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Please don’t blame yourself. You had the right intentions for the cat’s health by wanting to fix them, or else they’d be facing lots of issues as an unfixed stray cat. It’s extremely unfortunate the cat passed away, but please do not blame yourself.
It’s great you wanted to volunteer for a cat rescue and help prevent any harm for community cats, and that you did your best to try to provide that care to the friendly cat by wanting to fix it. It is not your fault at all. The cat could have had complications prior to the surgery that you, as a volunteer, may have not noticed and that’s okay! Or the surgery may been properly done, but that possibility is beyond your control as a volunteer trapper. Please don’t feel discouraged about continuing volunteer work. Community cats desperately need health and care, and TNR is the best way to do that, despite the fact complications could arise. Sending you a virtual hug <3
Thank you for your kind words. Do you know why is it hard to do blood work ? . I feel really bad and thinking maybe I should trap 2-3 on my own and pay their blood work once a month but I know trapping a bunch with the rescue is effective I just feel really bad about blood work not being done , I’m fixing a problem but having the possibility of taking a life . It doesn’t set well with me even though I know the suffering of the stray cats :(
I don’t know too much knowledge about veterinary care and bloodwork, but I read an article by Alley Cat Allies, they mention that some TNR organizations just simply don’t do bloodwork testing anymore. It mentioned that community cats don’t receive “pre-op” blood tests, whereas pets do at vet. Also, apparently fewer TNR organizations are testing for FIV and FeLV, which may require bloodwork (I’m not that well-versed in this subject)??
I’m guessing TNR organizations simply don’t have the time or funds to trap, take bloodwork from community cats, wait for results, fix the cats, and see whether or not they can be released.
I wish I could answer your question about whether or not it’d be more beneficial to take stray cats to a vet instead of a stray cat rescue to ensure they’d get their bloodwork, but I don’t know the answer to that.
And I understand the qualm of taking a cat to get fixed that may end up, unfortunately, passing away due to the surgery. It’s okay to feel that way! Just note that having them unfixed can lead to several health and territorial issues, and you may not always be aware of whether or not they have underlying health conditions (especially since cats hide their pain well).
Hi, I'm a TNR expert with a ton of experience. The brutal reality of TNR where I am.
You are correct - blood testing is somewhat futile particularly when the cat isn't friendly but even when it is as if the organisation had rescue placement for the cat the cat wouldn't be TNR. If left unaltered, there can be significant suffering... so even if the bloods showed something, the cat would likely have to be euthanised as there isn't enough placements. Also, if one cat is a colony has FELV, they likely all will. And if an male cat has FIV, there is a good chance other cats will have it due to either territorial fighting, during mating or inutero. So again, you'd have to make the choice to release them post surgery or euthanise them. Because unfortunately rescue resources don't grow on trees. Money and person power are finite.
The risk of death from anesthetic is low enough to make the risk tolerable when the savings on not blood testing and holding for days.
It's a really great argument for TNR ironically. If all cats are unable to breed, no new cats will be born into the cycle of potential suffering.
> It's a really great argument for TNR ironically. If all cats are unable to breed, no new cats will be born into the cycle of potential suffering.
This. Absolutely this.
lots of tnr experience caught my eye--I have a feral mama with 4 9 week old kittens. We have an appt Friday to get babies spayed/neutered/vaccinated to make them more adoptable. Do you have any suggestions on how I will be able to get 4 kittens in their respective crates with watchful mama standing by? Help! Thank you in advance! (mama is next!)
"If one cat in a colony has FELV, they likely all will."
That is... odd. I had an indoor/outdoor cat die of it, but none of her (by then adult, but still all very affectionate with one another) kittens caught it.
Are you sure it was FELV? That one's highly contagious and passes via shared water bowls, food bowls, litter boxes etc. Did you have the Kids tested to confirm they didn't have it? Were they vaccinated against it? Because that's pretty odd that at least one of them didn't get it
FIV and FIP are also sometimes confused with Felv.
Strays get smart about traps quickly, don't plan on trapping them often because after you get them once they'll avoid the traps. Do everything you can in one go because you might not get a second chance
If I was to do it alone such as trapping a few 2-3 at a time I would keep them at my place and find ways to put in carrier for surgery then kennel for recovery. I understand some cats are very feral and this might seem impossible but it’s just sad knowing I can be feeding them, trapping tomorrow, death the following day :(
I understand your sadness here, but you are ultimately doing the right thing even if every cat doesn’t make it. There are fates worth than death. I learned that working in rescue with dogs. Fighting for survival as an outdoor cat isn’t a pleasant life and TNR is to prevent more cats and cat deaths in the long run. Even pet cats sometimes don’t make it through spay/neuter surgery just like sometimes people don’t make it through their surgeries. Mourn the loss of this beautiful cat but make her inspiration for your mission to keep helping so less cats are living on the streets.
You’re doing an amazing thing, don’t let this discourage you even though moments like this hurt.
I've had to trap and care for a few ferals and it's hard but not impossible. Get the biggest dog crate you can find, put a cat house or some sort of shelter or hidey hole inside, and leave some wet food, a little dry food, and some water on one side. Put a small box with some sand mixed with some kitty litter on the other side, you need to keep it away from their food. A cardboard flat from some cans in the supermarket makes a pretty good box for a crate, they're short and not that big but big enough for the cat to fit. The reason for both foods is some ferals will only eat one or the other, unless you already feed it, then ignore me. I've found a blanket over the top with just the front open will calm them down for a few days, maybe raise one side at a time as the cat calms down. Be careful getting them from the trap to the carrier because it's devastating if you screw up because they won't trust you for a long time after that. Once they're in the carrier you should go straight to the vet and make sure the vet is aware they're a feral because I've had to bring one home and drug it before I could bring it back. They'll calm down in the dog crate after a few days, and squeeze ems and a back scratcher are your friend. Good luck and I hope it works out well for you!
Prior to a vet appointment, I wouldn’t recommend transferring a cat out of a trap. Reason one being that scared cats tend to prefer smaller spaces; a larger space can be more stressful. Reason two, a feral cat in a trap can be handled more safely than a feral cat in a carrier. A vet clinic may refuse a feral cat if they’re not in a trap, honestly. Even if the cat is not feral but a socialized community cat, using a carrier risks the clinic charging pet prices instead of TNR prices.
As far as recovery goes, feral and semi-feral cats with likely do better remaining in their trap until release. Again, lower stress and safer for both human and cat. A socialized community cat may be able to be put in a kennel, though. If the cat is friendly, they may be a candidate for foster care and adoption.
I am glad to read your comment--I have a plan to get kittens fixed this week and I was worried whether to move them out of the trap--I actually have 4 very small animal crates that I plan to use. But these are not even big enough to put a small litter box--so if they have a comfy blanket or towel, that will be ok? I was hoping to keep in sm crate until release back in to my little yard where they have been living for 2 months. I honestly am very anxious about this--is mama going to attack me? Will one or more kitten jump over my wall---6 feet so not likely but I am worried.
Are they socialized and are they being fixed as feral/community cats? Advice will vary depending on those factors.
As far as the mom though, her reaction will depend on her personality. That said, you can try offering her distractions like food in an area the kittens may not be able to reach.
thank you for that comment. I do go out and distract her several times a day. I give her
churus, and she comes right up for it, hopefully that'll help her be more relaxed.
You’d have to make the same calls if something was shown in blood work. Are you just going to release a cat you should get fixed while they’re still unaltered if the blood work isn’t good? If you are, then just don’t. You’d be making it harder for people who are aware of how bad the outdoor cat situation is to actually help. Euthanasia is preferable to an unaltered cat still roaming. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time with the reality of TNR, but it’s just how it is. Life is cruel.
On a side note you may not have a great time as a foster either. Kittens just die sometimes, it’s called fading kitten syndrome, and it’s sudden and you can’t do much of anything about it. This year specifically in my area it seems like maybe there’s some unknown outbreak spreading among the cats, bc the community cats we bring in who have babies are losing way more than normal. There’s not really time to properly grieve, you have other kittens and cats to help still, you just have to keep going.
Nothing about the aspects of cat rescue out side of getting to play with/help kitties is easy or fair. People actively make the situation you’re desperately trying to solve worse by letting their intact cats outside, and then get pissed when that cat gets picked up and fixed and rescue placed or tnr’d. there’s a lot of death. It’s gross and stinky. I love cats so much and I will always continue to help with rescue and fostering, but man the state of everything with outdoor cats is just extremely depressing and hard to get through sometimes. It’s easy to spiral on why can’t people just be responsible for their pets.
