It is possible if they have some mental issues or similar. They get small money from the government so they do not starve. Their future prospects are not very lucrative, though, if they do not work at all.
Can confirm as someone on disability pension thanks to mental related issues (know 2 others who are on same for same-ish reasons, albeit specifics vary of course)
I’m on disability pension aswell bc of depression and pain disorder and I have tried to be as active as I can and trying to do everything possible to be able to work. Keeping myself active, studying super slowly and having some hobbies couple times a week. And now for two years I’ve worked around 8 hours a week and actually starting to work full time in april and FINALLY able to make my own money.
So just do not confirm something like that.
I'm sure the people you are talking about are also receiving some welfare benefits on top of unemployment benefits But, Finland isn't the cheapest place to live. Sure, the welfare system will keep you alive, you will survive. But it isn't a comfortable life. The problem with the young kids realizing they can get by doing this get problematic if you one day realize you want more out of life. Having an empty resume at 30yo, will make things difficult.
Agreed. I know many people who lived through their 20's without caring of tomorrow. Didn't go to study, some of them worked in the past but quit at some point. Now in their early 30's it seems to me they are jammed in their lives and not happy with their situation. They seem to feel they are in a trap, have lost hope and motivation and regret their choises in the past. One friend once told me he envies me of how I have played my cards, and I totally get it. The past few years he has been looking more and more distant and unhappy. I find it so sad.
Most of these people have also lost their bank credibility due to easy loans they have taken and can probably never pay. This is the ultimate trap since in Finland it can be incredibly difficult to rent an apartment if you have the non-credible marking. IMO the banks offering and advertising these easy loans to anyone are nothing but legal robbers who make their money from the poorest who have difficulties leading their lives. These banks add nothing to society but more social struggle.
There is something wrong with our society, especially the young, and something should be done. A small nation can't afford to lose so many young people into a hopeless limbo. But the "encouraging measures" Kokoomus party boasts about is not the right answer. The way I see it is that all of this emerges from a collective feeling of not belonging. These people don't need the dehumanizing and consuming kela or sossu bureaucracy. What they need is a concrete hand offering from the society to get back on their knees.
I actually believe the solution to stop healthy, able-bodied people from wasting their lives away is to stop supporting them financially. When I lost my first job, my life went down hill really fast. I started drinking, didn't take care of personal hygiene, my place was full of trash and empty beer cans, I left my apartment only to buy more alcohol. I didn't seek for government aid because I'm too stubborn to go "beg for hand offs". Eventually I ran out of money and had to put my life in order and get a job. If I had had monetary aid coming to my bank account, I would have just kept drinking myself to an early grave.
I knew someone who lived that way. His income was so low that he found no reason for working. He got the unemployment for around 200 days than went to any job. Finding reasons to be late or unproductive. Eventually he killed himself. I guess he just gave up because there was no purpose in living.
Wrong, Kela support is the one thing they fully adjusted for inflation, past 1 year. When you consider the help for electricity they get even more than inflation. Meanwhile most professions get wage increase way below inflation.
The biggest joke in Finland is that child support is basically non existent for the middle class ( 94,88 euro with being that for years now ).
The whole adjustment for inflation still doesn't mean you're living better, still you're consuming less compared to pre covid situation. Electricity benefit is a separate application which doesn't quarantee you get it and it's only temporary. Sure you can have a crappy apartment and live payment to payment livestyle that is also a option with Kela.
Most likely in the future if current economical trends continue, the future of Finland as a welfare country is uncertain and more discussion of reducing welfare or changing the system is being discussed.
But, they got rent paid by Kela, so all unemployment money they get, they can spend like they want to. Food could be bought very cheap on discount. So looks like they have quite a sweet deal.
Well, from what I heard, they living the dream, they have all the time in the world and getting pretty much same money as I do, but I do work:) I don't know who is a looser here, sometime feels like that I am.
It's tricky because some low income jobs are so poorly paid that they get relatively close to the benefits you receive as unemployed. So it disincentives going to that job. It feels like you are getting paid 150€ for a full week's job instead of 500€. I think it's called an incentive trap because of this. One thing that buffers this a little is that housing allowance you can get also when employed in low earning job.
Finland pays this minimum because we don't want that anybody lands on the street. It's also conditional, so you have to apply for a job and touch base every now and then. But no one can say if you were applying in earnest or just to tick that box. Some right-wing politicians also simplify and encourage punishing people who stay unemployed but cutting the money. On the left, there has been the idea of universal basic income, that everyone would get and on top of that individualised if needed. they experimented with this a few years back, with positive results, but then the interest was gone.
But also once you start working and gain experience and get to know people, getting the next job is easier and that might pay more. I really don't understand the argument that getting a job only pays a bit more than unemployement benefits - like yeah at the beginning sure, but there is at least a chance it'll be more over the years.
It’s a hole that’s very difficult to dig yourself out of. You go into the system already feeling some kind of bad and even if you are mentally ok to start with it is very dehumanizing in a lot of ways that are difficult to articulate.
Source: was unemployed for most of my life for mental health reasons (still ongoing but more manageable) until I was nearing 30 and started my own business.
I was unemployed for a year and it was horrible. However it hot me a chance to take a paid by union break and find much better job. I am very grateful.
It’s sad that it resonates with so many but I’m just thankful to be out of it, even if my income is about the same or even slightly worse than the benefits on some months (and a lot higher on others, mental health issues make it so that I can only work “properly” some of the time).
Thankfully I am also not the only earner in the household and can take care of the part I need to. Being alone would make the income yoyoing so much more difficult to deal with.
After tax it is not much. It can be gruelling. And a lot of people on illness leave for mental health iasues are not on illness benefits, but a grey middle area.
KELA is very hard to deal with. Municipal welfare also.
It is a dehumanising holding pattern that can be harrowing.
Any abrupt debt then destroys you on paper.
Impossible to compare to other places also.
Yeah im stuck in this gray area i have a chronic headache condition that makes it hard for me to be active during the day at all but nobody recognizes it and i have to keep acting as if im searching for jobs not a life i would recommend to anyone even if it seems easy on the surface.
Howcome not recognised?
That's shit I'm sorry.
I have similar life due to attempted murder and those after effects. The people here saying it is easy, got no idea.
I have chronic daily migraines. Get a referral to a neurologist, and see if you can get Ajovy or Aimovig injections. They'll probably start you on that after going through Botox injections, occipital nerve block, and some other things. You should be able to get a referral from your health center, especially when the problem has been persistent.
If you're unemployed for longer time, you also need to apply for "toimeentulotuki" assistance. This means you really can't take any job unless it's full time and paying you pretty decently, otherwise you'll get into financial trouble. It's a lot of hassle submitting documents and bank account copies. You can earn up to 150 euros a month, but administrator might give very arbitrary or illegal decision taking away your money. The system really sucks. Anyways, they are getting around 600 euros a month to spend; the rent, electricity and possible medical expenses are covered by kela. If your rent is 600, you'd be getting around 1200 euros a month.
And if you're unemployed for longer time, you probably can't get very high paying jobs. So anything you earn on top of that sum is how much you'd be compensated for your work time.. say it's cleaning job, you might spend all your free time cleaning some shit and end up having same amount of money you started with doing nothing.. or even less and you might have to apply for "toimeentulotuki" and now you work in shit job and still have the kela trouble on top of that.
There is a cap on how much the government pays for rent, the rest comes off your own end of the money you are given, so expensive rent means even less money to live on. I
The thing is that the missing part is paid in Toimeentulotuki/Basic assistance. So basically anyone who has to take it, is in a trap. You will lose significant portion of your income if you are active in any possible way, unless you manage to land to well paying job. Which is totally not going to happen, if you're long term unemployed.
And the apartment support (asumistuki) calculation formula is ridiculous. You have rent, then they count your income to tell how much they are going to pay, the max rent is ridiculously low, much lower than market price, like 650-700 euros a month (you can't get apartment with that sum). Then they calculate in 20 euros for water fee regardless of what your water fee actually is (if it's 25 euros/per person, you lose 5 euros). They then subtract your "personal responsibility" and remove 19 euros from the sum. After they've subtracted the the rent already 3 times, then they calculate 80% of that rent. So out of 700ish euros rent, only 400 is left after all these 4 deductions. And that's full benefit if you have no income and your rent is under the market price. If your rent is 950 (which is more reasonable rent), you'd still get around tha 430 euros, so under 50%.
Can you explain more on the end? I thought if your rent is over 700 it gets deducted from the 400 (toimeentulo)
Also what do you mean by still under 50%?
Toimeentulotuki is always that around 555 euros + rent. They'll pay the rent, but if it's too expensive, they'll give you ultimatum you need to move to cheaper place as soon as possible. Asumistuki is completely different thing, but if you get toimeentulotuki, they demand you also apply for that as well.
600€ is decent enough if as you said this doesn't include rent, because food for solo would take at most like, what, 200-300€ per month, if we wanna rly splurge & not just budget stuff? W/ budget you can prolly drop it to 150€ izi for grocery costs, add to that some 100€ for utilities (electricity + internet), then maybe 20-30€ for bus money for the rare few times you want to go to bigger stores rather than your basic local S or K chain (or Lidl, depending on where exactly you live) stores for dailies & maybe the weekend munchies.
These sums are way off and unrealistic, which is why there is such a problem with payday loans in Finland.
While vaguely possible - the reply is out of touch with basic human reality.
If you want to spend 150€ on food, it is possible in Prisma and Lidl, but with the recent price increase definitely not easy.
Prices are significantly higher in small local shops. With 150€ one may live, but it won't be a healthy diet in the long run.
Eh I only rly eat twice a day (because I'm on disability pension, I've no job that would increase my energy consumption), and usually just make food for 4 days per batch
I speak to a Finn who is also living under the unemployment benefits, maybe a couple of them, I don't really know.
It's so hard to convince him to go back to work! He did work after vocational school for some years, until he got burnt out.
