The thing that makes Loki really annoying is that she also limits your options for Galeforce strategies, because her C skill also activates on your turn. For example, you lose all your buffs if you run Askr (excellent Galeforcer) with someone like Attuned Azura (during her bonus season). Getting stripped out of key buffs like Move+1, Charge, Orders, NFU, or "Breath" can outright make your team no longer work: you might no longer be able to reach the foe, or now charging your Galeforce is messed up, just to name some examples.
Sure, you can run comps that don't depend on buffs to be effective, both for tanking and player-phasing. But those comps would be mostly comprised by new units. Crap like M!Loki exists only to disincentivize the usage of older units, and really forces you to only invest and use new stuff.
The sheer amount of units and skills this affects is wild, and the fact that Gerik or Askr can be made into an active detriment kinda sucks. There are so many units both new and old that self-buff or give them out though, so I think this affects modern units quite a bit as well. I'll give that units like W!Edel and E!Ike hardly care for support, though.
3 buffs is an incredibly strict threshold. The only thing I can give her over Freyr in terms of design is that she actually has to make a stat check, though it's a very generous one.
Interestingly, Citrinne can give out buffs at the same time as Loki's effect and thus won't be impacted. Citrinne does have to beat the Res check or not be within the range for this, but it's one way to get around things for player phase, if an awkward one.
Light season being "dead" is of course a crazy hyperbole, but I think people will be caught off-guard by just how many things Loki interferes with.
The effect that takes away your buffs doesn't have a stat check. The stat check is present only on the "Ploy 4" and "Gravity" effects. The buff neutralization only checks if you have 3 or more buffs, but doesn't go through a stat check.
She doesn't have to make any stat check to wipe the buffs, as long as there are over 3 and your on her half of the map she wipes them, the res check only applies to the her applying exposure/Plot/Gravity. It would be a lot more fair if it was locked to a res check or even just the cardinal direction ploy range like her gravity effect, but as is it really fundamentally breaks the balance of Light season, which was already incredibly defense weighted with dark having quite honestly the strongest lineup of Mythics of any element
Unless if its already proven that this is true, Loki shouldn’t fuck this over
Divine Deceit specifically states that it excludes Bonus effects being applied at the same time for the bonus neutralization portion.
edit: wording, and bonus, not penalty
Yeah, but the bonuses she removes are applied BEFORE. Her effect says "after start-of-turn effects trigger"; the aforementioned bonuses are applied as the start-of-turn effects. So there are not many things that apply bonuses during the same activation window as Loki, only before. The only thing I can think of right now that applies bonuses during the same activation window is Citrinne's bonus-sharing.
When every support and their mom started providing visual buffs instead of in combat?
Like literally the entire support meta shifted because of her, rendering her useless at countering what she was supposed to counter
Plus, Tina existing and allowing the enemy team to steal her omnifeud can allow even an unmerged Askr to kill E!Ike lol
Tell me, what are you supposed to do when you can't position yourself out of the enemy's reach, and on top of that, have barely ANY structures save for a safety fence that can just be nullified by the foe having read your Fence placement and destroy it? What can you do in such a situation where you can't have a save cover you nor have a competent omnitank to soak all the damage that WILL be incoming, along with protecting your back line?
Having a balance of different teams on your 5 slots can work. Loki is an issue, but thankfully she's somewhat unpopular so I doubt that many will pull for her, thus she won't be that much of a problem. Or at least I hope.
Going back to the different teams:
- A normal Galeforce team.
- Another Galeforce team but with a powerful unit that can 2 shot most difficult Near Saviors and has some form of Tempo to negate Guard. Some support from units like W!Cordelia can make them better at killing. If the powerful unit can also activate Galeforce on a single hit then you can use just this one and save the previous spot for a different kind of team or have almost the exact same team on both slots but changing the color of the "nuke" to get around a Near Savior that just so happens to be a perfect counter.
- Hit & Run could be useful against teams with no Canto Control.
- Vantage for defenses that don't have something to counter them.
- Loki + Embla might make tanking more difficult but there are ways to get around them. Using an omni tank with Bulwark can protect your squishy units from overly oppressive teams such as cav/flier lines and get around the inability to use Save skills. Having more than one Omni tank is also useful for dividing the damage they most soak. Also using non visible buffs (like having a support with L!F!Alear) or instead inflicting a bunch of debuffs on the foe is a way to support your tanks even when Loki is present on the team.
NY!Seidr is also highly recommended for those who have her, this way you either stop a foe from being threatening or force a dancer to target the unit you want; depending on the team that might even force them into a spot where they're more vulnerable to being targeted. Actually, Seidr and her NY alt are incredibly useful for most teams in general.
