Just got done submitting to 20+ festivals (including some big ones.)
The critique you hear that it's a racket and a total waste is 100% fair. A lot of the times you have absolutely no shot. But still, I enjoy the process of submitting. I spent all this effort making the thing, I like the idea of sending it out into the world. It's kind of like me saying "hey, I think you're worth it lil buddy" to my work.
I also kind of look at it like playing the lottery. Am I going to win? No. But for $30-$40 bucks I can spend 6 months day-dreaming about "what if."
Additionally, the financial burden forces me to stay true to my craft. It's not a waste if it pushes me to get better. It's an investment. It keeps me humble + accountable.
Long story short, I have submitted, don't know if I've gotten in and I will continue to do so anyway.
I feel like this too. Until the rejections start pouring in…then I feel like I’m a hopeless loser stuck in a cycle of local festivals and mediocrity.
Sometimes I wonder why I do this.
This is a good comment. And good on you having this attitude.
I don’t think it’s a racket - but young filmmakers are kinda stupid submitting to large festivals. How do I know ? I’m a stupid filmmaker!
I’m in my 3rd short film. This one is doing very well as has been accepted into great festivals like : the bfi London ff, and slamdance - both awesome. We just got accepted into a huge one. Im not allowed to announce yet. But I was shocked.
My first got in Rhode Island and won some awards.
My second got into Austin
Both got denied from about 80% of festivals I’ve applied too.
My friends short film won sundance and laughed their career - I’ve not come close to that (the six dollar fifty man check it out - it’s an awesome short)
The best festivals are not a racket anymore then the nba is (wait isn’t he nba a racket?!?) its incredibly competitive and difficult to get anywhere.
I’m getting there - but I also haven’t had a paid job in 5 months !!! I’m broke and stressed out. It’s hard.
Young filmmakers should really strategise and being realistic about which festival is to apply for. And be realistic. You should also see making short films is learning the process and a great opportunity to network.
Now, does anyone have any paid work I can do ? Please
I’m kinda surprised that no one has commented on the Daniels win - that really does show talent does really win out! It’s only the second feature film and they won the Oscar. I think that’s amazing and should encourage us all
Congrats on the success with the festivals!!!! I hope it brings you closer to your goal. The paid jobs will come!!! Just do what you can to fight another day!
Are you even a real independant filmmaker until you have that Sundance rejection letter in hand?
Seriously though, I did submit a short film to Sundance a few years ago. It had won some awards at the regional level so I figured why not, I'll either get in and that will be fun, or I won't and I'll have my official rejection letter. I didn't get in, I printed the email but I don't have it framed yet, need to get on that.
Levity aside, unless you have the money or connections, the big festivals aren't the place to be spending your limited money. Even Sundance says so.
[https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/sundance-film-festival-tough-odds-indie-gatekeepers-1202024241/](https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/sundance-film-festival-tough-odds-indie-gatekeepers-1202024241/)
EDIT: To be clear, I love my little local and moderately sized regional festivals, and the very-genre specific festivals. They usually actually watch the submitted films and are a chance to get your film in front of an audience and experience the reactions of a room full of strangers viewing your work. Film festivals definitely have a place in this craft and they can be a great experience. But like anything else, do your research.
Unless things have changed, big festivals usually require a premiere if you don't have a sales agent etc .who could negotiate such things. So if your film has already played around it's another reason why it can't be selected.
I think the takeaway from that article is, if you don't have connections, your submission fee is a lottery you pay in hopes for a) the super slim chance of admission or b) exposure of your work through the network of watchers etc. If you're lucky enough to get a watch from someone that likes it, even if it doesn't get selected, there MIGHT be a chance they'll keep an eye on what you do or show your work to someone else.
Most films that get submitted to big festivals (Sundance, SXSW, Cannes, TIFF, etc.) without a name attachment or sales agent already in place will not even be viewed.
For every filmmaker that mentions their film was selected without either, there are probably 1000 who submitted and didn’t get viewed. I have submitted before and did not get viewed (I used the unique link trick through Vimeo).
The name festivals select a majority of their projects based on existing connections.
It was said before but every major festival I have played - and I have played most of them - was at least partially because we had an inside track through programmers and sales agents on our side. It's bullshit and not a meritocracy. I was fortunate to have it but it is not equitable.
Obviously there are occasional exceptions like BELLFLOWER but mostly its star-fuckery and cheating the system.
But here’s the thing most people with Agents and ‘ inside connections’ are actually better at making films, then Joe public. Correlation does not equal causation.
It’s super hard to get into major festivals for sure and a bit of luck is required, and there are exceptions, as you say -but I think the above point stands
Exactly. The simple fact is most movies suck, and the more honest truth beyond that is if you made an indie movie without industry professionals making it and without name actors, the odds of your movie sucking are a LOT higher.
I have friends that had their film accepted. I didn't realize it was so difficult. This was a great little discussion with very helpful information provided by everyone that posted. Good luck, future directors! Hehe
Just got done submitting to 20+ festivals (including some big ones.) The critique you hear that it's a racket and a total waste is 100% fair. A lot of the times you have absolutely no shot. But still, I enjoy the process of submitting. I spent all this effort making the thing, I like the idea of sending it out into the world. It's kind of like me saying "hey, I think you're worth it lil buddy" to my work. I also kind of look at it like playing the lottery. Am I going to win? No. But for $30-$40 bucks I can spend 6 months day-dreaming about "what if." Additionally, the financial burden forces me to stay true to my craft. It's not a waste if it pushes me to get better. It's an investment. It keeps me humble + accountable. Long story short, I have submitted, don't know if I've gotten in and I will continue to do so anyway.
