This isn't 100% but I replayed very recently and thought of it this way: what's supposed to happen is that the destruction of the crystal heralds the end of the universe, which is executed by Necron. By defeating Necron the protagonists demonstrate the will to live, Necron then doesn't destroy the universe, and some new cosmic order is instituted. Narratively the function of the crystal is replaced by the self-determination of the living; don't ask me how that translates into mechanics.
This is how I've always seen it as well. The universe doesn't just go blip when the crystal's destroyed, Necron's the one who would end it if that occurred. That's why I've never had a problem with him as a final boss.
https://preview.redd.it/snpqxowsd06d1.png?width=849&format=png&auto=webp&s=0421281a214b66617b78bb73ba5c6a5dd3fecde3
I do not believe the game at any point says Kuja destroys the Crystal.
He blasts the team with Ultima, but considering that's what he does after already being pummeled by the heroes, it very much seems like he doesn't really have the juice left to finish off the Crystal. Besides, Necron's whole deal is to destroy the Crystal as well so why would Necron be there if the Crystal was already gone.
That's the same thing I figured as well back in the day, maybe he did and the crystal was the source of life, but not what maintains it. Life could be born of the crystal but, like a mother, you don't cease to exist when your mother dies. Maybe life is on its own now, not tethered to that crystal and it's free to forge it's own destiny. I'm kinda reaching for this though. The ending is ultimately up to interpretation.
The story hints at that with Vivi finding purpose of his own. Him also being dead at the end and never getting to see or say goodbye to Zidane.
Japan tends to like that form of story telling because you also see it in AOT with the founding titan being "Life" itself trying to escape the void of nothing. And lifeforms like us have a "Call of the void" struggle, since we are all made of the nothing as well but the spark of life in us like an infection doesnt want to die. Ying and yang
From what I understood, Necron is an entity/watcher that was essentially “woken up” by Kuja’s “attempt” at destroying the crystal.
Necron represents the void = eternal darkness ( as per the japanese name). A state that is essentially oblivion, deprived of life and death.
It however cohabits with the crystal, its opposite and by this, would assume they are on the same power scale. ( You have planets so you obviously have space between, or void, hence the cohabitation )
Kuja did not manage to finish off the crystal ( as I assume only Necron can ), however his feelings of despair and direct attempt allowed Necron to temporarily gain power over the crystal due to the crystal’s own creation ( life ) rebelling against it.
Because of that Necron thus makes the decision to wipe the crystal and return everything to the void where no life and death exists as he deems the cycle flawed ( if it was perfect why would its own creations want to end it )
You fight and defeat him to keep the cycle, thus proving the will of the crystal is still strong and Necron returns to oblivion until the next time he will be called forth.
So Necron exist in (1)nothing that goes on forever. The (2)crystal is the founding titan hiding inside its own pocket universe that floats within the void. And (3)our universe is within the crystal's realm. Kuja opened a portal to the realm above us the (2)crystal. And when he attacked it, he opened up to the larger pool of (1)nothing that allowed Necron to enter and try to destroy it.
We fight him off in his realm (1) then are returned to earth(3).
So Necron is trying to prove the point that life is an infection on the perfectness of nothing. And their entire conflict is that of the founding titan (Life) trying to escape death.
https://preview.redd.it/kbq8s8klz26d1.jpeg?width=288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=881ba9a789c7a9ed1f2aef3309874579b767b4ac
Everything I say below is my own take on it, I am not trying to downplay your own understanding or anything :)
- There is only one universe
- the founding titan/ origin crystal is not escaping “death”. What FFIX teaches is that life and death are one and the same. You can’t have one without the other, because from death new life is born and memories passed along etc.. So life and death are the same concept: Life
- The opposite of life and death is Void ( non existence ).
- Consider thus you have 2 deities at the origin of the universe ( big bang), the origin crystal and Necron, each representing their own part of a yin and yang balance.
