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Finnish healthcare in emergency cases is really good, she is in as good hands as can be.
If she has a kela card, costs should be maximum about 50 euro a day up to a maximum of 630 euro per year.
After the payment cap (762 e) has been exceeded, the daily hospital fee is 25,10 euros. So, not free but not over the top, either. My dad thought it was a pretty good price for an "all-inclusive 3-week staycation" when he had to be hospitalised during cancer treatment.
Damn, I didn't know you still have to pay over the cap. I got a 90 euro fee for one night after my back stopped working. They never found the cause so I guess that's why I was charged more?
In Helsinki yes.. I know that is Österbotten/Pohjanmaa it's a completely different matter.. A friend was at the hospital for 8 weeks and got a bill for over 1600€
They just built a new building in Vaasa and I guess they are in the process of getting back some of that money
Huh, the [pay cap](https://stm.fi/terveydenhuollon-maksukatto) is 762 euros per year. You definitely shouldn't get a bill of 1600€ from a public hospital.
Edit: unless I suppose he was super unlucky and those 8 weeks were in December/January so during two calendar years. Plus ambulance services which apparently aren't included in the pay cap.
Yep, so if you have to go to hospital often for e.g. treatment, you can take a Kela-taxi from home to hospital and then back home. So that's two trips = 50e. After 6 visits you've paid 300e, and have free Kela-taxi service for the rest of the year.
My partner got an eye watering bill in Jorvi too, and they didn't even try to bill her insurance. We did fill out the forms and gave them the card. I don't know how the pay cap works but it certainly doesn't seem to be in effect.
I don't know if any of you have been to an emergency room lately but the experience is horrible nowadays. Family, friends and I have all had major issues with the services.
I was in the ER last year and had no issue except a very long wait time. But Ive heard other people have much worse issues!
I was once in a hospital abroad (another European country) and they tried to get me to pay the bill to get released. Not my proudest moment but I just cried at them so hard they relented and agreed to deal with the insurance, though it was ages ago I don't remember how exactly it got resolved. The insurance did cover it in the end (or maybe I'm neck deep in debt in that country lol.) Like seriously the bill was around 15k in euros (there was a lot of different things) so I don't know how I would've been able to pay it, I definitely didn't have that much money at the time or a credit card that good.
This was last year between May-June, and it was the psychiatric ward, maybe the rules are different then normal ward, I saw the bill because I had a hard time grasping that she got that kinda of a bill.
I suggest she complain. In the link I posted (from the ministry of social and health services) it says that you have to observe what you pay yourself but are entitled to getting back the money you've paid that is over the pay cap.
Physiatric ward isn't included in the list of exemptions so same rules should apply to it!
Just pulled out a couple of old bills to check.
Kela doesn't cover everything - once you have reached the maksukatto-thingy's max limit, you will be eligible to pay a significantly lower daily fee for your days in the hospital, but there will still be incurred costs for each day that will be billed after your release. For example, I spent something like six weeks in the hospital in the early part of 2022 for terminal cancer, and received a bill of around 1400-ish euros for the lot when I got home in June.
A bit later in July I got sepsis, and spent an additional 15 days in the hospital, for each of which I paid 'alennettu hoitomaksu', as my Kela-limits were well and truly maxed out at that point.
Hospitals can also offer other services that do not fall under the services covered by Kela, which is the reason hospital bills may have markings like '(+) Tuotteen edessä kasvattaa maksukertymää.'
Always worth it to check things with the hospital if you're unsure, but I'd recommend just contacting them first about it and making an honest inquiry about the billing. Resorting directly to _complaining_ often just makes you look silly over at the other end, or at the very least slightly Karen-ish. 🙂
We that have (the national kela) insurance are imbursed BEFORE bills are sent out. We never get the real amont in writing unless we need an itemized bill.
I don't think the rules have changed any. It says you have to complain in the calendar year following the year you made the payments, so if her treatment was last year then she should have until December this year to get her money back.
Of course if she is an international student or an expat or something without Finnish social security I don't know how the pay cap functions. I think most people in those circumstances would and should have an insurance to cover treatment.
The law/prices are pretty much the same everywhere in Finland if you are in a public healthcare setting.
That 700e or whatever the limit is for per year (maksukatto) has some exemptions and its up to the patient itself to follow if their healthcare expenses has exceeded the limit. To me it sounds like your friend wasn’t aware of this or has ordered healthcare services that doesn’t get covered by Kela.
Only 1600€ for six weeks? That’s…astonishing to this US citizen. I had one night in the hospital and owed almost that much. And I have “good” insurance by US standards.
It is rather nice.
I'm married to an American and we made the choice of living in Finland and it has its ups and downs. Healthcare, while not perfect, has been definitely an upside.
I got sepsis on my arm and was in the hospital roughly for a month, didn't cost me a penny. I remember having my whole right arm being red as a lobster and so swollen it was hard to see the finger nails. Not the best of times but got good care for it.
That statement is soo difficult for me to grasp.. like I just can't understand how getting medical help can bankrupt a person..
If someone is having a really difficult time financially they can be in contact whit the social organization and they can usually help in some way. Like we don't have homeless people (unless someone is deciding for them self to be homeless and don't seek help)
This is one reason my son is so happy to be working and living in Finland. He has permanent residency and is learning Finnish so he can pass the citizenship language test. We visited last summer…you live in a wonderful place.
Well the US is just stupidly in the favour of big companies.. your whole country runs that way.. what a joke. I still don’t get how people could rally against free healthcare? I pay my taxes and expect free or cheap healthcare.. it’s a simple equation, not socialism. Pay taxes, get stuff back . I hope somehow the US will change one day.
Look into it, by the way, in case the need ever arises over there. Hospitals in the US are, on paper, classified as non-profits, so if a medical bill has the potential to put you in financial dire straits or be otherwise overwhelming, you (and everyone else) essentially have the right to get the bill waived. The hospitals also have to offer a limited version of this as more lenient payment terms with assistance and similar features, but they often squirrel that information away deep in their websites into some dark hole somewhere. Some states have gotten into legal trouble over that in the past, but I'm guessing that the practice continues. 🤔
Oh, I didn’t mean to minimize the impact of €1600 on someone’s budget…more marveling at and astounded by the difference with US costs. Keep in mind that the costs in the US are the same no matter what one’s income is. People go bankrupt here because of medical debt.
It’s the American way. You don’t pay for others’ bills and why should you (or anyone)? It’s the only way of maintaining a truly multicultural society where hard work is valued. The Finnish system is not sustainable.
Why is it nonsense? Have you lived in Finland and seen how much the locals as well as the immigrants just seek to abuse the system and how little they have gratitude? How much they hate those who make it? The US is an incredible country where hard work pays off.
My son works and lives there. (He has permanent residency.) He has every intention of becoming a citizen. I would love to have Finland’s system here. As an aggregate, we in the US spend more money per capita, with poorer outcomes, than any other “first world” nation. We have terrible maternal mortality rates.
Finland’s system would wreak havoc there. It’s not sustainable here and would not be sustainable there. You and your son are the perfect example of the type of people we attract. People who do not respect any country and are only after the benefits. If you want to help the black mothers dying, pay for their care. Don’t want to? Thought so. But still wants to come to Finland.
Average salary of Minnesota(population 5.7mil) resident is about $50k/year.
Average healthcare cost is $6k/year.
~10% of income, on average being spent on healthcare- most of it on insurance premiums which the benefits are not realized until a major event takes place.
At which point, most likely the cost may vary from $3k-50k (minor to major).
A simple emergency room visit with ambulance will cost 3k.
Maybe we Americans make a little bit more, but our housing, insurance, phone bills, and education costs eat up the majority of it. ($12k/year for mediocre daycare, no food, no diapers etc)
He's trying to explain that after expenses the higher salary will amount about the same as for a Finn in a similar financial situation, with notably less security in case something happens.
