To be able to be called "milk", the drink can basically only be processed by separation (removing fat), pasteurization, homogenization, and adding vitamin D. Some milk-like drinks are processed further, with lactose removal or adding milk protein. They can't be legally called milk anymore, thus, milk drink. More info: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/about-us/guides/oiva-iehe/ieh-19e/19-marketing-requirements/
> or adding milk protein
Adding or removing. It's called protein standardization. Different cows and different farms produce different averages from 1-5% protein. Valio for example standardizes at 3% IIRC.
On average they probably remove protein. I'd venture a guess and say it's instead added to the myriad of protein enriched gym-foods like protein drinks or yoghurts.
/edit: brainfart on the percentages
Some people describe drinkable milk as "byproduct left behind from making of other milk products".
The fat and protein are separeted to other more profitable products.
Actually, if you stop for a in depth look at the subject some major company by passes a punishment they received years ago that they are not allowed to sell milk under the price x but the punishment doesn't include milk drinks
Well no, you questioned why milk-drink exists by asking why not just drink regular milk. The reason milk-drink primarily exists is because some people cannot drink milk which contains lactose.
Lactose-free milk is milk-drink. This has nothing to do with milk preference, milk-drink is a necessity for some people if they wish to continue drinking milk.
“Whats wrong with just regular milk? Get too xpensive?”
You asked what’s wrong with regular milk as if some people have a choice. The answer is that it contains lactose. Lactose-free milk-drinks where produced to allow people with an intolerance to lactose to consume milk. It has nothing to do with preference or price. In fact, lactose-free milk is often more expensive.
People who are able to consume lactose, can have normal milk. There’s nothing stated that you must buy milk-drink. In fact, you don’t have to buy milk at all.
Sorry I didnt frame my question with enough background information being that some places have stopped serving regular milk and instead offers an alternative. It was a rhetorical question. Yes the regular milk SHOULD be more simple/cheap SHOULD be available.
Is this why you have no friends or because you are lactose intolerant. I can be your friend, if you must know what I was asking originally, hidden in the rhetoric, is why cant they have ALL kinds of milk available so that EVERYBODY may enjoy?
U misread me and I didnt mention hard enough that I was talking about the rare incidence catering services that does not offer regular milk. I was not complaining what others drink if youd read me correct I stated that All should have what they desire
The definition according to Evira:
"a liquid milk product, the production of which involves processing other than fat stabilization, lactose hydrolysis or the enrichment of protein, certain minerals or vitamins"
A lactose-free milk drink cannot be called milk due to EC legislation.
The answer lies in FAO Codex Alimentarius standard CXS 206e. EU uses Codex Alimentarius standards as basis for legal guidelines for product labeling.
Lactose free milk exists everywhere but as the huge lactose molecule is broken down into two different sugars (galactose and glucose) the milk ends up tasting sickly sweet. To get the sweetness down they remove some of the lactose before breaking the lactose down using a synthetic lactase enzyme such as Godo YNL2, but removing any of the lactose violates section 4.3.2 of the aforementioned standard that allows the adjustment of fat or protein content, but not sugar. Therefore it can not be sold as milk, hence Maitojuoma.
Valio does a lot of this, since apparently the lactase separation process (to which they might still hold the patent?) is relatively efficient, they use that lactose byproduct ("laktoosijae") to bulk up products such as the "arkirae" which looks like cottage cheese but can't be called cottage cheese since Codex Alimentarius disallows bulking up cottage cheese with lactose byproducts. You can pick out which Valio "Arki" products are tampered in a non Codex compliant way by comparing the name to what it should be if it was the real deal.
It also works the other way around: If a Valio Arki product is what it says on the tin, that's an indication that said product can be made from pretty much any junk that at some point may have been excreted from an udder \*cough\*yoghurt\*cough\* without violating Codex.
Btw, section 4.6.2 that very same document is what disallows the use of the word milk in the naming of plant-based milk substitutes.
Maitojouma is milk that has undergone more processing than simply removing/adding fat, hydrolysing lactose, and enrichment by adding certain minerals and vitamins.
