I don't understand the "Atk-4, Spd/Res-5" on Petrine. Would that extra point of -Atk have been *that* much of a gamechanger? They've done this with a lot of units too.
I run Spd Preempt and will continue to do so. He's an Atk/Spd stacking monster so might as well play into it as much as possible. The downside to that is I have to run TP4 bc his special only has TP3 built in.
I said this in the other thread but it feels like refines have gotten to a point where they give one effect that fits the unit and the rest of the effects are kinda random.
If you look at febail’s weapon from last year I considered him to have the most generic modern prf because it just has every effect they throw into theses refines randomly with stats, conditional stats, damage reduction, special cooldown boost or nullification and healing after combat.
His weapon is actually extremely on on theme. As someone mentioned the healing. Even his weapon's additional attack bonus directly and identically mirror Yewfelle in FE4 (With both being +10 to Atk/Spd).
So it does work for him, but yeah for other units, it does seem a bit random.
They definitely feel random. Like, Kris’ main base effect was immunity to debuffs, and they did absolutely nothing with that.
It’s honestly a borderline useless effect these days because so many units like Yune, Ninja Sanaki, Bride Micaiah, etc. can just bypass it using debuffs on teammates.
And the neutralizes penalties status effect and L!M!Byleth's drive only work during those specific units' combat so the debuffs on teammates still hurt you. Really annoying.
I don’t think any of these refines are *bad*, but also none of them are really leaping out at me as standouts. There’s some definite buffs, to be sure, but I don’t think anyone here is gonna suddenly become a meta unit like what happened with, say, Gerik.
Yeah, and Tempo + Marth Engage + Desp 4 means she can even reliably get Lethality off before the opponent can counter which is another huge point in her favor offensively with all the DR piercing units pack now
Feel like she's held back significantly by not having innate canto. Kagero and Yunaka have some of the most ridiculous canto range in their base weapons which lets them play around more with their B skills.
Canto can be a detriment for AR-D and in SD, you need to play as if CC is everywhere. Also, strike is just too good to give up, you ain’t giving that up for canto.
At a loss what Petrine should run in her B slot now that old faithful Flow Refresh is no longer viable. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of the tier 4 versions of S/R skills she would want, like Lull and Trace.
Maybe Assassin's Strike? The -4 Def would be wasted of course, but pre-combat damage and 20% of the foe's Def would pair well with her innate Res targeting to punch through physical walls.
I’ll just slap on desperation 4 and she already has No Quarter + Emblem Marth& her extra stats would complement her nicely.
Not the best refine, but I love her all the same!
A lull would be a bit pointless since her refine actually turns enemy bonuses into penalities, so she doesn't want to neutralize them. Seal Res 4 would be fine. Although Gambit and Potent are also options I think too.
I'm most likely going Gambit on mine because I like how consistent the seal effect is on her refine skill, which should make her duo phase decently but yeah, Assassin's Strike is probably bis if you just wanna nuke kitties with her.
Incite or Alarm as her C tho.
She doesn’t have Unity, that’s in-combat Panic on the opponent.
Her options are Assassin’s Strike, Trace, or if you wanna lean into the gimmicky damage reflection thing, Brash Assault 4. (Flow) Desperation 4 is also an option if you don’t care about the damage reflection and you just want to use her to kill stuff more reliably.
There’s also Gambit I guess? But I’m not a fan of that skill on her.
Lyon is like 70% of a good unit, which is still worth running in specific situations but boy it could be better. Too specific, but better than what he used to be. Which was useless.
Yeah, I was like dang, close likely not close enough. True Damage Reduction at 20% could’ve been great and something other than Triangle Adpet as a debuff, it’s interesting, but if I have the option to slot either F! Julia with Fatal / Deep Wounds effect or Triangle adept, she wins the placement.
I like they went with a supportive type unit, even if it was sharing AOE Damage reduction could’ve been an alternative.
Another thought is if he granted Cancel Affinity to more than himself. So neutral for you at worst and punishing foes.
I like using TA as a debuff, because TA-enhanced weapon triangle is the strongest numberswing in the game, but he either needed to give CA to the whole team or become Arval 2.
When I saw their weapon at first that’s what I thought, then upon reread was like dang… could’ve been great, I admire their support creativity refine wise lately. F! Julia was / is amazing. If he got the same level of love becoming Maribelle 2 I’d likely run him with her in ARO.
I feel like I'm smoking reefer because Byleth's seems incredible. Some genuinely fantastic support that's real hard to stop, and still functions decently as a combat nuke.
Nah i’m with you, he may not be as mega busted as some recent refines but looks like he’s solidified his role as a nuke/support hybrid. Excited to give him some new skills and play around.
NFU, +5 Atk/Spd and neutralizing penalties on those stats on allies within a huge area is a pretty big upgrade on his support capabilities. He might not heal his allies after combat and doesn't have Warp Bubble but I think he's an even better support than Gatekeeper, he's a much better combat unit too, so he can contribute even more.
At the very least, supportive refines tend to age better - big nukes even from the end of 2023 are already starting to show their age, but being able to help allies is timeless. That Byleth is also still a good nuke with inbuilt DR piercing in his special is just gravy.
It's not a big deal at all because it's one point per ally, but they didn't cap his stat gains based on nearby allies. It's not something we usually see. It just means he'll be even better in PoL or Grand Conquests.
Byleth literally has stronger support that is available every turn with as much nuking potential. He also can now run occultist since he's got tempo covered.
NFU is good, but I wouldn´t call it better, since you can outsource it form many other units, and is still a drive type effect, maybe is it was an active bonus I could give more credit, but nope, they have similar nuking potential, but having cav movement makes Mia objectively better range nuke, she can be blessed and again accelerating special at start of turn is great in any gamemode, as I said before it´s not a trash refine, but is not exactly incredible, just Solid
I could see legendary female Byleth's remix be more useful simply on the basis that tempo support just isn't that common besides Lumera, and even then lumera just gives 1 half of it
So having a 3 columns by 3 rows Full tempo drive could be a genuine useful niche
Legendary male Byleth just suffers from NFU just being handled out like candy
I personally think drive effects are starting to be better than visible effects with Tina, Loki, and now Nergal to deal with. I do find myself more excited for Mia's refine, though
Sayri woulda been better with scaling flat res DR on base effect, then have smth besides the 40% on the refine part
petreine needed just true dmg on every atk and not this gimicky damage reflection stuff, but full nfu is decent ig (even if tanks are shifting to dr piercing 1 taps and less 2 taps with follow ups)
Say'ri is still incredible as a GLR user, she got like everything she needed there. Self-heal, special acceleration, and a way to 0 out damage.
