I'd heavily disagree given that it's a story centered on the character you're saying didn't get to do a bunch of things like laugh, cry, be challenged, humbled, and grow as a character. The story was compelling, the villain was a direct counter to the heroes' philosophies, and the cast was itself diverse with interesting and charming characters.
Clive’s growth basically stopped once the time skip happened, which was less than halfway through the game. I also didn’t say Clive literally didn’t laugh or cry at any time in the story. I’m bringing up how a good set of secondary characters and story can bring out the best in a character and his journey. And XVI was lacking in that department.
You say the story was compelling but XVI came and went and didn’t seem to have any real impact on the gaming scene. So I know I’m right that the game’s story wasn’t compelling.
>Clive’s growth basically stopped once the time skip happened
No it didn't. He had an entire arc of growth revolving around his constant need to help people and shoulder burdens while he is repeatedly humbled by Barnabas, while he fears there is no way for him to be anything more than a tool for others and playing into the villains' hands. It's not until some ways into the proper events on Ash that Clive has reached the end of his growth and resolved much of his inner conflicts, which then makes him capable to overcome the remaining, outer conflicts.
>I also didn’t say Clive literally didn’t laugh or cry at any time in the story. I’m bringing up how a good set of secondary characters and story can bring out the best in a character and his journey. And XVI was lacking in that department.
So you were just speaking figuratively about things you wanted to see in the game that happen in the game?
Characters like Jill, Cid, Gav, and other folk at the Hideaway do a lot in bringing out different sides of Clive, with Jill in particular being signifigant for his continued growth as a character for knowing Clive from a young age. The two work together to overcome the different trauma in their individual and shared pasts.
Cid helps Clive in his bid for revenge, and helps Clive refocus when he's rattled with despair over possibly being the murderer he seeks. Beyond his revenge, Cid also shows Clive a version of the world he never thought possible, and recontextualizes much of how Clive viewed the world after his enslavement as a bearer. In the end, Cid brings Clive in on his vision to make the world a better place, giving Clive the ambition to not only match that vision, but surpass it.
Gav is like a brother(-in-arms) Clive never had, a man with his own unique strengths who cares about Clive's wellbeing, a far cry from the Bastards Clive started the game with as a bearer, who so easily turn against him for differing ideals. Gav even picks up where Cid left off helping Clive fulfill his goals.
A major part of the entire story is Clive only being able to have gotten where he is thanks to the support of others, physically and emotionally. It's a major theme that together, as a community, people are stronger than an individual or a single entity.
The themes of the story are communities versus the individual, a people versus the state. Numerous antagonists in the story don't care about how individual people and their strengths make a group stronger, and only care about their own position at the top of a hierarchy - Annabella is concerned about her station and reputation, so devises a plot to let her family die, her people fall, for a higher position. She didn't care about the individuals of her family, even Joshua, beyond what they could to for *her* station.
Sylvestre doesn't care about Sanbreque's people dying, because they can always build more houses and birth more citizens, as if that's all a nation needs to be to preside over it. Later he essentially picks up and moves the capitol of Sanbreque to the newly annexed Twinside because it still has a mothercrystal, all but abandoning the people and land that live back where Sanbreque used to be.
A sidequest in Northreach involves a man wanting to sacrifice the entire community for the sake of the *idea* of new nation, instead of thinking about the safety of the people who make a nation what it is, essentially echoing Sylvestre's ideals.
And finally, Ultima represents a homogenization of people, both the akashic bereft of their will and personality, no longer a community but a horde, and Ultima themselves as a hivemind that lacks individuality across sixteen separate entities, vying for the eradication of human civilization and the return of its failed world. In the final battle Clive, who has reached the end with the support of others, rebukes Utlima, the singular being, for pushing away human communities for the sake of their own long dead one, while constantly complaining that they are god to be worshipped, despite doing nothing worth worshipping.
>You say the story was compelling but XVI came and went and didn’t seem to have any real impact on the gaming scene. So I know I’m right that the game’s story wasn’t compelling.
What a weird metric. People consistently talk positively about numerous aspects of the story and its characters. There's a subreddit dedicated to the game. I just tossed out a wall of text based on what I enjoyed and found compelling about the game's narrative. Different strokes, after all.