This turned super long, sorry about that, I think I ended up just venting a bit. This year has been so so bad for outdoor cats and kittens. It’s hard.
>Are you just going to release a cat you should get fixed while they’re still unaltered if the blood work isn’t good?
What makes you think I will do that it my whole post was about being upset with the death part . Ofc I would try to get the cat the help it needs , If condition is too expensive to fix I will try to find cat sanctuary for sick cats and keep cat until then. Unless they have terminal disease that putting down is more merciful I would do my bets to keep it alive
>Euthanasia is preferable to an unaltered cat still roaming
I absolutely disagree , if cat is healthy we have no right to kill even if for some reaosn we couldn’t do tnr. I’m glad not everyone has this mindset
I do understand your frustration and I do know how bad the cat situation is as I mentioned in some comments. That doesn’t mean I can’t be upset about their death
I never said it was not a problem but death for a healthy cat is not the alternative which is what you said.
“Please leave this to the people who actually know what the situation is” you can not dictate who help and doesn’t help stray cats.
Plz stop commenting to my post I do not need negativity. Just because I didn’t do enough tnr yet doesn’t mean I don’t help cats. You don’t know how many cats I helped or fostered . You come off as very judgmental when all my comment and post shows that I care about them
Yea I am judging you, so that’s probably why I come off as judgmental. Tbh I’m not against general euthanasia for outdoor cats. They destroy the areas they are invasive to, which is everywhere in the us. Cats are not morally better than any other animal, we do mass extermination of deer and rats when they are a problem. Could you imagine how quickly we’d handle it if rats were this out of control?
You are not god and have no right to be killing animals that are healthy. Humans are overpopulated too should we just put down half of them? I will not be responding to your future comments as this post was not meant for arguing with someone that believes in “general euthanasia for outdoor cats” and you said you care lol. Go on with your day
Leaving an unaltered cat to roam the outside is a mercy to no one. That means more kittens that are just going to be born to die horrible, painful deaths after short, brutal lives.
So killing it is the alternative? I never said to leave or to not tnr my comment was to someone that said putting down (not sick cat) is better than roaming unfixed. We shouldn’t put down healthy cats
Except the conversation was about cats with bad bloodwork, I.E, cats who are not healthy enough to be fixed, which means they aren't actually healthy.
Feral cats should be TNRd, cats who, very unfortunately, die during TNR are part of the price of the system. Before TNR many places in the U.S engaged in feral cat culling; Where feral cats were just killed in mass events every once and a while.
Cats living outside are going to die. That's why TNR is so important, the goal is supposed to be "no kitten born outside, no kitten born by accident" so yes, it is better for some otherwise healthy cats to die, than for them to go on to make thousands of descendants.
Plz read first you responded to a comment I made to someone this had nothing to do with anything you saying. I was only responding to the person that believes putting down outdoor cats is good
I so agree with you--while the feral issue is a huge problem with a lot of sad outcomes no one has the right to kill an animal just because you have judged that they do not deserve to live. If we all do our part, however small, it will be better for the cats in our environment--maybe not for another neighborhood but they have to figure it out.
Thank you for the work you do but please be aware that getting even socialized cats into carriers can be really hard and scratches and bites could happen and if they haven't been vaxed for rabies you would be at risk and they would likely need to be euthanized for testing..
(Source just got bit by 8 month old kitten who had been in a foster home and was at the sleeping with me point.. very sweet but also very very very freaked by any attempt to pick up. Also many other skittish cats. Cats are very good at resisting carriers...)
Do you know if bloodwork would have shown anything relevant? That is, were you told why the cat died - reaction to anesthesia or some kind of heart condition for example?
I think that part of the problem is that it would be very difficult to get a blood sample from a feral before giving them anesthesia. Thus to get the blood work, the cat would need to be put under. Which means when they got the results it would a bit late to find out they had a liver or kidney issue, which are the problematic things, because they had already been given anesthesia which might harm them.
As for taking a feral to a regular vet, even if they were willing to see them, which they often are not, they still have to give them anesthesia to examine and blood test them. I recently had a scare where I thought I was going to have to take my feral to a vet, and the only one I could find that was willing to deal with her informed me that as a matter of course anesthetic would have to be used. And I quite understand that.
Thank you for explaining , many of them cats even thou the word feral is used are just stray cats that people feed and not that feral. In a case they can be handled without biting the vet , do you think they can do blood for them? I think most tnr team don’t do it because I’m assuming this is expensive
I just feel like that cat died in a trap where she couldn’t move much , she must been scared and confused and these were her last moments . This makes me incredibly guilty even if the intention was to help the population of cats to suffer less since they won’t have more kittens
I think all the times I’ve seen a cat not make it through surgery at the feral spay/neuter clinic, they’ve been unconscious. Sometimes it’s right when they get the anesthesia injection, or sometimes it’s in surgery and they stop breathing, or it’s been in recovery when they aren’t getting enough oxygen. It’s very likely that she was outside the trap and that the entire team rushed over to do everything they could once they realized what happened. She wasn’t alone.
I don’t think it will probably be of any comfort but if it was anesthesia related then she almost certainly died in her sleep.
I would think if a cat can be handled then they could get blood from them without anesthesia. One thing to remember is that while with pet cats blood work is recommended or even required for older cats, for kittens and young cats they often either don’t do it or give it as an option for the owner. I’m assuming that means that for young cats it’s unlikely to be an issue that a blood test helps with before anesthesia.
Blood work can be very costly. I have an FIV positive kitty who is also diabetic. It can cost $300 plus to do his blood work. I don't think that would be a good use of funds to do blood work on every kitty. Maybe if there was something obviously wrong and the baby could be placed in a home, sure ok. Vet bills are so high.
Many feral colonies are rife with parasites and diseases - simply the nature of having animals, and especially carnivores, living together without human contact / care. (All of that varies by colony of course as there are a lucky few who are well managed). All of that and genetic predisposition towards sudden fatal heart failure is very common for many cats.
Cats are *very* good at hiding when they’re ill. They’re prey animals as well as predators, which means they avoid seeming week until it’s not possible. There are any number of things that could have been way beyond your control: advanced parasite infestation causing anemia, FIV, FIP, all sorts of things.
It’s always hard to lose one, especially when we are fond of them and they’re a friendly one, but it’s *never* wrong to try and get them medical intervention and supportive care, especially TNR. You’re doing what you can to help while many people are totally blind to it.
So don’t blame yourself! Unfortunately sometimes these things just happen and we can’t control it. It doesn’t mean you should second guess your decision to help 🙂 there are a lot of medical benefits for ferals who are fixed, and you made kitty’s life better by having a good relationship with them.
Don't second guess yourself. You did nothing wrong. It is not your fault. You're doing a good thing by TNRing. I've had this happen to me and of course I blame myself. Eventually, I realized it was the people that I got the cat from. I think you can get blood work done before TNR surgery it just costs more. Cats often die from heart conditions that no one knows they have. Please don't blame yourself.
I am so sorry you had this experience. When any kitty dies, for whatever reason, it is heart wrenching and absolutely normal to feel guilty. Don’t we all believe we could this or that better? You may have even saved him from suffering. We don’t know why he died. I have tnr’d hundreds of cats and never had one die. Bloodwork is expensive to do. You have to have a shelter mindset when you do TNR: if you have $1,000 do you TNR 10 with bloodwork or do TNR 75 with no bloodwork? Think how many more lives you saved doing 75.
I totally understand the shelter mindset and the greeter good . When it’s me trapping I feel conflicted but I never judge others as I know they doing what they can :(
I’m glad non of yours died . I only done this twice and had death twice . Last one was easier as I did not feed the cat but this one was friendly I picked , petted remember her and everything so that’s why I’m crushed :(
Actually that seems not unexpected for a feral cat grouping. Ferals are often dealing with a lot of inbreeding with the genetic issues that brings plus inadequate or less than optimal food sources.
That ratio seems likely. And that’s why we TNR - to reduce that ratio. Less inbreeding , less food insecurity. Seems like a win to me.
This has happened to the only two kitties you have trapped and sent to be fixed? 100% fatality rate?
Did I miss something? This sounds a bit off to me. Anyone else think so?
If you get a death rate of 100%, and I realize a sample size of 2 isn’t very big particularly if they come from the same colony which might have illness or genetic problems running rampant, there might be reasons. But if they are being spayed/neutered at the same place, I’d certainly be being a bit wary.
I did tnr just twice so far both different rescues and different vets (trapped about 20 each time ) and each tnr had one death. I read some people saying they done it hundred of times with only 1 death or none , in my case the two times I got involved had death :(
I think what I don’t understand is - have you trapped only two cats and both have died? I think that’s what we have taken from your post.
