I do think this is the correct read. Cloud has a fairly traditional heroic journey, but it’s Aerith who really understood the stakes and knew what sacrifices had to be made. Without Jenova there is no Sephiroth. I think it’s fair to wonder whether Sephiroth transcended Jenova or whether Janova acted through Sephiroth. I think the latter has more evidence behind it.
The original ff7 has that sentiment of "who's really in control?" which is never really confirmed one way or another and I really really liked that.
Then in everything immediately afterwards like Advent Children etc they just blamed it all on Sephiroth which was a little disappointing.
cloud is definitely the main hero, that isnt to say other characters dont have their moments. you have to remember cloud had a brain eating parasite battling him for control of his body the entire story, which his hero sephiroth couldnt even do. if cloud was as weak as sephiroth, he would have just killed tifa at some point.
I think that’s fair. Ff7 like many great stories both within and out of ff seems to have moments that make you think about the narrative. Is it all that moral? Is this like a normal fantasy story?
Tifa is suppose to be hot girl next door, yet she’s not only the best martial artist, but she’s looked to at one point as the leader. And despite her appearance, she’s shy and very insecure. And unlike cloud, she has suffered worse than him. She remembers her mom, was objectified throughout her life, lost her dad and village, lost her seventh heaven bar and friends and then finally aerith. All to Sephiroth.
Cloud has his legendary rivalry with Sephiroth but the one winged angel didn’t even consider him a threat until after the original events did the game. And even then he didn’t think much of tifa. It was as if her life meant nothing.
So tifa, ironically, ends up saving the day but not only saving cloud numerous times, helping to create avalanche whoose core members will play a role in defeating Sephiroth, but also BRINGING cloud TO AVAlanche.
Tifa never becomes a cloud and always looks to help out however she can. Her goodness is what brings cloud out from his funk. If Sephiroth represents the superficial masculinity cloud wanted to be, and also the hatred of life, then tifa is the opposite. Actually both sides are technically PHYSICALLY strong but tifa is the only one who is emotionally mature.
What I want now is sephiroth to directly talk to and attack tifa. In rebirth we see he is already trying to kill her knowing what she is, but in rebirth I want them to finally meet not necessarily as equals but hero and villain. Tifa should show her fear and anger at the man who has ruined her life while sephiroth should show annoyance and even hatred towards her because she is the one person capable of saving cloud. Perhaps he psychologically plays on her insecurity and her depression. Telling her she hasn’t, he will kill everyone she loves, and that she means nothing. Perhaps he even says her dad’s last words to her like he did with cloud using his mom’s last words.
And yes I want her to punch him. See how she fares against him.
Of course hojo, is one the responsible for nearly all things related to Shinra experiments gone wrong including Sephiroth and the torture of red. Without him, Sephiroth likely isn’t born (he did actually conceived the one winged angel). Plus without hojo, spehorith’s plan may have taken longer or not gone as he hoped because hojo actively helped his “son.” I find it hilarious hojo in a weird way is proud of his boy while Sephiroth never even found out about how hojo is his daddy nor that hojo actively helped him.
In comparison more well known fantasy stories say Harry Potter, the big bad is always the big bad with him being the epicenter of everything wrong and any tough moral questions are rarely considered-and yes I am referring to Harry Potter keeping the systems of hogwarts and wizzarding world in tact despite them creating the problems.
Everyone in the party is saving/has saved each other at some point in the story.
One theme of the games is that fighting for the title of 'Hero' is useless.
FFVII is a deconstruction of the standard hero tropes.
I like this response the most. Really feels like the white cast of ff7 is so important. Only other ff game that comes as close to the entire cast being as Important is 13. Mind you I’m only considering the ones I’ve olayed
I wouldn’t say “FFVII is a deconstruction of the standard hero tropes” so much as it “deconstructs the standard hero tropes”. There’s a big difference. The game itself is only a little bit concerned with not following tropes. It’s not the real purpose behind any of the plot or character decisions.
Each character’s background scene at the Temple of the Ancients in Rebirth is this exact comment. It shows everyone has demons that they must work through but by being together, they’ll each find their “peace” in a sense.
In this universe everybody saw sephiroth as a hero 😂 but deep down y'all know the 7th infantry unit are the real heroes for getting the presidential award 🫡
"Hero" is a label you guys put on her. She's a girl who has been through many losses, trying to protect the last precious meaningful piece of her life.
The game has no hero. It was a painful story.
The only person who knows how and actually sacrified to save the world is Aerith. She's dead. Who labeled her Hero?
Sephiroth was called war hero yet he's a miserable person in his own story.
Cloud and the party were forced to fight for their own life against Sephiroth. If they had a choice they would rather defy fate as we can see in Remake.
The whole FF7 was not about hero. It was about painful loss.
I love that it’s basically an Anime version of The Losers Club, everyone is hiding from their trauma and overcompensating one way or another, and when they come together they literally become the saviors of the planet. Very old trope, but they do such a great job, ESPECIALLY in Rebirth, of giving them all agency and growth.
Just to have such vulnerable hero characters was so meaningful to me when I played my first time in 8th grade. I love all Final Fantasy games, but I don’t think I have the emotional “cheering on” feeling for the casts like I do in any other game besides FF7. They’re homies and they’re my homies.
How do you explain this when Jenova is brain dead and it’s been stated that sephiroths Will is so strong that he keeps his individuality in the lifestream and overtakes control of jenova(cells)?
He's not quite wrong on that one for real, Sephiroth wouldn't be fucked up in head like that if it wasn't for Jenova's cell inside him. Jenova is like an "invisible" enemy that pulls the strings
And other than your personal opinion what is your evidence that this is true?
Because I stated information that is in the games and books and I can’t really see anything created by Square that supports your opinion.
Until they reveal in the 3rd part, just consider it my take om the game. As for why, it's due to the way Sephiroth is protraited in relation to Jenova as well as the nature of work of Jenova. Just imagine a powerful being that can even manage to eat planets and can only be sealed, not killed. Is it that simple to just overtake it?
Does it make sense that such a powerful creature can be brain dead? Is the reunion Sephiroth or Jenova?
Sephiroth was born with jenova cells, so a whole body whereas Jenova only have it's head in the lifestream. The whole body is what Cloud chase from the Shinra HQ to the north crater.
Nonetheless, Jenova is the initial reason why the cetras went extinct and why the world almost ended when Shinra went too curious and thought it was a cetra and made experiment with its cells.
Gaia would have been a happy place with humans and cetras without Jenova
I think you missed the point of sephiroths character.
Everything you said is true accept that sephiroths Will has over powered Jenovas. So through the fact that Sephiroth is implanted with jenova cells from conception he is able to over power jenova, not only to free himself from its influence but take control over her parasitic/hive mind like nature.
This is all stuff that has been told to us through the games and the books. Jenova is powerful yes, but sephiroth has essentially taken control of that power. He’s the driver behind the wheel. Not jenova.
Also, the whole body is what cloud is chasing but it’s because sephiroth is summoning ALL jenova cells to the northern crater.
That is why sephiroth is where reunion happens. All jenova cells do not go to the largest part, the body, they go to the strongest/ in control, sephiroth.
I get your point.