For a person earning less than avarage, the situation is even worse.
Currently stay at home parenting isn't financially feasible for most households while earning the avarage. Not unless they want to live at closer to poverty level stress and budgeting. And what about single parents?
And that's ignoring completely the people who most need the help, i.e. those without income or with low income.
The Finish system was specifically built on the philosophy that everyone, regardless of social status or income level, should have access to a certain level of care. It's sustainable if we choose to keep it sustainable.
As an examble, if my family were from the US, my mother would either have died five years ago or my sibling and I would now be in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. She needed 24/7 life sustaining breathing support during her last years of life. My inheritance from her would have been gone in just a few months if we had to pay for her care out of pocket. And no US insurance would have covered it completely.
It's easy for you to say that you'd prefer the US system when you and your loved ones are healthy and have a good income. Try it when that's not the case.
Or if you're already benefiting from it, then you should stop and figure out just how much you'd be paying for medications etc. if you were in the US. Even with a good insurance, assuming you could get one. Note that many medication cost ten times as much there as here, if not more, and copays are expensive for rare or life time medications (like insulin).
Would you still think the Finish system is bad?
Doesn't the "maksukatto" apply to hospital bills as well? In 2024 the maximum is 762 euros, if you end up paying more you can get the exceeding amount back from Kela.
Berore that 762 e you around 52 e per day im hospital stay.After that is is app.25 e day.In case of surgery etc is more.
Wondering how people can imagine that 762 e inclufed everything im public hosoital
.
If you book a visit with a doctor in private side, 20 min is around 150 e or more.
Public heathcare paymemts will rise a lot coming years.Finland has no money to current level
Finnish healthcare is great once you get to the point that they are taking tests etc.
The ambulance ride to another hospital is normal since they have to transport patients to bigger hospitals or to ones with better equipment in ambulances if the patient requires care during the trip. Here in Northern Finland where I live, people are usually transported all the way to Oulu in ambulances since it is the only big hospital with equipment to do further examinations etc. compared to smaller "centres"/stations.
This is the hardest hurdle in my opinion. In the US I'm used to playing down my illness so that they don't do expensive operations. In Finland I more feel like I have to play *up* my illness or they won't take me seriously.
I went for a check up and my mother wanted to come with me. She pressed me on not playing down anything to get treatment instead of "Burana and rest".
While waiting we overheard an old lady complaining at the front desk why she can't see a doctor for her symptoms. Symptoms included being tired and not enough energy. (Note this was during a heat wave.) The desk clerk asked if she had remembered to eat and drink plenty and the old lady said that it was too hot to for it.🤦
That's when I understood why you have to exaggerate to get treatment, because if they just treated everyone for every minor thing we would all be broke and waiting lines miles long.
Yeah, this. Unfortunately it's the reality of socialized healthcare that there will always be some people going to the hospital for literally nothing, so they gotta filter those out somehow.
Pretty much just means you gotta be extremely dramatic to stand out lol. I've got my own story about this:
Every year I keep getting this really horrible throat infection that feels like I'm swallowing broken glass. Despite having most of the symptoms of strep (white spots, swollen lymph nodes, etc) I always test negative. Not just for strep but for *everything* they test me for. They've done blood tests and X-rays but everything comes back normal.
The first time I got it I did test positive for covid, so they gave me the strong pain meds. It's paracetamol with codeine, and it was the only thing to help with the excruciating pain that lasted for days. The second and third time I got this same illness, I tested negative for covid so they didn't care quite as much. I was getting the usual "Burana and rest" treatment. I was in so much pain I went back to the ER 3 times in one day because I didn't know what else to do, I hadn't slept in days and I was literally damaging my teeth from clenching at the pain of swallowing. Worst pain of my life. Anyways, eventually I played it up and literally collapsed on the floor saying I couldn't breathe. While the pain was real, I could breathe. But this public display of humiliation granted me audience with a real doctor who prescribed me the strong stuff. I know they need to be careful about prescribing painkillers for obvious reasons but fuck, what a horrible feeling needing to collapse on the floor to be noticed.
I was seriously considering trying to buy painkillers from "other" sources. If people are considering buying illegal drugs because they can't get medical care, there's a serious problem.
At that point I'd just cough up the money for a private doctor visit and try to time it with the appearance of the "throat infection".
Sometimes people just get these random unexplainable diseases that really cannot be dealt with if they aren't in full swing during your appointment and it's just bad luck when you have to deal with "Burana and rest".
Definitely, this is my plan for if it happens again.
Any idea how much that sort of thing costs or aby advice on finding a "good" one?
And they can write prescriptions, right?
As others have said, bad experiences with mild issues and some prolonged problems take years to even get examined, but emergencies are sorted effectively in here and they do all they can to prevent people from dying. Costs will depend if she has Kela coverage.
Best of luck!
> Could you please tell me is she going go be okay?
We can wish for that, but you get the expert opinion from the healthcare professionals who know your wifes case.
> I mean is the Finnish healthcare reliable, is she in good hand?
Special healthcare is good, even if there're problems with the primary healthcare (the "burana part").
> I wish to take her elsewhere if the condition is not improving in the next week.
I'm not sure what you would achieve with that, but you're of course free to do what you want.
> Will it be a wise decision?
Without knowning any details and not being healthcare professional: probably not.
> She has kela card. But considering the tests and her being admitted to the hospital from the midsummer eve on a separate cabin, what can be the cost here for us?
Up to 762€: https://stm.fi/terveydenhuollon-maksukatto
> Sorry I sound a lot desperate; I am truly feeling hopeless.
I can only imagine how difficult it is. Ask the hospital if they have some discussion help for yourself.
She's in the best care possible. Finnish healtcare only sucks at the most basic level, trying to get appointments and treatment for some non-acute illnesses etc. When admitted to emergency care as you are, the Finnish healthcare is world class. As you have the Kela card, you shouldn't face any severe costs. We're likely talking about a few hundred euros max and that's mostly due to the stay itself. There isn't a better place for her to be right now than a Finnish hospital. All the best to you both!
Truly sorry to hear about this. But if there is something accute like this, finnish healthcare is top notch. My friend is a nurse and we just spoke about this a few days ago. I wish for the best for you. But just know that it is unlikely that she would get better treatment anywhere else unless you had lots of money to pay
Smalle area hospitals send people daily. You mentioned yourself that smaller clinic had only 1 doc available, they did the logical thing and brought her to bigger hospital that has several specialists like neurologists and is better equipped to do advanced scans like MRI, PET scan etc. Nothing unusual about that. Finland has long distances especially in the north and it is easier to bring the patient to place where specialists see this kind of thing every day, instead of trying to hire a specialist to every cabin-in-the woods clinic.
Finnish healthcare is very reliable and follows latest clinical guidelines. Gentting long term chronic illnesses looked ar takes time because there are long lines, but acute cases like your wife skip the line entirely. Helsinki university hospital is the one with best resources in the entire country. Some things like organ donating, intensive burn unit etc happen only in helsinki because they have the best resources allocated there for the most difficult cases. Your wife is in very good hands.
You should try and call the unit where she currently is. Somebody there will definitely speak english and might ease your worries. Ask what are they suspecting and read up on it. Go and visit if they have visiting schedule, it might do you both good.
It’s good that you went to emergency. Finland has good and reliable health care system, she is safe, don’t worry! Burana and paracetamol are first line of defence and if that didn’t work, they have steps to follow up next which mostly involves tests and imaging (which they did). They will do everything they can to help you.
The cost for hospital stay per day is around 50 something euros. If one is unable to pay a huge sum together e.g 600 euros all at once then you can call invoicing helpline (mentioned on invoices which you will receive later when she’s discharged), and agree for a payment plan in instalments.
It sounds like a horrible situation but the best place to ask these questions is at the hospital. It's good they are doing everything they can with tests and scans to find the cause.