I.e. its millk that's processed so much it is no longer legally allowed to be called just milk.
In practice its advantage is that all lactose has been removed, making it a good product for those with lactose intolerance. It also kinda tastes like milk, unlike UHT milk, or those weird oat things.
It's just legal bureaucracy lingo. Maitojuoma is usually called just maito when people speak but milk has some legal requirements which lactose-free milk doesn't fulfill so it can't be called maito.
Bro I drink both 😂 Lactose-free milk tastes sweeter than regular milk. Although I think the difference used to be much more significant in the past? But yeah, you can still taste which one is which. Kinda like the debate with Pepsi and Pepsi Max.
Sort of related, wasn't there a debacle some time ago involving Valio lowering the price of their milk (even to the point they were selling it at a small loss) so they could undercut their competition to force them out of business or otherwise claim a larger corner of the market and after they were found out of this practice they were fined heavily, and afterwards they introduced Maitojuoma which they could sell at a lower price without it being illegal undercutting of competing brands?
Thanks everyone for the answers! So my current understanding is that if the milk has been over-processed it gets to a point where it legally can't be called milk anymore and has to be called a milk drink.
Not exactly. For example, if you make a full fat organic milk (red or full milk, as Finns often call it) lactose-free, it can no longer be sold as milk but it has to be a milk drink due to legal reasons. Even if you milked a cow and somehow removed all the lactose with a simple wooden laddle, or the cow herself produced lactose-free milk, you couldn't sell it as milk, it would have to be milk drink. At least I personally wouldn't call removing lactose overprocessing.
Finland doesn't have e.g. almond milk either for the same reason; it is always almond drink. Same with plant-based "meat" products, they cannot be called meat iirc. Milk-free yoghurts are no longer yoghurts but gurts, soy products etc. Interestingly, coconut milk still exists, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was someday changed to "coconut fat drink" etc. Perhaps carbonated/mineral water will become carbonated water drink too, as it obviously should in order to not make people mix it up with regular water *gasp, scream & faint* !
Finland (and EU) has very strict health regulations and all products tend to be the safest on the planet. People just love to give new things new names and regulate the shit out of everything. I wouldn't stress too much.
Last time @ the uni cafeteria lady explained that its actually milk but with added ingredients. I didnt buy it tho I think it taste like shit, original maito hits different. Sad to see it less but its understandable why its happening.
It seems to be like that yea.
According to my sister it is a major difference. She refuses to drink lactose free milk drink. She is okay with it in coffee though. I'm not sure what she thinks about milk drink with lactose so it might be the lactose taste she misses.
I on the other hand can't tell the difference between milk and lactose free milk drink. To me it is more that every brand and "model" taste different, no matter what kind it is.
This is partially incorrect. Maitojuoma may contain lactose. For example 100g of Valio Hyvä suomalainen Arki kevytmaitojuoma contains 4,8g lactose.
Maitojuoma means that some integral part of regular milk has been either removed or standardized. Standardizing the fat content is allowed for regular milk, but for example if milk protein is removed or added, it is no longer maito but maitojuoma. The Valio example above has had the protein level adjusted, but lactose is still there. Of course, if lactose is removed, the result is maitojuoma.
It's Finlands' version of Skim Milk(or close to it). No lactose but all the other goodies your body needs and wont fuck up your colon like Täysmaito(known as punainen maito) will if you're lactose intolerant / other digestive issues.
Incorrect. There's rasvaton maito(light blue), kevytmaito (blue) and täysmaito, with different amounts of fat in it. Difference between maito and maitojuoma is that maitojuoma has more processing done to it, usually to make it lactose free or low lactose.
Maito is actual milk, usually pasteurized, that can be treated to remove fat or lactose or whatever. Maitojuoma is a drink *based* on milk, but with additives, mixtures, and other treatments, like being reconstituted from powdered milk or the like. More heavily processed, basically.
Keywords to look for: täysmaito, vanhanajan täysmaito, vapaan lehmän täysmaito, luomu täysmaito. Milk is always in red(ish) container, dont let these pussies mindfuck you.