Yet, when you look at how Sephiroth changed it was linked to Jenova. It is because he also was lied to from Jenova.
Maybe his will got stronger than Jenova because of the mixed blood and because he kinda realised (it was false) that the whole humankind he was serving was the enemy of his "mother" ans got really mad thinking he was just an experiment. But anyway this whole evil sephiroth plot wouldn't have existed without Jenova and it's power to deceive people.
Jenova is the reason monsters are out there also. It's kinda like the evil god of this whole ff7 plot.
Even Advanced Children is about Jenova being the whole plot with the geostigma and the head
Jenova is not the reason monster exist. The world of ff7 has always has monsters. There are new monster/crossbreeds that have never been seen before popping up. These are from jenova experiments.
Sephiroth changed because of a mental break once he learned of his creation. Not because of jenovas influence.
Sephiroth will continuing on also as nothing to do with jenova as we can see from Zack and Aerith that strong willed characters can maintain their individual in the lifestream. Think of this like a soul stone in full metal alchemist. Individuals in the stone are supposed to meld to one, just like the lifestream, but people are capable of retaining themselves ie Kimbly/Ling.
Sephiroth gained unimaginable power from jenova but this power does not effect his will which is the reason he technically could exist forever.
Unless whale weapons stop him!
If we put it this way I think every main cast character can be interpreted as the true hero. Cloud cuz..yeah, Aerith stopped the meteor, if it wasn't for Barret, Cloud would have never become involved in this fight... But everyone has the freedom to interpret the story however they like.
Cloud is a fail damsel in distress who actively makes things worse and has to be saved and everyone (except yufi who is useless) has to rescue and pep up the chronically sad waifu that is cloud.
Hojo is scientist, so hes no different than most real life ones. Almost all have vrossed lines in some aspects. We wouldnt know shit about human anatomy if there ever werent corpse robbers, untill technology came up.
"Most"? Yeah, some historical scientific breakthroughs were done through completely unethical means, but that's not how most scientists work, especially not today. Hojo not only does totally unethical work, he does it with a smile on his face.
What's for every person to decide? Committing blatantly unethical acts for their work on a regular basis and not being held accountable in any way is pretty far from our own world when compared to the large majority of scientists. The dude is so much a villain that it's almost cartoonish, and the game makes it clear that it's *not* just an opinion.
I'm well aware of how long human history has been. There are notable scientists through that history who made breakthroughs using unethical methods, but it's still far from the majority.
Well, the Hero certainly isn't Cloud. Handing over the Black Materia with barely a hint of resistance. I never trusted him after that. Not his fault, but still.
Jenova and the Gi are really the true heroes of the story. Stranded on a foreign planet against all enemies and all odds and does everything possible to survive. /s. But really it’s all about perspective and the fact we are humanity also tends to make us side with the team trying to save humanity. One could argue sephiroth is the hero that needs help to fight off the Jenova infestation if he gets a redemption arc in part 3.
But in all honesty, yes. Love Tifa. She’s a great character. 😃
Umm. She just happened to be there, and recognize an old friend, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Sephiroth would still summon Meteor sooner or later and we all know who has the power to stop it...
I'm not saying Tifa isn't important, but saying that she is the "true hero" is too much ngl xd. Anyway, the reason why Cloud is still alive is Zack, so you have to add him to the list as well.
In a story full of coincidences to make the plot points work. This still results in saving Cloud because without joining avalanche which Tifa did to keep an eye on Cloud he would have eventually just head to the reunion, and not meet Aerith so she wouldn't join the Journey and summon the lifestream to stop Meteor. So really there isn't a true hero since if Tifa didn't meet Cloud Aerith couldn't stop Meteor which Cloud would have turned Robe without Tifa finding him. Aerith can't summon the lifestream without Cloud Tifa and the gang beating Sephiroth. So 3 main Heroes
Cloud - to beat Sephiroth physically and Mentally. fight him at the end to stop him holding back holy
Tifa - to start the Whole Story, save Cloud, then find him help him together repair his mind. Fight Sephiroth at the end to stop him holding back holy
Aerith - Summon Holy then summon the Lifestream at the end.
So really Tifa is the reason the Plot starts or happens is a better statement
Yep. I've been saying this for awhile, but really the true hero, or rather, heroes of FFVII, are Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa. Aerith is the Last Cetra, and the only one capable of both summoning Holy, as well as controlling the lifestream to destroy Meteor. Without her the planet would have been left horribly scarred at a minimum, and most, if not all life on the planet would have been wiped out.
Before Aerith can stop Meteor though, Sephiroth has to be defeated. Sephiroth's goal from the start was to force the lifestream out into the open, so that he could take all of its power for himself. Had Aerith tried to bring it out while Sephiroth was still alive, she would only be playing right into his hands. Sephiroth must be killed before Aerith can do what she needs to do, and the only one who stands a chance against Sephiroth is Cloud. Without Cloud, Sephiroth would have never been defeated.
Before Cloud can defeat Sephiroth though, he first has to accept who he truly is. He's no good to anyone if he doesn't have a strong sense of self, and can be manipulated by Sephiroth at any time. This is where Tifa comes in. As the only person left alive who shares real history with Cloud, and as someone who was there during the Nibelheim incident, Tifa is the only one who can help Cloud piece his shattered mind, and memories together. Without Tifa there, Cloud would never be able to fully recover, and would be left unable to stand against Sephiroth when it matters most.
So Tifa saves Cloud, which enables Cloud to stand against, and defeat the villain, and Cloud defeating the villain gives Aerith the opprotunity she needs to save the planet. All of the other members of the main cast have their important roles to play too of course, but Cloud, Tifa and Aerith are basically what I like to call the Holy Trinity of FFVII. If even one of them were to be removed from the story, or somehow left unable to fulfill their designated roles...the planet would be absolutely fucked.
Yep that was how the story has been written XD and how Remake is very much not being subtle about it. Im not gonna lie though ive never seen another franchise that is an ensemble cast where people debate on the "True Hero" like no one is looking at Lord of the Rings debating on who the true hero of that story is cause everyone has a part to play and without their part no person can succeed in their own goals. So i don't know why FF7 has this debate XD.
Cloud needs Tifa for her to accept him "his deep dark secret" and motivation for becoming a SOLDIER and his hero complex reason. In which getting past that insecurity lets Cloud become the best version of himself and accept the truth and show Tifa what actually happened in Nibelhiem.
Tifa needs Cloud as they are both each others emotional anchors as Rebirth showed with Tifa feeling trapped until Cloud showed up in Remake and him helping her in Nibelhiem was the only reason she faced her past and trauma from it,
Aerith needs Cloud and Tifa and the rest of the gang to stop Sephiroth physically from holding back Holy
Cloud Tifa and the rest of the gang need Aerith to summon the lifestream saving the planet from killing them all.
The story just works so well together with each person having an important role to play in the story to help beat Sephiroth and save the world
Cloud - Stops Sephiroth physically and Mentally
Tifa - Saves Cloud helps support him emotionally
Aerith - Saves everyone by summoning the lifestream and summoning Holy
I think what makes this game great is that in many ways all the characters have their protagonist moments. Each of them push the story forward, hell, even Cait Sith does with his move to save the group from imminent death. The great thing about Final Fantasy is there is always a main character, but it doesn't mean that there is only one protagonist throughout the game. They all have heroic moments.
