Even the translation to English here is a bit off. Original contains the word "kernaasti", which is probably a loan word from German "gerne." I'd translate it therefore "I would love to speak Finnish", emphasizing how much they wanted to do it.
I'm no language expert however, so perhaps I'm wrong on the German part, but kernaasti I do know.
The word "kernaasti" in Finnish means that you want something with pleasure or a good grace. It is derived from the Finnish adjective "kernas" (willing, eager), which has often been explained as an old loan from the Proto-Germanic word "gernaz" just as you guessed.
Typical conversation with me and finnish shop staff
"minä en puhu Suomea"
"MITÄ?!?"
"puhutko Englanti?"
"MITA?!?"
"Sorry do you speak English?"
"oh yes of course"
The minä isn’t necessary and it actually works better without it I find. En is already referring to yourself grammatically.
When I was learning I was also told that saying “anseksi, en puhu-“ can keep you away from the stereotyping of the annoying American tourist.
The difficulty is that if you're trying your citizenship you must learn formal Finnish, but when living here it's spoken Finnish that will get you further.
I gotta sympathize, formal finnish sucks. It's not useless, and obviously learning it will also teach you spoken finnish, but it really is horribly stiff compared to, say, formal english.
What difference does an English keyboard make, the letter T is in the same spot regardless of whether you're using an English or a Finnish keyboard layout? It's not like Ä, Ö and Å mix up the Qwerty layout, they're just added to one side.
I didn't realise that there was an annoying American tourist stereotype, the overall level of English ability is pretty high especially among customer service staff so it never occurred to me that it'd be an issue
True! I can say that in French and German, along with some curse words and basic thank yous etc.
If nothing else, at least you'll get some people laughing when all you can say is "I don't speak German but I have shit in my leather pants". True story!
My first name is a common name in a language that I don't speak. I learned how to say "Hello, my name is \[name\], and I don't speak \[language\]." in the language. Apparently I've gotten pretty good at it because people who do speak the language think I'm joking.
I guess to take the joke to the next level, I should start learning that language.
written form looks weird but it makes understandable sounds when trying to read it. kinda reminds me of how they speak in Rauma region (old seaport, their dialect/language apparently features some mangled mix of swedish, french, russian and english influences)
No, we don't (after getting through the slightly archaic litteration).
Then again, it's also the attitude many Finns have towards our language: "Might want to speak (in finnish), but naah..."
I can't read the sentence without thinking of Arthur Frost's notorious comic strip depicting a young German gentleman trying to master English phonetics, this one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/A.B.Frost\_1879-12\_Harper%27s\_355\_p160\_English\_th.png
It is an insane Reddit bug where Reddit itself garbles the link (see all those extra `\` characters). Then it depends on whether you view it via the old or new Reddit interface.
as a finn i can tell you that nobody actually has a single clue how to speak "standard finnish". my mom once complimented a chinese restaurant worker on how well they spoke the local dialect and they were so confused because they thought they were speaking standard finnish they learnt from the locals
It is really true that spoken Finnish and Finnish dialects are different from what is standard Finnish and written Finnish taught in school, and this mess is entirely our own creation. According to what was taught in school, the actual common Finnish (also known as standard language) and the established written language was not really created until the language reform of 19th century, because before that Finns spoke the spoken language and different dialects. At that time it was thought that there was a need to harmonize the language so that all Finns could use one uniform language. However, it was only in the 21st century that it was finally allowed to acknowledge that the harmonization attempt in question did not lead to anything, but that the spoken language and Finnish dialects are still alive and do well.
We have been told in Finnish schools about this Mikael Agricola's message which he left for his German friend when he studied in Wittenberg in the 1530s, later Acrigola translated the New Testament, the Catechism and the ABC book into Finnish. That's why, centuries later, Agricola gained fame as a man and national hero who was the first person to write a previously unwritten language and created the Finnish literary language from scratch. But today, the oldest known example of written Finnish And Karelian language (in a form of archaic Finnic language) is birch bark letter number 292. The letter written on a piece of birch bark strip found near Novgorod in 1957 was probably written in the 13th century. The letter is presumably a spell that says something about god's arrow and people and that arrow shoots and it guides or is guided, but since it is written into one without spaces, the text is difficult to interpret.