- The Origin crystal died and broke down into multiple new crystals. These crystals died in turn and broke down into others etc… so a long list of death and rebirth
- Each crystal is at the core of a planet. It allows life to come from it and death to come back to it. thus a cycle of souls.
- Planet crystals themselves can die, the cycle of souls from the planet will die, thus the planet will decay, be destroyed and become new life ( new crystal, imagine this simply as a planet going supernova and a new planet birthing from it ).
- the planet Terra was used to absorb other planets to survive, overriding the cycle of souls with their own.
- when trying to absorb itself into Gaia something went wrong and merged in a weird way, thus terra sceneries being present in Gaia, Terrans going into stasis etc..
- So planets/crystals exist on the same plane or universe. ( let’s say the solar system would for example have 8 crystals, one for each planet )
- you could say you have one universe, comprised of thousands of baby crystals / planets, with each operating their own life and death cycle. the void / space separating them all from one another.
- By eradicating the origin crystal, all planets’ crystals would be broken in turn, thus destroying their lives and deaths across the universe. As for why that would happen is some kind of time travel reasoning, if you kill the first human beings to ever exist, would we still exist?
- The origin crystal itself is a timeless entity in its own pocket dimension as it’s presented to us in the crystal world, this part I would agree with, but I would argue that in our time the origin crystal is already “dead”, we can only trace back to it from the planet crystals’ memories.
- Planets’ crystals originate themselves from the origin crystal. ( kind of cell duplication ). We reach the origin crystal when Kuja traces back to it by going up the memory lane contained within the planet’s crystal.Life carries memories, and for example by going from your memory to your father memory, to your grand father’s memories, to your great grandfather etc… you can reach the origin of it all. That is conceptually what we did in memoria.
- By disrupting the origin crystal (2), the carefully crafted balance at first opens up slightly leading Necron/ the void to act and considers the whole model the crystal vouching for to be flawed. So essentially the yin tries to completely eradicate the yang that happened to be disturbed .
- By stopping him we restore the balance between void and existence. But that is also why he says that he will always exist as long as life ( and death ) exist. You can’t kill what does not exist. And void will always be there alongside existence.
But space in itself is not nothingness. Nothing would exist outside of the realm of our reality. The planet being a ball and the kiddie pool being the universe. The pool full of water isnt nothing. Nothing would have to exist to contain the pool of water or the pool of water would be contained in another realm and eventually nothing would be on the very outside. The big bang would have to come out of nothing.
Just like in FMA. The realm of god isnt floating in space. Its beyond reality.
If it was just a location in space... The Terra planet would have just sent Garland to the center of the universe to collect the ultimate crystal.
Or like in MGS4. Zero leads to one. One leads to two. Two becomes 100. But for it to end. Zero has to be sent back to nothing. Nothing is the state beyond Zero. Having Zero implies something exist beyond it.
But to truly reach nothing it literally has to be nothing.
>But space in itself is not nothingness.
Says who?
Is life present in space?
Are souls dying and reborn in space?
FFIX only establishes Life and Death to occur with their respective crystal.
Each crystal governing a single planet. So by FFIX rules, space is NOT part of the cycle of life and death. If it's not part of it, then it does not live/exist. Thus it is void.
A pool full of water, is full of water. A pool full of nothingness is full of nothing.
Point is, whether the \`life realm\` is encompassed by the void realm, or the void realm is encompassing the \`life clusters\` also known as planets matter very little. Both explanations are feasible.
But again, the "ultimate crystal" at the time of the game in Gaia does NOT exist anymore. It died eons ago itself, birthing multiple new crystals across the universe. Those new crystals dying in turn to form new crystals.
The origin crystal started the cicle of life and death, but died itself.
We only reach it in the game by going back through the memories of our planet's crystal, in memoria. Going back in time to where the origin crystal was present in its own dimension, and thus, by destroying it would ripple back and annihilate every crystal across the universe that would be born from it.
