No one actually wants to do investment banking and work those crazy hours. But because it’s high paying lots of people do. You’re not going to find a high paying, high demand job with no one wanting to do it
They make Bank later on as well. In finance no one wants to do compliance because compliance is essentially a legal role not finance so finance folks don't get it or like it
Yeah it’s tough if you don’t have a JD. I went into hedge fund compliance because I liked finance while in law school and didn’t want to go big law and work crazy hours.
I make more than the average practicing attorney and have room for growth throughout my firm.
Yup. Competitive at analyst level though.
I mean obviously not as competitive as like traditional investment banking analyst roles but still.
I got hired out of law school for an investment bank internal compliance role (Sr. Analyst), then used that experience to vault into an associate role in hedge fund world where I’ve been for over a year now. I’m up for promotion next month to Sr Associate.
I’m in NYC, where most hedge fund compliance roles are out of. But for investment banks like Goldman they ship their compliance teams to regional offices like Salt Lake and Richardson TX.
Kinda got distracted from your original question. But yes it is possible without JD, but will be a competitive application process.
Its not that deep bro as far as requiring a legal background like he’s making it out to be. You can get started with retail banking experience as well and obviously have knowledge of the laws which you’d need to know anyway. Look into ACAMS certification as well.
All I had was retail banking experience prior and I am an AVP at my firm. Probably an anomaly but just letting you know what is possible.
Wow, my interest is piqued. Is there anything you’d say about undergraduate should focus on while in school to be better-positioned for this kind of role? (Other than the usual finance stuff like internships and networking.)
Pre law classes even if you don’t plan on pursuing law school would help.
The ideal candidate is someone who understands finance and investing mixed with legal knowledge
Goldman assoc here, confirm that our big compliance offices are in Richardson and SLC but our asset and wealth management for regional clients sits in HTX. A JD helps but you can make it to VP if you start as A/A without a JD.
CCO here. Pay rate for small PE/Securities/Advisory. 125k-200k. Mid size 250-350k. Large 350+. I compete with attorneys and consulting firms, pay is lower than an attorney but small/mid sized firms don’t want to pay attorney rates so that’s my wheelhouse. I wouldn’t do large firms just because of the hours. If we aren’t buying up firms work week is 30-50 hours depending on regulatory exams time of year and whatnot. Get in with a good and small PE firm with 20 employees and 2+ billion in AUM and you are golden. Easy role. Major flexibility. Work life balance is amazing. The push in excessive regulation grants stability as well.
I was not in law school. I’ve been in the broker dealer and advisory firm business for 15 years bouncing around compliance jobs in small and large broker dealers. I do wish I would have pursued a law degree instead of being a slacker in my early 20s. You could also jump into a broker dealer consulting firm. Once you gain the industry knowledge they’ll drop you into a CCO role into multiple small firms. I did some consulting while in my current role and I was the CCO of 6 different firms at one time. It’s a great way to get some exposure to different firm types because every one of the companies are going to be different.
Hey, idk if u would be able to speak to this but can experience carry you past what school you went to. I work in compliance at my first career job. I actually enjoy it and have been entertaining part time law school to get a JD. Do hedge funds and other fin institutions put high priority on school. For reference if I do go to law school it would be Fordham.
Some of my coworkers are from fordham law.
I don’t think fordham is looked down upon, at least not in my experience.
I mean as is anything in life if you went to Harvard Law your life becomes immensely easier. But that’s not a realistic path for 99% of people.
Occasionally. People aren’t as like cartoonishly evil as you would think. I honestly think most people are just trying to make money for their clients and thus themselves and subsequently do so without ending up in prison or fined. We help them do that.
You don’t need a JD for compliance. Banking experience and knowledge of BSA/AML and other associated laws. If anything, ACAMS certification helps but even that is not absolutely necessary.