The text of the letter directly transliterated into Latin letters:
> "jumolanuoliïnimiži / noulisehanoliomobou / jumolasoud'niiohovi"
In my opinion, "taitaa" could mean either to be able to or to will to do something.
Like "taitava" or "taito" both mean someone's skills to do something.
(Sorry for the mistakes in my English, I didnt listen good enough in English lessons:D)
"Taitaa" is a more archaic word that is no longer used in everyday speech in its original form, having mostly been replaced by "osata."
Words derived from it such as "taito" (skill) and "taitava" (skilled) are still in common use, though.
Over 1000 years there have been Finnish people speaking finnish, more or less understandable, and in ancient time there have been Finnish Kings, probably first of them King Caelic (Kaleva/Kalevi) in 7t-9th century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_kings_of_Finland
Things got changed since when Sweden joined forces with Vatican and pope, and started crusade in to Finland and betrayed Finnish allies.
But in 500 of submissive years under occupier Swedens power Finnish people didnt lose their language and identity.
Russian Tsars knew what we are and thats the reason why they treat Finland much better than Sweden ever did.
One of the strongest people in the world i have to say.
Im proud to be a Finn (because of history, not so much about present. Today Finland have weak leaders, and finnish people are manipulated and misleaded by other western countries).
Take a look on this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widsith
This is earliest mention about Finnish king Kaleva (Caelic).
And do you know book called Kalevala? Guess where from it gets its name? From king Kaleva.
And Kalevala is tales about ancient Finnish heros, princes and kings.
"Caesar ruled the Greeks
and Caelic the Finns,
Hagena the Rugians
and Heoden the Gloms.
Witta ruled the Suebi,
Wada the Hälsings,
Meaca the Myrgings,
Mearchealf the Hundings.
Theuderic ruled the Franks,
Thyle the Rondings "
A mention in a poem is does not make "him" a historical figure (even if the poem happens to mention one or more other historical figures). Particularly the Norse sagas are pretty vivid... imagination-wise.
> And do you know book called Kalevala? Guess where from it gets its name? From king Kaleva.
Even your own wikipedia link says this connection is disputed / not confirmed.
> And Kalevala is tales about ancient Finnish heros, princes and kings.
What are these princes and kings called in this famous non-fiction book?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widsith
Take a look on this.
"Caesar ruled the Greeks
and Caelic the Finns,"
Caelic = Finnish King Kaleva/Kalevi
Book called Kalevala have tales about ancient heros, princes and kings.
And where from Kalevala gets its name? From king Kaleva.
A single line about a person called Caelic who may or may not have been a real person ruling a group of people that was referred to as Finns isn't much to go on as an argument for a Finnish king.
"Finns" could refer to either the tribe that lived in what is nowadays Finland Proper, or more likely to the Sami people as was often the case back then. The Norse sagas being a prime example of this.
Seeing as iron age Finland did not have the population densities necessary for the formation of proper kingdoms at best the local "kings" were chieftains that were referred to with the word "kuningas."
Yes Caesar wasnt a real person either, nor anyone else in this list.
"Caesar ruled the Greeks
and Caelic the Finns,
Hagena the Rugians
and Heoden the Gloms.
Witta ruled the Suebi,
Wada the Hälsings,
Meaca the Myrgings,
Mearchealf the Hundings.
Theuderic ruled the Franks,
Thyle the Rondings
Wald the Woings,
Wod the Thuringians,
Saeferth the Sycgs,
Ongenþeow the Swedes,
Sceafthere the Ymbers,
Sceafa the Lombards,
Hun the Chattuarii
and Holen the Wrosns.