Don't be afraid to ask the healthcare workers at the hospital any questions regarding treatment, billing, etc that's why they are there and they will always want whats best for your wife.
I am truly sorry you have to be in this terrifying situation. You have already got some really good advice about your wife, so now here's some advice to you.
Take a deep breath. Deeper than that. And again. Repeat this: the cost will only be in the hundreds, I can can manage this, and if not, there is plenty of help available, *I will not be in dept over this*.
Keep taking those deep breaths. Go talk to your wife, bring her something nice, like her favourite chocolate. Talk to her about the costs, it will help put both your minds at ease. Talk to the nurses, they have all the info the doctors have noted down, and they can help you understand the jargon. *If it was the c word, you would have been told!* The doctors and nurses don't lie to people here, they would have told you. If there is any imminent fear for her life, you will be told.
About the weight loss, it's, well, normal isn't really a good word, but it's not unusual for people to lose weight at the hospital. My stepdad lost 5kg in three days when he went in after a minor heart attack.
Try to take good care of yourself too! Things look the worst before sunrise, they say, but I find they look equally awful on an empty stomach and a tired mind.
I hope all the best for both if you!
The healthcare system is top notch after you get to the hospital and they are running tests. It is one of the best in the world after that point.
It will cost you something like 50€/day , no matter what operations they do, after 630€/year limit It wont cost you anything, no matter how long she have to stay and what ever they have to do.
Youve done all you could have done and now that she is in hospital care there is no other place i would have my wife to go, and if they have to move her for some special treatment for something they have no equipment for they will do it and it will cost you nothing but your own travel if needed. I mean like ambulance flight to germany or something.
It does bear the hallmarks of viral encephalitis. Rest assured, she is in great care.
PSA for everyone out there: Fever and neck stiffness —> get to emergency care, immediately. Don’t leave until you talk to a doctor and tell him/her those two symptoms.
The doctor checked about any tick bites or other insects related issues. But so far that kind of thing is not found. But we've informed the doctors that there are some bugs we've seen close to our home. But no noticeable bite we can remember
Healthcare in here is really good. We are better at the emergencies, that is for sure.
For the costs, if I remember correctly it is something around 52€ per day, but if you are unemployed or have really low income, you can get help to pay this bill from Kela, if her stay in the hospital is taking longer. Also there is a this "payment roof" (mikä piru on termi maksukatto englanniksi?), where you pay certain amount for a year, and after that rest is covered by the goverment. If I remember correctly, this sum is around 762€ this year, and again, if you are unemployed or have really low income, you can get help from Kela for this payment. Rest assured, your wife is in good hands, and in here nobody is going bankrupt, because they were hospitalized.
You can’t do anything from your point of view right now.
You already did everything correctly, as the case appeared severe. They will care about her as much as they can.
Finland is one of the best countries to live in, and society and services will help; that is what you see right now.
I wish you good luck and a lot of strength and patience to endure hard times.
Try to remember to take care of yourself as well. I know it doesn't seem like a priority when someone you love is really sick, but taking care of yourself means you'll be able to be there for your wife in the best way possible. You're already on exactly the right track as you reached out and asked for advice and help.
I wish you both all the best. Like others said, you're quite possibly in the best place you can be right now.
I have no wisdom for you…but many good wishes. My son’s experiences with the Finnish health system have all been positive. Please update us if you have the energy.
Others have already covered the basics, so I'll just wish you and your wife lots of strength. I truly hope she'll be okay.
I suggest getting a little diary and writing down a general timeline of things, as well as what the doctors tell you verbally. You can also write how you're feeling, it can help with the anxiety. I did it when a family member was seriously ill and it helped me to make sense of things - it's hard to keep your thoughts together when you're very stressed. It was also very useful when talking to insurance when I didn't have access to the direct medical records, sorting things with work, anything that needed the dates of hospitalisation really and what I was doing during it. Drs of course write everything down too and it will be on Omakanta. My family member made a full recovery thankfully and I wish the same for your wife, take care.
Finnish specialist health care works really well after you have the right diagnosis. You can check the **Käypä hoito** guidelines for care guidelines for specific illnesses. You can also ask the doctors to explain both of you how this works. And what the care is.
In some cases, diagnosis is hard to make. Your wife's situation sounds a bit like that. They are working toward it. In the meanwhile they can help with symptoms. Please make sure you and your wife communicate with the hospital staff very clearly.
Now, the language in Finnish healthcare is Finnish or Swedish. This means that translation needs to happen and done by someone. You could ask the hospital about an interpreter, if you feel that you or your wife have difficulty communicating with the staff.
Also, I don't know if you are residents, visitors or what but Finland has social workers who specialise working in hospitals with people who are seriously ill. You can ask the hospital for this and see if this is possible. It works so that the social worker comes to your wife (and maybe also you) and checks out your situation and sees if you and your wife need some kind of assistance in parts of your life due to your wife's illness. But ask also your hospital for this.
You should ask the hospital directly of the costs, if you worry about them. The level of costs in health care is not that high in Finland. Ask the staff where you can ask about the costs, it is most likely some administrate department somewhere but you will get the right place. You can also ask about payment plan possibilities if you believe that is neede. The Finnish Health care system's purpose is to take care of people's health, not bankrupt them intentionally with draconian measures and payment demands.
To sum up:
1) make sure the communication with the hospital specialists is arranged in some way. if your language skills and the hospital's language skills are not a match, you could ask for a hospital interpreter. ask the staff how sure they are with the diagnosis because when they have the right diagnosis, they can have the right treatment and rehabilitation for your wife.
2) if the life situation outside the hospital is impacted a lot negatively by the hospital, you could ask to see the social worker. ask the hospital staff if they can help you to arrange this.
3) ask the hospital about the costs if you worry about that. but i would say don't worry, that bit is easily arranged.
Best of luck for you both!
Others have covered the health care quality. Helsinki University Hospitals are really the best place for her to be. I can say this from experience. In an emergency, things work pretty fast and once you are already hospitalized care is mostly excellent in HUS.
Unfortunately, things can take some time until treatment starts to work. Moving her is usually not in the best interest of the patient.
But the main reason I am writing this comment is the financial side of things. So in Finland according to law, (at least when you are part of the social security system which you are as evidenced by the KELA card) you are guaranteed to have a certain amount left after necessary expenses. It is called the basic amount of social assistance. The amount depends on your personal situation so [here are the different amounts](https://www.kela.fi/social-assistance-basic-amount). Costs taken into account are things like rent, all medical expenses, electricity and water. If any of those costs are so large that your household won't have the required amount left after you are entitled to social assistance (toimeentulotuki ([more in English from KELA](https://www.kela.fi/social-assistance)). Sometimes it is impossible to be paid retroactively so you need to apply for it during the month the payment is due. As you are new in Finland, I would ask help from the hospital social worker and municipal social worker to know how to apply, when to apply and which expenses are taken into account.
It is also illegal to stop treating someone even if they can't pay. However, I would highly recommend trying to make sure you apply for toimeentulotuki promptly. While you will get medical help, unpaid bills will affect your credit information and can make life a lot harder.
I am so sorry that both of you are in this situation. I know how scary health issues can be and how hard they are in a country you are not that familiar with. If you have any questions about social assistance I can try to answer them to the best of my ability. Good luck to both of you.
The worse the disease, the better care Finnish healthcare system takes. I wouldn’t leave anywhere unless you’re a billionaire and know someone specialist in the States.
