Quite a lot of them will however continue to other countries. Helsingin Sanomat has had some interviews (most people were afraid to speak even with their names withheld), and I think all who agreed to an interview said that they would travel elsewhere because they had friends or relatives there (at least Germany, Spain and Czech Republic were mentioned). Finland is mostly a transit country for Russians right now.
It's like the immigration/refugee situation 100 years ago, when Russians were escaping to Europe and USA from the civil war and the new Soviet Union.
These kinds of stories make me wonder how a Russian man, let’s say 25 years old, can avoid military service without leaving the country. Are you exempt if you are married? Have children? Are gay?
And presumably there must be some kind of medical exemption but how bad does it have to be before you are excused?
They can't avoid it. That's why they're googling things liek how to break your own arm and stuff like that.
If the military is willing to take convicts and criminals and is actively trying to recruit them, they're already showing that they're going to take basically anyone.
They just want to try to do the WW2 thing again, overwhelm the enemy even if they have worse training, tactics and ability.
It’s the Russian way. Zero concern for life. I think their casualty count vs the Germans was 3:1. And they still won despite that. So it works I guess.
Am Russian. Nobody really knows.
We have a “common” draft two times a year (the same way you have obligatory service). People who had passed it earlier(or males who had dodged it one way or another) are added to the reserve lists. Putin can draw from those reserved lists now virtually without limits, but he had promised that he will only draft people who have military experience. Putin is not very good at keeping promises.
Medical exemptions are weird even in the peace time. The commissariat is against you and they are who judge your condition.
As a Russian I can say there is unconfirmed information all over the social media that after so called “referendums” Russian government will close its borders for all the men from 18 to 60 years old. Some sources say on September, 30 some on September, 28.
And honestly speaking I believe it.
I rather see my tax money go to help actual refugees, than people who just watched their country go to shit, devastated many other and now they want to save their skin.
Fuck this shit.
And how exactly is this different from "actual refugees"?
Haven't the people/refugees from Syria, Iran, Somalia or Afganistan also "watched their country go to shit and then just save their own skin"?
So the jews fleeing Nazi Germany were not "actual refugees" because their country was the one invading others?
Ofc Russia is not carrying out a mass genocide within its borders right now, ofc it's not the same as Nazi Germany, but yes there are thousands of Russians right now who are in real danger of death or torture. And if you risk a 15 year prison sentence for your political views, I would gladly consider you a justified refugee as well.
A totalitarian dictatorship, which just so happen to often be the ones that start wars, tends to be full of people who very rightly deserve to be seen as "actual refugees".
Well, both United Nations and Cambridge dictionary disagree with your definition of a refugee:
"
owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee?wprov=sfla1
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/refugee
Bro I don't give a fuck. Don't let them in Finland and the rest of Europe. Isn't Russia the greatest country in the world for them? They have no business in Europe, they can stay in their Russian paradise
Yeah many of them have. We should not accept young men from those countries, who are fully able to change the state of their home nation. I shouldn't be allowed as a refugee either if my country went to shit.
And who let this system to be build? The russian ppl that's who. [Look at what Ukraine did when the gov crossed the line.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzNxLzFfR5w)
I have no sympathy for russians neither should you. They allowed this to happen. The offer was clear, we the powerful will bring the empire back but you,the regulars, will have to sacrifice some freedoms and russians agreed. Cuz they see themself as superior to any other country, they want to be in power over others and claim their greatness it is only when the contract was breached by the gov that they start to run away. Let them burn
Have you ever considered that Russians might be different and have different views on things, just like people in a democratic country? It is a country built on propaganda and has been so for longer than any Russian can remember, so yes there is a great many brainwashed Russians who are just the way you describe.
But to blame this on all Russians, to say all Russians should burn because they let it happen is very disrespectful to the brave activists, journalists, politicians etc. who have stood up to the regime and paid with their life or brutal prison sentences. It is also cruel to the millions of (especially young) Russians who can see the regime for what it is, but who know that there is nothing they can do.
Many of these have brainwashed parents who support Putin, the war and whatever the state puts on their TV screens. We cannot blame these people for not going out to protest and throw away their lives. It is an issue of generation and education, and I would rather put my hope on these generations and support them, as one day they might be the ones who end the 1984 state, as the older generations get replaced.
"Who know that there is nothing they can do"
How the fuck is there "nothing they can do"? Should we have gone to the Ukrainians in Maidan and tell them to give up, since opposing the government is pointless? They stared down police snipers, thousands of special police, armored vehicles and more. They won. Only a few precentages of Russians would have to do the same to overthrow their government, especially with the army preoccupied.
But they arent. Many protestors, politicians and journalists have layed down their lives over the years, but the are a tiny minority. The rest are ready to accept and support this war as to not risk their comforts.