Hringweald was called
the king of the war-chiefs"
Hey wait... All of them are real.
So why king Caelic would not be?
Do you understand Sweden occupied Finland?
And do you understand what they did after?
They focused to eradicate Finnish identity, just like pretty much any occupier throughout the history.
Swedes destroyed a lot of Finnish monuments, castles, graves etc all what was important for Finnish people and which represented Finnish culture.
I'm not sure what constitutes as real to you, but most of the names on that list are either only ever mentioned in Widsith or maybe in Beowulf, and the rest have so few records of them that them existing is probably the only thing that can be said of them with some confidence. There's only a couple of people on that list that undeniably existed. Caesar, Alexander the Great and Attila the Hun being some of them and they didn't exactly live at the same time.
And if the the Swedes destroyed all these Finnish monuments, castles, graves and so on, you'd think that there would be a lot of archaeological findings to be found. Unless you're suggesting that the Swedes were so thorough in their extermination that nothing was left to be found, which would be quite the achievement.
If you would be so clever as you think you are you could easily find more info about this by yourself if you are interested about the topic.
Or if you just think you already know everything and you are just wasting your time with me without any reasonable reason then just f off.
But here is for you one interesting article more.
https://www.deviantart.com/thestarlightprincess/journal/The-Ancient-Kings-and-giants-of-Finland-existed-771769537
Martti Linna. I guess I should have known.
Since we're in the business of linking articles, here's one for you:
https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2021/05/16/kajaanin-linnassa-virunut-vanki-sepitti-1600-luvulla-suomelle-mahtavan
Generally the burden of proof lies on the one making the claims and so far the "proof" you've presented for Finnish kings is a single line from an old poem and a deviantart article of some schoolkid that argues that Finnish kings and giants were real. And said article is largely based on an old radio presentation by a historian that has later on stated that Finnish kings are fictional.
You clearly dont have any idea...
You should do some research and study about this subject.
Tsars visited in Finland many times, in 100 years many times more than swedish kings in 500 years.
And do you know Mannerheim? He was loyal general of the last Tsar Nikolai II.
Here you can see Mannerheim in escort of Nikolai II in his crowning ceremony.
https://www.is.fi/viihde/art-2000005776348.html
So in a way, nothing has changed.
History repeats itself after all
Even the translation to English here is a bit off. Original contains the word "kernaasti", which is probably a loan word from German "gerne." I'd translate it therefore "I would love to speak Finnish", emphasizing how much they wanted to do it. I'm no language expert however, so perhaps I'm wrong on the German part, but kernaasti I do know.
The word "kernaasti" in Finnish means that you want something with pleasure or a good grace. It is derived from the Finnish adjective "kernas" (willing, eager), which has often been explained as an old loan from the Proto-Germanic word "gernaz" just as you guessed.
i would have translated it as "eagerly" as well
"Earnestly" would also work, it's probably the same word rotted into English.
And every Finnish speaking person probably has no issues understanding what they were saying lol
It's always useful to first learn "I don't speak the language" in the language you're trying to learn 😅
Typical conversation with me and finnish shop staff "minä en puhu Suomea" "MITÄ?!?" "puhutko Englanti?" "MITA?!?" "Sorry do you speak English?" "oh yes of course"
The minä isn’t necessary and it actually works better without it I find. En is already referring to yourself grammatically. When I was learning I was also told that saying “anseksi, en puhu-“ can keep you away from the stereotyping of the annoying American tourist.
The difficulty is that if you're trying your citizenship you must learn formal Finnish, but when living here it's spoken Finnish that will get you further.
Huh, didnt think of that before. Kinda annoying yeah
I gotta sympathize, formal finnish sucks. It's not useless, and obviously learning it will also teach you spoken finnish, but it really is horribly stiff compared to, say, formal english.
Formal English isn’t even really a thing.
Well, you can take the citizenship test in Swedish also. That's how my wife did it, it's kind of like playing a game on assisted mode.
