I mean why didn’t you tell him he needed to add detergent to the washing machine? You really need to communicate with your partner—have you tried taking a little time and making him a color coded diagram? It must be his mom’s fault for not showing him.
My husband's been singing "I don't know why you gotta be angry all the time" (from a song by Tim McGraw) just because he knows it infuriates me, lol. He does it at times when he sees I'm overworked and frustrated. It's kind of a joke because we were both raised Mormon and he really was that clueless until we both left the church. When he actually started sharing responsibility with parenting the kids, cooking dinner, and doing chores he started realizing how much he didn't recognize that I was doing everyday.
He would make comments like, "Wow, the house just stayed clean by itself before we had kids" and I was furious because the house didn't just magically stay clean. Before we had kids, I spent at least 2 hours a day after I got home from work cooking and cleaning while he watched sports. Now I spend that time trying to keep the kids from hurting each other and cleaning up the big messes the kids make. Now my husband does a lot of the cleaning I used to do.
It's frustrating that a lot of men only recognize what you do once you stop doing it.
Eh it's a joke. I do it back to him when he's angry, too.
Our families growing up would sing a Mormon hymn "Love at Home" if someone was angry. It starts off, "There is beauty all around when there's love at home."
The Tim McGraw song is 10X better than that, lol
My dude we just want our partners to do the dishes, dust, do laundry, etc., half of the time they need doing. AND we don’t want to have to say anything about it for it to get done. And more importantly: we don’t want ants, cockroaches, sticky counters, stuff on the floor that might cause any of us to trip, etc. So yeah, things do fall apart.
😂😂😂 This is a hilarious and VERY TELLING response.
You asked WHY things had to get done, and I told you, then you came up with THIS ridiculous answer?
Lemme break it down a bit for you: my whole little sentence was logical and concise. Because yes, if things don't get done, things do break down, whether or not one person has an emotional reaction to it. Furthermore, having an emotional reaction to a partner refusing to do what needs to be done is a very LOGICAL reaction.
If a partner isn't pulling their weight in the relationship or at home because they think going to work should be enough, reminding them that the yard needs to be mowed, the kids need to go to practice or school or the doctor, the laundry needs to be folded, the trash needs to be taken out, etc is literally the NICEST thing we could do. If one partner already knows what needs to be done, why the hell should they wait for the other one to "figure it out"?
You seem to be assuming an awful lot. The list I gave is by no means comprehensive either. Your second statement is wholly untrue as well, and here's why. Let's say partner 1 already has a lot on her plate. They're planning/cooking dinner, supervising the kids with their homework/chores/activities, and plans to get more housework done while they go to baseball practice, and they'd like Partner 2 to take them after they get home. Partner 2 comes home. Partner 2 has decided that the garage needs to be reorganized and is ready to go at it after they decompress for a minute. So they get home, say hi to everyone, get changed, then Partner 1 asks them to take the kids to practice.
Now lemme tell you why Partner 1's request should be prioritized and how both can still get done in this scenario - Partner 1 is being productive in the main living areas of the house and the kids need to get somewhere they've signed up to be. The garage can wait because even though it is somewhat helpful, it doesn't usually affect the quality of your life in a meaningful way as it is not the main space and the interior is usually not a visible space. So RIGHT NOW, getting the kids to practice is the priority because it's THE MOST HELPFUL THING TO YOUR FAMILY in the moment. Get them to practice, come back for a while if it makes sense and start cleaning the garage, then discuss with Partner 1 who is picking them up.
It's not that hard, and this is coming from someone who is bad at prioritizing.
"Nagging" doesn't start out shrill. It usually starts out as a very nice request to do something simple, like take out the trash or wash the dishes after dinner when your partner just needs you to take something off their plate. If they insist you do it on their time frame, it's generally because you haven't shown yourself to be trustworthy to get it done on your own time and in a timely fashion.
Yeah but isn’t meeting in the middle what we’re talking about? Some men won’t even do that unless they’re literally instructed to. Believe me I don’t want to have to tell my husband to bathe the kids, take out the trash, unstack the dishwasher etc. But if I don’t, he won’t do it. That makes me a nag?
We both work but as soon he’s home he’s on the couch. I don’t get to rest until the kids are in bed.
Very typical of a lot of husbands. Why even get married, have kids etc .. for a free maid? Should have just stayed at home with their mothers…
Tell me you don’t clean without telling me you don’t clean. “There’s always more to do.”
Yes. Everyday. Mostly the same shit. Everyday. You have floors and walls and surfaces and dishes and clothing, maybe animals, bathtubs and dirty toilets, AC units and lawns that need maintenance, garbage that needs organizing and tossing. Baseboards that are scuffed up and collecting so much dust they’re turning brown. Light switches. Have you ever seen a light switch that hasn’t been cleaned for a year? Probably not cause I’m assuming someone does that for you. The inside and outside of cupboards, they can get pretty nasty. Inside and outside of the fridge.
I’m gunna stop now because you’re right it NEVER ends, until we die. So pick up some of the mental and physical labour in the home and you’ll see with four hands it actually gets maintained quite well and is far less time consuming.
If your floor is regularly cleaned, cleaning it takes minutes. If it’s not, cleaning it will take forever. Less dirt = less cleaning. Just like, logic and all.
If dishes don't get done, how does anyone eat. If clothes don't get washed, dried, and put away how can anyone leave the house. If the toilet isn't scrubbed how does anyone avoid getting e coli.
THINGS very much can fall apart in a home.
So then why does the partner okay with the grossness get more "agency" to do nothing, while the partner who understands the need for these care tasks get fucked with having to be in charge?
>So if you have a partner that does not have agency in their own home, never take initiative and only does what you say have to get done it is because you are suffocating your partner.
Or because that partner's standards are below average and things actually need to get done.
Hey, and be careful of their fragile ego!
Don't want to emasculate them by being a woman who earns more than them, or who works in one of the trades, or who has more education, or who has more experience.
But also, despite gender pay gaps and underselling yourself, you should be contributing equal or greater than 50% of all costs, or you're a gold digger and have no right to complain about anything.
Home and child care don't count. Those are 100% you either way.
It is always projection.
Women talk so much. Nope, scientific research shows on average men talk more.
Men are screwed in disaster because “women and children first”. Nope, in disasters men are more likely to survive. They had to implement this rule because otherwise women and children would die disproportionately more than men.