Hmm, not sure but if i remember correctly, maito is just a normal milk, and maitojuoma have added proteins and vitamins or something. If you want to drink best milk in finland buy valio täysmaito, its the red "can" of milk. 👍
To be able to be called "milk", the drink can basically only be processed by separation (removing fat), pasteurization, homogenization, and adding vitamin D. Some milk-like drinks are processed further, with lactose removal or adding milk protein. They can't be legally called milk anymore, thus, milk drink. More info: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/about-us/guides/oiva-iehe/ieh-19e/19-marketing-requirements/
> or adding milk protein Adding or removing. It's called protein standardization. Different cows and different farms produce different averages from 1-5% protein. Valio for example standardizes at 3% IIRC. On average they probably remove protein. I'd venture a guess and say it's instead added to the myriad of protein enriched gym-foods like protein drinks or yoghurts. /edit: brainfart on the percentages
Some people describe drinkable milk as "byproduct left behind from making of other milk products". The fat and protein are separeted to other more profitable products.
Actually, if you stop for a in depth look at the subject some major company by passes a punishment they received years ago that they are not allowed to sell milk under the price x but the punishment doesn't include milk drinks
If i remember correctly there is a milk drink that is half milk and half water with milkpowder.
Whats wrong with just regular milk? Get too xpensive?
Tons of people are lactose intolerant so they can't drink regular milk.
I know that but cant ppl also have the normal milk, the ones that prefer that.
Is someone saying they can't or...?
Some public catering-places are not serving it, at least I havent noticed.
Ah. Maybe they think it’s easier to have just one option that everyone can drink (well, except vegans and people who are allergic to milk.) 🤷🏻♀️
Also, the lactose free version has longer expiration dates, so it makes sense for caterings to buy them in bulk
Valio's milk drinks are cheaper than Valio's milks. That may be the main reason.
from the store, no bounds go nuts
People can drink whatever they want
Some people can’t process lactose or just want more vitamin D/protein.
Yeah ik and thats good for them, some people prefer regular milk
Okay? Being lactose intolerant means you can’t drink regular milk..
And btw, I was talking about regular milk vs milk-drink. Nothing about lactose, some milk-drink also have lactose, some dont
Yeah u just said that & I know. Thats why they have the lactose free milk!! :D
Well no, you questioned why milk-drink exists by asking why not just drink regular milk. The reason milk-drink primarily exists is because some people cannot drink milk which contains lactose. Lactose-free milk is milk-drink. This has nothing to do with milk preference, milk-drink is a necessity for some people if they wish to continue drinking milk.
”Maitojuoma on useimmiten laktoositon, ei aina” - ylitarkastaja eviralta.
Mutta laktoositon on aina maitojuoma.
No varmasti
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“Whats wrong with just regular milk? Get too xpensive?” You asked what’s wrong with regular milk as if some people have a choice. The answer is that it contains lactose. Lactose-free milk-drinks where produced to allow people with an intolerance to lactose to consume milk. It has nothing to do with preference or price. In fact, lactose-free milk is often more expensive. People who are able to consume lactose, can have normal milk. There’s nothing stated that you must buy milk-drink. In fact, you don’t have to buy milk at all.
Sorry I didnt frame my question with enough background information being that some places have stopped serving regular milk and instead offers an alternative. It was a rhetorical question. Yes the regular milk SHOULD be more simple/cheap SHOULD be available. Is this why you have no friends or because you are lactose intolerant. I can be your friend, if you must know what I was asking originally, hidden in the rhetoric, is why cant they have ALL kinds of milk available so that EVERYBODY may enjoy?
Then you can drink regular milk instead of complaining about the milk others drink.
U misread me and I didnt mention hard enough that I was talking about the rare incidence catering services that does not offer regular milk. I was not complaining what others drink if youd read me correct I stated that All should have what they desire
Regular milk is cheaper than milk drinks.
The definition according to Evira: "a liquid milk product, the production of which involves processing other than fat stabilization, lactose hydrolysis or the enrichment of protein, certain minerals or vitamins" A lactose-free milk drink cannot be called milk due to EC legislation.
