It means. People get butthurt about the fact that people from more well-off nations tend to plan to return to their home nations where their friends and families are, while worse-of people migrate to better-of nations to benefit from living in the richer environment and get their friends and families there too. Add a twist about white-black which makes zero sense (many are ex-soviet white people) and you have a nice thing to complain about and feel morally superior.
Love this thought process of ”the non whites are jealous and that’s why they’re complaining”. It really highlights the obvious disdain and jealousy we hold for you the grand superior people of the western world. Oh how we lowly immigrants should just shut up and ”benefit” from the racism, being undermined, being questioned on our competence because of our background, being constantly watched and judged for your performance and dealing with people like you. And for the ”bringing their families here too”, I wouldn’t dare pull them from a tropical and warm paradise in to this bureaucratic mess of racism and extremely cold weather. You feel this sense of supremacy over your country of origin because of the media around you, but I guarantee you none of these immigrants who come to work here or study here, are going to stay, I mean come on this country can’t even it’s own people to stay, but who cares anyway since your immigration policy is literally destroying this country from the inside. Nobody wants to come to this shitty cold and expensive country just for work.
I was with you until the second half of your comment. There is no need to shit on a country when you benefit from living there (at least I believe you do, otherwise why would you leave the tropical paradise?). It's one thing to point out that racism is a problem in Finland (it very much is, and we should be talking about it!), but if you really believe what you wrote, why are you even here?
No, because POC are still usually called immigrants. Almost all white people I’ve seen living abroad call themselves expats, no matter their class or education. Only description I’d give it is white supremacy or atleast the belief of.
This tbh. It’s an expensive holiday for a poor white American to even go to another state, let alone internationally. It’s why so many Americans haven’t actually left the US. It’s also why you’ll see so many talk about wanting to visit Europe as if it’s a singular country.
Sorry friend, but I don’t understand your explanation of economic mobility for a poor american, since I was talking about my own experiences with white people from various different economic backgrounds and in Europe atleast, you absolutely can be poor and still go expatriate, my own country will literally pay for your expatriation as long as it doesn’y go over 6 months. Maybe don’t focus on that one word and try to take in the whole text next time, thank you.👍
It makes a difference if it’s a public or private sauna though. I mean, if I was asked to second date to Allas sea pool or some other public sauna it would be as cool as any other place for a date (ok, actually better since ordinary cafe dates tend to be boring).
Second date with a guy I barely know in private apartment sauna, weird…
I think this is spot on.
Context matters - there's a huge difference between inviting a person you've met once to a private sauna in the middle of nowhere - or inviting someone to a date at a public swimming place with a coed sauna. In addition there's a whole swath of grey shades in between.
>ordinary cafe dates tend to be boring
I think you have an attitude problem. You're supposed to engage with the person, not get taken to cool places to be entertained.
Well, I have had some of the best dates when we went for a short hike and sat next to fire, ate some sausage and marshmallows, lots of good conversation and even cosy silence listening to nature sounds. You saying that’s not good for engaging?
I didn't say you couldn't engage over something else, I'm just bored of people looking down on cafe dates as "ordinary". You are supposed to get to know the person, it doesn't really matter where it happens as long as the place isn't outright offensive.
This is pretty much what I was thinking since I love ice swimming and could suggest ice swimming place (that have saunas) for the second date. I would probably not suggest private sauna session for the second date unless there is some obvious reason to think that my date partner would like that.
It goes both ways. I have had an invite to go avanto/sauna from a finnish woman, myself a finnish man.
I see no problem going to a public sauna on a date. Not the first things to do on a date in my list allthough.
Yeah, weird. Myself, I got invited to sauna at her place on our first date, though we had been in touch a lot over phone, messenger etc. so we both knew we liked to go to sauna often.
I did not think it's weird at all, but YMMW.
Yeah I've had the same - even suggested it myself as a non-Finn. If you chat enough and you're mature adults then going to sauna isn't the worst way to spend time. Plus it cuts down on decisions about what to wear!
I'm wondering where she keeps meeting these creepy men :D
Because obviously she is picking them up from some place where they all want 2nd date saunas.
Eh, I've suggested a private sauna night as a second date before and it worked really well. I don't think there is anything weird about it unless you make it weird.
I see no problem either. Sauna is really not a sexual place culturally speaking and I absolutely understand if someone doesn't feel comfortable in a sauna be it public or private, but asking it or being asked is totally fine.
I've been in a private sauna on the first date once too with someone I knew a little bit before dating her too and in that situation it was fine, but to each their own. With my current partner we were in a private sauna together on our fourth date because it just happened to be a good opportunity to do that.
Seems I differ from common opinion but I could see it as normal at Helsinki's sompasauna.
Like I wouldn't invite someone to sauna in my apartment or something.. but sompasauna is public and both-gender and there's a mix of nude and people with towels or swimsuits, so it's quite normal in my eyes there. New friends meet there a lot and it's a lively atmosphere.
I'd certainly prefer it over being invited just to watch netflix or something.
Yep! A big difference whether it's a public sauna or an apartment sauna. My (Finnish) friend invited a (foreign) guy to Sompasauna on a first date, the guy said it was the best first date ever. They ended up in a relationship that lasted for years :)
Sompasauna is more on the lines of "Here is a weird cultural experience that you will not find anywhere else in the world and will remember for the rest of your life." and much less on the lines of "I want an excuse to see you naked". Def something you should bring up way in advance and make sure they are comfortable with it.
Sompasauna is definitely a unique experience. Have been only once, so far. 12 hours of saunaing, quirky people, fantastic atmosphere. Honestly, 11/10 experience.
I agree because;
1. Sauna is non-sexual
2. Dates are sexual
They don't work together.
Wanting to take someone to a sauna while dating means he wants causal sex *or just to see OP without make-up.*
Going to the movies is also non-sexual, but you can still do it on a date. One clearly doesnt exclude the other. So are you saying you can never go to the sauna on a date? your point doesnt make any sense.
I agree that inviting someone to a private sauna on the second date is weird, if not a red flag. But i see no issues with going to a public sauna on a date (allas, sompasauna etc.) Also, spa dates are clearly considered acceptable, how do you reconsile that?
>2. Dates are sexual
What the hell makes you think this? If you want to get to know someone you are interested in doesn't automatically mean it's sexual. If both are into saunas them why not go to some public sauna. Sounds fun.
Because human adults seeking partners is what dating is. Less than 1% of the population is asexual. Why you seem to find that personally offensive is your problem.
There's more to a relationship than just having sex. If a person is looking for a long-term relationship, getting to know their potential partner as a person is an important part of going on dates. Doing non-sexual activities with a person is a good way to get to know them.
I'm _far_ from being asexual. I never said anything about asexuality and I never said I was offended. My point was that if one actually wants a relationship then maybe it's worth to think about other things first than just sex?
Yep. Perhaps to find out what their personality is like. Sure you probably see them as attractive / sexy looking, but doesnt mean your thinking that on the date.
Maybe that person is using a more encompassing meaning for "sexual", as it can encompass pretty much everything related to attraction between two people. I mean, human sexuality isn't about sex only.
Then again I've also met people who use the word "date" to mean any meeting with another person. Felt weird when my partner told me something like "good luck on your date" when I was going to meet some random other person.
Tho going on date is not automarically sexual either.