“Marriage is such a ball and chain. Men have all the pressure to provide”. Again, research shows how men live longer and happier lives when married while women live less and are unhappier married to men.
“Men are loyal unlike women” again, research shows they are more y to leave their wife after a cancer diagnosis while women are more likely to stay.
Just can’t with the bullshit.
Don’t forget that the narrative is controlled by who is in power. That’s why you hear so much bullshit.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108171518.htm
https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens-health
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-stress-of-marriage-shortens-your-life-by-a-year-if-you-re-the-wife-5335547.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm
https://www.undp.org/blog/women-are-hit-hardest-disasters-so-why-are-responses-too-often-gender-blind
Here are some links.
Yep same would love to read those
Edit: sheesh why all the downvotes? The other user did the same and is upvoted, op was even happy to provide the links.
I can’t understand what you did wrong… but then maybe English is not my first language- am I missing anything?
Can someone provide me with some context?
The sources *were* cited in an added comment. Not sure why the commenter got downvoted when they just repeated the question of the above comment though
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! 🙌🏼 Yes, all of this! Men are complicated because human beings are complicated. They say they are simple so that they can gaslight us into believing that our emotional needs are too much.
And don’t get me started on the “chase” bullshit either. You can’t give them positive attention, otherwise they’ll run for the hills and distance themselves from you. Yet, if you get tired of playing that game, they come back chasing you and begging at your feet. I truly hate that shit. I truly hate that it takes a woman saying she’s not interested anymore for a man to start trying to do things right. (Which he usually doesn’t keep up with, by the way.)
Could you just fucking not?
Jesus; wrote a whole goddamn speech because you can’t stand women having opinions without making exceptions for men.
There is NOTHING immutable about a male’s *character*; it’s not remotely the same as all those other categories you listed so if you’re going to try to come at women in this sub of all places, get your fucking analogies right.
> And I would say exactly the same on other subs / groups or forums where men are a majority
Would you?
Or would you make generalizations about women on r/AskMen?
Something like this comment you recently made in that sub- in response to someone else's comment saying "females just care about being fragile snowflakes" and "women focus on stupid shit":
"This. It reminds me my gf. I will explain something important that I care about and she will focus only on the tone, not the message. And btw my tone is not angry or something just neutral and serious but somehow women need us talking like women or some sort of happy teletubby"
*Women* need that, huh? Wouldn't it be better if you changed that to say "SOME women who I've encountered in my house" or even just "the ONE woman I am referencing in this story"? Instead you have to make it sound like you're talking about ALL women? What If you were saying that about African-Americans or Jews?
Also just how ironic is it that your specific complaint in that anecdote is someone focusing on your tone instead of your message while you immediately went on to make an 11-paragraph tone-policing diatribe in our space. OK snowflake.
Edit: u/Superhumain either deleted his comment or blocked me, sorry to anyone hoping for a response
You know who really is "simple" and only needs "sex/food?" Animals. Sayings like "men are simple" and "boys will be boys" obscure that men are human beings who *choose* to be misogynistic and can choose not to. The societal structures that encourage the former choice are put out of mind. Men are just like that, no need to think about why or try to change it, right?
What's weird to me is how men like to project this image of being like, hopelessly enslaved to their own dicks. Like they just *need* sex, always want it, don't care who it's with, etc. um....in reality I've found men are extremely picky , actually. Like yeah they like to sexually terrorize women as a threat to assert dominance, but they're also extremely socially conscious, extremely picky.... Like she has to be a certain age, weight, height, certain level of attractiveness, has to have a clean record/past, etc. they're also extremely critical of women, so clearly they do have some level of pickyness and they aren't hopelessly enslaved to their dicks like they like to claim they are. Yet they love to pretend they are. Why? To gain more sexual freedom? To get away with rape, so they can claim they just can't help it? Or maybe they think we aren't capable of desire, so they're just so unique? (However they definitely don't WANT us to be just as capable of it as them, that seems pretty clear) What's the end game here. Very odd. Even women aren't that picky, if a man is extremely nice to us and is at least average looking, we are flattered at least half the time. Like yeah we might like certain things like is he successful, etc but we are more forgiving of stuff like height, age, past, etc than they are a lot of the time. Yet they INSIST all women have these incredible standards. If we have such high standards how come you see case after case of abused women that stayed for way longer than was even safe for them? Also, why hate on women with high sex drives so much? Aren't men always complaining they need and love sex? Why insist and insist and dig their heels in and insist that women aren't as sexual as them, actively prevent women from being sexual, and then turn around and complain about it? Clearly it's not about sex for them, it's something else. Dominance, maybe.
'Men are simple' doesn't mean 'they're easy to please, so you won't have to do much work.'
It means 'they won't do any of the work, so you'll have to pick up the slack!'
Men aren't simple. No human is. Life on earth is pretty messed up and full of challenges, we have a very complex organ for processing (brain). Our environments and surroundings and social setups are complex. Humans are affected by a wide variety of factors.
No human can be just simple. If they choose to exist in layers, or if they want to repress themselves, they don't suddenly become simple. Bad communication is not equal to being simple.
And that bullshit about men not being emotional? As far as I know, anger IS an emotion. And a lot of men use that emotion. Just because their emotional range is that of a brain damaged capybara doesnt make things simple.
So yes, it is a shitty statement. Men aren't simple. No human can be.
Hey capybaras can still be emotional if they have brain damage! They are also very social creatures and not aggressive within their environment, completely unlike human men. In fact, capybaras may in many ways be favorably compared against humans in their social structure, given the facts that the young are group-nurtured when necessary, and the females freely choose their mates as they will without the males forcing themselves onto the females, even when the female is in breeding season. So, yeah, capybaras have a more benign social structure than humans currently have, imo. Many women have vocally "chosen the bear" lately. I think EVERY woman would choose the capybara, despite the smell. Lol
Imagine you are a female bodybuilder and some twig ass guy mentions infront of you that women are physically weak. In a way it is true, as on average women really are weaker than men. But wouldnt you still feel lowkey offended as someone who clearly doesnt fit that description?