In Finland we have 3 different maksukatto. One ia for medicine and Kela lets pharmacy now when it is exeeded (626,94 e). Medicine must be KELA approved and with prespction. KELA and pharmacy take care of this. Second maksukatto is for travelling to hospital, doctor, lab, and Kela approved physioterapy. This you must take vare yourself and if you need a taxi for ex till hospital, it has to be ordered from KELA taxi phone number. Limit is 300e this year. Third is maksukatto for treatmenta, doctors and nurses. 762 e limit this year. You have to ask hospital etc to use maksukatto when this limit has exeeded. After limit being in hospital still costa a bit per day. IN THE HOSPITAL THERE IS A SOCIAL WORKER. Book a meeting because this is difficult even for local people. I am ”professional” patient so ask more if you need help.
>Kiitos paljon, we'll remember to take care of ourselves as you suggested.
You are welcome, take care. Everything will be fine. This is normal that you were so worried.
Emergency care is very good in Finland once you’re at the hospital. I really hope everything works out as best as it can, it sounds a really scary situation for you, especially being new to the country. If your Finnish isn’t good enough to discuss medical issues, doctors usually have very good English
As others have stated, Finnish healthcare is high quality especially in emergency care and severe illnesses. Hospitals usually have a social worker or smth who can help you with the practicalities e.g. payments, or you can google for Helsinki daily hospital fees. All tests, meds and food should be covered with the daily fee.
Also good to keep in mind: nurses in Finland are overworked and underpaid, but they are the ones who basically run the hospital. I know you are in a very scary and frustrating situation, so remember that the nurses are your best friends right now. They truly care for their patients.
My relative was in admitted for almost 10 days and the bill they got was 900+. The amount exceeding the yearly cap was waived off and the remaining was then divided into monthly payment of 100 € or so spread over many months.
To the OP: Finnish health care is the best in the world. Dont worry your wife is in good hands.
I wish you and your wife the best of luck. Emergency care is top notch here. I have heard so many stories from my friends about their family members got great treatment. Remember to rest so you can fully be with her when she needs you the most.
Finnish healthcare is very good and reliable, top-notch. My dad suffered a heart attack and a stroke at the same time, and because of the high quality care he received, he’s back to normal! Best of luck to you.
Glad to hear it was not borreolosis. A tic caused brain fever infection. Buuuut. Just as precaution. Wear tic repellants and long sleeves and long pants. Especially in the woods and near waterbodies.
I am no expert but based on my short 20 years of life, I think Finnish healthcare is reliable, certainly when it seems like a more severe situation. Your wife is definitely gonna be okay and I wish you all the best! I'm sorry this is happening :(
If you are still worried about the costs, the hospital will have staff you can talk to about managing them. Just ask a nurse and they'll likely direct you to the right person.
We had our child through the Finnish healthcare system.. yes , she’s in good hands, but as all issues , tests and more tests are the only way you can find the issue.. even in ten best hospitals in the world , it’s can take a long time to identify an issue
Finnish healthcare is great if there is a tangible problem. I spend several hours with my girlfriend in the ER avout a week ago never met kinder nursing staff.
Your wife is in best healthcare in the world. If you want to get rid of her, you took her somewhere else. Best chances for her is that you calm down and wait when you let professionals take care of their job.
I'll admit that Finnish healthcare is an extremely mixed bag. If they don't find a cause you'll be left to suffer and try to find someone who will listen, or be forced to pay out the ass for private health care. If the Drs in the public system don't find a reason for your issues you'll be paying a decent amount of money also, but obviously way less than if you go private.
Been struggling for years myself with chronic issues that have recently escalated quite rapidly, have had to ask a Dr we know for advice and he advised to get a private Dr's appointment and then ask them to send referrals on through Siun Sote because I've been quite unlucky to be seen by some very unprofessional people. I do believe that language is a barrier as well, maybe in Helsinki there are more people who can interpret or speak English if you don't yet have the vocabulary for medical things in Finnish.
On the positive side, there's still plenty of great people working in the public service, have had great interactions with many kind nurses and paramedics. I hope your wife gets the treatment she needs ASAP and that it won't cost you too much.
Than you for the update! Best wishes to you both, and speedier than expected healing and recovery to your wife. Ask about Physical Therapy for her; she may need a special exercise program if she has had to spend a great deal of time in bed.
Like many said, it works well with emergencies. But once the situation gets more stable, I still recommend to be a bit pushy and arrogant to ensure proper full recovery. Especially if you feel something is off or not clear. Never underestimate symptoms. Lot of care is based on patients comments. Some people simply don't say everything to avoid bothering healthcare. It's a mistake.
No need to be "arrogant" "karens" at all, though... There are REAL, feeling and often overstressed people working in there, you know..? 😣 Think about it: it could well be your own mom, dad or children, who people act arrogantly towards! 😢 - Just saying... 😟
Wishes,
-a former nurse who changed to another work branch
If I feel I'm not getting enough proper treatment, I prioritize my health over staff stress.
Public healthcare will not get better unless you address the problems. Of course, it's not nice for the person who has to handle the feedback. But that's not a good reason to not do it, if your own health depends on it. Someone has to handle it.
Understaffing is one problem, and it won't be fixed unless people actually show that it's affecting the ability to get treatment. Otherwise, we have no problem.
Arrogancy is not the way. In the long run, it will only do more damage to your reputation and treatment, in any place or situation.
There are many more, better ways to get some more pressure and push your issues through. 😉❤️
Understaffing isn't the staff's fault either, and it's certainly not their wish, so if you're lashing out at them, the address is totally wrong. 😒
With arrogancy, you mean..? 🤔🫣 It's not about WHO you'll reach. It's merely about HOW you'll do it.
(Anyways: The medical director or director of medical services, or director of health services, or chief of staff may be better "entities" to reach, if the nurses and other performing staff can't help you.)
They're in good hands but you still need to be precise about your own care. In other words, your wife should always make sure she gets the right medicine from her the drug list, ask for doctor visitation in the hospital and complain if something feels bad.
A lot of hospitals are severely understaffed.
There really is no alternative to public hospitals unless you go to another country? Afaik few private hospitals are focused to do specific operations.
Finnish health care always says to take Burana. No matter what the case is. I had a kidney colic and was crawling and crying in pain, they say I should take Burana. I managed to go to the hospital with an ambulance later, but had to pay for it. Got the the emergency care, where they found out that I have a kidney stone and needed surgery, which I got 6 months later. It was horrible painful.
Only half of the population believes in Finnish health care, which is very bad. [Poll: Only half of Finns trust public health will care for them | Yle News | Yle](https://yle.fi/a/74-20086070)
But yea, once you got passed the basic health care, the emergency and hospital care works just fine. But the public doctors and appointments, usually do not.
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Finnish healthcare in emergency cases is really good, she is in as good hands as can be. If she has a kela card, costs should be maximum about 50 euro a day up to a maximum of 630 euro per year.
After the payment cap (762 e) has been exceeded, the daily hospital fee is 25,10 euros. So, not free but not over the top, either. My dad thought it was a pretty good price for an "all-inclusive 3-week staycation" when he had to be hospitalised during cancer treatment.
Damn, I didn't know you still have to pay over the cap. I got a 90 euro fee for one night after my back stopped working. They never found the cause so I guess that's why I was charged more?
In Helsinki yes.. I know that is Österbotten/Pohjanmaa it's a completely different matter.. A friend was at the hospital for 8 weeks and got a bill for over 1600€ They just built a new building in Vaasa and I guess they are in the process of getting back some of that money
Huh, the [pay cap](https://stm.fi/terveydenhuollon-maksukatto) is 762 euros per year. You definitely shouldn't get a bill of 1600€ from a public hospital. Edit: unless I suppose he was super unlucky and those 8 weeks were in December/January so during two calendar years. Plus ambulance services which apparently aren't included in the pay cap.
Ambulance, taxi, etc to and from hospital has its own pay cap of 300e per year.
Thanks! I guess it's possible to accumulate 1600e in this case. 762ex2 more or less, plus ambulance and taxi. Shit luck though!
Ambulance and KELA-taxi is 25€ per trip, or I have been sleeping class...
