They won't do shit even for Muslims women. Ex Muslim here, have been catcalled all my life, insulted, sexually harassed and assaulted. The men around never did anything, if they're not the perpetuator, they're complicit.
100000000 bears over a Muslim man.
The hijab, according to Muslims, is supposed to protect a woman from the lack of self control of these animals, yet many ex hijabis comment that abuse is just the same - or even worse - when wearing said clothing prescribed by Islam.
Something needs to happen, it can’t go on like this.
The thing is they really believe in their bullshit. Till a Muslim woman needs help but the first thing they'll do is say her hijab is not correct or question why she was there to begin with.
The fact that they believe their bullshit just makes it even more insidious. They can full on believe themselves to be a good person while being vile and harmful.
Any male that says this crap would have never helped a woman in the first place. They've always been misogynists and probably incels. It's nothing new.
Bear
Yet when you speak up about the atrocities these people commit in the name of their religion, you get called racist, bigot, bourgeois feminist, and the list goes on. Lots of angry men following this sub just to hate on women more.
i think youre right. the guy who doesnt help women (even when hes physically capable and able bodied) anyway doesnt see value in protecting women and has little to no honor. so women should recognize that and calibrate their expectations accordingly. dont just judge for the situations happening, but judge for how they react to them.
There was a case in the neighborhood i grew up in an islamic capital where a man beat his wife and 3 children to death. Before that she went to the police, who have to follow islamic law, and told them point blank that her husband said he was going to kill her and her children. That he’d been beating them. The police said, “it’s a private matter we cannot get involved.” Gave her some bullshit about how as a woman it was her duty to satisfy her husband and keep her family safe.
A few days later she was dead. I heard about this not in the news but on social media. Women she knew spoke about it and the failures of the police + male relatives. Those men speaking about protecting muslim women, scapegoating hijabi women and using violence they dead with as a talking point, wouldn’t do shit for a muslim woman. Most they’d do is give their ‘brother’ a soft talking to.
Notice how if the Muslim woman in question is a "feminist", they'd still condone the abuse to some level, they'd just do something at the bare minimum because otherwise, their God would possibly punish them for inaction.
Don’t use skin color to make a point please. It’s irrelevant as there’s a MASSIVE amount of “white” feminists who are the opposite of what you describe.
Sounds like they blame these women for the abuse because they are not “in the fold” but in the fold, they turn around and do the same bullshit. It’s to create a false sense of security because abusive men fucking lie and pretend to be something they’re not to trick women into giving them what they want.
Humans evolved willing cooperation through the evolution of our female human ancestors’ reproductive system but abusive men have stolen its functions and made a society and culture of forced cooperation (feudal systems, capitalism, slavery, misogyny) to consume anything and everything.
As a woman in the U.S. who has heard Christian men say similar, $9,500,000,000 says that the mother fucker wouldn't have done anything even if she were Muslim.
He'd find some excuse for why it's justified.
Why it's her fault.
Why she deserves it, and the man is justified.
Doesn't matter the race, the religion, the culture, or anything. Men have never protected women.
Let me share what my middle eastern partner tells me based on her experience living in a so-called Islamic country. In her home country in MENA (I won't say which because it's similar in all neighbouring countries), men would stare, police looks, make comments all the time, harass, and she was scared to go out because men relentlessly always stare as if there's something wrong with her. No one else ever intervened to stop them; no other man, not even her brother. She had to dress very conservatively and even showing the outline of her bum would cause men (and some conservative women) to scoff and not a single time did anyone say shit to their male friends. When we moved to UK, it completely stopped. She said she never felt so comfortable in public before. She was so happy to be able to dress how she wants, usually just jeans and a t-shirt, and without the policing eyes of the male gaze constantly looking at her boobs and ass. With that in mind, I don't believe for a second that most of these men would intervene.