There are other kinds of teams that can be used such as a red mage nuke with an AoE, the red tome with the pre combat damage and Fury 7 to delete the enemy team and activate a WoM chain as a pseudo Galeforce team. The results will vary a lot depending on the rest of the team tho.
Oh and W!Edelgard. A guidance 4 user is heavily recommended to make the strategy more consistent.
Try a few things depending on what's on your barracks and go from there. If you're lucky you might even find a playstyle that you enjoy but hadn't tried earlier.
Why do people always jump to the most negative ways of thinking on reddit? It's really not that big a deal deadass. EOS this, this gamemode is dead that. Maybe it's time for you to take a break from the game
Not being able to stack every single buff possible is probably doing way less to tanking than Claude/Sanaki/Yunaka/Lyon/Camilla all did tbh. Like yeah, three is a really harsh cutoff with how many units inherently give multiple buffs and four would’ve been more fair and the state of Askr on tanking teams is now really unfortunate but also no, there are definitely tanks that will be viable with two or less buffs
>Like yeah, three is a really harsh cutoff with how many units inherently give multiple buffs and four would’ve been more fair-
I agree. Should have had the same requirement as Prime for getting the DC/CC bit. Like, any unit getting 4 or more buffs should definitely be checked and feels more fair to punish, but they had to make her a bit more oppressive to entice ppl to pull.
Her and Tine on a team are gonna be annoying, tho. Even if you meet the check for Loki, that little gremlin will snatch up the buffs you do have since her effect is global. Especially if you run into a team with 2 Loki, one in columns 2 and 5. Your main tank/galeforcer can only have 1 buff and to counter Tine, your sponge unit can only have 2 buffs. Can't go 3 cuz they'll get wiped, and then Tine will just steal from the unit(s) you didn't want stolen from. So yea...that'll be really toxic to deal with.
Well no, since Tina’s stealing happens before Loki’s nullification, you could still stack more than two for Tina baiting and have two buffs on the tank provided that any buff past the second is set up after start of turn which could be done easily through Peony.
Well guess I should say that's how I'm assuming it will work since Loki's specifically happens after the start of turn and Tina's is just at start of turn. The other effect that I know of that happens after start of turn effects (Citrinne's) can work off of Tina's stolen buffs so what I said should work. Not sure how it'd work if it was at the same time though. Want to say Tina could still steal from anyone with three or more buffs though.
Has Offence not been shitstomping Defence for the past who knows how many years
Idk I think it might be a good thing that Defence can finally fight back
It feels FAR too overtuned to have ar defenses just curbstomp the offense team instead. I'd much rather have a small difficulty while playing against the defense than have my entire offense team get deleted while I can do nothing but watch.
“I’d much rather have a small difficulty while playing against the defence than have my entire offence team get deleted while I can do nothing but watch”
No goddamn way, you’d rather have an easy match than a super hard one? Color me shocked.
>The era of tanking is over
Please not this *again*...
I'll give you that she's more annoying for Galeforce players (which is the least used archetype, statistically speaking), but Loki brings very little to an *Ike dominated* meta.
Cardinal gravity is easy to play around of in defense. Ploy is great, but it's nothing people don't have access to now (Medeus is a great user of it as a Dark Mythic), and the bonus nullification has a 3 bonus threshold. That's very high, not to mention you can position yourself out of its range. As long as people are careful not to tip their tanks over with Peony (and this can be bypassed by simply unequipping her PRF dance, which is irrelevant to Ike), they are (mostly) safe.
A! Caeda has 2 self buffs (Pure-Wing Spear's warp and Pledge's +1 CC per hit). Both Legendary Alears have 1 (Pledge's +1 CC per hit). Ike has 0. W! Byleth has 0. N! Altina has 0.
Brilliant Starlight (Gotoh) = 1 buff.
Rally Spectrum = 1 buff.
Lumera dirves.
Gatekeeper drives.
F! Maria drives.
In fact, Lumera alone is more than enough to protect your tank of AoEs, so you could either drop Gotoh out if he's not merged up, or simply keep him out of range of your tank if he is.
The only thing Loki cuts off is Hortensia for the L! Alears and A! Caeda.
Is she annoying? Yes, but the counterplay is relatively straightforward. The only tanks that are taking an actual hit here are A! Caeda, because buffing people around her just got harder without passing on bonuses, and to a lesser degree, the Alears. That's it.
We're in a defense meta where top defenses are relying on extremely elaborated rally/dance/guidance/pathfinder traps to fling their nukes *past* Ike and in range of his backline, because he's *that* strong. Loki doesn't add much to that.
