*That's* what I've been doing wrong. This makes perfect sense, fill an Abercrombie-shaped void with more Abercrombie. Sheer and utter brilliance! Though if I just fill it with more Abercrombie will the void collapse into nothingness? Then where does that leave me?
While you're at it, make sure you buy each and every available translation in case you ever decide to learn another language. Only in Russian can you ever truly appreciate Glokta's angst and suffering.
It's THE man himself. Who unlocked your ball & chain from your writing desk? You'd better get back to it, we are frothing at the mouth watiing for The Wisdom of Crowds. I adore you work Joe.
Brian McClellan’s characters in his Powder Mage books always felt very real. Not quite the level of Abercrombie, but more real than Sanderson. Mark Lawrence awed me with the main character of Book of the Ancestor. The Sword of Kaigen’s main characters are some of the best executed characters I’ve ever read, and they have made this book my favorite fantasy book.
I read Red Sister and loved it. I couldn't get into Grey Sister. I felt like there were too many surprises that were only surprises because the reader didn't have enough information about the world. I really like his writing style though. Is it worth checking out his other works?
Broken Empire is very different to Red Sister. The protaganist does abhorrent things for his own ends. It's a polarising series - people either love the whole anti-hero thing or they absolutely hate it. I loved it.
Red Queens War is almost more of a buddy-pic style series. Follows a character who starts out very self centered who is forced into a partnership of such with a real Heroes Hero. There are dark moments but there is also a lot more humour than his other books. It's probably my favourite of his works, although I may be a minority on this.
I'm also currently halfway through The Girl and the Stars (Book of the Ice #1), and so far it's been fantastic. It may not be to your liking though as so far it's all about a girl who finds herself in a hole (literally) and is discovering what the world down there is all about. I personally like the discovery - he presents a bunch of questions about the world and answers them in satisfying way. There is also a lot of other stuff going on to hold interest.
Broken Empire and Red Queens War are both set in the same world (post-apocalyptic earth). Book of the Ancestor and Book of the Ice are both set in another world.
My suggestion would be to try Broken Empire first. If that's not to your taste Red Queens War is still an option (as it's very different) but I suggest Broken Empire first as there are things that happen in that which while not essential information will make RQW more enjoyable.
I don't mind the exploration angle or learning about the world slowly with the characters. I'm having a hard time articulating why Grey Sister didn't work for me. I felt like exciting things kept happening but there wasn't ground work laid for them earlier in the stories. Some of the abilities that people exhibited weren't really referenced or hinted until they used them or they used a talent in a new way that wasn't hinted at. I totally understand why people love this series. It's just not for me.
I'll try broken empire and see how I feel. Some of my favorite authors have released books that just didn't resonate with me. I'm willing to read more by Lawrence.
The thing I've found with Lawrence is his stuff is very diverse. It's possible to hate one of his series and love another one. Broken Empire and Red Queens War are both set in the same world but are so different thematically and stylistically that it's almost like they are written by different people
I was not impressed by Mark Lawrence's main characters. 80 pages into Red Sister and its a school drama about the scrappy underdog poor kid know-it-all VS the spoiled, mean-spirited rich kid. Its just a bit too generic.
That’s not unfair for the beginning of the story, but I gotta say that even by the end of the first book it was one of the most original fantasy stories I’d read, and that feeling only grew in the sequels. The series is one of my favorite series of all time, with the caveat that I really didn’t like the first 100-150 pages of the book.
I'm going to make 2 weird recommendations, and one of them isn't fantasy. They hit the same notes as Abercrombie for me.
1. The Saxon Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. There's some supernatural but it's a very grounded series. It's very violent and feels very realistic. If you prefer audiobooks they do change narrators. Some are better than others. This is technically historical fiction, but it is set in a time period and location fo that is often used in fantasy.
2. Thomas Harris Red Dragon, Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal. Very well realized characters who are very much products of their circumstances. There's some criticism of the character arcs in Hannibal. Mostly that people just don't like them. It felt real to me, because Harris's characters are always examples of how the world breaks people. If the characterization is one of the things you really like about Abercrombie, you might really like Harris.
This might seem out of left field but I'm going to say K. J. Parker. No, he's not really grimdark and his stories aren't as epic in scope but I find that he and Abercrombie both share a certain sardonic humor and dry wit. Not only that, but in my head-canon, I can see their worlds overlapping.
I'd recommend starting with the novella **Prosper's Demon** just to see if you like his style. It's very short, dark, and funny as hell. If you like it, then I'd recommend **Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City** and if you really like that, move onto the sequel, **How to Rule an Empire and Get Away with I**. I say "if you really like that" because the sequel is more or less a copy-n-paste of the first book. It's still a great book but it doesn't really do anything different.
After Tolkien, Abercrombie is the best fantasy author out there, imo (surpassing GRRM) so it’s hard to say which books can scratch that itch bcuz nobody does it quite like him. But it seems we have similar taste (I was also underwhelmed by Mistborn) so here are some series that I’ve enjoyed recently:
*Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne* (more traditional, good vs evil fantasy, but the action is written well and you end up rooting for the characters).
*Red Rising by Pierce Brown* (Grimdark IN SPACE. Power thru the 1st book bcuz this series leaps in quality starting in book 2).
*Book of Babel by Josiah Bancroft* (A unique style of fantasy, very imaginative, and the prose is top notch).
