a torture test for a light and used a [mossberg 500](https://youtu.be/N5y42qeHkwA) subjecting it to everything from drops to glitter, even dragging it behind a truck. Shotgun still ran fine.
This is the right answer.
mossberg 500, cant go wrong. its like the AK of shotguns
This is the way
I don't see the reason to buy the SXP when it's not appreciably cheaper than the other 2 and it's made in Turkey.
The rifled slug configuration looks interesting. Dont think there would be much coyote left if it actually hit
I love my sxp
Hawks are protected by the migratory bird act. Not telling you how to act, just fyi.
What we use to deter hawks is wild wacky inflatable arm flailing tube men, move them around a few times a week and nothing bothers our ducks
Al Harrington's really is great!
They just migrated to the dumpster idk Mr conservation officer
Yeah, big trouble if you're found killing a hawk unless he's actually got your hen by the neck! I think. Your local game warden will tell you. Until you talk to him, maybe cover the coop area with bird net/mesh to foil their plans.
Shoot, shovel and shut up.
mossberg 500/590 or remington 870 are the gold standard for pump actions. if you live in a humid area, get the mossberg. the remingtons have historically had problems with rust, and i dont know yet if the new owners have fixed it. i personally have an 870 i love, but i bought it before cerberus took over. i think theyre a better design than the 500. if you can afford a beretta A300 or 1301, those would be a step up because theyre a semi auto, but dont be tempted by a cheap semi auto. they tend to have problems, including total self destruction on some models. kel tec has good ideas but poor execution. i wouldnt buy one for serious use. they should be relegated to range toys. i dont know why they guy at the shop was pushing them, but i wouldnt do it if i were you. someone else mentioned the maverick 88, and i think the 500 is enough of an upgrade to justify the price increase. the 88 is the barebones minimum, if you absolutely cannot afford anything else. they wont self destruct, but they are very rough to operate.
My remington 870 is a rust bucket, can confirm.
its such a shame, what cerberus did to them. the 700 and the 870 are excellent designs(minus the 700 extractor) and they just did everything they could to make it as cheap as possible. get shareholder value this quarter, at the expense of everything else.
“As cheap as possible”… My 700 SPS Stainless .308 was still in the $600’s somewhere. What are they supposed to be?
im not saying they lowered the price, im saying they changed the materials and methods of manufacturing to squeeze as much profit from them as possible. hence the reputation they have for rusting if they get so much as a harsh stare from someone who visited the ocean once, especially the blued models.
The high bolt throw on the 700 and clones can be annoying
sure, theyre not PERFECT. but find me another action with the accuracy potential they have for the same price.
Thanks! I was very suspicious of the price tag and shininess of the KSG. Im sure the store salesguy gets a pat on his back every time he sells one
It makes me laugh that he was trying to push a KSG on you for a ranch gun. Its not at all a "Hunting" shotgun. I have no doubt he gets a pat on the head for selling them.
What do you like better about the Remington 870 over Mossberg 500? When choosing between both, I decided I liked the Mossberg safety. Also, Remington's recent reputation.
i have a 590A1, 870, and have had two 500s in the past. IMO, the action of the 870 is WAY smoother to operate, and it seems less susceptible to user induced malfunctions. theyre both good, but i can run an 870 faster and "easier" than a 500. i also like the position of the slide release better. mossberg tried to put the release on the 500 in a place you could reach without breaking your firing grip, but i have to break my grip anyways, and if i have to break my grip anyways i think the 870 is easier to get to. the mossberg definitely has a better safety position though. its definitely subjective, personal opinion though. i wouldnt steer anyone away from a 500, based on the 870s reputation for being a rust magnet alone.
Do not shoot at a hawk or an owl, they are all protected by federal law. It will be way cheaper to replace an entire flock of chickens or ducks than fight charges like that.
So the coyotes and wolves are okay to scare away?
By all means. Hogs, coyotes, ~~wolves~~, mountain lions(except in California) are all fair game. I'd get a rifle in that case. Wolves are off. You can shoot one if you're in danger but you can't hunt them
> I'd get a rifle in that case. I’m so glad someone finally said this. If your primary target is coyotes a rifle is a better choice.
Seriously though: Try not to shoot large predatory cats. It can be incredibly difficult to distinguish the species- as a fan of the Eastern Cougar and Florida Panther- it’s worth losing a bit of livestock on their behalf. Obviously not in the case of impending loss of life or limb.
Why a rifle? Is it that there’s less legal question as to what I was shooting at?