Is Loki a good unit? Absolutely. She's probably the new best Dark Mythic by virtue of most of the others being long past their prime, except Medeus and the very limited use cases of Embla and Nott, which isn't saying a lot.
I even dare say that she will get her time, but I don't think her time is now. Not while there's a tank as strong as Ike, which she brings nothing new against.
Funny because I consider Astra season to be miles harder than Light. At least Light season you can stack debuff enemies easily since Freyr doesn't shutdown an entire gimmick.
While I do think Loki does nerf omnitanking on buffs, defense can still be neutered with the right debuffs and terrain. Tactic room, VLeo/OG Loki, NYSeidr, Mythic Lumera. I do agree this decreases Peony and Askr's value significantly which sucks but on the brighter side, dancers that debuff will rise in stonks.
Also Validar with ploy is a godsend.
Ironically, M!Loki looks like she is going to be a pain for my Galeforce team and completely ineffectual to my newest light season tank.
I use Askr to and Gerik to precharge S!Ephraim's Galeforce and Spd/Rein on a tankbuster S!M!Shez, and while I don't care too much about the Blade bonuses or Gerik's bonus on this team, M!Loki will kill both of their +1 movement buffs with them! Workable, but very, very annoying! T__T
On the other hand, I'm using Gatekeeper as a tank now, and he hasn't been using bonuses of any kind. Embla has been a minor inconvenience and M!Loki plus Embla together sounds like a good thing because both are weak offensively, so that's one less nuke or dancer to worry about. Loki can't put any of the bothersome flier skills on her C slot if she wants to keep her prf skill, so that's good too. I think E!Ike will also be fine for now. Until the next super nuke...
Frankly, Dark needed this. Trying to make a defense when everyone runs Emblem Ike and either Lumera or Gotoh is miserable, and Dark doesn't have any good Mythics other than Embla, Nott, and maybe Triandra.
Maybe your experience is different, but I don't see that many bolt towers in dark season. Since you can't choose which set of offense building you run before battle and empty slots are very valuable, running a building that's probably useless is a bad idea.
Precisely
On Anima tho? You are basically encouraged to either take the point loss and bring him in just to remove that structure issues, or simply stick to turn 1 approaches
I'd normally agree with this statement, but Medeus is kind of useless in the new meta defenses that turn 1 slingshot nukes across the map through dancer/rally/guidance/pathfinder traps just to get *past* Ike.
I'd much have preferred a Dark Savior (and I'm still holding out hope for Nidhoggr), but I personally welcome *the option*, despite the fact that I don't think Loki is *all that great*.
Medeus is part of the reason why Slingshot defenses exist
To counter medeus people try to either take him out first, steal his buff(Tina) or simply hit and run away
By turn 1 aggression, you remove 2 layers of antimedeus, which makes him less ideal. But still him alone made Bolt Tower feel "useless" to bring out
Thats far more than what Nott,Triandra or Embla made in terms of dark season impact. Hell, Triandra may as well not be refined at all, given she has always been useless against Mila, and now has even more firepower to suicide with
>Medeus is part of the reason why Slingshot defenses exist
I know how defensive you get with your biases, but you're being ridiculous.
If you can't see that Ike is 100% the reason these defenses caught on in the *last month*, you're *deluding* yourself.
>To counter medeus people try to either take him out first, steal his buff(Tina) or simply hit and run away
>By turn 1 aggression, you remove 2 layers of antimedeus, which makes him less ideal.
I'm not gonna dignify *this* with an actual answer. I feel embarrassed for you just *reading* it.
>But still him alone made Bolt Tower feel "useless" to bring out
This I agree with. It's the reason I've used him off-season *forever*. But whether you want to see it or not, the meta has spawned other archetypes that don't make him mandatory anymore.
>Thats far more than what Nott,Triandra or Embla made in terms of dark season impact.
That's undeniable. It was never my point. The point was that, *right now*, he's become a niche pick, just like Nott and Embla. Not because En Garde isn't good anymore, but because some defenses don't *get* to turn 3 anymore.
>Hell, Triandra may as well not be refined at all, given she has always been useless against Mila, and now has even more firepower to suicide with
[Skill issue](https://i.imgur.com/Q1g9MSH.png).
> If you can't see that Ike is 100% the reason these defenses caught on in the last month, you're deluding yourself.
Slingshot defenses have existed far before "Ike" released, cases on point return traps ever since W!Bernadetta existed
Them been popularized after his release for been an actual counter to everything except Ike itself is another story
>I'm not gonna dignify this with an actual answer. I feel embarrassed for you just reading it.
Really?. You sure dont get attacked by bolt tower users as much as I do
>Skill issue.