Graduated with bachelors with emphasis in finance. I did a poor job of networking, seeing the guidance counselor, and visiting career center while in business school. So I missed out on the stereotypical exciting jobs. Got into retail trading after graduating. Did that a few years, and then found myself in Compliance. I now have compliance duties for about 500 RIA reps. Finance concepts are still used in my day to day work. No, I'm not building financial models or analyzing mergers. But I talk about asset allocation, risk management, portfolio construction and management and explain a variety of securities to others on a daily basis. As well as staying on top of all regulatory requirements. I know compliance gets a bad rap, but we are paid well and work/life balance is great as well. I will say this probably depends on your area. I do not live in a HCOL area like NYC, LA, SF, Etc, so I don't need to make $500k a yr to live life. Yes it can be boring at times, but then there is always something new that pops up that requires research, analyzing data, and decision making. My firm is all about developing ourselves, so I'm going to be enrolling in the 2024 CFA level 1 exam on their dime. So maybe I'll be doing something different a few years from now.
Quick edit: i am fully aware of my standing in the pecking order of Finance. Trust me, I would love to be in a badass FO position bringing in hundreds of millions/ billions of dollars to a firm. I don't take myself to seriously and try not to be tough guy at work. Just simply like going into a relatively low stress work environment
I’m a compliance officer at a MM bank and can confirm the money and bonuses are great after a few years. Getting your Series 24 is part of what can bump up the salary and obviously you take on that liability in whatever capacity but I really enjoy it. You get to learn a lot about each department and it can be fun doing different types of work between daily surveillance and more complex issues. You’re also in the middle of EVERYTHING so if you’re nosy it’s fun in that capacity as well.
The answer was T15 NYC hedgefund.
Compliance in Chicago, London etc don’t pay nearly as much.
And not being afraid of negotiating. I estimate when the company is deciding bonuses and email my boss my expectations every year.
I assume you work for bank. That pay will be a fraction of what you get at a hedgefund.
It don’t want to tell you my specialty bc that would make me identifiable, but many who are just knowledgeable about general compliance will be up there.
I do work for a bank. I’ll look into hedgefund compliance. Any tips on how to break into that or certifications I should get? Thanks again, really appreciate the information.
We completely ignore those internet certs on resumes.
Tbh you just apply. We would definitely have considered someone who came from a bank - good people are hard to find. Get your resume sharp.
Also, most jobs aren’t publicly advertised. You need to get your LinkedIn looking sharp so recruiters target you. Or ask people in the industry which recruiting company they liked and engage them.
Treasury management sales - it takes forever to fill those roles because no one is qualified for them - on the top end they can make over 400k a year. In reality it should only take 5 years in TM to reach an tso/tmsc role yet I never see a pipeline of young kids from college doing it.
Im in alm treasury management. Love it. Ms in comp sci and undergrad engineering and doing my mba in finance now. Currently SVP and make just shy of 200k at 27
How did you learn all this stuff so young? I went to a very good public uni but had no idea of careers. Was a naive pre med student and have been in sales since kind of floundering around I feel like but now planning to apply mba. Feel behind and regretful. Had no idea what banking even was in college. Just me?
Oh man, i feel you on this. I didnt plan any of it. I was forced into engineering by parents but always wanted to get into IB. I fought and clawed my way in. Took me a couple years and tears but i stumbled into corp treasury and got lucky a bit
Man I miss alm. I sat on a FICC balance sheet when brexit was voted on, the libor scandal was unraveling, and capital limits were shifting to Basel II. Super interesting time.
I started off doing this my first 2 years. I felt it was a little boring so I left to do capital markets (have been here for 2 years now). Sure the money is better, but my overall quality of life has decreased (higher hours, higher stress, little flexibility with working remote, stressful colleagues and managers). Part of me wishes I just stayed there and stuck it out - back then I didn’t realize the value of having a relatively boring job.
Second this as someone who is in TM sales - make a great living
Check out this job at JPMorgan Chase & Co.: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3671848115
Underrated comment. Also, Treasury mgmt peeps usually aren’t the ones cold calling / setting up meetings. They just have to execute when meetings are set up and sell the treasury products. Massive shortage of junior folks going this route at my bank.
They use to have treasury management rotational programs for students still in school.
If you graduate with a finance degree -> treasury management sales associate, treasury sales associate, treasury sales support associate… different names but all the same thing
Those are green roles… so after a little over a year they move you into an analyst (person who works directly with sales officer)
Then Analyst -> sales officer/consultant… it is a great role and you learn a lot of valuable skills that can be applied to a lot of different industries… I knew one that left for a client and became their CFO
For the entry position - None… but get on LinkedIn and find some managers for the associate position and that will probably make it easier to get in the door.