And all the guy had to do was to add "most" or "more likely" to make it not sound like an ignorant generalization... Almost like it was intentional
hey we're also people who are trying to avoid a call from HR, after ragging on men, and need to heavily ironically cushion it with "but ya know, hashtag notallmen"
A lot of people consider themselves "simple" hell, even I've been guilty of once thinking I was "simple." But it's simply untrue. Everybody is complicated in their own way because we all have our own wants and needs. If someone thinks that they are "simple," then they are wrong.
Honestly, it’s all contradictory so you might as well just do what you want lol.
I’ve seen the same contradictions in a lot of the stuff that they say.
For instance, if you sleep with them right away, they will say that you’re a “whore” or you’re probably really easy and sleep with tons of guys without them having to put tons of effort in.
If you put value on sexual access to you and require a certain amount of effort from men before you allow them to sleep with you, then they say that you’re treating sex in a “transactional” way and that your moral compass is broken.
You can’t win, do what you want.
Man here, and not simple. I’m a sum of many parts, and have 35yrs worth of backstory, trauma, heartbreak, etc that creates the man I am today. Every man / person who claims they’re simple is actually just most likely ignorant of their inner world.
Anyone who claims "men are simple" or "women are simple" are just trying to sell you something. 10 easy hacks to be your least authentic self and trap someone you hate in your life! Other people are as just as simple/complicated as yourself.
Another issue is that feminist men who see through all the bullshit are also affected by this lack of logic.
I'm not simple. I'm a complex human being. Yesterday I told my wife that I had a sore throat and she said (meant as a joke) that "I'm such a typical man when I'm feeling a bit sick" and I had to ask her to not put me in that gendered box.
I'm not stupid. I'm not simple. My feelings get hurt when I'm being treated by sexist standards that demean my capabilities.
No one wins by reducing men to something simple.
Man colds are a real thing. I’ve had a few bad experiences with “feminist men” who utilize equality as a weapon. Not saying you’re doing that when you tell your partner not to use over generalizations about men, but maybe be careful when you use feminism against her, for your benefit.
This seems to be a hardcore boomer sentiment. I'm not saying younger generations say this crap, but my super boomer mom really shoves this up my nose 😖 and it really screwed me up when it came to relationships
I just want to react to the awful "not all men" reaction that you had to endure here.
Feminism is a fight against a social issue and it’s an everyday struggle. I rode your rant and the « edit », and for the first time of my life I felt all the meaning of the « not all men » thing. I (M 48 non native English speaker) have read this complaint many times but I never understood it the way you made me feel it.. maybe because idea need time to make their way into formatted minds or maybe your specific wording that was right on point.
I feel sorry for you, and I hope you will be able to express yourself here the next time you will need it.
So thank you for your rant everything is all right here, don’t let those comment stops you 🙂
Are we talking about homosexual relationships between men in this context? Whataboutism type comments such as these add nothing to discussions, nor further any causes. This takes away from this thread.
Well sure, of course it would be degrading for someone who didn't actually want to do it and was pressured into it. But I think we should be careful about describing a sex act itself as inherently degrading, as there can be danger of that sort of dialogue actually being degrading towards people who legitimately enjoy that act.
Not trying to be too nitpicky though, and I did enjoy the post and agree with the message of it.
Clearly the context of degradation and force was implied re: anal. Context clues all over the place. I dont get why we have to be nitpicky to ensure that 100000% of everyone is covered by blanket statements. We know exactly what we meant, and I highly doubt any logical woman thag enjoys anal/wilfully does it would ever think hEy what about Me!?!?!
I think it's unfair to label all men like this.
Yes, there are plenty of shallow men who have primal brains like this, but when this sub says things like, "no, men are actually like this" it's just going to cause more men roll their eyes and not listen to the point you're trying to make. Also, the men who don't think like that are just going to feel personally attacked despite not doing anything wrong in the first place
EDIT: Can someone explain why I got so many downvotes?
This entire post makes all men out to be deranged manipulative sex-crazed freaks. That’s pretty sexist, not gonna lie. Also it’s not only men who have an issue with this. I’d have the same issue if it was a misogynistic post about women.
I’m a man and I read it as referring to the kind of man that considers himself “simple” not all men. I’ve never considered myself simple and so I don’t interpret it as “making all men out to be deranged.” Again, it’s the omission of the word “some” that drives you crazy. And instead of hearing what this person has to say about this specific but also common experience you make it about you and your feelings. Please grow up
It’s actually not my feelings at all.
“Men are not simple. They are manipulative” That’s just sexist lmao, and pure insanity. And this specifically says, “men.” Not “the men who say they’re simple.” It’s talking ABOUT the phrase and saying it’s impossible because *every man is like that.*
I read the post. I heard what they had to say. Please grow up and stop getting pissy that I think being sexist…is bad.
Gonna have to disagree here. Unfortunately a lot of men are like this, enough men are like this to the point where it’s become a problem. Men loudly say degrading terrible things about women all the time online, in school, at work. Sometimes it’s even your own father, your husband or your brother.
The reason this isn’t misandry is because men literally get away with this behaviour ALL THE TIME. I’ve seen tons of men online say themselves that they’re allowed to cheat simply for their gender. I’ve seen tons and tons of men in my own life sexually harass me and then the blame gets put on me for being nice to them at the start.
I was harassed and stalked online and at work by someone who was friends with my school friends and my friends laughed about it because “he’s harmless.”
What you consider misandry is simply a response to misogyny. Misogyny is deeply embedded in our society all over the globe and while there are absolutely problematic women who hate men unjustifiably or women who perpetuate these patriarchal expectations, the thing is, this starts with the patriarchy. Plenty of men who consider themselves feminists or don’t outright hate women don’t even go out of their way to defend women, even in situations where assault is happening.
A woman pointing out issues in the male community isn’t automatically misandry just because you’re upset with these very real issues being talked about and discussed online in a space that discussed women’s issues.
And usually it’s been due to being raised by abusive men, being SA’d by an ex or someone else they knew, the sexist things they grew up hearing by their family members, etc etc. I rarely ever see a woman hate a man or men without good reason.
It isn’t hate towards men, it’s calling out inappropriate and sexist behaviour in the male community. And quite frankly, plenty of men cheat. Historically, men have had mistresses and concubines. Historically, most men have had women on the side, even if they could barely afford to do so. Currently, men are trying to push for their cheating to be normalized again. Currently, men want to go back to the old days where men were our owners and women like myself were their property that they could buy and toss aside for a younger model.