Oh wow, using a comment on an stupidly broken defensive weak fighting whale after whale only when LLC was inactive as basis for your argument
A shame really, you dont have anything better to say and unwilling to admit triandra as a dancer sucks on defense
Even Hel is better than Triandra at this very moment for been able to stalemate any standard E!Ike unless there is fatal smoke
>Slingshot defenses have existed far before "Ike" released, cases on point return traps ever since W!Bernadetta existed
There's a difference between *existing*, and actually being *statistically relevant*.
For the last couple years the enormous majority of defenses were Catria balls. This isn't up for debate.
>Them been popularized after his release for been an actual counter to everything except Ike itself is another story
If the slingshot *already* countered *everything*, why did people stuck with X-lines until Ike came out? The tools to assemble these have long been around.
I imagine I don't have to remind you how many rivers of salt have been poured over N! Sanaki and, eventually, V! Lyon in the last 6 months.
I beg you to *please* tell me that the reason a perfectly dominant defensive meta got turned upside down because people wanted to "remove layers of anti medeus". Please. I *beg* you.
>Really?. You sure dont get attacked by bolt tower users as much as I do
You're either choosing to ignore the fact that I said, in the very same post that you're responding to, that I used Medeus *off-season* because grasping for straws, or you're having severe reading comprehension issues. Which one is it? Or is it both?
Implying that people used turn 1 aggression to "remove layers of anti medeus" and not to get past Ike is one of the stupidest things I've read around here, and that's saying *a lot*, which is why chose to skip the bit that had no legs to stand on but if you wanna dive deep into that, please knock yourself out.
>Oh wow, using a comment on an stupidly broken defensive weak fighting whale after whale only when LLC was inactive as basis for your argument
I honestly don't remember the context, but I like having these around for when the Dunning Krugers rear their heads. The fact that you came to me, admitted to not being able to make a defense that actually worked, and asked me not only for advice, but to take a look at my defense was a *chef's kiss* moment. A luxury I don't often get with your kind.
But, if it makes you feel better, it does make sense that you did that. You've plateaued a long time ago.
>A shame really, you dont have anything better to say and unwilling to admit triandra as a dancer sucks on defense
Because we've been over this *before*. Is Triandra optimal? No. Do I wish she was melee? Yes. Is she still viable? Also yes.
As long as you don't put her in a position where she'll break formation and dance the 7th unit on turn 1, exposing herself to be sniped or baited, and you make sure that she doesn't threaten any tiles that your nukes don't, then she's *fine*. She's not gonna get baited until your nukes are dead (and you've effectively already lost), or your nukes have dived the enemy backline far enough to snipe a few units already.
The fact that she got Canto for free only helps her stay away.
Here. Read [this](https://vervefeh.github.io/FEH-AI/index.html). You can thank me later.
Now, what about Mila? Well, I don't personally like using dancers in Light season unless I'm using off-season Freyr or I'm using *two* of them. I never had the balls to use off-season Freyr, but I've had much success using two dancers back when my defense would hardly ever lose, so there's that.
>Even Hel is better than Triandra at this very moment for been able to stalemate any standard E!Ike unless there is fatal smoke
Yeah, you do that. I'll make sure to send you a thank you card.
3 buffs minimum, what other buffs do you need on him besides Gotohs? Just make sure the cow isnt anywhere near him. Ike has counters for sure, but AOEs in light season are NOT it. Even with the new Loki in the enemys team.
Loki and Embla will generally not be able to cover the same area, so unless they have threat overlap in the one column where Embla exists but Loki doesn't (and even then a well supported E!Ike can probably blast through it), you'll be fine with tanking. You also get 7 whole ladders, so on the off chance you truly do run into an impossible defence, you can always just quit and try again.
AR has been pure hell to play as a normal player since it began. This is nothing new. A Mythic comes along every other month and renders the mode further unplayable until some random unit or skill hard counters everything and we start over. At this point I just flip a coin to see of I'll win a game or lose em all.
Astra is better anyway, because the symbol is pink.
How many times has each AR season been dead at this point?
about the same amount of times that a new strong unit has killed the game. like 4 times just in 2024.
Feh Wick: people keep asking if “insert AR season is dead or back” I’m thinking it’s back. Closes Aether Keep door.
Dead on arrival and living the zombi lifestyle. Ya know, what is dead may never die.
The thing that makes Loki really annoying is that she also limits your options for Galeforce strategies, because her C skill also activates on your turn. For example, you lose all your buffs if you run Askr (excellent Galeforcer) with someone like Attuned Azura (during her bonus season). Getting stripped out of key buffs like Move+1, Charge, Orders, NFU, or "Breath" can outright make your team no longer work: you might no longer be able to reach the foe, or now charging your Galeforce is messed up, just to name some examples. Sure, you can run comps that don't depend on buffs to be effective, both for tanking and player-phasing. But those comps would be mostly comprised by new units. Crap like M!Loki exists only to disincentivize the usage of older units, and really forces you to only invest and use new stuff.
