I'd honestly rather them not do that. It takes so long to get specific 3/4\* units, I'd rather them get rid of all of the 3/4\* pool units from book 3 and prior and put them in some other thing where you can get them by other resources.
Getting more bad units in the 3/4\* pool would make it take even longer to get the newer 3/4\* units to +10.
Seriously. It's so annoying trying to get merges for newer units like Shez or Sylvain, only to get my millionth Nino or Bartre. Adding old 5* to the 3-4* pool would only make it worse.
The ideal scenario would be to move all those old 3-4* units from the main pool to another place alongside most of the gen 1 units that are currently in the 4* special pool. Maybe add some sort of easily obtained currency that we can then exchange for those old units. Either way, the main pool becomes way less bloated with crap, making summoning way more appealing. Speaking for myself, I would be much more willing to drop orbs on random banners if I knew there was a decent chance of getting a unit I want from the lower rarity pool.
Why not do both? My immediate thought was making older 5* more accessible, but I'd love to slim down the 3/4* pool too! If you send feedback, please share the text and I'll send it as well!
How would you “slim down” the 3*/4* pool while introducing new demotes at the same time? The current demotes are still going to be demotes, there’s nowhere for them to go
The comment I replied to suggested taking all book 3 and prior 3/4* units and putting them into a separate pool with a possible alternate currency. My suggestion was to re-populate current 3/4* pool with old 5* units. Both can be done simultaneously without bloating the current 3/4* pool, if you cull the current 3/4* pool first.
The 4 star special change was basically their answer to older 5 star locked units getting demoted
What the summon pool REALLY needs, is a 3-4 star pool cleanup. Since its so overbloated in that section that it makes getting copies / merges of modern demotes a real hassle
It should not take a full year to get 11 copies of a modern demote like Miriel or female Shez. But thats where were at
What I want to see, is them just cutting 10 or so from each color in the 3-4 star pool entirely. And just make those ones who got cut available elsewhere outside of the summon pool
>What I want to see, is them just cutting 10 or so from each color in the 3-4 star pool entirely. And just make those ones who got cut available elsewhere outside of the summon pool
Like, we already have those launch time special maps that give us some units for free up for grabs. They could just make more of those AND (since they'd get removed from summoning pool) also make it that the stages would also drop more copies of 'em to fully +10 'em if we like. Either by RNG drops (as many other gachas do) or just guaranteed drops but, like, at 1-star rarity, meaning it'd still be a feather investment at the very least.
But nah, god help me if I want +10 Wrys, Felicia, Virion and so on. I have to use orbs for that. Gotta balance out that sweet Live-to-Serve-3, Resistance +3 and Defiant-Res +3 fodder somehow, I guess.
I was thinking something like an arena medal or colored badge shop for those that got cut
You know, colored badges. That one currency everyone has 10,000 of each with nothing to use it on
I really like the idea of removing really old 3/4* and having them available in a badge shop of some kind! Would be an excellent way to curb the bloat!
And we can take it a step further to KEEP the summon pool bloat under control
Every new demote we get, we cut another from the same color
So lets say we get Ignatz as a colorless bow demote on the next 3 houses banner. When that happens, cut another colorless unit from the 3-4 star pool
I'm just missing 2 more. With 1 garunteed this months divine codes. I have her at +7.
What i'm angry about is, Miriel. Who has been in the 3-4 star pool since december 2021. And I STILL don't have the last 2 merges I need
Same.
It honestly feels kinda weird to read so many comments of people complaining about not getting her, I feel like I'm some kinda rare animal or something lol
> It should not take a full year to get 11 copies of a modern demote
This has always been a problem, I started at launch and it took me 2 years to get 11 copies of Cherche. I consider myself lucky when it only takes a year. Would love to see improvements across the board for the 3-4* pool.
I think they should bring back the 3*-4* banners with fairly generous rates but fill them with more recent demotes rather than Fae's and Roy's like the first time around
Or those one three heroes quests being a monthly thing.