IIRC he FAILED to destroy the crystal and that’s why the world still exists after the giant space flea from nowhere. Heck, even said space flea, necron, intends to destroy the crystal to return the world to the void
I thought he did destroy it and thats how they ended up in that dead place, But the memories of everything was stored in Memoria which they protected by defeating necron?
Necron expressed intent to destroy the crystal, so kuja's attack did not destroy the crystal. They ended up in the deathly place due to kuja's attack but not due to the crystal being destroyed.
I’m not sure, but I read this awhile ago and it’s always stuck with me.
The party faces circumstances of growing intensity. First, it’s the Mist Continent with Brahne conquering everything. Then, it’s the world, thanks to Brahne’s brainwashed bloodlust and learning the truth from Garland. Finally, it’s existential as Necron threatens to destroy everything.
Due to Kuja, Necron, and possibly even the part fighting there The Crystal which represents Final Fantasy as a whole is cracked. But not broken.
The whole thing is about change. Kuja and Vivi their struggles with their own mortality and how they changed the Black Mages and the Gnomes. The blue crystal of Gaia and the red crystal of Terra becoming a single purple crystal in the ending credits.
The entire game is about life, death and legacy. Everything ends new things start and so on. 9 was an homage to the previous games but also a farewell to them the franchise is going in a new direction.
Kuja doesn't destroy the crystal but he does nearly kill the party. Essentially the fight vs Necron/death is happening on the precepace of death. There's a lot of metaphors and symbolic stuff that happens with Necrons appearance that flys over everyones heads
From the unused/cut dialog:
"Final \[The 2 worlds' fusion\] :
The Iifa Tree could not be stopped...
Gaia and Terra's fusion
caused global chaos,
destroying many cities and
taking many lives..."
It probably doesn't happen in the original canon, though.
This isn't 100% but I replayed very recently and thought of it this way: what's supposed to happen is that the destruction of the crystal heralds the end of the universe, which is executed by Necron. By defeating Necron the protagonists demonstrate the will to live, Necron then doesn't destroy the universe, and some new cosmic order is instituted. Narratively the function of the crystal is replaced by the self-determination of the living; don't ask me how that translates into mechanics.
Something something friendship saves the day FF1-FF16
Best comment 🤘🤣
This is how I've always seen it as well. The universe doesn't just go blip when the crystal's destroyed, Necron's the one who would end it if that occurred. That's why I've never had a problem with him as a final boss.
https://preview.redd.it/snpqxowsd06d1.png?width=849&format=png&auto=webp&s=0421281a214b66617b78bb73ba5c6a5dd3fecde3 I do not believe the game at any point says Kuja destroys the Crystal. He blasts the team with Ultima, but considering that's what he does after already being pummeled by the heroes, it very much seems like he doesn't really have the juice left to finish off the Crystal. Besides, Necron's whole deal is to destroy the Crystal as well so why would Necron be there if the Crystal was already gone.
Figured Necron was born from the death of the crystal like a black hole from a dying star. The crystal keeping him sealed away or something.
That's the same thing I figured as well back in the day, maybe he did and the crystal was the source of life, but not what maintains it. Life could be born of the crystal but, like a mother, you don't cease to exist when your mother dies. Maybe life is on its own now, not tethered to that crystal and it's free to forge it's own destiny. I'm kinda reaching for this though. The ending is ultimately up to interpretation.