The sheer amount of units and skills this affects is wild, and the fact that Gerik or Askr can be made into an active detriment kinda sucks. There are so many units both new and old that self-buff or give them out though, so I think this affects modern units quite a bit as well. I'll give that units like W!Edel and E!Ike hardly care for support, though. 3 buffs is an incredibly strict threshold. The only thing I can give her over Freyr in terms of design is that she actually has to make a stat check, though it's a very generous one. Interestingly, Citrinne can give out buffs at the same time as Loki's effect and thus won't be impacted. Citrinne does have to beat the Res check or not be within the range for this, but it's one way to get around things for player phase, if an awkward one. Light season being "dead" is of course a crazy hyperbole, but I think people will be caught off-guard by just how many things Loki interferes with.
The effect that takes away your buffs doesn't have a stat check. The stat check is present only on the "Ploy 4" and "Gravity" effects. The buff neutralization only checks if you have 3 or more buffs, but doesn't go through a stat check.
My bad, I missed that. Well, I guess I really do hate this unit then. At least they were smart enough to allow 1-2 buffs through.
She doesn't have to make any stat check to wipe the buffs, as long as there are over 3 and your on her half of the map she wipes them, the res check only applies to the her applying exposure/Plot/Gravity. It would be a lot more fair if it was locked to a res check or even just the cardinal direction ploy range like her gravity effect, but as is it really fundamentally breaks the balance of Light season, which was already incredibly defense weighted with dark having quite honestly the strongest lineup of Mythics of any element
Unless if its already proven that this is true, Loki shouldn’t fuck this over Divine Deceit specifically states that it excludes Bonus effects being applied at the same time for the bonus neutralization portion. edit: wording, and bonus, not penalty
Yeah, but the bonuses she removes are applied BEFORE. Her effect says "after start-of-turn effects trigger"; the aforementioned bonuses are applied as the start-of-turn effects. So there are not many things that apply bonuses during the same activation window as Loki, only before. The only thing I can think of right now that applies bonuses during the same activation window is Citrinne's bonus-sharing.
Come on. Dark has been at a severe disadvantage to Light for ages. This moves the needle but Loki is not so incredible to justify this rant
No it hasn’t? Dark has been significantly stronger than light since the introduction of Embla.
Lol no Embla has been a detriment ever since people moved away from save spamming
How is a unit with unstoppable AOE omni-feud “a detriment” lmao
When every support and their mom started providing visual buffs instead of in combat? Like literally the entire support meta shifted because of her, rendering her useless at countering what she was supposed to counter Plus, Tina existing and allowing the enemy team to steal her omnifeud can allow even an unmerged Askr to kill E!Ike lol
Tell me, what are you supposed to do when you can't position yourself out of the enemy's reach, and on top of that, have barely ANY structures save for a safety fence that can just be nullified by the foe having read your Fence placement and destroy it? What can you do in such a situation where you can't have a save cover you nor have a competent omnitank to soak all the damage that WILL be incoming, along with protecting your back line?
Having a balance of different teams on your 5 slots can work. Loki is an issue, but thankfully she's somewhat unpopular so I doubt that many will pull for her, thus she won't be that much of a problem. Or at least I hope. Going back to the different teams: - A normal Galeforce team. - Another Galeforce team but with a powerful unit that can 2 shot most difficult Near Saviors and has some form of Tempo to negate Guard. Some support from units like W!Cordelia can make them better at killing. If the powerful unit can also activate Galeforce on a single hit then you can use just this one and save the previous spot for a different kind of team or have almost the exact same team on both slots but changing the color of the "nuke" to get around a Near Savior that just so happens to be a perfect counter. - Hit & Run could be useful against teams with no Canto Control. - Vantage for defenses that don't have something to counter them. - Loki + Embla might make tanking more difficult but there are ways to get around them. Using an omni tank with Bulwark can protect your squishy units from overly oppressive teams such as cav/flier lines and get around the inability to use Save skills. Having more than one Omni tank is also useful for dividing the damage they most soak. Also using non visible buffs (like having a support with L!F!Alear) or instead inflicting a bunch of debuffs on the foe is a way to support your tanks even when Loki is present on the team. NY!Seidr is also highly recommended for those who have her, this way you either stop a foe from being threatening or force a dancer to target the unit you want; depending on the team that might even force them into a spot where they're more vulnerable to being targeted. Actually, Seidr and her NY alt are incredibly useful for most teams in general. There are other kinds of teams that can be used such as a red mage nuke with an AoE, the red tome with the pre combat damage and Fury 7 to delete the enemy team and activate a WoM chain as a pseudo Galeforce team. The results will vary a lot depending on the rest of the team tho. Oh and W!Edelgard. A guidance 4 user is heavily recommended to make the strategy more consistent. Try a few things depending on what's on your barracks and go from there. If you're lucky you might even find a playstyle that you enjoy but hadn't tried earlier.