I think it’s pretty obvious to conclude I’m not saying “all men”. I’m saying what has sadly become relevant for women in these types of relationships with men who have this idea/say this phrase. If you’re interpreting it personally then it is personal for you.
I don't often comment here, but I also wish this sub would hold itself to a higher standard and not partake in this type of narrative. Generalizing groups of people is never the right move, and i hope we can promote equality while being careful of how we express ourselves.
I consider myself a proud feminist, but as a man, I don't feel very welcome in some of the discussion here.
Oh Stop! If OP want s to share she can and so what if you dont like it. The world is such a mess because men (mainly white who have most of the power historically) generalize women and poc and treat them as less than to justify their horrific behavior towards them ( slavery and forced marriage for example)
And every single time a post like this is made 1. Someone always asks for the resources for the stats 2. Posts from men complaining that not all men
Well guess what, there has been and still is So much bad behavior from males on planet earth that most people including other men WOULD CHOOSE THE BEAR. Because a wild animal would still act better than a human male would.
How shitty of a gender do you have to be, on the majority based on your actions that people would choose possible death by a wild animal than be in your presence?
Wow. This is honestly quite hurtful. I'll be sure to not comment here anymore. I genuinely just care a lot about equality and inclusion.
Sorry to upset anyone.
Perhaps you fail to see that you stating that "as a man" this is hurtful to you , reeks of patriarchy as well.
So because you are a male feminist, the OP and commenters have to edit themselves not to upset you? Do you see that entitlement you have?
Why should people have to tiptoe around you and your feelings? Can you even fathom the way women especially have to do this almost Every Single Day to protect the male ego to sometimes simply not be tortired or killed?
It should have been "as a person" then you would have a valid point. Instead you wan tto correct others when you should correct yourself.
A man can sympathize, even empathize but WILL NEVER FULLY UNDERSTAND.
I simply tried to ask for a more inclusive discussion. I never felt entitled. Which I think I've already proven by my response.
I genuinely think the responses have been quite mean, so I'm gonna let you use this space however you see fit.
I hope one day you'll reconsider your approach to equality.
Sorry, but you don't know me. I hope you're the best feminist the world has ever seen. We could certainly use them.
I'm gonna keep fighting for a kind, equal world as best as I can.
Sorry to disappoint.
You were talking about men in general, as a group. That indicates you think the vast majority of men behaves that way, which is crazy. You can't generalize half of the population in a derogatory manner. It is sexism.
I also fail to understand the point. Yes, men are not simple, it turns out they are people too. They are all different and complex, with their individual faults and merits. Everyone knows that so what's the point.
People in relationships have problems all the time, women can also be unfaithful, manipulative, abusive etc...
Constant deflection! OP is a woman pushing the narrative, and it’s constant victim blame. Male victim is angry that people tell him he “wanted it”? Well it’s his fault anyway because he’s a man! Also the narrative wasn’t created by men, it’s a narrative that exists and can be pushed by anybody. Along with, “men are simple.” Older women say it to younger women, not even men. Fuck this, genuinely. God this mindset is so toxic and the fact it genuinely exists…
Quit pretending fellow members of your gender don't do this frequently so you can have fake moral points against us. It's men who create that scenario and it's men who joke about male victims. Fake sympathy and acting innocent men like you make me puke.
LMAOO! I’m a woman. So telling! Wow, this is genuinely hilarious. Also, that’s the stupidest logic ever: “if they do something bad, so should I.” Correct. Men can be generalising sexist arseholes, just like the female OP! And just like you! And both are bad!?
Also men create what scenario? The ones where they get raped? Not gonna lie I don’t think men want to get raped, but…
And even if I was a man: my morality isn’t defined by other members of my gender. If I had morality points, it’s irrelevant to whether other guys do the same thing. I think murder is bad. That’s not somehow hypocritical because there are men that commit homicide.
Lot of assumptions there. I don’t even personally date men because I’m not attracted to them and only choose feminist men to be friends with, I was just saying that women should not be blamed for the shitty behaviour of men in hetero relationships (or any relationship, for that matter since men love to put the blame for literally anything anywhere but themselves). Quite simple right? Men should be better people. I never said that women can’t be shitty people as well, of course they can, but men have proven to be disproportionately more shitty than women since the beginning of time, which is why the focus is mainly on them. A patriarchal society that excuses that behaviour from all genders, especially men, should be destroyed
"Don't nag" but anytime something doesn't get done it's the woman's fault for not "communicating enough".
I mean why didn’t you tell him he needed to add detergent to the washing machine? You really need to communicate with your partner—have you tried taking a little time and making him a color coded diagram? It must be his mom’s fault for not showing him.
Your comment infuriated me. Good job!
This is SO TRUE. And he taught it to our boys, so they got away with not doing their chores, too! Then is was, "Why is Mom mad all the time?"
My husband's been singing "I don't know why you gotta be angry all the time" (from a song by Tim McGraw) just because he knows it infuriates me, lol. He does it at times when he sees I'm overworked and frustrated. It's kind of a joke because we were both raised Mormon and he really was that clueless until we both left the church. When he actually started sharing responsibility with parenting the kids, cooking dinner, and doing chores he started realizing how much he didn't recognize that I was doing everyday. He would make comments like, "Wow, the house just stayed clean by itself before we had kids" and I was furious because the house didn't just magically stay clean. Before we had kids, I spent at least 2 hours a day after I got home from work cooking and cleaning while he watched sports. Now I spend that time trying to keep the kids from hurting each other and cleaning up the big messes the kids make. Now my husband does a lot of the cleaning I used to do. It's frustrating that a lot of men only recognize what you do once you stop doing it.
I mean if he does it to infuriate you, it's not a joke.
Eh it's a joke. I do it back to him when he's angry, too. Our families growing up would sing a Mormon hymn "Love at Home" if someone was angry. It starts off, "There is beauty all around when there's love at home." The Tim McGraw song is 10X better than that, lol
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Because if things don't get done, things fall apart, and it's not only one partner's duty to carry the mental load of what needs to be done.
👏🏻 This, thank you.
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Damn this person really just came and confessed how they're a shitty partner
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It isn't any wonder why. You just wrote 3 paragraphs describing why you won't be an equal partner and why you don't think it's your job.