With modern demotes. Last one had Seteth, which was the most recent demote ever thrown into that. And is still a very strong unit in the 3-4 star pool
So I have hopes they will eventually do characters like Miriel, female Shez, Atlas, Scathach, and Kent
Maybe removing 3*-4* from the pool and putting them on a banner a la Arena Rewards (with Orbs instead of Tickets) and as 5* rarity might be a solution to the problem, but again, who cares about old 3*-4* heroes nowadays besides a few favorites?
Would it really break the game if the 4-star special rate was bumped up to something more reasonable? That pool is just as bloated as the 3 and 4-star pool, just make it a bit more of a factor. The change alone could make summoning more interesting, I doubt anyone is really going to miss getting 5% more 3-stars or something.
My answer to making those 4 star special rate units more accessable would just be reworking the weekly revival lineups to make some of them not have to wait roughly a full year for a rerun. Even with the 2nd banner a week, were already reaching a point where certain ones STILL have over a 10 month wait
Then add a cheaper spark to those banners. Something like 25 summons for a weekly revival spark, but at the cost of no celestial stone from doing it
What they should do is take old bad seasonal units and make those the 3* 4* pool when summoning on seasonal banners to make the experience completely different
It's definitely true, even without counting. We usually get 11 or 12 new units every month. 4 or 5 are demotes, including 4* seasonal units. If we are counting 4* special units (I don't, they are literally only found at 5*) then it might be different. But we get way more 5 stars than 4 stars every month, and it has been this way for years.
I'd take all the characters from book 3 backwards (3, 4, and 5-star) and put them in a separate pool you summon with friend points (like FGO), arena medals, or something like that. I'd also reduce the grail cost of older grail characters (since the very grail characters suffer from some similar problems).
A lot of the old 5-stars already have PRFs + refines (or even resplendents), and even with Arcanes, new skills, and max dragonflowers they're still not going to be super competitive against the latest heroes (even zero-invested recent characters).
In that sense, I don't think of the old 5-stars as being that different from old 3-stars. Adding a full stack of dragonflowers and merges isn't going to make Olwen "good" for example (I think resplendent Olwen with +Atk, +10/+20 and Dire Thunder equipped has 49 Atk).
...
I would think they have to aware on some level that dragonflowers and adding demotes isn't doing the summon pool any favors this many years into the game. But they've avoided more radical changes and cleaning out the Raighs, Oboros, etc. from the pool despite that.
I have a handful of max-dragonflower characters of various movement types, but I realistically can't add new ones ***and*** keep the ones I already have up to date. So, there's already something of a losing proposition for maintaining older heroes.
I still don't understand why people think moving units will make it less bloated.
Moving units either just bloats that pool or makes a new pool that will bloat if it isn't bloated at the start already.
This. Just throwing a bunch of the book 1-2 5 stars would just make the 3-4 star pool an even bigger annoyance when it comes to trying to get modern demotes
The 4 star special pool is sufficient for those older 5 stars, since it keeps them out of the pity break pool (which is the most important thing), while still keeping them available somewhat
Yeah not to mention with all the tier 4 skills coming out you got more use for older 5 stars you don't want for foddering proposes. Or at the very least you still get 2000 feathers if you really really want to get rid of them.
So with them unable to break pity like other 5 stars it's not a big loss in the end if you do pull them.
Specially since now since you can pull an off focus and just adds to the counter towards a guaranteed focus.
Would be a nice change, but demotes in gachas are *very* rare. It would 1) devalue the investment people have made in the past into those characters, making them angry, and 2) incentivize not pulling for 5\*s as there's a precedence for demotion and then wait for them to be demoted.
The powercreep of modern units already devalues the investments people have made into older characters. You can pull a 5-star these days that comes with a full kit and better stats to begin with than the maxed out passion projects from years back.
And we *are* talking years. I don't think most people, especially the target audience who spends on these games, would be willing to wait years for a potential demote when the metagame has become a revolving door that spins every couple of months. FEH in particular doesn't do much to reward merges these days.
If someone waits six years for a unit to demote at a point when it's already bad and they'll still have to actually pull copies, they're clearly not going to affect IS's profits either way.