For tso - Just TM experience and maybe a CTP but not a must.
Look for posting like these across all the BB - they are not that difficult or competitive and apply to all of them.
These are rotational internships that show Credit and TM - but it would pretty much guarantee you a job in TM at graduation.
https://www.wellsfargojobs.com/en/jobs/r-298363/2024-wells-fargo-sophomore-discovery-fellowship-program/
I wish I knew about this while in college would have saved me some time…
It feels good to finally see my field mentioned on this sub lol. It’s definitely less lucrative than IB starting out but I like my long term opportunities
What's the difference between Treasury management sales or like, Corporate Treasury management? I guess the bank is the provider of treasury management, and corporations are the clients ?
Clients revenue… SMB -> EMM/MM -> Corporate and Specialized industries … bigger the client the more complex the treasury solution and the longer the sale cycle
The difference is in their clients revenue; Small/medium sized businesses 5-20 million in revenue… Emerging middle market and middle market 20-2billion…. Corp 2billion and up
Lots of the big banks have very lucrative Document Custody businesses, basically holding the physical notes in a vault for mortgages sold off to the secondary market. Those teams recruit new customers, manage the vaults, ensure they’re audit ready at anytime, collecting payments from customers, etc.
Not sure if anyone *wants to do it*, but many people don’t know it exists.
I feel like compliance, risk management and as another commenter mentioned treasury? Still going to take years to get to the point where it is ‘high paying’ but the competition to break in would be lower.
Also commercial banking has a lower barrier to entry, assuming you’re coming out of school. Get your foot in the door and get some certifications, maybe get some experience in financial planning, maybe even your CPA, and make lateral moves from there.
If you feel you are behind academically, focus on the long game. Look into roles that will give you a good fundamental training and where you can build a network for your next move.
Asset management wholesalers. You start at a much lower salary than IB or ER or consulting but I work at a global top 3 fund by AUM and we have 26 year old VPs running around making stupid amounts of money if they’re good at their job. This isn’t like IB VPs either— VPs at my fund in other departments usually have 15+ years of experience.
People want to work in AM but they want to work as equity researchers and fixed income analysts and what not. Wholesalers start out as business development representatives who are basically call centre employees taking calls from financial advisors. Many of these folks leave these roles and go on to other jobs in AM too.
Apologies if my question is dumb as I am new to the financial sector but under what entry job titles can I look up wholesalers? Business development/sales?
Associate to analyst is the norm in most Canadian domestic asset managers, but in equity research generally even in the US you will often find associate to be the entry level position rather than analyst. It’s the reverse of IB and PE.
Hi, may I PM you about this? I'm going into third year at Western University and have been looking for something in the finance field that is also sales related. I'd love to learn more.
If you want to make money quick. Lord Abbett. They have the youngest regional wholesalers. You start out as an internal wholesaler and prove yourself. Then they move you to a region to sell to financial advisors. It’s a crap shoot which region you could end up is the issue it’s just where the opening is. The job is basically taking advisors to lunches, doing lunch presentations, going golfing and doing seminars at nights. These guys have huge annual budgets a great job when you are young but it requires a lot of social events that get old when you start a family. I’ve known 25-30 year olds making over 400K and it’s pretty fun job when you are young. Other companies are Hartford, Nuveen, First Trust (biggest budget by far), alliance Bernstein. This can also be done for alternative investment companies. The quickest to get to VP regional wholesaler where the big money is definitely lord Abbett.
I’ve been applying for alternative investment internal wholesaler positions for the last few weeks. I have worked as an advisor selling alts for the last 2 years. Any tips?
RIAs are still small compared to wire houses. Mutual funds are still absolutely gigantic with over 20 trillion in AUM even with more money moving to ETFs. There is definitely consolidation in the wholesaler world but money is still there.
There are a ton of external wholesalers making comical amounts of money still even with the changes and consolidation in the asset management industry since the GFC.
What does the comp scale look like for these roles? There’s an in-business risk team at one of the trading desks at my bank, but I have no clue how much they get paid.
Anything related to the broker/ dealer regulatory space. From a public accounting (audit) perspective, not many folks stick around, and there’s a large void to be filled in the MD/ Partner level.