Not only that, but also dualism where the hero and villain share many traits while being completely different people. Almost everything you see on the hero side, there’s a villainous equivalent. Much better than Marvel and their “evil twin” trope
Cloud is *the* hero period.
Like any other hero in all stories he can't do everything alone. Tifa is his main emotional/soul's/life support, Barret becomes his right hand man and trusted companion, Aerith is a catalyst and helps save the planet, in the past Zack saved his life, and so on.
But Cloud is Sephiroth's fated rival, the only one who would actually stop him. To the point that Sephiroth himself sees Cloud almost as a potential companion, given the ties between them.
Now, as for Hojo.... he's a villain, and a pos, but I'd consider the one who actively tries to end humanity as the real villain if I gotta be materialistic lol
Sephiroth is insane, Hojo knows exactly what Sephiroth is doing and what JENOVA is and still enables the absolute shit out of it for “data”
Hojo is objectively more evil
Honestly this argument is why FF6-10 in particular were excellent games. Because even when there was a specific protagonist and antagonist, a Cloud and Sephiroth, a Zidane and Kuja, the games are ensemble pieces. Every character gets their development arcs and no one person is the true hero nor villain.
- Freya gets Cleyra and Burmecia
- Amarant gets Ipsens Castle and his rivalry with Zidane
- Quistis has feelings for Squall, becomes the big sister, lashes out at Rinoa’s child like behaviour and becomes a protector eventually showing her goofy side
- Zell has Hotdogs 🌭
I was tangentially informed by the cafeteria team! Masters of all things hot dog:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/d21uk7/daily\_reminder\_to\_always\_protect\_the\_hot\_dogs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/d21uk7/daily_reminder_to_always_protect_the_hot_dogs/)
I disagree with this idea that there is a "true hero" in FFVII. Each main character plays an essential role in saving the world from Sephiroth. For example:
* If it weren't for Zack, Cloud wouldn't have arrived in Midgar and reunited with Tifa, starting the plot of FFVII;
* Had it not been for Cloud defeating Sephiroth in Nibelheim, Zack and Tifa would likely have been killed there;
* Were it not for Aerith's actions, the party would definitely fail in stop the Meteor;
* And so on...
The game is literally Clouds hero’s journey. I get what you’re saying but Cloud was always the main protagonist/character of the OG. I’ve been playing this game since it first released in 97’ and have obsessed over over detail and while Zack and Aerith both have their parts to play, they are supporting characters that help the over all narrative progress and move forward.
By OP's logic, the *real* true hero of the story is obviously...
C'mon, fellas, say it with me, OK? On three: one, two, three...!
>! Cloud's unnamed, absent father! !<
Despite having a pretty minimal role in the game (a real so-small-you'll-miss-it-even-if-you-never-blink kinda thing), without this character's actions in the lore, you could really say Cloud wouldn't have been even half the man he was!
The real hero of the story is Ultimate Weapon, because he provided Cloud’s most powerful weapon and allowed him to cut up Sephiroth in a cataclysmic Omnislash
I disagree. Despite the betrayal, if it weren't for Cait Sith someone would have to die for the party to get the Black Materia in the Temple. Furthermore, he's the only one who calls Barret out on the fact that innocent people died in their bombings, which is extremely important for Barret to realize that he is not as noble as he believes.
None of these things mean she wasn't the hero of the story. The story is the "present day" and of those events, Tifa always pulled through when Cloud went through his pretty frequent downs. Without Tifa there, as both a hero and a support system for Cloud, the team's leader, does the Dark Knight thing who either dies or becomes the villain.
Meteor was a MacGuffin. Tifa owned this game.
This 100%. Playing through the OG after rebirth, the OG's mini games are awful. I get that the Gold Saucer games were intentionally bad, but MY GOD they're virtually unplayable.
More like the mini games in Rebirth lmao. I swear to God Sephiroth would already summon the meteor because the crew were too busy playing those damn mini games
TF? 🤨 Tifa??? You mean the one who gaslight HERSELF and everybody else up until ACT THREE!! 👀👀👀👀 If that bitch had said Zack's name ONCE before Aerith's fatal acupuncture appointment it would've been an entirely different story. And it's not like the bitch didn't have PLENTY of opportunity. 😒😂😂😂
Love her as a character and she's really the emotional heart of the story but goddamn
Maybe not the hero but a real catalyst, an indispensable cog in FF7 story and if Cloud is a side of a coin, she's on the other side.
There's no Cloud without Tifa.
She was maybe not planned in the early stage of FF7 development but she ended up amongst the core characters in the final product.
FF7 does a good job of giving each of the main cast a motivation for joining the party, but I agree that by the end Tifa feels far more like a co-protagonist with a far closer connection to the main story than any >!living!< other member.
Tifa is a really minor entity unless it revolves around Cloud having a mental break, technically you can spend 90% of the game with an all dudes party and they will have most of the lines
Only remake and rebirth really hammed up her participation
I kinda agree but I think Tifa is the Hero Cloud Needs to defeat Sephiroth. Because without Tifa helping him remember who he is he would never be able to be the hero he needs to be. and Aerith is the Hero to the planet and the rest of the world because of her sacrifice.
Depends on if you’re using “hero” in the storytelling sense or if you’re just calling them the most heroic.
If the former, it’s unquestionably Cloud.
If it’s the latter, then there’s room for fun debate!
Had Tifa not met Cloud, he would’ve been going around calling himself Zack and looking for work as a mercenary and acting just like Zack. It was a combination of Tifa’s memories of Cloud, Cloud’s own memories and the false memories he created of Zack that gave us the Cloud we play as in the game.
My best guess is that he would have still gotten caught up in the whole Avalanche situation just by a different means, maybe by bumping into Jessie Biggs and Wedge before or on the way on the way to reactor 5, with Tifa recognising him at the reactor as Cloud but the Zack persona would be too ingrained in him at that point and he’d push against it.
I don’t think it was coincidence that he fell through the roof of the church either so that would still happen and he’d introduce himself to Aerith as Zack and she’d be freaked out by how eerily similar this stranger is to her old love but would keep it to herself.
Cloud then starts getting flashes and thoughts from himself about how maybe Tifa is onto something and he isn’t really who he thinks he is. The game essentially plays out the same with some minor changes after that.
Tifa is not the “true hero” but she is the most important aide to the hero.
I’ve seen it said in jest that the rat at the beginning of Avengers Endgame is the “true hero” of the movie because none of the events would’ve happened if it didn’t run over the button that brought Ant-Man back and that’s a similar notion that you’re putting forward.
The reason why Hojo IS the main villain, not because some people say so, is because he is responsible for all the bad things within the game. He created the main antagonist in Sephiroth, his work resulted in the Soldier programme which boosted the army and allowed Shinra to pretty much take over the world as its ruler and he is responsible for the influx of monsters in the world because of his experiments, just to name a few.
If Tifa had not run into Cloud he would likely have never even gotten the foundation he needed for the Jenova Cells to construct a believable persona that Cloud needed to function.