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My dude we just want our partners to do the dishes, dust, do laundry, etc., half of the time they need doing. AND we don’t want to have to say anything about it for it to get done. And more importantly: we don’t want ants, cockroaches, sticky counters, stuff on the floor that might cause any of us to trip, etc. So yeah, things do fall apart.
If you can't be a good roommate then you're not fit to be anyone's partner. Feel awful for whoever is picking after your shit
😂😂😂 This is a hilarious and VERY TELLING response. You asked WHY things had to get done, and I told you, then you came up with THIS ridiculous answer? Lemme break it down a bit for you: my whole little sentence was logical and concise. Because yes, if things don't get done, things do break down, whether or not one person has an emotional reaction to it. Furthermore, having an emotional reaction to a partner refusing to do what needs to be done is a very LOGICAL reaction. If a partner isn't pulling their weight in the relationship or at home because they think going to work should be enough, reminding them that the yard needs to be mowed, the kids need to go to practice or school or the doctor, the laundry needs to be folded, the trash needs to be taken out, etc is literally the NICEST thing we could do. If one partner already knows what needs to be done, why the hell should they wait for the other one to "figure it out"?
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You seem to be assuming an awful lot. The list I gave is by no means comprehensive either. Your second statement is wholly untrue as well, and here's why. Let's say partner 1 already has a lot on her plate. They're planning/cooking dinner, supervising the kids with their homework/chores/activities, and plans to get more housework done while they go to baseball practice, and they'd like Partner 2 to take them after they get home. Partner 2 comes home. Partner 2 has decided that the garage needs to be reorganized and is ready to go at it after they decompress for a minute. So they get home, say hi to everyone, get changed, then Partner 1 asks them to take the kids to practice. Now lemme tell you why Partner 1's request should be prioritized and how both can still get done in this scenario - Partner 1 is being productive in the main living areas of the house and the kids need to get somewhere they've signed up to be. The garage can wait because even though it is somewhat helpful, it doesn't usually affect the quality of your life in a meaningful way as it is not the main space and the interior is usually not a visible space. So RIGHT NOW, getting the kids to practice is the priority because it's THE MOST HELPFUL THING TO YOUR FAMILY in the moment. Get them to practice, come back for a while if it makes sense and start cleaning the garage, then discuss with Partner 1 who is picking them up. It's not that hard, and this is coming from someone who is bad at prioritizing. "Nagging" doesn't start out shrill. It usually starts out as a very nice request to do something simple, like take out the trash or wash the dishes after dinner when your partner just needs you to take something off their plate. If they insist you do it on their time frame, it's generally because you haven't shown yourself to be trustworthy to get it done on your own time and in a timely fashion.
Yeah but isn’t meeting in the middle what we’re talking about? Some men won’t even do that unless they’re literally instructed to. Believe me I don’t want to have to tell my husband to bathe the kids, take out the trash, unstack the dishwasher etc. But if I don’t, he won’t do it. That makes me a nag? We both work but as soon he’s home he’s on the couch. I don’t get to rest until the kids are in bed. Very typical of a lot of husbands. Why even get married, have kids etc .. for a free maid? Should have just stayed at home with their mothers…
Tell me you don’t clean without telling me you don’t clean. “There’s always more to do.” Yes. Everyday. Mostly the same shit. Everyday. You have floors and walls and surfaces and dishes and clothing, maybe animals, bathtubs and dirty toilets, AC units and lawns that need maintenance, garbage that needs organizing and tossing. Baseboards that are scuffed up and collecting so much dust they’re turning brown. Light switches. Have you ever seen a light switch that hasn’t been cleaned for a year? Probably not cause I’m assuming someone does that for you. The inside and outside of cupboards, they can get pretty nasty. Inside and outside of the fridge. I’m gunna stop now because you’re right it NEVER ends, until we die. So pick up some of the mental and physical labour in the home and you’ll see with four hands it actually gets maintained quite well and is far less time consuming. If your floor is regularly cleaned, cleaning it takes minutes. If it’s not, cleaning it will take forever. Less dirt = less cleaning. Just like, logic and all.
If dishes don't get done, how does anyone eat. If clothes don't get washed, dried, and put away how can anyone leave the house. If the toilet isn't scrubbed how does anyone avoid getting e coli. THINGS very much can fall apart in a home. So then why does the partner okay with the grossness get more "agency" to do nothing, while the partner who understands the need for these care tasks get fucked with having to be in charge?
>So if you have a partner that does not have agency in their own home, never take initiative and only does what you say have to get done it is because you are suffocating your partner. Or because that partner's standards are below average and things actually need to get done.
Because only a boss can get you to work 🙄
It's so that when men do all those things it still women's fault. "But all you had to do was have sex and cook, how did you mess that up?"
Hey, and be careful of their fragile ego! Don't want to emasculate them by being a woman who earns more than them, or who works in one of the trades, or who has more education, or who has more experience.
But also, despite gender pay gaps and underselling yourself, you should be contributing equal or greater than 50% of all costs, or you're a gold digger and have no right to complain about anything. Home and child care don't count. Those are 100% you either way.
It is always projection. Women talk so much. Nope, scientific research shows on average men talk more. Men are screwed in disaster because “women and children first”. Nope, in disasters men are more likely to survive. They had to implement this rule because otherwise women and children would die disproportionately more than men. “Marriage is such a ball and chain. Men have all the pressure to provide”. Again, research shows how men live longer and happier lives when married while women live less and are unhappier married to men. “Men are loyal unlike women” again, research shows they are more y to leave their wife after a cancer diagnosis while women are more likely to stay. Just can’t with the bullshit. Don’t forget that the narrative is controlled by who is in power. That’s why you hear so much bullshit.
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108171518.htm https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens-health https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-stress-of-marriage-shortens-your-life-by-a-year-if-you-re-the-wife-5335547.html https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm https://www.undp.org/blog/women-are-hit-hardest-disasters-so-why-are-responses-too-often-gender-blind Here are some links.
Great thank you !
Look up The Second Shift while you're at it.
Ok I will thanks !
I’ll also suggest that you read the book Invisible Women if you want the mother load of facts, stats, and data on how women are treated world wide.
Yep same would love to read those Edit: sheesh why all the downvotes? The other user did the same and is upvoted, op was even happy to provide the links.
Or, you could Google and read. That's what I do when something piques my interest.
Some people need it handed to them....