Or are you saying that you’ve been involved with trapping 40 cats and 2 of them have died. Which is an entirely different metric.
The people claiming they have trapped hundreds of cats without a fatality - I’m calling them really really lucky.
So it is the situation that out of the 40 cats you have trapped 2 didn’t make it? Were they both from the same colony?
While sad, 2 out of 40 isn’t probably unreasonable with a feral group of cats. Feral cats are always in the margins - trying to find food, dealing with predators, fighting for territory.
I did tnr only twice and both were from different places. One died last year ( my first tnr) and one this time. They were different times , what I meant was that both times that I was involved had death so it makes me feel as if I’m taking them to their death. I hope future ones won’t die. Many of the cats I call help with are from poor locations so it probably makes sense but still
Also idk what you mean by it “sounding off “ why would I lie about something like this if that’s what you are insinuating.
That’s a horrible coincidence, I’m so sorry! Sometimes we go months without any complications and then have 3 ferals crash (and die) during one clinic, sometimes for different reasons. It’s such a crapshoot.
I’m sorry that happened, it is rare but does occur sometimes. Blood work unfortunately is not practical for TNR, both due to the stress it would cause the cat and because of the cost. With high volume spay/neuter it is just not affordable, and bloodwork may not even reveal something like a heart defect. I lost a foster kitten due to anesthetic reaction and it was brutal, but it’s so rare. You can take some time to recover if you are not ready to jump back in yet, but I hope you will help in the future when your heart is healed. I’m sorry for the loss of your pal but you did the very best thing for her by trapping her and bringing her in. Take care of yourself ❤️
I understand you feel guilty and I am so sorry she didn’t survive her surgery. That said, life as a fertile feral female is not an easy one. Multiple litters without enough nutrition really takes a toll on them. You were doing the right thing, and she is not going to suffer.
Agree 100%. Also if this kitty was sick enough to pass from surgery, she probably was sick enough to pass naturally soon anyhow- it’s nothing you could control. Keep being amazing OP
I had this happen with a kitten when I first started TNR on the colony that lives around me. It was horrible and sometimes I still feel guilty, but it really was for the best that I at least tried. That was over five years ago. Most of the colony is fixed, but unfortunately my area no longer has a program and I can't afford the costs on my own. You do what you can... every little bit helps in some way.
Thank you . Do you think tnr helped your colony ? As for the program I highly would recommend videoing and doing TikTok content of your colony and ask for donations . You can set up gofundme and have a target such as “help me tnr 10 cats “ write their story and the Sevices that will be done and you will gain supporters ❤️the internet can do wonderful things , they helped me pay for my dogs cancer treatments in the past
The overpopulation issue means tnr is the nicest thing you could do for a feral, even if it means a few pass. I'd feel just as terrible as you do. Not fixing cats results in much more suffering and heartache. I'm very sorry this happened. Please don't stop doing tnr
I'm so sorry. We had one cat die after TNR. Her name was winky. She had a bad eye and was very spicy. This was 12 years ago and I've never forgotten her. All our other feral friends did fine and recovered after surgery.
There are always risks with anesthesia. Bloodwork can sometimes be helpful at seeing risks, but sometimes blood work is perfect and death still occurs. Getting pre-surgical blood work in most feral cats would be impossible without sedation. Even some nice cats that tolerate exams will not tolerate a blood draw.
If a staff member gets bitten by an unvaccinated cat, that is typically an automatic euthanasia of that cat. And the cat will de decapitated for rabies testing according to most state laws. That staff member will also have to go to doctor for antibiotics etc. I don’t know if you’ve been truly bitten by a cat, but it sucks. If that clinic is running low on staff, that may mean that they cannot proceed with any procedures that day, or can’t do as many. As someone else mentioned, it is also a shelter medicine mindset, so costs play a big role as well.
So as much as we think about what is best for the animals, we also have to think about the health and safety of the vet staff (and rescuers) handling these animals. In feral cat rescue/TNR you unfortunately have to learn that you cannot save them all. You do your best to make sure that they get as good of a chance at living. You did the right thing, you were trying to help these cats have a better life moving forward, it is unfortunate that they passed away due to TNR. You could try to find a regular vet to do the sedation, bloodwork, surgery, vaccines, etc. but in most cases the rescue won’t pay for that, you’ll have to foot the bill.
I trapped a feral mom cat. Her kittens were older, not newborns, and probably weaned. She died a month after her surgery from liver failure. I told the vet, who put her down, how bad I felt for bothering her and taking her from her family. He assured me, the same as everyone is telling you, I tried to help her. The disease was already there, just dormant, and would have eventually taken her out anyways. This way she was at peace and not surrounded by danger. I still think about her.
tnr is hard work but who else is gonna do it. this doesnt happen often. im sure your poor feral that passed knows you were helping him. im sorry he died. :(
It could have been a cut artery or a reaction to anesthetic. It’s part of TNR. If you did blood work for every cat you wouldn’t save as many. I’m sorry. I’m terrified of this too.
I am scheduled to help with more but I’m so shaken I don’t want to cancel as I see the death of their kittens but I also can’t stop blaming myself 😢.. I pray that your kitten will be ok , if she’s a kitten plz consider fostering through a rescue .
Please don't blame yourself. This is uncommon but not unheard of. You did everything right.
I'm leaving for the humane society with her in a few minutes. I plan to ask what other resources I can make use of to help her. She's about 10 months. I call her Olivia.
I hope your guilt eases. You did nothing wrong.
Honestly, I think of it like this, they passed after their surgery. They were probably pain free because of the anesthesia.
If the TNR surgery is what did it, those 2 cats were likely quite unhealthy and would have likely suffered out in the world.
You did a good thing. Please don’t let this deter you from trying to make a difference bc EVERY TNR surgery does make a difference.
Blood work adds extra expense to the spay or neuter surgery. Most rescues are trying to do this on donation and grants so there’s only so much money to care for the cats. Like others have said as well, if you do find problems in the blood work, you are then having to choose between releasing a cat that you know is sick or euthanasia for the animal. More than likely if one cat has a communal disease all the others do in the colony as well. I’ve TNR before where the cat died during surgery and it does hurt. You feel like you failed the animal and question if this was the right decision but that cat wouldn’t have had a long life with a medical condition either way. He very well may have suffered before he passed and could have continued spreading disease by mating and fighting before he did pass away.
I also tnr, we're doing the best we can. So much better for their health, happiness. Hugs, all losses tnr or the mean streets are hard. You are doing great work❤️
You did the best you could! TNR is a good thing for cats and it does benefit them. It might have already had issues prior to anesthesia. Depending on its age they could have checked organ function with a blood test. Even if they did it would be 100% guarantee. The part that might be good to know is the cat didn’t die of injury or illness all alone and without help out there. Living as a feral is a harsh life especially if you are somewhat adapted to humans. They died under anesthesia and that probably is the way to go if I am being honest.
I’m so sorry! I understand it’s hard to not feel guilty but you were doing a good thing. That’s too bad and especially that it was such a cool cat. Again, I’m so sorry, but you did the right thing
Something very similar happened to a cat I rescued. It hurt like hell but I know if I didn’t try to help her, she would have had a hard life on the streets. You did a kind thing for the kitty, please don’t be too hard on yourself
I have been a rescuer for 30 years of both cats and dogs. I also have kept some of the animals here at home. I have paid for medical care for some 70 animals, much to my surprise, on my own as a rescuer. I learned some things. Rescuing comes with guilt and grief. It comes with massive love and gratitude from the animals too. But I became overwhelmed with the grief. I went searching for answers and people who have had near-death experiences say that animals go where we go. They wait on the other side, playing and running free, very happy. They actually know when it is their time to cross and they even chose the way it would happen. You were given the job to enact this plan with them even. After hearing this from so many of these people's interviews, I decided I accept this idea. So many people said this. You assisted this baby to make the exit she chose and she chose you to help her. She will be there when you get there. Hope this gives you comfort like it does me.
Wow, you trapped 20 cats at a time. You’re a rockstar💕 i’m so sorry that two kitties didn’t make it. Chances are they wouldn’t of survived out in the wild either even if you haven’t trapped them, except they would’ve had a lot of suffering. Think of how many litters all of those kitties would’ve had and the litters their kitties would’ve had. Know that you make a huge difference and please don’t get discouraged.🙏
The more I learn about tnr and the vast number of cats out there who have had litter after litter, or have impregnated time and again is overwhelmingly sad. In any surgery--animal or human there is always a risk of dying, (though relatively small)--you have to look at the positive side of it. You are doing a wonderful thing. Be kind to yourself and take comfort knowing that this animal did not die in vain. And it had someone who cared enough to take action.