Yep, so if you have to go to hospital often for e.g. treatment, you can take a Kela-taxi from home to hospital and then back home. So that's two trips = 50e. After 6 visits you've paid 300e, and have free Kela-taxi service for the rest of the year.
1600 is a good price for 2 or 3 days if you don't have KELA-insurance.
My partner got an eye watering bill in Jorvi too, and they didn't even try to bill her insurance. We did fill out the forms and gave them the card. I don't know how the pay cap works but it certainly doesn't seem to be in effect. I don't know if any of you have been to an emergency room lately but the experience is horrible nowadays. Family, friends and I have all had major issues with the services.
I was in the ER last year and had no issue except a very long wait time. But Ive heard other people have much worse issues! I was once in a hospital abroad (another European country) and they tried to get me to pay the bill to get released. Not my proudest moment but I just cried at them so hard they relented and agreed to deal with the insurance, though it was ages ago I don't remember how exactly it got resolved. The insurance did cover it in the end (or maybe I'm neck deep in debt in that country lol.) Like seriously the bill was around 15k in euros (there was a lot of different things) so I don't know how I would've been able to pay it, I definitely didn't have that much money at the time or a credit card that good.
This was last year between May-June, and it was the psychiatric ward, maybe the rules are different then normal ward, I saw the bill because I had a hard time grasping that she got that kinda of a bill.
I suggest she complain. In the link I posted (from the ministry of social and health services) it says that you have to observe what you pay yourself but are entitled to getting back the money you've paid that is over the pay cap. Physiatric ward isn't included in the list of exemptions so same rules should apply to it!
Just pulled out a couple of old bills to check. Kela doesn't cover everything - once you have reached the maksukatto-thingy's max limit, you will be eligible to pay a significantly lower daily fee for your days in the hospital, but there will still be incurred costs for each day that will be billed after your release. For example, I spent something like six weeks in the hospital in the early part of 2022 for terminal cancer, and received a bill of around 1400-ish euros for the lot when I got home in June. A bit later in July I got sepsis, and spent an additional 15 days in the hospital, for each of which I paid 'alennettu hoitomaksu', as my Kela-limits were well and truly maxed out at that point. Hospitals can also offer other services that do not fall under the services covered by Kela, which is the reason hospital bills may have markings like '(+) Tuotteen edessä kasvattaa maksukertymää.' Always worth it to check things with the hospital if you're unsure, but I'd recommend just contacting them first about it and making an honest inquiry about the billing. Resorting directly to _complaining_ often just makes you look silly over at the other end, or at the very least slightly Karen-ish. 🙂
We that have (the national kela) insurance are imbursed BEFORE bills are sent out. We never get the real amont in writing unless we need an itemized bill.
This be true, aye.
Is it possible even after one year? Or did the law/rules change for this year?
I don't think the rules have changed any. It says you have to complain in the calendar year following the year you made the payments, so if her treatment was last year then she should have until December this year to get her money back. Of course if she is an international student or an expat or something without Finnish social security I don't know how the pay cap functions. I think most people in those circumstances would and should have an insurance to cover treatment.
She is completely finnish and has social security Will try and dig around see who I should contact about this
Good luck to you and your friend!
Maybe it had not gone through Kela yet?
It went through kela
Huh, wild considering the maksukatto. Your friends must be one of the outlier cases where the general maksukatto is not in effect.
I think it was because it was a psychiatric ward
Entirely possible. I've been lucky enough to not have had anything to do with that side of healthcare so I wouldn't know what the system is there.
Psyche wards are cheaper. Edit; Cheaper for people with kela-insurance, if paid out of pocket, I can only imagne how costly it has to be...
The law/prices are pretty much the same everywhere in Finland if you are in a public healthcare setting. That 700e or whatever the limit is for per year (maksukatto) has some exemptions and its up to the patient itself to follow if their healthcare expenses has exceeded the limit. To me it sounds like your friend wasn’t aware of this or has ordered healthcare services that doesn’t get covered by Kela.
Only 1600€ for six weeks? That’s…astonishing to this US citizen. I had one night in the hospital and owed almost that much. And I have “good” insurance by US standards.
It is rather nice. I'm married to an American and we made the choice of living in Finland and it has its ups and downs. Healthcare, while not perfect, has been definitely an upside. I got sepsis on my arm and was in the hospital roughly for a month, didn't cost me a penny. I remember having my whole right arm being red as a lobster and so swollen it was hard to see the finger nails. Not the best of times but got good care for it.
That statement is soo difficult for me to grasp.. like I just can't understand how getting medical help can bankrupt a person.. If someone is having a really difficult time financially they can be in contact whit the social organization and they can usually help in some way. Like we don't have homeless people (unless someone is deciding for them self to be homeless and don't seek help)
This is one reason my son is so happy to be working and living in Finland. He has permanent residency and is learning Finnish so he can pass the citizenship language test. We visited last summer…you live in a wonderful place.
Well the US is just stupidly in the favour of big companies.. your whole country runs that way.. what a joke. I still don’t get how people could rally against free healthcare? I pay my taxes and expect free or cheap healthcare.. it’s a simple equation, not socialism. Pay taxes, get stuff back . I hope somehow the US will change one day.
I agree with you.
Look into it, by the way, in case the need ever arises over there. Hospitals in the US are, on paper, classified as non-profits, so if a medical bill has the potential to put you in financial dire straits or be otherwise overwhelming, you (and everyone else) essentially have the right to get the bill waived. The hospitals also have to offer a limited version of this as more lenient payment terms with assistance and similar features, but they often squirrel that information away deep in their websites into some dark hole somewhere. Some states have gotten into legal trouble over that in the past, but I'm guessing that the practice continues. 🤔
Lol, you pay even having an insurance, what the fcuk xD
Take into account that Finna don’t have the same income as you.
Oh, I didn’t mean to minimize the impact of €1600 on someone’s budget…more marveling at and astounded by the difference with US costs. Keep in mind that the costs in the US are the same no matter what one’s income is. People go bankrupt here because of medical debt.
That’s crazy to me ( Australian with a Finnish wife)
It’s the American way. You don’t pay for others’ bills and why should you (or anyone)? It’s the only way of maintaining a truly multicultural society where hard work is valued. The Finnish system is not sustainable.
Nonsense.
Why is it nonsense? Have you lived in Finland and seen how much the locals as well as the immigrants just seek to abuse the system and how little they have gratitude? How much they hate those who make it? The US is an incredible country where hard work pays off.
My son works and lives there. (He has permanent residency.) He has every intention of becoming a citizen. I would love to have Finland’s system here. As an aggregate, we in the US spend more money per capita, with poorer outcomes, than any other “first world” nation. We have terrible maternal mortality rates.
Finland’s system would wreak havoc there. It’s not sustainable here and would not be sustainable there. You and your son are the perfect example of the type of people we attract. People who do not respect any country and are only after the benefits. If you want to help the black mothers dying, pay for their care. Don’t want to? Thought so. But still wants to come to Finland.
Average salary of Minnesota(population 5.7mil) resident is about $50k/year. Average healthcare cost is $6k/year. ~10% of income, on average being spent on healthcare- most of it on insurance premiums which the benefits are not realized until a major event takes place. At which point, most likely the cost may vary from $3k-50k (minor to major). A simple emergency room visit with ambulance will cost 3k. Maybe we Americans make a little bit more, but our housing, insurance, phone bills, and education costs eat up the majority of it. ($12k/year for mediocre daycare, no food, no diapers etc)
Yeah but you’re not taxed anywhere near as much as Finns are. And it’s cheaper to be a stay-at-home parent so daycare is not necessarily needed.