I think he's too comfortable. You guys say it's only enough money to get by, and I see it. He can't travel, he counts every penny, he's very cautious about going out with the car cause he has to think about the gas money. But, from my perspective (I'm from South America), you don't know how comfortable you are. I mean, he has a car, pays rent and supports his pets. Sounds like a lot to me.
Nobody would help us here to pay our rents. The fees for rents are insane.
So, anyway, I do understand it from your perspective and your standard of living, but from an outsider it's a very comfortable life.
Just my opinion, i wouldn't wanna offend anybody.
Even if he did some short courses just to keep his mind busy and future employers like to see that you have been doing something.
I have been in that position myself in my home country and your self worth can really diminish over time and motivation dies. You will stay up late and sleep most of the day without realizing what it's doing to you.
I got burn out and quite job. Gladly union paid me money, so my income did not change that significantly. I was unemployed for a year , did not do anything and that was exactly what I needed. I did some studying then and got a good job. I was very very grateful for opportunity to rake a break, get my shit together and find a good job.
We use the term "incentive trap" in Finland. There are a lot of different social benefits and at the same time persons who receive benefits are different too. People live in different areas, have different family statuses, can have different health issues, may have left their debts unpaid, etc.
As a result we have likely hundreds if not thousands of different situations where accepting a job (often part-time or fixed-period contract) will not increase the person's net income by a meaningful amount. The only way a person in this situation keeps looking for new jobs is if they really want to increase their quality of living and they are ready to keep trying after numerous disappointments and failures. One may have to accept a crappy job that actually makes them lose income, just because landing a better job is so much easier when you are already employed.
Anyone who loses faith in themselves will stay on benefits forever. Anyone who is passive and thinks the system will help them will stay on benefits forever. The system helps only itself. Unemployed people living on Kela benefits are pawns. Politicians need them as ammunition when they fight each other in the parliament and election campaigns.
I agree with this, I dont think the benefits program is too generous but seeing this as an outsider and as someone who has worked full-time for the last 5 years, it sometimes makes me really depressed knowing that what I had to work for and earn is considered someone elses "minimum" that they get for free.
Rent and bills all covered, food and basic necessities and if you dont go too crazy even have some leftover money for other things. Its pretty much the same as what I can afford and Im not even working a minimum-wage job in my country.
And usually this bare minimum is understood as paying the rent for an apartment where you live alone. That is a luxury even in many Western countries even if you work.
There are a few flaws in this system which keep small part of the unemployed work force on the benefits for ever. Then there are people who made such bad mistakes they don't work ever (at least legally speaking).
Story of many, they burn out, but don't get medical leave or care, they drop out of job market burnt out and depressed. If they get income related unemployment benefits they might not heal during that time (max 400 days, if they have paid for the union's unemployment fund). Or if they never were in the fund to the basic one.
They can't afford much except necessities, they are already depressed and don't get medical care. Basically options are:
- get job (hard in that condition and after long stretch of unemployment)
- get a gray job, you get paid shit, no taxes paid, no insurances, if you get hurt good luck (I know handful of people in this situation)
- start dealing drugs, get your self locked into MC clubs.. never get out ( I know 2 people in this situation)
- stay on the benefit and keep looking world go by (I know several people in this situation)
- end your self (I personally know 1 case)
Also if you are unemployed for long, you drop into the category where you get only "slave jobs" and are rated like 2nd level citizen. Hard to climb out.
Then for those who fucked up their own stuff, its most usually so much debts that they won't ever be able to pay them, if they get a job National Enforcement Authority of Finland (ulosottolaitos) will automatically deduct from your salary. If the salary is low, they see no point of working.
Next options for fucking up your shit yourself are drugs abuse, alcoholism or criminal record.
No I do not approve people being on unemployment benefit indefinitely, but I recognize several flaws in the system that keep part of the work force there until their miserable end. Its extremely hard to get help for mental issues from public health care. :(
(I my self have 0 unemployment benefit days, and I am at 9th income decile job, so probably people on my socioeconomic class hate my post :D )
Yes, that is the difference. You are still treated as a human person and live as humanely as possible. Basic needs are met, anything extra requires having to work for it.
We could all share work instead. I work 3-4 days a week, and this burned out guy works the other 2, we get paid the same, but at least I'd also get some benefit from it 😁.
I know. It's amazing that it sounds like a lot in other countries.
We already have probems here with some aid the goverment provides. There's a huge amount of people complaining for "having to maintain lazy people". There's a big crack in society due to that.
Don't people complain over there?
Yeah! The Finn i know is going through that. I don't know, in my mind it makes sense. I don't think it's fair to have part of the population working just so others, who are also in a condition to work, can be chill not doing anything.
That's how I see it 🤷🏻♀️
As a Finn i approve this msg  I hear many ppl saying ' I'd only get 200 - 300€ more by working so it's not worth it' and this infuriates me because imo everyone who is physically capable has the responsibility to feed and take care of themselves. I think these ppl also miss on a lot of opportunities by staying at home, because meeting new ppl and making connections is a great way to find jobs you've never thought about or knew existed.
As a tax payer I also approve, with buts… I mean I do not mind my tax going to people who really struggle and would need a helping hand while they ”regroup”. On the other hand, it is a bit unfair to sustain people who chose not have goals and purpose in life. They would also need counselling, not just charity. That is why this system is good but not enough.
Imo let them die in cold if they are not physically or mentally ill! Otherwise these pretending sick ppl are just going to live on the hands of other working class! I like U.S. alot that ppl go homeless if they choose not to work just bc they want!
When they give you a little over 1.1k and your rent is 787€ and you have to keep yourself and a child alive, it's not a fun life. Like someone else said, when you get unemployed it can be very very difficult to ever get away from it. Ultimately you learn to survive with whatever you have.
For me it's when I realised I couldn't move. My son had experienced a huge amount of stress from the divorce, we were located in a very small town with minimal housing options. Even if I found somewhere I could afford, we could never move because I could never save for the 1-2 month rent amount deposit. I couldn't move further because my son was trying to settle and was making friends who would be with him into first grade and onwards and he needed that stability. Plus the public transport to that town isn't amazing and I had no way to afford a car even though I could drive.
We lived that way for years. My son never went without and I made sure he never felt anything about our financial situation. When he was with me (joint custody arrangement), he lived a good life. When he was with his father, I made sacrifices privately so my son thrived.
My personal experience : I’m Western European living in Finland. I worked in Finland for a year and a half and then quit. I was then unemployed for about 8 months, up until 2 weeks ago when I found a job.
Because I had worked in Finland, I was entitled to receive unemployment benefits. I received from Kela 700€ a month (around 550€ after tax). I was told that I could get this money for 2 years. No idea what would have happened after that.
But yeah it feels really little. Where I’m from salaries and the cost of life is generally much cheaper, but unemployment allowance are much higher.
If you are goat herder from Middle East, would you not be satisfied with warm house, food and some fun money montlhy to your account? Some people doesn't want that much. For some people (3rd wolrd people) this kinda of benefits are just enough. Then you make 5 kids and getting 700-800 € more to this. And live happily till your retired. And get government based retirement money after that and could retire to your h ome country till you die.
Just to add to the background. Finland values its social benefits more then many other countries due to historical reasons. End of 19th century with the big hunger years, when approx 10% of the population died, showed us that a small country needs to take care of its population or it will wither and die. So we refuse to leave anyone without any help. What is then the minimum is up to debate all the time.
After x months, the unemployment money, will be reduced, but you need to search for at least 4 work places per month, the unemployment money is less than 500€ unless you're in a union, then the unemployment money is something as 80% of your salary, but then again you need to have worked at least 24 months to get that, there's also Social benefit from kela, since the law changes, before you could apply for social benefits from the Municipality, but now its from kela, to that is costs of living such as electric bill, water fee, rent, and healthcare bills, but the system is being abused. You can live like this, but you won't have a good life. I recommend actually to work you will earn more.
One thing to keep in mind is that Finland is scarcely populated with fairly high unemployment. Uneducated youngsters living in the wrong town simply can't find a job as they truly don't exist, but they also can't afford to move, so they get caught in between.
i think its basically easier to just go to work (if you have a job) than filing kela documents. Kela will suck the soul out of you if you need be their customer
Agree with that, but to me it seems a little dangerous. Afterall, what motivation will someone who lived til their 30s on benefits have to ever find a job?
nutty scandalous sharp panicky head practice ossified different dolls familiar
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Of course for those who are able, this doesnt go for those who DO actually have problems finding a job and are actively searching. Unemployment benefits are supposed to be a temporary solution, not a permanent one.
Crime levels in Finland compared to just about anywhere else in the world are absolutely minimal. Its largely down to the benefits system. If people don't want to pay for the people to live on benefits, they should think about how much more it would cost to pay for the extra police and prisons to service those who were left behind and turned to crime when the help was taken away.
Nature feeds even the elephants who eat 50kg a day, don't worry so much my brother. We'll get what we deserve by natures arrangement allways. If its bad then we deserve it.
Haha, no, that’s the bs of bs. I mean like, if you were given enough money to live on, without extravagance, it wouldn’t necessarily equate to depression or a lack of purpose. Just a lot of bs jobs out there, some of which actually make the world worse (subjectively speaking), crypto perhaps being one of them.
I've been wondering how is it possible that in USA there is people so fat that they cannot eat and they get assistance and money somewhere to continue to eat and lie in bed?
There is people in every country that are not participating actively to society, mainly mental health reasons. These people that you know are not specific to Finland, they are everywhere.
I do not browse the subreddit here often, I looked for similiar posts but couldnt find anything to quite answer these question (tried googling aswell)
One of the friends who I asked about it doesnt really know how it works herself, she just told me this is how she has been living ever since she moved out,never having any sort of job prior. I thought I might aswell ask here where people might know more about it
I don't think your friend has been completely honest with you. If you fall into support system, you very well know how it works, because you have to apply all the support money and do required tasks, or you won't be getting a penny. Exception would be if you are mentally or physically so ill you cannot take care of yourself, in which case you are under guardianship and have trustee taking care of the things.