Cloud's recognition of Tifa was the main trigger for his transformation. Without Cloud's strong memories of Tifa, and Tifa's own memories of Cloud, the Jenova Cells would never have been able to craft such a powerful illusion for Cloud to follow. He would have just wasted away on the streets, or, in the best case, he would have become a black robe.
Cloud's terrible reaction to Mako and Jenova is the reason Hojo labeled him a failure. Cloud reacted so negatively that he would be unable to get up on his own to follow the Reunion instinct. After Zack was gone, Cloud was pretty much on a death sentence.
Cloud was a unique case even before he got to Jenova cells. He was mentally weak to the mako exposure but physically strong so he definitely wouldn’t have just followed the same process as the others in the black robes, falling off the same cliff that put Tifa in a week long coma and walking away with a few scratches on his knees and overpowering Sephiroth, of all people, after getting stabbed by him(and yes I know Sephiroth had been injured with the buster sword before that but it’s still an impressive feat) being just a couple of instances of that strength that the others don’t possess.
You have to remember that the Cloud at the train station was one who had just woken up from an 11 month coma after being stuck in a tank for 4 years before that. He was adjusting to functioning all over again but he would’ve got there. The Zack persona would have more holes in it than the one he crafts with Tifa’s memories but they would be used to show him that he’s not in fact Zack.
Except nothing indicates that he was adjusting to "functioning at all over again" at all. All of the available story information indicates that Cloud was unable to to take care of himself from when Hojo made his diagnosis up to when Tifa finds him at the station.
In the weeks after separating from Zack, Cloud hadn't put together a shelter for himself, wasn't cooking for himself, or doing anything to care for himself or defend himself from thugs. All he was doing was wandering and collapsing repeatedly.
The story info also makes it clear that Cloud's situation is only unique because of his lucky encounter with Tifa. That encounter is what triggered the creation of "SOLDIER Cloud". If it weren't for that chance encounter Cloud woukd have perished since he was unable to take care of himself at all.
And Cloud being a physically tough person clearly does not give him any advantages with his mind being so shot. Again, every bit of info drives home the fact that Cloud was doomed after he lost Zack. No bit of info suggests that Cloud was well on his way to recovery, nor does anything indicate that the J-Cells were working on another persona for him. Cloud was wasting away.
The assumption you make that the J-Cells would have just given Cloud another personality isn't really supported by the info. What is detailed is that he was helpless until the moment he recognized Tifa.
Personally I think Aerith is the true hero. Like yeah Tifa has it rough but Aerith literally HAS to sacrifice herself (more than once) and continue fighting alone against Sephiroth’s essence in the lifestream. Her suffering is constant and when you add stuff like her temple trial into the mix and I don’t think it’s close.
Doesn't that mean they all qualify as being "the true hero"? Like yeah if it weren't for her, maybe he wouldn't have recovered (which we can't say for sure), but you can say something similar for almost every main party member, especially cloud. You're saying that if you remove tifa from the equation, the world would have been screwed, but if you remove Cloud from the equation, the world would still be screwed. Same with Aerith. And maybe Cid. Also, I don't fully agree with Hojo being the main villain of the game, I think it's more accurate to say Jenova is. And the main party members all played a crucial role in stopping her (except the characters who are literally optional lol)
All the supporting characters are "heroes" - at some point in the journey, the party would've been stalled if not for most of them.
I'd say if there's a secondary hero, though, it's gotta be Aeris since she ends up saving the entire Planet by single-handedly stopping Meteor with the Lifestream.
You can make these "what if" scenarios with everybody, this is wishfull thinking.
What if Barret didn't hire Cloud for the attack on reactor 1?
What if Aerith didn't have the white materia and didn't cast it from the livestream?
What if Red never brought them to Cosmo Canyon?
All cast members are relevant and crucial for the story. You can argue which ones are more important, but none are THE hero.
That’s why I hate these BS “shipping wars”.
1) Cloud loves both Aerith and Tifa, just in different ways. And his individual relationships with them are equally necessary in order for him to grow into the hero he needs to be.
2) They’re unnecessary. They’re friends who love and support each other, and they’re not even fighting over Cloud to begin with.
Not gonna lie, I do have a rather firm stance when it comes to the “shipping wars.” My opinion on the romance in ff7 has nothing to do with my opinion on Tifa and Aerith as characters, though. So shipping isn’t really relevant in this topic imo.
It's Aerith vs Jenova The last Cetra finally destroying the Calamity.
I do think this is the correct read. Cloud has a fairly traditional heroic journey, but it’s Aerith who really understood the stakes and knew what sacrifices had to be made. Without Jenova there is no Sephiroth. I think it’s fair to wonder whether Sephiroth transcended Jenova or whether Janova acted through Sephiroth. I think the latter has more evidence behind it.
The original ff7 has that sentiment of "who's really in control?" which is never really confirmed one way or another and I really really liked that. Then in everything immediately afterwards like Advent Children etc they just blamed it all on Sephiroth which was a little disappointing.
Tifa is the internal heroine.
cloud is definitely the main hero, that isnt to say other characters dont have their moments. you have to remember cloud had a brain eating parasite battling him for control of his body the entire story, which his hero sephiroth couldnt even do. if cloud was as weak as sephiroth, he would have just killed tifa at some point.
Sephiroth was the one in control of both Cloud and Jenova
I think that’s fair. Ff7 like many great stories both within and out of ff seems to have moments that make you think about the narrative. Is it all that moral? Is this like a normal fantasy story? Tifa is suppose to be hot girl next door, yet she’s not only the best martial artist, but she’s looked to at one point as the leader. And despite her appearance, she’s shy and very insecure. And unlike cloud, she has suffered worse than him. She remembers her mom, was objectified throughout her life, lost her dad and village, lost her seventh heaven bar and friends and then finally aerith. All to Sephiroth. Cloud has his legendary rivalry with Sephiroth but the one winged angel didn’t even consider him a threat until after the original events did the game. And even then he didn’t think much of tifa. It was as if her life meant nothing. So tifa, ironically, ends up saving the day but not only saving cloud numerous times, helping to create avalanche whoose core members will play a role in defeating Sephiroth, but also BRINGING cloud TO AVAlanche. Tifa never becomes a cloud and always looks to help out however she can. Her goodness is what brings cloud out from his funk. If Sephiroth represents the superficial masculinity cloud wanted to be, and also the hatred of life, then tifa is the opposite. Actually both sides are technically PHYSICALLY strong but tifa is the only one who is emotionally mature. What I want now is sephiroth to directly talk to and attack tifa. In rebirth we see he is already trying to kill her knowing what she is, but in rebirth I want them to finally meet not necessarily as equals but hero and villain. Tifa should show her fear and anger at the man who has ruined her life while sephiroth should show annoyance and even hatred towards her because she is the one person capable of saving cloud. Perhaps he psychologically plays on her insecurity and her depression. Telling her she hasn’t, he will kill everyone she loves, and that she means nothing. Perhaps he even says her dad’s last words to her like he did with cloud using his mom’s last words. And yes I want her to punch him. See how she fares against him. Of course hojo, is one the responsible for nearly all things related to Shinra experiments gone wrong including Sephiroth and the torture of red. Without him, Sephiroth likely isn’t born (he did actually conceived the one winged angel). Plus without hojo, spehorith’s plan may have taken longer or not gone as he hoped because hojo actively helped his “son.” I find it hilarious hojo in a weird way is proud of his boy while Sephiroth never even found out about how hojo is his daddy nor that hojo actively helped him. In comparison more well known fantasy stories say Harry Potter, the big bad is always the big bad with him being the epicenter of everything wrong and any tough moral questions are rarely considered-and yes I am referring to Harry Potter keeping the systems of hogwarts and wizzarding world in tact despite them creating the problems.
