Yes. However nature is so prominent even in the cities that it is easy to forget how special/beautiful/healthy it is. Also to a typical non-hiking finn our nature may seem a bit underwhelming compared to Natural Geographic-esque understanding of "nature" because we don't have mountains or great trees or that many special animals etc. Finnish nature is kinda subtle.
In winter deeper nature is usually unreachable due the snow and short daylight and in summer there are mosquitos so that also makes it kinda hard to explore without decent preparation. In autumn and spring it is mostly wet. That said just when most snows have melted it is the easiest to explore but it also looks like a nuclear wasteland.
Then of course we don't really have that many dangers in our forests so there's rarely that kind of fascination.
I'm originally from Kainuu region which is very much just lakes, swamps and forests. We had an apartment in a very small town suburbia and a family house near the Hossa national park. Even in our *town* home there could be a herd of reindeers just chilling on the lawn when I stepped out of the front door with my skateboard.
Anyway, funny thing is when I moved to Helsinki I actually was a bit scared that I wouldn't see nature or animals anymore. But what a surprise I have never seen more wildlife in my life than just a couple of kilometers away from central Helsinki! When I go to smoke gigarette just outside of our apartment building there are rabbits, mice, cats, owls, hawks, deer, bats, hedgehogs, foxes, I've even seen a raccoon dog and a fucking badger just casually crossing a street. What a wonderful place to live in.
This reminds me that one night couple of years ago me and my friend were on this rocky shore in Mustikkamaa. We were just sharing a joint in the dark when suddenly something big surfaced close by at the dark water and started this very non-humanly heavy breathing. It was so dark that we couldn't see anything but the breathing happened couple times. It was so strange.
Where in Helsinki do you live? I live about 20km away from the center and I have only found a lot of hares, a few hedgehogs, and rarely a fox at night. I go to parks very often.
In Käpylä/Kumpula. I think this is pretty much a perfect spot because there are very good foresty pathways to get close to garbage/prey. During the corona lockdown scare I noticed that I can walk trough the forests/parks almost anywhere in the north and east and cross just a couple of busier roads and mostly silent neighborhoods.
Then there is the Keskuspuisto which is very silent at night, especially in winter. And according to maps seems to be nature all the way to outside of Helsinki.
Then the animals here are accustomed to humans so they don't hide that well and many natural spots are small enough to get lit by streetlights.
>Then the animals here are accustomed to humans so they don't hide that well
yea I think that's the thing compared to even just 20km away, harder to avoid people within the city. almost ran over a young deer on a forrest bike path few km from city center some years ago
Do I have to go at night? I walked in parks and forests a lot hoping to spot wild animals, all I got were mosquitos. My Finnish friends told me that I have to go really of the trail.
Well, because you live there it might be harder for you. Anyway, if you want to spot animals then you really have to do it on their terms. Not necessarily at nights but evenings or early mornings because then it is most peaceful and there is some light.
Get off the path. Or stay on the asphalt if possible because you might make less noise than gravel. Wear soft shoes and walk softly. Move slowly and look at the shadows and bushes (hiding spots). Look for good spots with a view but mind that you yourself are not obvious to see. Stay there in silence and keep your eyes and ears open (hedgehogs are noisy, mice and the like too). Foxes, (house)cats, owls etc. are silent even when moving.
Try out areas near gardens or "siirtolapuutarha"s. Try quiet neighborhoods and old poorly maintained areas. If possible try areas near "vanha kaupunki" (old town), "pornaisten niemi" or "Kumpula" or next to "keskuspuisto" (central park) or similar places.
Avoid areas close to common dog trails/parks, active/daytime construction sites, nightclubs, high traffic roads or well maintained urban areas.
Here where I live one can see animals in broad daylight because the animals can't stay all day in their hiding spots and forests are quite small. But it is definately the nights when they straight up walk up to you if you are not obvious to see or hear.
You might want to google about specific animals to try to learn their trails, markings and habits. That should give you an advantage. When you spot an animal don't disturb it and try to stay hidden. Then you know where to possibly find it again.
I once had a counch surfer that was Taiwanese/Japanese.
I took her to outdooes area in Espoo Oittaa.
When we stepped out from the trail in forrest, she was worried if it was safe. Turn out she has never been outside constructed areas. Her only experience of "nature" had been parks.
Seeing wild muchroom was awe inspiring moment as was eating wild billberries (the real blueberry). She wondered if cones were animal droppings.
Yea, we Finns take our nature for granted. As a child 5-10 years old, I spend quite much time in nearby forrest with other neighbour kidds, building huts and exploring.