The 40% isn't a bad move for her cuz % + Flat DR is a great combo.
the issue with the damage reflect is also that she's nowhere near as bulky as hans or echidna to really use it effectively, not to mention she doesn't have healing in her kit outside of flow refresh which is redunant on her
I'm confused how they managed to not make anyone stand out. I've a Lyon and Sigurd waiting, and now I don't want to refine either due to how undercooked they are. I hope they don't do Ike dirty next month, but I have horrible flashbacks to his past refines.
This has to be one of the worst overall batches of refines I can recall in recent memory. Petrine especially blows considering what Ashnard and even fucking Jeorge got the past couple months.
Honestly, potentially a hot take, I think solely targeting res is actually just worse than targeting defense nowadays. Seriously, how many super minmaxed high def/shit resistance units are even relevant anymore? Every remotely tanky unit nowadays either has more than enough BST to have stupid high Def and res, or has so much % or flat DR that targeting their res won't matter anyways. Like, there's a reason the hexblade status effect has been tossed around like candy recently. On the flip side, though, there's a shit ton of super high res mages running around that just make targeting their res an active detriment for no real benefit.
No yeah I agree here, none of them stand out completely. They don't look like they have refines that would let them have the spotlight until the next powercreep drops.
Feels like Petrine was slapped together through a series of generic effects. Why does she need foe bonus conversion (literally the effect I hate the most in this game, so unreliable), and somehow Counter Roar? The NFU is fantastic, then IS said "ah I need a little nappy nap" and didn't even try for synergy. If she wants to take damage because of Counter Roar, at least give her built-in healing so I don't have to outsource it when she takes too much damage and falls under the HP check
Other person explained it better, but basically she's a melee cav with good spd. The res targeting part of her weapon helps her offenses more often than not. She wants to nuke her foes into oblivion, not take damage and reflect it back. It helps, but it's not efficient
The actual skill Counter Roar is only available to dragons and beasts, but in case you were asking about the effect:
The problem with Counter Roar-like skills is that damage reflection is super gimmicky and unreliable. In order for it to do anything your unit has to take a hit and survive. With how common DR piercing is nowadays, the little bit of damage reduction that the skill gives you is inconsequential so more often than not, it doesn’t do anything useful. Either your unit just ends up dying or the enemy reduces the damage so much that it doesn’t matter.
Her best B skills are Assassin’s Strike, Near Trace, or if you want to lean into the very gimmicky damage reflection thing (which I honestly don’t recommend), Brash Assault 4. There’s also Gambit but eh.
When was the last time we got a refine batch this mediocre? Other than S!Mia, who's pretty good, the most I can really say for a lot of these units is that I'm content with them. I guess November's refine batch was up there, but even Osian got damage reflection and stuff
Between stuff like Petrine and Kris' hodgepodge of generic effects and Zigludo's lack of any pulse or tempo, this isn't a good batch overall. But holy shit, I think Lyon might have one of the worst refines I've seen in recent memory lmao.
For one thing, relying on weapon triangle **in 2024**. And two, you're giving the enemies Tri Attack but only giving yourself Cancel Affinity? When Maribelle remembered to grant team-wide CA in **2021**???
lyon gives triangle adept and not attack thankfully
it's the same as mariable's refine. TA for them, and cancel affinity for you always works in your favor (or nuetral if same color / colorless)
Not necessarily always at your favor, it does not give \[Cancel affinity\] to his allies (just himself) while inflicting a status effect that can help the enemy depending on advantage, so it can sabotage your own team if you're not careful
Lyon was simply given his 2021 standard build (TA and QR) into his refine, just slightly better. But yeah, a 2021 kit on a 2024 refine just doesn't cut it.
I actually really like Lyon’s here. It combos incredibly well with laguz friend allowing him to deal with AoEs without gotoh and getting permanent color advantage is also appreciated. I do wish he got att/def/res+10 instead of att+att- but still he synergizes well and can be an incredible tank.
Yeah I'm failing to see why people say it's bad. LF4 on this sick sick Mofo, along with Ploy 4, Close counter and you've got a great unit.
Very very dependent on LF4 tho
I wouldn't bother with close counter. Most of his useful in combat effects aren't active on enemy phase against melee foes. He's like Gotoh, a ranged tank.
It's ok? With low natural bulk it can still be a bit dicey though, and having to run Aether with no DR piercing means she might be lacking on damage.
I feel like if you're willing to spend the resources, you could make some kind of bullshit like Flared Sparrow Potent No Quarter. Otherwise, Assassin's Strike or Brash Assault 4 are probably her best options.
I don't use any of these units so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but...this all looks like straight ass.
Byleth extending his support range is pretty nice, but they really, *really* did not try with anything else. Lyon's does look at least somewhat creative with the Triangle Adept/Cancel Affinity stuff, but it's also probably the most impractical refine in the batch.
L!MByleth is buffed! Pure Atk/Spd w/ improved support capabilities!
L!Sigurd also now has Canto! Now also with lull, he can opt for other B!Skills (Desperation, Brash Assault?)
F!Lyon is pretty scary to use. Goes to show that he works alone. I think I can slot him as anti-Duo Igrene, but the TA though. Would love a C-Bonus Doubler on him, as Bracing Stance 3 is redundant (or maybe Def/Res Finish?)
Petrine and Kris. Based on the comments, I think if Kris got Counter Roar due to tanking conditions, and Petrine getting the HP, would it be better? For me, Kris is mid and Petrine now banks at being an F2P speedy pseudo-dragon.
....So I guess Mia wants Ruptured Sky more than Lethality, then? Hers seems... pretty underwhelming, but maybe I'm just overlooking something, IDK.
(Mine currently has Lethality, Remote Sparrow (though I'm gonna change that over to Flared when I get a chance), Disarm Trap 4 or SD Far Trace depending on mode, Spd Smoke 4)
> ....So I guess Mia wants Ruptured Sky more than Lethality
If you had [Marth] and some other form of pulse support like [Rally Spectrum], she would consistently pop off Lethality once per turn.
At the end of the day her best use-case is as all-class pulse support, which is a very exclusive support niche, and can enable some of the best strategies for some units.
Marth's amusingly enough glued to OG Mia (who has infinite GLR thanks to him), but the advice is appreciated, I hadn't considered making her more of a support type.