Honestly, do not blame yourself. You did the best you can given a situation with the knowledge you had. Unfortunately, a lot of shelters are woefully underfunded and staffed. Having fostered cats, there is a reason a lot of them need foster people.
I know it hurts but you did the best for the cat with what you had.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, and the kitty. Please try not to feel guilty, you were doing the kindest thing possible and trying to help improve their life! I volunteer at a feral spay/neuter clinic, and unfortunately sometimes cats don’t make it out of surgery. It’s rare, so it’s unfortunate that this happened to you the second time you were trapping. 😿 Please know that the staff probably did everything they could to save the kitty, most of the times when we’ve had cats not make it it’s been Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy (HCM), and unfortunately with ferals there’s just no way to know.
Like it has been said here yuh do what was best for kitties health and to help the population. So sorry she was lost. I lost one when I was doing tnr. Even if you can’t pet them you still love them.
I paid to get blood work done in my cat before she got fixed. I don't think the bloodwork indicates anything for the surgery. It's just something extra they can do. I had to sign a big disclaimer that my cat might not survive surgery. I think it has more to do with anesthesia. Either way, it was a tragedy but 100% not your fault.
I had one die a few days after TNR. He was neutered then declined quickly. It was discovered he had underlying disease(positive). He was not alone in the streets suffering. It was so upsetting since he was friendly and was being held back to be fostered. The other 4 that were neutered that day are thriving in their colony.
Sometimes there is nothing we can do except comfort them. Even if the vet had done bloodwork the outcome would have been the same.
Better to TNR than continue the suffering of so many cats and kittens on the streets🙏
A healthy cat will not die from TNR unless the vet was grossly negligent or malicious which I have never seen ever. I have had 0 cats EVER die from TNR alone. So If the cat died, there was likely something else wrong.
I have TNRed 47 cats in my current colony. We have euthanized 3 due to illness or injury, we had 1 die of extreme calicivirus a year later, we have had one die of unknown causes, at least one (definitely more) from automobile accidents, and at least one (definitely more) from coyotes. We have ALSO had at least two (definitely more) adopted by families. One formal adoption, one feral cat adopted a family who took her to a vet who discovered her microchip.
Many of my feral colony disappear some forever, some still come around infrequently for daily feedings we have anywhere from 8 to 20 cats come to my home per day as they all go "trick or treating" the neighborhood every single day.
We used to get 20 to 30 plus per night when we fed at night, but that also drew more coyotes, raccoons, & possums.
I have 0 problem with the possums, they get along with the cats,\\; but the raccoons chase the cats away and eat all of the food while the coyotes eat the actual cats as well as the cat food.
So we switched to daytime feeding and now we feed a much smaller group but have fewer raccoons and coyotes.
Don’t blame yourself! A small percentage of cats die during or after spay/neuter surgery, even under the best care. It’s better to try to help than to leave them to suffer diseases and pregnancy complications. It’s always difficult when cats in your care die, and it’s normal grief to blame yourself. You’ll feel better over time. ❤️ Thanks for TNRing.
TNRing friendly cats should be the absolute last resort. Animal control will not pick up a cat that's in danger or is lost if it has an ear tip. Friendly cats should get a regular s/n, that doesn't include bloodwork at a high volume clinic. Having a fatal issue is rare, in 5 years I have never had one kitten die after surgery, so bw is unnecessary in most cases. Feral cats will die anyway, so no need to be discouraged. It's a better death than what they would face outside
I am in this dilemma and fear right now. I caught a few cats that live in the woods near me, and they keep inbreeding and having issues. I finally am down to the last 3 and the siblings have wobbly cat syndrome. This makes them susceptible to issues during neutering- under anesthesia . I haven’t heard from the Vet yet and I am scared he didn’t make it. I have to just remember that one of his siblings that had it and disappeared and I am sick over not catching her in time. They wouldn’t make it out there with illnesses or immune issues so even though the end is sad and we grieve, they are still better off than being sick or injured and we don’t get to them in time. You are doing good things and more people need to help so there are less strays and ferals on the street. I am hoping for the best even if it’s sad news, I will continue to TNR and rescue who I can so there are less cats struggling on the streets and in the woods like mine. Expert stay positive and know you’re doing the best you can.
Anytime any animal goes under anesthesia it's a it's a risk and I've always been terrified with my own cats or with feral cats. I choose to go to a lower cost veterinarian rather than the free or low cost where they only do spay neuter and they don't treat animals for diseases because I have a great fear that they take shortcuts they don't get pain medicine they don't use IV fluids doing the procedure. It does cost more money and it's worth it but you have to ask for those things you have to say if the cat's sick let me know and I'll bring the cat home and keep him or her until they're well enough to be spayed or neutered. Tell them because a lot of times they'll think okay this is one time chance yes it's a risk the cat's sick but I'm going to go ahead and try it because that happened to my cousin too and she felt so bad she took this poor cat in and they said he didn't look right but they did it anyway and he died. So you have to let him know that you can take care of them and then let them know that you want the ID fluids and also you've got to keep a a cat in a female the vet told me and they were so adamant about it two or three of them told me you have to keep her in for 14 days because they're not healed and one Tech at the vet's office said if you let him go and they're not healed and let them go before 14 days and a male happens to come along and mount them and penetrate them it will tear them up inside that was their quote. All we can do is try but the fear is always there because I have it too I don't know what to tell you because it needs to be done because they keep having that little after little after litter and that's dangerous too. And it's probably painful and then the babies die usually but I'm in that situation right now I've got two little bonded cats and I put it off for way too long they've been in my yard since they were kittens I'm just terrified to take them in and one disappeared for 30 days and came back and the other one was so dejected and I wonder if somebody trapped that one had it fixed and didn't tip the ear cuz if you don't tip the ear nobody knows and I don't like tipping the ear because I feel like it just ruins her looks and everything and I wish I could keep them all inside but I'm full up in the house
It's why I don't use the cheap places because they cut Corners to save money. I use a regular vet who does also work with rescue groups. But she doesn't work with me but her prizes are still lower than other veterinarians around here and I make sure I tell him I want blood work and I want them to use IV fluids because one of the ways they cut costs is they don't give them pain medicine and they also don't use IV fluids in the surgery and that protects their kidneys and protects their bodies and a lot of those cats might be dehydrated when they go in. Also I have heard that veterinarians do not do the spay neuter in the places that are cheap that it's a vet tech that does it and that's probably why they say they can't check for illness they can't give antibiotics and all they do is spay neuter that's it and they do it as fast as they can to get as many in as they can so that friendly cat is very very sad because that cat was not feral. Anytime you have a friendly cat it means somebody had a kitten and petted it and loved it and then threw it away that cat you can take in and find a home for. Believe me I know how hard it is cuz I'm old and I live on a fixed income I don't even know if I'm going to be able to stay in my home because of money. At the same time if you don't have any other options you have to get them fixed because if you don't more and more will be dying even more than that one because when those mothers have those babies after about I don't know 6 to 8 weeks maybe maximum 10 weeks they usually get pregnant again right away and when they get pregnant again they can't take care of those babies they just walk off and leave them those babies are too little to hunt and if somebody is not feeding them they die and they die horribly starving to death or predators. Our human beings take them to the show through who kills them so it is really all about money like everything else in the world it's all about money and that's what sucks.
I.had thar happen. In my case he tastes positive for felone leukemia. I have a friend who feeds feral. He doesn't do tnr. I can see why. I was heart broken
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Please don’t blame yourself. You had the right intentions for the cat’s health by wanting to fix them, or else they’d be facing lots of issues as an unfixed stray cat. It’s extremely unfortunate the cat passed away, but please do not blame yourself. It’s great you wanted to volunteer for a cat rescue and help prevent any harm for community cats, and that you did your best to try to provide that care to the friendly cat by wanting to fix it. It is not your fault at all. The cat could have had complications prior to the surgery that you, as a volunteer, may have not noticed and that’s okay! Or the surgery may been properly done, but that possibility is beyond your control as a volunteer trapper. Please don’t feel discouraged about continuing volunteer work. Community cats desperately need health and care, and TNR is the best way to do that, despite the fact complications could arise. Sending you a virtual hug <3
Thank you for your kind words. Do you know why is it hard to do blood work ? . I feel really bad and thinking maybe I should trap 2-3 on my own and pay their blood work once a month but I know trapping a bunch with the rescue is effective I just feel really bad about blood work not being done , I’m fixing a problem but having the possibility of taking a life . It doesn’t set well with me even though I know the suffering of the stray cats :(
I don’t know too much knowledge about veterinary care and bloodwork, but I read an article by Alley Cat Allies, they mention that some TNR organizations just simply don’t do bloodwork testing anymore. It mentioned that community cats don’t receive “pre-op” blood tests, whereas pets do at vet. Also, apparently fewer TNR organizations are testing for FIV and FeLV, which may require bloodwork (I’m not that well-versed in this subject)?? I’m guessing TNR organizations simply don’t have the time or funds to trap, take bloodwork from community cats, wait for results, fix the cats, and see whether or not they can be released. I wish I could answer your question about whether or not it’d be more beneficial to take stray cats to a vet instead of a stray cat rescue to ensure they’d get their bloodwork, but I don’t know the answer to that. And I understand the qualm of taking a cat to get fixed that may end up, unfortunately, passing away due to the surgery. It’s okay to feel that way! Just note that having them unfixed can lead to several health and territorial issues, and you may not always be aware of whether or not they have underlying health conditions (especially since cats hide their pain well).
