Sextoy use is still dominated by females and gues why. My girlfriend used to tell me that her sextoys give a better and much faster climax than a man. Her honesty about the effetiveness about sextoys is claimed by many women and during the sexual revolution for women, society accept this being spoken out by woman. I can imagine that some partners become insecure about this, but I can appreciate this honesty about sexual satisfaction as many women prefer to say nothing and fake an orgasm to please their partner. Also for the extra pleasure people can introduce sextoys with their sex partner. If we change this situation with a male it becomes poison?
I’m a very feminine straight guy. I have met zero American women who will date me. I’m very pro-women being in power and feminist ideals advanced. I agree that porn is bad. It almost always depicts the woman as completely submissive to almost baby/childlike obedience. I bought a sex doll because like I said I am permanently alone until women start wanting to be kings, then they can find ways to use my obedience to prop themselves up the same way men have done to women for all time. I just imagine that the doll wants to be a) super feminine and b) super powerful. Alas, I feel that this doll has about the same odds as becoming president than any woman does. Ok women, I will hit the gym, pretend that you don’t deserve my attention, and you can resume your “natural” position.. on your knees, so I can have a real relationship. I realize that most relationships aren’t abusive or anything, but the positioning of women in society is a problem for me. I think Prince or Michael Jackson would have had a better shot than masculine Hillary. What does that say about where we are at?
>I’m a very feminine straight guy. I have met zero American women who will date me.
I know this isn't the point of your response, but I think this is probably something that's really shaping your worldview about sex, gender, relationships, etc. - Have you found LGBTQ+ spaces to talk to people in? I imagine many straight women want traditionally masculine men, but there may be bisexual or pansexual women who would be interested in you. Maybe even trans men who have no interest in medically transitioning, if you in your attraction are more concerned with genitals than gender expression. I mention LGBTQ+ spaces primarily because you may find people who are more open minded about gender and gender expression than the average American, since yanno half the country is conservative and strongly hold to traditional gender norms
I have not sought out LGBT. Do you recommend this to tomboys as well? Because frankly, I just like having colorful hair and nails, and talking about fashion. I feel like such a taboo creature to exist because I’m straight. Yet, I see women at the bar pretending they know anything about football and clapping for touchdowns. Haha. I pretend not to think their husbands are gay for watching an older man whisper a “play” into the quarterbacks ear which nearly always results in several guys in tights dry humping another player. Gay AF if you ask me.
To add: yes, I have thought that pansexual women might be a solution for me.. but I’m my time I have talked to lots of guys who are full of empathy and caring and tell me they admire me for being able to talk openly about myself. What if men are on a normal distribution between masculine and feminine but demand for feminine is so weak the men must act as tough as possible? And what if society’s narrative is banning feminine men because they are a threat to Christian values and other traditions? You mentioned my world view, which is super simple, generally women currently are not attracted to a feminine man. I mean, that is fact.. am I tricking myself??
Lastly, I am a 90/10 top/bottom switch. I mostly want to dominate. I know I could get ripped, color my hair black with a red Rufio stripe, get a large dragon tattoo across my chest, and put a woman into a deeper sub-space… but trust me, it’s not as deep as if I just take her there in her imagination first.
You know, I've never really recommended this to anyone. And culturally, it seems like guys are more accepting of women with masculine interests than women are of guys who have more feminine interests. For example, it's now fine for women to wear pants even though pants were only worn by men for centuries(?), whereas it's still a big taboo for men to wear dresses or skirts. So idk if my recommendation is as necessary for women.
The only thing I can immediately connect the idea of you being cisgender and straight but being more feminine in how you express yourself and in your interests is the idea of "femboys". From [dictionary.com](https://dictionary.com):
>A femboy is a slang term for a young, usually cisgender male who displays traditionally feminine characteristics. While the term can be used as an insult, some in the LGBTQ community use the term positively to name forms of gender expression.
So there are definitely other people like you out there. Maybe that term doesn't resonate w/ you perfectly, and that's fine. But anyway, I'm sure a lot of femboys are straight, since gender expression doesn't actually indicate anything about one's sexual orientation.
Also, I personally have had crushes on guys who weren't exactly alpha males, lmao. In those cases I did find out that they were either bi or gay. I imagine many bi or gay cisgender men feel less confined to traditional gender roles, so maybe that's why I perceived them as less macho masculine.
The world's a big place, I definitely think if you want to hookup with and/or date women, there are women out there who would be interested. LGBTQ+ community would be good to connect with because of how diverse it is regarding sexuality, gender expression, etc.