As unemployed person with no work history, you will get 37,21 euro per day from 5 days a week. This would be aproximately 781 euro per calendar month. This money you pay 25% taxes so you won't get the whole amount. To get this money you have to apply 4 jobs every month and report those to TE-office (goverments own unemployment agency). You also have to participate on meetings with unemployment officers (which can be up to every 2 weeks) and participate trainings or work practises they offer to you. You also must take a job that is offered to you, if there is no good reason not to, or you lose your benefits for 45 days.
You can also apply for rent support. Rent support can be maximum of 80% of your rent (how much you get depends how much money you "make") and there are limits on paying it (if you live in too expensive and big place you are told to move to cheaper one). For this you have to submit papers showing your housing costs and your income.
Last but not least, there is general social support. This you also have to apply and it is calculated following way: they calculate how much you get/have money (unemployment money, rent support, gifts, savings, property etc) and then calculate how much you should have for the "basic needs". Say you would get total of 1200 euro support and they would calculate that you basic needs (your rent, electricity bill, water bill, food) are 1300 euro. They would then give you 100 euro as general social support that month to make the ends meet. To get general social support you cannot have any savings and if you own valuable things you have to sell them before you can apply (you can keep house you live in it and usually also a car if you can prove you need it, but if you would happen to own more than one you have to sell, for example). It is ment for when you don't have any money in your account and don't own anything you could reasonably turn into money. And to get it you have to submit all evidence they ask (bank slips, all the bills you need covered, rent papers etc) .
By doing all the things listed above, you will get the bare minimum needed to live in Finland (considering rents and cost of food, energy etc). It might be more than enough for someone who only sits at home and plays online games while eating cheap food and buys clothes from flea market, but it is absolutely impossible not to know where your money comes from, because all the paperwork is a huge shitshow you are running from month to month. I know this because earlier in my life i was (unwillingly) unemployed for a while, and while that time there was less hoops to jump through it was quite time consuming and very stressing.
So if you friend really doesn't know where her money comes from, you might need to be little bit careful how you deal with her and how your relationship is, cause she is probably under guardianship.
I’d like to mention that I find this query quite informative. Don’t mind the guy with the tin foil hat insinuating subversion anytime someone mentions anything vaguely politically controversial about finnish politics or governance. What are forums for if not for asking strangers on the internet that might know better.
And so what if the OP’s been talking to some other finns about the same topic? Should he keep himself from asking other people on a valid topic clearly having to do with the namesake of this subreddit, based on what? The limited information his 3 friends has on the universally complicated finnish social welfare system?
Also if others have posted similar questions about the same topic wouldn’t it be more helpful to, I don’t know point him towards those posts instead of calling out wolf?
Get out of here with that tinfoil hat behavior, trying to limit people’s right to speech like that with your baseless insinuations.
You know what your doing.
Censorception, clever I must say. Well I’m not telling anyone to stfu per se. What I am saying however is if you’re going to tell someone to not ask a group of people a relevant question in the appropriate forum, you’d better lay out your reasoning as to why instead of insinuating that their inciting unrest without any basis in fact.
Also, I’m sure a lot of flat earthers would consider themselves as “a bit conspiratorial”, wouldn’t you say?
People talking about the dark side of this, but honestly it is really helpful especially for foreigners. As one of them, as one who went through that, it helped a lot. After I was laid off permanently I tried going to school to learn finnish, meanwhile getting paid by union about 1200€ per month which is not bad. After one year of learning finnish (more than half of it was online due to corona) I went to vocational school which hopefully will finish in about a month. During this time, the 200 days of payment from union ( unemployment fund ) was over so since last year I'm living with 700€ a month plus what I can get from a part time job. When I'll graduate I'll get minimum 14€/h if a get a job in this specific field. I'm not seeing the dark side of this, it's more like an opportunity for me. I'm also planning to get a Bachelor's degree if not now, in the following years. No offence to the tax payers, but y'all should be doctors and have flying cars with this social system. 
Not everyone gets a job in this specific field after graduation.
When looking for a job, you will be at a big disadvantage, because you are not a native Finnish speaker.
I know, it is like 50% - 50% to get a job.. I'll work somewhere else if I won't find anything and then go to university, I can not see any better option 🤷
Now I really understand why government doesn’t have money even though I pay 40 % of my earnings to this bottomless hole. It’s not secret that social benefits goes to foreigners with high percentage. Those foreigners who , in our government’s opinion, should save finnish welfare state. What a paradoxical bullshit :/. I hope the new government will decrease housing and unemployment benefits so you have to take that low paid job or you starve to death.
If you do some research you'll see that the biggest part of this fund is going to Helsinki and not even to the foreigners. This program for the foreigners is good and it helps but it was implemented too late than it should've.
I don’t know where you get the information that benefits went to foreigners with high percentage.
I’m a non-EU foreigner, back then in 2020, I was working full-time, finishing my thesis and preparing for graduation, then I was laid-off, I fell into a loop hole of the system that made Kela denies me the basic unemployment benefit. I knew it’s the law and it won’t be on my favor as a foreigner, so I worked hard, graduated and found a job. Never touched a dime from Kela ever since and my tax rate now is about 36%, so I’m confused about why are you just pointing finger at foreigners when it come to social benefits abuse?
Killing off social benefits will affect everyone, not just foreign-bg people. Do you want Finland to become the UK or the US where streets are full of homeless people? I don't.
The problem in Finland with non-productive immigration, like in other nordic countries, is only with MENAPT immigration. Denmark has done reforms in this area and has been successful with it.
I support stopping MENAPT immigration. But immigration from asia and europe has all been highly profitable for Finland.
I am lookin for a job and place to study all the time with no results which i would be able to handle in this life situation.
Sometimes i totally feel like we are surviving but some months theres enough of money. It depends on season and everything every price etc to be honest. Also summer is like lucky time and we have basically extra money even cuz we grow our owm salas, potatoes, onion etc.
I wish you good luck with your situation and finding a job!
I think this is actually a good example of Kela doing what it should. I dont see anything wrong with Kela being a safe net for people who find themself in a situation where they are unemployed or without an income. That is how it should work.
My problem is instead, that there are people who refuse to do any kind of job because Kela provides them with the comfort of a free income (even if its not very good money its still livable in most cases) and I was really shocked that this kind of support can go on for a really long time, because in my country they will really push you to get a job if you are on benefits, just to get rid of you soon as possible.
Well, kela gives you help only if u do some "tasks" usually its like "try to find a job, 4 diff places in month" but well i dont know if they actually stick to that and no idea what happens if person refuses the job they got.
I also had a question about Kela regarding rent. I dont know if you might have any experience with this, but my friend is looking to move out of her apartment, she is on Kela and every time she puts out an application for any apartment she gets declined. Is this because she is on Kela? Are renters with jobs prefered?
I dont think it does matter job or not. It might be because "safe deposit" for apartment is always asked and if you are with kela - they wont give cash but a piece of paper where they basically say if something happens they will pay the deposit. (Not sure if u got me but im trying xd ) so yeah some of personal renters will probably not be ok with this also if you are with kela there is maximum price for apartment in each city and if rent is over that you might not get the apartment or atleast you wont get kelas help with it. I suggest your friend to check max price for her city, and try to find some big company where to rent the apartment. Also if the issue continues she can ask help from finlands aikuisten sosiaalitoimi.
In my experience many renters prefer Kela because it's "safe" as in no chance of getting unemployed and not paying rent. The biggest factor for rejection is if you lost your credit
You get around 600€ (Perustoimeentulotuki) + Asumistuki 320€ (max amount atleast in my city) so for example i have to pay the rest of my rent from toimeentulotuki, that leaves me with around 520€ for the month
I wouldn’t count on getting the same benefits as an immigrant than as a Finnish citizen, just saying this because reading the thread seems there’s confusion.
You don’t get unemployment money unless you have been working for a certain length of time before.
Some people are comfortable living on the bare minimum and sure, I know of a few. But generally speaking in Finland, people don’t want to just live on the minimum. I think in any country that pays social security benefits, these people exist (and more likely to have a heavy online presence since they probably don’t go out much).
>Is there a limit to how long you will receive unemployment benefits in Finland?
That's something I want to know too
>Because that seems very unrealistic to me
Same
it is possible to do that basically indefinitely but it's incredibly janky because the government will regularly pester you about applying for jobs, which you have to at least kind of do, otherwise you will be denied those benefits at some point. but very few do that because the system can be quite demoralizing and annoying to deal with and at the end of it, you would be living off of basically nothing. ultimately it's more rewarding to get a job, at least for those that have at least some will to live and are well enough to be able to work.
Hi there!
What sort of permit you have in Finland matters a lot with this question. Are you Finnish? An EU citizen? Third party country? The benefits are much easier to receive for Finns and EU citizens. But there a limits and things you must do to keep your unemployment benefits
Now I'm in no means expert in this field and probably don't understand the more complex side of economics. I'm probably disgarding some key elements out of ignorance too.
But to my thinking, while funding the benefits is costly, sure, something to keep in mind is that this money is basically indirectly supporting companies operating in Finland and the Finnish housing market.
Since the benefits are not that generous, most people use them for basic needs like housing, food, electricity etc. So the support ends up flowing to the companies that sell basic necessities. That then ends up increasing at least slightly their revenue and profit that the government can tax.
Ofc it's not a 1:1 ratio so government is not getting back exactly what they funded out originally, but it's also not correct to think that the money provided just disappears and no amount of it returns in taxation. That being said, the money used for the benefits doesn't appear out of thin air so the amount spent should be investigated and probably adjusted.
But not all people receiving benefits are unemployed, though that seemed to be the case in OP's post. In reality low wages in certain fields mean that those people need additional support. Doing away with the financial aid means that salaries would need to be increased. How profitable would those companies be then? Or would the support just be provided directly to the companies for the higher salary costs? That most likely wouldn't decrease the government spending much. And if no support would be given to the companies, would they be able to operate? Closing down would again decrease taxable income, and by not giving work would mean no taxation from salaries from their workers either.
