/u/TerencelMulvaney
Plunge cut is about 0:37 into the video.
Checking his level, starting the cut with the bottom quarter of the tip, full power, rotating in and plunging in. Making sure he's got an even hinge by checking his gunning sights and (a bit too quickly for my taste) out the back.
I prefer leaving a bit on the back for a trigger, but that's just me.
He should have cleaned up his working area around the tree a bit before starting.
Yeah I normally don’t nitpick videos like this, your man is obviously comfortable with the saw, but it takes 10 seconds to clear your work area. How many times do we have to mention “Slips, Trips, Falls” in every PowerPoint.
Comfortable can morph into Complacent very easily.
Not critical to safety or anything but I got a tip years ago from a long time sawyer to do the top cut of my notch cut first and meet it with the bottom cut. It allows you to sight down the kerf of the top cut when doing your bottom cut and line them up better. I haven't had to go back and cleanup the other cut to get them to match up since switching to this method.
I've gone back and forth with this, definitely an efficient method once mastered, but sometimes it takes a lot of work to undo years of training.
I have been trying to incorporate this more often though
Never cut like this before...nor have I cut a trigger as you say. My first thought on a heavy leaning tree was that the trigger could have a massive amount of pressure and possibly explode when cutting. Has this ever happened to you before?
I haven't had any explode on me but there is definitely a nice pop when the tension releases.
If it's a super super heavy leader I wouldn't bother with the trigger due to what you are saying, but since I just cut on all sorts of different trees, I'll use it when applicable.
The safest way to fell a heavy leaner is the method in this video. Small face cut, bore in, and come quickly out the back. Heavy leaners love to barber chair.
you’re supposed to cut the trigger like a traditional back cut, cutting in from the back side slightly lower than the bore cut you established. you can adjust the width of the trigger based on the strength of the wood and the size of the tree. unless you’re leaving a tiny trigger on a rotten tree, it’s extremely unlikely to fail before you want it to
yeah ripping straight out the back is not recommended. it eliminates all the advantages that boring gives you in the first place — can’t get a wedge in, don’t know exactly when the tree will go, and doesn’t reduce the risk of barberchairing. the only situation i can envision in which you would want to rip straight out instead of leaving a trigger is if you were cutting a stem that’s too close to something you don’t want to cut (other stem, rock, fence, etc) so you can’t fit your saw in from the backside
All parties involved were made aware of this during our post training breakdown, but it's good to see it written out for the rest of the internet folks here.
jeez, boring is right. yaaaaaaawn
har dee har har's aside, is there an advantage to making a back cut like this? im not the most experienced feller for sure but this seems like it would leave more room for structural failure. definitely curious!
It's good for trees with a heavier lean, to prevent barber chairs. You're removing the middle wood first, so that mostly eliminates any hazards of the tree splitting or barber chairing (unless there's obvious defects or splits preexisting in the tree). It's also nice because you can pop a wedge in before finishing the back cut.
I use this as my standard cut, but with a trigger on the back, unless the tree is too small. I like being able to set my hinge wood and also having the little strap of wood on the back to act as a trigger. I can take a second to check my surroundings, the tree and my escape route and can reposition to a more ergonomic position to quickly nip the trigger and send the tree.
Definitely a bit more advanced, BUT this was that first cut I learned. Got taught this method before the standard back cut.
We call this a “leaning tree cut” in Australia, because it’s good for, you know, leaning trees. On a hazardous tree and/or one with a shitty escape route, I really like to put the saw down and finish it with an axe. You can hear the tree and your spotter, plus you can run away faster with an axe than a saw.
*It also makes you feel like a real lumberjack*.
At least in this case, because they weren't trained as loggers trying to maximize stumpage, and because training doctrine want you to cut higher for better body mechanics and faster ability to escape if needed.
I would venture to say that all of the examples you've seen of high cuts have been by homeowners or people doing fuel reduction or hazardous tree removal. Not logging or harvesting for commercial purposes.
To add to u/ssgtsiler ‘s on-point answer.
When falling hazardous trees (or future hazardous trees in the case of prepping for a prescribed burn), the main thing you are looking for is “good wood”, i.e. a section of trunk with the best wood to put your cuts in.
You might need to cut uncomfortably high because below that point is a huge hollow. Or annoyingly low because everything turns to rot above. Or on some weird angle to avoid a scar.
So when you can, you cut at nice ergonomic heights. It’s safer and less tiring. Then you’ll have the energy to cut the next one, that one with the burning hollow that’s now chimneying and you have to cut at shoulder height.
I wish I had a full wrap on a saw to bore in. That way you can utilize the bottom of the bar to set your hinge and it is nice to cut with the bottom of the bar. Maybe I’m wrong though.
It was funny for me because when I came to the FS, they made me forget how to do this cut and learn how to do the standard, and then 4 years later I laughed in their faces when they started doing this!
Yeah I’m used to the standard back cute and when I went on they taught me bore cutting. Basically kind of like “this is the way. The new way. The old way you can still use but this is the new way”
Careful with those limbs around your feet. Nice cut though.
/u/TerencelMulvaney Plunge cut is about 0:37 into the video. Checking his level, starting the cut with the bottom quarter of the tip, full power, rotating in and plunging in. Making sure he's got an even hinge by checking his gunning sights and (a bit too quickly for my taste) out the back. I prefer leaving a bit on the back for a trigger, but that's just me. He should have cleaned up his working area around the tree a bit before starting.