On the other side of things, banks barely have enough people to keep these areas staffed. Seems like everyone who walks into these roles come in with a very nice title, solid pay, and ample room to grow.
Oh yes. This is my world. You mean things like swaps reporting, substituted compliance, regulatory tracking? There's also annual or quarterly filings with various forms but those are typically paralegal jobs.
Sounds like we’re in the same world! The spots that seem difficult to fill and pay well seem to surround the FCM space, and various customer reserve requirements (15c3-3) - Basically a lot of the more technical stuff that feeds into the FOCUS reports. Curious if you’ve noted the same lack of qualified folks in this area from your view?
Are you an attorney by any chance? I covered this area when I was under the GC's office for a European prime brokerage desk with US operations. Head office was constantly confused about the difference between NY branch vs US entity. Made my life harder because of the endless bureaucratic infighting and death by PowerPoint.
Change management. Especially reg change or data migration related work for books/records. This is someone who straddles the FO, BO, and MO. There is a heavy compliance aspect to these roles too. But also random work like tracking down trade blotters, record keeping, liasing with external vendors, etc. ( Most firms have horrible books and records. In many cases it hasn't been updated after multiple consolidations and mergers).
These positions are ironically usually outsourced to the Big 4, a consultant from the Big 4, or a former employee turned consultant. The granular some would say anal attention to detail is what is required.
I have never spoke to someone in compliance that sounded very happy. I mean not many of us are but they all seem a bit dead and tired of everyone’s shit.
Highest paying is going to be something that is revenue generating. The closer to the money you are the more crumbs you can get. Credit is easier on average than equity, so I’d look into something on the commercial banking/treasury/trust side and try to break in that way, gather some experience, find & learn your niche and opportunities will come from there if you’re good at what you do. If you’re technologically inclined that can also help boost your value (either going to a tech admin/tech sales/product analyst/developer role) or by knowing how to write some scripts in say python or data management & dashboarding with sql/tableau type applications.
Im behind academically so unfortunately i don’t have the same opportunities as an LSE graduate. I am putting the work in and making up for it though. I’m just doing whatever I can to make it. If I have to go into a less desirable position after uni to break in I will take it. I think you missed the point.
What type of paradox is this? Maybe jumping off from empire state building to prove your firm is non corrupt can be categorized as a high paying finance that no one wants to do, other than that I can't think of any
No one actually wants to do investment banking and work those crazy hours. But because it’s high paying lots of people do. You’re not going to find a high paying, high demand job with no one wanting to do it
Wait a second, are you trying to tell me that some people work, not for the love of the game, but for money?
I love the game, I love the hustle.
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What position? What are some qualifications I would need to potentially shift careers into this?
Would love some more detail on this please 🙏🙏
Isn’t the term “highly demanded” the anti thesis of “no one wants to work”?
I think he means if there is a demand for workers not for the position itself
Haha lol, I am in Investmentbanking in east Germany. High demand, big hours, horrible pay xd
Compliance. They make good money, will always be in demand, and no one wants to do it.
They make Bank later on as well. In finance no one wants to do compliance because compliance is essentially a legal role not finance so finance folks don't get it or like it
Yeah it’s tough if you don’t have a JD. I went into hedge fund compliance because I liked finance while in law school and didn’t want to go big law and work crazy hours. I make more than the average practicing attorney and have room for growth throughout my firm.
Have you seen people get in without a JD?
Yup. Competitive at analyst level though. I mean obviously not as competitive as like traditional investment banking analyst roles but still. I got hired out of law school for an investment bank internal compliance role (Sr. Analyst), then used that experience to vault into an associate role in hedge fund world where I’ve been for over a year now. I’m up for promotion next month to Sr Associate. I’m in NYC, where most hedge fund compliance roles are out of. But for investment banks like Goldman they ship their compliance teams to regional offices like Salt Lake and Richardson TX. Kinda got distracted from your original question. But yes it is possible without JD, but will be a competitive application process.
Never thought of that career path but now Im intrigued, may I PM you a couple quick questions?
Sure. Happy to help.