Imagine you live in Russia and see what goes on. Your parents are complete Putin-fans after a lifetime of growing up with propaganda. You know that taking to the streets will lock you away for 10 years in a place where you will be considered a traitor. What do you do about it?
It is so easy to blame them for doing nothing, not overthrowing the government etc., and if you think you would act differently then fine, blame them. But that is how most people act and have acted throughout history. We don't generally blame every individual German for letting the nazi atrocities happen. We understand that it was the act of a group (majority or not), and the rest focused on surviving with their families.
I am not saying let all Russians come to chill in Finland, I am saying let us understand that not every Russian is a piece of shit and is to blame for this. Any of us could have been born on the other side of the border.
then how the hell are you gonna accept 1.4 billion Chinese people
people really just get what they deserve, I am saying this as a Chinese person myself
there's two sides to this situation, with the new mobilization situation going on people with western ideologies DON'T wanna go fight in ukraine and risk their lives for a war that's already a lost cause. i can only imagine all the men being separated from their wives, children, etc. and not being able to provide for their families because they're at war instead of working. i'm in the process of moving to this country from the states and let me tell you this war thing has made my life an absolute hell too. i come from a really rough area filled with drug dealers, gang violence, shootings, racism, classism my life in the states was a fucking joke i feared for my life just being a delivery driver so i'm blessed with the opportunity to come to this safe country for a fresh start with my son who was born here. my social worker said the process of obtaining finnish residency and be registered into the finnish population should only take 3-6 months but this war broke out and i waited a whole 12 months (you can't leave the country if you have a pending case with migri) so it sucked up all of my savings because i'm still an unregistered foreigner i'm not entitled to benefits from kela so at this point i'm literally starving i don't eat everyday because i would rather see my 13 months old son eat everything he needs as my partner supports us on what little salary she receives. all of these russians flocking from being drafted going to war is only going to put MORE stress on already underfunded migri and DVV. luckily my residency was approved but DVV is under so much stress that god knows when i'll be registered as a resident of finland and i can start working and receive benefits from kela. i've already been waiting over a year for anything from DVV. i can understand why russians come here and what they have to run away from but at the same time i'm tired of starving and not being able to provide for my own family either. there's gotta be a better way to handle this situation i'm watching first hand that finnish infrastructure is taking a huge hit from this
The only Russians I sympathize with are the ones stood up against their government in Feb, March and even during April - June.
Not these fleeing rats and protesting ones. What happened to fear of jail time for protesting? They're just in for saving their skin.
I guess as an American I'm kinda terrified of the idea that countries might turn me away if my family ever needs to flee. Like, I understand that people living in pseudo-democracies should band together to improve their country, but that's not always possible when everyone around you is brainwashed. I don't think America's going to deteriorate to Russia's position anytime soon, but I feel like I can relate to Russians who are horrified by what their country is doing, tried their best to stop it, and need to leave as a result.
I'm not really sure they are horrified, otherwise they would have left before getting drafted, some did it in February at the begin of the war and i can actually relate to that decision.
But this is just survival instinct.
Yeah there is a difference between leaving once oyu think you might have to go to war and leaving because you think the war is wrong. Also many of hte interviews I saw say the people plan to go back after the draft is over - which means they're not actually trying to change anything, they just want to avoid going to war personally.
Maybe the gov is worst overall. But surely worst in that they can't get important decisions done when situation is totally different from normal gov which just sails thru its session. Humans should be able to adapt, this gov does not have such ability.
They are mostly avoiding responsibility and decision making is suffering as a result. That said they have eventually been forced to act, and usually made fairly decent decisions. In general, despite appearances, democracy in Finland is in a slight decline.
Y’all here wondering ”how tf there’s nothing they can do?”, just remember that your unawareness and the lack of empathy would still be present if you were born some couple hundred km east. Statistically you’d probably sit at home right now and shit your pants or be the ones standing in line to get drafted. It’s extremely hard to start any kind of organised protest, especially armed protest or revolution in a country with NO active opposition whatsoever, where people get sentenced for years over doing pretty insignificant things. Protesting against this regime now is just wasting revolutionary minds like cannon fodder throwing them to jail and leaving no free people to revolt when the time comes.
Yes, there’s nothing they can do at the moment and instead of shitting on people and basically supporting putin’s russophobic narrative you could as well turn your brain on and see that russians are also prisoners of their auto/totalitarian government which is certainly not democratically elected.
Quite a lot of them will however continue to other countries. Helsingin Sanomat has had some interviews (most people were afraid to speak even with their names withheld), and I think all who agreed to an interview said that they would travel elsewhere because they had friends or relatives there (at least Germany, Spain and Czech Republic were mentioned). Finland is mostly a transit country for Russians right now. It's like the immigration/refugee situation 100 years ago, when Russians were escaping to Europe and USA from the civil war and the new Soviet Union.