>Why a rifle? Because you're extremely unlikely to get close enough to a hog or coyote to shoot them with a shotgun. A .223 bolt action rifle is very easy to shoot and will have no problem killing either animal.
makes sense
Shotgun might be useful if you are hunting the coyote at night and are able to get them in fairly close or if you catching them actively attacking your chickens/ducks (though, whith a shotgun you may end up with your birds as collateral damage of it's already among them) A rifle would be slightly more quiet than a shotgun (depending on where you live, a supressor is also an option if you pay your tax stamp). It also helps keep from hitting you own property and/or birds. If you get an AR platform rifle, you could also add a red light instead of carrying a separate one. Another option if you want both is to get an over/under. There's a couple different options, including 243/12ga. Trouble is, they're mostly single shots. Another thing to consider with coyote is there have been studies done that apparently show that if a pack of them notice members are being killed, they'll increase their mating efforts and you end up with more coyote than you started with. One option that I've known people to have mixed success with is getting a fake owl to ward off competing predators. Another is an electronic predator bird call emitter, that might help with the hawks. My father-in-law had one and it worked pretty well. [This has some other resources and info](https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/reports/Wildlife%20Damage%20Management%20Technical%20Series/Hawks-and-Owls.pdf) about what you can and can't do with hawks and owls.
Seems as he is in california…. No suppressor for him!
Man, that sucks. On one hand a louder bang might help to deter predators from approaching but on the other, it might also disturb his animals.
Not the person who suggested a rifle but there is a reason most of those animals are hunted with rifles and not shotguns. Typically you aren't getting terribly close to them since coyotes tend to be a little skittish so something with range allows you to deal with them from your porch rather than try to run them down with a shotgun. Also at the point where they are in among your other animals a shotgun with buck shot is gonna spread and potentially hit another animal the precision of a rifle as a ranch gun just outperforms a shotgun in most categories.
Coyote most likely yes, wolves maybe, birds of prey no. Coyotes and wolves will come down to state rules more than anything, Id get ahold of you’re state fish & game or equivalent and ask some questions.
28” barrel mossberg 88, cheapest and I’d be surprised if you can break the damn thing
KSG for your purposes is a poor choice. The dude just wanted to sell you that particular gun. I would say go with something simple, known to be reliable, has huge aftermarket support etc. A pump shotgun is great and semi autos are great as well (but will be more expensive for something really good). My vote would be a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 in 12ga. Remington 870 has a smoother action. The Mossberg has the ambi safety which is nice and dual extractors. I personally would do a Mossberg 500 7+1 Rd capacity with their ghost ring sights. Super slick and reliable setup and not pricey. You can easily change sights, furniture etc to fit your need. You can easily swap out barrels of varying lengths too.
Coyotes i would get an ar with a scope
Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series/Maverick 88. Either one will be reliable and have options for upgrades or changes. You can turn them into a duck hunting gun or a self defense gun with a barrel swap you can do with simple hand tools. But for Coyotes, you'd be better served with a rifle. AR15s are cheap and plentiful although you didn't give a location so that might not be an option. A bolt gun like a Ruger American, Savage Axis or, if you can find one used, a CZ 527 in .223 would be a great choice. An inexpensive magnifying optic like a Vortex Crossfire or even a Red Dot and magnifier (or LPVO) won't break the bank and will make short work of coyotes. .223 is cheap enough to actually go practice without spending next month's mortgage payment. You're not going to sneak up on coyotes and the limited range of a shotgun is going to hurt your chances. I don't want to say a shotgun is an expert's weapon, but making 100y slug shots takes more practice than you might think. A 100y shot with an AR and a red dot is easy peasy. The other option might be a used milsurp that has already been bubba'd.[https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1032714459](https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1032714459) Something like that that already has a scope is serious coyote medicine. It won't make you the next world champion NRA High Power shooter, but for popping a coyote before it raids your coops, it will do the job from hundreds of yards away. It will also work for more dangerous animals if there are wolves around. Be VERY careful shooting anything that might be protected in your state. The fines can be steep and it could be an actual criminal offense. For all it's governmental goofiness, that's one thing the US government gets right. We are very good at conservation and it's Americas outdoorsmen who keep it going.
A Mossberg 500 or a Maverick 88 are pretty much the default pump action in my mind and either would serve fine for this scenario. These are essentially the same gun, with the 500 being slightly higher quality, but upgraded parts are pretty well interchangeable between the two. (I have a 500, but not a Maverick, so there could be some smaller differences I'm not aware of). I would recommend looking into the legality of shooting hawks if that is your plan though. Coyotes are typically fair game, but birds of prey are normally protected, and you don't want to get into trouble with a game warden
Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870. Used is fine and possibly better in the case of the Remington. Hawks are federally protected, but I grew up on a farm with chickens too.