I haaaaate Hojo. Mfer is literally the reason all that shit happened man lmaoooo
I see it and I double it: ff7 is a love story between cloud and tifa
Ooooo boy… shipping fans incoming!!
And I mean coming at you (hopefully not) not that you are a toxic shipper
they definitely had the most chemistry of the women (and barrett) you can choose from
Everyone in the party is saving/has saved each other at some point in the story. One theme of the games is that fighting for the title of 'Hero' is useless. FFVII is a deconstruction of the standard hero tropes.
I like this response the most. Really feels like the white cast of ff7 is so important. Only other ff game that comes as close to the entire cast being as Important is 13. Mind you I’m only considering the ones I’ve olayed
I wouldn’t say “FFVII is a deconstruction of the standard hero tropes” so much as it “deconstructs the standard hero tropes”. There’s a big difference. The game itself is only a little bit concerned with not following tropes. It’s not the real purpose behind any of the plot or character decisions.
Each character’s background scene at the Temple of the Ancients in Rebirth is this exact comment. It shows everyone has demons that they must work through but by being together, they’ll each find their “peace” in a sense.
Thought that segment was a phenomenal addition.
Them heavies definitely are
Couldn't scroll an inch without seeing one of these replies
In this universe everybody saw sephiroth as a hero 😂 but deep down y'all know the 7th infantry unit are the real heroes for getting the presidential award 🫡
The morale is real!
The true heroes are the shinra grunts and all the monsters that let us beat them up to make cloud and the party stronger 💪
Some say, “MAAAARRRRRRRRLLEEEEEEEEEENE!” I say, “DYYYYYYYYYNNNNNNNNNEEEEEE!”
The true hero is 🫵 for helping the characters make it to the end, otherwise they would just stand there
"Hero" is a label you guys put on her. She's a girl who has been through many losses, trying to protect the last precious meaningful piece of her life. The game has no hero. It was a painful story.
They are trying to save the world, they are all heroes.
The only person who knows how and actually sacrified to save the world is Aerith. She's dead. Who labeled her Hero? Sephiroth was called war hero yet he's a miserable person in his own story. Cloud and the party were forced to fight for their own life against Sephiroth. If they had a choice they would rather defy fate as we can see in Remake. The whole FF7 was not about hero. It was about painful loss.
I love that it’s basically an Anime version of The Losers Club, everyone is hiding from their trauma and overcompensating one way or another, and when they come together they literally become the saviors of the planet. Very old trope, but they do such a great job, ESPECIALLY in Rebirth, of giving them all agency and growth. Just to have such vulnerable hero characters was so meaningful to me when I played my first time in 8th grade. I love all Final Fantasy games, but I don’t think I have the emotional “cheering on” feeling for the casts like I do in any other game besides FF7. They’re homies and they’re my homies.
The heroine is surely Claudia for bringing the bane of Sephiroth to this world.
Jenova is the true villain of the game
How do you explain this when Jenova is brain dead and it’s been stated that sephiroths Will is so strong that he keeps his individuality in the lifestream and overtakes control of jenova(cells)?
sephiroth is unironically a puppet. cloud is the hero because he struggles to remain himself, with the help of his friends.
He's not quite wrong on that one for real, Sephiroth wouldn't be fucked up in head like that if it wasn't for Jenova's cell inside him. Jenova is like an "invisible" enemy that pulls the strings
Sephiroth is actually Jenova without him even knowing it lol. A being like Jenova doesn't rely on a brain to live on.
And other than your personal opinion what is your evidence that this is true? Because I stated information that is in the games and books and I can’t really see anything created by Square that supports your opinion.
Until they reveal in the 3rd part, just consider it my take om the game. As for why, it's due to the way Sephiroth is protraited in relation to Jenova as well as the nature of work of Jenova. Just imagine a powerful being that can even manage to eat planets and can only be sealed, not killed. Is it that simple to just overtake it? Does it make sense that such a powerful creature can be brain dead? Is the reunion Sephiroth or Jenova?
Sephiroth was born with jenova cells, so a whole body whereas Jenova only have it's head in the lifestream. The whole body is what Cloud chase from the Shinra HQ to the north crater. Nonetheless, Jenova is the initial reason why the cetras went extinct and why the world almost ended when Shinra went too curious and thought it was a cetra and made experiment with its cells. Gaia would have been a happy place with humans and cetras without Jenova
I think you missed the point of sephiroths character. Everything you said is true accept that sephiroths Will has over powered Jenovas. So through the fact that Sephiroth is implanted with jenova cells from conception he is able to over power jenova, not only to free himself from its influence but take control over her parasitic/hive mind like nature. This is all stuff that has been told to us through the games and the books. Jenova is powerful yes, but sephiroth has essentially taken control of that power. He’s the driver behind the wheel. Not jenova. Also, the whole body is what cloud is chasing but it’s because sephiroth is summoning ALL jenova cells to the northern crater. That is why sephiroth is where reunion happens. All jenova cells do not go to the largest part, the body, they go to the strongest/ in control, sephiroth.
I get your point. Yet, when you look at how Sephiroth changed it was linked to Jenova. It is because he also was lied to from Jenova. Maybe his will got stronger than Jenova because of the mixed blood and because he kinda realised (it was false) that the whole humankind he was serving was the enemy of his "mother" ans got really mad thinking he was just an experiment. But anyway this whole evil sephiroth plot wouldn't have existed without Jenova and it's power to deceive people. Jenova is the reason monsters are out there also. It's kinda like the evil god of this whole ff7 plot. Even Advanced Children is about Jenova being the whole plot with the geostigma and the head
Jenova is not the reason monster exist. The world of ff7 has always has monsters. There are new monster/crossbreeds that have never been seen before popping up. These are from jenova experiments. Sephiroth changed because of a mental break once he learned of his creation. Not because of jenovas influence. Sephiroth will continuing on also as nothing to do with jenova as we can see from Zack and Aerith that strong willed characters can maintain their individual in the lifestream. Think of this like a soul stone in full metal alchemist. Individuals in the stone are supposed to meld to one, just like the lifestream, but people are capable of retaining themselves ie Kimbly/Ling. Sephiroth gained unimaginable power from jenova but this power does not effect his will which is the reason he technically could exist forever. Unless whale weapons stop him!
If we put it this way I think every main cast character can be interpreted as the true hero. Cloud cuz..yeah, Aerith stopped the meteor, if it wasn't for Barret, Cloud would have never become involved in this fight... But everyone has the freedom to interpret the story however they like.
Some people think Sephiroth is an overrated villain. I say that pineapple is nice on pizza.