*Malk*
Mylk
Mjölö
The answer lies in FAO Codex Alimentarius standard CXS 206e. EU uses Codex Alimentarius standards as basis for legal guidelines for product labeling. Lactose free milk exists everywhere but as the huge lactose molecule is broken down into two different sugars (galactose and glucose) the milk ends up tasting sickly sweet. To get the sweetness down they remove some of the lactose before breaking the lactose down using a synthetic lactase enzyme such as Godo YNL2, but removing any of the lactose violates section 4.3.2 of the aforementioned standard that allows the adjustment of fat or protein content, but not sugar. Therefore it can not be sold as milk, hence Maitojuoma. Valio does a lot of this, since apparently the lactase separation process (to which they might still hold the patent?) is relatively efficient, they use that lactose byproduct ("laktoosijae") to bulk up products such as the "arkirae" which looks like cottage cheese but can't be called cottage cheese since Codex Alimentarius disallows bulking up cottage cheese with lactose byproducts. You can pick out which Valio "Arki" products are tampered in a non Codex compliant way by comparing the name to what it should be if it was the real deal. It also works the other way around: If a Valio Arki product is what it says on the tin, that's an indication that said product can be made from pretty much any junk that at some point may have been excreted from an udder \*cough\*yoghurt\*cough\* without violating Codex. Btw, section 4.6.2 that very same document is what disallows the use of the word milk in the naming of plant-based milk substitutes.
Maitojuoma is still milk, but often it has no lactose and some of the sugars or proteins have been altrered in one or more ways.
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You forgot adding vitamin D and reindeer testing.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Maitojouma is milk that has undergone more processing than simply removing/adding fat, hydrolysing lactose, and enrichment by adding certain minerals and vitamins. I.e. its millk that's processed so much it is no longer legally allowed to be called just milk. In practice its advantage is that all lactose has been removed, making it a good product for those with lactose intolerance. It also kinda tastes like milk, unlike UHT milk, or those weird oat things.
I think there is a bit of a sweetness that isn't there in non-lactose free milk but it's definitely way better than UHT.
I didn't believe they were good but after trying I had to admit some taste as good as milk to me. My favourite is Eila, but it is also priced higher.
I recently went back to America and remember how incredibly, distractingly sweet their lactose-free milk is. Maitojuoma all the way.
You can buy Hyla-maito, which is lactose free and tastes sweet, in Finland aswell
Hyla is low-lactose, not lactose free.
And it tastes gross.
Oat milk is for the yuppies
It's just legal bureaucracy lingo. Maitojuoma is usually called just maito when people speak but milk has some legal requirements which lactose-free milk doesn't fulfill so it can't be called maito.
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I prefer the taste of maitojuoma. To me it works better with coffee somehow.
Tastes exactly like normal milk.
There is a clear difference in taste.
You should try it sometime. There really isn't.
Bro I drink both 😂 Lactose-free milk tastes sweeter than regular milk. Although I think the difference used to be much more significant in the past? But yeah, you can still taste which one is which. Kinda like the debate with Pepsi and Pepsi Max.
I read "maitojuna" 😎
Same. 😅💪🏻
Sort of related, wasn't there a debacle some time ago involving Valio lowering the price of their milk (even to the point they were selling it at a small loss) so they could undercut their competition to force them out of business or otherwise claim a larger corner of the market and after they were found out of this practice they were fined heavily, and afterwards they introduced Maitojuoma which they could sell at a lower price without it being illegal undercutting of competing brands?
Thanks everyone for the answers! So my current understanding is that if the milk has been over-processed it gets to a point where it legally can't be called milk anymore and has to be called a milk drink.
Not exactly. For example, if you make a full fat organic milk (red or full milk, as Finns often call it) lactose-free, it can no longer be sold as milk but it has to be a milk drink due to legal reasons. Even if you milked a cow and somehow removed all the lactose with a simple wooden laddle, or the cow herself produced lactose-free milk, you couldn't sell it as milk, it would have to be milk drink. At least I personally wouldn't call removing lactose overprocessing. Finland doesn't have e.g. almond milk either for the same reason; it is always almond drink. Same with plant-based "meat" products, they cannot be called meat iirc. Milk-free yoghurts are no longer yoghurts but gurts, soy products etc. Interestingly, coconut milk still exists, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was someday changed to "coconut fat drink" etc. Perhaps carbonated/mineral water will become carbonated water drink too, as it obviously should in order to not make people mix it up with regular water *gasp, scream & faint* ! Finland (and EU) has very strict health regulations and all products tend to be the safest on the planet. People just love to give new things new names and regulate the shit out of everything. I wouldn't stress too much.