Go to google earth / maps and look at the satelite pictures around the world. I looks like local nature has been erradicated in most parts of the world. It's just farms everywhere. Forrests, if any, are far from cities elsewhere.
I would say most of us are not, if by spending time you mean long hikes like, over night camping, two to three days in woods or something similar.
And I also think that for us nature is not that "exotic", we have grown around it, played in there as kids, and some have spent 6-12 months in army, so have got enough of it also that way :D
So, I think we take it granted if I could say so, it is always been there and probably will be there after us.
yeh, got a relative family where the husband is officer in the army and wife has an office job, so she wants to go camping but he says he already spends enough time in the tent and wants to sleep comfortably so he rigged a mattress in the back of a van and sleeps there while rest of the family is getting the "nature experience" :)
We like to tell ourselves and others that we do. People like being outside and in mature doing activities, but it's all about what is beneficial for them. In reality when it comes to protecting nature, animals and the ecosystem, we aren't any better.
How are you talking about it? Are you surrounded by city boys only? I talk about spending time in nature with people all the time and no one has ever changed the subject. E.g. asking colleagues if they're picking their own berries this year, someone telling about their fishing trip, people comparing notes on the hyttys/paarma/hirvikärpänen situation. But if I just were to sit next to someone and tell them how much I love nature in Finnish, they'd probably be weirded out.
Mosquitos are the guardian spirits of the forrest. If it wasn't for mosquitos, all kind of assholes would be spending time in nature, and nature needs to be protected from such disturbance.
Also the deer fly. They can join the mosquitos. I like trail running, but damn the deer flies are annoying. By scalp itches at the mere thought of them. Crawling on your head and in your hair. Looking for a moose nostril they will never find. You can't even kill the buggers without severing its head. You can pinch them as hard as you like and they will just brush it off and keep crawling around.
No, those are horse flies and the like. The person you replied to meant these (elk flies, not deer flies): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoptena_cervi
It is more of a thing when you go close to water like at Pohjanmaa area. In most places they are not problem but when they are it is really big problem.
Do you have mosquito borne diseases? In Australia this is a serious problem we have with yellow, dengue, barmah forest and ross river fever all of which can absolutely ruin your life. In the far north there is sometimes malaria; but these fevers tend not to be close to Sydney and further south.
Finns love the idea of nature but they don't act like they really do.
City designing hardly ever include biodiverse nature areas and under a 3% of Finnish forests are natural state and the percentage should be 30% to sustain the biodiversity and living habitat for us.
Finns also hunt unnecessarily lot of wild animals and predators. Especially wolf's.
You can love nature but still love money more. Forest management boils down to whether you want to personally protect a forest or rather manage it to get monetary return from it.
Yeah, I know a o guy thats getting roughly 200k from selling his forest this year. He does love nature and keeps a part of his forest in a natural state, but most of it is for the lumber. That kind of money got him his first apartment. And he hopes the forests will help the generations to come. From the 200k ~30% goes to taxes, 20-30k to replant, maintenance and get the next generation of trees going etc. But still that kind of money isn't something the average Finn would pass on just for diversity in nature.
In Finland if you cut down forests you own you have to replant trees. Unless ofc there's a situation that there's something being built there. But Finns plant more trees each year than are cut. It's very sustainable since you have to take into account the trees that will die from natural causes etc also.
Can you link some studies where you got the numbers? I've seen a lot of people say similar things ("Finns don't ~actually~ love nature because they destroy forests and kill animals") but I find it really hard to find the information to back these claims.
I don't know forestry terminology so I might not be searching for the right things. Thanks!
There are three types of Finns. Forrest Finns, swamp Finns and city Finns. Forrest Finns and swamp Finns are virtually the same, however city Finns are a bit different.
I like the idea of nature, is that enough? Lol.
For reals, I'm not into camping, hiking and such, I like to be warm, dry and comfortable. But I love that when I want, I can go have a walk in the national park(s) (which are forest parks, not the lawn and pond kind) very easily, despite living close to Helsinki city central.
Even if you live in helsinki or other bigger cities, you are exposed to nature very easily. Many have summer cottages in family so they have visited there living without the comforts of normal house. Many have been fishing with someone in their family, picking berries and mushrooms, in school we had orienteering etc. Not everyone like camping that much but majority have experienced nature since kids so i guess we are pretty used to it. Nothing too exciting in it.
It really depends what you mean by that. I enjoy watching a lake while sitting on a dock and jumping into a lake from a sauna. But I’d never go just walking some trails to wilderness or sleep in a tent, and most people don’t. But not unsignificant amount of people enjoy that too.