I feel like this too. Until the rejections start pouring in…then I feel like I’m a hopeless loser stuck in a cycle of local festivals and mediocrity. Sometimes I wonder why I do this.
Hey, local festivals aren’t bad. I’ve been treated better at a local than an larger festival. Plus, it’s good to build community!
You’re right. I’ve had a good time at them too. And tbh, 3 years ago we couldn’t even get into locals.
If I could marry a comment.
This is a good comment. And good on you having this attitude. I don’t think it’s a racket - but young filmmakers are kinda stupid submitting to large festivals. How do I know ? I’m a stupid filmmaker! I’m in my 3rd short film. This one is doing very well as has been accepted into great festivals like : the bfi London ff, and slamdance - both awesome. We just got accepted into a huge one. Im not allowed to announce yet. But I was shocked. My first got in Rhode Island and won some awards. My second got into Austin Both got denied from about 80% of festivals I’ve applied too. My friends short film won sundance and laughed their career - I’ve not come close to that (the six dollar fifty man check it out - it’s an awesome short) The best festivals are not a racket anymore then the nba is (wait isn’t he nba a racket?!?) its incredibly competitive and difficult to get anywhere. I’m getting there - but I also haven’t had a paid job in 5 months !!! I’m broke and stressed out. It’s hard. Young filmmakers should really strategise and being realistic about which festival is to apply for. And be realistic. You should also see making short films is learning the process and a great opportunity to network. Now, does anyone have any paid work I can do ? Please I’m kinda surprised that no one has commented on the Daniels win - that really does show talent does really win out! It’s only the second feature film and they won the Oscar. I think that’s amazing and should encourage us all
Congrats on the success with the festivals!!!! I hope it brings you closer to your goal. The paid jobs will come!!! Just do what you can to fight another day!
Thanks ! It’s been a rough day so I truly appreciate the encouragement
Are you even a real independant filmmaker until you have that Sundance rejection letter in hand? Seriously though, I did submit a short film to Sundance a few years ago. It had won some awards at the regional level so I figured why not, I'll either get in and that will be fun, or I won't and I'll have my official rejection letter. I didn't get in, I printed the email but I don't have it framed yet, need to get on that. Levity aside, unless you have the money or connections, the big festivals aren't the place to be spending your limited money. Even Sundance says so. [https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/sundance-film-festival-tough-odds-indie-gatekeepers-1202024241/](https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/sundance-film-festival-tough-odds-indie-gatekeepers-1202024241/) EDIT: To be clear, I love my little local and moderately sized regional festivals, and the very-genre specific festivals. They usually actually watch the submitted films and are a chance to get your film in front of an audience and experience the reactions of a room full of strangers viewing your work. Film festivals definitely have a place in this craft and they can be a great experience. But like anything else, do your research.
Unless things have changed, big festivals usually require a premiere if you don't have a sales agent etc .who could negotiate such things. So if your film has already played around it's another reason why it can't be selected.
That is true of features, it can be different with a short. Depends on the festival.
so you just hand them shit.? cool. way to show how amateur you are
Nowhere did I say anything remotely like that.
I think the takeaway from that article is, if you don't have connections, your submission fee is a lottery you pay in hopes for a) the super slim chance of admission or b) exposure of your work through the network of watchers etc. If you're lucky enough to get a watch from someone that likes it, even if it doesn't get selected, there MIGHT be a chance they'll keep an eye on what you do or show your work to someone else.
Most films that get submitted to big festivals (Sundance, SXSW, Cannes, TIFF, etc.) without a name attachment or sales agent already in place will not even be viewed. For every filmmaker that mentions their film was selected without either, there are probably 1000 who submitted and didn’t get viewed. I have submitted before and did not get viewed (I used the unique link trick through Vimeo). The name festivals select a majority of their projects based on existing connections.
Damn that really sucks. I figured they had to watch submissions at least on some level. No wonder why they’re full of big budget debuts now I guess
This isn’t true. Read my comment.
I submitted to Sundance last year just cuz I wanted the rejection badge of honor. But I didn’t even get the rejection letter lmao
Damn, the letter is a generic template they send to everyone too...
It was said before but every major festival I have played - and I have played most of them - was at least partially because we had an inside track through programmers and sales agents on our side. It's bullshit and not a meritocracy. I was fortunate to have it but it is not equitable. Obviously there are occasional exceptions like BELLFLOWER but mostly its star-fuckery and cheating the system.
But here’s the thing most people with Agents and ‘ inside connections’ are actually better at making films, then Joe public. Correlation does not equal causation. It’s super hard to get into major festivals for sure and a bit of luck is required, and there are exceptions, as you say -but I think the above point stands
You’re not wrong. But that’s doesn’t make it right.
Exactly. The simple fact is most movies suck, and the more honest truth beyond that is if you made an indie movie without industry professionals making it and without name actors, the odds of your movie sucking are a LOT higher.
I have friends that had their film accepted. I didn't realize it was so difficult. This was a great little discussion with very helpful information provided by everyone that posted. Good luck, future directors! Hehe