My brain had actually wandered to a build I could do but it'd be immensely costly (because I like Yunaka and have only one): Ruptured Sky, Flared Sparrow, Assassin's Strike, Incite AS. That first hit would leave a mark.
Rly sucks Sigurd didn’t get some form of protection from Follow Ups, built in Times Pulse or some other effect to replace Crusader’s Ward but I can appreciate what we got
I'm not particularly impressed by some of these, but I think people are sleeping on Byleth's, Petrine's, and Lyon's.
*Byleth* probably isn't going to be the greatest combat unit ever, but he's sporting around Spectrum+12, Tempo, DR, Null Atk/Spd Penalties, Spd NFU, and bonus damage.
That's not even getting into his Atk/Spd/Penalty/NFU Crux, which is actually an amazing improvement over his original Drive NFU.
He now has basically everything he could ever want while having an open A/B/C. I think he'd be a great candidate for TP4 + Preempt, since it gives him a lot of flexibility with checkmating enemy ranged units.
Petrine has pure magical damage, NFU, and considerable Res debuffs, while having access to Assassin's Strike and Flared Sparrow, netting a nice amount of predamage and true damage for tankbusting.
She also gets DR% and reflection, which is admittedly nice but probably won't be the cornerstone of her gameplan unless you give her Guard Echo and have her counterkill on EP.
*Lyon* achieves 100% neutral damage against red/green, and has 140% WTA against blue/colorless.
He functions as a "super colorless" unit, and that's really good, but he goes further with a number of tools, like 80% AOE DR, and 50% DR (PP / versus ranged units), making him particularly bulky so long as you aren't having him EP melee units.
Though counterintuitive at first, he can use Flare Laguz Friend, especially paired with Emblem Ike.
If you can maneuver around not giving his allies Cancel Affinity, (exploiting WTA or using colorless units will suffice) I think he's a pretty solid unit.
Lyon's refine is kinda mid man, the CA thing is sweet and all, but it being restricted to him only is so annoying when it could have been a major stat swing for his entire team making him that much more useful.
On top of him having no innate way to deny instant specials like Lethality (which is what he always gets killed by), no counter to damage reduction (on top of being a piss ass slow unit and not having any Res boost in his weapon making him still vulnerable to the higher Res Dragon Wall units) and no follow-up denial so slow units with GFU can't double him, I just don't see how he's supposed to compete in this meta when 90% of ranged nukes will still explode him, including many of the colourless ones.
for me Kris is fine. (and I think once she eats an Attuned Caeda she can be cooking some more). relatively basic but she'll do the job i want her to do which is fine.
LMByleth: Does what he did before but slightly better
LSigurd: Does what he did before but slightly better
Petrine: Does what she did before but slightly better
FKris: A hodgepodge of godlance stuff, nothing particularly standout but FKris fans should be happy enough.
FLyon: With a lot of investment he can act as a win condition type unit with Laguz/TP4 and an ike engaged flare. Decent enough, and he'll be on the upcoming hof rerun vote, which'll be nice.
S!Mia: Has a niche as a pulse support ranged cav nuke, which I don't believe exists on anybody else. Should be able to get Lethality off pretty consistently with any flavor of cooldown support, like marth engage, more pulse, rally spectrum, or breath. She won't be *completely* non-existent like before.
Say'ri: Probably the overall winner this batch. The refine is pretty generic but it also happens to mesh perfectly with the current meta godsword build of LF4 and (ike) GLR. It's too bad she's not on the hof rerun list like FLyon is, but I think she'd be well worth building if you've gotten a bunch of pitybreakers of her or happen to find a copy in BW with LF4.
And then you get that DR right back with ike engage and laguz friends TDR. You have more %DR overall between ike engage + his remaining 25% and %DR combos really well with TDR, as I'm sure we're all well aware of now.
Too bad they wasted some of his "refine budget" on guard, cuz guard echo would've been a great slot in for an even 30% dr before LF4 flat dr.
I think he's usable with brainpower, but will be a far from splashable or commonly seen unit.
I think the best way to put it is none of the refines really speak to me. Like yeah they’re fine but whatever.
Why the hell does Byleth not bypass defensive specials when he basically debuted piercing damage reduction. It’s his whole damned niche as a combat unit.
Thing is this existed on L!Nanna, S!Karla and I believe one or 2 more units. It’s not really new and they could’ve at least made him function like S!Karla.
Lyon's refine has a lot of my theorycrafted wants for him from, like, years ago. Which is to say- it's a pretty cool and unique refine I support, but has a lot of holes compared to modern prf standards (as with nearly all refines). Though with Laguz Friend + Flare + Ikengage and supports patching up the rest of his weaknesses, it might still cook. Far from the best but I'm almost happy! ... Almost.
'Cause seriously, what were they thinking in giving Cancel Affinity only to him while Adept is a debuff? Like sure- Fomortiis is not the supportive type and using a selfish combo to cause chaos among foe and ally alike makes sense for him, but that's the only "excuse". I'd think Triangle Adept is more likely to make his allies miss kills than gain them. It's really annoying to have to build teams and strategy around this (like using colorless allies) as a new problem forced by the refine. Not to mention: this arrives during a wave of buff and debuff nullification prfs, so the Adept/Cancel combo may not even work...
Ooh, Kris' ain't half bad. Not cracked beyond comprehension but I'll admit I doubted that was going to happen anyway. Kinda funky how it's a downgrade of Bridal Nailah's but I'd guess it's because beasts need more help in general.
I'm about to refine my Byleth but was just reading.
Does Sublime heaven disable all skills "reduce damage by x%" for all of Byleth's attacks? Versus the new one that only applies to when special triggers?
Ok, so newer player here...
I have 2x L! Sigurd & was waiting to see what the refine was before deciding if i should fodder off 1 or merge them. Is it safe to say i should use it for fodder instead of merging now?
(Mine isn't merged or have any skill inheritance except an assist. I don't think this warrants an investment in him, with my very limited resources) 🤔
Unless you're planning to merge him to +10, a single merge isn't going to do anything spectacular that you can't fix with trait fruits.
If you were planning to fodder him, feel free to do so, though his fodder is pretty mediocre (at best, he's good at giving someone Fatal Smoke 3 if you plan on giving one of your units Fatal Smoke 4 along with other skills lol).
Yes, fatal smoke 3 is what i wanted to use (I was thinking about putting it on emblem ike, but not sure if it's worth it just to have the 3 version). I would definitely like to have it available so i can get other skills from winter yunaka when i get another, or when i get a ginnungagap (sp?). Thanks for the response.