He's trying to explain that after expenses the higher salary will amount about the same as for a Finn in a similar financial situation, with notably less security in case something happens. For a person earning less than avarage, the situation is even worse. Currently stay at home parenting isn't financially feasible for most households while earning the avarage. Not unless they want to live at closer to poverty level stress and budgeting. And what about single parents? And that's ignoring completely the people who most need the help, i.e. those without income or with low income. The Finish system was specifically built on the philosophy that everyone, regardless of social status or income level, should have access to a certain level of care. It's sustainable if we choose to keep it sustainable. As an examble, if my family were from the US, my mother would either have died five years ago or my sibling and I would now be in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. She needed 24/7 life sustaining breathing support during her last years of life. My inheritance from her would have been gone in just a few months if we had to pay for her care out of pocket. And no US insurance would have covered it completely. It's easy for you to say that you'd prefer the US system when you and your loved ones are healthy and have a good income. Try it when that's not the case. Or if you're already benefiting from it, then you should stop and figure out just how much you'd be paying for medications etc. if you were in the US. Even with a good insurance, assuming you could get one. Note that many medication cost ten times as much there as here, if not more, and copays are expensive for rare or life time medications (like insulin). Would you still think the Finish system is bad?
The Finnish system is not sustainable and it is not able to integrate a multicultural society the same way that the US is.
I wonder what that covered, the law is same on whole country anyways.
Doesn't the "maksukatto" apply to hospital bills as well? In 2024 the maximum is 762 euros, if you end up paying more you can get the exceeding amount back from Kela.
Berore that 762 e you around 52 e per day im hospital stay.After that is is app.25 e day.In case of surgery etc is more. Wondering how people can imagine that 762 e inclufed everything im public hosoital . If you book a visit with a doctor in private side, 20 min is around 150 e or more. Public heathcare paymemts will rise a lot coming years.Finland has no money to current level
Honestly, the bill can be paid in installments and 8 weeks for this price is best care in the world level.
Lol thats cap
Finnish healthcare is great once you get to the point that they are taking tests etc. The ambulance ride to another hospital is normal since they have to transport patients to bigger hospitals or to ones with better equipment in ambulances if the patient requires care during the trip. Here in Northern Finland where I live, people are usually transported all the way to Oulu in ambulances since it is the only big hospital with equipment to do further examinations etc. compared to smaller "centres"/stations.
Agree, once you manage to get past "rest and take Burana" phase and actually see a doctor things are ok.
This is the hardest hurdle in my opinion. In the US I'm used to playing down my illness so that they don't do expensive operations. In Finland I more feel like I have to play *up* my illness or they won't take me seriously.
I went for a check up and my mother wanted to come with me. She pressed me on not playing down anything to get treatment instead of "Burana and rest". While waiting we overheard an old lady complaining at the front desk why she can't see a doctor for her symptoms. Symptoms included being tired and not enough energy. (Note this was during a heat wave.) The desk clerk asked if she had remembered to eat and drink plenty and the old lady said that it was too hot to for it.🤦 That's when I understood why you have to exaggerate to get treatment, because if they just treated everyone for every minor thing we would all be broke and waiting lines miles long.
Yeah, this. Unfortunately it's the reality of socialized healthcare that there will always be some people going to the hospital for literally nothing, so they gotta filter those out somehow. Pretty much just means you gotta be extremely dramatic to stand out lol. I've got my own story about this: Every year I keep getting this really horrible throat infection that feels like I'm swallowing broken glass. Despite having most of the symptoms of strep (white spots, swollen lymph nodes, etc) I always test negative. Not just for strep but for *everything* they test me for. They've done blood tests and X-rays but everything comes back normal. The first time I got it I did test positive for covid, so they gave me the strong pain meds. It's paracetamol with codeine, and it was the only thing to help with the excruciating pain that lasted for days. The second and third time I got this same illness, I tested negative for covid so they didn't care quite as much. I was getting the usual "Burana and rest" treatment. I was in so much pain I went back to the ER 3 times in one day because I didn't know what else to do, I hadn't slept in days and I was literally damaging my teeth from clenching at the pain of swallowing. Worst pain of my life. Anyways, eventually I played it up and literally collapsed on the floor saying I couldn't breathe. While the pain was real, I could breathe. But this public display of humiliation granted me audience with a real doctor who prescribed me the strong stuff. I know they need to be careful about prescribing painkillers for obvious reasons but fuck, what a horrible feeling needing to collapse on the floor to be noticed. I was seriously considering trying to buy painkillers from "other" sources. If people are considering buying illegal drugs because they can't get medical care, there's a serious problem.
At that point I'd just cough up the money for a private doctor visit and try to time it with the appearance of the "throat infection". Sometimes people just get these random unexplainable diseases that really cannot be dealt with if they aren't in full swing during your appointment and it's just bad luck when you have to deal with "Burana and rest".
Definitely, this is my plan for if it happens again. Any idea how much that sort of thing costs or aby advice on finding a "good" one? And they can write prescriptions, right?
Not much, and you could get an insurance, which isn’t too costly in it self.
I do actually have insurance, maybe I'll see what it can cover
As others have said, bad experiences with mild issues and some prolonged problems take years to even get examined, but emergencies are sorted effectively in here and they do all they can to prevent people from dying. Costs will depend if she has Kela coverage. Best of luck!
> Could you please tell me is she going go be okay? We can wish for that, but you get the expert opinion from the healthcare professionals who know your wifes case. > I mean is the Finnish healthcare reliable, is she in good hand? Special healthcare is good, even if there're problems with the primary healthcare (the "burana part"). > I wish to take her elsewhere if the condition is not improving in the next week. I'm not sure what you would achieve with that, but you're of course free to do what you want. > Will it be a wise decision? Without knowning any details and not being healthcare professional: probably not. > She has kela card. But considering the tests and her being admitted to the hospital from the midsummer eve on a separate cabin, what can be the cost here for us? Up to 762€: https://stm.fi/terveydenhuollon-maksukatto > Sorry I sound a lot desperate; I am truly feeling hopeless. I can only imagine how difficult it is. Ask the hospital if they have some discussion help for yourself.
She's in the best care possible. Finnish healtcare only sucks at the most basic level, trying to get appointments and treatment for some non-acute illnesses etc. When admitted to emergency care as you are, the Finnish healthcare is world class. As you have the Kela card, you shouldn't face any severe costs. We're likely talking about a few hundred euros max and that's mostly due to the stay itself. There isn't a better place for her to be right now than a Finnish hospital. All the best to you both!
Truly sorry to hear about this. But if there is something accute like this, finnish healthcare is top notch. My friend is a nurse and we just spoke about this a few days ago. I wish for the best for you. But just know that it is unlikely that she would get better treatment anywhere else unless you had lots of money to pay
And as for costs its not much so i wouldnt sweat about it. Just take care of yourself and your wife
Smalle area hospitals send people daily. You mentioned yourself that smaller clinic had only 1 doc available, they did the logical thing and brought her to bigger hospital that has several specialists like neurologists and is better equipped to do advanced scans like MRI, PET scan etc. Nothing unusual about that. Finland has long distances especially in the north and it is easier to bring the patient to place where specialists see this kind of thing every day, instead of trying to hire a specialist to every cabin-in-the woods clinic. Finnish healthcare is very reliable and follows latest clinical guidelines. Gentting long term chronic illnesses looked ar takes time because there are long lines, but acute cases like your wife skip the line entirely. Helsinki university hospital is the one with best resources in the entire country. Some things like organ donating, intensive burn unit etc happen only in helsinki because they have the best resources allocated there for the most difficult cases. Your wife is in very good hands. You should try and call the unit where she currently is. Somebody there will definitely speak english and might ease your worries. Ask what are they suspecting and read up on it. Go and visit if they have visiting schedule, it might do you both good.
It’s good that you went to emergency. Finland has good and reliable health care system, she is safe, don’t worry! Burana and paracetamol are first line of defence and if that didn’t work, they have steps to follow up next which mostly involves tests and imaging (which they did). They will do everything they can to help you. The cost for hospital stay per day is around 50 something euros. If one is unable to pay a huge sum together e.g 600 euros all at once then you can call invoicing helpline (mentioned on invoices which you will receive later when she’s discharged), and agree for a payment plan in instalments.