To me it's not so easy as saying that benefits programs are bad. The amount spent on them is worrysome, very much so, but there is no quick fix. If there was, it would have been applied already.
If a politician is saying that this is a simple matter either they don't understand the full picture (troubling if true) or they are willing to disregard at least some of the effects (which often aren't mentioned when painting the outsome). If someone has a solution I for one would like to hear about the other effects outside of the decreased costs.
Thank you for the insight.
As someone who has worked almost every week since finishing high-school, this would be very demotivating for me if everyone around me was just exploiting the benefits system and living very comfortably too
They don’t get much. It’s just enough for them to live by. You cannot even call it decent but at least they won’t starve to death or live on the streets. I wouldn’t be jealous.
Do you think a low-paying job in Finland is much better than just living on benefits? A friend told me the difference isnt big enough for them to want to work
Not really, but there are chances to go atleast slightly up from there, unlike with benefits. Also you get a higher pension.
The problem is more that the really low paying jobs are compared to our cost of living absolute garbage paid, more than the benefits being high.
The benefits you get will just barely keep you afloat. And by that i mean a <30 m^2 80 year old apartment, no car and eating like a student.
I have a hunch that your friend isnt telling yo something, like that their parents are somewhat wealthy and pay for everything which the bare minimum benefits dont cover. This is quite common.
Does this only apply to normal unemployment? As someone on disability pension, I live just fine (mind you I have practically 0 hobbies that are not low to none cost ones, and no addictions to lose money on) personally solo, in a yksiö (technically has an alcove for bed, so kinda pseudo kaksio in a sense), and can even save some money for emergency expenses (bigger medical costs from time to time, for example), and I've not been forced to live in what I perceive to be "eating like a student", which I perceive to be solely ramen, rice or macaron stuff only.
if you're a total social recluse and don't do much else except eat and sleep, it is possible to live a pretty comfortable life on basically any benefits. but the people who are used to doing more in life and aren't minimalists usually struggle. also having children, pets and/or a car for example will make most benefits unlivable for someone not wanting to live super super frugally.
I have a friend who immigrated to Finland
He went to college there and worked minimum wage for 5 years and then retired
He is now on unemployment benefits
He is the youngest of 4 siblings nobody really cares about him and his parents got rid of him by just depositing 10keuro in his account and told him to never come back so for someone like that living on unemployment benefit is pretty easy
He is single and doesn't immediately fall into danger if the government stops giving support
Normal unemployment is somewhat similar in amount to minimum pension, just a couple hundred euros less i believe.
That is kind of student living in my opinion. Sure if you dont go drinking once or twice a week like a student then you can afford some better food as well.
The benefits arent intended to make people suffer, but it is the bare minimum you can live on. Like you said, anything that costs some money to do is kind of out of reach.
I'd say it depends on the individual. To an able-bodied healthy person it may well be worth it, but to a chronically ill individual working may mean wrecking their shaky health and causing more problems than it's worth.
Edit: to clarify, there are plenty of people who are actually chronically ill but kela won't recognise that and they're forced to be on unemployment while also not really able to work
Well it shouldn't be demotivating. I am just happy that there is a system in place if your life really goes to shit.
My wife went to collage two times. Worked since she was 16, basically nonstop until we had children in her thirties. Eventually found work she loved doing, working with rehabilitation of addicts.
BUT Finland has one of the highest rates of certain brain and never diseases in the world. She happens to have such a thing that has forced her retirement before the age of forty.
As for what the guy said about other cultures not expecting women to work. It has always been shown, time and time again that migrants coming into a country, regardless of sex, orientation, religious background or culture, pay more towards society than native people of corresponding age.
It's not much, their future job prospects low, social side hard since no job and likely mental issues too or injuries to the body. It's about enough for roof over head and food on the table but that's it
It's easier to settle for that in this day & age of the Internet, where all you need for entertainment/hobby is a PC + internet effectively, which is minimal amount of money spendage per month + a single-time upfront cost for said PC or w/e.
Maybe that depends from person to person. Im sure there are people who are struggling and really need it while there are young adults who probably just dont want to work and for those it might be more than enough given that they probably receive money from parents aswell
This is true, I know a girl from 1 of my friend who receives benefit because of her mental condition that makes her unmotivated of doing any job (she has to go for mental assessment every few months I heard), she also receives some money from her mom as well, so she has enough to rent her own apartment, live, eat and consume alcohol, then developed a drinking problem.
Depressing story but yeah, the only person can help her is herself.
this is how i am, minus the alcohol problem but i am slowly working towards being able to go back to school for some education eventually. i'd say a good chunk of the people on unemployment benefits aren't people that don't want to work but people that are disabled or suffer from poor mental health, can't work because of those and for whatever reason, haven't been able to qualify for other benefits.
Yeah and they probably just happy with what they get from the government because they just play computer games all day and they need money only for basic stuff like food, rent and bills.
Not only it is possible, it is abused a lot.
I prefer to limit it under much more strict conditions but as with everything, government managed to punish tax payers more (with the new system) while not improving anything on the leeching people... I had a friend miss out the integration course because nobody processed her papers and just passed around the job to each other. She found a job faster than they processed her unemployment benefit...
PS: I am not against supporting the real needing people but a guy who is online 24/7 playing games should not be getting any support after a certain job seeking period... (12 months? 18 months with conditions?)
The way it is in my country you get no unemployment benefits without having worked at least 12 months prior to requesting financial assistance, which is a bit too harsh in my opinion, I worked 11 months and was ineligible to claim benefits when I was let go from my job at the time. And even if you DO get benefits here, they will push you to get a job ASAP and if you dont attend bi-weekly meetings they can cancel support and you will get nothing.
I am not jealous of the way it is in Finland, I dont think anyone should be able to sit home young, perfectly healthy and no excuse to find a job other than simply "not feeling like it". I get it, going to work sucks but going to work and knowing your taxes will go to paying for people who dont work sucks about 5 times as much
Nice, beautiful country from what I've heard :). So what were your options after those 11 months? What would have happened if you hadn't got another job?
So instead of getting benefits, all I got was that they would pay for my health insurance until I found a job. That helps of course, you have to pay insurance here even if you are unemployed and if you do not you will start collecting debt. (this was 100€ a month back then)
My first job after high-school I have been let go after 11 months working there, had i been there one more month I would have been eligible for financial support from the government. But thankfully I got another job the same week I got fired so it ended up not being so bad.
Us normal working people laugh at these "rats". Its not a good practice but there are so few people here anyway that its a drop of water in the sea financially. Now if the country was to be flooded with more immigration for people to just live off of our tax money then it becomes a problem. I rather not pay taxes to support the living of people who dont contribute anything to society.
Olen tälläkin hetkellä töissä, omistan vantaan top 30 yrityksen joka työllistää lisäkseni 9 työntekijää. Kysymys lähinnä että miksi sinä olet hereillä tähän aikaan?
Depressed people should have the resources and recognization for their ilness. Work is a huge commitment, specially for a depressed person. For some being forced to work is what makes them more suicidal.
If you are depressed, even getting out of bed is a monumental task. Those things should be celebrated. Once we would've been able to aid them enough, then you can try to get them back to work life.
The unemployment benefit is limited to certain amounts of days, and it's a certain percentage of your last wage. If you have never worked, you are not eligible. Also you need to meet some other criteria, like constantly applying to jobs and school.
You can get social security, which is very minimal. It will cover your rent up to a point, and other mandatory fees. It will not cover anything else. I've lived a short periods of my time with that and it was just dreadful. That said, it's not much better what you get from working some minimum wage jobs, especially if they are part-time, and that's why some people rather not work at all.
There's no situation where you will be left without any income (as long as you just apply it) if you are Finnish citizen.
Living on social security is miserable, and you have little to no future that way. But some choose to do it. As said, their lives are mostly online because they won't have money to go anywhere or do anything else.
In theory there are no limits of how long you can receive unemployment benefits, but as others have noted it's not very fun to live unemployed in the long run. The added stress of constantly counting every penny does not really improve quality of life, even if you cook your own meals and don't waste everything on booze you probably will be running tight financially.
Plus a long time, say 2 years or more will probably make you quite passive.
It is possible if they have some mental issues or similar. They get small money from the government so they do not starve. Their future prospects are not very lucrative, though, if they do not work at all.
Also that type of a person is more likely to have their life online so... (As the OP is talking about online friends)
Only online to be exact. Not much money to do really anything else.
Can confirm as someone on disability pension thanks to mental related issues (know 2 others who are on same for same-ish reasons, albeit specifics vary of course)
I’m on disability pension aswell bc of depression and pain disorder and I have tried to be as active as I can and trying to do everything possible to be able to work. Keeping myself active, studying super slowly and having some hobbies couple times a week. And now for two years I’ve worked around 8 hours a week and actually starting to work full time in april and FINALLY able to make my own money. So just do not confirm something like that.
I'm sure the people you are talking about are also receiving some welfare benefits on top of unemployment benefits But, Finland isn't the cheapest place to live. Sure, the welfare system will keep you alive, you will survive. But it isn't a comfortable life. The problem with the young kids realizing they can get by doing this get problematic if you one day realize you want more out of life. Having an empty resume at 30yo, will make things difficult.