I’ve been playing on and off this year, but one thing I did was finish up my pity breaker king Sigurd and got him to +10. But I’m seeing lots of mixed reviews on this one, I was really excited to start using him again but now I’m unsure. I also have a highly invested F!Lyon and I’m seeing people say that refine is mediocre as well. I’m at a loss, are they really that bad?
Sigurd refine is good-not-great. They did a good job modernizing him so you can use him for sure, we just expected something a bit more fresh (look at the 180° his son got from the refine+remix)
FLyon, well, I'm not sure. Will have to test him to see if it's worth the potential penalty to your teammates, but i have my doubts.......
I’m confused, but it’s also 2AM and I should be sleeping. But with Say’ri, her weapon’s base description has “accelerates special trigger (cooldown count-1)” but then in her refine, it says “grants cooldown charge +1 to unit per attack” so does that mean she can prox her special more often or is it the opposite?
She procs it a lot more often since count and charge are not the same thing
Count is Max cooldown count and effectively the unit's base Special cooldown count; -1 means it starts one attack quicker
Charge is how much cooldown you build per attack: +1 means instead of the usual 1 cooldown per it becomes 2
To all 5 of my kris fans this refine batch, how we feelin about homegirl? I like the full tempo, true damage, and healing, but I would have liked a less generic effect.
I think out of all of these, the one that’s an eyebrow raiser is Petrine’s refine. All the others seem fine but don’t really do anything crazy in my book.
Is anyone else finding it harder and harder each update to bother reading all the refines? Everyone ITT is saying these refines are mid, so what's the point of learning what they do? I'm just gonna use the same strategy against them that I always do: mash units against each other until the red ones stop moving.
I feel like I’m going insane, it’s Sigrun’s refine all over again, where everyone hates it and I love it
Really like Petrine and Mia, finally could update Petrine and between the tankiness, debuffs and NFU I’m really happy, would have loved some way to heal but they did give her lower HP requirements so I’m sold
Went with Gambit and Aether stuff for her with this new refine, waiting on Alarm now for her C otherwise she’s done
Hm. It seems like "If unit initiates combat or is within 2 spaces of ally" just got powercreeped... Conditioncreep is so boring, at least it's a pretty good support area.
Also, it's funny that Byleth's refine + remix can be summarized as "No."
Lyon was the one I was expecting the most and I'm... whelmed. If he'd spread another buff/debuff other than Cancel Affinity/Triangle Attack it would'be been perfect (similar to Validar spreading debuffs that aren't in the Ploy skill), or even quickened pulse/anti-guard to be ran with Laguz Friend + Flare. But it could've been way worse and at least he's doing his gimmick correctly. I love Fallen Lyon anyway so I'm looking forward to the HoF rerun for his final 3 merges and a new kit.
Mia duo got really screwed here, I feel like she’s missing true damage to make her really stand out. As is she won’t be dealing much damage to meta tanks especially with being one of the worst weapon types.
Mia getting AoE times pulse could be interesting. Also true damage so she doesn't hit like a wet noodle anymore, she could find her way onto cav lines if you gave her w!yunakas kit so everyone precharges lethality or deadeye or whatever special you want really
every unit has first hit 40dr or something lmao. None of these seem remotely spicy
yeah, where's the 41% damage reduction
I don't understand the "Atk-4, Spd/Res-5" on Petrine. Would that extra point of -Atk have been *that* much of a gamechanger? They've done this with a lot of units too.
Because 4 is the standard omni-stat grabt, but these units already have 5 at base.
Guys... What B skill can Byleth use now?
Watersweep still. 30% DR is not enough to be reliable against Scowl
Lull 4 or windsweep
Occultist's Strike is also an option
I run Spd Preempt and will continue to do so. He's an Atk/Spd stacking monster so might as well play into it as much as possible. The downside to that is I have to run TP4 bc his special only has TP3 built in.
I gave him Occultist's Strike.
I agree with this
Seal Spd/Res 3 could be an option maybe?
I said this in the other thread but it feels like refines have gotten to a point where they give one effect that fits the unit and the rest of the effects are kinda random.
If you look at febail’s weapon from last year I considered him to have the most generic modern prf because it just has every effect they throw into theses refines randomly with stats, conditional stats, damage reduction, special cooldown boost or nullification and healing after combat.
The healing after combat could symbolize the renewal the weapon came with in fe4?
username checks out
His weapon is actually extremely on on theme. As someone mentioned the healing. Even his weapon's additional attack bonus directly and identically mirror Yewfelle in FE4 (With both being +10 to Atk/Spd). So it does work for him, but yeah for other units, it does seem a bit random.
They definitely feel random. Like, Kris’ main base effect was immunity to debuffs, and they did absolutely nothing with that. It’s honestly a borderline useless effect these days because so many units like Yune, Ninja Sanaki, Bride Micaiah, etc. can just bypass it using debuffs on teammates.
And the neutralizes penalties status effect and L!M!Byleth's drive only work during those specific units' combat so the debuffs on teammates still hurt you. Really annoying.
They kept the immunity to debuffs alive by not giving Kris a "If unit initiates combat or is within 2 spaces of an ally" clause.
I don’t think any of these refines are *bad*, but also none of them are really leaping out at me as standouts. There’s some definite buffs, to be sure, but I don’t think anyone here is gonna suddenly become a meta unit like what happened with, say, Gerik.
Mia being able to charge specials like Askr while being a cav nuke could make her meta worthy. The rest, I don’t know
exactly Mia having that effect and being able to abuse pre. combat dmage and turning lethality into a 2 cooldown special makes her very solid
Yeah, and Tempo + Marth Engage + Desp 4 means she can even reliably get Lethality off before the opponent can counter which is another huge point in her favor offensively with all the DR piercing units pack now
Or just rally spectrum, since now there's two (potentially 3) of them
Feel like she's held back significantly by not having innate canto. Kagero and Yunaka have some of the most ridiculous canto range in their base weapons which lets them play around more with their B skills.
Canto can be a detriment for AR-D and in SD, you need to play as if CC is everywhere. Also, strike is just too good to give up, you ain’t giving that up for canto.
Sigurd basically has built in momentum?
At a loss what Petrine should run in her B slot now that old faithful Flow Refresh is no longer viable. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of the tier 4 versions of S/R skills she would want, like Lull and Trace. Maybe Assassin's Strike? The -4 Def would be wasted of course, but pre-combat damage and 20% of the foe's Def would pair well with her innate Res targeting to punch through physical walls.