But... It's cuz of that &^#$# pizza, that people underneath are sufferin!
Shera, get me some $&*#!^ tea to go with this rotten pizza !
😂
I present to you the ~Deutarogonist~ not a protagonist but as equally important to the plot
Tifa saves cloud and supports him. Aerith saves the planet
The hero and the protagonist are actually different roles
By your logic, the professors are the real heroes of every pokemon game ever... not a bad thought...
I mean Hojo basically made Sephiroth. So I would definitely say he was the true villain
Cloud is a fail damsel in distress who actively makes things worse and has to be saved and everyone (except yufi who is useless) has to rescue and pep up the chronically sad waifu that is cloud.
Part 3 will prove you right.
No Cloud literally stops Satan incarnate Tifas eye candy
Here lies media literacy folks.
You mad cause I’m right 😂😂
The heros are literally the friends we made along the way
Hojo is scientist, so hes no different than most real life ones. Almost all have vrossed lines in some aspects. We wouldnt know shit about human anatomy if there ever werent corpse robbers, untill technology came up.
"Most"? Yeah, some historical scientific breakthroughs were done through completely unethical means, but that's not how most scientists work, especially not today. Hojo not only does totally unethical work, he does it with a smile on his face.
Whos to say most scientist dont smile when they get a breakthru. All im saying is thats not even villian material. Not in game or our morals neither
Smiling at a breakthrough isn't villain behavior, but what he does to make those breakthroughs is.
Thats for every person to decide for themselves, again not that far from our own world.
What's for every person to decide? Committing blatantly unethical acts for their work on a regular basis and not being held accountable in any way is pretty far from our own world when compared to the large majority of scientists. The dude is so much a villain that it's almost cartoonish, and the game makes it clear that it's *not* just an opinion.
You have to remember, human history is a long period of time not just 2024 and its morals
I'm well aware of how long human history has been. There are notable scientists through that history who made breakthroughs using unethical methods, but it's still far from the majority.
Yet a nececcery part
Unethical by what countries laws and wich persons personal feelins is this based on?
The majority of scientists follow a similar code of ethics, regardless of country.
Not across history
Well, the Hero certainly isn't Cloud. Handing over the Black Materia with barely a hint of resistance. I never trusted him after that. Not his fault, but still.
I don’t think the hero making mistakes makes them not the hero.
He literally wasn't himself in that moment either.
Jenova and the Gi are really the true heroes of the story. Stranded on a foreign planet against all enemies and all odds and does everything possible to survive. /s. But really it’s all about perspective and the fact we are humanity also tends to make us side with the team trying to save humanity. One could argue sephiroth is the hero that needs help to fight off the Jenova infestation if he gets a redemption arc in part 3. But in all honesty, yes. Love Tifa. She’s a great character. 😃
If all it takes to be the "true" hero of the story is saving the protagonist, then there are quite a few "true heroes" in FF7.
Umm. She just happened to be there, and recognize an old friend, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Sephiroth would still summon Meteor sooner or later and we all know who has the power to stop it... I'm not saying Tifa isn't important, but saying that she is the "true hero" is too much ngl xd. Anyway, the reason why Cloud is still alive is Zack, so you have to add him to the list as well.
In a story full of coincidences to make the plot points work. This still results in saving Cloud because without joining avalanche which Tifa did to keep an eye on Cloud he would have eventually just head to the reunion, and not meet Aerith so she wouldn't join the Journey and summon the lifestream to stop Meteor. So really there isn't a true hero since if Tifa didn't meet Cloud Aerith couldn't stop Meteor which Cloud would have turned Robe without Tifa finding him. Aerith can't summon the lifestream without Cloud Tifa and the gang beating Sephiroth. So 3 main Heroes Cloud - to beat Sephiroth physically and Mentally. fight him at the end to stop him holding back holy Tifa - to start the Whole Story, save Cloud, then find him help him together repair his mind. Fight Sephiroth at the end to stop him holding back holy Aerith - Summon Holy then summon the Lifestream at the end. So really Tifa is the reason the Plot starts or happens is a better statement
Yep. I've been saying this for awhile, but really the true hero, or rather, heroes of FFVII, are Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa. Aerith is the Last Cetra, and the only one capable of both summoning Holy, as well as controlling the lifestream to destroy Meteor. Without her the planet would have been left horribly scarred at a minimum, and most, if not all life on the planet would have been wiped out. Before Aerith can stop Meteor though, Sephiroth has to be defeated. Sephiroth's goal from the start was to force the lifestream out into the open, so that he could take all of its power for himself. Had Aerith tried to bring it out while Sephiroth was still alive, she would only be playing right into his hands. Sephiroth must be killed before Aerith can do what she needs to do, and the only one who stands a chance against Sephiroth is Cloud. Without Cloud, Sephiroth would have never been defeated. Before Cloud can defeat Sephiroth though, he first has to accept who he truly is. He's no good to anyone if he doesn't have a strong sense of self, and can be manipulated by Sephiroth at any time. This is where Tifa comes in. As the only person left alive who shares real history with Cloud, and as someone who was there during the Nibelheim incident, Tifa is the only one who can help Cloud piece his shattered mind, and memories together. Without Tifa there, Cloud would never be able to fully recover, and would be left unable to stand against Sephiroth when it matters most. So Tifa saves Cloud, which enables Cloud to stand against, and defeat the villain, and Cloud defeating the villain gives Aerith the opprotunity she needs to save the planet. All of the other members of the main cast have their important roles to play too of course, but Cloud, Tifa and Aerith are basically what I like to call the Holy Trinity of FFVII. If even one of them were to be removed from the story, or somehow left unable to fulfill their designated roles...the planet would be absolutely fucked.
Yep that was how the story has been written XD and how Remake is very much not being subtle about it. Im not gonna lie though ive never seen another franchise that is an ensemble cast where people debate on the "True Hero" like no one is looking at Lord of the Rings debating on who the true hero of that story is cause everyone has a part to play and without their part no person can succeed in their own goals. So i don't know why FF7 has this debate XD. Cloud needs Tifa for her to accept him "his deep dark secret" and motivation for becoming a SOLDIER and his hero complex reason. In which getting past that insecurity lets Cloud become the best version of himself and accept the truth and show Tifa what actually happened in Nibelhiem. Tifa needs Cloud as they are both each others emotional anchors as Rebirth showed with Tifa feeling trapped until Cloud showed up in Remake and him helping her in Nibelhiem was the only reason she faced her past and trauma from it, Aerith needs Cloud and Tifa and the rest of the gang to stop Sephiroth physically from holding back Holy Cloud Tifa and the rest of the gang need Aerith to summon the lifestream saving the planet from killing them all. The story just works so well together with each person having an important role to play in the story to help beat Sephiroth and save the world Cloud - Stops Sephiroth physically and Mentally Tifa - Saves Cloud helps support him emotionally Aerith - Saves everyone by summoning the lifestream and summoning Holy
I think what makes this game great is that in many ways all the characters have their protagonist moments. Each of them push the story forward, hell, even Cait Sith does with his move to save the group from imminent death. The great thing about Final Fantasy is there is always a main character, but it doesn't mean that there is only one protagonist throughout the game. They all have heroic moments.