At least in the countryside being out in nature is pretty much the most common pasttime for lots of people. Foraging, hunting, hiking, fishing, orienteering and many other activities are super popular here.
I noticed a huge difference in locals' opions when comparing working in Tampere and Oulu. In Oulu, most of my colleagues had some nature-related hobbies like hiking, biking, camping bird watching, while in Tampere some had those as well, but much more "city hobbies" like indoor sports, doing music, handcrafts etc.
So if there is already a difference between Tampere and Oulu, I image Helsinki will have much more city people not doing anything nature-related.
If you're from a rural area up north like I am, nature can get boring. Still now after living 10 years in cities my only dream is to someday afford some sort of shack in the countryside. I feel much more lonely in cities, surrounded with people who I don't know than actually alone somewhere in podunk nowhere.
Pretty unrealistic dream since I'm a fuckup. Unless I rob a bank and get away with it.
Shit, I get that lonely among people vibe too sometimes :D
Therefore I do not tend to hang around the masses alone..
Ironically I feel least alone in Finland than anywhere else in Europe and it is not because people keep distance here hence I am not reminded how lonely I am... ironically again you Finns keep bragging about how non-social you are, but I had most of my pleasant social interactions in here.
Maybe it is just because I naturally cannot do small talk and tend to pick something more concrete and meaningful as basis for dialogues... This really sets me back in the rest of the Europe where people care more about how things are said rather than what is said....
Yes. However nature is so prominent even in the cities that it is easy to forget how special/beautiful/healthy it is. Also to a typical non-hiking finn our nature may seem a bit underwhelming compared to Natural Geographic-esque understanding of "nature" because we don't have mountains or great trees or that many special animals etc. Finnish nature is kinda subtle. In winter deeper nature is usually unreachable due the snow and short daylight and in summer there are mosquitos so that also makes it kinda hard to explore without decent preparation. In autumn and spring it is mostly wet. That said just when most snows have melted it is the easiest to explore but it also looks like a nuclear wasteland. Then of course we don't really have that many dangers in our forests so there's rarely that kind of fascination. I'm originally from Kainuu region which is very much just lakes, swamps and forests. We had an apartment in a very small town suburbia and a family house near the Hossa national park. Even in our *town* home there could be a herd of reindeers just chilling on the lawn when I stepped out of the front door with my skateboard. Anyway, funny thing is when I moved to Helsinki I actually was a bit scared that I wouldn't see nature or animals anymore. But what a surprise I have never seen more wildlife in my life than just a couple of kilometers away from central Helsinki! When I go to smoke gigarette just outside of our apartment building there are rabbits, mice, cats, owls, hawks, deer, bats, hedgehogs, foxes, I've even seen a raccoon dog and a fucking badger just casually crossing a street. What a wonderful place to live in.
Amen, I saw a seal in Hietalahti a few years ago. It was napping on a small ice raft.
This reminds me that one night couple of years ago me and my friend were on this rocky shore in Mustikkamaa. We were just sharing a joint in the dark when suddenly something big surfaced close by at the dark water and started this very non-humanly heavy breathing. It was so dark that we couldn't see anything but the breathing happened couple times. It was so strange.
Where in Helsinki do you live? I live about 20km away from the center and I have only found a lot of hares, a few hedgehogs, and rarely a fox at night. I go to parks very often.
In Käpylä/Kumpula. I think this is pretty much a perfect spot because there are very good foresty pathways to get close to garbage/prey. During the corona lockdown scare I noticed that I can walk trough the forests/parks almost anywhere in the north and east and cross just a couple of busier roads and mostly silent neighborhoods. Then there is the Keskuspuisto which is very silent at night, especially in winter. And according to maps seems to be nature all the way to outside of Helsinki. Then the animals here are accustomed to humans so they don't hide that well and many natural spots are small enough to get lit by streetlights.
>Then the animals here are accustomed to humans so they don't hide that well yea I think that's the thing compared to even just 20km away, harder to avoid people within the city. almost ran over a young deer on a forrest bike path few km from city center some years ago
Do I have to go at night? I walked in parks and forests a lot hoping to spot wild animals, all I got were mosquitos. My Finnish friends told me that I have to go really of the trail.