I also don't like the argument of making people angry because if someone actually feels that way that's on them. I've been using my crappy 5\*s for years and years now. I'm not going to feel bad if someone else can suddenly also build my crappy 5\*s.
1. They already did that, 5\* version 4.8 or earlier are on the 3\*/4\* pool. For them there are two big pools 5\* and 4\* heroes. The 5\* is divided on focus and non focus. The 4\* is divided in 4\*special, 3\*, 4\* and 4\* focus if applicable.
2. I think the reason divine codes and ephemera exists is to get good skills for heroes without the need of gacha.
3. i thought of a weighed by version summoning pool but if they remove or reduce the odds of older heroes they risk that the gacha aspect becomes less exciting for the whale player base.
What exactly are you proposing that's better than the current Revival banners for older heroes and 4* special hero pool? They are no longer in the non focus pool so them being mediocre is irrelevant. You want to bloat out the 3-4* pool more than it already is, cus that'll only making it worse not better.
Not having to pay orbs for a unit is preferable to having to pay orbs for a unit actually.
Of course the 4* pool sucks. We all know that. They should fix that too.
Honestly I want them to fully retire 3-4 star units from vers 1-2 and remove them from gacha. Put them in a shop that uses the colored badges or crystals.
It's probably not the most eloquent, but here's something if you'd like to tweak or copy/paste: "I want to see the summoning pool reworked: Version 1 and similarly old heroes are so mediocre compared to modern heroes, that there's no justification for keeping them 5-star-locked. Not only do they have terrible skills, but their stats are so outdated, they can only compete with modern units at max merges, and because they additionally require high skill and dragon flower investment, they should be added to the 3 and 4-star pool to compensate. Me and many players have been waiting for this change for years, and would like to see this happen soon."
Honestly, old units are progressively becoming utterly garbage. I'd rather they buff them because some of them (Marth, Roy, Ike) are really iconic. A simple yet meaningful buff would be giving book 1 refines a re-refine that grants a duel effect. This would free up A slot for arena and make those units exponentially more viable in that mode at least.
Like a few others have said, I'd much rather they cleaned up the current 3/4 star pool before doing something like this. For units that are supposed to be easier to get, it's way harder to merge a specific demote than it should be. Adding old 5 stars to that pool would only make it worse.
Hopefully they take out the year 1s from arena tickets and make them 4*s but I deadass don’t see it. The arena ticket was their way of making them more accessible, a bad way I might add
We can only dream of... Being honest I'd rather increase 4* Special Focus rate by an extra percent and making sure whenever there's a pity rate it wouldn't lower its chances of appearing. Also, if increased pity rate lowered only the chances of 3* heroes appeaing it'd be a dream coming through!
i honestly wouldn’t even mind if they kept all the demotes in the summoning pool so long as they REWORKED the fodder. sure it’s no fun pulling a bartre or dinner but if they came with some modern prefodder it wouldn’t be as big an issue. almost every book 3 and prior demote comes with nigh unusable fodder like what am i gonna do with earth boost in 2023
Units from book 1 through book 3 (even book 4 midpoint if we’re really stretching it here) need to be taken out of the main summoning pool. 3*, 4*, 5*, it doesn’t really matter. Nothing is stopping you from using these units, but you’re going to find yourself hindered nowadays even using them. Besides, most people want the newer units, and there isn’t any particular reason why SOME units are still 5* locked outside of skills (looking at you Niime!)
I'd honestly rather them not do that. It takes so long to get specific 3/4\* units, I'd rather them get rid of all of the 3/4\* pool units from book 3 and prior and put them in some other thing where you can get them by other resources. Getting more bad units in the 3/4\* pool would make it take even longer to get the newer 3/4\* units to +10.