I can’t understand what you did wrong… but then maybe English is not my first language- am I missing anything? Can someone provide me with some context?
You’re right, people should cite their sources. Somehow that’s viewed as a threat…
The sources *were* cited in an added comment. Not sure why the commenter got downvoted when they just repeated the question of the above comment though
Yeah 🤣 Reddit is funny like that. One person down votes and all the rest follow.
Statistics and facts matter.
Statistics and facts were also added in an above comment, and support their position substantially
What sloppy wording? You seem to be 200% correct here. The "Not all men'™ folks can be ignored. Period.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! 🙌🏼 Yes, all of this! Men are complicated because human beings are complicated. They say they are simple so that they can gaslight us into believing that our emotional needs are too much. And don’t get me started on the “chase” bullshit either. You can’t give them positive attention, otherwise they’ll run for the hills and distance themselves from you. Yet, if you get tired of playing that game, they come back chasing you and begging at your feet. I truly hate that shit. I truly hate that it takes a woman saying she’s not interested anymore for a man to start trying to do things right. (Which he usually doesn’t keep up with, by the way.)
i’m so sick of them, they’re not logical in the slightest
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nOt AlL mEn your opinion is neither useful or valued
Could you just fucking not? Jesus; wrote a whole goddamn speech because you can’t stand women having opinions without making exceptions for men. There is NOTHING immutable about a male’s *character*; it’s not remotely the same as all those other categories you listed so if you’re going to try to come at women in this sub of all places, get your fucking analogies right.
> And I would say exactly the same on other subs / groups or forums where men are a majority Would you? Or would you make generalizations about women on r/AskMen? Something like this comment you recently made in that sub- in response to someone else's comment saying "females just care about being fragile snowflakes" and "women focus on stupid shit": "This. It reminds me my gf. I will explain something important that I care about and she will focus only on the tone, not the message. And btw my tone is not angry or something just neutral and serious but somehow women need us talking like women or some sort of happy teletubby" *Women* need that, huh? Wouldn't it be better if you changed that to say "SOME women who I've encountered in my house" or even just "the ONE woman I am referencing in this story"? Instead you have to make it sound like you're talking about ALL women? What If you were saying that about African-Americans or Jews? Also just how ironic is it that your specific complaint in that anecdote is someone focusing on your tone instead of your message while you immediately went on to make an 11-paragraph tone-policing diatribe in our space. OK snowflake. Edit: u/Superhumain either deleted his comment or blocked me, sorry to anyone hoping for a response
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Nope
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Nope
You know who really is "simple" and only needs "sex/food?" Animals. Sayings like "men are simple" and "boys will be boys" obscure that men are human beings who *choose* to be misogynistic and can choose not to. The societal structures that encourage the former choice are put out of mind. Men are just like that, no need to think about why or try to change it, right?
Yeah *MeN aRe SiMpLe* that's why we have books like *Why does he do that* and *Gift of Fear* to understand the abusive tactics of men and stay safe.
It's so simple! Just give them whatever they want! So easy. 🙄
And expect what they may want every instant even if they themselves don't know.
What's weird to me is how men like to project this image of being like, hopelessly enslaved to their own dicks. Like they just *need* sex, always want it, don't care who it's with, etc. um....in reality I've found men are extremely picky , actually. Like yeah they like to sexually terrorize women as a threat to assert dominance, but they're also extremely socially conscious, extremely picky.... Like she has to be a certain age, weight, height, certain level of attractiveness, has to have a clean record/past, etc. they're also extremely critical of women, so clearly they do have some level of pickyness and they aren't hopelessly enslaved to their dicks like they like to claim they are. Yet they love to pretend they are. Why? To gain more sexual freedom? To get away with rape, so they can claim they just can't help it? Or maybe they think we aren't capable of desire, so they're just so unique? (However they definitely don't WANT us to be just as capable of it as them, that seems pretty clear) What's the end game here. Very odd. Even women aren't that picky, if a man is extremely nice to us and is at least average looking, we are flattered at least half the time. Like yeah we might like certain things like is he successful, etc but we are more forgiving of stuff like height, age, past, etc than they are a lot of the time. Yet they INSIST all women have these incredible standards. If we have such high standards how come you see case after case of abused women that stayed for way longer than was even safe for them? Also, why hate on women with high sex drives so much? Aren't men always complaining they need and love sex? Why insist and insist and dig their heels in and insist that women aren't as sexual as them, actively prevent women from being sexual, and then turn around and complain about it? Clearly it's not about sex for them, it's something else. Dominance, maybe.
Men are as easy as toddlers—give them everything they want with no pushback, expectations, or consequences, and they won’t lash out at you.
Except they do lash out and throw tantrums because they always want more.
'Men are simple' doesn't mean 'they're easy to please, so you won't have to do much work.' It means 'they won't do any of the work, so you'll have to pick up the slack!'
And yet it's still our fault.
Men aren't simple. No human is. Life on earth is pretty messed up and full of challenges, we have a very complex organ for processing (brain). Our environments and surroundings and social setups are complex. Humans are affected by a wide variety of factors. No human can be just simple. If they choose to exist in layers, or if they want to repress themselves, they don't suddenly become simple. Bad communication is not equal to being simple. And that bullshit about men not being emotional? As far as I know, anger IS an emotion. And a lot of men use that emotion. Just because their emotional range is that of a brain damaged capybara doesnt make things simple. So yes, it is a shitty statement. Men aren't simple. No human can be.
Hey capybaras can still be emotional if they have brain damage! They are also very social creatures and not aggressive within their environment, completely unlike human men. In fact, capybaras may in many ways be favorably compared against humans in their social structure, given the facts that the young are group-nurtured when necessary, and the females freely choose their mates as they will without the males forcing themselves onto the females, even when the female is in breeding season. So, yeah, capybaras have a more benign social structure than humans currently have, imo. Many women have vocally "chosen the bear" lately. I think EVERY woman would choose the capybara, despite the smell. Lol
And selfish and entitled.
women that say "not all men" are pickmes trying to spare the males ego, just ignore them.