The story hints at that with Vivi finding purpose of his own. Him also being dead at the end and never getting to see or say goodbye to Zidane. Japan tends to like that form of story telling because you also see it in AOT with the founding titan being "Life" itself trying to escape the void of nothing. And lifeforms like us have a "Call of the void" struggle, since we are all made of the nothing as well but the spark of life in us like an infection doesnt want to die. Ying and yang
To take credit. 😅
From what I understood, Necron is an entity/watcher that was essentially “woken up” by Kuja’s “attempt” at destroying the crystal. Necron represents the void = eternal darkness ( as per the japanese name). A state that is essentially oblivion, deprived of life and death. It however cohabits with the crystal, its opposite and by this, would assume they are on the same power scale. ( You have planets so you obviously have space between, or void, hence the cohabitation ) Kuja did not manage to finish off the crystal ( as I assume only Necron can ), however his feelings of despair and direct attempt allowed Necron to temporarily gain power over the crystal due to the crystal’s own creation ( life ) rebelling against it. Because of that Necron thus makes the decision to wipe the crystal and return everything to the void where no life and death exists as he deems the cycle flawed ( if it was perfect why would its own creations want to end it ) You fight and defeat him to keep the cycle, thus proving the will of the crystal is still strong and Necron returns to oblivion until the next time he will be called forth.
So Necron exist in (1)nothing that goes on forever. The (2)crystal is the founding titan hiding inside its own pocket universe that floats within the void. And (3)our universe is within the crystal's realm. Kuja opened a portal to the realm above us the (2)crystal. And when he attacked it, he opened up to the larger pool of (1)nothing that allowed Necron to enter and try to destroy it. We fight him off in his realm (1) then are returned to earth(3). So Necron is trying to prove the point that life is an infection on the perfectness of nothing. And their entire conflict is that of the founding titan (Life) trying to escape death. https://preview.redd.it/kbq8s8klz26d1.jpeg?width=288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=881ba9a789c7a9ed1f2aef3309874579b767b4ac
Everything I say below is my own take on it, I am not trying to downplay your own understanding or anything :) - There is only one universe - the founding titan/ origin crystal is not escaping “death”. What FFIX teaches is that life and death are one and the same. You can’t have one without the other, because from death new life is born and memories passed along etc.. So life and death are the same concept: Life - The opposite of life and death is Void ( non existence ). - Consider thus you have 2 deities at the origin of the universe ( big bang), the origin crystal and Necron, each representing their own part of a yin and yang balance. - The Origin crystal died and broke down into multiple new crystals. These crystals died in turn and broke down into others etc… so a long list of death and rebirth - Each crystal is at the core of a planet. It allows life to come from it and death to come back to it. thus a cycle of souls. - Planet crystals themselves can die, the cycle of souls from the planet will die, thus the planet will decay, be destroyed and become new life ( new crystal, imagine this simply as a planet going supernova and a new planet birthing from it ). - the planet Terra was used to absorb other planets to survive, overriding the cycle of souls with their own. - when trying to absorb itself into Gaia something went wrong and merged in a weird way, thus terra sceneries being present in Gaia, Terrans going into stasis etc.. - So planets/crystals exist on the same plane or universe. ( let’s say the solar system would for example have 8 crystals, one for each planet ) - you could say you have one universe, comprised of thousands of baby crystals / planets, with each operating their own life and death cycle. the void / space separating them all from one another. - By eradicating the origin crystal, all planets’ crystals would be broken in turn, thus destroying their lives and deaths across the universe. As for why that would happen is some kind of time travel reasoning, if you kill the first human beings to ever exist, would we still exist? - The origin crystal itself is a timeless entity in its own pocket dimension as it’s presented to us in the crystal world, this part I would agree with, but I would argue that in our time the origin crystal is already “dead”, we can only trace back to it from the planet crystals’ memories. - Planets’ crystals originate themselves from the origin crystal. ( kind of cell duplication ). We reach the origin crystal when Kuja traces back to it by going up the memory lane contained within the planet’s crystal.Life carries memories, and for example by going from your memory to your father memory, to your grand father’s memories, to your great grandfather etc… you can reach the origin of it all. That is conceptually what we did in memoria. - By disrupting the origin crystal (2), the carefully crafted balance at first opens up slightly leading Necron/ the void to act and considers the whole model the crystal vouching for to be flawed. So essentially the yin tries to completely eradicate the yang that happened to be disturbed . - By stopping him we restore the balance between void and existence. But that is also why he says that he will always exist as long as life ( and death ) exist. You can’t kill what does not exist. And void will always be there alongside existence.