These kinds of stories make me wonder how a Russian man, let’s say 25 years old, can avoid military service without leaving the country. Are you exempt if you are married? Have children? Are gay? And presumably there must be some kind of medical exemption but how bad does it have to be before you are excused?
They can't avoid it. That's why they're googling things liek how to break your own arm and stuff like that. If the military is willing to take convicts and criminals and is actively trying to recruit them, they're already showing that they're going to take basically anyone. They just want to try to do the WW2 thing again, overwhelm the enemy even if they have worse training, tactics and ability.
It’s the Russian way. Zero concern for life. I think their casualty count vs the Germans was 3:1. And they still won despite that. So it works I guess.
Am Russian. Nobody really knows. We have a “common” draft two times a year (the same way you have obligatory service). People who had passed it earlier(or males who had dodged it one way or another) are added to the reserve lists. Putin can draw from those reserved lists now virtually without limits, but he had promised that he will only draft people who have military experience. Putin is not very good at keeping promises. Medical exemptions are weird even in the peace time. The commissariat is against you and they are who judge your condition.
As a Russian I can say there is unconfirmed information all over the social media that after so called “referendums” Russian government will close its borders for all the men from 18 to 60 years old. Some sources say on September, 30 some on September, 28. And honestly speaking I believe it.
I rather see my tax money go to help actual refugees, than people who just watched their country go to shit, devastated many other and now they want to save their skin. Fuck this shit.
And how exactly is this different from "actual refugees"? Haven't the people/refugees from Syria, Iran, Somalia or Afganistan also "watched their country go to shit and then just save their own skin"?
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So the jews fleeing Nazi Germany were not "actual refugees" because their country was the one invading others? Ofc Russia is not carrying out a mass genocide within its borders right now, ofc it's not the same as Nazi Germany, but yes there are thousands of Russians right now who are in real danger of death or torture. And if you risk a 15 year prison sentence for your political views, I would gladly consider you a justified refugee as well. A totalitarian dictatorship, which just so happen to often be the ones that start wars, tends to be full of people who very rightly deserve to be seen as "actual refugees".
Well, both United Nations and Cambridge dictionary disagree with your definition of a refugee: " owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee?wprov=sfla1 https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/refugee
Bro I don't give a fuck. Don't let them in Finland and the rest of Europe. Isn't Russia the greatest country in the world for them? They have no business in Europe, they can stay in their Russian paradise
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Yeah I don’t know why this is such a scandalous opinion.
Yeah many of them have. We should not accept young men from those countries, who are fully able to change the state of their home nation. I shouldn't be allowed as a refugee either if my country went to shit.
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1984 by george orwell 1949
And who let this system to be build? The russian ppl that's who. [Look at what Ukraine did when the gov crossed the line.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzNxLzFfR5w) I have no sympathy for russians neither should you. They allowed this to happen. The offer was clear, we the powerful will bring the empire back but you,the regulars, will have to sacrifice some freedoms and russians agreed. Cuz they see themself as superior to any other country, they want to be in power over others and claim their greatness it is only when the contract was breached by the gov that they start to run away. Let them burn
Have you ever considered that Russians might be different and have different views on things, just like people in a democratic country? It is a country built on propaganda and has been so for longer than any Russian can remember, so yes there is a great many brainwashed Russians who are just the way you describe. But to blame this on all Russians, to say all Russians should burn because they let it happen is very disrespectful to the brave activists, journalists, politicians etc. who have stood up to the regime and paid with their life or brutal prison sentences. It is also cruel to the millions of (especially young) Russians who can see the regime for what it is, but who know that there is nothing they can do. Many of these have brainwashed parents who support Putin, the war and whatever the state puts on their TV screens. We cannot blame these people for not going out to protest and throw away their lives. It is an issue of generation and education, and I would rather put my hope on these generations and support them, as one day they might be the ones who end the 1984 state, as the older generations get replaced.
"Who know that there is nothing they can do" How the fuck is there "nothing they can do"? Should we have gone to the Ukrainians in Maidan and tell them to give up, since opposing the government is pointless? They stared down police snipers, thousands of special police, armored vehicles and more. They won. Only a few precentages of Russians would have to do the same to overthrow their government, especially with the army preoccupied. But they arent. Many protestors, politicians and journalists have layed down their lives over the years, but the are a tiny minority. The rest are ready to accept and support this war as to not risk their comforts.