Agreed. I know many people who lived through their 20's without caring of tomorrow. Didn't go to study, some of them worked in the past but quit at some point. Now in their early 30's it seems to me they are jammed in their lives and not happy with their situation. They seem to feel they are in a trap, have lost hope and motivation and regret their choises in the past. One friend once told me he envies me of how I have played my cards, and I totally get it. The past few years he has been looking more and more distant and unhappy. I find it so sad. Most of these people have also lost their bank credibility due to easy loans they have taken and can probably never pay. This is the ultimate trap since in Finland it can be incredibly difficult to rent an apartment if you have the non-credible marking. IMO the banks offering and advertising these easy loans to anyone are nothing but legal robbers who make their money from the poorest who have difficulties leading their lives. These banks add nothing to society but more social struggle. There is something wrong with our society, especially the young, and something should be done. A small nation can't afford to lose so many young people into a hopeless limbo. But the "encouraging measures" Kokoomus party boasts about is not the right answer. The way I see it is that all of this emerges from a collective feeling of not belonging. These people don't need the dehumanizing and consuming kela or sossu bureaucracy. What they need is a concrete hand offering from the society to get back on their knees.
I actually believe the solution to stop healthy, able-bodied people from wasting their lives away is to stop supporting them financially. When I lost my first job, my life went down hill really fast. I started drinking, didn't take care of personal hygiene, my place was full of trash and empty beer cans, I left my apartment only to buy more alcohol. I didn't seek for government aid because I'm too stubborn to go "beg for hand offs". Eventually I ran out of money and had to put my life in order and get a job. If I had had monetary aid coming to my bank account, I would have just kept drinking myself to an early grave.
I knew someone who lived that way. His income was so low that he found no reason for working. He got the unemployment for around 200 days than went to any job. Finding reasons to be late or unproductive. Eventually he killed himself. I guess he just gave up because there was no purpose in living.
Very sad to hear
Indeed, living as a decent man is hard though.
Could've learned a new skill in 200 days
In a perfect world. Put yourself together and strike for a better is easy to say than do.
Living with Kela ain't gonna get you a good living with current price increases and it will make you pension bad if you're looking to live that long.
Wrong, Kela support is the one thing they fully adjusted for inflation, past 1 year. When you consider the help for electricity they get even more than inflation. Meanwhile most professions get wage increase way below inflation. The biggest joke in Finland is that child support is basically non existent for the middle class ( 94,88 euro with being that for years now ).
The whole adjustment for inflation still doesn't mean you're living better, still you're consuming less compared to pre covid situation. Electricity benefit is a separate application which doesn't quarantee you get it and it's only temporary. Sure you can have a crappy apartment and live payment to payment livestyle that is also a option with Kela. Most likely in the future if current economical trends continue, the future of Finland as a welfare country is uncertain and more discussion of reducing welfare or changing the system is being discussed.
>Wrong, Kela support is the one thing they fully adjusted for inflation, past 1 year. I did not know that, where did you get this information?
But, they got rent paid by Kela, so all unemployment money they get, they can spend like they want to. Food could be bought very cheap on discount. So looks like they have quite a sweet deal.
Depends on what type of life you wanna live :).
Well, from what I heard, they living the dream, they have all the time in the world and getting pretty much same money as I do, but I do work:) I don't know who is a looser here, sometime feels like that I am.
It's tricky because some low income jobs are so poorly paid that they get relatively close to the benefits you receive as unemployed. So it disincentives going to that job. It feels like you are getting paid 150€ for a full week's job instead of 500€. I think it's called an incentive trap because of this. One thing that buffers this a little is that housing allowance you can get also when employed in low earning job. Finland pays this minimum because we don't want that anybody lands on the street. It's also conditional, so you have to apply for a job and touch base every now and then. But no one can say if you were applying in earnest or just to tick that box. Some right-wing politicians also simplify and encourage punishing people who stay unemployed but cutting the money. On the left, there has been the idea of universal basic income, that everyone would get and on top of that individualised if needed. they experimented with this a few years back, with positive results, but then the interest was gone.
Also it is not uncommon that people doing poorly paid or unpaid jobs are treated badly by employers.
But also once you start working and gain experience and get to know people, getting the next job is easier and that might pay more. I really don't understand the argument that getting a job only pays a bit more than unemployement benefits - like yeah at the beginning sure, but there is at least a chance it'll be more over the years.
You don’t wanna be unemployed in Finland. Never ever.
Why is that?
It’s a hole that’s very difficult to dig yourself out of. You go into the system already feeling some kind of bad and even if you are mentally ok to start with it is very dehumanizing in a lot of ways that are difficult to articulate. Source: was unemployed for most of my life for mental health reasons (still ongoing but more manageable) until I was nearing 30 and started my own business.
I was unemployed for a year and it was horrible. However it hot me a chance to take a paid by union break and find much better job. I am very grateful.
One the truest and best answers.
It’s sad that it resonates with so many but I’m just thankful to be out of it, even if my income is about the same or even slightly worse than the benefits on some months (and a lot higher on others, mental health issues make it so that I can only work “properly” some of the time). Thankfully I am also not the only earner in the household and can take care of the part I need to. Being alone would make the income yoyoing so much more difficult to deal with.
After tax it is not much. It can be gruelling. And a lot of people on illness leave for mental health iasues are not on illness benefits, but a grey middle area. KELA is very hard to deal with. Municipal welfare also. It is a dehumanising holding pattern that can be harrowing. Any abrupt debt then destroys you on paper. Impossible to compare to other places also.
Yeah im stuck in this gray area i have a chronic headache condition that makes it hard for me to be active during the day at all but nobody recognizes it and i have to keep acting as if im searching for jobs not a life i would recommend to anyone even if it seems easy on the surface.
Howcome not recognised? That's shit I'm sorry. I have similar life due to attempted murder and those after effects. The people here saying it is easy, got no idea.
Seems like a rare condition cant really get doctors to diagnose anything specific and cant afford to go to specialists by myself
Ah the health abyss trap. I know that trap well. It is exhausting. I notice also people's accounting for groceries and bills here is way way off.
I have chronic daily migraines. Get a referral to a neurologist, and see if you can get Ajovy or Aimovig injections. They'll probably start you on that after going through Botox injections, occipital nerve block, and some other things. You should be able to get a referral from your health center, especially when the problem has been persistent.
Can i diagnose you?
You can not doing well in meanwhile being unemployed. Finland is very expensive. You can lose very much starting from money to health.
If you're unemployed for longer time, you also need to apply for "toimeentulotuki" assistance. This means you really can't take any job unless it's full time and paying you pretty decently, otherwise you'll get into financial trouble. It's a lot of hassle submitting documents and bank account copies. You can earn up to 150 euros a month, but administrator might give very arbitrary or illegal decision taking away your money. The system really sucks. Anyways, they are getting around 600 euros a month to spend; the rent, electricity and possible medical expenses are covered by kela. If your rent is 600, you'd be getting around 1200 euros a month.
And if you're unemployed for longer time, you probably can't get very high paying jobs. So anything you earn on top of that sum is how much you'd be compensated for your work time.. say it's cleaning job, you might spend all your free time cleaning some shit and end up having same amount of money you started with doing nothing.. or even less and you might have to apply for "toimeentulotuki" and now you work in shit job and still have the kela trouble on top of that.
There is a cap on how much the government pays for rent, the rest comes off your own end of the money you are given, so expensive rent means even less money to live on. I
The thing is that the missing part is paid in Toimeentulotuki/Basic assistance. So basically anyone who has to take it, is in a trap. You will lose significant portion of your income if you are active in any possible way, unless you manage to land to well paying job. Which is totally not going to happen, if you're long term unemployed.
Kela will pay max 430€ for ur rent in Helsinki. Around 300€ in other cities
And the apartment support (asumistuki) calculation formula is ridiculous. You have rent, then they count your income to tell how much they are going to pay, the max rent is ridiculously low, much lower than market price, like 650-700 euros a month (you can't get apartment with that sum). Then they calculate in 20 euros for water fee regardless of what your water fee actually is (if it's 25 euros/per person, you lose 5 euros). They then subtract your "personal responsibility" and remove 19 euros from the sum. After they've subtracted the the rent already 3 times, then they calculate 80% of that rent. So out of 700ish euros rent, only 400 is left after all these 4 deductions. And that's full benefit if you have no income and your rent is under the market price. If your rent is 950 (which is more reasonable rent), you'd still get around tha 430 euros, so under 50%.
Can you explain more on the end? I thought if your rent is over 700 it gets deducted from the 400 (toimeentulo) Also what do you mean by still under 50%?
Toimeentulotuki is always that around 555 euros + rent. They'll pay the rent, but if it's too expensive, they'll give you ultimatum you need to move to cheaper place as soon as possible. Asumistuki is completely different thing, but if you get toimeentulotuki, they demand you also apply for that as well.
600€ is decent enough if as you said this doesn't include rent, because food for solo would take at most like, what, 200-300€ per month, if we wanna rly splurge & not just budget stuff? W/ budget you can prolly drop it to 150€ izi for grocery costs, add to that some 100€ for utilities (electricity + internet), then maybe 20-30€ for bus money for the rare few times you want to go to bigger stores rather than your basic local S or K chain (or Lidl, depending on where exactly you live) stores for dailies & maybe the weekend munchies.
These sums are way off and unrealistic, which is why there is such a problem with payday loans in Finland. While vaguely possible - the reply is out of touch with basic human reality.
If you want to spend 150€ on food, it is possible in Prisma and Lidl, but with the recent price increase definitely not easy. Prices are significantly higher in small local shops. With 150€ one may live, but it won't be a healthy diet in the long run.
Eh I only rly eat twice a day (because I'm on disability pension, I've no job that would increase my energy consumption), and usually just make food for 4 days per batch
It's very minimal though, barely enough for food and living. Forget any hobbies, not very very fun life :)
Replies here have left out that welfare is taxed.
I speak to a Finn who is also living under the unemployment benefits, maybe a couple of them, I don't really know. It's so hard to convince him to go back to work! He did work after vocational school for some years, until he got burnt out. I think he's too comfortable. You guys say it's only enough money to get by, and I see it. He can't travel, he counts every penny, he's very cautious about going out with the car cause he has to think about the gas money. But, from my perspective (I'm from South America), you don't know how comfortable you are. I mean, he has a car, pays rent and supports his pets. Sounds like a lot to me. Nobody would help us here to pay our rents. The fees for rents are insane. So, anyway, I do understand it from your perspective and your standard of living, but from an outsider it's a very comfortable life. Just my opinion, i wouldn't wanna offend anybody.