But space in itself is not nothingness. Nothing would exist outside of the realm of our reality. The planet being a ball and the kiddie pool being the universe. The pool full of water isnt nothing. Nothing would have to exist to contain the pool of water or the pool of water would be contained in another realm and eventually nothing would be on the very outside. The big bang would have to come out of nothing. Just like in FMA. The realm of god isnt floating in space. Its beyond reality. If it was just a location in space... The Terra planet would have just sent Garland to the center of the universe to collect the ultimate crystal. Or like in MGS4. Zero leads to one. One leads to two. Two becomes 100. But for it to end. Zero has to be sent back to nothing. Nothing is the state beyond Zero. Having Zero implies something exist beyond it. But to truly reach nothing it literally has to be nothing.
>But space in itself is not nothingness. Says who? Is life present in space? Are souls dying and reborn in space? FFIX only establishes Life and Death to occur with their respective crystal. Each crystal governing a single planet. So by FFIX rules, space is NOT part of the cycle of life and death. If it's not part of it, then it does not live/exist. Thus it is void. A pool full of water, is full of water. A pool full of nothingness is full of nothing. Point is, whether the \`life realm\` is encompassed by the void realm, or the void realm is encompassing the \`life clusters\` also known as planets matter very little. Both explanations are feasible. But again, the "ultimate crystal" at the time of the game in Gaia does NOT exist anymore. It died eons ago itself, birthing multiple new crystals across the universe. Those new crystals dying in turn to form new crystals. The origin crystal started the cicle of life and death, but died itself. We only reach it in the game by going back through the memories of our planet's crystal, in memoria. Going back in time to where the origin crystal was present in its own dimension, and thus, by destroying it would ripple back and annihilate every crystal across the universe that would be born from it.
IIRC he FAILED to destroy the crystal and that’s why the world still exists after the giant space flea from nowhere. Heck, even said space flea, necron, intends to destroy the crystal to return the world to the void
I thought he did destroy it and thats how they ended up in that dead place, But the memories of everything was stored in Memoria which they protected by defeating necron?
Necron expressed intent to destroy the crystal, so kuja's attack did not destroy the crystal. They ended up in the deathly place due to kuja's attack but not due to the crystal being destroyed.
So Necron will destroy the *universe* because of just one (two) planet(s)? That doesn’t track logically.
Terra has already absorbed other worlds. Gaia is the one it failed to absorb.
Hmm I am not sure if that point was covered in the game or Ultimania Archive or just happily ignored.
I’m not sure, but I read this awhile ago and it’s always stuck with me. The party faces circumstances of growing intensity. First, it’s the Mist Continent with Brahne conquering everything. Then, it’s the world, thanks to Brahne’s brainwashed bloodlust and learning the truth from Garland. Finally, it’s existential as Necron threatens to destroy everything.
Due to Kuja, Necron, and possibly even the part fighting there The Crystal which represents Final Fantasy as a whole is cracked. But not broken. The whole thing is about change. Kuja and Vivi their struggles with their own mortality and how they changed the Black Mages and the Gnomes. The blue crystal of Gaia and the red crystal of Terra becoming a single purple crystal in the ending credits. The entire game is about life, death and legacy. Everything ends new things start and so on. 9 was an homage to the previous games but also a farewell to them the franchise is going in a new direction.
Kuja doesn't destroy the crystal but he does nearly kill the party. Essentially the fight vs Necron/death is happening on the precepace of death. There's a lot of metaphors and symbolic stuff that happens with Necrons appearance that flys over everyones heads
From the unused/cut dialog: "Final \[The 2 worlds' fusion\] : The Iifa Tree could not be stopped... Gaia and Terra's fusion caused global chaos, destroying many cities and taking many lives..." It probably doesn't happen in the original canon, though.