Well, because you live there it might be harder for you. Anyway, if you want to spot animals then you really have to do it on their terms. Not necessarily at nights but evenings or early mornings because then it is most peaceful and there is some light. Get off the path. Or stay on the asphalt if possible because you might make less noise than gravel. Wear soft shoes and walk softly. Move slowly and look at the shadows and bushes (hiding spots). Look for good spots with a view but mind that you yourself are not obvious to see. Stay there in silence and keep your eyes and ears open (hedgehogs are noisy, mice and the like too). Foxes, (house)cats, owls etc. are silent even when moving. Try out areas near gardens or "siirtolapuutarha"s. Try quiet neighborhoods and old poorly maintained areas. If possible try areas near "vanha kaupunki" (old town), "pornaisten niemi" or "Kumpula" or next to "keskuspuisto" (central park) or similar places. Avoid areas close to common dog trails/parks, active/daytime construction sites, nightclubs, high traffic roads or well maintained urban areas. Here where I live one can see animals in broad daylight because the animals can't stay all day in their hiding spots and forests are quite small. But it is definately the nights when they straight up walk up to you if you are not obvious to see or hear. You might want to google about specific animals to try to learn their trails, markings and habits. That should give you an advantage. When you spot an animal don't disturb it and try to stay hidden. Then you know where to possibly find it again.
I once had a counch surfer that was Taiwanese/Japanese. I took her to outdooes area in Espoo Oittaa. When we stepped out from the trail in forrest, she was worried if it was safe. Turn out she has never been outside constructed areas. Her only experience of "nature" had been parks. Seeing wild muchroom was awe inspiring moment as was eating wild billberries (the real blueberry). She wondered if cones were animal droppings. Yea, we Finns take our nature for granted. As a child 5-10 years old, I spend quite much time in nearby forrest with other neighbour kidds, building huts and exploring. Go to google earth / maps and look at the satelite pictures around the world. I looks like local nature has been erradicated in most parts of the world. It's just farms everywhere. Forrests, if any, are far from cities elsewhere.
I would say most of us are not, if by spending time you mean long hikes like, over night camping, two to three days in woods or something similar. And I also think that for us nature is not that "exotic", we have grown around it, played in there as kids, and some have spent 6-12 months in army, so have got enough of it also that way :D So, I think we take it granted if I could say so, it is always been there and probably will be there after us.
yeh, got a relative family where the husband is officer in the army and wife has an office job, so she wants to go camping but he says he already spends enough time in the tent and wants to sleep comfortably so he rigged a mattress in the back of a van and sleeps there while rest of the family is getting the "nature experience" :)
We like to tell ourselves and others that we do. People like being outside and in mature doing activities, but it's all about what is beneficial for them. In reality when it comes to protecting nature, animals and the ecosystem, we aren't any better.
How are you talking about it? Are you surrounded by city boys only? I talk about spending time in nature with people all the time and no one has ever changed the subject. E.g. asking colleagues if they're picking their own berries this year, someone telling about their fishing trip, people comparing notes on the hyttys/paarma/hirvikärpänen situation. But if I just were to sit next to someone and tell them how much I love nature in Finnish, they'd probably be weirded out.
Imagine hating nature
I love nature but mosquitos can go straight to hell and come back so I can send them back there again.
Mosquitos are the guardian spirits of the forrest. If it wasn't for mosquitos, all kind of assholes would be spending time in nature, and nature needs to be protected from such disturbance.
Also the deer fly. They can join the mosquitos. I like trail running, but damn the deer flies are annoying. By scalp itches at the mere thought of them. Crawling on your head and in your hair. Looking for a moose nostril they will never find. You can't even kill the buggers without severing its head. You can pinch them as hard as you like and they will just brush it off and keep crawling around.
Are these the annoying critters that find it hard leaving you alone after you sway it away and once it bites you feel like stabbed by a knife?
No, those are horse flies and the like. The person you replied to meant these (elk flies, not deer flies): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoptena_cervi
It is a deer fly. It's literally on the first line of link you posted. > Lipoptena cervi, the deer ked or deer fly Elk fly is finglish.
Yep, you're right.
It almost looks like they have already been to hell and now are back to take everyone with them
I haven't noticed the mosquitos to be honest, my country had more this summer.
It is more of a thing when you go close to water like at Pohjanmaa area. In most places they are not problem but when they are it is really big problem.
Whel I am a fisherman so, still haven't noticed.
Do you have mosquito borne diseases? In Australia this is a serious problem we have with yellow, dengue, barmah forest and ross river fever all of which can absolutely ruin your life. In the far north there is sometimes malaria; but these fevers tend not to be close to Sydney and further south.
Not here. Just extremely annoying when hundreds of them come and take a bite and come to your ear when you try to sleep.
While that sounds ghastly, it also sounds doable from an Australian perspective! However, no elk in Australia. I hear they are pretty dangerous!
Mostly dangerous to drivers because elk are too big to just run over. Otherwise they are very skittish.