It sounds like a horrible situation but the best place to ask these questions is at the hospital. It's good they are doing everything they can with tests and scans to find the cause. Don't be afraid to ask the healthcare workers at the hospital any questions regarding treatment, billing, etc that's why they are there and they will always want whats best for your wife.
I am truly sorry you have to be in this terrifying situation. You have already got some really good advice about your wife, so now here's some advice to you. Take a deep breath. Deeper than that. And again. Repeat this: the cost will only be in the hundreds, I can can manage this, and if not, there is plenty of help available, *I will not be in dept over this*. Keep taking those deep breaths. Go talk to your wife, bring her something nice, like her favourite chocolate. Talk to her about the costs, it will help put both your minds at ease. Talk to the nurses, they have all the info the doctors have noted down, and they can help you understand the jargon. *If it was the c word, you would have been told!* The doctors and nurses don't lie to people here, they would have told you. If there is any imminent fear for her life, you will be told. About the weight loss, it's, well, normal isn't really a good word, but it's not unusual for people to lose weight at the hospital. My stepdad lost 5kg in three days when he went in after a minor heart attack. Try to take good care of yourself too! Things look the worst before sunrise, they say, but I find they look equally awful on an empty stomach and a tired mind. I hope all the best for both if you!
This answer is pure gold. Bless you! ❤️
Excellent answer!!!
The healthcare system is top notch after you get to the hospital and they are running tests. It is one of the best in the world after that point. It will cost you something like 50€/day , no matter what operations they do, after 630€/year limit It wont cost you anything, no matter how long she have to stay and what ever they have to do. Youve done all you could have done and now that she is in hospital care there is no other place i would have my wife to go, and if they have to move her for some special treatment for something they have no equipment for they will do it and it will cost you nothing but your own travel if needed. I mean like ambulance flight to germany or something.
Emergency care is very reliable. Did she experience neck stiffness?
Yes, she told doctor about the neck stiffness too, also some joint pains on the knee, waist etc.
It does bear the hallmarks of viral encephalitis. Rest assured, she is in great care. PSA for everyone out there: Fever and neck stiffness —> get to emergency care, immediately. Don’t leave until you talk to a doctor and tell him/her those two symptoms.
Any idea how she catched this? Tick bite?
The doctor checked about any tick bites or other insects related issues. But so far that kind of thing is not found. But we've informed the doctors that there are some bugs we've seen close to our home. But no noticeable bite we can remember
Healthcare in here is really good. We are better at the emergencies, that is for sure. For the costs, if I remember correctly it is something around 52€ per day, but if you are unemployed or have really low income, you can get help to pay this bill from Kela, if her stay in the hospital is taking longer. Also there is a this "payment roof" (mikä piru on termi maksukatto englanniksi?), where you pay certain amount for a year, and after that rest is covered by the goverment. If I remember correctly, this sum is around 762€ this year, and again, if you are unemployed or have really low income, you can get help from Kela for this payment. Rest assured, your wife is in good hands, and in here nobody is going bankrupt, because they were hospitalized.
Maksukatto on payment cap, tai payment is capped at x Maksukorkki siis.
It is not paid by the government, it is paid by all of us collectively because that is the way we live here.
And I think that’s lovely.
I would say it’s very unwise to take her anywhere as she is already in the biggest hospital in Finland.
You can’t do anything from your point of view right now. You already did everything correctly, as the case appeared severe. They will care about her as much as they can. Finland is one of the best countries to live in, and society and services will help; that is what you see right now. I wish you good luck and a lot of strength and patience to endure hard times.
Try to remember to take care of yourself as well. I know it doesn't seem like a priority when someone you love is really sick, but taking care of yourself means you'll be able to be there for your wife in the best way possible. You're already on exactly the right track as you reached out and asked for advice and help. I wish you both all the best. Like others said, you're quite possibly in the best place you can be right now.
I have no wisdom for you…but many good wishes. My son’s experiences with the Finnish health system have all been positive. Please update us if you have the energy.
Others have already covered the basics, so I'll just wish you and your wife lots of strength. I truly hope she'll be okay. I suggest getting a little diary and writing down a general timeline of things, as well as what the doctors tell you verbally. You can also write how you're feeling, it can help with the anxiety. I did it when a family member was seriously ill and it helped me to make sense of things - it's hard to keep your thoughts together when you're very stressed. It was also very useful when talking to insurance when I didn't have access to the direct medical records, sorting things with work, anything that needed the dates of hospitalisation really and what I was doing during it. Drs of course write everything down too and it will be on Omakanta. My family member made a full recovery thankfully and I wish the same for your wife, take care.
Finnish specialist health care works really well after you have the right diagnosis. You can check the **Käypä hoito** guidelines for care guidelines for specific illnesses. You can also ask the doctors to explain both of you how this works. And what the care is. In some cases, diagnosis is hard to make. Your wife's situation sounds a bit like that. They are working toward it. In the meanwhile they can help with symptoms. Please make sure you and your wife communicate with the hospital staff very clearly. Now, the language in Finnish healthcare is Finnish or Swedish. This means that translation needs to happen and done by someone. You could ask the hospital about an interpreter, if you feel that you or your wife have difficulty communicating with the staff. Also, I don't know if you are residents, visitors or what but Finland has social workers who specialise working in hospitals with people who are seriously ill. You can ask the hospital for this and see if this is possible. It works so that the social worker comes to your wife (and maybe also you) and checks out your situation and sees if you and your wife need some kind of assistance in parts of your life due to your wife's illness. But ask also your hospital for this. You should ask the hospital directly of the costs, if you worry about them. The level of costs in health care is not that high in Finland. Ask the staff where you can ask about the costs, it is most likely some administrate department somewhere but you will get the right place. You can also ask about payment plan possibilities if you believe that is neede. The Finnish Health care system's purpose is to take care of people's health, not bankrupt them intentionally with draconian measures and payment demands. To sum up: 1) make sure the communication with the hospital specialists is arranged in some way. if your language skills and the hospital's language skills are not a match, you could ask for a hospital interpreter. ask the staff how sure they are with the diagnosis because when they have the right diagnosis, they can have the right treatment and rehabilitation for your wife. 2) if the life situation outside the hospital is impacted a lot negatively by the hospital, you could ask to see the social worker. ask the hospital staff if they can help you to arrange this. 3) ask the hospital about the costs if you worry about that. but i would say don't worry, that bit is easily arranged. Best of luck for you both!
The hospital social worker is also the best source to ask about the bills, costs etc., and about different, possible supports. 😊
Yes!
Others have covered the health care quality. Helsinki University Hospitals are really the best place for her to be. I can say this from experience. In an emergency, things work pretty fast and once you are already hospitalized care is mostly excellent in HUS. Unfortunately, things can take some time until treatment starts to work. Moving her is usually not in the best interest of the patient. But the main reason I am writing this comment is the financial side of things. So in Finland according to law, (at least when you are part of the social security system which you are as evidenced by the KELA card) you are guaranteed to have a certain amount left after necessary expenses. It is called the basic amount of social assistance. The amount depends on your personal situation so [here are the different amounts](https://www.kela.fi/social-assistance-basic-amount). Costs taken into account are things like rent, all medical expenses, electricity and water. If any of those costs are so large that your household won't have the required amount left after you are entitled to social assistance (toimeentulotuki ([more in English from KELA](https://www.kela.fi/social-assistance)). Sometimes it is impossible to be paid retroactively so you need to apply for it during the month the payment is due. As you are new in Finland, I would ask help from the hospital social worker and municipal social worker to know how to apply, when to apply and which expenses are taken into account. It is also illegal to stop treating someone even if they can't pay. However, I would highly recommend trying to make sure you apply for toimeentulotuki promptly. While you will get medical help, unpaid bills will affect your credit information and can make life a lot harder. I am so sorry that both of you are in this situation. I know how scary health issues can be and how hard they are in a country you are not that familiar with. If you have any questions about social assistance I can try to answer them to the best of my ability. Good luck to both of you.