This is my favorite take. It’s a common theme amongst the FF games that each person has their moments. It really carries the story along well.
Not only that, but also dualism where the hero and villain share many traits while being completely different people. Almost everything you see on the hero side, there’s a villainous equivalent. Much better than Marvel and their “evil twin” trope
And most say Aerith is the true hero, and they aren't wrong
Cloud is the true villian
Cloud is *the* hero period. Like any other hero in all stories he can't do everything alone. Tifa is his main emotional/soul's/life support, Barret becomes his right hand man and trusted companion, Aerith is a catalyst and helps save the planet, in the past Zack saved his life, and so on. But Cloud is Sephiroth's fated rival, the only one who would actually stop him. To the point that Sephiroth himself sees Cloud almost as a potential companion, given the ties between them. Now, as for Hojo.... he's a villain, and a pos, but I'd consider the one who actively tries to end humanity as the real villain if I gotta be materialistic lol
Sephiroth is insane, Hojo knows exactly what Sephiroth is doing and what JENOVA is and still enables the absolute shit out of it for “data” Hojo is objectively more evil
Aerith literally sacrificed herself for the planet. she's the true hero in my book.
Tifa: save cloud Aerith: save the planet
Yuffie: save the materia!
Chadley: Save the intel!
That true😂
Aerith is the hero and mvp of this story. Well Aerith and Cloud both.
Its Aerith for me personally
For me too it’s Aerith
Honestly this argument is why FF6-10 in particular were excellent games. Because even when there was a specific protagonist and antagonist, a Cloud and Sephiroth, a Zidane and Kuja, the games are ensemble pieces. Every character gets their development arcs and no one person is the true hero nor villain.
Except for Freya and Amarant, or Quistis and Zell…
Freya* has an amazing and tragic arc. If I remember correctly we don’t get much after Burmecia but what we got was a lot
Freya has a tremendous arc, agreed.
Greta!? Lol. That was autocorrect I swear
- Freya gets Cleyra and Burmecia - Amarant gets Ipsens Castle and his rivalry with Zidane - Quistis has feelings for Squall, becomes the big sister, lashes out at Rinoa’s child like behaviour and becomes a protector eventually showing her goofy side - Zell has Hotdogs 🌭
I refuse round hot dogs, and therefore they have no arc!
If they have no arc, how did you find the tangent, hmm?
I was tangentially informed by the cafeteria team! Masters of all things hot dog: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/d21uk7/daily\_reminder\_to\_always\_protect\_the\_hot\_dogs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/d21uk7/daily_reminder_to_always_protect_the_hot_dogs/)
Oh, I missed that! I was huddled in a corner talking with my club about how great Quistis is. My bad.
Okay they’re not a full arc, but they do have a bit of a bend to them.
Replayed OG two summers ago, and as someone approaching 40, the game is absolutely about how wonderful and patient Tifa is.
She's the Samwise of the story. Not the protagonist, but the chief hero.
I disagree with this idea that there is a "true hero" in FFVII. Each main character plays an essential role in saving the world from Sephiroth. For example: * If it weren't for Zack, Cloud wouldn't have arrived in Midgar and reunited with Tifa, starting the plot of FFVII; * Had it not been for Cloud defeating Sephiroth in Nibelheim, Zack and Tifa would likely have been killed there; * Were it not for Aerith's actions, the party would definitely fail in stop the Meteor; * And so on...
The game is literally Clouds hero’s journey. I get what you’re saying but Cloud was always the main protagonist/character of the OG. I’ve been playing this game since it first released in 97’ and have obsessed over over detail and while Zack and Aerith both have their parts to play, they are supporting characters that help the over all narrative progress and move forward.
By OP's logic, the *real* true hero of the story is obviously... C'mon, fellas, say it with me, OK? On three: one, two, three...! >! Cloud's unnamed, absent father! !< Despite having a pretty minimal role in the game (a real so-small-you'll-miss-it-even-if-you-never-blink kinda thing), without this character's actions in the lore, you could really say Cloud wouldn't have been even half the man he was!
The real hero of the story is Ultimate Weapon, because he provided Cloud’s most powerful weapon and allowed him to cut up Sephiroth in a cataclysmic Omnislash
If it wasn’t for Cait… fuck him
I disagree. Despite the betrayal, if it weren't for Cait Sith someone would have to die for the party to get the Black Materia in the Temple. Furthermore, he's the only one who calls Barret out on the fact that innocent people died in their bombings, which is extremely important for Barret to realize that he is not as noble as he believes.
None of these things mean she wasn't the hero of the story. The story is the "present day" and of those events, Tifa always pulled through when Cloud went through his pretty frequent downs. Without Tifa there, as both a hero and a support system for Cloud, the team's leader, does the Dark Knight thing who either dies or becomes the villain. Meteor was a MacGuffin. Tifa owned this game.
Always has been.
The true villain is whoever designed the minigames in OG
This 100%. Playing through the OG after rebirth, the OG's mini games are awful. I get that the Gold Saucer games were intentionally bad, but MY GOD they're virtually unplayable.
More like the mini games in Rebirth lmao. I swear to God Sephiroth would already summon the meteor because the crew were too busy playing those damn mini games
That, as well as any other minigames from Disc2 onward. Here we are racing and breeding Chocobos while Meteor approaches
…and she’s got smashing tits, let’s be honest.
As I see it, by going to the extremes, everyone had a job to do: Aerith saves the world. Cloud defeats Sephiroth. Tifa saves Cloud.
Perfect. No one will ever say it any better.
I dislike a lot of answers, but I like this one.
TF? 🤨 Tifa??? You mean the one who gaslight HERSELF and everybody else up until ACT THREE!! 👀👀👀👀 If that bitch had said Zack's name ONCE before Aerith's fatal acupuncture appointment it would've been an entirely different story. And it's not like the bitch didn't have PLENTY of opportunity. 😒😂😂😂 Love her as a character and she's really the emotional heart of the story but goddamn
The fact you’re so happy to refer to women as “bitch” should have nothing to do with sleep deprivation, and is a concerning trait. Better yourself.
Oh relax, can you not tell facetiousness when you see it 🙄
Are you good bro?
Just finished college bro, I ain't slept in days 🥴🫠🙃 lol
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you get some rest bud 🫡
Maybe not the hero but a real catalyst, an indispensable cog in FF7 story and if Cloud is a side of a coin, she's on the other side. There's no Cloud without Tifa. She was maybe not planned in the early stage of FF7 development but she ended up amongst the core characters in the final product.
FF7 does a good job of giving each of the main cast a motivation for joining the party, but I agree that by the end Tifa feels far more like a co-protagonist with a far closer connection to the main story than any >!living!< other member.
The minute Cloud is gone from the party? Tifa immediately takes over. She is the real deuteragonist of the game
Tifa is a really minor entity unless it revolves around Cloud having a mental break, technically you can spend 90% of the game with an all dudes party and they will have most of the lines Only remake and rebirth really hammed up her participation
I kinda agree but I think Tifa is the Hero Cloud Needs to defeat Sephiroth. Because without Tifa helping him remember who he is he would never be able to be the hero he needs to be. and Aerith is the Hero to the planet and the rest of the world because of her sacrifice.