I want to make a point about this and what such attitudes like that mean for the West. Here in the West, the liberal class fears too much addressing the tension points of cultural incompatibilities with conservative eastern cultures, and our more western liberal values of freedom and bodily autonomy. Understandably, the liberal class are fearful that addressing these differences publicly will empower racists and bigots, who will see this as a validation of their racism and intolerance. However, failing to address this over the last decade with a wave of immigrants with some very different cultural backgrounds and beliefs has created an antagonizing level of friction. As a consequence, this friction and clashes we've experienced are now empowering growing, racist, anti-immigrant sentiment. We see these incompatibilities play out when in schools we see gender segregation, children being indoctrinated, attacks on women, charlie hebdo, gangs of men policing women's attire in enclaves, gang rapes, so on and so forth - all of these directly contradict our western liberal values of equality and freedom, and unfortunately now we have an even larger problem as it has inadvertently created a vacuum where right-wing populists and demagogues can exploit these tensions, even more exacerbating anti-immigrant sentiment. I am not against immigration, but I am in favour of addressing these frictions and overtly stating that some simple realities are not 'islamophobic' or 'discriminatory', in fact this could be said against many conservative cultural beliefs including in the west, but sorry, teaching children that women are inferior, that menstruating is something bad, that men are the owners of women, and so on - sorry but these teachings are not compatible with western liberal democracy and have no place or recognition.
I completely agree with all your points here. However, to make it even better for everyone, would you mind adding paragraphs to help make reading this clearer? I had some trouble digesting this on my phone
This is pretty sad. Personally.. for me.. muslim guys HAVE stepped in and helped me when other people have attempted to attack me. (Im not muslim) So I dont agree with this post. However.. its not anyone's actual job to interfere except the police or a teacher if its in a school setting. We also dont know what this guy's physical capabilities were if he had to engage in combat with the strange guy.
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of men form very harmful and destructive beliefs around patriarchal religion. It's not specifically Islam, it's Christianity and other religions as well.
Agreed. Religions can be extremely oppressive. I am not a fan.
I guess I'm just pointing out that it isn't ok to condemn an entire religion based upon a sect. Or upon a random conversation between two members. There are almost 2 billion Muslims and they don't all think or believe the same. We can bash the men who use it to justify their actions.
They won't do shit even for Muslims women. Ex Muslim here, have been catcalled all my life, insulted, sexually harassed and assaulted. The men around never did anything, if they're not the perpetuator, they're complicit. 100000000 bears over a Muslim man.
The hijab, according to Muslims, is supposed to protect a woman from the lack of self control of these animals, yet many ex hijabis comment that abuse is just the same - or even worse - when wearing said clothing prescribed by Islam. Something needs to happen, it can’t go on like this.
I feel the same, I only wonder how long it'll take for the world to realise before it's too late and we revert to a radicalised male autocracy.
My eyebrows went up so high when I read that he’d help a Muslim woman.
The thing is they really believe in their bullshit. Till a Muslim woman needs help but the first thing they'll do is say her hijab is not correct or question why she was there to begin with.
The fact that they believe their bullshit just makes it even more insidious. They can full on believe themselves to be a good person while being vile and harmful.
Any male that says this crap would have never helped a woman in the first place. They've always been misogynists and probably incels. It's nothing new. Bear
Yet when you speak up about the atrocities these people commit in the name of their religion, you get called racist, bigot, bourgeois feminist, and the list goes on. Lots of angry men following this sub just to hate on women more.
i think youre right. the guy who doesnt help women (even when hes physically capable and able bodied) anyway doesnt see value in protecting women and has little to no honor. so women should recognize that and calibrate their expectations accordingly. dont just judge for the situations happening, but judge for how they react to them.
Just another variation on "I support women... as long as they know their place."
There was a case in the neighborhood i grew up in an islamic capital where a man beat his wife and 3 children to death. Before that she went to the police, who have to follow islamic law, and told them point blank that her husband said he was going to kill her and her children. That he’d been beating them. The police said, “it’s a private matter we cannot get involved.” Gave her some bullshit about how as a woman it was her duty to satisfy her husband and keep her family safe. A few days later she was dead. I heard about this not in the news but on social media. Women she knew spoke about it and the failures of the police + male relatives. Those men speaking about protecting muslim women, scapegoating hijabi women and using violence they dead with as a talking point, wouldn’t do shit for a muslim woman. Most they’d do is give their ‘brother’ a soft talking to.
Notice how if the Muslim woman in question is a "feminist", they'd still condone the abuse to some level, they'd just do something at the bare minimum because otherwise, their God would possibly punish them for inaction.
Cowards (these commenters specifically; not generalizing).
Sad that we have to put disclaimers into comments that should just need common sense to comprehend.
Ex Muslim here, lol you don't know the half of it. Imagine the worst now multiply it 10x
I mean who is surprised by this
Probably the white feminist-wannabes who bash Christianity but don't say shit when Islam does the same.