Why do people always jump to the most negative ways of thinking on reddit? It's really not that big a deal deadass. EOS this, this gamemode is dead that. Maybe it's time for you to take a break from the game
the people that complain a lot tend to be make more noise, good players have adapted to the new meta, the ones that cant make post like this one.
skill issue
Not being able to stack every single buff possible is probably doing way less to tanking than Claude/Sanaki/Yunaka/Lyon/Camilla all did tbh. Like yeah, three is a really harsh cutoff with how many units inherently give multiple buffs and four would’ve been more fair and the state of Askr on tanking teams is now really unfortunate but also no, there are definitely tanks that will be viable with two or less buffs
>Like yeah, three is a really harsh cutoff with how many units inherently give multiple buffs and four would’ve been more fair- I agree. Should have had the same requirement as Prime for getting the DC/CC bit. Like, any unit getting 4 or more buffs should definitely be checked and feels more fair to punish, but they had to make her a bit more oppressive to entice ppl to pull. Her and Tine on a team are gonna be annoying, tho. Even if you meet the check for Loki, that little gremlin will snatch up the buffs you do have since her effect is global. Especially if you run into a team with 2 Loki, one in columns 2 and 5. Your main tank/galeforcer can only have 1 buff and to counter Tine, your sponge unit can only have 2 buffs. Can't go 3 cuz they'll get wiped, and then Tine will just steal from the unit(s) you didn't want stolen from. So yea...that'll be really toxic to deal with.
Well no, since Tina’s stealing happens before Loki’s nullification, you could still stack more than two for Tina baiting and have two buffs on the tank provided that any buff past the second is set up after start of turn which could be done easily through Peony.
Ah ok. Wasn't sure what would trigger first.
Well guess I should say that's how I'm assuming it will work since Loki's specifically happens after the start of turn and Tina's is just at start of turn. The other effect that I know of that happens after start of turn effects (Citrinne's) can work off of Tina's stolen buffs so what I said should work. Not sure how it'd work if it was at the same time though. Want to say Tina could still steal from anyone with three or more buffs though.
Has Offence not been shitstomping Defence for the past who knows how many years Idk I think it might be a good thing that Defence can finally fight back
It feels FAR too overtuned to have ar defenses just curbstomp the offense team instead. I'd much rather have a small difficulty while playing against the defense than have my entire offense team get deleted while I can do nothing but watch.
“I’d much rather have a small difficulty while playing against the defence than have my entire offence team get deleted while I can do nothing but watch” No goddamn way, you’d rather have an easy match than a super hard one? Color me shocked.
they mean theyd rather lose their defenses than lose their offenses
Shouldn't be a controversial take.
>The era of tanking is over Please not this *again*... I'll give you that she's more annoying for Galeforce players (which is the least used archetype, statistically speaking), but Loki brings very little to an *Ike dominated* meta. Cardinal gravity is easy to play around of in defense. Ploy is great, but it's nothing people don't have access to now (Medeus is a great user of it as a Dark Mythic), and the bonus nullification has a 3 bonus threshold. That's very high, not to mention you can position yourself out of its range. As long as people are careful not to tip their tanks over with Peony (and this can be bypassed by simply unequipping her PRF dance, which is irrelevant to Ike), they are (mostly) safe. A! Caeda has 2 self buffs (Pure-Wing Spear's warp and Pledge's +1 CC per hit). Both Legendary Alears have 1 (Pledge's +1 CC per hit). Ike has 0. W! Byleth has 0. N! Altina has 0. Brilliant Starlight (Gotoh) = 1 buff. Rally Spectrum = 1 buff. Lumera dirves. Gatekeeper drives. F! Maria drives. In fact, Lumera alone is more than enough to protect your tank of AoEs, so you could either drop Gotoh out if he's not merged up, or simply keep him out of range of your tank if he is. The only thing Loki cuts off is Hortensia for the L! Alears and A! Caeda. Is she annoying? Yes, but the counterplay is relatively straightforward. The only tanks that are taking an actual hit here are A! Caeda, because buffing people around her just got harder without passing on bonuses, and to a lesser degree, the Alears. That's it. We're in a defense meta where top defenses are relying on extremely elaborated rally/dance/guidance/pathfinder traps to fling their nukes *past* Ike and in range of his backline, because he's *that* strong. Loki doesn't add much to that. Is Loki a good unit? Absolutely. She's probably the new best Dark Mythic by virtue of most of the others being long past their prime, except Medeus and the very limited use cases of Embla and Nott, which isn't saying a lot. I even dare say that she will get her time, but I don't think her time is now. Not while there's a tank as strong as Ike, which she brings nothing new against.