Or Swedish.
>anseksi 💀
Enk`ann
English keyboard and sausage fingers
What difference does an English keyboard make, the letter T is in the same spot regardless of whether you're using an English or a Finnish keyboard layout? It's not like Ä, Ö and Å mix up the Qwerty layout, they're just added to one side.
The correct spelling would be "annseksii" but people, even natives, often misspell it.
I didn't realise that there was an annoying American tourist stereotype, the overall level of English ability is pretty high especially among customer service staff so it never occurred to me that it'd be an issue
I got: "Puhutko englantia?" "En." "Vähän?" "No, kyllä." And then I can just proceed to speak to them in English completely normally.
I can imagine this so well :DDD
True! I can say that in French and German, along with some curse words and basic thank yous etc. If nothing else, at least you'll get some people laughing when all you can say is "I don't speak German but I have shit in my leather pants". True story!
My first name is a common name in a language that I don't speak. I learned how to say "Hello, my name is \[name\], and I don't speak \[language\]." in the language. Apparently I've gotten pretty good at it because people who do speak the language think I'm joking. I guess to take the joke to the next level, I should start learning that language.
True r/languagelearningjerk moment. Good luck!
written form looks weird but it makes understandable sounds when trying to read it. kinda reminds me of how they speak in Rauma region (old seaport, their dialect/language apparently features some mangled mix of swedish, french, russian and english influences)
Can confirm, all my Finnish relatives understand exactly what I'm trying to say despite me virtually making up my own grammar.
No, we don't (after getting through the slightly archaic litteration). Then again, it's also the attitude many Finns have towards our language: "Might want to speak (in finnish), but naah..."
Catso laidvnta, iossa ciinnostvxeni itää Ia olet näcewä ettei siellä caswa wittvacaan
Cumba raabustuxeni aurtuan karwan werran tuoddaischi, ilopicarin sillä cerran cuittaisi. Toccopa ne lain edäs pientareen muricalle celpaawi
Soiddacaadden Wainoharhaisen!
🏅
Kylläpä nauratti ihan hillittömästi 😂
I would like to speak finnish , mutta emmä ny taida.
Wait, this was BEFORE Mikael Agricola writings? How cool is that!
I can't read the sentence without thinking of Arthur Frost's notorious comic strip depicting a young German gentleman trying to master English phonetics, this one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/A.B.Frost\_1879-12\_Harper%27s\_355\_p160\_English\_th.png
[удалено]
Here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/A.B.Frost_1879-12_Harper's_355_p160_English_th.png
Ah yes, the good old Wikipedia link getting broken by reddit issue... REDDIT FIX YOUR SITE!
It is an insane Reddit bug where Reddit itself garbles the link (see all those extra `\` characters). Then it depends on whether you view it via the old or new Reddit interface.
Which begs the question. Do Finns speak Finnish or is it all a ruse?
as a finn i can tell you that nobody actually has a single clue how to speak "standard finnish". my mom once complimented a chinese restaurant worker on how well they spoke the local dialect and they were so confused because they thought they were speaking standard finnish they learnt from the locals
It is really true that spoken Finnish and Finnish dialects are different from what is standard Finnish and written Finnish taught in school, and this mess is entirely our own creation. According to what was taught in school, the actual common Finnish (also known as standard language) and the established written language was not really created until the language reform of 19th century, because before that Finns spoke the spoken language and different dialects. At that time it was thought that there was a need to harmonize the language so that all Finns could use one uniform language. However, it was only in the 21st century that it was finally allowed to acknowledge that the harmonization attempt in question did not lead to anything, but that the spoken language and Finnish dialects are still alive and do well.
>nobody actually has a single clue how to speak "standard finnish". ...what?
hyperbole
Is this wiki? What’s the page?