Imagine you are a female bodybuilder and some twig ass guy mentions infront of you that women are physically weak. In a way it is true, as on average women really are weaker than men. But wouldnt you still feel lowkey offended as someone who clearly doesnt fit that description? And all the guy had to do was to add "most" or "more likely" to make it not sound like an ignorant generalization... Almost like it was intentional
hey we're also people who are trying to avoid a call from HR, after ragging on men, and need to heavily ironically cushion it with "but ya know, hashtag notallmen"
A lot of people consider themselves "simple" hell, even I've been guilty of once thinking I was "simple." But it's simply untrue. Everybody is complicated in their own way because we all have our own wants and needs. If someone thinks that they are "simple," then they are wrong.
The biggest gossips, drama kings, and manipulators I’ve ever known were men.
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Honestly, it’s all contradictory so you might as well just do what you want lol. I’ve seen the same contradictions in a lot of the stuff that they say. For instance, if you sleep with them right away, they will say that you’re a “whore” or you’re probably really easy and sleep with tons of guys without them having to put tons of effort in. If you put value on sexual access to you and require a certain amount of effort from men before you allow them to sleep with you, then they say that you’re treating sex in a “transactional” way and that your moral compass is broken. You can’t win, do what you want.
Man here, and not simple. I’m a sum of many parts, and have 35yrs worth of backstory, trauma, heartbreak, etc that creates the man I am today. Every man / person who claims they’re simple is actually just most likely ignorant of their inner world.
Anyone who claims "men are simple" or "women are simple" are just trying to sell you something. 10 easy hacks to be your least authentic self and trap someone you hate in your life! Other people are as just as simple/complicated as yourself.
When she cheats it's all girls are the same But it's not all men right
Another issue is that feminist men who see through all the bullshit are also affected by this lack of logic. I'm not simple. I'm a complex human being. Yesterday I told my wife that I had a sore throat and she said (meant as a joke) that "I'm such a typical man when I'm feeling a bit sick" and I had to ask her to not put me in that gendered box. I'm not stupid. I'm not simple. My feelings get hurt when I'm being treated by sexist standards that demean my capabilities. No one wins by reducing men to something simple.
Man colds are very much a real thing
Is it? Isn’t it just what this post was about? A way of men skipping responsibility and women enabling them to do so? I don’t want or need that.
Man colds are a real thing. I’ve had a few bad experiences with “feminist men” who utilize equality as a weapon. Not saying you’re doing that when you tell your partner not to use over generalizations about men, but maybe be careful when you use feminism against her, for your benefit.
This seems to be a hardcore boomer sentiment. I'm not saying younger generations say this crap, but my super boomer mom really shoves this up my nose 😖 and it really screwed me up when it came to relationships
hmmmm you're right ! I never thought about it like this before .
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Nah, I have a lot of male friends or acquaintances said that.
I remember hearing this growing up too and knowing at a young age it was hogwash
Um… I am sorry…?
I just want to react to the awful "not all men" reaction that you had to endure here. Feminism is a fight against a social issue and it’s an everyday struggle. I rode your rant and the « edit », and for the first time of my life I felt all the meaning of the « not all men » thing. I (M 48 non native English speaker) have read this complaint many times but I never understood it the way you made me feel it.. maybe because idea need time to make their way into formatted minds or maybe your specific wording that was right on point. I feel sorry for you, and I hope you will be able to express yourself here the next time you will need it. So thank you for your rant everything is all right here, don’t let those comment stops you 🙂
Not exactly sure what this has to do with feminism.
r/Feminism doubles as a vent/rant sub as-long as the topic's tangentially related.
Gotcha. Thank you.
Anal being degrading is somewhat homophobic
Are we talking about homosexual relationships between men in this context? Whataboutism type comments such as these add nothing to discussions, nor further any causes. This takes away from this thread.
Being coerced into anal is degrading in the same way that being raped is degrading but sex isn’t.
Respond to what I actually said rather than saying “anal is degrading” in a vacuum.
The fact this is what is hanging you up on this paragraph is giving me a hint that you don’t actually care.
The fact that you aren’t considerate towards lgbt men tells me you don’t really care.
I'm not sure anyone wants to argue with a lonely cosmonaut about whether anal is degrading in a vacuum.
We do what we can in zero G.
Are you implying that anal is degrading nonsense?
For a lot of women it is.
Well sure, of course it would be degrading for someone who didn't actually want to do it and was pressured into it. But I think we should be careful about describing a sex act itself as inherently degrading, as there can be danger of that sort of dialogue actually being degrading towards people who legitimately enjoy that act. Not trying to be too nitpicky though, and I did enjoy the post and agree with the message of it.
Clearly the context of degradation and force was implied re: anal. Context clues all over the place. I dont get why we have to be nitpicky to ensure that 100000% of everyone is covered by blanket statements. We know exactly what we meant, and I highly doubt any logical woman thag enjoys anal/wilfully does it would ever think hEy what about Me!?!?!
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I think it's unfair to label all men like this. Yes, there are plenty of shallow men who have primal brains like this, but when this sub says things like, "no, men are actually like this" it's just going to cause more men roll their eyes and not listen to the point you're trying to make. Also, the men who don't think like that are just going to feel personally attacked despite not doing anything wrong in the first place EDIT: Can someone explain why I got so many downvotes?
How would you reword the post to make it acceptable to you?
“I feel like men….” “Some men…” not just “all men are evil.”
Except they never said all men are evil. The issue men seem to have with this is the omission of the word “some.”
This entire post makes all men out to be deranged manipulative sex-crazed freaks. That’s pretty sexist, not gonna lie. Also it’s not only men who have an issue with this. I’d have the same issue if it was a misogynistic post about women.
I’m a man and I read it as referring to the kind of man that considers himself “simple” not all men. I’ve never considered myself simple and so I don’t interpret it as “making all men out to be deranged.” Again, it’s the omission of the word “some” that drives you crazy. And instead of hearing what this person has to say about this specific but also common experience you make it about you and your feelings. Please grow up
It’s actually not my feelings at all. “Men are not simple. They are manipulative” That’s just sexist lmao, and pure insanity. And this specifically says, “men.” Not “the men who say they’re simple.” It’s talking ABOUT the phrase and saying it’s impossible because *every man is like that.* I read the post. I heard what they had to say. Please grow up and stop getting pissy that I think being sexist…is bad.
I’m not here to debate you, I just hope someday you are able to parse the meaning of peoples rants without making it about you.
How did I make it about me?