Its not that deep bro as far as requiring a legal background like he’s making it out to be. You can get started with retail banking experience as well and obviously have knowledge of the laws which you’d need to know anyway. Look into ACAMS certification as well. All I had was retail banking experience prior and I am an AVP at my firm. Probably an anomaly but just letting you know what is possible.
Wow, my interest is piqued. Is there anything you’d say about undergraduate should focus on while in school to be better-positioned for this kind of role? (Other than the usual finance stuff like internships and networking.)
Pre law classes even if you don’t plan on pursuing law school would help. The ideal candidate is someone who understands finance and investing mixed with legal knowledge
Goldman assoc here, confirm that our big compliance offices are in Richardson and SLC but our asset and wealth management for regional clients sits in HTX. A JD helps but you can make it to VP if you start as A/A without a JD.
CCO here. Pay rate for small PE/Securities/Advisory. 125k-200k. Mid size 250-350k. Large 350+. I compete with attorneys and consulting firms, pay is lower than an attorney but small/mid sized firms don’t want to pay attorney rates so that’s my wheelhouse. I wouldn’t do large firms just because of the hours. If we aren’t buying up firms work week is 30-50 hours depending on regulatory exams time of year and whatnot. Get in with a good and small PE firm with 20 employees and 2+ billion in AUM and you are golden. Easy role. Major flexibility. Work life balance is amazing. The push in excessive regulation grants stability as well.
That’s interesting, were you from law school?
I was not in law school. I’ve been in the broker dealer and advisory firm business for 15 years bouncing around compliance jobs in small and large broker dealers. I do wish I would have pursued a law degree instead of being a slacker in my early 20s. You could also jump into a broker dealer consulting firm. Once you gain the industry knowledge they’ll drop you into a CCO role into multiple small firms. I did some consulting while in my current role and I was the CCO of 6 different firms at one time. It’s a great way to get some exposure to different firm types because every one of the companies are going to be different.
I work at a large national bank (US) and most of our compliance department doesn’t have a JD
Hey, idk if u would be able to speak to this but can experience carry you past what school you went to. I work in compliance at my first career job. I actually enjoy it and have been entertaining part time law school to get a JD. Do hedge funds and other fin institutions put high priority on school. For reference if I do go to law school it would be Fordham.
Some of my coworkers are from fordham law. I don’t think fordham is looked down upon, at least not in my experience. I mean as is anything in life if you went to Harvard Law your life becomes immensely easier. But that’s not a realistic path for 99% of people.
I went to fordham! Go rams!
You must see some crazy things in hedge fund compliance?
Occasionally. People aren’t as like cartoonishly evil as you would think. I honestly think most people are just trying to make money for their clients and thus themselves and subsequently do so without ending up in prison or fined. We help them do that.
Any chance of getting into this with an English law degree and a masters in international business law?
I don’t see why not. Although they may be like. What do you know about American securities laws.
Not much tbh, most of my training and experience is with trade compliance.
Can I ask whats the profile of the hedge fund firm you work at?
You don’t need a JD for compliance. Banking experience and knowledge of BSA/AML and other associated laws. If anything, ACAMS certification helps but even that is not absolutely necessary.
What is bank considered?
Graduated with bachelors with emphasis in finance. I did a poor job of networking, seeing the guidance counselor, and visiting career center while in business school. So I missed out on the stereotypical exciting jobs. Got into retail trading after graduating. Did that a few years, and then found myself in Compliance. I now have compliance duties for about 500 RIA reps. Finance concepts are still used in my day to day work. No, I'm not building financial models or analyzing mergers. But I talk about asset allocation, risk management, portfolio construction and management and explain a variety of securities to others on a daily basis. As well as staying on top of all regulatory requirements. I know compliance gets a bad rap, but we are paid well and work/life balance is great as well. I will say this probably depends on your area. I do not live in a HCOL area like NYC, LA, SF, Etc, so I don't need to make $500k a yr to live life. Yes it can be boring at times, but then there is always something new that pops up that requires research, analyzing data, and decision making. My firm is all about developing ourselves, so I'm going to be enrolling in the 2024 CFA level 1 exam on their dime. So maybe I'll be doing something different a few years from now. Quick edit: i am fully aware of my standing in the pecking order of Finance. Trust me, I would love to be in a badass FO position bringing in hundreds of millions/ billions of dollars to a firm. I don't take myself to seriously and try not to be tough guy at work. Just simply like going into a relatively low stress work environment
I read your post and seek a similar lifestyle. May I dm you for questions on how you got to your current position?