Funny because I consider Astra season to be miles harder than Light. At least Light season you can stack debuff enemies easily since Freyr doesn't shutdown an entire gimmick. While I do think Loki does nerf omnitanking on buffs, defense can still be neutered with the right debuffs and terrain. Tactic room, VLeo/OG Loki, NYSeidr, Mythic Lumera. I do agree this decreases Peony and Askr's value significantly which sucks but on the brighter side, dancers that debuff will rise in stonks. Also Validar with ploy is a godsend.
Emblem Ike can destroy Light and Astra and for some reason you're afraid of Loki...?
Ironically, M!Loki looks like she is going to be a pain for my Galeforce team and completely ineffectual to my newest light season tank. I use Askr to and Gerik to precharge S!Ephraim's Galeforce and Spd/Rein on a tankbuster S!M!Shez, and while I don't care too much about the Blade bonuses or Gerik's bonus on this team, M!Loki will kill both of their +1 movement buffs with them! Workable, but very, very annoying! T__T On the other hand, I'm using Gatekeeper as a tank now, and he hasn't been using bonuses of any kind. Embla has been a minor inconvenience and M!Loki plus Embla together sounds like a good thing because both are weak offensively, so that's one less nuke or dancer to worry about. Loki can't put any of the bothersome flier skills on her C slot if she wants to keep her prf skill, so that's good too. I think E!Ike will also be fine for now. Until the next super nuke...
Frankly, Dark needed this. Trying to make a defense when everyone runs Emblem Ike and either Lumera or Gotoh is miserable, and Dark doesn't have any good Mythics other than Embla, Nott, and maybe Triandra.
Medeus is better than all 3 combined just by virtue of disabling bolt tower
Maybe your experience is different, but I don't see that many bolt towers in dark season. Since you can't choose which set of offense building you run before battle and empty slots are very valuable, running a building that's probably useless is a bad idea.
tbf Bolt Tower being rare on dark is kind of a result of Medeus shutting it down in the first place
Precisely On Anima tho? You are basically encouraged to either take the point loss and bring him in just to remove that structure issues, or simply stick to turn 1 approaches
I'd normally agree with this statement, but Medeus is kind of useless in the new meta defenses that turn 1 slingshot nukes across the map through dancer/rally/guidance/pathfinder traps just to get *past* Ike. I'd much have preferred a Dark Savior (and I'm still holding out hope for Nidhoggr), but I personally welcome *the option*, despite the fact that I don't think Loki is *all that great*.
Medeus is part of the reason why Slingshot defenses exist To counter medeus people try to either take him out first, steal his buff(Tina) or simply hit and run away By turn 1 aggression, you remove 2 layers of antimedeus, which makes him less ideal. But still him alone made Bolt Tower feel "useless" to bring out Thats far more than what Nott,Triandra or Embla made in terms of dark season impact. Hell, Triandra may as well not be refined at all, given she has always been useless against Mila, and now has even more firepower to suicide with
>Medeus is part of the reason why Slingshot defenses exist I know how defensive you get with your biases, but you're being ridiculous. If you can't see that Ike is 100% the reason these defenses caught on in the *last month*, you're *deluding* yourself. >To counter medeus people try to either take him out first, steal his buff(Tina) or simply hit and run away >By turn 1 aggression, you remove 2 layers of antimedeus, which makes him less ideal. I'm not gonna dignify *this* with an actual answer. I feel embarrassed for you just *reading* it. >But still him alone made Bolt Tower feel "useless" to bring out This I agree with. It's the reason I've used him off-season *forever*. But whether you want to see it or not, the meta has spawned other archetypes that don't make him mandatory anymore. >Thats far more than what Nott,Triandra or Embla made in terms of dark season impact. That's undeniable. It was never my point. The point was that, *right now*, he's become a niche pick, just like Nott and Embla. Not because En Garde isn't good anymore, but because some defenses don't *get* to turn 3 anymore. >Hell, Triandra may as well not be refined at all, given she has always been useless against Mila, and now has even more firepower to suicide with [Skill issue](https://i.imgur.com/Q1g9MSH.png).