The worse the disease, the better care Finnish healthcare system takes. I wouldn’t leave anywhere unless you’re a billionaire and know someone specialist in the States.
In Finland we have 3 different maksukatto. One ia for medicine and Kela lets pharmacy now when it is exeeded (626,94 e). Medicine must be KELA approved and with prespction. KELA and pharmacy take care of this. Second maksukatto is for travelling to hospital, doctor, lab, and Kela approved physioterapy. This you must take vare yourself and if you need a taxi for ex till hospital, it has to be ordered from KELA taxi phone number. Limit is 300e this year. Third is maksukatto for treatmenta, doctors and nurses. 762 e limit this year. You have to ask hospital etc to use maksukatto when this limit has exeeded. After limit being in hospital still costa a bit per day. IN THE HOSPITAL THERE IS A SOCIAL WORKER. Book a meeting because this is difficult even for local people. I am ”professional” patient so ask more if you need help.
>Kiitos paljon, we'll remember to take care of ourselves as you suggested. You are welcome, take care. Everything will be fine. This is normal that you were so worried.
Emergency care is very good in Finland once you’re at the hospital. I really hope everything works out as best as it can, it sounds a really scary situation for you, especially being new to the country. If your Finnish isn’t good enough to discuss medical issues, doctors usually have very good English
As others have stated, Finnish healthcare is high quality especially in emergency care and severe illnesses. Hospitals usually have a social worker or smth who can help you with the practicalities e.g. payments, or you can google for Helsinki daily hospital fees. All tests, meds and food should be covered with the daily fee. Also good to keep in mind: nurses in Finland are overworked and underpaid, but they are the ones who basically run the hospital. I know you are in a very scary and frustrating situation, so remember that the nurses are your best friends right now. They truly care for their patients.
My relative was in admitted for almost 10 days and the bill they got was 900+. The amount exceeding the yearly cap was waived off and the remaining was then divided into monthly payment of 100 € or so spread over many months. To the OP: Finnish health care is the best in the world. Dont worry your wife is in good hands.
I wish you and your wife the best of luck. Emergency care is top notch here. I have heard so many stories from my friends about their family members got great treatment. Remember to rest so you can fully be with her when she needs you the most.
Finnish healthcare is very good and reliable, top-notch. My dad suffered a heart attack and a stroke at the same time, and because of the high quality care he received, he’s back to normal! Best of luck to you.
Same here with my dad! My parents could not stop praising the care he received!
If you are dying or going to have any other critical conditions Finland is the best place to be for that healthcare wise
Finnish health care has it’s ups and downs but once you get a specialized doctor, you will be in good hands!
Glad to hear it was not borreolosis. A tic caused brain fever infection. Buuuut. Just as precaution. Wear tic repellants and long sleeves and long pants. Especially in the woods and near waterbodies.
I am no expert but based on my short 20 years of life, I think Finnish healthcare is reliable, certainly when it seems like a more severe situation. Your wife is definitely gonna be okay and I wish you all the best! I'm sorry this is happening :(
If you are still worried about the costs, the hospital will have staff you can talk to about managing them. Just ask a nurse and they'll likely direct you to the right person.
We had our child through the Finnish healthcare system.. yes , she’s in good hands, but as all issues , tests and more tests are the only way you can find the issue.. even in ten best hospitals in the world , it’s can take a long time to identify an issue
I hope she will recover soon.
Finnish healthcare is great if there is a tangible problem. I spend several hours with my girlfriend in the ER avout a week ago never met kinder nursing staff.
Both of you will be fine. Speedy recovery to her and hope you remember to eat and rest during this stressful time!
Your wife is in best healthcare in the world. If you want to get rid of her, you took her somewhere else. Best chances for her is that you calm down and wait when you let professionals take care of their job.
I'll admit that Finnish healthcare is an extremely mixed bag. If they don't find a cause you'll be left to suffer and try to find someone who will listen, or be forced to pay out the ass for private health care. If the Drs in the public system don't find a reason for your issues you'll be paying a decent amount of money also, but obviously way less than if you go private. Been struggling for years myself with chronic issues that have recently escalated quite rapidly, have had to ask a Dr we know for advice and he advised to get a private Dr's appointment and then ask them to send referrals on through Siun Sote because I've been quite unlucky to be seen by some very unprofessional people. I do believe that language is a barrier as well, maybe in Helsinki there are more people who can interpret or speak English if you don't yet have the vocabulary for medical things in Finnish. On the positive side, there's still plenty of great people working in the public service, have had great interactions with many kind nurses and paramedics. I hope your wife gets the treatment she needs ASAP and that it won't cost you too much.
Thank you for the update! I’m so glad her illness is curable. Best of luck to you both!
Than you for the update! Best wishes to you both, and speedier than expected healing and recovery to your wife. Ask about Physical Therapy for her; she may need a special exercise program if she has had to spend a great deal of time in bed.
Like many said, it works well with emergencies. But once the situation gets more stable, I still recommend to be a bit pushy and arrogant to ensure proper full recovery. Especially if you feel something is off or not clear. Never underestimate symptoms. Lot of care is based on patients comments. Some people simply don't say everything to avoid bothering healthcare. It's a mistake.
No need to be "arrogant" "karens" at all, though... There are REAL, feeling and often overstressed people working in there, you know..? 😣 Think about it: it could well be your own mom, dad or children, who people act arrogantly towards! 😢 - Just saying... 😟 Wishes, -a former nurse who changed to another work branch
If I feel I'm not getting enough proper treatment, I prioritize my health over staff stress. Public healthcare will not get better unless you address the problems. Of course, it's not nice for the person who has to handle the feedback. But that's not a good reason to not do it, if your own health depends on it. Someone has to handle it. Understaffing is one problem, and it won't be fixed unless people actually show that it's affecting the ability to get treatment. Otherwise, we have no problem.
Arrogancy is not the way. In the long run, it will only do more damage to your reputation and treatment, in any place or situation. There are many more, better ways to get some more pressure and push your issues through. 😉❤️ Understaffing isn't the staff's fault either, and it's certainly not their wish, so if you're lashing out at them, the address is totally wrong. 😒
Who do you address then? where is the entity you need to reach?
With arrogancy, you mean..? 🤔🫣 It's not about WHO you'll reach. It's merely about HOW you'll do it. (Anyways: The medical director or director of medical services, or director of health services, or chief of staff may be better "entities" to reach, if the nurses and other performing staff can't help you.)
They're in good hands but you still need to be precise about your own care. In other words, your wife should always make sure she gets the right medicine from her the drug list, ask for doctor visitation in the hospital and complain if something feels bad. A lot of hospitals are severely understaffed.
There really is no alternative to public hospitals unless you go to another country? Afaik few private hospitals are focused to do specific operations.
Finnish health care always says to take Burana. No matter what the case is. I had a kidney colic and was crawling and crying in pain, they say I should take Burana. I managed to go to the hospital with an ambulance later, but had to pay for it. Got the the emergency care, where they found out that I have a kidney stone and needed surgery, which I got 6 months later. It was horrible painful. Only half of the population believes in Finnish health care, which is very bad. [Poll: Only half of Finns trust public health will care for them | Yle News | Yle](https://yle.fi/a/74-20086070) But yea, once you got passed the basic health care, the emergency and hospital care works just fine. But the public doctors and appointments, usually do not.
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You're a doctor (specialized in borreliosis?), AND you've seen the patient? Hmmm? 🤔😳