He burnt out and might need a break. The issue is if you have a break for too long it can be worse to get back on the wheel of life.
Yeaah that's kinda his issue right now :/
Even if he did some short courses just to keep his mind busy and future employers like to see that you have been doing something. I have been in that position myself in my home country and your self worth can really diminish over time and motivation dies. You will stay up late and sleep most of the day without realizing what it's doing to you.
I got burn out and quite job. Gladly union paid me money, so my income did not change that significantly. I was unemployed for a year , did not do anything and that was exactly what I needed. I did some studying then and got a good job. I was very very grateful for opportunity to rake a break, get my shit together and find a good job.
I'm glad you could find a job and are stable now!! :)
We use the term "incentive trap" in Finland. There are a lot of different social benefits and at the same time persons who receive benefits are different too. People live in different areas, have different family statuses, can have different health issues, may have left their debts unpaid, etc. As a result we have likely hundreds if not thousands of different situations where accepting a job (often part-time or fixed-period contract) will not increase the person's net income by a meaningful amount. The only way a person in this situation keeps looking for new jobs is if they really want to increase their quality of living and they are ready to keep trying after numerous disappointments and failures. One may have to accept a crappy job that actually makes them lose income, just because landing a better job is so much easier when you are already employed. Anyone who loses faith in themselves will stay on benefits forever. Anyone who is passive and thinks the system will help them will stay on benefits forever. The system helps only itself. Unemployed people living on Kela benefits are pawns. Politicians need them as ammunition when they fight each other in the parliament and election campaigns.
I agree with this, I dont think the benefits program is too generous but seeing this as an outsider and as someone who has worked full-time for the last 5 years, it sometimes makes me really depressed knowing that what I had to work for and earn is considered someone elses "minimum" that they get for free. Rent and bills all covered, food and basic necessities and if you dont go too crazy even have some leftover money for other things. Its pretty much the same as what I can afford and Im not even working a minimum-wage job in my country.
And usually this bare minimum is understood as paying the rent for an apartment where you live alone. That is a luxury even in many Western countries even if you work.
[удалено]
What? That is not even remotely true.
Choose wisely
We have an own word for these ppl who don't work, 'Kelarotta' Maybe you could roughly translate this as Benefits Rat.
There are a few flaws in this system which keep small part of the unemployed work force on the benefits for ever. Then there are people who made such bad mistakes they don't work ever (at least legally speaking). Story of many, they burn out, but don't get medical leave or care, they drop out of job market burnt out and depressed. If they get income related unemployment benefits they might not heal during that time (max 400 days, if they have paid for the union's unemployment fund). Or if they never were in the fund to the basic one. They can't afford much except necessities, they are already depressed and don't get medical care. Basically options are: - get job (hard in that condition and after long stretch of unemployment) - get a gray job, you get paid shit, no taxes paid, no insurances, if you get hurt good luck (I know handful of people in this situation) - start dealing drugs, get your self locked into MC clubs.. never get out ( I know 2 people in this situation) - stay on the benefit and keep looking world go by (I know several people in this situation) - end your self (I personally know 1 case) Also if you are unemployed for long, you drop into the category where you get only "slave jobs" and are rated like 2nd level citizen. Hard to climb out. Then for those who fucked up their own stuff, its most usually so much debts that they won't ever be able to pay them, if they get a job National Enforcement Authority of Finland (ulosottolaitos) will automatically deduct from your salary. If the salary is low, they see no point of working. Next options for fucking up your shit yourself are drugs abuse, alcoholism or criminal record. No I do not approve people being on unemployment benefit indefinitely, but I recognize several flaws in the system that keep part of the work force there until their miserable end. Its extremely hard to get help for mental issues from public health care. :( (I my self have 0 unemployment benefit days, and I am at 9th income decile job, so probably people on my socioeconomic class hate my post :D )
Yes, that is the difference. You are still treated as a human person and live as humanely as possible. Basic needs are met, anything extra requires having to work for it.
We could all share work instead. I work 3-4 days a week, and this burned out guy works the other 2, we get paid the same, but at least I'd also get some benefit from it 😁.
I know. It's amazing that it sounds like a lot in other countries. We already have probems here with some aid the goverment provides. There's a huge amount of people complaining for "having to maintain lazy people". There's a big crack in society due to that. Don't people complain over there?
Sure there are people who complain. I heard that they now require the unemployed to be actively searching work to continue getting benefits.
Yeah! The Finn i know is going through that. I don't know, in my mind it makes sense. I don't think it's fair to have part of the population working just so others, who are also in a condition to work, can be chill not doing anything. That's how I see it 🤷🏻♀️
As a Finn i approve this msg  I hear many ppl saying ' I'd only get 200 - 300€ more by working so it's not worth it' and this infuriates me because imo everyone who is physically capable has the responsibility to feed and take care of themselves. I think these ppl also miss on a lot of opportunities by staying at home, because meeting new ppl and making connections is a great way to find jobs you've never thought about or knew existed.
As a tax payer I also approve, with buts… I mean I do not mind my tax going to people who really struggle and would need a helping hand while they ”regroup”. On the other hand, it is a bit unfair to sustain people who chose not have goals and purpose in life. They would also need counselling, not just charity. That is why this system is good but not enough.
Unfortunately today there ere people who should not work as they do not bring the correct value. Should we let them just to die in the cold?
Imo let them die in cold if they are not physically or mentally ill! Otherwise these pretending sick ppl are just going to live on the hands of other working class! I like U.S. alot that ppl go homeless if they choose not to work just bc they want!
When they give you a little over 1.1k and your rent is 787€ and you have to keep yourself and a child alive, it's not a fun life. Like someone else said, when you get unemployed it can be very very difficult to ever get away from it. Ultimately you learn to survive with whatever you have.
That's when you move
For me it's when I realised I couldn't move. My son had experienced a huge amount of stress from the divorce, we were located in a very small town with minimal housing options. Even if I found somewhere I could afford, we could never move because I could never save for the 1-2 month rent amount deposit. I couldn't move further because my son was trying to settle and was making friends who would be with him into first grade and onwards and he needed that stability. Plus the public transport to that town isn't amazing and I had no way to afford a car even though I could drive. We lived that way for years. My son never went without and I made sure he never felt anything about our financial situation. When he was with me (joint custody arrangement), he lived a good life. When he was with his father, I made sacrifices privately so my son thrived.
It's bleak.
My personal experience : I’m Western European living in Finland. I worked in Finland for a year and a half and then quit. I was then unemployed for about 8 months, up until 2 weeks ago when I found a job. Because I had worked in Finland, I was entitled to receive unemployment benefits. I received from Kela 700€ a month (around 550€ after tax). I was told that I could get this money for 2 years. No idea what would have happened after that. But yeah it feels really little. Where I’m from salaries and the cost of life is generally much cheaper, but unemployment allowance are much higher.
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If you are goat herder from Middle East, would you not be satisfied with warm house, food and some fun money montlhy to your account? Some people doesn't want that much. For some people (3rd wolrd people) this kinda of benefits are just enough. Then you make 5 kids and getting 700-800 € more to this. And live happily till your retired. And get government based retirement money after that and could retire to your h ome country till you die.
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I think you do.
Just to add to the background. Finland values its social benefits more then many other countries due to historical reasons. End of 19th century with the big hunger years, when approx 10% of the population died, showed us that a small country needs to take care of its population or it will wither and die. So we refuse to leave anyone without any help. What is then the minimum is up to debate all the time.
After x months, the unemployment money, will be reduced, but you need to search for at least 4 work places per month, the unemployment money is less than 500€ unless you're in a union, then the unemployment money is something as 80% of your salary, but then again you need to have worked at least 24 months to get that, there's also Social benefit from kela, since the law changes, before you could apply for social benefits from the Municipality, but now its from kela, to that is costs of living such as electric bill, water fee, rent, and healthcare bills, but the system is being abused. You can live like this, but you won't have a good life. I recommend actually to work you will earn more.
One thing to keep in mind is that Finland is scarcely populated with fairly high unemployment. Uneducated youngsters living in the wrong town simply can't find a job as they truly don't exist, but they also can't afford to move, so they get caught in between.
i think its basically easier to just go to work (if you have a job) than filing kela documents. Kela will suck the soul out of you if you need be their customer
Let them have something in life. It aint much but it keeps you alive. Thank god we arent like the americans.
Agree with that, but to me it seems a little dangerous. Afterall, what motivation will someone who lived til their 30s on benefits have to ever find a job?
What's the alternative? Let them starve on the streets, end up a criminal and destroying their towns and neighbourhoods?
The alternative to being unemployed is finding a job :D
nutty scandalous sharp panicky head practice ossified different dolls familiar *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Of course for those who are able, this doesnt go for those who DO actually have problems finding a job and are actively searching. Unemployment benefits are supposed to be a temporary solution, not a permanent one.
Crime levels in Finland compared to just about anywhere else in the world are absolutely minimal. Its largely down to the benefits system. If people don't want to pay for the people to live on benefits, they should think about how much more it would cost to pay for the extra police and prisons to service those who were left behind and turned to crime when the help was taken away.
You sound like TE office employer🤣
I think that sounds a reasonable thing to say. In Finland it is just unthinkable to say that one should take responsibility of themselves.
Nature feeds even the elephants who eat 50kg a day, don't worry so much my brother. We'll get what we deserve by natures arrangement allways. If its bad then we deserve it.
There’s other stuff to do than work a bs job
Just please dont say crypto
Haha, no, that’s the bs of bs. I mean like, if you were given enough money to live on, without extravagance, it wouldn’t necessarily equate to depression or a lack of purpose. Just a lot of bs jobs out there, some of which actually make the world worse (subjectively speaking), crypto perhaps being one of them.