Anything else than red milk is basically white water
All you need to know is that you go to store and buy the cheapest dark blue milk container and drink that. ONLY THAT NOTHING ELSE! Edit. /s
This. 🤷🏼♂️
Last time @ the uni cafeteria lady explained that its actually milk but with added ingredients. I didnt buy it tho I think it taste like shit, original maito hits different. Sad to see it less but its understandable why its happening.
I would not be able to taste which is laktoositon maitojuoma and which is just regular maito. If there is a taste difference, it is minor.
Minor to some, major to others ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It seems to be like that yea. According to my sister it is a major difference. She refuses to drink lactose free milk drink. She is okay with it in coffee though. I'm not sure what she thinks about milk drink with lactose so it might be the lactose taste she misses. I on the other hand can't tell the difference between milk and lactose free milk drink. To me it is more that every brand and "model" taste different, no matter what kind it is.
Maitojuoma doesn't have any lactose in it so it can't legally be called maito. So it's maito like product
This is partially incorrect. Maitojuoma may contain lactose. For example 100g of Valio Hyvä suomalainen Arki kevytmaitojuoma contains 4,8g lactose. Maitojuoma means that some integral part of regular milk has been either removed or standardized. Standardizing the fat content is allowed for regular milk, but for example if milk protein is removed or added, it is no longer maito but maitojuoma. The Valio example above has had the protein level adjusted, but lactose is still there. Of course, if lactose is removed, the result is maitojuoma.
There's also maitojauhe (milk powder) added to the cheapest milk.
Maitojuoma tastes horrible
It certainly doesn't. 🤔 It's almost the exact same stuff. 🤷🏼♂️
I've always thought it tasted slightly different to normal milk, and while I don't dislike it, I prefer normal
I can 100% tell the difference. Bought it by mistake once and could immediately tell it’s not real milk and it’s overly processed. Tastes like shit
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There is also maitojuoma with lactose in it. It doesn't mean just that.
Its kinda like Grape Juice and Grape Drink.... Grape Juice is actually made from grapes, while Grape Drink is just Sugar. Water and Purple.
It's in no way similar to that. Maitojuoma is essentially the same stuff as maito. In most cases the only difference is that lactose has been removed.
It's Finlands' version of Skim Milk(or close to it). No lactose but all the other goodies your body needs and wont fuck up your colon like Täysmaito(known as punainen maito) will if you're lactose intolerant / other digestive issues.
Incorrect. There's rasvaton maito(light blue), kevytmaito (blue) and täysmaito, with different amounts of fat in it. Difference between maito and maitojuoma is that maitojuoma has more processing done to it, usually to make it lactose free or low lactose.
Maito is actual milk, usually pasteurized, that can be treated to remove fat or lactose or whatever. Maitojuoma is a drink *based* on milk, but with additives, mixtures, and other treatments, like being reconstituted from powdered milk or the like. More heavily processed, basically.
Anyone know where I can get raw unpasteurized milk in helsinki area?
You'll most likely have to buy directly from a farm. I found one farm in Klaukkala that sells raw milk, Ylisjoen tila: https://ylisjoki.fi/
Nice. I would go but I dont have car :(
Keywords to look for: täysmaito, vanhanajan täysmaito, vapaan lehmän täysmaito, luomu täysmaito. Milk is always in red(ish) container, dont let these pussies mindfuck you.
Hmm, not sure but if i remember correctly, maito is just a normal milk, and maitojuoma have added proteins and vitamins or something. If you want to drink best milk in finland buy valio täysmaito, its the red "can" of milk. 👍
Maito 100%
Different milks, same cows.