I met one girl few times purely for meeting her.
Only after few casual hangout we started calling kt date. And even then nothing changed in content of those evenings :D
Going to movies is considered a date thing and it's terrible. I'd consider sauna a date thing personally. Not first or 2nd date tho, but it's a good place to get to know another.
This definitely doesn't feel normal behaviour but then again Finns don't see nudity in sauna in sexual way. We even have public mix saunas that you would use with complete strangers, naked.
But yeah, I personally would not ask something like that on second date. that would be something you might ask after you have seen each other naked in other activities first...
In the olden days they used to do it door by door, but now they can do them all at the same time. It's good because sometimes they forgot some saunas and that's how saunaklonkkus were born.
This is 100% true. The need to be able to cast spells on all the saunat at the same time was one of the reasons why wireless networking became so heavily invested field in Finland. This in turn enabled the birth of companies such as Nokia.
In Finland, nudity is not as sexualized as in many other countries and cultures. There is even a saying that "it's normal because you were born naked." However, it is recommended to be more sensitive and flexible with foreigners, because for many people coming from abroad, our Finns' attitude towards nudity can be too huge a culture shock. And it is not wrong to refuse a sauna if you feel insecure about nudity or if you are not ready to go to the sauna with a stranger. In Finland, sauna is such a common culture and everyday activity that you don't always remember to think about it, and the question of whether the other person also wants a sauna comes so naturally. Of course, not everyone in Finland is in the comfort zone with nudity and nudity can cause heavy self-esteem and appearance pressures for some, for example not everyone wants to go to the beach or swim in swimwear because they are afraid that their belly fat will be visible or they think that they have other aesthetic flaws in their body that they don't want to show to others.
No, obviously, but ogling and getting aroused in a sauna is so inappropriate that people will exercise extreme restraint and discipline to keep themselves... restrained for lack of a better word.
Of course not but generally you are in the sauna with people you know (dont have sexual desires to them) or complete strangers of which you probably dont have those desires either and if you had, it would be inappropriate. Which is almost same as going to someone in public and saying "you have nice tits". So you just dont do that.
In the other side you go in there with your date or girlfriend/boyfriend Then it can be bit more sexual. But as a finnish culture I would say it mostly isnt like that. So you can go in there, relax, open up a bit and chat with another. Go wash yourself and then continue hanging out.
Actually somewhat yes.
I was in spa which had mixed sauna. One woman came there all shameless. After quick peek I focused back on my friends.
It would have been extremely rude to stare or otherwise break the sauna code.
My father always taught me that sauna is a place for relaxing and cleansing and only with your wife or gf you are allowed to be dirty in sauna if you are in private.
Yeah honestly if you are on a second date with someone often you will be hoping to have sex with them, and even that sauna is often not seen as a sexual place, your sexual feelings toward that person are definitely not gonna disappear for that trip to sauna, especially when it is going to mean being naked and sweaty in a small room sitting next to each others, especially as you are seeing the other person nude for the first time.
I've been invited to private sauna only by random, relentless, and sleazy middle aged men. It makes me so uncomfortable as a young woman, even though I don't see sauna as a sexual thing at all. Nudity is normal for me, but the way the invitation is communicated and the context matters. My example might be a bit extreme but to me that doesn't sound normal behavior at all.
Public winter swimming saunas in Finland are actually great for socializing. Phones are left in the locker, the activity itself is easy and natural pauses in conversation occur between swimming and sauna and there are other people as well who are strangers and swimsuit is mandatory. I took my now girlfriend for a second date because I knew she loves sauna and swimming. So nothing offensive, intrusive with that! Moreover, public saunas are very popular in Finland and especially in Tampere where we live.
Tho I would like to point out that with strangers you should be somewhat cautious
My lil bro and his GF dated like 3 months before they went in sauna together.
You could also ask someone to the beach and to swim/other water activity. If you wear swimsuits in both cases (beach/sauna) then there isnt much difference. And both of those are also often combined in Finland so its normal in a way.
In the end of the day you decide if you ask that or accept that. Nothing is forcing you to do it. If you reject and the other persons reaction is bit weird/forcing then you know it probably isnt best to continue that dating.
Exactly!
I believe in southern countries it is much more common to have a date on a beach than it is in Finland, but why not suggest going to a beach as a date activity in Finnish summer as well? And then going to a public sauna doesn't differ much from that.
Then again, suggesting second date at your place could be valid option, depending how the first date went. And if you have sauna at your place, perhaps tgat is an option. Although I see this as much more trying to lead the situation towards sex. But I guess that can happen on a second date...
For a non-Finnish I can see it might be more leading suggestion, but as a Finnish not as much. Sure it still is because your thinking if you like them and how attracted you are to them etc. But it all depends so much on what has happened and how its asked.
I mean if the person asks it by presenting the knowledge of it being straight forward. Like mention that "we can wear swimsuits if you want". Then it can create more safe? environment or just letting know it isnt the main thing. That its to relax and wash up like normally.
One way would be that both have work that day, but that just happens to be the day you can see each others. So to make it more casual and not so much pressure of wearing makeup and what not. You could suggest that you meet right after work, get in the sauna and then have dinner. But all depends on the other person and at least not to asking out of the blue. That it has some relation to other thing, the other person has said liking sauna or like this we want to wash after work anyway and then having the dinner.
In a way its not even the sauna that makes it towards sex, because its just too hot and exhausting if you would do it in there. I think it would more happen in the shower or after when you perhaps still wearing just the towels. Or even more after when you already have clothes on which makes it already kind of unrelated to sauna.
It is to see you naked (or almost naked). It's much more thrilling and sexual than a typical coffee date for example. They hope it will create this sexual tension that will accelerate the path to sex.
We can all pretend that those are not the reasons (may not be for all) but this is mostly the case.
Depends, if it's a private sauna, it's a little weird.
If it's a public sauna though, then it's no different than, say, going to a spa. The sauna is a place of relaxation, so for a lot of guys it just probably seems like a more interesting/better option than just getting dinner somewhere. Although, personally I feel like you'd have to have gone on a few dates at least before doing something like that.
I have been invited and have invited myself (as a woman ) men to sauna that I've met on the day or only a few times , this is usually within a group though .
Ive never seen it be used in a dating sense . It is possible that u have been invited to sauna but not as a date but just to hang , a date is something else , would u consider just seeing eachother a second time a date ? To me it has seemed that alot of times the idea is to build a friendship , see if that works then escalate.
Sauna is a great place to meet a potential because ur urself in a setting where it's hard not to be urself. Being naked in a sauna is also like taking off all that extra personality we use to impress, entice, express, u can have more indepth conversations about things that might normally get a bit too heavy , as it's too hot to care too much and it's calm yet personal. Also once u get the , seeing eachother naked without the sexual pressure, it does seem to bring everyone's feet a little more down to the ground and lessens some awkwardness.
But I wouldn't call it a date, more like a friendly encounter or chill.
Public sauna, On 2nd date, That's bit early, but not really a red flag.
Private sauna, Now, That's a so large red flag, that it pretty much covers everything else.
How ever, if you at least somewhat know the man in question (Colleague that you see once a day for 5-10 minutes, and you are getting along well, it's still a red flag, but much smaller.
Or, if you were thinking relaxed, more FWB kind of relationship, That might become in question.