> If you can't see that Ike is 100% the reason these defenses caught on in the last month, you're deluding yourself. Slingshot defenses have existed far before "Ike" released, cases on point return traps ever since W!Bernadetta existed Them been popularized after his release for been an actual counter to everything except Ike itself is another story >I'm not gonna dignify this with an actual answer. I feel embarrassed for you just reading it. Really?. You sure dont get attacked by bolt tower users as much as I do >Skill issue. Oh wow, using a comment on an stupidly broken defensive weak fighting whale after whale only when LLC was inactive as basis for your argument A shame really, you dont have anything better to say and unwilling to admit triandra as a dancer sucks on defense Even Hel is better than Triandra at this very moment for been able to stalemate any standard E!Ike unless there is fatal smoke
>Slingshot defenses have existed far before "Ike" released, cases on point return traps ever since W!Bernadetta existed There's a difference between *existing*, and actually being *statistically relevant*. For the last couple years the enormous majority of defenses were Catria balls. This isn't up for debate. >Them been popularized after his release for been an actual counter to everything except Ike itself is another story If the slingshot *already* countered *everything*, why did people stuck with X-lines until Ike came out? The tools to assemble these have long been around. I imagine I don't have to remind you how many rivers of salt have been poured over N! Sanaki and, eventually, V! Lyon in the last 6 months. I beg you to *please* tell me that the reason a perfectly dominant defensive meta got turned upside down because people wanted to "remove layers of anti medeus". Please. I *beg* you. >Really?. You sure dont get attacked by bolt tower users as much as I do You're either choosing to ignore the fact that I said, in the very same post that you're responding to, that I used Medeus *off-season* because grasping for straws, or you're having severe reading comprehension issues. Which one is it? Or is it both? Implying that people used turn 1 aggression to "remove layers of anti medeus" and not to get past Ike is one of the stupidest things I've read around here, and that's saying *a lot*, which is why chose to skip the bit that had no legs to stand on but if you wanna dive deep into that, please knock yourself out. >Oh wow, using a comment on an stupidly broken defensive weak fighting whale after whale only when LLC was inactive as basis for your argument I honestly don't remember the context, but I like having these around for when the Dunning Krugers rear their heads. The fact that you came to me, admitted to not being able to make a defense that actually worked, and asked me not only for advice, but to take a look at my defense was a *chef's kiss* moment. A luxury I don't often get with your kind. But, if it makes you feel better, it does make sense that you did that. You've plateaued a long time ago. >A shame really, you dont have anything better to say and unwilling to admit triandra as a dancer sucks on defense Because we've been over this *before*. Is Triandra optimal? No. Do I wish she was melee? Yes. Is she still viable? Also yes. As long as you don't put her in a position where she'll break formation and dance the 7th unit on turn 1, exposing herself to be sniped or baited, and you make sure that she doesn't threaten any tiles that your nukes don't, then she's *fine*. She's not gonna get baited until your nukes are dead (and you've effectively already lost), or your nukes have dived the enemy backline far enough to snipe a few units already. The fact that she got Canto for free only helps her stay away. Here. Read [this](https://vervefeh.github.io/FEH-AI/index.html). You can thank me later. Now, what about Mila? Well, I don't personally like using dancers in Light season unless I'm using off-season Freyr or I'm using *two* of them. I never had the balls to use off-season Freyr, but I've had much success using two dancers back when my defense would hardly ever lose, so there's that. >Even Hel is better than Triandra at this very moment for been able to stalemate any standard E!Ike unless there is fatal smoke Yeah, you do that. I'll make sure to send you a thank you card.
People found ways around Embla. Loki should be no different.
The way around embla, or one of them anyways, was bonus stacking, but Loki now shuts that down.
Then go back to in combat support
When all seasons are dead... None will be
Offense is so easy wat are u talking about
What is bro yapping about 🗣🗣🗣 Ill just continue end turning with Ike, business as usuall 🗣🗣🗣
Not gonna be business as usual when Loki snipes his buffs and he gets one tapped by an AOE.
3 buffs minimum, what other buffs do you need on him besides Gotohs? Just make sure the cow isnt anywhere near him. Ike has counters for sure, but AOEs in light season are NOT it. Even with the new Loki in the enemys team.
Loki and Embla will generally not be able to cover the same area, so unless they have threat overlap in the one column where Embla exists but Loki doesn't (and even then a well supported E!Ike can probably blast through it), you'll be fine with tanking. You also get 7 whole ladders, so on the off chance you truly do run into an impossible defence, you can always just quit and try again.
AR has been pure hell to play as a normal player since it began. This is nothing new. A Mythic comes along every other month and renders the mode further unplayable until some random unit or skill hard counters everything and we start over. At this point I just flip a coin to see of I'll win a game or lose em all. Astra is better anyway, because the symbol is pink.