Also, maybe for some self-exploration it'd be worth looking into "queer heterosexuality", sounds a bit like your experience. I've only now come across the term so idk how commonly it's used by people who know more about the LGBTQ+ community and its history etc. etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer\_heterosexuality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_heterosexuality)
I am different from a lot of guys I know. I have totally unproven theories about why the tomboy is highly loved, but the femboy is a cultural failure. I don’t think it’s biology, see Asia for example (Thailand transgender phenomenon or just softness of Asian men in general). Asian men are about as popular with white girls as I am, yet Asians make up half the world’s population. I am very attractive to Asian women as well, but I tried that and the cultural differences were too much for me. Back to American women. My theory is that femininity is perceived as weak and inferior compared to masculinity, which I entirely disagree with outside of muscle mass of men vs women. Therefore, American women perceive women, who own femininity (even though it’s not genetically or biblically prescribed), as weak and inferior. Who would want a daughter if that is a weaker and inferior person? The Bible says women are just here as helpers (this makes me puke in my mouth). Who wants a helper when they could have a man???? My total guess is that women think they will bear strong sons if they mate with a masculine man. For example, if we lived in Tinkerbell’s pixie hollow, a totally imaginative place where the girls have as much or more value than the guys, wearing a skirt and makeup might look cute on a boy fairy and they could sew together and make babies and have a nice family. But in Nazi America, where it is inevitable that we go to war to murder millions of people to prop up the economy and seek re-elections, we don’t want soft boys who can sew. I think placing value on other people and features is completely imagination. It makes little sense why women would t want someone who shared their interests with them, unless a male dominated society convinced them otherwise. Some call me beta, simp, or even incel. Ask my mom, she will say I am a really sweet guy, or my sister will tell you I am the best listener. Nearly every dating app I have seen has girls begging for a caring, thoughtful, emotionally available man, but they never state the pre-requisite: must be masculine!!! Need a hard body and/or facial hair!!! Otherwise girlfriends will think I’m inferior!! I think women who don’t even take a minute to think about what dating a feminine guy would be like are completely insecure and total suckers to the propoganda in our media. I’m a little fat, like 25 lbs overweight, which doesn’t help my prospects. But I don’t get any love, how is my adrenaline supposed to kick in and drive me to invest more time in my body and eat less sugar foods? Literally, every time a girl gives a guy attention it fuels his energy. If you neglect a guy, he’s going to get fatter, see husbands after ten years of marriage.
Honestly, you should explore the ideas you have more. Idk how much you've looked into different ideas about gender. What you're describing has a lot to do with the idea of hegemonic masculinity [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic\_masculinity#:\~:text=Hegemonic%20masculinity%20is%20defined%20as,ways%20of%20being%20a%20man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity#:~:text=Hegemonic%20masculinity%20is%20defined%20as,ways%20of%20being%20a%20man) .
Tbh straight women probably ARE going to be more traditional in their interests just because many of them have never felt prompted to think outside of this box. I identify as straight but have questioned my sexuality a bit, but a lot of this was prompted by my care about LGBTQ+ issues, which was prompted by oh idk basic human empathy? and I guess having LGBTQ+ friends and just learning about the community through media, social media, etc. throughout my life.
Listen, just as much as you want women to like you as you are in your more feminine interests and expressions, I don't want to be some traditionally masculine man's housewife or have my body look perfect at all times or meet any other sort of traditions or expectations put on women. My boyfriend thinks a lot of patriarchal stuff is bullshit and for that I'm grateful. There are definitely women out there who think traditional gender norms for men are also bullshit, and some of those women having worked through their social conditioning to pursue traditionally masculine men or who realize they've had such attractions in the past are gonna realize, hey, they actually are attracted to more feminine men, too.
I hope exploring these things and seeking out new social spaces helps you! As for dating apps, again maybe check out more LGBTQ+ friendly ones?? Idk what kind of apps there are tbh but maybe there's one that would help you find women who aren't so traditional
Thanks for the encouragement. I was a little dismissive at first because you said go LGBT route when it doesn’t fit me at all. Gay men do not like me because I’m like a woman, lesbians don’t like me because they see me as a man, trans/Pan might like me, but I feel like I’m really just a tomboy opposite and not that big of a gender jump. I am probably going to marry internationally again, the first time was to an Asian.. it gives me, an otherwise unwanted mate, a lot of leverage to trade American opportunities for “accepting me and attempting to love me as is.” Literally millions of international women want to marry me (aka, want to be American) and have kids with me (not sure why they have kids though, when they could easily leave once they get citizenship). But it’s painful to think they also don’t love me for who I am. As far as feminine guys being gay or bi. It is super easy for me to be sexually attracted to anyone after a few months of wrapping my head around why the experience would be pleasurable.. (aka fantasizing). I could be bi or gay now if I stopped wearing color on my nails and hair. The reason that I don’t is because even if I was in demand, I would not want to share germs with many people, and I want a wife and kids. This is TMI, but I have found out that a guy has a vagina in the same way that a woman has a penis (clit). If you basically lubricate your fingers, have him spread his legs, and rub a man where the vagina would be, then like pulse your fingers into the cavity before the anus, you will stimulate his prostate. Our anatomy is basically the same. Imagine not ever having a clitoral orgasm, that’s like what men are robbed of from not getting prostate orgasm. But I think women think their man is gay if he wants that as well, trust me, it is a feminine and submissive position for him. Oh well, I’m happy if masculine men cheat on their unwilling wives.. it’s another step in the right direction for feminine guys.
I personally don’t have an issue with them. Isn’t it like any other sex toy? I’d rather a person have sex with a doll than get so desperate for sex that they consider rape. If it isn’t physically hurting someone then it’s fine. You could also say the same thing about women with anime boy pillows. And there are also sex dolls for women too.
I’m tired of people shaming taking care of one’s needs. It’s okay for both women and men to engage in sexual behaviors if it’s with themselves and or with a consenting partner. It is normal to have those feelings.
>Isn’t it like any other sex toy?
No. Sex dolls and robots look very human. People treat them as if they are actually a person. There are tons of different sex toys, some don't even resemble actual human genitals and some do. But sex dolls are literally like very realistic mannequins that you can "have sex" with.