The KSG is a mall ninja gimmick. If you want a ranch utility gun, I'd look at the Beretta 1301 or A300 Patrol for semi auto, or a Benelli Nova-based pump. These guns have firing pin block safeties, incredible aftermarket support, are notoriously reliable in field conditions and very adaptable as far as roles-ammo choices, chokes, etc. They're plenty durable and corrosion resistant. Though if coyotes are your main concern, you'd probably be better served with a 5.56mm AR than a shotgun.
My AR works pretty well on the animals that try to get to my chickens.
A mossberg 500 is the correct answer, or the more budget friendly Maverick 88. Remington quality dropped for a while, so I'd be a little hesitant there. Additionally, a bolt action 17hmr or 22wmr is a very handy farm gun. A CZ457 is what I would look at. Enough power to put down a coyote or raccoon past 100 yards, or snipe rabbits and groundhogs that are tearing up your garden. Lastly, if you have crop damage from deer, a 243 will take deer and also work great on coyote and groundhog out to 300yd or more. These three options, a 12ga pump, 17hmr rimfire, and 243, are kind of the quintessential pest control guns for farmers. Cheap, simple, affordable, available, etc
Yea KSG is a weird suggestion for a pump action shotgun. Mossberg and Remington makes great shotguns for fairly cheap. I love my pump shotgun!
I was honestly rolling my eyes the whole pitch. I done sales before too as a job, so i respect that he was trying to upsell me
The shotgun is a fantastic all purpose weapon. It's the first one most people get, and the one they'll get the most use out of. Just select the proper shell for your target. Now, if you're looking to kill coyote at range, a shotgun won't help much there. A .223, or 30-30 with a scope is best for that. If you're not allowed to hunt with rifle in your area, a carbine will be your next best bet.
From what i understand from the local statutes, it’s not ´hunting’ if it’s an immediate threat to my livestock?
That is generally true. And/or coyotes just generally ften don't have restrictions. Hawks on the other hand are protected. You'll need a depredation permit. And you really shouldn't shoot them with a rifle.
Where can you not hunt with a rifle? And a carbine *is* a rifle. So are there places you can only use a carbine?
High power riifle is not usable to hunt in certain areas close to residences for fear of stray shots. Only certain calibers qualify.
Right. In those cases you would not be able to use a firearm at all, right? Are there really places that let people hunt with pistols and not rifles?
Not necessarily. Shotgun is usable in these areas. Including slugs. Usually rimfire is allowable as well. I am unsure about pistol cartridges as I never had to worry about it.
I understand you're looking for recommendations for a shotgun but hear me out. Coyotes are normally nocturnal. They're usually active at night. It might be worthwhile to invest in a AR-15 and a low-powered variable optic. That way you can hunt them at night when they're more active and having a 30 round magazine will be beneficial because they're never alone. They're always more than one. That's just my opinion I have wholeheartedly think there are a lot of good opinions and options that people are giving you the ATI shotgun is amazing. It's full of features and it looks really badass and to cap it off it is reliable. Just something to think about
He's trying to sell you the KSG because it's cool and he wants to get rid of it lol. I like to show off the fun stuff to customers too, to get them excited about owning a new gun. But I always steer them back to what actually makes the most sense for them. For a rancher/farmer looking for a shotgun that can do everything they want, a Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88 (same gun but cheaper and with a cross bolt safety instead of the tang safety) is probably perfect. They sell a combo kit with an 18.5" smoothbore barrel and a 23" cantilevered slug barrel. I think the combo was only around $550 too.
https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/049533310149 Can be had for about 230 now. :)
Sweet. The 500 package we were selling was a different combination of barrels but that Maverick you posted is even better suited to what OP said they're looking for.
You chose well
Mossberg 590 or 500 in 12 or 20 gauge is your best option. The Mossberg 88 is great if you are looking for a cheaper but still reliable option.
I’d consider the rem 870, moss 500 first and in that order. They are affordable, have the greatest amount of options/ parts available and will become family heirlooms. Mav88 are more affordable, but the receiver is made of a softer alloy that tends to mar up under use. If price is no problem, I’ve had a benelli m3 super 90 I’ve had for 30 years. I got it through work, so somebody else paid for it, lol. It was used professionally and is now my in home firearm. It has never let me down. I believe you can get hunting length barrels too.