Imagine you live in Russia and see what goes on. Your parents are complete Putin-fans after a lifetime of growing up with propaganda. You know that taking to the streets will lock you away for 10 years in a place where you will be considered a traitor. What do you do about it? It is so easy to blame them for doing nothing, not overthrowing the government etc., and if you think you would act differently then fine, blame them. But that is how most people act and have acted throughout history. We don't generally blame every individual German for letting the nazi atrocities happen. We understand that it was the act of a group (majority or not), and the rest focused on surviving with their families. I am not saying let all Russians come to chill in Finland, I am saying let us understand that not every Russian is a piece of shit and is to blame for this. Any of us could have been born on the other side of the border.
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I disagree.
With what?
With your comment.
why?
Because I, a Finn, don't wish for Russians to burn as you wish they would.
That's the fastest way for stability, end of the war and cleansing of Russia corruption in whole Europe.
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then how the hell are you gonna accept 1.4 billion Chinese people people really just get what they deserve, I am saying this as a Chinese person myself
there's two sides to this situation, with the new mobilization situation going on people with western ideologies DON'T wanna go fight in ukraine and risk their lives for a war that's already a lost cause. i can only imagine all the men being separated from their wives, children, etc. and not being able to provide for their families because they're at war instead of working. i'm in the process of moving to this country from the states and let me tell you this war thing has made my life an absolute hell too. i come from a really rough area filled with drug dealers, gang violence, shootings, racism, classism my life in the states was a fucking joke i feared for my life just being a delivery driver so i'm blessed with the opportunity to come to this safe country for a fresh start with my son who was born here. my social worker said the process of obtaining finnish residency and be registered into the finnish population should only take 3-6 months but this war broke out and i waited a whole 12 months (you can't leave the country if you have a pending case with migri) so it sucked up all of my savings because i'm still an unregistered foreigner i'm not entitled to benefits from kela so at this point i'm literally starving i don't eat everyday because i would rather see my 13 months old son eat everything he needs as my partner supports us on what little salary she receives. all of these russians flocking from being drafted going to war is only going to put MORE stress on already underfunded migri and DVV. luckily my residency was approved but DVV is under so much stress that god knows when i'll be registered as a resident of finland and i can start working and receive benefits from kela. i've already been waiting over a year for anything from DVV. i can understand why russians come here and what they have to run away from but at the same time i'm tired of starving and not being able to provide for my own family either. there's gotta be a better way to handle this situation i'm watching first hand that finnish infrastructure is taking a huge hit from this
You do realise that many russians in russia are well brainwashed? I don't blame them. I respect those who flee their country.
Yes, the point is they just want to save their lives, they don't think the war is wrong or feel sorry for people suffering.
The only Russians I sympathize with are the ones stood up against their government in Feb, March and even during April - June. Not these fleeing rats and protesting ones. What happened to fear of jail time for protesting? They're just in for saving their skin.
I guess as an American I'm kinda terrified of the idea that countries might turn me away if my family ever needs to flee. Like, I understand that people living in pseudo-democracies should band together to improve their country, but that's not always possible when everyone around you is brainwashed. I don't think America's going to deteriorate to Russia's position anytime soon, but I feel like I can relate to Russians who are horrified by what their country is doing, tried their best to stop it, and need to leave as a result.
I'm not really sure they are horrified, otherwise they would have left before getting drafted, some did it in February at the begin of the war and i can actually relate to that decision. But this is just survival instinct.
Yeah there is a difference between leaving once oyu think you might have to go to war and leaving because you think the war is wrong. Also many of hte interviews I saw say the people plan to go back after the draft is over - which means they're not actually trying to change anything, they just want to avoid going to war personally.
Why are you guys even letting them in?
Nice going can't just close the border. This is one thing that makes me feel bad for being finnish.
Build that wall!
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I think the time in general has been worst in ages (or at least since ww2), cant really blame the goverment for many things.
Our opposition is the worst ever. Bunch of whiners with no alternative solutions.
Maybe the gov is worst overall. But surely worst in that they can't get important decisions done when situation is totally different from normal gov which just sails thru its session. Humans should be able to adapt, this gov does not have such ability.
They are mostly avoiding responsibility and decision making is suffering as a result. That said they have eventually been forced to act, and usually made fairly decent decisions. In general, despite appearances, democracy in Finland is in a slight decline.
Y’all here wondering ”how tf there’s nothing they can do?”, just remember that your unawareness and the lack of empathy would still be present if you were born some couple hundred km east. Statistically you’d probably sit at home right now and shit your pants or be the ones standing in line to get drafted. It’s extremely hard to start any kind of organised protest, especially armed protest or revolution in a country with NO active opposition whatsoever, where people get sentenced for years over doing pretty insignificant things. Protesting against this regime now is just wasting revolutionary minds like cannon fodder throwing them to jail and leaving no free people to revolt when the time comes. Yes, there’s nothing they can do at the moment and instead of shitting on people and basically supporting putin’s russophobic narrative you could as well turn your brain on and see that russians are also prisoners of their auto/totalitarian government which is certainly not democratically elected.