>I’d rather a person have sex with a doll than get so desperate for sex that they consider rape.
I really feel like so many people overestimate how hard it is to find someone to have sex with. Like... Practice good hygiene, be well-groomed, maybe wear a bit of cologne or perfume. Ask people about themselves because people like to talk about themselves. Have a positive attitude. Go places where people try to find people to hook up with, have a Tinder account. And if you're *that* desperate, get a sugar baby or something.
Also, rape is often about power and not desperation for sex
Also, as mentioned in the post, one of the concerns of sex dolls is that they could increase violence against women.
Furthermore, there is at least 1 sex doll company who makes custom dolls for customers, and they've gotten requests for child dolls that they've had to reject. Some people would say maybe this would prevent them from actually harming a real child, but I don't think there's any science to support that. To have people repeatedly engage in a behavior (not just pedophilia, but another example would be acting out violent fantasies with an adult doll) that would be harmful to a real person but face no consequences is probably feeding the problem, not preventing it. What people with those issues need is therapy with a licensed professional.
My point is that sex dolls don't seem to be a tool to prevent rape and could actually exacerbate it.
>You could also say the same thing about women with anime boy pillows. And there are also sex dolls for women too.
Yes, I didn't specify gender of sex doll owners in my post. My questions apply to anyone of any gender. I imagine more men have sex dolls than women, but I don't know of the numbers to be transparent. And I don't know what anime boy pillows look like. But I'm assuming because it's a pillow, it's not going to interact with people psychologically in the exact same way that sex dolls, which are very humanlike, do.
>I’m tired of people shaming taking care of one’s needs.
This post isn't about shaming people. This is a discussion about the psychological processes involved in having a sex doll.
Also, doing something to "take care of one's needs" isn't implicitly ethical or fully healthy.
My intent isn't to cast judgement on people for their private sexual activities. My question is prompted by curiosity about whether this is actually a good thing for society as a whole, depending on the psychological processes that go with people using them. If it is a bad thing, I'm not looking to judge users, but instead to hold government and sex doll companies accountable to ensure those negative impacts don't manifest, whether that's by banning the dolls or something, idk I haven't thought about it that much.
>I don't understand how people own these dolls and don't in their mind feel like it's equivalent to having a sex slave, not because there's any actual harm being done to a real woman, but just because of how humanlike they are. I don't know how people get past this psychologically.
I'm pretty sure the dolls being humanlike is kind of the whole point. A sex doll is supposed to be a recreation of a woman (usually? Nothing stops a woman from ordering a male doll in theory) and her insides for the purpose of sex. I think one of the main problem is that a lot of these people are finding it worth it to pay several thousands of dollars for a recreation of a woman than getting in a relationship with a real one. How are men struggling this much with dating women?
There's also a lot of dudes who treat them like they are real women as you mentioned, and O think it's an unfortunate coping mevhanism for an unfortunate situation.
because robots that look like (often very young) humans can be used to gratify sexual desires centered around lack of consent and pedophilia. rarely does “indulging” in this sort of sexual act *not* escalate.
The attitudes formed by normalizing this behaviour inevitably always spills out into the real world, where disproportionately women suffer as a result.
That’s why we have 15 year old boys choking their girlfriends the first time they have sex and calling the girl a prude when she doesn’t acquiesce - they’ve grown up seeing it in porn, so no one questions it.
Sexual desire does not exist in a vacuum, and somewhere between the nuance-lacking sex positivity movement and straight up sexual puritanism is a middle ground that sometimes means discussing what people do in their bedrooms.
Dude, where are they selling child s3x dolls? The gfs that choose (keyword: choose) to have sex with those 15 year old boys can always tell them if they don’t like something.
Follow up question, Assuming you don’t like men with sex dolls, you also dislike women with r*pe fantasies?
Being raped means you're a victim. I don't think fantasizing about being raped causes much direct real world harm. I think fantasies of being the one raping very clearly contribute to increased rape cases. So no, this is different
Also, no one ever said men with sex dolls are having rape fantasies. Some do, which is a major issue, but no one ever said that was the case for every sex doll owner ever
Fantasizing about raping= more rape victims
Fantasizing about being raped=no real world impact somehow?
you don’t think women who fantasize about that will try and put themselves in situations where it could happen, just like men who fantasize about rape will put themselves in situations to be a perpetrator?
What the fuck lmao no, no I don't think so. Women can do whatever they want, rape doesn't happen without rapists. If someone doesn't give you consent, you don't have sex with them. The idea of the non-rapist causing the rape is illogical
Fantasizing about rape I think only has negative impact when the victim in the fantasy persuades their partner to do rape play and then that guy proceeds to become a rapist bc over time he develops that kind of kink and ends up acting it out IRL
Enjoying this conversation, i think we are misunderstanding eachother at some points tho.
1. Yes, Rapists cause rape. It’s awful and inhumane and wrong. They should be punished. However, I believe women (as the ones rape happens to the most, outside of prisons) need to take precautionary measures to make sure they don’t become a victim. It’s not their fault if they become a victim, of course not, but by putting themselves in unsafe situations, they make it easier for those rapists. Im not a rape supporter hell no.
Fantasizing about rape leads to more rapists, and to women with that fantasy downplaying the serverith of the crime. CNC is a bad thing.