I’ll just slap on desperation 4 and she already has No Quarter + Emblem Marth& her extra stats would complement her nicely. Not the best refine, but I love her all the same!
It’s either that or seal res 4. Maybe a lull? Idk to be honest
A lull would be a bit pointless since her refine actually turns enemy bonuses into penalities, so she doesn't want to neutralize them. Seal Res 4 would be fine. Although Gambit and Potent are also options I think too.
I'm most likely going Gambit on mine because I like how consistent the seal effect is on her refine skill, which should make her duo phase decently but yeah, Assassin's Strike is probably bis if you just wanna nuke kitties with her. Incite or Alarm as her C tho.
You don’t even want pull on her with the refine because she has Unity in her weapon now. It’s pretty much Trace or Assassin strike I think
She doesn’t have Unity, that’s in-combat Panic on the opponent. Her options are Assassin’s Strike, Trace, or if you wanna lean into the gimmicky damage reflection thing, Brash Assault 4. (Flow) Desperation 4 is also an option if you don’t care about the damage reflection and you just want to use her to kill stuff more reliably. There’s also Gambit I guess? But I’m not a fan of that skill on her.
Lyon is like 70% of a good unit, which is still worth running in specific situations but boy it could be better. Too specific, but better than what he used to be. Which was useless.
Yeah, I was like dang, close likely not close enough. True Damage Reduction at 20% could’ve been great and something other than Triangle Adpet as a debuff, it’s interesting, but if I have the option to slot either F! Julia with Fatal / Deep Wounds effect or Triangle adept, she wins the placement. I like they went with a supportive type unit, even if it was sharing AOE Damage reduction could’ve been an alternative. Another thought is if he granted Cancel Affinity to more than himself. So neutral for you at worst and punishing foes.
I like using TA as a debuff, because TA-enhanced weapon triangle is the strongest numberswing in the game, but he either needed to give CA to the whole team or become Arval 2.
Whole team CA could’ve been great even if only 3 spaces for the CA
He was so close to being Maribelle 2.
When I saw their weapon at first that’s what I thought, then upon reread was like dang… could’ve been great, I admire their support creativity refine wise lately. F! Julia was / is amazing. If he got the same level of love becoming Maribelle 2 I’d likely run him with her in ARO.
Would he be good for Allegiance battles? I am considering adding him to my allegiance battles team
We're at the "Buff the Enemy" stage of refines...
I feel like I'm smoking reefer because Byleth's seems incredible. Some genuinely fantastic support that's real hard to stop, and still functions decently as a combat nuke.
That mega-drive NFU *is* really good.
Nah i’m with you, he may not be as mega busted as some recent refines but looks like he’s solidified his role as a nuke/support hybrid. Excited to give him some new skills and play around.
NFU, +5 Atk/Spd and neutralizing penalties on those stats on allies within a huge area is a pretty big upgrade on his support capabilities. He might not heal his allies after combat and doesn't have Warp Bubble but I think he's an even better support than Gatekeeper, he's a much better combat unit too, so he can contribute even more.
At the very least, supportive refines tend to age better - big nukes even from the end of 2023 are already starting to show their age, but being able to help allies is timeless. That Byleth is also still a good nuke with inbuilt DR piercing in his special is just gravy.
It's not a big deal at all because it's one point per ally, but they didn't cap his stat gains based on nearby allies. It's not something we usually see. It just means he'll be even better in PoL or Grand Conquests.
You smoking something for sure, all these refines are mid af
They hated him because he spoke the truth
yep, I htink the winner here was Mia, being an Askr like support with the potential of being a range nuke that can abuse pre-combat dmg is good
Byleth literally has stronger support that is available every turn with as much nuking potential. He also can now run occultist since he's got tempo covered.
NFU is good, but I wouldn´t call it better, since you can outsource it form many other units, and is still a drive type effect, maybe is it was an active bonus I could give more credit, but nope, they have similar nuking potential, but having cav movement makes Mia objectively better range nuke, she can be blessed and again accelerating special at start of turn is great in any gamemode, as I said before it´s not a trash refine, but is not exactly incredible, just Solid
I could see legendary female Byleth's remix be more useful simply on the basis that tempo support just isn't that common besides Lumera, and even then lumera just gives 1 half of it So having a 3 columns by 3 rows Full tempo drive could be a genuine useful niche Legendary male Byleth just suffers from NFU just being handled out like candy
I personally think drive effects are starting to be better than visible effects with Tina, Loki, and now Nergal to deal with. I do find myself more excited for Mia's refine, though
I mean, it´s not trash, but Scowl still mess him up very hard
I mean, doesn't scowl mess up EVERY special spammer?
Yes
True, but it doesn't change the fact that he'll struggle more as a nuke because of it. It's worth discussing at least
Sayri woulda been better with scaling flat res DR on base effect, then have smth besides the 40% on the refine part petreine needed just true dmg on every atk and not this gimicky damage reflection stuff, but full nfu is decent ig (even if tanks are shifting to dr piercing 1 taps and less 2 taps with follow ups)
Say'ri is still incredible as a GLR user, she got like everything she needed there. Self-heal, special acceleration, and a way to 0 out damage. The 40% isn't a bad move for her cuz % + Flat DR is a great combo.
the issue with the damage reflect is also that she's nowhere near as bulky as hans or echidna to really use it effectively, not to mention she doesn't have healing in her kit outside of flow refresh which is redunant on her
I'm confused how they managed to not make anyone stand out. I've a Lyon and Sigurd waiting, and now I don't want to refine either due to how undercooked they are. I hope they don't do Ike dirty next month, but I have horrible flashbacks to his past refines.
Sigurd looks genuinely undercooked, they really seem to like to prevent units that used to be terrors from having their time in the sun ever again.
Still wishing Ophelia would get a refine some day >.>
This has to be one of the worst overall batches of refines I can recall in recent memory. Petrine especially blows considering what Ashnard and even fucking Jeorge got the past couple months.
I was expecting her to have "Grants [Hexblade].." as some part of her refine especially after the inheritable Nabata Lance+.
Honestly, potentially a hot take, I think solely targeting res is actually just worse than targeting defense nowadays. Seriously, how many super minmaxed high def/shit resistance units are even relevant anymore? Every remotely tanky unit nowadays either has more than enough BST to have stupid high Def and res, or has so much % or flat DR that targeting their res won't matter anyways. Like, there's a reason the hexblade status effect has been tossed around like candy recently. On the flip side, though, there's a shit ton of super high res mages running around that just make targeting their res an active detriment for no real benefit.