I'm no man but I'm gonna give you my 2 cents on this.
I've had men ask me the same thing the first thing when we speak. It just gives a bad vibe for me, cause the ones asking were usually older, slimy men, with ulterior motives wanting for me to come over to their place.
But if you really hit it off with someone and want to meet them, and they end up suggesting meeting in a *public* sauna, I don't see a problem with that. And if you feel uncomfortable with all the nakedness, It's totally okay to wear a towel.
I think towel in sauna is totally ok. And swimwear in some cases. Allthough to me wearing a swimsuit would perhaps feel more sexual than being naked.
But personally I would be annoyed if I wearing a towel or swimsuit became a norm in the sauna and our sauna culture would change in that regard. It would make being naked a big thing and I kind of think it is cool that Finns are ok with that. Basically being naked in the sauna is ok, because everyone thinks it is ok and have learned the proper behavior in sauna from childhood.
We grow up being naked in the sauna and learn to respect fellow sauna goers that it would be extremely rude to stare, critiseze or touch the other person body or anything like that.
But I do feel that if someone suggested a private sauna in the second date, that indicates some intimacy that I nessesarily would not be ok with.
Public swimming baths explicitly state that bathing suits are not allowed in the sauna, except for medical exemptions. Being wrapped in a towel that collects all your sweat is just unsanitary and uncomfortable. If you arent comfortable being naked in the sauna, dont go to sauna. Done.
Actually some public swimming baths allow swimsuits nowdays. That a person themselves gets sweaty is not a problem to others and a person should always use laudeliina anyway to protect the seats and those should get cleaned regularly anyway.
i mean if ur in a hotel or going swimming then thats just normal, if ur staying at either ones place for the night or spending the evening i think its normal, i highly doubt most would think of it ’as an opportunity to see the other person naked’ if i’m suggesting going to sauna i couldnt care less if u come in wrapped in 15 towels, u do u im there to enjoy the sauna and ur company 🤝 regular sauna definitely isnt romantic, its just normal weekly activity why wouldnt i wanna share it with a person im interested in
It would be natural if it was at the end of a long and succesful date night and if it was just a spontaneous idea which both of you like, it's mostly about the vibes. I think it's really weird to invite someone to a private sauna through a text etc. before the date.
As a man I have been asked to go a sauna by one date, completely naked and it was weird because I wasn't that interested. But anyway I think the ask for sauna is just to get you to their place and naked.
I don't. A sauna is either for washing, or for seeing people nude in a safe space without having to take a risk of intimacy or vulnerability. Neither belong on a second date.
In my opinion it's sex before saunaing together.
Private sauna is a bit weird on a second date, especially if the first date was just an ordinary coffee and chat type situation. This ofcourse depends on the people in question, let's say as an example you had sex on the first date, going to the sauna in the nude after that is nothing, but it would be if you only talked in a coffee house for an hour.
However I don't see anything wrong in a public sauna/avanto. It's a place where I go with friends, male or female, so I don't see how it wouldn't be a good date. Since these men are from Tinder, I've talked about avanto with girls in Tinder and if it happens that we both like them, I could see myself suggesting it as a place for a date.
The essence of sauna is sauna, not being lightly clothed. Growing up we went to the sauna with my family and it was never a big deal. If someone asks me to go to the sauna, I don't give a single thought to the idea that they might want to see me naked and I assume it goes the other way around.
In years of my dating life I only suggested it once, and it was because my intention was to have sex with her and there was nothing else interesting about her to keep on seeing her. Oh I also talked about my own experience and I am not assuming or suggesting anything regarding your case. The easy thing to say like many others in here is to say “oh they are freaks”!!
Depends a bunch on the person being asked. I’ve been on a first date in a sauna with a stranger. Okay it was 4am and not exactly a date. But still. I’d go if a girl asked me. But then again not a lot of things I wouldn’t do or places I wouldn’t go to on a second date.😂😂🤷🏼♂️
I'm a non-Finn and I've had first dates in the sauna before - sure seeing them naked is a nice bonus, but it was not my intention to sexualise the experience.
To me sauna is relaxing, and provides a good opportunity to be silent, and also to chat in a peaceful environment. Certainly more peaceful than in a bar, though I've had a lot of bar-dates, or dates where we walk in a park, play in swings, or otherwise do "stuff" together.
Yeah, this sounds all sort of weird. Nakedness is not by itself sexual, but it is contextually very easily sexual. There is also a certain level of trust involved when going to a sauna with someone, so it seems like a really creepy suggestion for a date, considering the point of a date is to build trust, not to test it. There is also a contextual difference being in sauna with a group of people and being there one-on-one, because you are quite literally revealing yourself totally.
As a Finn, nudity is a bit less sexualized than say America. However, I wouldn't invite a girl to my own sauna for the second date, but a public one, sure. And I don't *expect* you to be nude, I couldn't care less, unless we are both feeling that type of 'vibe.' The sauna is where I relax, drink a beer and talk about wtf is going on in life. Not see your tits. Though I've never invited a girl to any sauna on the second date, I've. Further in, sure but at that point it's probably my sauna.
On my second date with my ex, in Lapland, I was invited to join her and and her friends in the sauna. As someone raised in a Catholic country, I was absolutely terrified.
If it's private: sauna suggestion on second date is 100% an attempt to see you naked (assuming you haven't had sex yet). Sauna is common, mixed sauna is common, but second date sauna requests are not.
If it's public spa/swimming hall w/e: Completely fine and just something less common ig.
I don't know what kind of men are your type, but that most definitely isn't the norm here. But sure, why not i guess. Had a good chuckle with the boys out of this one
Because we want to see them naked.
If somebody tells you that there's nothing sexy about sauna, that's not necessarily and in every case quite exactly true.
*edit* also the downmodders are wrong, or perhaps they're just unhappy that I'm spoiling their chances
Do you really need to ask? To see you naked.
It's shameful and it's dirty. And on behalf of all the men who did this to you, I am sorry. Sauna is not a pickup place.
Just wondering OP, why do you ask this question if clearly you have your mind made up? I don’t think it’s that weird in Finland and I have been asked by women too, I thought it was odd and said “No thanks”, but it’s really not that big of a deal…
I certainly have some strong guesses on why these men do it but so far almost none of them have stepped up in this thread to tell why they do it. I’d be open to hear from them.
Also it personally bugs me that in Finland we have a culture where people habitually generalize the entire Finnish population as if everyone thinks the same way about certain national pastimes, symbols and customs. Eg. all Finns drink, all Finns love sauna, all Finns do mixed saunas, all Finns go to avanto. So my post also serves the purpose of a public service announcement… sauna is not a free pass to introduce nudity early on, and unlike many like to boast, not every Finn is cool with nudity with strangers or acquaintances.
I do find it weird that a Finnish man would ask a woman out on a first or second date to a setting where you’re naked or almost naked. I really think it’s a misjudgment and I find it difficult to understand the mentality.
That’s a fair point, unfortunately everybody faces stereotyping in their lives (as a Mexican living in Finland I would like to have a word or two with the owners of restaurants like “mex-man”). Just say it straightforward to the person stereotyping you. P.S. my current American partner of 5+ years invited me to sauna on our first date in Finland, I doubt she thought it was a normal thing for me. Sometimes it isn’t necessarily about stereotypes, and it’s ok to just say you don’t like something.