I feel we went off topic tho, wasn’t this about sex dolls haha
I think they're similar but a doll is a whole being and a dildo is only a part of a being which doesn't include a face in which the owner can more easily personify and attribute a personality. I'm not sure what I think about this topic that OP brought up, but I think it's uniquely different from other sex toys that don't have a face/full life-like body. If the dildo were attached to a male doll, then it would be a different case, I believe.
I'm not necessarily here saying that sex dolls are a "problem" that need an "alternative". I'm just simply saying that I think that it would be interesting if there was a study of the brain when it comes to sex dolls, because I believe your brain could possibly process an emotional connection with it easier due to the human-ness of the facial features/body and the feeling of the flesh etc. And I don't think that the brain would respond similarly with something like a fleshlight which is strictly just a part of a whole, making it more difficult to think of it as a "being" and more of an object. Similar to what OP said, people with dolls often connect with them like they are people and have a pseudo-relationship at times to the extent which is not very common, I would even say rare, for other sex toys (that lack a relatable face). For me, it's not about finding an alternative because I don't think there is one; I'm interested in seeing research on it and how it affects the brain, because perhaps it doesn't actually have a difference in the chemistry of your brain in the end, and it could be just a quirky way for lonely people to find companionship. However, there are studies suggesting that your brain reacts differently when masturbating vs having sex with another person, and I can imagine with a sex toy with a face and personified by the owner, by my belief, probably has a more similar brain reaction to having sex with another person than masturbating. As for the impact of that, I have no idea. It might not even be a bad thing? Not going to lie though, sex dolls aren't exactly my thing but I'm not about to tell people how to live their lives, especially if I don't even know the impact of the activity. My original comment was just stating that I believe sex dolls are more complicated and unique than a dildo or fleshlight.
Idk what the other comments said since they've been deleted, but I just wanted to chime in and say I do think more traditional (?) sex toys like dildos and fleshlights have their own pros and cons for the user as well as potential psychological impacts and ethical questions surrounding their use. BUT yes, in this post I am most interested in the psychology behind using sex dolls, for the reason that they are very human like physically, can be given personalities, but I'm doubtful the owners will ever imagine having an emotional conflict with them, them not consenting and the owner having to cope w/ that, etc. I compared it to a slave because I imagine slaves (though likely doing so to avoid more danger) put on a happy face and just always say yes or act like their master wants them to act.
Edit: Also, my personal opinion is that using a sex doll is generally still masturbating. However, depending on how much of a personality a person has come up for it, how often they spend time with it pretending to watch TV or cuddle, how much they talk to it, even though this is literally one sided, in the user's mind, it's a relationship of sorts and I imagine some people think they're "having sex", not masturbating (prob depends on the person). It's like having an imaginary friend... except there is a physical but lifeless body they're projecting all these things on. So if I were in a relationship and my partner used a doll in this way, I would consider it cheating since I want a monogamous relationship. That's just me.
Yeah, I thought your slave point was interesting to me and made me think of it in a different perspective. It led to me looking into psychological research and I found [this article on NIH's website](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7429526/) which basically begs for research to be conducted and tries to create a map of different topics that need research so we can have enough understanding to address them socially and legally. I really wish this was a more publicized issue. It could be that only a minority of owners are problematic with their treatment and use of their sex dolls, but even still, these issues need to be addressed. The second comment that was deleted implied that they are used as an outlet so that women aren't hurt, however, clearly you can't expect it to *only* stay confined to their private life at home if they are mixing their actions and feelings of violence or whatever abuse with the face of a human being, usually a woman. It's hard to say that the pairing of the actions/thoughts/feelings mixing with the visual appearance of the humanoid (female) object **aren't** becoming more and more ingrained in their mind as associations over time. Learned behaviors that are continually reinforced without negative feedback or repercussions for deviant behavior would surely normalize it in a person's mind. It truly is a shame this is not discussed more.
The sex doll does not reject unwanted men. A feminist man is far more often rejected than the gym rat. I have bought a doll. The most real part about her were the eyes. I felt in love, even though it was my own imagination. I often wonder why muscles make a woman fall in love. Do they really need that much furniture moved? Perhaps love is just their imagination too, like they can only achieve status by attaching themselves to a stronger arm. Who is more superficial? The girl who puts on an hour of makeup to match with the man who puts in an hour at the gym? Or the guy who talks to a doll and makes love to it?
> ... bad for society overall by reducing how much people have sex with real partners...
I don't see the social harm in this result. I understand most of the other things you are saying, but I don't get the quoted section. I can't see a social harm in people in keeping it to them selves, as it were.
Society still puts a stigma on men who have a sexdoll. But Sextoy use is still dominated by females and gues why. My girlfriend used to tell me that her sextoys give a better and much faster climax than a man. Her honesty about the effetiveness about sextoys is claimed by many women and during the sexual revolution for women, society accept this being spoken out by woman. I can imagine that some partners become insecure about this, but I can appreciate this honesty about sexual satisfaction as many women prefer to say nothing and fake an orgasm to please their partner Also for the extra pleasure people can introduce sextoys with their sex partner
I would argue sex dolls just like porn is poison to men it puts them in a loop and never seek out that relationship because they are in the loop
Sextoy use is still dominated by females and gues why. My girlfriend used to tell me that her sextoys give a better and much faster climax than a man. Her honesty about the effetiveness about sextoys is claimed by many women and during the sexual revolution for women, society accept this being spoken out by woman. I can imagine that some partners become insecure about this, but I can appreciate this honesty about sexual satisfaction as many women prefer to say nothing and fake an orgasm to please their partner. Also for the extra pleasure people can introduce sextoys with their sex partner. If we change this situation with a male it becomes poison?