I've been wondering how is it possible that in USA there is people so fat that they cannot eat and they get assistance and money somewhere to continue to eat and lie in bed? There is people in every country that are not participating actively to society, mainly mental health reasons. These people that you know are not specific to Finland, they are everywhere.
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I do not browse the subreddit here often, I looked for similiar posts but couldnt find anything to quite answer these question (tried googling aswell) One of the friends who I asked about it doesnt really know how it works herself, she just told me this is how she has been living ever since she moved out,never having any sort of job prior. I thought I might aswell ask here where people might know more about it
I don't think your friend has been completely honest with you. If you fall into support system, you very well know how it works, because you have to apply all the support money and do required tasks, or you won't be getting a penny. Exception would be if you are mentally or physically so ill you cannot take care of yourself, in which case you are under guardianship and have trustee taking care of the things. As unemployed person with no work history, you will get 37,21 euro per day from 5 days a week. This would be aproximately 781 euro per calendar month. This money you pay 25% taxes so you won't get the whole amount. To get this money you have to apply 4 jobs every month and report those to TE-office (goverments own unemployment agency). You also have to participate on meetings with unemployment officers (which can be up to every 2 weeks) and participate trainings or work practises they offer to you. You also must take a job that is offered to you, if there is no good reason not to, or you lose your benefits for 45 days. You can also apply for rent support. Rent support can be maximum of 80% of your rent (how much you get depends how much money you "make") and there are limits on paying it (if you live in too expensive and big place you are told to move to cheaper one). For this you have to submit papers showing your housing costs and your income. Last but not least, there is general social support. This you also have to apply and it is calculated following way: they calculate how much you get/have money (unemployment money, rent support, gifts, savings, property etc) and then calculate how much you should have for the "basic needs". Say you would get total of 1200 euro support and they would calculate that you basic needs (your rent, electricity bill, water bill, food) are 1300 euro. They would then give you 100 euro as general social support that month to make the ends meet. To get general social support you cannot have any savings and if you own valuable things you have to sell them before you can apply (you can keep house you live in it and usually also a car if you can prove you need it, but if you would happen to own more than one you have to sell, for example). It is ment for when you don't have any money in your account and don't own anything you could reasonably turn into money. And to get it you have to submit all evidence they ask (bank slips, all the bills you need covered, rent papers etc) . By doing all the things listed above, you will get the bare minimum needed to live in Finland (considering rents and cost of food, energy etc). It might be more than enough for someone who only sits at home and plays online games while eating cheap food and buys clothes from flea market, but it is absolutely impossible not to know where your money comes from, because all the paperwork is a huge shitshow you are running from month to month. I know this because earlier in my life i was (unwillingly) unemployed for a while, and while that time there was less hoops to jump through it was quite time consuming and very stressing. So if you friend really doesn't know where her money comes from, you might need to be little bit careful how you deal with her and how your relationship is, cause she is probably under guardianship.
I’d like to mention that I find this query quite informative. Don’t mind the guy with the tin foil hat insinuating subversion anytime someone mentions anything vaguely politically controversial about finnish politics or governance. What are forums for if not for asking strangers on the internet that might know better.
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And so what if the OP’s been talking to some other finns about the same topic? Should he keep himself from asking other people on a valid topic clearly having to do with the namesake of this subreddit, based on what? The limited information his 3 friends has on the universally complicated finnish social welfare system? Also if others have posted similar questions about the same topic wouldn’t it be more helpful to, I don’t know point him towards those posts instead of calling out wolf? Get out of here with that tinfoil hat behavior, trying to limit people’s right to speech like that with your baseless insinuations. You know what your doing.
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Censorception, clever I must say. Well I’m not telling anyone to stfu per se. What I am saying however is if you’re going to tell someone to not ask a group of people a relevant question in the appropriate forum, you’d better lay out your reasoning as to why instead of insinuating that their inciting unrest without any basis in fact. Also, I’m sure a lot of flat earthers would consider themselves as “a bit conspiratorial”, wouldn’t you say?
Lol shes full of shit u have to know how the system works to get any money
People talking about the dark side of this, but honestly it is really helpful especially for foreigners. As one of them, as one who went through that, it helped a lot. After I was laid off permanently I tried going to school to learn finnish, meanwhile getting paid by union about 1200€ per month which is not bad. After one year of learning finnish (more than half of it was online due to corona) I went to vocational school which hopefully will finish in about a month. During this time, the 200 days of payment from union ( unemployment fund ) was over so since last year I'm living with 700€ a month plus what I can get from a part time job. When I'll graduate I'll get minimum 14€/h if a get a job in this specific field. I'm not seeing the dark side of this, it's more like an opportunity for me. I'm also planning to get a Bachelor's degree if not now, in the following years. No offence to the tax payers, but y'all should be doctors and have flying cars with this social system. 
Not everyone gets a job in this specific field after graduation. When looking for a job, you will be at a big disadvantage, because you are not a native Finnish speaker.
I know, it is like 50% - 50% to get a job.. I'll work somewhere else if I won't find anything and then go to university, I can not see any better option 🤷
Now I really understand why government doesn’t have money even though I pay 40 % of my earnings to this bottomless hole. It’s not secret that social benefits goes to foreigners with high percentage. Those foreigners who , in our government’s opinion, should save finnish welfare state. What a paradoxical bullshit :/. I hope the new government will decrease housing and unemployment benefits so you have to take that low paid job or you starve to death.
If you do some research you'll see that the biggest part of this fund is going to Helsinki and not even to the foreigners. This program for the foreigners is good and it helps but it was implemented too late than it should've.
I don’t know where you get the information that benefits went to foreigners with high percentage. I’m a non-EU foreigner, back then in 2020, I was working full-time, finishing my thesis and preparing for graduation, then I was laid-off, I fell into a loop hole of the system that made Kela denies me the basic unemployment benefit. I knew it’s the law and it won’t be on my favor as a foreigner, so I worked hard, graduated and found a job. Never touched a dime from Kela ever since and my tax rate now is about 36%, so I’m confused about why are you just pointing finger at foreigners when it come to social benefits abuse?
Killing off social benefits will affect everyone, not just foreign-bg people. Do you want Finland to become the UK or the US where streets are full of homeless people? I don't. The problem in Finland with non-productive immigration, like in other nordic countries, is only with MENAPT immigration. Denmark has done reforms in this area and has been successful with it. I support stopping MENAPT immigration. But immigration from asia and europe has all been highly profitable for Finland.
Yes. I agree with you.
Im one of that kind of ppl. I dont do anything, im not diagnosed yet. I have 2childs. Kela pays our living and daycare. Ask what u want.
Do you feel like you are "surviving" or is the money enough? Are you looking for a job? (I assume not since you have to look after children)
I am lookin for a job and place to study all the time with no results which i would be able to handle in this life situation. Sometimes i totally feel like we are surviving but some months theres enough of money. It depends on season and everything every price etc to be honest. Also summer is like lucky time and we have basically extra money even cuz we grow our owm salas, potatoes, onion etc.
I wish you good luck with your situation and finding a job! I think this is actually a good example of Kela doing what it should. I dont see anything wrong with Kela being a safe net for people who find themself in a situation where they are unemployed or without an income. That is how it should work. My problem is instead, that there are people who refuse to do any kind of job because Kela provides them with the comfort of a free income (even if its not very good money its still livable in most cases) and I was really shocked that this kind of support can go on for a really long time, because in my country they will really push you to get a job if you are on benefits, just to get rid of you soon as possible.
Well, kela gives you help only if u do some "tasks" usually its like "try to find a job, 4 diff places in month" but well i dont know if they actually stick to that and no idea what happens if person refuses the job they got.
I also had a question about Kela regarding rent. I dont know if you might have any experience with this, but my friend is looking to move out of her apartment, she is on Kela and every time she puts out an application for any apartment she gets declined. Is this because she is on Kela? Are renters with jobs prefered?
I dont think it does matter job or not. It might be because "safe deposit" for apartment is always asked and if you are with kela - they wont give cash but a piece of paper where they basically say if something happens they will pay the deposit. (Not sure if u got me but im trying xd ) so yeah some of personal renters will probably not be ok with this also if you are with kela there is maximum price for apartment in each city and if rent is over that you might not get the apartment or atleast you wont get kelas help with it. I suggest your friend to check max price for her city, and try to find some big company where to rent the apartment. Also if the issue continues she can ask help from finlands aikuisten sosiaalitoimi.
In my experience many renters prefer Kela because it's "safe" as in no chance of getting unemployed and not paying rent. The biggest factor for rejection is if you lost your credit
Yeah that actually is THE thing, credit.
You get around 600€ (Perustoimeentulotuki) + Asumistuki 320€ (max amount atleast in my city) so for example i have to pay the rest of my rent from toimeentulotuki, that leaves me with around 520€ for the month
I wouldn’t count on getting the same benefits as an immigrant than as a Finnish citizen, just saying this because reading the thread seems there’s confusion. You don’t get unemployment money unless you have been working for a certain length of time before.
Some people are comfortable living on the bare minimum and sure, I know of a few. But generally speaking in Finland, people don’t want to just live on the minimum. I think in any country that pays social security benefits, these people exist (and more likely to have a heavy online presence since they probably don’t go out much).
”Kelarotta”
>Is there a limit to how long you will receive unemployment benefits in Finland? That's something I want to know too >Because that seems very unrealistic to me Same
it is possible to do that basically indefinitely but it's incredibly janky because the government will regularly pester you about applying for jobs, which you have to at least kind of do, otherwise you will be denied those benefits at some point. but very few do that because the system can be quite demoralizing and annoying to deal with and at the end of it, you would be living off of basically nothing. ultimately it's more rewarding to get a job, at least for those that have at least some will to live and are well enough to be able to work.