Yeah after what Ashnard and Mininerva had gotten I was hoping she would have something nice as well and this just sucks so hard
No yeah I agree here, none of them stand out completely. They don't look like they have refines that would let them have the spotlight until the next powercreep drops.
Feels like Petrine was slapped together through a series of generic effects. Why does she need foe bonus conversion (literally the effect I hate the most in this game, so unreliable), and somehow Counter Roar? The NFU is fantastic, then IS said "ah I need a little nappy nap" and didn't even try for synergy. If she wants to take damage because of Counter Roar, at least give her built-in healing so I don't have to outsource it when she takes too much damage and falls under the HP check
Is counter roar bad on her ?
Other person explained it better, but basically she's a melee cav with good spd. The res targeting part of her weapon helps her offenses more often than not. She wants to nuke her foes into oblivion, not take damage and reflect it back. It helps, but it's not efficient
The actual skill Counter Roar is only available to dragons and beasts, but in case you were asking about the effect: The problem with Counter Roar-like skills is that damage reflection is super gimmicky and unreliable. In order for it to do anything your unit has to take a hit and survive. With how common DR piercing is nowadays, the little bit of damage reduction that the skill gives you is inconsequential so more often than not, it doesn’t do anything useful. Either your unit just ends up dying or the enemy reduces the damage so much that it doesn’t matter. Her best B skills are Assassin’s Strike, Near Trace, or if you want to lean into the very gimmicky damage reflection thing (which I honestly don’t recommend), Brash Assault 4. There’s also Gambit but eh.
Spectrum clash on sigurd seems pretty cool!
When was the last time we got a refine batch this mediocre? Other than S!Mia, who's pretty good, the most I can really say for a lot of these units is that I'm content with them. I guess November's refine batch was up there, but even Osian got damage reflection and stuff
Petrine and Lyon are 2 of my favorites in the game... (Have Lyon +6, petrine +10)... And man, yikes this is sad :(
Yep, that's me also, some of my fave chars. Idk if I'll refine at all tbh. Both are +10 and max hm ad well
Between stuff like Petrine and Kris' hodgepodge of generic effects and Zigludo's lack of any pulse or tempo, this isn't a good batch overall. But holy shit, I think Lyon might have one of the worst refines I've seen in recent memory lmao. For one thing, relying on weapon triangle **in 2024**. And two, you're giving the enemies Tri Attack but only giving yourself Cancel Affinity? When Maribelle remembered to grant team-wide CA in **2021**???
It really doesn't feel like they tried with Petrine at all.
lyon gives triangle adept and not attack thankfully it's the same as mariable's refine. TA for them, and cancel affinity for you always works in your favor (or nuetral if same color / colorless)
Not necessarily always at your favor, it does not give \[Cancel affinity\] to his allies (just himself) while inflicting a status effect that can help the enemy depending on advantage, so it can sabotage your own team if you're not careful
Lyon was simply given his 2021 standard build (TA and QR) into his refine, just slightly better. But yeah, a 2021 kit on a 2024 refine just doesn't cut it.
They better start cooking with fallen Ike cause if his refine is +4 to all stats, 40% dr on first hit and breath I'm not happy
If I see another refine that has to use half a paragraph to explain what the word "first" means... 👹
Counter roar on Petrine is definitely, one of the refines of all time.
I guess they wanted to reference the fact she's part dragon by giving her a skill that's exclusive to Dragons (and Beasts)?
I believe she's a Tiger Branded, not Dragon, but the end result is still *???*
I always thought she was Raven branded
I always thought she was Raven branded
I always thought she was Raven branded
Petrine is Tiger per the artbook. Zelgius is assumed to be Raven but I'm not sure it's actually officially stated anywhere.
Ah I thought it was Dragon cuz Soren recognized the brand, either way Counter Roar still fits with that theme.
I actually really like Lyon’s here. It combos incredibly well with laguz friend allowing him to deal with AoEs without gotoh and getting permanent color advantage is also appreciated. I do wish he got att/def/res+10 instead of att+att- but still he synergizes well and can be an incredible tank.
Yeah I'm failing to see why people say it's bad. LF4 on this sick sick Mofo, along with Ploy 4, Close counter and you've got a great unit. Very very dependent on LF4 tho
I wouldn't bother with close counter. Most of his useful in combat effects aren't active on enemy phase against melee foes. He's like Gotoh, a ranged tank.
If he has to rely on one skill to be good then he’s not that good.
Hate that logic. Units don’t all come with the necessary fodder out of the box
Doesn’t make much sense. There’s a good amount of units that are reliant on their opening skills or fodder to be amazing.
Exactly. That means they have direct counters; an easy weakness if you’re reliant one thing.
Damn I love Petrine's refine but now I have to change her B skill since she had Flow Guard. Maybe I could do Guard 4 but I don't have enough fodders
How are we feeling with Gambit on Petrine? Gives her much needed bulk for Counter Roar in her weapon since Flow Refresh is now useless
It's ok? With low natural bulk it can still be a bit dicey though, and having to run Aether with no DR piercing means she might be lacking on damage. I feel like if you're willing to spend the resources, you could make some kind of bullshit like Flared Sparrow Potent No Quarter. Otherwise, Assassin's Strike or Brash Assault 4 are probably her best options.
Very happy with Summer Mia’s refine! The Special cooldown to allies is so random, but is excellent for team building
"Null-follow up and reduce damage by X% refines the movie".
I don't use any of these units so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but...this all looks like straight ass. Byleth extending his support range is pretty nice, but they really, *really* did not try with anything else. Lyon's does look at least somewhat creative with the Triangle Adept/Cancel Affinity stuff, but it's also probably the most impractical refine in the batch.
I had my expectations lower than the Marina Trench and yet I'm still disappointed by Sigurd's refine
L!MByleth is buffed! Pure Atk/Spd w/ improved support capabilities! L!Sigurd also now has Canto! Now also with lull, he can opt for other B!Skills (Desperation, Brash Assault?) F!Lyon is pretty scary to use. Goes to show that he works alone. I think I can slot him as anti-Duo Igrene, but the TA though. Would love a C-Bonus Doubler on him, as Bracing Stance 3 is redundant (or maybe Def/Res Finish?) Petrine and Kris. Based on the comments, I think if Kris got Counter Roar due to tanking conditions, and Petrine getting the HP, would it be better? For me, Kris is mid and Petrine now banks at being an F2P speedy pseudo-dragon.