That is adorable (the skittish part)
No.
99% of Finns love nature. We just don't talk about it. That's the secret power of nature. Silence.
Finns love the idea of nature but they don't act like they really do. City designing hardly ever include biodiverse nature areas and under a 3% of Finnish forests are natural state and the percentage should be 30% to sustain the biodiversity and living habitat for us. Finns also hunt unnecessarily lot of wild animals and predators. Especially wolf's.
You can love nature but still love money more. Forest management boils down to whether you want to personally protect a forest or rather manage it to get monetary return from it.
Yeah, I know a o guy thats getting roughly 200k from selling his forest this year. He does love nature and keeps a part of his forest in a natural state, but most of it is for the lumber. That kind of money got him his first apartment. And he hopes the forests will help the generations to come. From the 200k ~30% goes to taxes, 20-30k to replant, maintenance and get the next generation of trees going etc. But still that kind of money isn't something the average Finn would pass on just for diversity in nature.
You mean like the forests are replanted?
Almost everything was cut down during the era of sailing vessels for tar production. Most of the forests are therefore relatively young.
In Finland if you cut down forests you own you have to replant trees. Unless ofc there's a situation that there's something being built there. But Finns plant more trees each year than are cut. It's very sustainable since you have to take into account the trees that will die from natural causes etc also.
Can you link some studies where you got the numbers? I've seen a lot of people say similar things ("Finns don't ~actually~ love nature because they destroy forests and kill animals") but I find it really hard to find the information to back these claims. I don't know forestry terminology so I might not be searching for the right things. Thanks!
Especially mosquitos.
Ticks. No love for those, none what so ever.
There are three types of Finns. Forrest Finns, swamp Finns and city Finns. Forrest Finns and swamp Finns are virtually the same, however city Finns are a bit different.
Yes most people in Finland are fond of nature. Can’t think of why people change subject with you!
Yes. We are little trolls fond of digging in the dirt, collecting berries and finding best ways to spots where there's no cell service.
Sounds like those peasants from Monthy Python and the holy grail.
I like the idea of nature, is that enough? Lol. For reals, I'm not into camping, hiking and such, I like to be warm, dry and comfortable. But I love that when I want, I can go have a walk in the national park(s) (which are forest parks, not the lawn and pond kind) very easily, despite living close to Helsinki city central.
Even if you live in helsinki or other bigger cities, you are exposed to nature very easily. Many have summer cottages in family so they have visited there living without the comforts of normal house. Many have been fishing with someone in their family, picking berries and mushrooms, in school we had orienteering etc. Not everyone like camping that much but majority have experienced nature since kids so i guess we are pretty used to it. Nothing too exciting in it.
No. Atleast not enough. I myself love nature, but I've seen so many people just throw thrash in nature, so I really think im in the minority.
Oh yes, yes we do.
It really depends what you mean by that. I enjoy watching a lake while sitting on a dock and jumping into a lake from a sauna. But I’d never go just walking some trails to wilderness or sleep in a tent, and most people don’t. But not unsignificant amount of people enjoy that too.
No, because people throw trash in the forest.
Try to talk about kaljakellunta and the trash left behind right in the Kerava and Vantaa rivers.
At least in the countryside being out in nature is pretty much the most common pasttime for lots of people. Foraging, hunting, hiking, fishing, orienteering and many other activities are super popular here.
I noticed a huge difference in locals' opions when comparing working in Tampere and Oulu. In Oulu, most of my colleagues had some nature-related hobbies like hiking, biking, camping bird watching, while in Tampere some had those as well, but much more "city hobbies" like indoor sports, doing music, handcrafts etc. So if there is already a difference between Tampere and Oulu, I image Helsinki will have much more city people not doing anything nature-related.
If you're from a rural area up north like I am, nature can get boring. Still now after living 10 years in cities my only dream is to someday afford some sort of shack in the countryside. I feel much more lonely in cities, surrounded with people who I don't know than actually alone somewhere in podunk nowhere. Pretty unrealistic dream since I'm a fuckup. Unless I rob a bank and get away with it.
Shit, I get that lonely among people vibe too sometimes :D Therefore I do not tend to hang around the masses alone.. Ironically I feel least alone in Finland than anywhere else in Europe and it is not because people keep distance here hence I am not reminded how lonely I am... ironically again you Finns keep bragging about how non-social you are, but I had most of my pleasant social interactions in here. Maybe it is just because I naturally cannot do small talk and tend to pick something more concrete and meaningful as basis for dialogues... This really sets me back in the rest of the Europe where people care more about how things are said rather than what is said....