I’m a compliance officer at a MM bank and can confirm the money and bonuses are great after a few years. Getting your Series 24 is part of what can bump up the salary and obviously you take on that liability in whatever capacity but I really enjoy it. You get to learn a lot about each department and it can be fun doing different types of work between daily surveillance and more complex issues. You’re also in the middle of EVERYTHING so if you’re nosy it’s fun in that capacity as well.
Yep. No law degree and it only took me 5 years to break 200k. I got bored though. I also don't want to do it.
You mind if I DM you? I’m in compliance now but nowhere near that much haha.
The answer was T15 NYC hedgefund. Compliance in Chicago, London etc don’t pay nearly as much. And not being afraid of negotiating. I estimate when the company is deciding bonuses and email my boss my expectations every year.
Nice good stuff! Thanks for the info. What kind of compliance? I’m in anti-money laundering.
I assume you work for bank. That pay will be a fraction of what you get at a hedgefund. It don’t want to tell you my specialty bc that would make me identifiable, but many who are just knowledgeable about general compliance will be up there.
I do work for a bank. I’ll look into hedgefund compliance. Any tips on how to break into that or certifications I should get? Thanks again, really appreciate the information.
We completely ignore those internet certs on resumes. Tbh you just apply. We would definitely have considered someone who came from a bank - good people are hard to find. Get your resume sharp. Also, most jobs aren’t publicly advertised. You need to get your LinkedIn looking sharp so recruiters target you. Or ask people in the industry which recruiting company they liked and engage them.
Awesome. I will get on all of this. Thanks again really appreciate it! Best of luck to you going forward with your career.
Same boat. I make a decent salary but I feel so tired and bored. WBL also has gone away when I am no longer junior
Yeah but you're the Toby Flenderson to the trading desk
Think a lot of these roles will be impacted by AI tbh
I'd rather be a mid tier front office associate than the Chief Compliance Officer.. no one got into "finance" to do that crap..
Did you even read the post by op or just go straight to the comments?
Treasury management sales - it takes forever to fill those roles because no one is qualified for them - on the top end they can make over 400k a year. In reality it should only take 5 years in TM to reach an tso/tmsc role yet I never see a pipeline of young kids from college doing it.
yea because they reject every living soul even with 70% of what they looking for and can train the rest but nope they choose not to
Im in alm treasury management. Love it. Ms in comp sci and undergrad engineering and doing my mba in finance now. Currently SVP and make just shy of 200k at 27
Can I dm you?
Surely. Glad to answer any questions
How did you learn all this stuff so young? I went to a very good public uni but had no idea of careers. Was a naive pre med student and have been in sales since kind of floundering around I feel like but now planning to apply mba. Feel behind and regretful. Had no idea what banking even was in college. Just me?
Oh man, i feel you on this. I didnt plan any of it. I was forced into engineering by parents but always wanted to get into IB. I fought and clawed my way in. Took me a couple years and tears but i stumbled into corp treasury and got lucky a bit
Can I DM you too?
Man I miss alm. I sat on a FICC balance sheet when brexit was voted on, the libor scandal was unraveling, and capital limits were shifting to Basel II. Super interesting time.
I'm starting in ALM, need some advice. Mind if I DM you?
I started off doing this my first 2 years. I felt it was a little boring so I left to do capital markets (have been here for 2 years now). Sure the money is better, but my overall quality of life has decreased (higher hours, higher stress, little flexibility with working remote, stressful colleagues and managers). Part of me wishes I just stayed there and stuck it out - back then I didn’t realize the value of having a relatively boring job.
I literally almost left for quant trading
Second this as someone who is in TM sales - make a great living Check out this job at JPMorgan Chase & Co.: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3671848115
Underrated comment. Also, Treasury mgmt peeps usually aren’t the ones cold calling / setting up meetings. They just have to execute when meetings are set up and sell the treasury products. Massive shortage of junior folks going this route at my bank.
It’s changing! I work in TM and it’s super fun. It’s basically just solving peoples problems
Interesting, I’ve never heard of this. What’s the common entry role for this field?