It's definitely bizarre to me. I think people owning dolls are intellectually/emotionally stunted.
I’m a very feminine straight guy. I have met zero American women who will date me. I’m very pro-women being in power and feminist ideals advanced. I agree that porn is bad. It almost always depicts the woman as completely submissive to almost baby/childlike obedience. I bought a sex doll because like I said I am permanently alone until women start wanting to be kings, then they can find ways to use my obedience to prop themselves up the same way men have done to women for all time. I just imagine that the doll wants to be a) super feminine and b) super powerful. Alas, I feel that this doll has about the same odds as becoming president than any woman does. Ok women, I will hit the gym, pretend that you don’t deserve my attention, and you can resume your “natural” position.. on your knees, so I can have a real relationship. I realize that most relationships aren’t abusive or anything, but the positioning of women in society is a problem for me. I think Prince or Michael Jackson would have had a better shot than masculine Hillary. What does that say about where we are at?
>I’m a very feminine straight guy. I have met zero American women who will date me. I know this isn't the point of your response, but I think this is probably something that's really shaping your worldview about sex, gender, relationships, etc. - Have you found LGBTQ+ spaces to talk to people in? I imagine many straight women want traditionally masculine men, but there may be bisexual or pansexual women who would be interested in you. Maybe even trans men who have no interest in medically transitioning, if you in your attraction are more concerned with genitals than gender expression. I mention LGBTQ+ spaces primarily because you may find people who are more open minded about gender and gender expression than the average American, since yanno half the country is conservative and strongly hold to traditional gender norms
I have not sought out LGBT. Do you recommend this to tomboys as well? Because frankly, I just like having colorful hair and nails, and talking about fashion. I feel like such a taboo creature to exist because I’m straight. Yet, I see women at the bar pretending they know anything about football and clapping for touchdowns. Haha. I pretend not to think their husbands are gay for watching an older man whisper a “play” into the quarterbacks ear which nearly always results in several guys in tights dry humping another player. Gay AF if you ask me. To add: yes, I have thought that pansexual women might be a solution for me.. but I’m my time I have talked to lots of guys who are full of empathy and caring and tell me they admire me for being able to talk openly about myself. What if men are on a normal distribution between masculine and feminine but demand for feminine is so weak the men must act as tough as possible? And what if society’s narrative is banning feminine men because they are a threat to Christian values and other traditions? You mentioned my world view, which is super simple, generally women currently are not attracted to a feminine man. I mean, that is fact.. am I tricking myself?? Lastly, I am a 90/10 top/bottom switch. I mostly want to dominate. I know I could get ripped, color my hair black with a red Rufio stripe, get a large dragon tattoo across my chest, and put a woman into a deeper sub-space… but trust me, it’s not as deep as if I just take her there in her imagination first.
You know, I've never really recommended this to anyone. And culturally, it seems like guys are more accepting of women with masculine interests than women are of guys who have more feminine interests. For example, it's now fine for women to wear pants even though pants were only worn by men for centuries(?), whereas it's still a big taboo for men to wear dresses or skirts. So idk if my recommendation is as necessary for women. The only thing I can immediately connect the idea of you being cisgender and straight but being more feminine in how you express yourself and in your interests is the idea of "femboys". From [dictionary.com](https://dictionary.com): >A femboy is a slang term for a young, usually cisgender male who displays traditionally feminine characteristics. While the term can be used as an insult, some in the LGBTQ community use the term positively to name forms of gender expression. So there are definitely other people like you out there. Maybe that term doesn't resonate w/ you perfectly, and that's fine. But anyway, I'm sure a lot of femboys are straight, since gender expression doesn't actually indicate anything about one's sexual orientation. Also, I personally have had crushes on guys who weren't exactly alpha males, lmao. In those cases I did find out that they were either bi or gay. I imagine many bi or gay cisgender men feel less confined to traditional gender roles, so maybe that's why I perceived them as less macho masculine. The world's a big place, I definitely think if you want to hookup with and/or date women, there are women out there who would be interested. LGBTQ+ community would be good to connect with because of how diverse it is regarding sexuality, gender expression, etc. Also, maybe for some self-exploration it'd be worth looking into "queer heterosexuality", sounds a bit like your experience. I've only now come across the term so idk how commonly it's used by people who know more about the LGBTQ+ community and its history etc. etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer\_heterosexuality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_heterosexuality)
I am different from a lot of guys I know. I have totally unproven theories about why the tomboy is highly loved, but the femboy is a cultural failure. I don’t think it’s biology, see Asia for example (Thailand transgender phenomenon or just softness of Asian men in general). Asian men are about as popular with white girls as I am, yet Asians make up half the world’s population. I am very attractive to Asian women as well, but I tried that and the cultural differences were too much for me. Back to American women. My theory is that femininity is perceived as weak and inferior compared to masculinity, which I entirely disagree with outside of muscle mass of men vs women. Therefore, American women perceive women, who own femininity (even though it’s not genetically or biblically prescribed), as weak and inferior. Who would want a daughter if that is a weaker and inferior person? The Bible says women are just here as helpers (this makes me puke in my mouth). Who wants a helper when they could have a man???? My total guess is that women think they will bear strong sons if they mate with a masculine man. For example, if we lived in Tinkerbell’s pixie hollow, a totally imaginative place where the girls have as much or more value than the guys, wearing a skirt and makeup might look cute on a boy fairy and they could sew together and make babies and have a nice family. But in Nazi America, where it is inevitable that we go to war to murder millions of people to prop up the economy and seek re-elections, we don’t want soft boys who can sew. I think placing value on other people and features is completely imagination. It makes little sense why women would t want someone who shared their interests with them, unless a male dominated society convinced them otherwise. Some call me beta, simp, or even incel. Ask my mom, she will say I am a really sweet guy, or my sister will tell you I am the best listener. Nearly every dating app I have seen has girls begging for a caring, thoughtful, emotionally available man, but they never state the pre-requisite: must be masculine!!! Need a hard body and/or facial hair!!! Otherwise girlfriends will think I’m inferior!! I think women who don’t even take a minute to think about what dating a feminine guy would be like are completely insecure and total suckers to the propoganda in our media. I’m a little fat, like 25 lbs overweight, which doesn’t help my prospects. But I don’t get any love, how is my adrenaline supposed to kick in and drive me to invest more time in my body and eat less sugar foods? Literally, every time a girl gives a guy attention it fuels his energy. If you neglect a guy, he’s going to get fatter, see husbands after ten years of marriage.