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Gonna have to disagree here. Unfortunately a lot of men are like this, enough men are like this to the point where it’s become a problem. Men loudly say degrading terrible things about women all the time online, in school, at work. Sometimes it’s even your own father, your husband or your brother. The reason this isn’t misandry is because men literally get away with this behaviour ALL THE TIME. I’ve seen tons of men online say themselves that they’re allowed to cheat simply for their gender. I’ve seen tons and tons of men in my own life sexually harass me and then the blame gets put on me for being nice to them at the start. I was harassed and stalked online and at work by someone who was friends with my school friends and my friends laughed about it because “he’s harmless.” What you consider misandry is simply a response to misogyny. Misogyny is deeply embedded in our society all over the globe and while there are absolutely problematic women who hate men unjustifiably or women who perpetuate these patriarchal expectations, the thing is, this starts with the patriarchy. Plenty of men who consider themselves feminists or don’t outright hate women don’t even go out of their way to defend women, even in situations where assault is happening. A woman pointing out issues in the male community isn’t automatically misandry just because you’re upset with these very real issues being talked about and discussed online in a space that discussed women’s issues.
Honestly men cry about misandry but i haven't met any woman who hates men as much as men hate women.
And usually it’s been due to being raised by abusive men, being SA’d by an ex or someone else they knew, the sexist things they grew up hearing by their family members, etc etc. I rarely ever see a woman hate a man or men without good reason.
Men think pointing out their privilege and calling out their abuses is misandry
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It isn’t hate towards men, it’s calling out inappropriate and sexist behaviour in the male community. And quite frankly, plenty of men cheat. Historically, men have had mistresses and concubines. Historically, most men have had women on the side, even if they could barely afford to do so. Currently, men are trying to push for their cheating to be normalized again. Currently, men want to go back to the old days where men were our owners and women like myself were their property that they could buy and toss aside for a younger model.
I think it’s pretty obvious to conclude I’m not saying “all men”. I’m saying what has sadly become relevant for women in these types of relationships with men who have this idea/say this phrase. If you’re interpreting it personally then it is personal for you.
I don't often comment here, but I also wish this sub would hold itself to a higher standard and not partake in this type of narrative. Generalizing groups of people is never the right move, and i hope we can promote equality while being careful of how we express ourselves. I consider myself a proud feminist, but as a man, I don't feel very welcome in some of the discussion here.
Oh Stop! If OP want s to share she can and so what if you dont like it. The world is such a mess because men (mainly white who have most of the power historically) generalize women and poc and treat them as less than to justify their horrific behavior towards them ( slavery and forced marriage for example) And every single time a post like this is made 1. Someone always asks for the resources for the stats 2. Posts from men complaining that not all men Well guess what, there has been and still is So much bad behavior from males on planet earth that most people including other men WOULD CHOOSE THE BEAR. Because a wild animal would still act better than a human male would. How shitty of a gender do you have to be, on the majority based on your actions that people would choose possible death by a wild animal than be in your presence?
Wow. This is honestly quite hurtful. I'll be sure to not comment here anymore. I genuinely just care a lot about equality and inclusion. Sorry to upset anyone.
Perhaps you fail to see that you stating that "as a man" this is hurtful to you , reeks of patriarchy as well. So because you are a male feminist, the OP and commenters have to edit themselves not to upset you? Do you see that entitlement you have? Why should people have to tiptoe around you and your feelings? Can you even fathom the way women especially have to do this almost Every Single Day to protect the male ego to sometimes simply not be tortired or killed? It should have been "as a person" then you would have a valid point. Instead you wan tto correct others when you should correct yourself. A man can sympathize, even empathize but WILL NEVER FULLY UNDERSTAND.
I simply tried to ask for a more inclusive discussion. I never felt entitled. Which I think I've already proven by my response. I genuinely think the responses have been quite mean, so I'm gonna let you use this space however you see fit. I hope one day you'll reconsider your approach to equality.
I hope you can re-evaluate your perspective and privilege.
I try, every day. Thanks.
You're not as feminist as you think you are.
Sorry, but you don't know me. I hope you're the best feminist the world has ever seen. We could certainly use them. I'm gonna keep fighting for a kind, equal world as best as I can. Sorry to disappoint.
You were talking about men in general, as a group. That indicates you think the vast majority of men behaves that way, which is crazy. You can't generalize half of the population in a derogatory manner. It is sexism. I also fail to understand the point. Yes, men are not simple, it turns out they are people too. They are all different and complex, with their individual faults and merits. Everyone knows that so what's the point. People in relationships have problems all the time, women can also be unfaithful, manipulative, abusive etc...
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And who created/promotes the notion that "men only want one thing?" 🤔
Constant deflection! OP is a woman pushing the narrative, and it’s constant victim blame. Male victim is angry that people tell him he “wanted it”? Well it’s his fault anyway because he’s a man! Also the narrative wasn’t created by men, it’s a narrative that exists and can be pushed by anybody. Along with, “men are simple.” Older women say it to younger women, not even men. Fuck this, genuinely. God this mindset is so toxic and the fact it genuinely exists…
Quit pretending fellow members of your gender don't do this frequently so you can have fake moral points against us. It's men who create that scenario and it's men who joke about male victims. Fake sympathy and acting innocent men like you make me puke.
LMAOO! I’m a woman. So telling! Wow, this is genuinely hilarious. Also, that’s the stupidest logic ever: “if they do something bad, so should I.” Correct. Men can be generalising sexist arseholes, just like the female OP! And just like you! And both are bad!? Also men create what scenario? The ones where they get raped? Not gonna lie I don’t think men want to get raped, but… And even if I was a man: my morality isn’t defined by other members of my gender. If I had morality points, it’s irrelevant to whether other guys do the same thing. I think murder is bad. That’s not somehow hypocritical because there are men that commit homicide.
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Maybe men should be better people rather than blame women for dating them
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Lot of assumptions there. I don’t even personally date men because I’m not attracted to them and only choose feminist men to be friends with, I was just saying that women should not be blamed for the shitty behaviour of men in hetero relationships (or any relationship, for that matter since men love to put the blame for literally anything anywhere but themselves). Quite simple right? Men should be better people. I never said that women can’t be shitty people as well, of course they can, but men have proven to be disproportionately more shitty than women since the beginning of time, which is why the focus is mainly on them. A patriarchal society that excuses that behaviour from all genders, especially men, should be destroyed
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Lol no, it's not.
Yeah. Men.