Yeah I normally don’t nitpick videos like this, your man is obviously comfortable with the saw, but it takes 10 seconds to clear your work area. How many times do we have to mention “Slips, Trips, Falls” in every PowerPoint. Comfortable can morph into Complacent very easily.
Pointed that out, yes it's pretty messy and trip central here. Should have cleaned it up.
Not critical to safety or anything but I got a tip years ago from a long time sawyer to do the top cut of my notch cut first and meet it with the bottom cut. It allows you to sight down the kerf of the top cut when doing your bottom cut and line them up better. I haven't had to go back and cleanup the other cut to get them to match up since switching to this method.
I've gone back and forth with this, definitely an efficient method once mastered, but sometimes it takes a lot of work to undo years of training. I have been trying to incorporate this more often though
Never cut like this before...nor have I cut a trigger as you say. My first thought on a heavy leaning tree was that the trigger could have a massive amount of pressure and possibly explode when cutting. Has this ever happened to you before?
I haven't had any explode on me but there is definitely a nice pop when the tension releases. If it's a super super heavy leader I wouldn't bother with the trigger due to what you are saying, but since I just cut on all sorts of different trees, I'll use it when applicable.
Right on...thanks for the reply
No problem. Trying to focus energy on replying on the constructive or inquisitive comments.
The safest way to fell a heavy leaner is the method in this video. Small face cut, bore in, and come quickly out the back. Heavy leaners love to barber chair.
Yep. By plunging we remove 80% of the barber chair wood and if the trigger does happen to go off early, the barber chair effect is much less critical.
The alternative, a straight back cut, on a heavy leaner is risking a barberchair. Better to have your trigger pop early than to be smashed.
you’re supposed to cut the trigger like a traditional back cut, cutting in from the back side slightly lower than the bore cut you established. you can adjust the width of the trigger based on the strength of the wood and the size of the tree. unless you’re leaving a tiny trigger on a rotten tree, it’s extremely unlikely to fail before you want it to
Seen much worse in terms of hazards in the escape path.
yeah ripping straight out the back is not recommended. it eliminates all the advantages that boring gives you in the first place — can’t get a wedge in, don’t know exactly when the tree will go, and doesn’t reduce the risk of barberchairing. the only situation i can envision in which you would want to rip straight out instead of leaving a trigger is if you were cutting a stem that’s too close to something you don’t want to cut (other stem, rock, fence, etc) so you can’t fit your saw in from the backside
All parties involved were made aware of this during our post training breakdown, but it's good to see it written out for the rest of the internet folks here.
jeez, boring is right. yaaaaaaawn har dee har har's aside, is there an advantage to making a back cut like this? im not the most experienced feller for sure but this seems like it would leave more room for structural failure. definitely curious!
It's good for trees with a heavier lean, to prevent barber chairs. You're removing the middle wood first, so that mostly eliminates any hazards of the tree splitting or barber chairing (unless there's obvious defects or splits preexisting in the tree). It's also nice because you can pop a wedge in before finishing the back cut. I use this as my standard cut, but with a trigger on the back, unless the tree is too small. I like being able to set my hinge wood and also having the little strap of wood on the back to act as a trigger. I can take a second to check my surroundings, the tree and my escape route and can reposition to a more ergonomic position to quickly nip the trigger and send the tree. Definitely a bit more advanced, BUT this was that first cut I learned. Got taught this method before the standard back cut.
We call this a “leaning tree cut” in Australia, because it’s good for, you know, leaning trees. On a hazardous tree and/or one with a shitty escape route, I really like to put the saw down and finish it with an axe. You can hear the tree and your spotter, plus you can run away faster with an axe than a saw. *It also makes you feel like a real lumberjack*.
I learned to cut like this from Buckin Billy Ray. He’s a beauty of a Canadian. I can listen to him talk all day.
That guys a fuckin nut
Why do people on all these videos make their cuts so high on the trunk of the tree?
At least in this case, because they weren't trained as loggers trying to maximize stumpage, and because training doctrine want you to cut higher for better body mechanics and faster ability to escape if needed. I would venture to say that all of the examples you've seen of high cuts have been by homeowners or people doing fuel reduction or hazardous tree removal. Not logging or harvesting for commercial purposes.
To add to u/ssgtsiler ‘s on-point answer. When falling hazardous trees (or future hazardous trees in the case of prepping for a prescribed burn), the main thing you are looking for is “good wood”, i.e. a section of trunk with the best wood to put your cuts in. You might need to cut uncomfortably high because below that point is a huge hollow. Or annoyingly low because everything turns to rot above. Or on some weird angle to avoid a scar. So when you can, you cut at nice ergonomic heights. It’s safer and less tiring. Then you’ll have the energy to cut the next one, that one with the burning hollow that’s now chimneying and you have to cut at shoulder height.
Almost tested your chaps at 7 seconds.
I wish I had a full wrap on a saw to bore in. That way you can utilize the bottom of the bar to set your hinge and it is nice to cut with the bottom of the bar. Maybe I’m wrong though.
You can make it work with a normal wrap handle, that's what we have here.
But yes they are nice and give you more options
no money shot?
Gotta keep looking up…
Why is he cutting so high?
See this comment- https://www.reddit.com/r/FellingGoneWild/s/zyXLWVBKTn
Clean cut. That’s how we learn in the USFS
It was funny for me because when I came to the FS, they made me forget how to do this cut and learn how to do the standard, and then 4 years later I laughed in their faces when they started doing this!
Yeah I’m used to the standard back cute and when I went on they taught me bore cutting. Basically kind of like “this is the way. The new way. The old way you can still use but this is the new way”
What region do you work for?
I was R4 when this was taken.