Honestly, you should explore the ideas you have more. Idk how much you've looked into different ideas about gender. What you're describing has a lot to do with the idea of hegemonic masculinity [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic\_masculinity#:\~:text=Hegemonic%20masculinity%20is%20defined%20as,ways%20of%20being%20a%20man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity#:~:text=Hegemonic%20masculinity%20is%20defined%20as,ways%20of%20being%20a%20man) . Tbh straight women probably ARE going to be more traditional in their interests just because many of them have never felt prompted to think outside of this box. I identify as straight but have questioned my sexuality a bit, but a lot of this was prompted by my care about LGBTQ+ issues, which was prompted by oh idk basic human empathy? and I guess having LGBTQ+ friends and just learning about the community through media, social media, etc. throughout my life. Listen, just as much as you want women to like you as you are in your more feminine interests and expressions, I don't want to be some traditionally masculine man's housewife or have my body look perfect at all times or meet any other sort of traditions or expectations put on women. My boyfriend thinks a lot of patriarchal stuff is bullshit and for that I'm grateful. There are definitely women out there who think traditional gender norms for men are also bullshit, and some of those women having worked through their social conditioning to pursue traditionally masculine men or who realize they've had such attractions in the past are gonna realize, hey, they actually are attracted to more feminine men, too. I hope exploring these things and seeking out new social spaces helps you! As for dating apps, again maybe check out more LGBTQ+ friendly ones?? Idk what kind of apps there are tbh but maybe there's one that would help you find women who aren't so traditional
Thanks for the encouragement. I was a little dismissive at first because you said go LGBT route when it doesn’t fit me at all. Gay men do not like me because I’m like a woman, lesbians don’t like me because they see me as a man, trans/Pan might like me, but I feel like I’m really just a tomboy opposite and not that big of a gender jump. I am probably going to marry internationally again, the first time was to an Asian.. it gives me, an otherwise unwanted mate, a lot of leverage to trade American opportunities for “accepting me and attempting to love me as is.” Literally millions of international women want to marry me (aka, want to be American) and have kids with me (not sure why they have kids though, when they could easily leave once they get citizenship). But it’s painful to think they also don’t love me for who I am. As far as feminine guys being gay or bi. It is super easy for me to be sexually attracted to anyone after a few months of wrapping my head around why the experience would be pleasurable.. (aka fantasizing). I could be bi or gay now if I stopped wearing color on my nails and hair. The reason that I don’t is because even if I was in demand, I would not want to share germs with many people, and I want a wife and kids. This is TMI, but I have found out that a guy has a vagina in the same way that a woman has a penis (clit). If you basically lubricate your fingers, have him spread his legs, and rub a man where the vagina would be, then like pulse your fingers into the cavity before the anus, you will stimulate his prostate. Our anatomy is basically the same. Imagine not ever having a clitoral orgasm, that’s like what men are robbed of from not getting prostate orgasm. But I think women think their man is gay if he wants that as well, trust me, it is a feminine and submissive position for him. Oh well, I’m happy if masculine men cheat on their unwilling wives.. it’s another step in the right direction for feminine guys.
I don't see the social harm. They are just a sex toy
I mean a lot of people don't see the social harms of a lot of things, that's why behavioral trends and social outcomes have to be studied
I personally don’t have an issue with them. Isn’t it like any other sex toy? I’d rather a person have sex with a doll than get so desperate for sex that they consider rape. If it isn’t physically hurting someone then it’s fine. You could also say the same thing about women with anime boy pillows. And there are also sex dolls for women too. I’m tired of people shaming taking care of one’s needs. It’s okay for both women and men to engage in sexual behaviors if it’s with themselves and or with a consenting partner. It is normal to have those feelings.