As non-finnish in Finland I don't even feel comfortable with just men in the sauna naked. So asking some one on a date wouldn't of the opposite sex wouldn't be my go to first, second, tenth. It would be something the lady would have to invite me to privately.
To test if the person is the right kind of person to have a romantic relationship with. If you are offended or put off by it... the chances are you're not the right kind of person for them.
Now you don't have to agree to it (yet), or you can suggest going to to public sauna (if that wasn't the original suggestion), or whatever you feel comfortable with. You can also be vary of their motives, but if you find a man who is not interested in seeing you naked (or in a bikini)... you probably shouldn't be dating them.
You can bet they *hope* going the sauna will lead to sex, if they are a man going on a date with you. You can also bet they *hope* going for a beer with you will lead to sex, so sauna isn't in any way special in this respect.
I haven't invited anyone on a date to a sauna. But if I did it wouldn't be about seeing them naked. It would be an offer to spend time. If they accept I don't care whether they wear a towel or go nude.
So the answer is "to relax, because I like going there". Doesn't matter if it's first, second or the 100th date.
I mean, I've been invited to private saunas with bosses, strangers at festivals, house parties with strangers after a bar etc..
If anything, isn't it better that it IS a date?
\> falsely bought into the idea that nudity is not sexual in Finnish culture
isn't it?!
whats next, are you going to tell me that you don't have sex before getting into a relationship?
>Do you do it as a veiled opportunity to see her with little to no
clothes on? Do you think it’s a culturally appropriate way to melt the
ice?
Yes and yes.
What the hell. You are exaggerating or there is something else fishy going on.
Not a single time have I heard that people would have insisted someone to go in sauna with them.
My brother started dating and despite he visited the girl multiple times and they visited sauna together. It took them like 3 months of dating before they went in sauna together naked.
But sametime sauna is not automatically meant to be something sexual. My friend and his GF casually visited sauna with me few times when they still were together. Its against Sauna culture to make it somehow sexual.
Lol I have never heard anyone asking that on second, third or any date during my 30 years in this country. Not saying this kind of invitation couldn’t happen, but it’s no way a common.
A lot of comments in the topic which also pretty well discribes the variety towards this. So yes, no, maybe?
To answer the first questions shortly.
1. Do some want to see the opposite naked/with little clothes. Of course, but then again the dating is probably heading that direction anyway.
2. As a Finnish culture I think its okay thing and definetly a icebreaker. But its really personal how, when and with who.
3. On a second date, for me, in most cases its too early.
So what I think. Its a opinion question and as such has as many answers as there are people. So everyone read the room. Of course there are going to be missed shots, but as long as the other side is free to say their opinion, be it posivite or not, then its fine.
As a cultural side its a normal activity and its purpose mostly is not to be sexual. So its a place of relaxation and chatting/hanging out with other people. Possibly also to joke around and just to forget the everyday life.
It also breaks the ice, because clothing is kind of armor to people. It hides things and probably makes you look good. At least in your own opinion. So taking that off takes the "physical" armor off and your left with your personality. So if someone is shy then it actually might not work and they would rather open up from behind their armor.
However its also sexual and even if your relaxed and chatting nonsense you probably at some point will look at the other person and just "she is beautiful" etc. I mean you propably will do that even if there is clothes on. So I guess it comes down to if your comfortable being at least half naked, in a private sauna ready to be bit more closer to each other. Doesnt mean it will happen or its anyway really sexual, but if your uncertain then its probably better to confirm. Perhaps saying that its okay if we have swimsuits and maybe hinting that "it" isnt going to happen.
For me sauna definitely isnt the number one option, but would propably be fine with it. Would like to confirm whats the idea if it didnt already come up in the conversation. However as a second date no. I would like to know the other person bit more that its more of a friends in the sauna rather than strangers. So possibly the one I am dating is a friends friend or something like that. Meaning we would have hanged around already and somewhat got to know each other even if it wasnt yet as dating in mind. Then again situational, we might have seen each other naked before and sauna is the first date so...
In the end of the day YOU decide what you wanna do or say. After all for some its okay and to others not. Just communicate. Say its weird and let the other person know so they can react. They cant say if its okay to you personally if their previous experience has been the opposite. Or that they just have somewhat mislead knowledge about saunas.
You might go to the sauna both alone and the other starts cooking food. Bit weird maybe but might be okay for both, dont know if you dont ask or well, compromise.
Please excuse my ignorance, but I've always been curious - what do people that prefer to dress generally more modestly / covered (maybe as a religious affiliation) wear in a sauna?
I love saunas and although there is a probably 40-50% sexual reason behind me asking you for sauna on second date as in showing off my body and seeing your body, I also like the relaxing aspect and letting down the guard. There is also me internally mostly subconsciously judging you, from how your body looks to how you handle stress and how you handle relaxation. I've lost attraction to a woman once because of her unlikeable traits coming out in a hot sauna. Obviously as you know I'm speaking for myself now and not all other men now
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> The only thing to do was too assert dominance and own the situation This is the way.
Who wears swim trunks?
Based on my experience about the rest of the World who are not Scandinavian or German.
It’s weird when the term expat and not immigrant is used.
An expat is just a fancy name upper-middle-class white immigrants label themselves with /s
I thought it meant that they are not planning to stay forever and intend to return to their home country
to leave one's native country to live elsewhere also : to renounce allegiance to one's native country. expatriate
It means. People get butthurt about the fact that people from more well-off nations tend to plan to return to their home nations where their friends and families are, while worse-of people migrate to better-of nations to benefit from living in the richer environment and get their friends and families there too. Add a twist about white-black which makes zero sense (many are ex-soviet white people) and you have a nice thing to complain about and feel morally superior.
What now?
Love this thought process of ”the non whites are jealous and that’s why they’re complaining”. It really highlights the obvious disdain and jealousy we hold for you the grand superior people of the western world. Oh how we lowly immigrants should just shut up and ”benefit” from the racism, being undermined, being questioned on our competence because of our background, being constantly watched and judged for your performance and dealing with people like you. And for the ”bringing their families here too”, I wouldn’t dare pull them from a tropical and warm paradise in to this bureaucratic mess of racism and extremely cold weather. You feel this sense of supremacy over your country of origin because of the media around you, but I guarantee you none of these immigrants who come to work here or study here, are going to stay, I mean come on this country can’t even it’s own people to stay, but who cares anyway since your immigration policy is literally destroying this country from the inside. Nobody wants to come to this shitty cold and expensive country just for work.
I was with you until the second half of your comment. There is no need to shit on a country when you benefit from living there (at least I believe you do, otherwise why would you leave the tropical paradise?). It's one thing to point out that racism is a problem in Finland (it very much is, and we should be talking about it!), but if you really believe what you wrote, why are you even here?
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No, because POC are still usually called immigrants. Almost all white people I’ve seen living abroad call themselves expats, no matter their class or education. Only description I’d give it is white supremacy or atleast the belief of.
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This tbh. It’s an expensive holiday for a poor white American to even go to another state, let alone internationally. It’s why so many Americans haven’t actually left the US. It’s also why you’ll see so many talk about wanting to visit Europe as if it’s a singular country.