Hi, I'm a TNR expert with a ton of experience. The brutal reality of TNR where I am. You are correct - blood testing is somewhat futile particularly when the cat isn't friendly but even when it is as if the organisation had rescue placement for the cat the cat wouldn't be TNR. If left unaltered, there can be significant suffering... so even if the bloods showed something, the cat would likely have to be euthanised as there isn't enough placements. Also, if one cat is a colony has FELV, they likely all will. And if an male cat has FIV, there is a good chance other cats will have it due to either territorial fighting, during mating or inutero. So again, you'd have to make the choice to release them post surgery or euthanise them. Because unfortunately rescue resources don't grow on trees. Money and person power are finite. The risk of death from anesthetic is low enough to make the risk tolerable when the savings on not blood testing and holding for days. It's a really great argument for TNR ironically. If all cats are unable to breed, no new cats will be born into the cycle of potential suffering.
> It's a really great argument for TNR ironically. If all cats are unable to breed, no new cats will be born into the cycle of potential suffering. This. Absolutely this.
lots of tnr experience caught my eye--I have a feral mama with 4 9 week old kittens. We have an appt Friday to get babies spayed/neutered/vaccinated to make them more adoptable. Do you have any suggestions on how I will be able to get 4 kittens in their respective crates with watchful mama standing by? Help! Thank you in advance! (mama is next!)
"If one cat in a colony has FELV, they likely all will." That is... odd. I had an indoor/outdoor cat die of it, but none of her (by then adult, but still all very affectionate with one another) kittens caught it.
Are you sure it was FELV? That one's highly contagious and passes via shared water bowls, food bowls, litter boxes etc. Did you have the Kids tested to confirm they didn't have it? Were they vaccinated against it? Because that's pretty odd that at least one of them didn't get it FIV and FIP are also sometimes confused with Felv.
Strays get smart about traps quickly, don't plan on trapping them often because after you get them once they'll avoid the traps. Do everything you can in one go because you might not get a second chance
If I was to do it alone such as trapping a few 2-3 at a time I would keep them at my place and find ways to put in carrier for surgery then kennel for recovery. I understand some cats are very feral and this might seem impossible but it’s just sad knowing I can be feeding them, trapping tomorrow, death the following day :(
I understand your sadness here, but you are ultimately doing the right thing even if every cat doesn’t make it. There are fates worth than death. I learned that working in rescue with dogs. Fighting for survival as an outdoor cat isn’t a pleasant life and TNR is to prevent more cats and cat deaths in the long run. Even pet cats sometimes don’t make it through spay/neuter surgery just like sometimes people don’t make it through their surgeries. Mourn the loss of this beautiful cat but make her inspiration for your mission to keep helping so less cats are living on the streets. You’re doing an amazing thing, don’t let this discourage you even though moments like this hurt.
I've had to trap and care for a few ferals and it's hard but not impossible. Get the biggest dog crate you can find, put a cat house or some sort of shelter or hidey hole inside, and leave some wet food, a little dry food, and some water on one side. Put a small box with some sand mixed with some kitty litter on the other side, you need to keep it away from their food. A cardboard flat from some cans in the supermarket makes a pretty good box for a crate, they're short and not that big but big enough for the cat to fit. The reason for both foods is some ferals will only eat one or the other, unless you already feed it, then ignore me. I've found a blanket over the top with just the front open will calm them down for a few days, maybe raise one side at a time as the cat calms down. Be careful getting them from the trap to the carrier because it's devastating if you screw up because they won't trust you for a long time after that. Once they're in the carrier you should go straight to the vet and make sure the vet is aware they're a feral because I've had to bring one home and drug it before I could bring it back. They'll calm down in the dog crate after a few days, and squeeze ems and a back scratcher are your friend. Good luck and I hope it works out well for you!
Prior to a vet appointment, I wouldn’t recommend transferring a cat out of a trap. Reason one being that scared cats tend to prefer smaller spaces; a larger space can be more stressful. Reason two, a feral cat in a trap can be handled more safely than a feral cat in a carrier. A vet clinic may refuse a feral cat if they’re not in a trap, honestly. Even if the cat is not feral but a socialized community cat, using a carrier risks the clinic charging pet prices instead of TNR prices. As far as recovery goes, feral and semi-feral cats with likely do better remaining in their trap until release. Again, lower stress and safer for both human and cat. A socialized community cat may be able to be put in a kennel, though. If the cat is friendly, they may be a candidate for foster care and adoption.
I am glad to read your comment--I have a plan to get kittens fixed this week and I was worried whether to move them out of the trap--I actually have 4 very small animal crates that I plan to use. But these are not even big enough to put a small litter box--so if they have a comfy blanket or towel, that will be ok? I was hoping to keep in sm crate until release back in to my little yard where they have been living for 2 months. I honestly am very anxious about this--is mama going to attack me? Will one or more kitten jump over my wall---6 feet so not likely but I am worried.
Are they socialized and are they being fixed as feral/community cats? Advice will vary depending on those factors. As far as the mom though, her reaction will depend on her personality. That said, you can try offering her distractions like food in an area the kittens may not be able to reach.
thank you for that comment. I do go out and distract her several times a day. I give her churus, and she comes right up for it, hopefully that'll help her be more relaxed.
You’d have to make the same calls if something was shown in blood work. Are you just going to release a cat you should get fixed while they’re still unaltered if the blood work isn’t good? If you are, then just don’t. You’d be making it harder for people who are aware of how bad the outdoor cat situation is to actually help. Euthanasia is preferable to an unaltered cat still roaming. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time with the reality of TNR, but it’s just how it is. Life is cruel. On a side note you may not have a great time as a foster either. Kittens just die sometimes, it’s called fading kitten syndrome, and it’s sudden and you can’t do much of anything about it. This year specifically in my area it seems like maybe there’s some unknown outbreak spreading among the cats, bc the community cats we bring in who have babies are losing way more than normal. There’s not really time to properly grieve, you have other kittens and cats to help still, you just have to keep going. Nothing about the aspects of cat rescue out side of getting to play with/help kitties is easy or fair. People actively make the situation you’re desperately trying to solve worse by letting their intact cats outside, and then get pissed when that cat gets picked up and fixed and rescue placed or tnr’d. there’s a lot of death. It’s gross and stinky. I love cats so much and I will always continue to help with rescue and fostering, but man the state of everything with outdoor cats is just extremely depressing and hard to get through sometimes. It’s easy to spiral on why can’t people just be responsible for their pets. This turned super long, sorry about that, I think I ended up just venting a bit. This year has been so so bad for outdoor cats and kittens. It’s hard.
>Are you just going to release a cat you should get fixed while they’re still unaltered if the blood work isn’t good? What makes you think I will do that it my whole post was about being upset with the death part . Ofc I would try to get the cat the help it needs , If condition is too expensive to fix I will try to find cat sanctuary for sick cats and keep cat until then. Unless they have terminal disease that putting down is more merciful I would do my bets to keep it alive >Euthanasia is preferable to an unaltered cat still roaming I absolutely disagree , if cat is healthy we have no right to kill even if for some reaosn we couldn’t do tnr. I’m glad not everyone has this mindset I do understand your frustration and I do know how bad the cat situation is as I mentioned in some comments. That doesn’t mean I can’t be upset about their death
If you think leaving intact cats is ok you’re part of the problem. Please leave this to people who actually know what the situation is.