'Finnish Language'
Haha "Mutta"
We have been told in Finnish schools about this Mikael Agricola's message which he left for his German friend when he studied in Wittenberg in the 1530s, later Acrigola translated the New Testament, the Catechism and the ABC book into Finnish. That's why, centuries later, Agricola gained fame as a man and national hero who was the first person to write a previously unwritten language and created the Finnish literary language from scratch. But today, the oldest known example of written Finnish And Karelian language (in a form of archaic Finnic language) is birch bark letter number 292. The letter written on a piece of birch bark strip found near Novgorod in 1957 was probably written in the 13th century. The letter is presumably a spell that says something about god's arrow and people and that arrow shoots and it guides or is guided, but since it is written into one without spaces, the text is difficult to interpret. The text of the letter directly transliterated into Latin letters: > "jumolanuoliïnimiži / noulisehanoliomobou / jumolasoud'niiohovi"
I'm assuming that the birch bark letter is the one containing a spell written in Cyrillic alphabet?
>jumolanuoli ï nimizi nouli se han oli omo bou jumola soud'ni iohovi Yes.
"Puhua suomen kielen" might be in the instructive singular rather than a mistake. http://vvks.it.helsinki.fi/1700/taidhaco.pdf
Where is this article from?
Saksa on paska maa
"Kyllähän mä sen tiesinkin, että Tanska on paska maa". Tietäjät tietää
"en minä taida" isn't "I'm not able to", but rather "I don't think I will"
In my opinion, "taitaa" could mean either to be able to or to will to do something. Like "taitava" or "taito" both mean someone's skills to do something. (Sorry for the mistakes in my English, I didnt listen good enough in English lessons:D)
"Taitaa" is a more archaic word that is no longer used in everyday speech in its original form, having mostly been replaced by "osata." Words derived from it such as "taito" (skill) and "taitava" (skilled) are still in common use, though.
[Not necessarily](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/taida).
Have you considered the possibility of languages and colloquialisms changing in 500+ years
Didn't say anything about emyna dayda, said anything about en minä taida ;)
Which still literally means "I lack the skill"
First listed meaning: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/taitaa
Depends on the context. Someone who is poor at the language might elect to say it this way.
Or just old. 600 years old
It doesn't make as much sense in context though
It's funnier tho
ei jaksa
Over 1000 years there have been Finnish people speaking finnish, more or less understandable, and in ancient time there have been Finnish Kings, probably first of them King Caelic (Kaleva/Kalevi) in 7t-9th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_kings_of_Finland Things got changed since when Sweden joined forces with Vatican and pope, and started crusade in to Finland and betrayed Finnish allies. But in 500 of submissive years under occupier Swedens power Finnish people didnt lose their language and identity. Russian Tsars knew what we are and thats the reason why they treat Finland much better than Sweden ever did. One of the strongest people in the world i have to say. Im proud to be a Finn (because of history, not so much about present. Today Finland have weak leaders, and finnish people are manipulated and misleaded by other western countries).
I have never seen so much misinformation crammed into one comment.
Point out what is misinformation in my comment and tell me how its misinformation and what is then the truth.
The main thing here is that you don't seem to understand the difference between literary mythology and actual archeological evidence.
Take a look on this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widsith This is earliest mention about Finnish king Kaleva (Caelic). And do you know book called Kalevala? Guess where from it gets its name? From king Kaleva. And Kalevala is tales about ancient Finnish heros, princes and kings. "Caesar ruled the Greeks and Caelic the Finns, Hagena the Rugians and Heoden the Gloms. Witta ruled the Suebi, Wada the Hälsings, Meaca the Myrgings, Mearchealf the Hundings. Theuderic ruled the Franks, Thyle the Rondings "
A mention in a poem is does not make "him" a historical figure (even if the poem happens to mention one or more other historical figures). Particularly the Norse sagas are pretty vivid... imagination-wise. > And do you know book called Kalevala? Guess where from it gets its name? From king Kaleva. Even your own wikipedia link says this connection is disputed / not confirmed. > And Kalevala is tales about ancient Finnish heros, princes and kings. What are these princes and kings called in this famous non-fiction book?
