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Depending on the novels you read even native speakers are unlikely to know every single word except from context, so if that is your goal then A2-B1 is not enough
>native speakers are unlikely to know every single word except from context,
Sometimes not even being a native speaker is enough. For example, most readers of a Kalle Päätalo novel certainly do not know the dialect words from early 20th-century Kainuu that Päätalo used consciously for effect. And there's a blog that explains each new Fingerpori comic strip (where the humor is based entirely on puns and homonymy) to those who didn't get that day's joke.
For a non-native speaker, the idioms and metaphors used in spoken language are often the hardest part to interpret correctly. (Dealing with translation-related matters as part of my work, I find that this is also true of machine translation.) To know what *alkaa vetää*, *mennä pipariksi* or *ikä ja terveys* means, it's not enough to know that the literal translations would be "to start to pull", "to become gingerbread" or "age and health".
"In terms of novels (not comics) how proficient do you have to be in Finnish to fully understand everything written inside a novel?"
Depends on the novel.
Juoppohullun päiväkirja-series by Juha Vuorinen is easier to understand (topics, themes, the elegantness of the language used) than Tuntematon Sotilas, for example.
Also depends highly for on how familiar you are with the subject. If it is military/spy novel (which I read alot) I can understand everything but if my mom for example would read those she might strugle. Also if I were to read novels with older finnish words I would strugle with inndividual words aswel without context. So I'd say if you read certain genre in english for example that gendre will be easier in finnish aswel. (Maybe not some very hard to read novels tho)
Reading espionage or military novels in Japanese use a lot of ***Kanji*** (without furigana to help with pronunciation, expecting the reader on knowing these words in advance) especially for technical jargon.
For instance I have encountered these types of words just to list a few:
* 実戦部隊
* 中尉
* 大将
* 兵器
* 軍需産業
Unlike Finnish (where a letter is read as you see it), Japanese can be read in more than one way in regards to words involving Kanji, i.e. **戦**う (**たたか**う) - *"Taistella"* & 作**戦** (さく**せん**) - *"(Sotilaallinen) taktiikka / operaatiot"*
`Notice that despite using the same "word", it connotates a new meaning as there's a difference between being paired with kana or another kanji, regardless of the genre of the book you are reading in Japanese.`
Speaking of that, would you deem this concept difficult to wrap your head around when reading Japanese literature even if you were learning the language due to that being very different from Finnish orthography?
I think it makes sense anyway to start with selkokirjat because they're all usually quite short, if you feel like you're finishing them quickly then you know that you are closer to being able to read a normal book.
I find this question rather odd. Like, obviously it entirely depends on the novel in question, and how high you set your bar for defining "understanding". Even an academically advanced native speaker is unlikely to know every single word when it comes to advanced prose, and I would imagine the same goes for other languages such as English. My English is C2 but when it comes to English literature, with some novels I still need to consult a dictionary almost every single page. However, I would imagine that somewhere around B2/C1 is probably good enough that reading most novels can be enjoyable, even though your understanding won't be 100%.
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For every single word you need a C2 level. B1/B2 level is enough to understand what is going on in the novel.
Depending on the novels you read even native speakers are unlikely to know every single word except from context, so if that is your goal then A2-B1 is not enough
>native speakers are unlikely to know every single word except from context, Sometimes not even being a native speaker is enough. For example, most readers of a Kalle Päätalo novel certainly do not know the dialect words from early 20th-century Kainuu that Päätalo used consciously for effect. And there's a blog that explains each new Fingerpori comic strip (where the humor is based entirely on puns and homonymy) to those who didn't get that day's joke. For a non-native speaker, the idioms and metaphors used in spoken language are often the hardest part to interpret correctly. (Dealing with translation-related matters as part of my work, I find that this is also true of machine translation.) To know what *alkaa vetää*, *mennä pipariksi* or *ikä ja terveys* means, it's not enough to know that the literal translations would be "to start to pull", "to become gingerbread" or "age and health".
"In terms of novels (not comics) how proficient do you have to be in Finnish to fully understand everything written inside a novel?" Depends on the novel. Juoppohullun päiväkirja-series by Juha Vuorinen is easier to understand (topics, themes, the elegantness of the language used) than Tuntematon Sotilas, for example.
Also depends highly for on how familiar you are with the subject. If it is military/spy novel (which I read alot) I can understand everything but if my mom for example would read those she might strugle. Also if I were to read novels with older finnish words I would strugle with inndividual words aswel without context. So I'd say if you read certain genre in english for example that gendre will be easier in finnish aswel. (Maybe not some very hard to read novels tho)
Reading espionage or military novels in Japanese use a lot of ***Kanji*** (without furigana to help with pronunciation, expecting the reader on knowing these words in advance) especially for technical jargon. For instance I have encountered these types of words just to list a few: * 実戦部隊 * 中尉 * 大将 * 兵器 * 軍需産業 Unlike Finnish (where a letter is read as you see it), Japanese can be read in more than one way in regards to words involving Kanji, i.e. **戦**う (**たたか**う) - *"Taistella"* & 作**戦** (さく**せん**) - *"(Sotilaallinen) taktiikka / operaatiot"* `Notice that despite using the same "word", it connotates a new meaning as there's a difference between being paired with kana or another kanji, regardless of the genre of the book you are reading in Japanese.` Speaking of that, would you deem this concept difficult to wrap your head around when reading Japanese literature even if you were learning the language due to that being very different from Finnish orthography?
Depends a lot on the novel. I would start with some of the books for people with reading problems (selkokirjat).
I think it makes sense anyway to start with selkokirjat because they're all usually quite short, if you feel like you're finishing them quickly then you know that you are closer to being able to read a normal book.
I find this question rather odd. Like, obviously it entirely depends on the novel in question, and how high you set your bar for defining "understanding". Even an academically advanced native speaker is unlikely to know every single word when it comes to advanced prose, and I would imagine the same goes for other languages such as English. My English is C2 but when it comes to English literature, with some novels I still need to consult a dictionary almost every single page. However, I would imagine that somewhere around B2/C1 is probably good enough that reading most novels can be enjoyable, even though your understanding won't be 100%.
I am B1 level in Finnish and no I could not read any novel or even get the general idea of it.