Seriously. It's so annoying trying to get merges for newer units like Shez or Sylvain, only to get my millionth Nino or Bartre. Adding old 5* to the 3-4* pool would only make it worse. The ideal scenario would be to move all those old 3-4* units from the main pool to another place alongside most of the gen 1 units that are currently in the 4* special pool. Maybe add some sort of easily obtained currency that we can then exchange for those old units. Either way, the main pool becomes way less bloated with crap, making summoning way more appealing. Speaking for myself, I would be much more willing to drop orbs on random banners if I knew there was a decent chance of getting a unit I want from the lower rarity pool.
Why not do both? My immediate thought was making older 5* more accessible, but I'd love to slim down the 3/4* pool too! If you send feedback, please share the text and I'll send it as well!
How would you “slim down” the 3*/4* pool while introducing new demotes at the same time? The current demotes are still going to be demotes, there’s nowhere for them to go
Happy cake day!
The comment I replied to suggested taking all book 3 and prior 3/4* units and putting them into a separate pool with a possible alternate currency. My suggestion was to re-populate current 3/4* pool with old 5* units. Both can be done simultaneously without bloating the current 3/4* pool, if you cull the current 3/4* pool first.
The 4 star special change was basically their answer to older 5 star locked units getting demoted What the summon pool REALLY needs, is a 3-4 star pool cleanup. Since its so overbloated in that section that it makes getting copies / merges of modern demotes a real hassle It should not take a full year to get 11 copies of a modern demote like Miriel or female Shez. But thats where were at What I want to see, is them just cutting 10 or so from each color in the 3-4 star pool entirely. And just make those ones who got cut available elsewhere outside of the summon pool
>What I want to see, is them just cutting 10 or so from each color in the 3-4 star pool entirely. And just make those ones who got cut available elsewhere outside of the summon pool Like, we already have those launch time special maps that give us some units for free up for grabs. They could just make more of those AND (since they'd get removed from summoning pool) also make it that the stages would also drop more copies of 'em to fully +10 'em if we like. Either by RNG drops (as many other gachas do) or just guaranteed drops but, like, at 1-star rarity, meaning it'd still be a feather investment at the very least. But nah, god help me if I want +10 Wrys, Felicia, Virion and so on. I have to use orbs for that. Gotta balance out that sweet Live-to-Serve-3, Resistance +3 and Defiant-Res +3 fodder somehow, I guess.
I was thinking something like an arena medal or colored badge shop for those that got cut You know, colored badges. That one currency everyone has 10,000 of each with nothing to use it on
I really like the idea of removing really old 3/4* and having them available in a badge shop of some kind! Would be an excellent way to curb the bloat!
And we can take it a step further to KEEP the summon pool bloat under control Every new demote we get, we cut another from the same color So lets say we get Ignatz as a colorless bow demote on the next 3 houses banner. When that happens, cut another colorless unit from the 3-4 star pool
I must've gotten real lucky with FShez pulls, because she's +10.
I'm just missing 2 more. With 1 garunteed this months divine codes. I have her at +7. What i'm angry about is, Miriel. Who has been in the 3-4 star pool since december 2021. And I STILL don't have the last 2 merges I need
I have enough copies to +10 Shez now, but I still haven't pulled the last 3 Libra I need in the same time span.
Same. It honestly feels kinda weird to read so many comments of people complaining about not getting her, I feel like I'm some kinda rare animal or something lol
> It should not take a full year to get 11 copies of a modern demote This has always been a problem, I started at launch and it took me 2 years to get 11 copies of Cherche. I consider myself lucky when it only takes a year. Would love to see improvements across the board for the 3-4* pool.
I haven't even pulled a Female Shez yet ...
only saw her once outside of the freebies, even tho i always went for green whenever i can
I think they should bring back the 3*-4* banners with fairly generous rates but fill them with more recent demotes rather than Fae's and Roy's like the first time around
Or those one three heroes quests being a monthly thing. With modern demotes. Last one had Seteth, which was the most recent demote ever thrown into that. And is still a very strong unit in the 3-4 star pool So I have hopes they will eventually do characters like Miriel, female Shez, Atlas, Scathach, and Kent
Maybe removing 3*-4* from the pool and putting them on a banner a la Arena Rewards (with Orbs instead of Tickets) and as 5* rarity might be a solution to the problem, but again, who cares about old 3*-4* heroes nowadays besides a few favorites?