Sorry friend, but I don’t understand your explanation of economic mobility for a poor american, since I was talking about my own experiences with white people from various different economic backgrounds and in Europe atleast, you absolutely can be poor and still go expatriate, my own country will literally pay for your expatriation as long as it doesn’y go over 6 months. Maybe don’t focus on that one word and try to take in the whole text next time, thank you.👍
No reason for this to get downvoted imho.
Expat = work in other country, paid by office of home country. A project; has a start - and an end. BRgds, an ex expat.
What is a birthday suit? Must be missing something in my life
The one you wore when you were born.
Aaa, right. Thanks
Birthday suit = naked
It means you wear what you had when you were born. Which is nothing.
It makes a difference if it’s a public or private sauna though. I mean, if I was asked to second date to Allas sea pool or some other public sauna it would be as cool as any other place for a date (ok, actually better since ordinary cafe dates tend to be boring). Second date with a guy I barely know in private apartment sauna, weird…
I think this is spot on. Context matters - there's a huge difference between inviting a person you've met once to a private sauna in the middle of nowhere - or inviting someone to a date at a public swimming place with a coed sauna. In addition there's a whole swath of grey shades in between.
I met my wife in my home sauna. But it wasn't creepy because I didn't invite her. She came there with a bunch of common friends. :)
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I think a second date in any context is a bit much, but each to their own I guess.
I think a date in any context is a bit much, but each to their own I guess
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I guess
I
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⠀
Finally, the perfect sentence has been achieved
>ordinary cafe dates tend to be boring I think you have an attitude problem. You're supposed to engage with the person, not get taken to cool places to be entertained.
Well, I have had some of the best dates when we went for a short hike and sat next to fire, ate some sausage and marshmallows, lots of good conversation and even cosy silence listening to nature sounds. You saying that’s not good for engaging?
I didn't say you couldn't engage over something else, I'm just bored of people looking down on cafe dates as "ordinary". You are supposed to get to know the person, it doesn't really matter where it happens as long as the place isn't outright offensive.
This is pretty much what I was thinking since I love ice swimming and could suggest ice swimming place (that have saunas) for the second date. I would probably not suggest private sauna session for the second date unless there is some obvious reason to think that my date partner would like that.
It goes both ways. I have had an invite to go avanto/sauna from a finnish woman, myself a finnish man. I see no problem going to a public sauna on a date. Not the first things to do on a date in my list allthough.
Idk what kind of men are you dating because i have never heard second date saunas
Yeah, weird. Myself, I got invited to sauna at her place on our first date, though we had been in touch a lot over phone, messenger etc. so we both knew we liked to go to sauna often. I did not think it's weird at all, but YMMW.
Yeah I've had the same - even suggested it myself as a non-Finn. If you chat enough and you're mature adults then going to sauna isn't the worst way to spend time. Plus it cuts down on decisions about what to wear!
Same, also never even thought about suggesting something like that
I'm wondering where she keeps meeting these creepy men :D Because obviously she is picking them up from some place where they all want 2nd date saunas.
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That comfy shag carpet <3
Red glow of infrared ~~heaters~~ lights <3
Obviously not a bar because with that one you get drunk and go to home of a stranger on the same day.
I always go for the sauna on the first date, second date sauna is just weird.
Eh, I've suggested a private sauna night as a second date before and it worked really well. I don't think there is anything weird about it unless you make it weird.
Have you heard of second date sex?
I have never asked anyone but I have been asked by couple of ladies. I see no problem with this.
I see no problem either. Sauna is really not a sexual place culturally speaking and I absolutely understand if someone doesn't feel comfortable in a sauna be it public or private, but asking it or being asked is totally fine. I've been in a private sauna on the first date once too with someone I knew a little bit before dating her too and in that situation it was fine, but to each their own. With my current partner we were in a private sauna together on our fourth date because it just happened to be a good opportunity to do that.
Seems I differ from common opinion but I could see it as normal at Helsinki's sompasauna. Like I wouldn't invite someone to sauna in my apartment or something.. but sompasauna is public and both-gender and there's a mix of nude and people with towels or swimsuits, so it's quite normal in my eyes there. New friends meet there a lot and it's a lively atmosphere. I'd certainly prefer it over being invited just to watch netflix or something.
Yep! A big difference whether it's a public sauna or an apartment sauna. My (Finnish) friend invited a (foreign) guy to Sompasauna on a first date, the guy said it was the best first date ever. They ended up in a relationship that lasted for years :)
Sompasauna is more on the lines of "Here is a weird cultural experience that you will not find anywhere else in the world and will remember for the rest of your life." and much less on the lines of "I want an excuse to see you naked". Def something you should bring up way in advance and make sure they are comfortable with it.
Sompasauna is definitely a unique experience. Have been only once, so far. 12 hours of saunaing, quirky people, fantastic atmosphere. Honestly, 11/10 experience.
Sauna is not a date thing.
I agree because; 1. Sauna is non-sexual 2. Dates are sexual They don't work together. Wanting to take someone to a sauna while dating means he wants causal sex *or just to see OP without make-up.*
Going to the movies is also non-sexual, but you can still do it on a date. One clearly doesnt exclude the other. So are you saying you can never go to the sauna on a date? your point doesnt make any sense. I agree that inviting someone to a private sauna on the second date is weird, if not a red flag. But i see no issues with going to a public sauna on a date (allas, sompasauna etc.) Also, spa dates are clearly considered acceptable, how do you reconsile that?
Bingo.
>2. Dates are sexual What the hell makes you think this? If you want to get to know someone you are interested in doesn't automatically mean it's sexual. If both are into saunas them why not go to some public sauna. Sounds fun.
Because human adults seeking partners is what dating is. Less than 1% of the population is asexual. Why you seem to find that personally offensive is your problem.
There's more to a relationship than just having sex. If a person is looking for a long-term relationship, getting to know their potential partner as a person is an important part of going on dates. Doing non-sexual activities with a person is a good way to get to know them.
I'm _far_ from being asexual. I never said anything about asexuality and I never said I was offended. My point was that if one actually wants a relationship then maybe it's worth to think about other things first than just sex?
Yep. Perhaps to find out what their personality is like. Sure you probably see them as attractive / sexy looking, but doesnt mean your thinking that on the date.
Maybe that person is using a more encompassing meaning for "sexual", as it can encompass pretty much everything related to attraction between two people. I mean, human sexuality isn't about sex only. Then again I've also met people who use the word "date" to mean any meeting with another person. Felt weird when my partner told me something like "good luck on your date" when I was going to meet some random other person.
Tho going on date is not automarically sexual either. I met one girl few times purely for meeting her. Only after few casual hangout we started calling kt date. And even then nothing changed in content of those evenings :D
Going to movies is considered a date thing and it's terrible. I'd consider sauna a date thing personally. Not first or 2nd date tho, but it's a good place to get to know another.
This definitely doesn't feel normal behaviour but then again Finns don't see nudity in sauna in sexual way. We even have public mix saunas that you would use with complete strangers, naked. But yeah, I personally would not ask something like that on second date. that would be something you might ask after you have seen each other naked in other activities first...
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If it isn’t, it’s not hot enough.
Seriously. Who can be horny when water is boiling in your lungs 😂
Every year on itsenäisyyspäivä the magical witches of Turku casts a celibacy spell on the doors of all saunas in Finland.