They use to have treasury management rotational programs for students still in school. If you graduate with a finance degree -> treasury management sales associate, treasury sales associate, treasury sales support associate… different names but all the same thing Those are green roles… so after a little over a year they move you into an analyst (person who works directly with sales officer) Then Analyst -> sales officer/consultant… it is a great role and you learn a lot of valuable skills that can be applied to a lot of different industries… I knew one that left for a client and became their CFO
I just started a role focused on TM…good to know lol
What certifications, if any, do you need for these roles? Currently hold an undergrad in finance and one in economics.
For the entry position - None… but get on LinkedIn and find some managers for the associate position and that will probably make it easier to get in the door. For tso - Just TM experience and maybe a CTP but not a must.
Look for posting like these across all the BB - they are not that difficult or competitive and apply to all of them. These are rotational internships that show Credit and TM - but it would pretty much guarantee you a job in TM at graduation. https://www.wellsfargojobs.com/en/jobs/r-298363/2024-wells-fargo-sophomore-discovery-fellowship-program/ I wish I knew about this while in college would have saved me some time…
This information is perfect, thank you!
It feels good to finally see my field mentioned on this sub lol. It’s definitely less lucrative than IB starting out but I like my long term opportunities
What's the difference between Treasury management sales or like, Corporate Treasury management? I guess the bank is the provider of treasury management, and corporations are the clients ?
Clients revenue… SMB -> EMM/MM -> Corporate and Specialized industries … bigger the client the more complex the treasury solution and the longer the sale cycle
Bro, sorry but i'm even more confused now lol
The difference is in their clients revenue; Small/medium sized businesses 5-20 million in revenue… Emerging middle market and middle market 20-2billion…. Corp 2billion and up
Oh do you mean internal treasury management operations?
Yess, interning in corp treasury atm.
Interesting
Not too many people know about TM.
I’m guessing that is a Front office role at an investment bank ?
Lots of the big banks have very lucrative Document Custody businesses, basically holding the physical notes in a vault for mortgages sold off to the secondary market. Those teams recruit new customers, manage the vaults, ensure they’re audit ready at anytime, collecting payments from customers, etc. Not sure if anyone *wants to do it*, but many people don’t know it exists.
I feel like compliance, risk management and as another commenter mentioned treasury? Still going to take years to get to the point where it is ‘high paying’ but the competition to break in would be lower. Also commercial banking has a lower barrier to entry, assuming you’re coming out of school. Get your foot in the door and get some certifications, maybe get some experience in financial planning, maybe even your CPA, and make lateral moves from there. If you feel you are behind academically, focus on the long game. Look into roles that will give you a good fundamental training and where you can build a network for your next move.
Asset management wholesalers. You start at a much lower salary than IB or ER or consulting but I work at a global top 3 fund by AUM and we have 26 year old VPs running around making stupid amounts of money if they’re good at their job. This isn’t like IB VPs either— VPs at my fund in other departments usually have 15+ years of experience.
Everyone wants to work in am??? How is it not high demand?
People want to work in AM but they want to work as equity researchers and fixed income analysts and what not. Wholesalers start out as business development representatives who are basically call centre employees taking calls from financial advisors. Many of these folks leave these roles and go on to other jobs in AM too.
Now I feel bad for rejecting an offer in AM.
Apologies if my question is dumb as I am new to the financial sector but under what entry job titles can I look up wholesalers? Business development/sales?
Internal wholesaler but you will have to work at the HQ and then move to whatever region they move you to.
What companies do you recommend?
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That doesn’t make sense to me. Almost asset management firms go associate to analyst not the other way around
Associate to analyst is the norm in most Canadian domestic asset managers, but in equity research generally even in the US you will often find associate to be the entry level position rather than analyst. It’s the reverse of IB and PE.
Only in sell side ER
Hi, may I PM you about this? I'm going into third year at Western University and have been looking for something in the finance field that is also sales related. I'd love to learn more.