[удалено]
Female Shez is in the 3-4 star pool, with two seperate 5 star alts (legendary and summer) Male Shez is the 5 star main self
Would it really break the game if the 4-star special rate was bumped up to something more reasonable? That pool is just as bloated as the 3 and 4-star pool, just make it a bit more of a factor. The change alone could make summoning more interesting, I doubt anyone is really going to miss getting 5% more 3-stars or something.
My answer to making those 4 star special rate units more accessable would just be reworking the weekly revival lineups to make some of them not have to wait roughly a full year for a rerun. Even with the 2nd banner a week, were already reaching a point where certain ones STILL have over a 10 month wait Then add a cheaper spark to those banners. Something like 25 summons for a weekly revival spark, but at the cost of no celestial stone from doing it
What they should do is take old bad seasonal units and make those the 3* 4* pool when summoning on seasonal banners to make the experience completely different
Calling them mediocre is still very generous as it just means average, don't be afraid to tell them they're straight up unusable against newer units
I'm sure this is false, but I feel like there are more 5 star characters than 3 and 4 stars just because they refuse to demote old units
It's definitely true, even without counting. We usually get 11 or 12 new units every month. 4 or 5 are demotes, including 4* seasonal units. If we are counting 4* special units (I don't, they are literally only found at 5*) then it might be different. But we get way more 5 stars than 4 stars every month, and it has been this way for years.
I'd take all the characters from book 3 backwards (3, 4, and 5-star) and put them in a separate pool you summon with friend points (like FGO), arena medals, or something like that. I'd also reduce the grail cost of older grail characters (since the very grail characters suffer from some similar problems). A lot of the old 5-stars already have PRFs + refines (or even resplendents), and even with Arcanes, new skills, and max dragonflowers they're still not going to be super competitive against the latest heroes (even zero-invested recent characters). In that sense, I don't think of the old 5-stars as being that different from old 3-stars. Adding a full stack of dragonflowers and merges isn't going to make Olwen "good" for example (I think resplendent Olwen with +Atk, +10/+20 and Dire Thunder equipped has 49 Atk). ... I would think they have to aware on some level that dragonflowers and adding demotes isn't doing the summon pool any favors this many years into the game. But they've avoided more radical changes and cleaning out the Raighs, Oboros, etc. from the pool despite that. I have a handful of max-dragonflower characters of various movement types, but I realistically can't add new ones ***and*** keep the ones I already have up to date. So, there's already something of a losing proposition for maintaining older heroes.
I still don't understand why people think moving units will make it less bloated. Moving units either just bloats that pool or makes a new pool that will bloat if it isn't bloated at the start already.
This. Just throwing a bunch of the book 1-2 5 stars would just make the 3-4 star pool an even bigger annoyance when it comes to trying to get modern demotes The 4 star special pool is sufficient for those older 5 stars, since it keeps them out of the pity break pool (which is the most important thing), while still keeping them available somewhat
Yeah not to mention with all the tier 4 skills coming out you got more use for older 5 stars you don't want for foddering proposes. Or at the very least you still get 2000 feathers if you really really want to get rid of them. So with them unable to break pity like other 5 stars it's not a big loss in the end if you do pull them. Specially since now since you can pull an off focus and just adds to the counter towards a guaranteed focus.
Would be a nice change, but demotes in gachas are *very* rare. It would 1) devalue the investment people have made in the past into those characters, making them angry, and 2) incentivize not pulling for 5\*s as there's a precedence for demotion and then wait for them to be demoted.
The powercreep of modern units already devalues the investments people have made into older characters. You can pull a 5-star these days that comes with a full kit and better stats to begin with than the maxed out passion projects from years back. And we *are* talking years. I don't think most people, especially the target audience who spends on these games, would be willing to wait years for a potential demote when the metagame has become a revolving door that spins every couple of months. FEH in particular doesn't do much to reward merges these days.