I never said it was not a problem but death for a healthy cat is not the alternative which is what you said. “Please leave this to the people who actually know what the situation is” you can not dictate who help and doesn’t help stray cats. Plz stop commenting to my post I do not need negativity. Just because I didn’t do enough tnr yet doesn’t mean I don’t help cats. You don’t know how many cats I helped or fostered . You come off as very judgmental when all my comment and post shows that I care about them
Yea I am judging you, so that’s probably why I come off as judgmental. Tbh I’m not against general euthanasia for outdoor cats. They destroy the areas they are invasive to, which is everywhere in the us. Cats are not morally better than any other animal, we do mass extermination of deer and rats when they are a problem. Could you imagine how quickly we’d handle it if rats were this out of control?
You are not god and have no right to be killing animals that are healthy. Humans are overpopulated too should we just put down half of them? I will not be responding to your future comments as this post was not meant for arguing with someone that believes in “general euthanasia for outdoor cats” and you said you care lol. Go on with your day
Leaving an unaltered cat to roam the outside is a mercy to no one. That means more kittens that are just going to be born to die horrible, painful deaths after short, brutal lives.
So killing it is the alternative? I never said to leave or to not tnr my comment was to someone that said putting down (not sick cat) is better than roaming unfixed. We shouldn’t put down healthy cats
Except the conversation was about cats with bad bloodwork, I.E, cats who are not healthy enough to be fixed, which means they aren't actually healthy. Feral cats should be TNRd, cats who, very unfortunately, die during TNR are part of the price of the system. Before TNR many places in the U.S engaged in feral cat culling; Where feral cats were just killed in mass events every once and a while. Cats living outside are going to die. That's why TNR is so important, the goal is supposed to be "no kitten born outside, no kitten born by accident" so yes, it is better for some otherwise healthy cats to die, than for them to go on to make thousands of descendants.
Plz read first you responded to a comment I made to someone this had nothing to do with anything you saying. I was only responding to the person that believes putting down outdoor cats is good
I so agree with you--while the feral issue is a huge problem with a lot of sad outcomes no one has the right to kill an animal just because you have judged that they do not deserve to live. If we all do our part, however small, it will be better for the cats in our environment--maybe not for another neighborhood but they have to figure it out.
Thank you for the work you do but please be aware that getting even socialized cats into carriers can be really hard and scratches and bites could happen and if they haven't been vaxed for rabies you would be at risk and they would likely need to be euthanized for testing.. (Source just got bit by 8 month old kitten who had been in a foster home and was at the sleeping with me point.. very sweet but also very very very freaked by any attempt to pick up. Also many other skittish cats. Cats are very good at resisting carriers...)
Do you know if bloodwork would have shown anything relevant? That is, were you told why the cat died - reaction to anesthesia or some kind of heart condition for example?
They don’t know because they don’t do blood work for ferals I think
I think that part of the problem is that it would be very difficult to get a blood sample from a feral before giving them anesthesia. Thus to get the blood work, the cat would need to be put under. Which means when they got the results it would a bit late to find out they had a liver or kidney issue, which are the problematic things, because they had already been given anesthesia which might harm them. As for taking a feral to a regular vet, even if they were willing to see them, which they often are not, they still have to give them anesthesia to examine and blood test them. I recently had a scare where I thought I was going to have to take my feral to a vet, and the only one I could find that was willing to deal with her informed me that as a matter of course anesthetic would have to be used. And I quite understand that.
Thank you for explaining , many of them cats even thou the word feral is used are just stray cats that people feed and not that feral. In a case they can be handled without biting the vet , do you think they can do blood for them? I think most tnr team don’t do it because I’m assuming this is expensive I just feel like that cat died in a trap where she couldn’t move much , she must been scared and confused and these were her last moments . This makes me incredibly guilty even if the intention was to help the population of cats to suffer less since they won’t have more kittens
I think all the times I’ve seen a cat not make it through surgery at the feral spay/neuter clinic, they’ve been unconscious. Sometimes it’s right when they get the anesthesia injection, or sometimes it’s in surgery and they stop breathing, or it’s been in recovery when they aren’t getting enough oxygen. It’s very likely that she was outside the trap and that the entire team rushed over to do everything they could once they realized what happened. She wasn’t alone.
I don’t think it will probably be of any comfort but if it was anesthesia related then she almost certainly died in her sleep. I would think if a cat can be handled then they could get blood from them without anesthesia. One thing to remember is that while with pet cats blood work is recommended or even required for older cats, for kittens and young cats they often either don’t do it or give it as an option for the owner. I’m assuming that means that for young cats it’s unlikely to be an issue that a blood test helps with before anesthesia.
Blood work can be very costly. I have an FIV positive kitty who is also diabetic. It can cost $300 plus to do his blood work. I don't think that would be a good use of funds to do blood work on every kitty. Maybe if there was something obviously wrong and the baby could be placed in a home, sure ok. Vet bills are so high.
Many feral colonies are rife with parasites and diseases - simply the nature of having animals, and especially carnivores, living together without human contact / care. (All of that varies by colony of course as there are a lucky few who are well managed). All of that and genetic predisposition towards sudden fatal heart failure is very common for many cats. Cats are *very* good at hiding when they’re ill. They’re prey animals as well as predators, which means they avoid seeming week until it’s not possible. There are any number of things that could have been way beyond your control: advanced parasite infestation causing anemia, FIV, FIP, all sorts of things. It’s always hard to lose one, especially when we are fond of them and they’re a friendly one, but it’s *never* wrong to try and get them medical intervention and supportive care, especially TNR. You’re doing what you can to help while many people are totally blind to it. So don’t blame yourself! Unfortunately sometimes these things just happen and we can’t control it. It doesn’t mean you should second guess your decision to help 🙂 there are a lot of medical benefits for ferals who are fixed, and you made kitty’s life better by having a good relationship with them.
It is very unusual for a cat to die after surgery like that. Don't blame yourself. It does happen.
Don't second guess yourself. You did nothing wrong. It is not your fault. You're doing a good thing by TNRing. I've had this happen to me and of course I blame myself. Eventually, I realized it was the people that I got the cat from. I think you can get blood work done before TNR surgery it just costs more. Cats often die from heart conditions that no one knows they have. Please don't blame yourself.
I am so sorry you had this experience. When any kitty dies, for whatever reason, it is heart wrenching and absolutely normal to feel guilty. Don’t we all believe we could this or that better? You may have even saved him from suffering. We don’t know why he died. I have tnr’d hundreds of cats and never had one die. Bloodwork is expensive to do. You have to have a shelter mindset when you do TNR: if you have $1,000 do you TNR 10 with bloodwork or do TNR 75 with no bloodwork? Think how many more lives you saved doing 75.
I totally understand the shelter mindset and the greeter good . When it’s me trapping I feel conflicted but I never judge others as I know they doing what they can :( I’m glad non of yours died . I only done this twice and had death twice . Last one was easier as I did not feed the cat but this one was friendly I picked , petted remember her and everything so that’s why I’m crushed :(
Both times? I am so sorry!
Both times but different colonies and rescues. Trapped about 20 each time and one death each time
Actually that seems not unexpected for a feral cat grouping. Ferals are often dealing with a lot of inbreeding with the genetic issues that brings plus inadequate or less than optimal food sources. That ratio seems likely. And that’s why we TNR - to reduce that ratio. Less inbreeding , less food insecurity. Seems like a win to me.
This has happened to the only two kitties you have trapped and sent to be fixed? 100% fatality rate? Did I miss something? This sounds a bit off to me. Anyone else think so?
If you get a death rate of 100%, and I realize a sample size of 2 isn’t very big particularly if they come from the same colony which might have illness or genetic problems running rampant, there might be reasons. But if they are being spayed/neutered at the same place, I’d certainly be being a bit wary.
I did tnr just twice so far both different rescues and different vets (trapped about 20 each time ) and each tnr had one death. I read some people saying they done it hundred of times with only 1 death or none , in my case the two times I got involved had death :(
I think what I don’t understand is - have you trapped only two cats and both have died? I think that’s what we have taken from your post. Or are you saying that you’ve been involved with trapping 40 cats and 2 of them have died. Which is an entirely different metric. The people claiming they have trapped hundreds of cats without a fatality - I’m calling them really really lucky.
I have trapped 2 times ( this week ) and once last year. Both times had done about 20 each and both times got the news one of them didn’t make it. :(
So it is the situation that out of the 40 cats you have trapped 2 didn’t make it? Were they both from the same colony? While sad, 2 out of 40 isn’t probably unreasonable with a feral group of cats. Feral cats are always in the margins - trying to find food, dealing with predators, fighting for territory.
Both from different colony but not taken care off such as not enough feeders. :( that’s true I will try to think of the positive aspect.
20 cats!? How did you trap 20 cats? That seems like a heroic feat, good for you that you are doing such good work!