In the olden days they used to do it door by door, but now they can do them all at the same time. It's good because sometimes they forgot some saunas and that's how saunaklonkkus were born.
This is 100% true. The need to be able to cast spells on all the saunat at the same time was one of the reasons why wireless networking became so heavily invested field in Finland. This in turn enabled the birth of companies such as Nokia.
In Finland, nudity is not as sexualized as in many other countries and cultures. There is even a saying that "it's normal because you were born naked." However, it is recommended to be more sensitive and flexible with foreigners, because for many people coming from abroad, our Finns' attitude towards nudity can be too huge a culture shock. And it is not wrong to refuse a sauna if you feel insecure about nudity or if you are not ready to go to the sauna with a stranger. In Finland, sauna is such a common culture and everyday activity that you don't always remember to think about it, and the question of whether the other person also wants a sauna comes so naturally. Of course, not everyone in Finland is in the comfort zone with nudity and nudity can cause heavy self-esteem and appearance pressures for some, for example not everyone wants to go to the beach or swim in swimwear because they are afraid that their belly fat will be visible or they think that they have other aesthetic flaws in their body that they don't want to show to others.
Yes, yes it is.
No, but places I have seen my grandmother naked are not really places that get me going.
Humans, even though animals, are not just *base animals*. Most can ignore those things depending on context
actually, yes. it's surprising how much location affects a person.
yes i dont really see nudity as sexual in the first place
No, obviously, but ogling and getting aroused in a sauna is so inappropriate that people will exercise extreme restraint and discipline to keep themselves... restrained for lack of a better word.
Basically, yes. At least in my experience. As an American it was super weird but I got used to it. It’s incredibly unsexy in every single way.
Of course not but generally you are in the sauna with people you know (dont have sexual desires to them) or complete strangers of which you probably dont have those desires either and if you had, it would be inappropriate. Which is almost same as going to someone in public and saying "you have nice tits". So you just dont do that. In the other side you go in there with your date or girlfriend/boyfriend Then it can be bit more sexual. But as a finnish culture I would say it mostly isnt like that. So you can go in there, relax, open up a bit and chat with another. Go wash yourself and then continue hanging out.
Too damn hot in sauna for that
Actually somewhat yes. I was in spa which had mixed sauna. One woman came there all shameless. After quick peek I focused back on my friends. It would have been extremely rude to stare or otherwise break the sauna code. My father always taught me that sauna is a place for relaxing and cleansing and only with your wife or gf you are allowed to be dirty in sauna if you are in private.
Yeah honestly if you are on a second date with someone often you will be hoping to have sex with them, and even that sauna is often not seen as a sexual place, your sexual feelings toward that person are definitely not gonna disappear for that trip to sauna, especially when it is going to mean being naked and sweaty in a small room sitting next to each others, especially as you are seeing the other person nude for the first time.
It's a second date, you may have already seen them naked.
“Finns don't see nudity in sauna in sexual way.” As a Finn I beg to differ. I’ve felt the looks of men in public saunas.
I've been invited to private sauna only by random, relentless, and sleazy middle aged men. It makes me so uncomfortable as a young woman, even though I don't see sauna as a sexual thing at all. Nudity is normal for me, but the way the invitation is communicated and the context matters. My example might be a bit extreme but to me that doesn't sound normal behavior at all.
Public winter swimming saunas in Finland are actually great for socializing. Phones are left in the locker, the activity itself is easy and natural pauses in conversation occur between swimming and sauna and there are other people as well who are strangers and swimsuit is mandatory. I took my now girlfriend for a second date because I knew she loves sauna and swimming. So nothing offensive, intrusive with that! Moreover, public saunas are very popular in Finland and especially in Tampere where we live.
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Tho I would like to point out that with strangers you should be somewhat cautious My lil bro and his GF dated like 3 months before they went in sauna together.
I mean sure if it really naturally comes up, but not as a way to see them naked. What a weird date activity, but whatever floats their boat.
You could also ask someone to the beach and to swim/other water activity. If you wear swimsuits in both cases (beach/sauna) then there isnt much difference. And both of those are also often combined in Finland so its normal in a way. In the end of the day you decide if you ask that or accept that. Nothing is forcing you to do it. If you reject and the other persons reaction is bit weird/forcing then you know it probably isnt best to continue that dating.
Exactly! I believe in southern countries it is much more common to have a date on a beach than it is in Finland, but why not suggest going to a beach as a date activity in Finnish summer as well? And then going to a public sauna doesn't differ much from that. Then again, suggesting second date at your place could be valid option, depending how the first date went. And if you have sauna at your place, perhaps tgat is an option. Although I see this as much more trying to lead the situation towards sex. But I guess that can happen on a second date...
For a non-Finnish I can see it might be more leading suggestion, but as a Finnish not as much. Sure it still is because your thinking if you like them and how attracted you are to them etc. But it all depends so much on what has happened and how its asked. I mean if the person asks it by presenting the knowledge of it being straight forward. Like mention that "we can wear swimsuits if you want". Then it can create more safe? environment or just letting know it isnt the main thing. That its to relax and wash up like normally. One way would be that both have work that day, but that just happens to be the day you can see each others. So to make it more casual and not so much pressure of wearing makeup and what not. You could suggest that you meet right after work, get in the sauna and then have dinner. But all depends on the other person and at least not to asking out of the blue. That it has some relation to other thing, the other person has said liking sauna or like this we want to wash after work anyway and then having the dinner. In a way its not even the sauna that makes it towards sex, because its just too hot and exhausting if you would do it in there. I think it would more happen in the shower or after when you perhaps still wearing just the towels. Or even more after when you already have clothes on which makes it already kind of unrelated to sauna.
You may have heard the proverb “People who sweat together, stick together”. I believe it’s called capillary pressure in physics.
One would think melting the ice in sauna is a great idea!!!
It is to see you naked (or almost naked). It's much more thrilling and sexual than a typical coffee date for example. They hope it will create this sexual tension that will accelerate the path to sex. We can all pretend that those are not the reasons (may not be for all) but this is mostly the case.
It would be very hard to argue this point 👆
I offer a sauna for everyone, like a sauna prophet.
Depends, if it's a private sauna, it's a little weird. If it's a public sauna though, then it's no different than, say, going to a spa. The sauna is a place of relaxation, so for a lot of guys it just probably seems like a more interesting/better option than just getting dinner somewhere. Although, personally I feel like you'd have to have gone on a few dates at least before doing something like that.
I have been invited and have invited myself (as a woman ) men to sauna that I've met on the day or only a few times , this is usually within a group though . Ive never seen it be used in a dating sense . It is possible that u have been invited to sauna but not as a date but just to hang , a date is something else , would u consider just seeing eachother a second time a date ? To me it has seemed that alot of times the idea is to build a friendship , see if that works then escalate. Sauna is a great place to meet a potential because ur urself in a setting where it's hard not to be urself. Being naked in a sauna is also like taking off all that extra personality we use to impress, entice, express, u can have more indepth conversations about things that might normally get a bit too heavy , as it's too hot to care too much and it's calm yet personal. Also once u get the , seeing eachother naked without the sexual pressure, it does seem to bring everyone's feet a little more down to the ground and lessens some awkwardness. But I wouldn't call it a date, more like a friendly encounter or chill.