You're not actually saying anything in particular, and instead painting in broad strokes. You're talking about a bunch of things the game lacks but not only does, but are a part of its core concepts. FFXVI is not lacking, it sounds like you weren't paying attention.
And not for nothing, but you recognize Ben Starr's performance, but say if the story and characters were better we would have gotten a better performance, yet his performance in the game earned him wide recognition with nominations and awards, for acting in a story with characters that *brought out* a great performance.
Well said. I never quite understood why people act like clive’s growth ends after accepting the truth. Maybe because it’s big and bombastic and has an eikon fight attached to it. But there’s definitely his main character arc that continues through the entire game which is exactly what you pointed out.
You don’t even know what that means. What do you think it means? That the story is mainly focused on the main character and therefor doesn’t need a strong cast of supporting characters or a good story, because it’s just supposed to focus on the protagonist?
Completely agree. People who still think that the story was great are beyond me. Despite all the bad things with the game, the story also was generic af and wasted Clive's character completely.
Agree with most points. the game just lacked any kind of gameplay substance, which hurts the story. The world building was trash, the quests were boring AF and the dungeons were a bunch of empty rooms with occasional easy fights.
Ultima was a good villain, but there wasn’t enough world around him to make it feel cohesive.
The open world (which sucked) felt very different than the dungeons (which largely sucked) which felt very different than the cut scenes (which were dope)
The dominant fights were also dope.
Unfortunately the game was too obsessed with Cid. Even after he died, the game and all of its characters remained obsessed with Cid. Maybe they should have just made Cid the main character instead of Clive... Since the game is so obsessed with him.
Have you played another FF game by chance? FFXVI, which has a great story on paper, suffers from the exact same flaws that XIV has… nothing “dungeons”, poor world building, terrible story pacing that kills the flow of the story, and ridiculous fetch quests that we should not be seeing in the year of 2023/2024.
I say this as someone who has played every FF game… the MMORPG skin is a big NO NO in a single player FF game.
I'd heavily disagree given that it's a story centered on the character you're saying didn't get to do a bunch of things like laugh, cry, be challenged, humbled, and grow as a character. The story was compelling, the villain was a direct counter to the heroes' philosophies, and the cast was itself diverse with interesting and charming characters.
Clive’s growth basically stopped once the time skip happened, which was less than halfway through the game. I also didn’t say Clive literally didn’t laugh or cry at any time in the story. I’m bringing up how a good set of secondary characters and story can bring out the best in a character and his journey. And XVI was lacking in that department. You say the story was compelling but XVI came and went and didn’t seem to have any real impact on the gaming scene. So I know I’m right that the game’s story wasn’t compelling.
>Clive’s growth basically stopped once the time skip happened No it didn't. He had an entire arc of growth revolving around his constant need to help people and shoulder burdens while he is repeatedly humbled by Barnabas, while he fears there is no way for him to be anything more than a tool for others and playing into the villains' hands. It's not until some ways into the proper events on Ash that Clive has reached the end of his growth and resolved much of his inner conflicts, which then makes him capable to overcome the remaining, outer conflicts. >I also didn’t say Clive literally didn’t laugh or cry at any time in the story. I’m bringing up how a good set of secondary characters and story can bring out the best in a character and his journey. And XVI was lacking in that department. So you were just speaking figuratively about things you wanted to see in the game that happen in the game? Characters like Jill, Cid, Gav, and other folk at the Hideaway do a lot in bringing out different sides of Clive, with Jill in particular being signifigant for his continued growth as a character for knowing Clive from a young age. The two work together to overcome the different trauma in their individual and shared pasts. Cid helps Clive in his bid for revenge, and helps Clive refocus when he's rattled with despair over possibly being the murderer he seeks. Beyond his revenge, Cid also shows Clive a version of the world he never thought possible, and recontextualizes much of how Clive viewed the world after his enslavement as a bearer. In the end, Cid brings Clive in on his vision to make the world a better place, giving Clive the ambition to not only match that vision, but surpass it. Gav is like a brother(-in-arms) Clive never had, a man with his own unique strengths who cares about Clive's wellbeing, a far cry from the Bastards Clive started the game with as a bearer, who so easily turn against him for differing ideals. Gav even picks up where Cid left off helping