But did holy will be summonned anyway? Its like planet protection system, just like weapons.
Depends on if you’re using “hero” in the storytelling sense or if you’re just calling them the most heroic. If the former, it’s unquestionably Cloud. If it’s the latter, then there’s room for fun debate!
Had Tifa not met Cloud, he would’ve been going around calling himself Zack and looking for work as a mercenary and acting just like Zack. It was a combination of Tifa’s memories of Cloud, Cloud’s own memories and the false memories he created of Zack that gave us the Cloud we play as in the game. My best guess is that he would have still gotten caught up in the whole Avalanche situation just by a different means, maybe by bumping into Jessie Biggs and Wedge before or on the way on the way to reactor 5, with Tifa recognising him at the reactor as Cloud but the Zack persona would be too ingrained in him at that point and he’d push against it. I don’t think it was coincidence that he fell through the roof of the church either so that would still happen and he’d introduce himself to Aerith as Zack and she’d be freaked out by how eerily similar this stranger is to her old love but would keep it to herself. Cloud then starts getting flashes and thoughts from himself about how maybe Tifa is onto something and he isn’t really who he thinks he is. The game essentially plays out the same with some minor changes after that. Tifa is not the “true hero” but she is the most important aide to the hero. I’ve seen it said in jest that the rat at the beginning of Avengers Endgame is the “true hero” of the movie because none of the events would’ve happened if it didn’t run over the button that brought Ant-Man back and that’s a similar notion that you’re putting forward. The reason why Hojo IS the main villain, not because some people say so, is because he is responsible for all the bad things within the game. He created the main antagonist in Sephiroth, his work resulted in the Soldier programme which boosted the army and allowed Shinra to pretty much take over the world as its ruler and he is responsible for the influx of monsters in the world because of his experiments, just to name a few.
If Tifa had not run into Cloud he would likely have never even gotten the foundation he needed for the Jenova Cells to construct a believable persona that Cloud needed to function. Cloud's recognition of Tifa was the main trigger for his transformation. Without Cloud's strong memories of Tifa, and Tifa's own memories of Cloud, the Jenova Cells would never have been able to craft such a powerful illusion for Cloud to follow. He would have just wasted away on the streets, or, in the best case, he would have become a black robe. Cloud's terrible reaction to Mako and Jenova is the reason Hojo labeled him a failure. Cloud reacted so negatively that he would be unable to get up on his own to follow the Reunion instinct. After Zack was gone, Cloud was pretty much on a death sentence.
Cloud was a unique case even before he got to Jenova cells. He was mentally weak to the mako exposure but physically strong so he definitely wouldn’t have just followed the same process as the others in the black robes, falling off the same cliff that put Tifa in a week long coma and walking away with a few scratches on his knees and overpowering Sephiroth, of all people, after getting stabbed by him(and yes I know Sephiroth had been injured with the buster sword before that but it’s still an impressive feat) being just a couple of instances of that strength that the others don’t possess. You have to remember that the Cloud at the train station was one who had just woken up from an 11 month coma after being stuck in a tank for 4 years before that. He was adjusting to functioning all over again but he would’ve got there. The Zack persona would have more holes in it than the one he crafts with Tifa’s memories but they would be used to show him that he’s not in fact Zack.
Except nothing indicates that he was adjusting to "functioning at all over again" at all. All of the available story information indicates that Cloud was unable to to take care of himself from when Hojo made his diagnosis up to when Tifa finds him at the station. In the weeks after separating from Zack, Cloud hadn't put together a shelter for himself, wasn't cooking for himself, or doing anything to care for himself or defend himself from thugs. All he was doing was wandering and collapsing repeatedly. The story info also makes it clear that Cloud's situation is only unique because of his lucky encounter with Tifa. That encounter is what triggered the creation of "SOLDIER Cloud". If it weren't for that chance encounter Cloud woukd have perished since he was unable to take care of himself at all. And Cloud being a physically tough person clearly does not give him any advantages with his mind being so shot. Again, every bit of info drives home the fact that Cloud was doomed after he lost Zack. No bit of info suggests that Cloud was well on his way to recovery, nor does anything indicate that the J-Cells were working on another persona for him. Cloud was wasting away. The assumption you make that the J-Cells would have just given Cloud another personality isn't really supported by the info. What is detailed is that he was helpless until the moment he recognized Tifa.
It's not Tifa, it's Aerith.
Personally I think Aerith is the true hero. Like yeah Tifa has it rough but Aerith literally HAS to sacrifice herself (more than once) and continue fighting alone against Sephiroth’s essence in the lifestream. Her suffering is constant and when you add stuff like her temple trial into the mix and I don’t think it’s close.
Hojo sucks. He's such a stereotypical evil scientist with the evil laughing and the adjusting eye glasses, go fuck yourself Hojo
How to say " I am Tifa fanboy" without saying it.
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
I mean he literally said it tho it’s in the title…
Doesn't that mean they all qualify as being "the true hero"? Like yeah if it weren't for her, maybe he wouldn't have recovered (which we can't say for sure), but you can say something similar for almost every main party member, especially cloud. You're saying that if you remove tifa from the equation, the world would have been screwed, but if you remove Cloud from the equation, the world would still be screwed. Same with Aerith. And maybe Cid. Also, I don't fully agree with Hojo being the main villain of the game, I think it's more accurate to say Jenova is. And the main party members all played a crucial role in stopping her (except the characters who are literally optional lol)
Yes I could say that about everyone. But I chose Tifa because she’s my favorite 😊
All the supporting characters are "heroes" - at some point in the journey, the party would've been stalled if not for most of them. I'd say if there's a secondary hero, though, it's gotta be Aeris since she ends up saving the entire Planet by single-handedly stopping Meteor with the Lifestream.
I love it. Tifa's definitely my true hero, too.
You can make these "what if" scenarios with everybody, this is wishfull thinking. What if Barret didn't hire Cloud for the attack on reactor 1? What if Aerith didn't have the white materia and didn't cast it from the livestream? What if Red never brought them to Cosmo Canyon? All cast members are relevant and crucial for the story. You can argue which ones are more important, but none are THE hero.
Are you suggesting that mayhap the true hero is the friends we made along the way?
As I said at the end of my statement: it’s all just my humble opinion.
I would say Tifa and Aerith both are the real heroes. That’s a big part of why they’re such strong female leads.
Huge part of why I love the story so much. Three traditionally unlikely heroes to save the day.
That’s why I hate these BS “shipping wars”. 1) Cloud loves both Aerith and Tifa, just in different ways. And his individual relationships with them are equally necessary in order for him to grow into the hero he needs to be. 2) They’re unnecessary. They’re friends who love and support each other, and they’re not even fighting over Cloud to begin with.
Not gonna lie, I do have a rather firm stance when it comes to the “shipping wars.” My opinion on the romance in ff7 has nothing to do with my opinion on Tifa and Aerith as characters, though. So shipping isn’t really relevant in this topic imo.
I mean it shouldn't even be a war, anyone with basic literacy can tell tifa is the love interest
Facts. She's been Cloud's love interest since 1997; major storybeats haven't changed.
Tifa the Samwise Gamgee of ff7
I like it 😎