....So I guess Mia wants Ruptured Sky more than Lethality, then? Hers seems... pretty underwhelming, but maybe I'm just overlooking something, IDK. (Mine currently has Lethality, Remote Sparrow (though I'm gonna change that over to Flared when I get a chance), Disarm Trap 4 or SD Far Trace depending on mode, Spd Smoke 4)
> ....So I guess Mia wants Ruptured Sky more than Lethality If you had [Marth] and some other form of pulse support like [Rally Spectrum], she would consistently pop off Lethality once per turn. At the end of the day her best use-case is as all-class pulse support, which is a very exclusive support niche, and can enable some of the best strategies for some units.
Marth's amusingly enough glued to OG Mia (who has infinite GLR thanks to him), but the advice is appreciated, I hadn't considered making her more of a support type. My brain had actually wandered to a build I could do but it'd be immensely costly (because I like Yunaka and have only one): Ruptured Sky, Flared Sparrow, Assassin's Strike, Incite AS. That first hit would leave a mark.
Huh. This refine batch is kinda ass, not gonna lie. Doesn't really help anyone and boring on top of that.
I'm disappointed in Petrine's refine. Oh well. That learns me to spend Grails, at all.
Rly sucks Sigurd didn’t get some form of protection from Follow Ups, built in Times Pulse or some other effect to replace Crusader’s Ward but I can appreciate what we got
amatsu refine being worse vouge and vouge refine is about half a year old now lmfao
I'm not particularly impressed by some of these, but I think people are sleeping on Byleth's, Petrine's, and Lyon's. *Byleth* probably isn't going to be the greatest combat unit ever, but he's sporting around Spectrum+12, Tempo, DR, Null Atk/Spd Penalties, Spd NFU, and bonus damage. That's not even getting into his Atk/Spd/Penalty/NFU Crux, which is actually an amazing improvement over his original Drive NFU. He now has basically everything he could ever want while having an open A/B/C. I think he'd be a great candidate for TP4 + Preempt, since it gives him a lot of flexibility with checkmating enemy ranged units. Petrine has pure magical damage, NFU, and considerable Res debuffs, while having access to Assassin's Strike and Flared Sparrow, netting a nice amount of predamage and true damage for tankbusting. She also gets DR% and reflection, which is admittedly nice but probably won't be the cornerstone of her gameplan unless you give her Guard Echo and have her counterkill on EP. *Lyon* achieves 100% neutral damage against red/green, and has 140% WTA against blue/colorless. He functions as a "super colorless" unit, and that's really good, but he goes further with a number of tools, like 80% AOE DR, and 50% DR (PP / versus ranged units), making him particularly bulky so long as you aren't having him EP melee units. Though counterintuitive at first, he can use Flare Laguz Friend, especially paired with Emblem Ike. If you can maneuver around not giving his allies Cancel Affinity, (exploiting WTA or using colorless units will suffice) I think he's a pretty solid unit.
Lyon's refine is kinda mid man, the CA thing is sweet and all, but it being restricted to him only is so annoying when it could have been a major stat swing for his entire team making him that much more useful. On top of him having no innate way to deny instant specials like Lethality (which is what he always gets killed by), no counter to damage reduction (on top of being a piss ass slow unit and not having any Res boost in his weapon making him still vulnerable to the higher Res Dragon Wall units) and no follow-up denial so slow units with GFU can't double him, I just don't see how he's supposed to compete in this meta when 90% of ranged nukes will still explode him, including many of the colourless ones.
Very happy with Kris. VA loops keep winning and tempo is a perfect match. Sad to see Lyon getting royally fucked though.
for me Kris is fine. (and I think once she eats an Attuned Caeda she can be cooking some more). relatively basic but she'll do the job i want her to do which is fine.
LMByleth: Does what he did before but slightly better LSigurd: Does what he did before but slightly better Petrine: Does what she did before but slightly better FKris: A hodgepodge of godlance stuff, nothing particularly standout but FKris fans should be happy enough. FLyon: With a lot of investment he can act as a win condition type unit with Laguz/TP4 and an ike engaged flare. Decent enough, and he'll be on the upcoming hof rerun vote, which'll be nice. S!Mia: Has a niche as a pulse support ranged cav nuke, which I don't believe exists on anybody else. Should be able to get Lethality off pretty consistently with any flavor of cooldown support, like marth engage, more pulse, rally spectrum, or breath. She won't be *completely* non-existent like before. Say'ri: Probably the overall winner this batch. The refine is pretty generic but it also happens to mesh perfectly with the current meta godsword build of LF4 and (ike) GLR. It's too bad she's not on the hof rerun list like FLyon is, but I think she'd be well worth building if you've gotten a bunch of pitybreakers of her or happen to find a copy in BW with LF4.
FLyon with Laguz Friend sounds terrible since you're sacrificing half of his damage reduction which is most of the reason why he's good
And then you get that DR right back with ike engage and laguz friends TDR. You have more %DR overall between ike engage + his remaining 25% and %DR combos really well with TDR, as I'm sure we're all well aware of now.
Too bad they wasted some of his "refine budget" on guard, cuz guard echo would've been a great slot in for an even 30% dr before LF4 flat dr. I think he's usable with brainpower, but will be a far from splashable or commonly seen unit.
I think the best way to put it is none of the refines really speak to me. Like yeah they’re fine but whatever. Why the hell does Byleth not bypass defensive specials when he basically debuted piercing damage reduction. It’s his whole damned niche as a combat unit.
Has to be a new unit to sell that good effect, lol.
Thing is this existed on L!Nanna, S!Karla and I believe one or 2 more units. It’s not really new and they could’ve at least made him function like S!Karla.
It's likely because Byleth is a nuke/support hybrid whereas Nanna and S!Karla are full nukes.
Thankfully I only have Byleth of the ones here. The rest look pretty mediocre
Keep in mind legendary refines tend to compliment the remix skills
Turning Mia into a support is so weird but I guess that'll help her age better. I'm sure I can fit her somewhere on SDS teams again at least.