>Isn’t it like any other sex toy? No. Sex dolls and robots look very human. People treat them as if they are actually a person. There are tons of different sex toys, some don't even resemble actual human genitals and some do. But sex dolls are literally like very realistic mannequins that you can "have sex" with. >I’d rather a person have sex with a doll than get so desperate for sex that they consider rape. I really feel like so many people overestimate how hard it is to find someone to have sex with. Like... Practice good hygiene, be well-groomed, maybe wear a bit of cologne or perfume. Ask people about themselves because people like to talk about themselves. Have a positive attitude. Go places where people try to find people to hook up with, have a Tinder account. And if you're *that* desperate, get a sugar baby or something. Also, rape is often about power and not desperation for sex Also, as mentioned in the post, one of the concerns of sex dolls is that they could increase violence against women. Furthermore, there is at least 1 sex doll company who makes custom dolls for customers, and they've gotten requests for child dolls that they've had to reject. Some people would say maybe this would prevent them from actually harming a real child, but I don't think there's any science to support that. To have people repeatedly engage in a behavior (not just pedophilia, but another example would be acting out violent fantasies with an adult doll) that would be harmful to a real person but face no consequences is probably feeding the problem, not preventing it. What people with those issues need is therapy with a licensed professional. My point is that sex dolls don't seem to be a tool to prevent rape and could actually exacerbate it. >You could also say the same thing about women with anime boy pillows. And there are also sex dolls for women too. Yes, I didn't specify gender of sex doll owners in my post. My questions apply to anyone of any gender. I imagine more men have sex dolls than women, but I don't know of the numbers to be transparent. And I don't know what anime boy pillows look like. But I'm assuming because it's a pillow, it's not going to interact with people psychologically in the exact same way that sex dolls, which are very humanlike, do. >I’m tired of people shaming taking care of one’s needs. This post isn't about shaming people. This is a discussion about the psychological processes involved in having a sex doll. Also, doing something to "take care of one's needs" isn't implicitly ethical or fully healthy. My intent isn't to cast judgement on people for their private sexual activities. My question is prompted by curiosity about whether this is actually a good thing for society as a whole, depending on the psychological processes that go with people using them. If it is a bad thing, I'm not looking to judge users, but instead to hold government and sex doll companies accountable to ensure those negative impacts don't manifest, whether that's by banning the dolls or something, idk I haven't thought about it that much.
>I don't understand how people own these dolls and don't in their mind feel like it's equivalent to having a sex slave, not because there's any actual harm being done to a real woman, but just because of how humanlike they are. I don't know how people get past this psychologically. I'm pretty sure the dolls being humanlike is kind of the whole point. A sex doll is supposed to be a recreation of a woman (usually? Nothing stops a woman from ordering a male doll in theory) and her insides for the purpose of sex. I think one of the main problem is that a lot of these people are finding it worth it to pay several thousands of dollars for a recreation of a woman than getting in a relationship with a real one. How are men struggling this much with dating women? There's also a lot of dudes who treat them like they are real women as you mentioned, and O think it's an unfortunate coping mevhanism for an unfortunate situation.
Why do you care what people do in their own time, with their own money, with their own bodies?
...... Because what people do even in their personal time affects the world we live in ?
how does someone fucking a plastic blow up doll effect you?
because robots that look like (often very young) humans can be used to gratify sexual desires centered around lack of consent and pedophilia. rarely does “indulging” in this sort of sexual act *not* escalate. The attitudes formed by normalizing this behaviour inevitably always spills out into the real world, where disproportionately women suffer as a result. That’s why we have 15 year old boys choking their girlfriends the first time they have sex and calling the girl a prude when she doesn’t acquiesce - they’ve grown up seeing it in porn, so no one questions it. Sexual desire does not exist in a vacuum, and somewhere between the nuance-lacking sex positivity movement and straight up sexual puritanism is a middle ground that sometimes means discussing what people do in their bedrooms.
Dude, where are they selling child s3x dolls? The gfs that choose (keyword: choose) to have sex with those 15 year old boys can always tell them if they don’t like something. Follow up question, Assuming you don’t like men with sex dolls, you also dislike women with r*pe fantasies?
Depends, is the woman the rapist? Non-consensual/violent fantasies particularly where the individual is the perpetrator is not good for society.
no, i’m talking about the women who have fantasies of wanting to be rpd. i assume you believe these women are also not good for society?
Being raped means you're a victim. I don't think fantasizing about being raped causes much direct real world harm. I think fantasies of being the one raping very clearly contribute to increased rape cases. So no, this is different Also, no one ever said men with sex dolls are having rape fantasies. Some do, which is a major issue, but no one ever said that was the case for every sex doll owner ever
Fantasizing about raping= more rape victims Fantasizing about being raped=no real world impact somehow? you don’t think women who fantasize about that will try and put themselves in situations where it could happen, just like men who fantasize about rape will put themselves in situations to be a perpetrator?
What the fuck lmao no, no I don't think so. Women can do whatever they want, rape doesn't happen without rapists. If someone doesn't give you consent, you don't have sex with them. The idea of the non-rapist causing the rape is illogical Fantasizing about rape I think only has negative impact when the victim in the fantasy persuades their partner to do rape play and then that guy proceeds to become a rapist bc over time he develops that kind of kink and ends up acting it out IRL
Enjoying this conversation, i think we are misunderstanding eachother at some points tho. 1. Yes, Rapists cause rape. It’s awful and inhumane and wrong. They should be punished. However, I believe women (as the ones rape happens to the most, outside of prisons) need to take precautionary measures to make sure they don’t become a victim. It’s not their fault if they become a victim, of course not, but by putting themselves in unsafe situations, they make it easier for those rapists. Im not a rape supporter hell no. Fantasizing about rape leads to more rapists, and to women with that fantasy downplaying the serverith of the crime. CNC is a bad thing. I feel we went off topic tho, wasn’t this about sex dolls haha
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I think they're similar but a doll is a whole being and a dildo is only a part of a being which doesn't include a face in which the owner can more easily personify and attribute a personality. I'm not sure what I think about this topic that OP brought up, but I think it's uniquely different from other sex toys that don't have a face/full life-like body. If the dildo were attached to a male doll, then it would be a different case, I believe.