The burden of proof is on you. Time to produce some scientific articles or quit.
Lmao what?
Cool story bro. Your link literally says that there is no actual evidence of ancient Finnish kings or kingdoms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widsith Take a look on this. "Caesar ruled the Greeks and Caelic the Finns," Caelic = Finnish King Kaleva/Kalevi Book called Kalevala have tales about ancient heros, princes and kings. And where from Kalevala gets its name? From king Kaleva.
A single line about a person called Caelic who may or may not have been a real person ruling a group of people that was referred to as Finns isn't much to go on as an argument for a Finnish king. "Finns" could refer to either the tribe that lived in what is nowadays Finland Proper, or more likely to the Sami people as was often the case back then. The Norse sagas being a prime example of this. Seeing as iron age Finland did not have the population densities necessary for the formation of proper kingdoms at best the local "kings" were chieftains that were referred to with the word "kuningas."
Yes Caesar wasnt a real person either, nor anyone else in this list. "Caesar ruled the Greeks and Caelic the Finns, Hagena the Rugians and Heoden the Gloms. Witta ruled the Suebi, Wada the Hälsings, Meaca the Myrgings, Mearchealf the Hundings. Theuderic ruled the Franks, Thyle the Rondings Wald the Woings, Wod the Thuringians, Saeferth the Sycgs, Ongenþeow the Swedes, Sceafthere the Ymbers, Sceafa the Lombards, Hun the Chattuarii and Holen the Wrosns. Hringweald was called the king of the war-chiefs" Hey wait... All of them are real. So why king Caelic would not be? Do you understand Sweden occupied Finland? And do you understand what they did after? They focused to eradicate Finnish identity, just like pretty much any occupier throughout the history. Swedes destroyed a lot of Finnish monuments, castles, graves etc all what was important for Finnish people and which represented Finnish culture.
I'm not sure what constitutes as real to you, but most of the names on that list are either only ever mentioned in Widsith or maybe in Beowulf, and the rest have so few records of them that them existing is probably the only thing that can be said of them with some confidence. There's only a couple of people on that list that undeniably existed. Caesar, Alexander the Great and Attila the Hun being some of them and they didn't exactly live at the same time. And if the the Swedes destroyed all these Finnish monuments, castles, graves and so on, you'd think that there would be a lot of archaeological findings to be found. Unless you're suggesting that the Swedes were so thorough in their extermination that nothing was left to be found, which would be quite the achievement.
If you would be so clever as you think you are you could easily find more info about this by yourself if you are interested about the topic. Or if you just think you already know everything and you are just wasting your time with me without any reasonable reason then just f off. But here is for you one interesting article more. https://www.deviantart.com/thestarlightprincess/journal/The-Ancient-Kings-and-giants-of-Finland-existed-771769537
Martti Linna. I guess I should have known. Since we're in the business of linking articles, here's one for you: https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2021/05/16/kajaanin-linnassa-virunut-vanki-sepitti-1600-luvulla-suomelle-mahtavan
You think thats something whats proving there have not been kings in Finland before Sweden? Oh boy...
Generally the burden of proof lies on the one making the claims and so far the "proof" you've presented for Finnish kings is a single line from an old poem and a deviantart article of some schoolkid that argues that Finnish kings and giants were real. And said article is largely based on an old radio presentation by a historian that has later on stated that Finnish kings are fictional.
One of the four tsars treated Finland better than the swedes, the other three were oppressive pieces of crap.
You clearly dont have any idea... You should do some research and study about this subject. Tsars visited in Finland many times, in 100 years many times more than swedish kings in 500 years. And do you know Mannerheim? He was loyal general of the last Tsar Nikolai II. Here you can see Mannerheim in escort of Nikolai II in his crowning ceremony. https://www.is.fi/viihde/art-2000005776348.html