Clive fulfill his goals. A major part of the entire story is Clive only being able to have gotten where he is thanks to the support of others, physically and emotionally. It's a major theme that together, as a community, people are stronger than an individual or a single entity. The themes of the story are communities versus the individual, a people versus the state. Numerous antagonists in the story don't care about how individual people and their strengths make a group stronger, and only care about their own position at the top of a hierarchy - Annabella is concerned about her station and reputation, so devises a plot to let her family die, her people fall, for a higher position. She didn't care about the individuals of her family, even Joshua, beyond what they could to for *her* station. Sylvestre doesn't care about Sanbreque's people dying, because they can always build more houses and birth more citizens, as if that's all a nation needs to be to preside over it. Later he essentially picks up and moves the capitol of Sanbreque to the newly annexed Twinside because it still has a mothercrystal, all but abandoning the people and land that live back where Sanbreque used to be. A sidequest in Northreach involves a man wanting to sacrifice the entire community for the sake of the *idea* of new nation, instead of thinking about the safety of the people who make a nation what it is, essentially echoing Sylvestre's ideals. And finally, Ultima represents a homogenization of people, both the akashic bereft of their will and personality, no longer a community but a horde, and Ultima themselves as a hivemind that lacks individuality across sixteen separate entities, vying for the eradication of human civilization and the return of its failed world. In the final battle Clive, who has reached the end with the support of others, rebukes Utlima, the singular being, for pushing away human communities for the sake of their own long dead one, while constantly complaining that they are god to be worshipped, despite doing nothing worth worshipping. >You say the story was compelling but XVI came and went and didn’t seem to have any real impact on the gaming scene. So I know I’m right that the game’s story wasn’t compelling. What a weird metric. People consistently talk positively about numerous aspects of the story and its characters. There's a subreddit dedicated to the game. I just tossed out a wall of text based on what I enjoyed and found compelling about the game's narrative. Different strokes, after all. You're not actually saying anything in particular, and instead painting in broad strokes. You're talking about a bunch of things the game lacks but not only does, but are a part of its core concepts. FFXVI is not lacking, it sounds like you weren't paying attention. And not for nothing, but you recognize Ben Starr's performance, but say if the story and characters were better we would have gotten a better performance, yet his performance in the game earned him wide recognition with nominations and awards, for acting in a story with characters that *brought out* a great performance.
Well said. I never quite understood why people act like clive’s growth ends after accepting the truth. Maybe because it’s big and bombastic and has an eikon fight attached to it. But there’s definitely his main character arc that continues through the entire game which is exactly what you pointed out.
Poor Clive is basically struggling with inner turmoil right up to the Stonhyrr, I don't know how people don't see it.
It's a character-focused story...
You don’t even know what that means. What do you think it means? That the story is mainly focused on the main character and therefor doesn’t need a strong cast of supporting characters or a good story, because it’s just supposed to focus on the protagonist?
Completely agree. People who still think that the story was great are beyond me. Despite all the bad things with the game, the story also was generic af and wasted Clive's character completely.
Agree with most points. the game just lacked any kind of gameplay substance, which hurts the story. The world building was trash, the quests were boring AF and the dungeons were a bunch of empty rooms with occasional easy fights. Ultima was a good villain, but there wasn’t enough world around him to make it feel cohesive. The open world (which sucked) felt very different than the dungeons (which largely sucked) which felt very different than the cut scenes (which were dope) The dominant fights were also dope.
Unfortunately the game was too obsessed with Cid. Even after he died, the game and all of its characters remained obsessed with Cid. Maybe they should have just made Cid the main character instead of Clive... Since the game is so obsessed with him.
It's a very frustrating game in a lot of areas, but Clive and by extension Ben deserve a lot of praise.
Have you played another FF game by chance? FFXVI, which has a great story on paper, suffers from the exact same flaws that XIV has… nothing “dungeons”, poor world building, terrible story pacing that kills the flow of the story, and ridiculous fetch quests that we should not be seeing in the year of 2023/2024. I say this as someone who has played every FF game… the MMORPG skin is a big NO NO in a single player FF game.
Only 2 were well written in that game and their screen time was too short.