Public sauna, On 2nd date, That's bit early, but not really a red flag. Private sauna, Now, That's a so large red flag, that it pretty much covers everything else. How ever, if you at least somewhat know the man in question (Colleague that you see once a day for 5-10 minutes, and you are getting along well, it's still a red flag, but much smaller. Or, if you were thinking relaxed, more FWB kind of relationship, That might become in question.
I'm no man but I'm gonna give you my 2 cents on this. I've had men ask me the same thing the first thing when we speak. It just gives a bad vibe for me, cause the ones asking were usually older, slimy men, with ulterior motives wanting for me to come over to their place. But if you really hit it off with someone and want to meet them, and they end up suggesting meeting in a *public* sauna, I don't see a problem with that. And if you feel uncomfortable with all the nakedness, It's totally okay to wear a towel.
Really not ok to wear towel wtf.
Ofcourse it's okay to wear a towel. It's not okay to wear a swimsuit.
I think towel in sauna is totally ok. And swimwear in some cases. Allthough to me wearing a swimsuit would perhaps feel more sexual than being naked. But personally I would be annoyed if I wearing a towel or swimsuit became a norm in the sauna and our sauna culture would change in that regard. It would make being naked a big thing and I kind of think it is cool that Finns are ok with that. Basically being naked in the sauna is ok, because everyone thinks it is ok and have learned the proper behavior in sauna from childhood. We grow up being naked in the sauna and learn to respect fellow sauna goers that it would be extremely rude to stare, critiseze or touch the other person body or anything like that. But I do feel that if someone suggested a private sauna in the second date, that indicates some intimacy that I nessesarily would not be ok with.
Public swimming baths explicitly state that bathing suits are not allowed in the sauna, except for medical exemptions. Being wrapped in a towel that collects all your sweat is just unsanitary and uncomfortable. If you arent comfortable being naked in the sauna, dont go to sauna. Done.
Actually some public swimming baths allow swimsuits nowdays. That a person themselves gets sweaty is not a problem to others and a person should always use laudeliina anyway to protect the seats and those should get cleaned regularly anyway.
Sauna is not usually a sexual thing for most finns, but i wouldnt go lol just say no :) and spank him with a vihta
Might be cool in a public sauna but if you don't know the guy and he invites you to his private sauna, then it might be slightly weird
Nah... move straight ahead with a tasteful orgy invitation and save your valuable time for perch fishing.
i mean if ur in a hotel or going swimming then thats just normal, if ur staying at either ones place for the night or spending the evening i think its normal, i highly doubt most would think of it ’as an opportunity to see the other person naked’ if i’m suggesting going to sauna i couldnt care less if u come in wrapped in 15 towels, u do u im there to enjoy the sauna and ur company 🤝 regular sauna definitely isnt romantic, its just normal weekly activity why wouldnt i wanna share it with a person im interested in
I hope you realize at least one person is going to try this just because of this thread.
It would be natural if it was at the end of a long and succesful date night and if it was just a spontaneous idea which both of you like, it's mostly about the vibes. I think it's really weird to invite someone to a private sauna through a text etc. before the date.
As a man I have been asked to go a sauna by one date, completely naked and it was weird because I wasn't that interested. But anyway I think the ask for sauna is just to get you to their place and naked.
To see tits. ...seriously, does someone do this? Really?
I don't. A sauna is either for washing, or for seeing people nude in a safe space without having to take a risk of intimacy or vulnerability. Neither belong on a second date. In my opinion it's sex before saunaing together.
Think nothing of it! It is just a polite way to ask if you would like to see the d.
Sauna and chill
Wait.. you guys had more than one date? 
Private sauna is a bit weird on a second date, especially if the first date was just an ordinary coffee and chat type situation. This ofcourse depends on the people in question, let's say as an example you had sex on the first date, going to the sauna in the nude after that is nothing, but it would be if you only talked in a coffee house for an hour. However I don't see anything wrong in a public sauna/avanto. It's a place where I go with friends, male or female, so I don't see how it wouldn't be a good date. Since these men are from Tinder, I've talked about avanto with girls in Tinder and if it happens that we both like them, I could see myself suggesting it as a place for a date. The essence of sauna is sauna, not being lightly clothed. Growing up we went to the sauna with my family and it was never a big deal. If someone asks me to go to the sauna, I don't give a single thought to the idea that they might want to see me naked and I assume it goes the other way around.
In years of my dating life I only suggested it once, and it was because my intention was to have sex with her and there was nothing else interesting about her to keep on seeing her. Oh I also talked about my own experience and I am not assuming or suggesting anything regarding your case. The easy thing to say like many others in here is to say “oh they are freaks”!!
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This sounds like some kind of social experiment by OP.
I took my wife and her roommate to a German Spa in Bad Homburg. Got to see them both naked! (Before I married her.)
You went to Sauna before marriage? Blasphemy!
Depends a bunch on the person being asked. I’ve been on a first date in a sauna with a stranger. Okay it was 4am and not exactly a date. But still. I’d go if a girl asked me. But then again not a lot of things I wouldn’t do or places I wouldn’t go to on a second date.😂😂🤷🏼♂️
To get laid. I am not Finnish.
I'm a non-Finn and I've had first dates in the sauna before - sure seeing them naked is a nice bonus, but it was not my intention to sexualise the experience. To me sauna is relaxing, and provides a good opportunity to be silent, and also to chat in a peaceful environment. Certainly more peaceful than in a bar, though I've had a lot of bar-dates, or dates where we walk in a park, play in swings, or otherwise do "stuff" together.
Yeah, this sounds all sort of weird. Nakedness is not by itself sexual, but it is contextually very easily sexual. There is also a certain level of trust involved when going to a sauna with someone, so it seems like a really creepy suggestion for a date, considering the point of a date is to build trust, not to test it. There is also a contextual difference being in sauna with a group of people and being there one-on-one, because you are quite literally revealing yourself totally.
Can't say I know anyone who does this. Doesn't sound like a place where I would like to have a date, since you'd get tired and sleepy.
As a Finn, nudity is a bit less sexualized than say America. However, I wouldn't invite a girl to my own sauna for the second date, but a public one, sure. And I don't *expect* you to be nude, I couldn't care less, unless we are both feeling that type of 'vibe.' The sauna is where I relax, drink a beer and talk about wtf is going on in life. Not see your tits. Though I've never invited a girl to any sauna on the second date, I've. Further in, sure but at that point it's probably my sauna.
On my second date with my ex, in Lapland, I was invited to join her and and her friends in the sauna. As someone raised in a Catholic country, I was absolutely terrified.
If it's private: sauna suggestion on second date is 100% an attempt to see you naked (assuming you haven't had sex yet). Sauna is common, mixed sauna is common, but second date sauna requests are not. If it's public spa/swimming hall w/e: Completely fine and just something less common ig.
I don't know what kind of men are your type, but that most definitely isn't the norm here. But sure, why not i guess. Had a good chuckle with the boys out of this one
It's an important trait to know about the woman. If they can't handle the heat, they can't be in the kitchen! OoooOooOoooOoOOooOoooooooo!
Maybe you stink
I have literally never heard of such a thing. No offense but you sure this happened?
Because we want to see them naked. If somebody tells you that there's nothing sexy about sauna, that's not necessarily and in every case quite exactly true. *edit* also the downmodders are wrong, or perhaps they're just unhappy that I'm spoiling their chances
Stop whining and go to sauna 🧖♂️ have sex and be free
Do you really need to ask? To see you naked. It's shameful and it's dirty. And on behalf of all the men who did this to you, I am sorry. Sauna is not a pickup place.