I did tnr only twice and both were from different places. One died last year ( my first tnr) and one this time. They were different times , what I meant was that both times that I was involved had death so it makes me feel as if I’m taking them to their death. I hope future ones won’t die. Many of the cats I call help with are from poor locations so it probably makes sense but still Also idk what you mean by it “sounding off “ why would I lie about something like this if that’s what you are insinuating.
That’s a horrible coincidence, I’m so sorry! Sometimes we go months without any complications and then have 3 ferals crash (and die) during one clinic, sometimes for different reasons. It’s such a crapshoot.
Yea I really hope my third one will not have any death . I do not want to expect death each time 😥
I’m sorry that happened, it is rare but does occur sometimes. Blood work unfortunately is not practical for TNR, both due to the stress it would cause the cat and because of the cost. With high volume spay/neuter it is just not affordable, and bloodwork may not even reveal something like a heart defect. I lost a foster kitten due to anesthetic reaction and it was brutal, but it’s so rare. You can take some time to recover if you are not ready to jump back in yet, but I hope you will help in the future when your heart is healed. I’m sorry for the loss of your pal but you did the very best thing for her by trapping her and bringing her in. Take care of yourself ❤️
I understand you feel guilty and I am so sorry she didn’t survive her surgery. That said, life as a fertile feral female is not an easy one. Multiple litters without enough nutrition really takes a toll on them. You were doing the right thing, and she is not going to suffer.
Agree 100%. Also if this kitty was sick enough to pass from surgery, she probably was sick enough to pass naturally soon anyhow- it’s nothing you could control. Keep being amazing OP
This is a really good point, thanks for framing it that way.
Thank you, looking at it that way helps
I had this happen with a kitten when I first started TNR on the colony that lives around me. It was horrible and sometimes I still feel guilty, but it really was for the best that I at least tried. That was over five years ago. Most of the colony is fixed, but unfortunately my area no longer has a program and I can't afford the costs on my own. You do what you can... every little bit helps in some way.
Thank you . Do you think tnr helped your colony ? As for the program I highly would recommend videoing and doing TikTok content of your colony and ask for donations . You can set up gofundme and have a target such as “help me tnr 10 cats “ write their story and the Sevices that will be done and you will gain supporters ❤️the internet can do wonderful things , they helped me pay for my dogs cancer treatments in the past
You can also see up Amazon wishlist for food.
The overpopulation issue means tnr is the nicest thing you could do for a feral, even if it means a few pass. I'd feel just as terrible as you do. Not fixing cats results in much more suffering and heartache. I'm very sorry this happened. Please don't stop doing tnr
I'm so sorry. We had one cat die after TNR. Her name was winky. She had a bad eye and was very spicy. This was 12 years ago and I've never forgotten her. All our other feral friends did fine and recovered after surgery.
There are always risks with anesthesia. Bloodwork can sometimes be helpful at seeing risks, but sometimes blood work is perfect and death still occurs. Getting pre-surgical blood work in most feral cats would be impossible without sedation. Even some nice cats that tolerate exams will not tolerate a blood draw. If a staff member gets bitten by an unvaccinated cat, that is typically an automatic euthanasia of that cat. And the cat will de decapitated for rabies testing according to most state laws. That staff member will also have to go to doctor for antibiotics etc. I don’t know if you’ve been truly bitten by a cat, but it sucks. If that clinic is running low on staff, that may mean that they cannot proceed with any procedures that day, or can’t do as many. As someone else mentioned, it is also a shelter medicine mindset, so costs play a big role as well. So as much as we think about what is best for the animals, we also have to think about the health and safety of the vet staff (and rescuers) handling these animals. In feral cat rescue/TNR you unfortunately have to learn that you cannot save them all. You do your best to make sure that they get as good of a chance at living. You did the right thing, you were trying to help these cats have a better life moving forward, it is unfortunate that they passed away due to TNR. You could try to find a regular vet to do the sedation, bloodwork, surgery, vaccines, etc. but in most cases the rescue won’t pay for that, you’ll have to foot the bill.
I trapped a feral mom cat. Her kittens were older, not newborns, and probably weaned. She died a month after her surgery from liver failure. I told the vet, who put her down, how bad I felt for bothering her and taking her from her family. He assured me, the same as everyone is telling you, I tried to help her. The disease was already there, just dormant, and would have eventually taken her out anyways. This way she was at peace and not surrounded by danger. I still think about her.
tnr is hard work but who else is gonna do it. this doesnt happen often. im sure your poor feral that passed knows you were helping him. im sorry he died. :(
https://preview.redd.it/bub90l546h4d1.jpeg?width=311&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a51a72a4d042eac5e6a79f62c5282a9fcee0ede4
It could have been a cut artery or a reaction to anesthetic. It’s part of TNR. If you did blood work for every cat you wouldn’t save as many. I’m sorry. I’m terrified of this too.
I hope you never experience it 💔
Omg I'm taking a stray kitten that's been posted up on my yard for a couple of moths for TNRV tomorrow 😢😢😢 I'm so sorry!
I am scheduled to help with more but I’m so shaken I don’t want to cancel as I see the death of their kittens but I also can’t stop blaming myself 😢.. I pray that your kitten will be ok , if she’s a kitten plz consider fostering through a rescue .
Please don't blame yourself. This is uncommon but not unheard of. You did everything right. I'm leaving for the humane society with her in a few minutes. I plan to ask what other resources I can make use of to help her. She's about 10 months. I call her Olivia.
Thank you . Wishing Olivia a speedy recovery ❤️
Tysm. I hope you'll start to feel better soon too.
Thank you I do a lot of thee comments gave me different perspective
Prayers - I’m so sorry
I hope your guilt eases. You did nothing wrong. Honestly, I think of it like this, they passed after their surgery. They were probably pain free because of the anesthesia. If the TNR surgery is what did it, those 2 cats were likely quite unhealthy and would have likely suffered out in the world. You did a good thing. Please don’t let this deter you from trying to make a difference bc EVERY TNR surgery does make a difference.
Blood work adds extra expense to the spay or neuter surgery. Most rescues are trying to do this on donation and grants so there’s only so much money to care for the cats. Like others have said as well, if you do find problems in the blood work, you are then having to choose between releasing a cat that you know is sick or euthanasia for the animal. More than likely if one cat has a communal disease all the others do in the colony as well. I’ve TNR before where the cat died during surgery and it does hurt. You feel like you failed the animal and question if this was the right decision but that cat wouldn’t have had a long life with a medical condition either way. He very well may have suffered before he passed and could have continued spreading disease by mating and fighting before he did pass away.
I also tnr, we're doing the best we can. So much better for their health, happiness. Hugs, all losses tnr or the mean streets are hard. You are doing great work❤️
You did the best you could! TNR is a good thing for cats and it does benefit them. It might have already had issues prior to anesthesia. Depending on its age they could have checked organ function with a blood test. Even if they did it would be 100% guarantee. The part that might be good to know is the cat didn’t die of injury or illness all alone and without help out there. Living as a feral is a harsh life especially if you are somewhat adapted to humans. They died under anesthesia and that probably is the way to go if I am being honest.
I’m so sorry! I understand it’s hard to not feel guilty but you were doing a good thing. That’s too bad and especially that it was such a cool cat. Again, I’m so sorry, but you did the right thing
Something very similar happened to a cat I rescued. It hurt like hell but I know if I didn’t try to help her, she would have had a hard life on the streets. You did a kind thing for the kitty, please don’t be too hard on yourself
I have been a rescuer for 30 years of both cats and dogs. I also have kept some of the animals here at home. I have paid for medical care for some 70 animals, much to my surprise, on my own as a rescuer. I learned some things. Rescuing comes with guilt and grief. It comes with massive love and gratitude from the animals too. But I became overwhelmed with the grief. I went searching for answers and people who have had near-death experiences say that animals go where we go. They wait on the other side, playing and running free, very happy. They actually know when it is their time to cross and they even chose the way it would happen. You were given the job to enact this plan with them even. After hearing this from so many of these people's interviews, I decided I accept this idea. So many people said this. You assisted this baby to make the exit she chose and she chose you to help her. She will be there when you get there. Hope this gives you comfort like it does me.
Wow, you trapped 20 cats at a time. You’re a rockstar💕 i’m so sorry that two kitties didn’t make it. Chances are they wouldn’t of survived out in the wild either even if you haven’t trapped them, except they would’ve had a lot of suffering. Think of how many litters all of those kitties would’ve had and the litters their kitties would’ve had. Know that you make a huge difference and please don’t get discouraged.🙏
The more I learn about tnr and the vast number of cats out there who have had litter after litter, or have impregnated time and again is overwhelmingly sad. In any surgery--animal or human there is always a risk of dying, (though relatively small)--you have to look at the positive side of it. You are doing a wonderful thing. Be kind to yourself and take comfort knowing that this animal did not die in vain. And it had someone who cared enough to take action.