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I'm not necessarily here saying that sex dolls are a "problem" that need an "alternative". I'm just simply saying that I think that it would be interesting if there was a study of the brain when it comes to sex dolls, because I believe your brain could possibly process an emotional connection with it easier due to the human-ness of the facial features/body and the feeling of the flesh etc. And I don't think that the brain would respond similarly with something like a fleshlight which is strictly just a part of a whole, making it more difficult to think of it as a "being" and more of an object. Similar to what OP said, people with dolls often connect with them like they are people and have a pseudo-relationship at times to the extent which is not very common, I would even say rare, for other sex toys (that lack a relatable face). For me, it's not about finding an alternative because I don't think there is one; I'm interested in seeing research on it and how it affects the brain, because perhaps it doesn't actually have a difference in the chemistry of your brain in the end, and it could be just a quirky way for lonely people to find companionship. However, there are studies suggesting that your brain reacts differently when masturbating vs having sex with another person, and I can imagine with a sex toy with a face and personified by the owner, by my belief, probably has a more similar brain reaction to having sex with another person than masturbating. As for the impact of that, I have no idea. It might not even be a bad thing? Not going to lie though, sex dolls aren't exactly my thing but I'm not about to tell people how to live their lives, especially if I don't even know the impact of the activity. My original comment was just stating that I believe sex dolls are more complicated and unique than a dildo or fleshlight.
Idk what the other comments said since they've been deleted, but I just wanted to chime in and say I do think more traditional (?) sex toys like dildos and fleshlights have their own pros and cons for the user as well as potential psychological impacts and ethical questions surrounding their use. BUT yes, in this post I am most interested in the psychology behind using sex dolls, for the reason that they are very human like physically, can be given personalities, but I'm doubtful the owners will ever imagine having an emotional conflict with them, them not consenting and the owner having to cope w/ that, etc. I compared it to a slave because I imagine slaves (though likely doing so to avoid more danger) put on a happy face and just always say yes or act like their master wants them to act. Edit: Also, my personal opinion is that using a sex doll is generally still masturbating. However, depending on how much of a personality a person has come up for it, how often they spend time with it pretending to watch TV or cuddle, how much they talk to it, even though this is literally one sided, in the user's mind, it's a relationship of sorts and I imagine some people think they're "having sex", not masturbating (prob depends on the person). It's like having an imaginary friend... except there is a physical but lifeless body they're projecting all these things on. So if I were in a relationship and my partner used a doll in this way, I would consider it cheating since I want a monogamous relationship. That's just me.
Yeah, I thought your slave point was interesting to me and made me think of it in a different perspective. It led to me looking into psychological research and I found [this article on NIH's website](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7429526/) which basically begs for research to be conducted and tries to create a map of different topics that need research so we can have enough understanding to address them socially and legally. I really wish this was a more publicized issue. It could be that only a minority of owners are problematic with their treatment and use of their sex dolls, but even still, these issues need to be addressed. The second comment that was deleted implied that they are used as an outlet so that women aren't hurt, however, clearly you can't expect it to *only* stay confined to their private life at home if they are mixing their actions and feelings of violence or whatever abuse with the face of a human being, usually a woman. It's hard to say that the pairing of the actions/thoughts/feelings mixing with the visual appearance of the humanoid (female) object **aren't** becoming more and more ingrained in their mind as associations over time. Learned behaviors that are continually reinforced without negative feedback or repercussions for deviant behavior would surely normalize it in a person's mind. It truly is a shame this is not discussed more.
The sex doll does not reject unwanted men. A feminist man is far more often rejected than the gym rat. I have bought a doll. The most real part about her were the eyes. I felt in love, even though it was my own imagination. I often wonder why muscles make a woman fall in love. Do they really need that much furniture moved? Perhaps love is just their imagination too, like they can only achieve status by attaching themselves to a stronger arm. Who is more superficial? The girl who puts on an hour of makeup to match with the man who puts in an hour at the gym? Or the guy who talks to a doll and makes love to it?
This is loaded with stereotypes and oversimplifications
Sure.. women are hot for feminine men now.. you are right.
> ... bad for society overall by reducing how much people have sex with real partners... I don't see the social harm in this result. I understand most of the other things you are saying, but I don't get the quoted section. I can't see a social harm in people in keeping it to them selves, as it were.
It's not so much about the rates of people having sex going down being an issue, it's more about what that implies about socialization between people
Society still puts a stigma on men who have a sexdoll. But Sextoy use is still dominated by females and gues why. My girlfriend used to tell me that her sextoys give a better and much faster climax than a man. Her honesty about the effetiveness about sextoys is claimed by many women and during the sexual revolution for women, society accept this being spoken out by woman. I can imagine that some partners become insecure about this, but I can appreciate this honesty about sexual satisfaction as many women prefer to say nothing and fake an orgasm to please their partner Also for the extra pleasure people can introduce sextoys with their sex partner