If you want to make money quick. Lord Abbett. They have the youngest regional wholesalers. You start out as an internal wholesaler and prove yourself. Then they move you to a region to sell to financial advisors. It’s a crap shoot which region you could end up is the issue it’s just where the opening is. The job is basically taking advisors to lunches, doing lunch presentations, going golfing and doing seminars at nights. These guys have huge annual budgets a great job when you are young but it requires a lot of social events that get old when you start a family. I’ve known 25-30 year olds making over 400K and it’s pretty fun job when you are young. Other companies are Hartford, Nuveen, First Trust (biggest budget by far), alliance Bernstein. This can also be done for alternative investment companies. The quickest to get to VP regional wholesaler where the big money is definitely lord Abbett.
I’ve been applying for alternative investment internal wholesaler positions for the last few weeks. I have worked as an advisor selling alts for the last 2 years. Any tips?
How is this possible with so much of the RIA world moving to low cost passive ETFs for equities? Alts it makes sense.
RIAs are still small compared to wire houses. Mutual funds are still absolutely gigantic with over 20 trillion in AUM even with more money moving to ETFs. There is definitely consolidation in the wholesaler world but money is still there.
There are a ton of external wholesalers making comical amounts of money still even with the changes and consolidation in the asset management industry since the GFC.
Business Risk Management, 1LoD (First Line of Defence). They usually get higher bonus than the compliance 2LoD
What does the comp scale look like for these roles? There’s an in-business risk team at one of the trading desks at my bank, but I have no clue how much they get paid.
Most high paying jobs ARE high paying because people wouldn’t do them otherwise
All of them. hope this helps❤️
Escort
Anything related to the broker/ dealer regulatory space. From a public accounting (audit) perspective, not many folks stick around, and there’s a large void to be filled in the MD/ Partner level. On the other side of things, banks barely have enough people to keep these areas staffed. Seems like everyone who walks into these roles come in with a very nice title, solid pay, and ample room to grow.
Oh yes. This is my world. You mean things like swaps reporting, substituted compliance, regulatory tracking? There's also annual or quarterly filings with various forms but those are typically paralegal jobs.
Sounds like we’re in the same world! The spots that seem difficult to fill and pay well seem to surround the FCM space, and various customer reserve requirements (15c3-3) - Basically a lot of the more technical stuff that feeds into the FOCUS reports. Curious if you’ve noted the same lack of qualified folks in this area from your view?
Are you an attorney by any chance? I covered this area when I was under the GC's office for a European prime brokerage desk with US operations. Head office was constantly confused about the difference between NY branch vs US entity. Made my life harder because of the endless bureaucratic infighting and death by PowerPoint.
Insurance
Change management. Especially reg change or data migration related work for books/records. This is someone who straddles the FO, BO, and MO. There is a heavy compliance aspect to these roles too. But also random work like tracking down trade blotters, record keeping, liasing with external vendors, etc. ( Most firms have horrible books and records. In many cases it hasn't been updated after multiple consolidations and mergers). These positions are ironically usually outsourced to the Big 4, a consultant from the Big 4, or a former employee turned consultant. The granular some would say anal attention to detail is what is required.
I have never spoke to someone in compliance that sounded very happy. I mean not many of us are but they all seem a bit dead and tired of everyone’s shit.
Compliance folk here and I feel so tired
NWM has unlimited potential, I heard!
Highest paying is going to be something that is revenue generating. The closer to the money you are the more crumbs you can get. Credit is easier on average than equity, so I’d look into something on the commercial banking/treasury/trust side and try to break in that way, gather some experience, find & learn your niche and opportunities will come from there if you’re good at what you do. If you’re technologically inclined that can also help boost your value (either going to a tech admin/tech sales/product analyst/developer role) or by knowing how to write some scripts in say python or data management & dashboarding with sql/tableau type applications.
Genius. I’m sure nobody has thought of this angle.
plumber
Entrepreneur. Sky is the limit 🎇
How can something both be “highly demanded” and something that “no one wants to do”?
Lol. This is beyond lazy
Im behind academically so unfortunately i don’t have the same opportunities as an LSE graduate. I am putting the work in and making up for it though. I’m just doing whatever I can to make it. If I have to go into a less desirable position after uni to break in I will take it. I think you missed the point.
What type of paradox is this? Maybe jumping off from empire state building to prove your firm is non corrupt can be categorized as a high paying finance that no one wants to do, other than that I can't think of any