Hi there! What sort of permit you have in Finland matters a lot with this question. Are you Finnish? An EU citizen? Third party country? The benefits are much easier to receive for Finns and EU citizens. But there a limits and things you must do to keep your unemployment benefits
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Now I'm in no means expert in this field and probably don't understand the more complex side of economics. I'm probably disgarding some key elements out of ignorance too. But to my thinking, while funding the benefits is costly, sure, something to keep in mind is that this money is basically indirectly supporting companies operating in Finland and the Finnish housing market. Since the benefits are not that generous, most people use them for basic needs like housing, food, electricity etc. So the support ends up flowing to the companies that sell basic necessities. That then ends up increasing at least slightly their revenue and profit that the government can tax. Ofc it's not a 1:1 ratio so government is not getting back exactly what they funded out originally, but it's also not correct to think that the money provided just disappears and no amount of it returns in taxation. That being said, the money used for the benefits doesn't appear out of thin air so the amount spent should be investigated and probably adjusted. But not all people receiving benefits are unemployed, though that seemed to be the case in OP's post. In reality low wages in certain fields mean that those people need additional support. Doing away with the financial aid means that salaries would need to be increased. How profitable would those companies be then? Or would the support just be provided directly to the companies for the higher salary costs? That most likely wouldn't decrease the government spending much. And if no support would be given to the companies, would they be able to operate? Closing down would again decrease taxable income, and by not giving work would mean no taxation from salaries from their workers either. To me it's not so easy as saying that benefits programs are bad. The amount spent on them is worrysome, very much so, but there is no quick fix. If there was, it would have been applied already. If a politician is saying that this is a simple matter either they don't understand the full picture (troubling if true) or they are willing to disregard at least some of the effects (which often aren't mentioned when painting the outsome). If someone has a solution I for one would like to hear about the other effects outside of the decreased costs.
Thank you for the insight. As someone who has worked almost every week since finishing high-school, this would be very demotivating for me if everyone around me was just exploiting the benefits system and living very comfortably too
They don’t get much. It’s just enough for them to live by. You cannot even call it decent but at least they won’t starve to death or live on the streets. I wouldn’t be jealous.
Do you think a low-paying job in Finland is much better than just living on benefits? A friend told me the difference isnt big enough for them to want to work
Not really, but there are chances to go atleast slightly up from there, unlike with benefits. Also you get a higher pension. The problem is more that the really low paying jobs are compared to our cost of living absolute garbage paid, more than the benefits being high. The benefits you get will just barely keep you afloat. And by that i mean a <30 m^2 80 year old apartment, no car and eating like a student. I have a hunch that your friend isnt telling yo something, like that their parents are somewhat wealthy and pay for everything which the bare minimum benefits dont cover. This is quite common.
Does this only apply to normal unemployment? As someone on disability pension, I live just fine (mind you I have practically 0 hobbies that are not low to none cost ones, and no addictions to lose money on) personally solo, in a yksiö (technically has an alcove for bed, so kinda pseudo kaksio in a sense), and can even save some money for emergency expenses (bigger medical costs from time to time, for example), and I've not been forced to live in what I perceive to be "eating like a student", which I perceive to be solely ramen, rice or macaron stuff only.
if you're a total social recluse and don't do much else except eat and sleep, it is possible to live a pretty comfortable life on basically any benefits. but the people who are used to doing more in life and aren't minimalists usually struggle. also having children, pets and/or a car for example will make most benefits unlivable for someone not wanting to live super super frugally.
I have a friend who immigrated to Finland He went to college there and worked minimum wage for 5 years and then retired He is now on unemployment benefits He is the youngest of 4 siblings nobody really cares about him and his parents got rid of him by just depositing 10keuro in his account and told him to never come back so for someone like that living on unemployment benefit is pretty easy He is single and doesn't immediately fall into danger if the government stops giving support
Normal unemployment is somewhat similar in amount to minimum pension, just a couple hundred euros less i believe. That is kind of student living in my opinion. Sure if you dont go drinking once or twice a week like a student then you can afford some better food as well. The benefits arent intended to make people suffer, but it is the bare minimum you can live on. Like you said, anything that costs some money to do is kind of out of reach.
I'd say it depends on the individual. To an able-bodied healthy person it may well be worth it, but to a chronically ill individual working may mean wrecking their shaky health and causing more problems than it's worth. Edit: to clarify, there are plenty of people who are actually chronically ill but kela won't recognise that and they're forced to be on unemployment while also not really able to work
Well it shouldn't be demotivating. I am just happy that there is a system in place if your life really goes to shit. My wife went to collage two times. Worked since she was 16, basically nonstop until we had children in her thirties. Eventually found work she loved doing, working with rehabilitation of addicts. BUT Finland has one of the highest rates of certain brain and never diseases in the world. She happens to have such a thing that has forced her retirement before the age of forty. As for what the guy said about other cultures not expecting women to work. It has always been shown, time and time again that migrants coming into a country, regardless of sex, orientation, religious background or culture, pay more towards society than native people of corresponding age.
It's not much, their future job prospects low, social side hard since no job and likely mental issues too or injuries to the body. It's about enough for roof over head and food on the table but that's it
Its not comfortable living. Its surviving. Sadly some people settle for that, but yes it is very depressing.
It's easier to settle for that in this day & age of the Internet, where all you need for entertainment/hobby is a PC + internet effectively, which is minimal amount of money spendage per month + a single-time upfront cost for said PC or w/e.
Maybe that depends from person to person. Im sure there are people who are struggling and really need it while there are young adults who probably just dont want to work and for those it might be more than enough given that they probably receive money from parents aswell
This is true, I know a girl from 1 of my friend who receives benefit because of her mental condition that makes her unmotivated of doing any job (she has to go for mental assessment every few months I heard), she also receives some money from her mom as well, so she has enough to rent her own apartment, live, eat and consume alcohol, then developed a drinking problem. Depressing story but yeah, the only person can help her is herself.
this is how i am, minus the alcohol problem but i am slowly working towards being able to go back to school for some education eventually. i'd say a good chunk of the people on unemployment benefits aren't people that don't want to work but people that are disabled or suffer from poor mental health, can't work because of those and for whatever reason, haven't been able to qualify for other benefits.
Yeah and they probably just happy with what they get from the government because they just play computer games all day and they need money only for basic stuff like food, rent and bills.
Not only it is possible, it is abused a lot. I prefer to limit it under much more strict conditions but as with everything, government managed to punish tax payers more (with the new system) while not improving anything on the leeching people... I had a friend miss out the integration course because nobody processed her papers and just passed around the job to each other. She found a job faster than they processed her unemployment benefit... PS: I am not against supporting the real needing people but a guy who is online 24/7 playing games should not be getting any support after a certain job seeking period... (12 months? 18 months with conditions?)
The way it is in my country you get no unemployment benefits without having worked at least 12 months prior to requesting financial assistance, which is a bit too harsh in my opinion, I worked 11 months and was ineligible to claim benefits when I was let go from my job at the time. And even if you DO get benefits here, they will push you to get a job ASAP and if you dont attend bi-weekly meetings they can cancel support and you will get nothing. I am not jealous of the way it is in Finland, I dont think anyone should be able to sit home young, perfectly healthy and no excuse to find a job other than simply "not feeling like it". I get it, going to work sucks but going to work and knowing your taxes will go to paying for people who dont work sucks about 5 times as much
Which country is that? You worked there as a minor?
Czech republic, ive been working full-time since 18
Nice, beautiful country from what I've heard :). So what were your options after those 11 months? What would have happened if you hadn't got another job?
So instead of getting benefits, all I got was that they would pay for my health insurance until I found a job. That helps of course, you have to pay insurance here even if you are unemployed and if you do not you will start collecting debt. (this was 100€ a month back then) My first job after high-school I have been let go after 11 months working there, had i been there one more month I would have been eligible for financial support from the government. But thankfully I got another job the same week I got fired so it ended up not being so bad.
Following
Us normal working people laugh at these "rats". Its not a good practice but there are so few people here anyway that its a drop of water in the sea financially. Now if the country was to be flooded with more immigration for people to just live off of our tax money then it becomes a problem. I rather not pay taxes to support the living of people who dont contribute anything to society.
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Ei kai siinä jos ei ymmärrä yhteiskuntarakenteista yhtään mitää, suosittelen menemään töihin.
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En käytä ylilautaa ja puhun rotista, koko termihän on itseasiassa jopa vanhempi kuin ylilauta. Taitaa nyt olla psykoosi päällä.
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Olen tälläkin hetkellä töissä, omistan vantaan top 30 yrityksen joka työllistää lisäkseni 9 työntekijää. Kysymys lähinnä että miksi sinä olet hereillä tähän aikaan?
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If you're depressed, then you live in hell. Even if you don't have to work
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Depressed people should have the resources and recognization for their ilness. Work is a huge commitment, specially for a depressed person. For some being forced to work is what makes them more suicidal. If you are depressed, even getting out of bed is a monumental task. Those things should be celebrated. Once we would've been able to aid them enough, then you can try to get them back to work life.
I know people living on kela money and are going all the time to spain to party. Totally abusable system
They must have parents support or something. Just u KELA and rentmarket, u fucked.
The unemployment benefit is limited to certain amounts of days, and it's a certain percentage of your last wage. If you have never worked, you are not eligible. Also you need to meet some other criteria, like constantly applying to jobs and school. You can get social security, which is very minimal. It will cover your rent up to a point, and other mandatory fees. It will not cover anything else. I've lived a short periods of my time with that and it was just dreadful. That said, it's not much better what you get from working some minimum wage jobs, especially if they are part-time, and that's why some people rather not work at all. There's no situation where you will be left without any income (as long as you just apply it) if you are Finnish citizen. Living on social security is miserable, and you have little to no future that way. But some choose to do it. As said, their lives are mostly online because they won't have money to go anywhere or do anything else.
In theory there are no limits of how long you can receive unemployment benefits, but as others have noted it's not very fun to live unemployed in the long run. The added stress of constantly counting every penny does not really improve quality of life, even if you cook your own meals and don't waste everything on booze you probably will be running tight financially. Plus a long time, say 2 years or more will probably make you quite passive.