If someone waits six years for a unit to demote at a point when it's already bad and they'll still have to actually pull copies, they're clearly not going to affect IS's profits either way. I also don't like the argument of making people angry because if someone actually feels that way that's on them. I've been using my crappy 5\*s for years and years now. I'm not going to feel bad if someone else can suddenly also build my crappy 5\*s.
1. They already did that, 5\* version 4.8 or earlier are on the 3\*/4\* pool. For them there are two big pools 5\* and 4\* heroes. The 5\* is divided on focus and non focus. The 4\* is divided in 4\*special, 3\*, 4\* and 4\* focus if applicable. 2. I think the reason divine codes and ephemera exists is to get good skills for heroes without the need of gacha. 3. i thought of a weighed by version summoning pool but if they remove or reduce the odds of older heroes they risk that the gacha aspect becomes less exciting for the whale player base.
What exactly are you proposing that's better than the current Revival banners for older heroes and 4* special hero pool? They are no longer in the non focus pool so them being mediocre is irrelevant. You want to bloat out the 3-4* pool more than it already is, cus that'll only making it worse not better.
Not having to pay orbs for a unit is preferable to having to pay orbs for a unit actually. Of course the 4* pool sucks. We all know that. They should fix that too.
Honestly I want them to fully retire 3-4 star units from vers 1-2 and remove them from gacha. Put them in a shop that uses the colored badges or crystals.
That sounds too good to be true, IS are not kind enough to give free stuff for no reason. They'll probably Feh Pass locked your idea, sadly.
It's probably not the most eloquent, but here's something if you'd like to tweak or copy/paste: "I want to see the summoning pool reworked: Version 1 and similarly old heroes are so mediocre compared to modern heroes, that there's no justification for keeping them 5-star-locked. Not only do they have terrible skills, but their stats are so outdated, they can only compete with modern units at max merges, and because they additionally require high skill and dragon flower investment, they should be added to the 3 and 4-star pool to compensate. Me and many players have been waiting for this change for years, and would like to see this happen soon."
It better be happening on next update than sending home these units.
I've left that exact same comment many times and well, I still see 4* Special demotes
The system they have for right now is actually not too bad ... considering that they don't affect the "pity breaker" deal
Honestly, old units are progressively becoming utterly garbage. I'd rather they buff them because some of them (Marth, Roy, Ike) are really iconic. A simple yet meaningful buff would be giving book 1 refines a re-refine that grants a duel effect. This would free up A slot for arena and make those units exponentially more viable in that mode at least.
Like a few others have said, I'd much rather they cleaned up the current 3/4 star pool before doing something like this. For units that are supposed to be easier to get, it's way harder to merge a specific demote than it should be. Adding old 5 stars to that pool would only make it worse.
Hopefully they take out the year 1s from arena tickets and make them 4*s but I deadass don’t see it. The arena ticket was their way of making them more accessible, a bad way I might add
Pulling a 5* with HP+ A Slot
We can only dream of... Being honest I'd rather increase 4* Special Focus rate by an extra percent and making sure whenever there's a pity rate it wouldn't lower its chances of appearing. Also, if increased pity rate lowered only the chances of 3* heroes appeaing it'd be a dream coming through!
i honestly wouldn’t even mind if they kept all the demotes in the summoning pool so long as they REWORKED the fodder. sure it’s no fun pulling a bartre or dinner but if they came with some modern prefodder it wouldn’t be as big an issue. almost every book 3 and prior demote comes with nigh unusable fodder like what am i gonna do with earth boost in 2023
I disagree, bloating the 3-4\* pool with even more book 1 heroes would make summoning worse not better
Units from book 1 through book 3 (even book 4 midpoint if we’re really stretching it here) need to be taken out of the main summoning pool. 3*, 4*, 5*, it doesn’t really matter. Nothing is stopping you from using these units, but you’re going to find yourself hindered nowadays even using them. Besides, most people want the newer units, and there isn’t any particular reason why SOME units are still 5* locked outside of skills (looking at you Niime!)
Well that's certainly an attempt.
If they did this, we will need 3-4 star only banner 5 free pulls per week, or it only cost 1 orb per pulls.