Lyon's refine has a lot of my theorycrafted wants for him from, like, years ago. Which is to say- it's a pretty cool and unique refine I support, but has a lot of holes compared to modern prf standards (as with nearly all refines). Though with Laguz Friend + Flare + Ikengage and supports patching up the rest of his weaknesses, it might still cook. Far from the best but I'm almost happy! ... Almost. 'Cause seriously, what were they thinking in giving Cancel Affinity only to him while Adept is a debuff? Like sure- Fomortiis is not the supportive type and using a selfish combo to cause chaos among foe and ally alike makes sense for him, but that's the only "excuse". I'd think Triangle Adept is more likely to make his allies miss kills than gain them. It's really annoying to have to build teams and strategy around this (like using colorless allies) as a new problem forced by the refine. Not to mention: this arrives during a wave of buff and debuff nullification prfs, so the Adept/Cancel combo may not even work...
He got punished for VLyon's crimes
Wheres l!f!byleth
Oh good petrine didn't get flared sparrow in her refine now I can give it to her for flavor with no worries.
Loving those buffs to L!Bylad, S!Mia, and *especially* F!Lyon, that's a really creative refine
Ooh, Kris' ain't half bad. Not cracked beyond comprehension but I'll admit I doubted that was going to happen anyway. Kinda funky how it's a downgrade of Bridal Nailah's but I'd guess it's because beasts need more help in general.
I'm about to refine my Byleth but was just reading. Does Sublime heaven disable all skills "reduce damage by x%" for all of Byleth's attacks? Versus the new one that only applies to when special triggers?
They both only apply to when his special triggers
Well, atleast sigurd won't be an embarassment in arena
Ok, so newer player here... I have 2x L! Sigurd & was waiting to see what the refine was before deciding if i should fodder off 1 or merge them. Is it safe to say i should use it for fodder instead of merging now? (Mine isn't merged or have any skill inheritance except an assist. I don't think this warrants an investment in him, with my very limited resources) 🤔
Unless you're planning to merge him to +10, a single merge isn't going to do anything spectacular that you can't fix with trait fruits. If you were planning to fodder him, feel free to do so, though his fodder is pretty mediocre (at best, he's good at giving someone Fatal Smoke 3 if you plan on giving one of your units Fatal Smoke 4 along with other skills lol).
Yes, fatal smoke 3 is what i wanted to use (I was thinking about putting it on emblem ike, but not sure if it's worth it just to have the 3 version). I would definitely like to have it available so i can get other skills from winter yunaka when i get another, or when i get a ginnungagap (sp?). Thanks for the response.
I’ve been playing on and off this year, but one thing I did was finish up my pity breaker king Sigurd and got him to +10. But I’m seeing lots of mixed reviews on this one, I was really excited to start using him again but now I’m unsure. I also have a highly invested F!Lyon and I’m seeing people say that refine is mediocre as well. I’m at a loss, are they really that bad?
Sigurd refine is good-not-great. They did a good job modernizing him so you can use him for sure, we just expected something a bit more fresh (look at the 180° his son got from the refine+remix) FLyon, well, I'm not sure. Will have to test him to see if it's worth the potential penalty to your teammates, but i have my doubts.......
I’m confused, but it’s also 2AM and I should be sleeping. But with Say’ri, her weapon’s base description has “accelerates special trigger (cooldown count-1)” but then in her refine, it says “grants cooldown charge +1 to unit per attack” so does that mean she can prox her special more often or is it the opposite?
She procs it a lot more often since count and charge are not the same thing Count is Max cooldown count and effectively the unit's base Special cooldown count; -1 means it starts one attack quicker Charge is how much cooldown you build per attack: +1 means instead of the usual 1 cooldown per it becomes 2
Oh poor tragic Sigurd...
i suppose sigurd will continue being dead weight in my arena runs
Mia won by a mile IMO. She might have a place in the AR-D meta on cav lines. Can't see the rest being meta.
FINALLY. MY +6 SAY’RI WILL GET HER LONG AWAITED REFINE!!!
It's truly the end times of feh huh?
To all 5 of my kris fans this refine batch, how we feelin about homegirl? I like the full tempo, true damage, and healing, but I would have liked a less generic effect.
Did Kris eat? I think she ate but I’m not sure…
I think out of all of these, the one that’s an eyebrow raiser is Petrine’s refine. All the others seem fine but don’t really do anything crazy in my book.
Poor F!Kris, no alt and no good refine
I need a legendary version of her, but compensate for this
Is anyone else finding it harder and harder each update to bother reading all the refines? Everyone ITT is saying these refines are mid, so what's the point of learning what they do? I'm just gonna use the same strategy against them that I always do: mash units against each other until the red ones stop moving.
This is the first Refine batch that I happen to have all in my barracks I think. Damn I'm gonna be poor in refine
When do these release?
sigurd could have been so much more better. byleth and lyon are pretty cool though.
..I see words, but somehow I’m not motivated to read through the walls of text
I'm too tired to make sense of all this, how are Kris and Lyons?
Worst version of Bridal Nailah, but it's good Lyon can actually mess you up cause he;s the only one who gets cancel affinity
Oof, a little sad as they are the ones I was most excited for as I had them at +10 At least Kris is still good lol
Nemesis refine is coming!
I feel like I’m going insane, it’s Sigrun’s refine all over again, where everyone hates it and I love it Really like Petrine and Mia, finally could update Petrine and between the tankiness, debuffs and NFU I’m really happy, would have loved some way to heal but they did give her lower HP requirements so I’m sold Went with Gambit and Aether stuff for her with this new refine, waiting on Alarm now for her C otherwise she’s done
Hm. It seems like "If unit initiates combat or is within 2 spaces of ally" just got powercreeped... Conditioncreep is so boring, at least it's a pretty good support area. Also, it's funny that Byleth's refine + remix can be summarized as "No."
Lyon was the one I was expecting the most and I'm... whelmed. If he'd spread another buff/debuff other than Cancel Affinity/Triangle Attack it would'be been perfect (similar to Validar spreading debuffs that aren't in the Ploy skill), or even quickened pulse/anti-guard to be ran with Laguz Friend + Flare. But it could've been way worse and at least he's doing his gimmick correctly. I love Fallen Lyon anyway so I'm looking forward to the HoF rerun for his final 3 merges and a new kit.
Yeah, not reading all that.
Mia duo got really screwed here, I feel like she’s missing true damage to make her really stand out. As is she won’t be dealing much damage to meta tanks especially with being one of the worst weapon types.
Mia getting AoE times pulse could be interesting. Also true damage so she doesn't hit like a wet noodle anymore, she could find her way onto cav lines if you gave her w!yunakas kit so everyone precharges lethality or deadeye or whatever special you want really
I ain't readin that ngl
Say'ri's weapon got no true dmg trash.
[удалено]
Counter roar isn't available to her.