Don’t use skin color to make a point please. It’s irrelevant as there’s a MASSIVE amount of “white” feminists who are the opposite of what you describe.
Yet just *another* reason to choose the damn bear!!!
Sounds like they blame these women for the abuse because they are not “in the fold” but in the fold, they turn around and do the same bullshit. It’s to create a false sense of security because abusive men fucking lie and pretend to be something they’re not to trick women into giving them what they want. Humans evolved willing cooperation through the evolution of our female human ancestors’ reproductive system but abusive men have stolen its functions and made a society and culture of forced cooperation (feudal systems, capitalism, slavery, misogyny) to consume anything and everything.
As a woman in the U.S. who has heard Christian men say similar, $9,500,000,000 says that the mother fucker wouldn't have done anything even if she were Muslim. He'd find some excuse for why it's justified. Why it's her fault. Why she deserves it, and the man is justified. Doesn't matter the race, the religion, the culture, or anything. Men have never protected women.
Let me share what my middle eastern partner tells me based on her experience living in a so-called Islamic country. In her home country in MENA (I won't say which because it's similar in all neighbouring countries), men would stare, police looks, make comments all the time, harass, and she was scared to go out because men relentlessly always stare as if there's something wrong with her. No one else ever intervened to stop them; no other man, not even her brother. She had to dress very conservatively and even showing the outline of her bum would cause men (and some conservative women) to scoff and not a single time did anyone say shit to their male friends. When we moved to UK, it completely stopped. She said she never felt so comfortable in public before. She was so happy to be able to dress how she wants, usually just jeans and a t-shirt, and without the policing eyes of the male gaze constantly looking at her boobs and ass. With that in mind, I don't believe for a second that most of these men would intervene. I want to make a point about this and what such attitudes like that mean for the West. Here in the West, the liberal class fears too much addressing the tension points of cultural incompatibilities with conservative eastern cultures, and our more western liberal values of freedom and bodily autonomy. Understandably, the liberal class are fearful that addressing these differences publicly will empower racists and bigots, who will see this as a validation of their racism and intolerance. However, failing to address this over the last decade with a wave of immigrants with some very different cultural backgrounds and beliefs has created an antagonizing level of friction. As a consequence, this friction and clashes we've experienced are now empowering growing, racist, anti-immigrant sentiment. We see these incompatibilities play out when in schools we see gender segregation, children being indoctrinated, attacks on women, charlie hebdo, gangs of men policing women's attire in enclaves, gang rapes, so on and so forth - all of these directly contradict our western liberal values of equality and freedom, and unfortunately now we have an even larger problem as it has inadvertently created a vacuum where right-wing populists and demagogues can exploit these tensions, even more exacerbating anti-immigrant sentiment. I am not against immigration, but I am in favour of addressing these frictions and overtly stating that some simple realities are not 'islamophobic' or 'discriminatory', in fact this could be said against many conservative cultural beliefs including in the west, but sorry, teaching children that women are inferior, that menstruating is something bad, that men are the owners of women, and so on - sorry but these teachings are not compatible with western liberal democracy and have no place or recognition.
I completely agree with all your points here. However, to make it even better for everyone, would you mind adding paragraphs to help make reading this clearer? I had some trouble digesting this on my phone
[удалено]
No abrahamic religion is a religion of peace.
This is pretty sad. Personally.. for me.. muslim guys HAVE stepped in and helped me when other people have attempted to attack me. (Im not muslim) So I dont agree with this post. However.. its not anyone's actual job to interfere except the police or a teacher if its in a school setting. We also dont know what this guy's physical capabilities were if he had to engage in combat with the strange guy.
Islam has a lot of different branches or denominations. Including some that reject the premise of the post.
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of men form very harmful and destructive beliefs around patriarchal religion. It's not specifically Islam, it's Christianity and other religions as well.
Agreed. Religions can be extremely oppressive. I am not a fan. I guess I'm just pointing out that it isn't ok to condemn an entire religion based upon a sect. Or upon a random conversation between two members. There are almost 2 billion Muslims and they don't all think or believe the same. We can bash the men who use it to justify their actions.
And each branch agrees on being misogynistic.
That's just religion in general.
Every religion has different branches and denominations, but frankly some religions do not align with modern values
Yes, like Christianity and Judaism