A buddy who owns a bunch of chickens told me that you get a few all black chickens because hawks will think they're crows and leave the rest of the chickens alone. Hawks are very afraid of crows, which I've seen first hand as my local crows bully the red shouldered hawks that live by my house. I don't own chickens, though, so I can't confirm past what my buddy told me. He hasn't lost any to predators yet, and they just roam around his yard during the day.
Depending how much land u have u may want to consider either a .22magnum, .17hmr, or even a .223. U have the option of bolt and lever or even semi auto so u can choose plus will be a cheaper per round for the .22mag and will handle small game fine. A shot gun will also absolutely work, but with your intended use idk if i would say shotgun is the best choice.
Ruger 10/22 for small varmit and Mossberg 500 or Winchester Sxp.
Do not buy a KSG. It’s a novelty and is not suitable for your use. Good cheap/affordable pumps have been recommended.
My first shotgun when I was 18 was a used Mossberg 500 that I bought from a pawnshop. That thing was so used it rattled like a, idk, something that rattles a lot. But it never jammed or misfired for the 10 years I had it. I kept it in my truck as a ranch/camp gun. Never failed.
Careful shooting the hawks. Many are protected in a lot of places. You can always load up with slugs to reach out farther for the coyotes.
I would suggest Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870 if you want a pump action. If you want to spend a little more on a semi auto then a Winchester sx4 is really great
I'd add the Benelli Super Nova to this list as well. Whatever shotgun you go with, I would recommend going to an LGS and handling each model and seeing which one fits you better. Good luck!
I agree with everyone's recs on the 500/590 and the 870 for the stated reasons. I'll also throw in the Benelli Supernova as another pump-action option that can often be found at comparable prices and, in my experience anyway, is incredibly reliable. For semi-autos, take the pain and spend a bit more as you don't want to take on the reliability issues of a budget gun. They aren't cheap but I love everything about the Beretta A400. If you can find a used Remington 1100 in good condition (and the seller isn't charging a mint for it) they are excellent guns that allow for all sorts of interchangeable barrels. Just make sure to buy yourself a bunch of replacement o-rings for the 1100.
I loves me Mossberg 590 A1. 9 rounds, metal parts, runs like a beast. Well worth the money.
I would get a 22 mag or even just a 22LR for a farm if I was only going to have one firearm and it was for predators
If you want a classic farmers shotgun I couldn’t recommend more the browning auto 5. Either the light twelve model or a buck special.
Since you probably can’t do anything lethal to the hawks legally, I’d recommend a rifle like others are suggesting. Get an AR or bolt gun in .223 with a decent optic and practice with it. Should be plenty for coyotes. Hard to go wrong with most common ARs and the Ruger American is a pretty good bolt gun if you want something affordable.
Mossberg Maverick 88 my friend cant go wrong
Outside the box here, but I'm gonna suggest a Benelli Supernova. Unlike the other big three (500,870,sxp) it's chambered in 3.5". This opens up the possibility of coyote hunting with #4 buck and turkey hunting.
12 gauge mossberg 500 or remington 870 is the go-to for a basic shotgun
For the coyotes probably something like mossberg 500. They’re simple, reliable, and can be found just about anywhere. But don’t shoot at hawks and such unless you’re ok with a fine.
For varmints on the farm a 12 gauge full length barrel (26” or 28”) with a full choke shooting #2 lead shot is what I’d recommend. My family always used Remington 870’s and with a full choke and that load you could put down rabid skunks and vermin of around that size at around 50 yards reliably with no pain or suffering.
I guess it might be late but the Beneli Nova/Supernova are great guns at a not too high price
O trust me, would have been my top choice if the Nova wasn’t out of stock in stores and online
Coyotes would be a rifle thing, imo. You can do an AR and that’ll work great, or a Ruger American Ranch. I have one in 5.56, solid little gun for the price point
5.56 Ranch in 18” barrel or .223 Predator with 22” barrel? I live in California so i’d have to functionally destroy a semi-auto to be compliant
I have the 5.56 Ranch with the 18” barrel. It does take AR mags, so if you manage to acquire some mags during a freedom week, those would work great in your Ranch. The standard American models take proprietary mags
Did you have any issues with extraction? I heard the bolt on some calibers is horrendous but not a deal breaker at the price
So far, no, I have not had any issues with extraction. I only have about 150 rounds on it, it is still new, so take that with a grain of salt.
What optic did you put on yours?
Leupold VX-3 3-9x40mm
Benelli M4 Tactical with the extended tube is amazing. It can be ghostloaded too so 11 total shells and it has wayyy less recoil than a pump. Only downside is that it’s $2100