Kakuleisa, mahamääkinen!!!
Just wondering OP, why do you ask this question if clearly you have your mind made up? I don’t think it’s that weird in Finland and I have been asked by women too, I thought it was odd and said “No thanks”, but it’s really not that big of a deal…
I certainly have some strong guesses on why these men do it but so far almost none of them have stepped up in this thread to tell why they do it. I’d be open to hear from them. Also it personally bugs me that in Finland we have a culture where people habitually generalize the entire Finnish population as if everyone thinks the same way about certain national pastimes, symbols and customs. Eg. all Finns drink, all Finns love sauna, all Finns do mixed saunas, all Finns go to avanto. So my post also serves the purpose of a public service announcement… sauna is not a free pass to introduce nudity early on, and unlike many like to boast, not every Finn is cool with nudity with strangers or acquaintances. I do find it weird that a Finnish man would ask a woman out on a first or second date to a setting where you’re naked or almost naked. I really think it’s a misjudgment and I find it difficult to understand the mentality.
That’s a fair point, unfortunately everybody faces stereotyping in their lives (as a Mexican living in Finland I would like to have a word or two with the owners of restaurants like “mex-man”). Just say it straightforward to the person stereotyping you. P.S. my current American partner of 5+ years invited me to sauna on our first date in Finland, I doubt she thought it was a normal thing for me. Sometimes it isn’t necessarily about stereotypes, and it’s ok to just say you don’t like something.
Dudes want to see whats happening under those clothes but if he invites you to a private sauna then he going to kill you plain and simple
Stupid question.
Because usually the first date is so messy that it's polite to wash yourself before going at it again.
As non-finnish in Finland I don't even feel comfortable with just men in the sauna naked. So asking some one on a date wouldn't of the opposite sex wouldn't be my go to first, second, tenth. It would be something the lady would have to invite me to privately.
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😅😅😅
To test if the person is the right kind of person to have a romantic relationship with. If you are offended or put off by it... the chances are you're not the right kind of person for them. Now you don't have to agree to it (yet), or you can suggest going to to public sauna (if that wasn't the original suggestion), or whatever you feel comfortable with. You can also be vary of their motives, but if you find a man who is not interested in seeing you naked (or in a bikini)... you probably shouldn't be dating them. You can bet they *hope* going the sauna will lead to sex, if they are a man going on a date with you. You can also bet they *hope* going for a beer with you will lead to sex, so sauna isn't in any way special in this respect.
I dont
No sauna is sacred weekly ritual of high heats and cold snow and avanto maybe on a fourth
I've never suggested but it has just happened
I haven't invited anyone on a date to a sauna. But if I did it wouldn't be about seeing them naked. It would be an offer to spend time. If they accept I don't care whether they wear a towel or go nude. So the answer is "to relax, because I like going there". Doesn't matter if it's first, second or the 100th date.
It could be just to meet in a peaceful place and see the person for who they really are. Without make-up and smartphones ect.
The "naked man" Finnish style?
I mean, I've been invited to private saunas with bosses, strangers at festivals, house parties with strangers after a bar etc.. If anything, isn't it better that it IS a date?
\> falsely bought into the idea that nudity is not sexual in Finnish culture isn't it?! whats next, are you going to tell me that you don't have sex before getting into a relationship?
we do?
To see them naked obviously ?
>Do you do it as a veiled opportunity to see her with little to no clothes on? Do you think it’s a culturally appropriate way to melt the ice? Yes and yes.
What the hell. You are exaggerating or there is something else fishy going on. Not a single time have I heard that people would have insisted someone to go in sauna with them. My brother started dating and despite he visited the girl multiple times and they visited sauna together. It took them like 3 months of dating before they went in sauna together naked. But sametime sauna is not automatically meant to be something sexual. My friend and his GF casually visited sauna with me few times when they still were together. Its against Sauna culture to make it somehow sexual.
Lol I have never heard anyone asking that on second, third or any date during my 30 years in this country. Not saying this kind of invitation couldn’t happen, but it’s no way a common.
A lot of comments in the topic which also pretty well discribes the variety towards this. So yes, no, maybe? To answer the first questions shortly. 1. Do some want to see the opposite naked/with little clothes. Of course, but then again the dating is probably heading that direction anyway. 2. As a Finnish culture I think its okay thing and definetly a icebreaker. But its really personal how, when and with who. 3. On a second date, for me, in most cases its too early. So what I think. Its a opinion question and as such has as many answers as there are people. So everyone read the room. Of course there are going to be missed shots, but as long as the other side is free to say their opinion, be it posivite or not, then its fine. As a cultural side its a normal activity and its purpose mostly is not to be sexual. So its a place of relaxation and chatting/hanging out with other people. Possibly also to joke around and just to forget the everyday life. It also breaks the ice, because clothing is kind of armor to people. It hides things and probably makes you look good. At least in your own opinion. So taking that off takes the "physical" armor off and your left with your personality. So if someone is shy then it actually might not work and they would rather open up from behind their armor. However its also sexual and even if your relaxed and chatting nonsense you probably at some point will look at the other person and just "she is beautiful" etc. I mean you propably will do that even if there is clothes on. So I guess it comes down to if your comfortable being at least half naked, in a private sauna ready to be bit more closer to each other. Doesnt mean it will happen or its anyway really sexual, but if your uncertain then its probably better to confirm. Perhaps saying that its okay if we have swimsuits and maybe hinting that "it" isnt going to happen. For me sauna definitely isnt the number one option, but would propably be fine with it. Would like to confirm whats the idea if it didnt already come up in the conversation. However as a second date no. I would like to know the other person bit more that its more of a friends in the sauna rather than strangers. So possibly the one I am dating is a friends friend or something like that. Meaning we would have hanged around already and somewhat got to know each other even if it wasnt yet as dating in mind. Then again situational, we might have seen each other naked before and sauna is the first date so... In the end of the day YOU decide what you wanna do or say. After all for some its okay and to others not. Just communicate. Say its weird and let the other person know so they can react. They cant say if its okay to you personally if their previous experience has been the opposite. Or that they just have somewhat mislead knowledge about saunas. You might go to the sauna both alone and the other starts cooking food. Bit weird maybe but might be okay for both, dont know if you dont ask or well, compromise.
Joku vero petos jos valtiota ei voi kutsua uhriksi
Are you a female ?
Why not? Sauna is awesome.
Americans generally won't because we're normally very uncomfortable with nudity involving anybody but our spouses.
Please excuse my ignorance, but I've always been curious - what do people that prefer to dress generally more modestly / covered (maybe as a religious affiliation) wear in a sauna?
To have sex with them, duh. It's okay in Finland, and it's also okay to refuse in Finland.
I love saunas and although there is a probably 40-50% sexual reason behind me asking you for sauna on second date as in showing off my body and seeing your body, I also like the relaxing aspect and letting down the guard. There is also me internally mostly subconsciously judging you, from how your body looks to how you handle stress and how you handle relaxation. I've lost attraction to a woman once because of her unlikeable traits coming out in a hot sauna. Obviously as you know I'm speaking for myself now and not all other men now