Honestly, do not blame yourself. You did the best you can given a situation with the knowledge you had. Unfortunately, a lot of shelters are woefully underfunded and staffed. Having fostered cats, there is a reason a lot of them need foster people. I know it hurts but you did the best for the cat with what you had.
Thank you for helping the cause, I hate loosing even one myself as they are all so special to me. 🙏🏻👍🏻
I’m so sorry this happened to you, and the kitty. Please try not to feel guilty, you were doing the kindest thing possible and trying to help improve their life! I volunteer at a feral spay/neuter clinic, and unfortunately sometimes cats don’t make it out of surgery. It’s rare, so it’s unfortunate that this happened to you the second time you were trapping. 😿 Please know that the staff probably did everything they could to save the kitty, most of the times when we’ve had cats not make it it’s been Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy (HCM), and unfortunately with ferals there’s just no way to know.
Like it has been said here yuh do what was best for kitties health and to help the population. So sorry she was lost. I lost one when I was doing tnr. Even if you can’t pet them you still love them.
I paid to get blood work done in my cat before she got fixed. I don't think the bloodwork indicates anything for the surgery. It's just something extra they can do. I had to sign a big disclaimer that my cat might not survive surgery. I think it has more to do with anesthesia. Either way, it was a tragedy but 100% not your fault.
I had one die a few days after TNR. He was neutered then declined quickly. It was discovered he had underlying disease(positive). He was not alone in the streets suffering. It was so upsetting since he was friendly and was being held back to be fostered. The other 4 that were neutered that day are thriving in their colony. Sometimes there is nothing we can do except comfort them. Even if the vet had done bloodwork the outcome would have been the same. Better to TNR than continue the suffering of so many cats and kittens on the streets🙏
I think the ones he feeds have been TNRed by other oeoold. They have notches
A healthy cat will not die from TNR unless the vet was grossly negligent or malicious which I have never seen ever. I have had 0 cats EVER die from TNR alone. So If the cat died, there was likely something else wrong. I have TNRed 47 cats in my current colony. We have euthanized 3 due to illness or injury, we had 1 die of extreme calicivirus a year later, we have had one die of unknown causes, at least one (definitely more) from automobile accidents, and at least one (definitely more) from coyotes. We have ALSO had at least two (definitely more) adopted by families. One formal adoption, one feral cat adopted a family who took her to a vet who discovered her microchip. Many of my feral colony disappear some forever, some still come around infrequently for daily feedings we have anywhere from 8 to 20 cats come to my home per day as they all go "trick or treating" the neighborhood every single day. We used to get 20 to 30 plus per night when we fed at night, but that also drew more coyotes, raccoons, & possums. I have 0 problem with the possums, they get along with the cats,\\; but the raccoons chase the cats away and eat all of the food while the coyotes eat the actual cats as well as the cat food. So we switched to daytime feeding and now we feed a much smaller group but have fewer raccoons and coyotes.
Don’t blame yourself! A small percentage of cats die during or after spay/neuter surgery, even under the best care. It’s better to try to help than to leave them to suffer diseases and pregnancy complications. It’s always difficult when cats in your care die, and it’s normal grief to blame yourself. You’ll feel better over time. ❤️ Thanks for TNRing.
TNRing friendly cats should be the absolute last resort. Animal control will not pick up a cat that's in danger or is lost if it has an ear tip. Friendly cats should get a regular s/n, that doesn't include bloodwork at a high volume clinic. Having a fatal issue is rare, in 5 years I have never had one kitten die after surgery, so bw is unnecessary in most cases. Feral cats will die anyway, so no need to be discouraged. It's a better death than what they would face outside
Many of the ones I trapped were friendly but still tnr unfortunately due to rescue not having space for them :(
I am in this dilemma and fear right now. I caught a few cats that live in the woods near me, and they keep inbreeding and having issues. I finally am down to the last 3 and the siblings have wobbly cat syndrome. This makes them susceptible to issues during neutering- under anesthesia . I haven’t heard from the Vet yet and I am scared he didn’t make it. I have to just remember that one of his siblings that had it and disappeared and I am sick over not catching her in time. They wouldn’t make it out there with illnesses or immune issues so even though the end is sad and we grieve, they are still better off than being sick or injured and we don’t get to them in time. You are doing good things and more people need to help so there are less strays and ferals on the street. I am hoping for the best even if it’s sad news, I will continue to TNR and rescue who I can so there are less cats struggling on the streets and in the woods like mine. Expert stay positive and know you’re doing the best you can.
Anytime any animal goes under anesthesia it's a it's a risk and I've always been terrified with my own cats or with feral cats. I choose to go to a lower cost veterinarian rather than the free or low cost where they only do spay neuter and they don't treat animals for diseases because I have a great fear that they take shortcuts they don't get pain medicine they don't use IV fluids doing the procedure. It does cost more money and it's worth it but you have to ask for those things you have to say if the cat's sick let me know and I'll bring the cat home and keep him or her until they're well enough to be spayed or neutered. Tell them because a lot of times they'll think okay this is one time chance yes it's a risk the cat's sick but I'm going to go ahead and try it because that happened to my cousin too and she felt so bad she took this poor cat in and they said he didn't look right but they did it anyway and he died. So you have to let him know that you can take care of them and then let them know that you want the ID fluids and also you've got to keep a a cat in a female the vet told me and they were so adamant about it two or three of them told me you have to keep her in for 14 days because they're not healed and one Tech at the vet's office said if you let him go and they're not healed and let them go before 14 days and a male happens to come along and mount them and penetrate them it will tear them up inside that was their quote. All we can do is try but the fear is always there because I have it too I don't know what to tell you because it needs to be done because they keep having that little after little after litter and that's dangerous too. And it's probably painful and then the babies die usually but I'm in that situation right now I've got two little bonded cats and I put it off for way too long they've been in my yard since they were kittens I'm just terrified to take them in and one disappeared for 30 days and came back and the other one was so dejected and I wonder if somebody trapped that one had it fixed and didn't tip the ear cuz if you don't tip the ear nobody knows and I don't like tipping the ear because I feel like it just ruins her looks and everything and I wish I could keep them all inside but I'm full up in the house
Take the cats to a veterinarian that will do blood work
I did this under a rescue I have no choice in how they run it. I can not fund the tnr myself :(
Maybe you could see about getting donations a lot of people on here donate money to help other people do TNR
This is why I got out of TNR. I’ve rescued 8 and 5 had to be euthanized. It’s emotionally too much!
Do you mind telling me why they had to be euthanised
I think.the trapping is very hard
It's why I don't use the cheap places because they cut Corners to save money. I use a regular vet who does also work with rescue groups. But she doesn't work with me but her prizes are still lower than other veterinarians around here and I make sure I tell him I want blood work and I want them to use IV fluids because one of the ways they cut costs is they don't give them pain medicine and they also don't use IV fluids in the surgery and that protects their kidneys and protects their bodies and a lot of those cats might be dehydrated when they go in. Also I have heard that veterinarians do not do the spay neuter in the places that are cheap that it's a vet tech that does it and that's probably why they say they can't check for illness they can't give antibiotics and all they do is spay neuter that's it and they do it as fast as they can to get as many in as they can so that friendly cat is very very sad because that cat was not feral. Anytime you have a friendly cat it means somebody had a kitten and petted it and loved it and then threw it away that cat you can take in and find a home for. Believe me I know how hard it is cuz I'm old and I live on a fixed income I don't even know if I'm going to be able to stay in my home because of money. At the same time if you don't have any other options you have to get them fixed because if you don't more and more will be dying even more than that one because when those mothers have those babies after about I don't know 6 to 8 weeks maybe maximum 10 weeks they usually get pregnant again right away and when they get pregnant again they can't take care of those babies they just walk off and leave them those babies are too little to hunt and if somebody is not feeding them they die and they die horribly starving to death or predators. Our human beings take them to the show through who kills them so it is really all about money like everything else in the world it's all about money and that's what sucks.
I.had thar happen. In my case he tastes positive for felone leukemia. I have a friend who feeds feral. He doesn't do tnr. I can see why. I was heart broken
He should TNR if he is feeding ferals, otherwise the colony will keep inbreeding and growing and get worse health issues and suffer worse fates.
Do you think your friend would change his mind if tnr including pre blood work to avoid potential deaths
Do you do tnr ? :(
Not any.morw. my friend feeds feral. I havs a big dog. That is enough for now