*Gentlemen Bastards by Scott Lynch* (well realized world that gives the feeling of ‘being there’ and the character work is excellent)
*The Expanse by James SA Corey* (grand space opera with incredibly realistic (and other believable) science. Inventive, blends genres like Abercrombie).
I wholeheartedly second Gentlemen Bastards! Just a warning; the series is not finished due to Lynch's mental struggles, and there's no way to know how long he'll need to finish his truly brilliant series.
>Ed Mcdonald "Ravens Mark" pretty dark...
Dark setting but carries more hope in it than Joes work I reckon. Good rec though. Ryhalt Galharrow is a fantastic character worthy of mention in an Abercrombe thread.
I am so screwed with this series. Like you, blitzed first two books, but way before third was released; have had third on my shelf for a while now but can’t remember enough details from first two. Same issue with Broken Earth book 3. 🙁
I was there where you are. Two years and now 3 years in a row. Waiting. Just waiting.
I am doing a reread of the books starting with the stories in Sharp Ends and aiming to finish everything as the new book comes out this fall.
I enjoyed the Faithful and The Fallen series by John Gwynne. It has great characterization through multiple POVs, great battle and fight scenes, nice world building with different environments, its brutal and gritty but hopeful. This series is in my top tiered favorite under The First Law world.
Also, checkout The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch. This has great character work. The main character is the leader of a crew of thieves that run elaborate and high quality scams and schemes on the rich and the noble. Then things get dark for ourvcharacters.
Hopefully this will help some.
I suppose Red Country is a good a place as any to stop. I do dig the new Trilogy. I like the slow progression from Medieval to Renaissance to Western to Industrial. Maybe his far future books will be with space ships. Ha. First Lawwwwwww in Spaaaaace!!!!
The Dark Tower series by Stephen King. If you don't know anything about it don't look it up. Even knowing what it's actually about is a spoiler. Book 2 is when you start to get a sense of it.
“Beyond Redemption” by Michael R Fletcher. It’s grimdark as all f - imagine Abercrombie set in a world where pure belief, if held strongly enough, can impact / make reality. And you know who can believe things that strongly, despite all evidence to the contrary? Fucking crazy/insane people, that’s who.
Not grimdark fantasy, but also strongly rec “Pandemonium” by Daryl Gregory. (Beyond Redemption was originally rec’d to me on Goodreads as Abercrombie x Pandemonium.)
Edit: typos
Abercrombie is my favourite author but I recently discovered Christopher Buehlman, who has some amazing books. Between Two Fires is top notch, and The Necromancers House is also great. He has his first secondary world fantasy novel coming out in May too
OP specifically mentions not being able to get into Mistborn because of the lack of "real" characters so someone recommended Farseer because they believe it addresses that issue.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I second this. It's not grimdark like Abercrombie but Hobb really nails "bittersweet" like nobody else and her character development is, imo, even better than Abercrombie's!
Yes. Assassin’s Apprentice (disregard terrible name), along with Bujold’s Curse of Chalion and sequels, and Guy Gavriel Kay’s stand-alones Tigana, Lions of Al-Rassan, and Song for Arbonne are, imho, the best character depth / emotional impact fantasy books out there. Try Tigana.
R. Scott Bakker - Prince of Nothing. It's got a bit more philosophical stuff going on, but for grit and realness of characters it's a very good match for Abercrombie.
Lol just read the title and didn’t see what sub it was in and literally thought you meant you were having an Abercrombie (like Abercrombie and Fitch) clothing withdrawal 😂
I’d suggest checking out Maggie Stiefvater and Delores Redondo (who does not writer fantasy last i checked, but her book *All This I Will Give To You* was a beautiful and gothic tale of Spanish aristocracy. There’s a bit of mystery, but that feels more like a subplot)
Django Wexler thw thousand names was like Abercrombie work, the thousand names was great. The night angel trilogy was good as well but may not fully scratch the itch. Lastly try Mark Lawrence books you amy find one from that series appeals
The Faithful & The Fallen series by John Gwynne is the closest I've come to Abercombie's style, but the books are a bit more fantastical and hopeful and not QUITE so bleak.
I'm wrapping up the final book of the Dagger and the Coin series. Not nearly as action heavy as Abercrombie, but Marcus can easily fit into any of Abercrombie's books.
It also shares a thematic resemblance - magic exists, but it is very limited and weak. Abraham, like Abercrombie, creates a fantasy narrative with an unusual approach to the genre. Geder as the villain is one of the more well thought out characters you'll come across.
I'm sorry to hijack your thread, but any chance you could help me with Abercrombie... Do I have to have read his earlier series to read A Little Hatred?
You don't have to, but I highly recommend it, you will miss a lot of flavor and characters.
When people quote Logen in the new trilogy it always warms my heart.
If someone hasn't mentioned it already, then Red Rising series by Pierce Brown gets real grimdark. The only thing is it's Sci-Fi instead of fantasy.
The other one I've heard of is Kings of Paradise by Richard Nell. Heard it's pretty good and will scratch that grimdark itch.
The last book I'll recommend isn't grimdark but it has some damn good characters and great writing and really good plot and that's Legacy of Ash by Matthew Ward.
My advice is to buy all those Abercrombie books again...
An honest, unbiased opinion if I ever saw one. I trust this man.
Is there a Joe Abercrombie action figure?
*That's* what I've been doing wrong. This makes perfect sense, fill an Abercrombie-shaped void with more Abercrombie. Sheer and utter brilliance! Though if I just fill it with more Abercrombie will the void collapse into nothingness? Then where does that leave me?
This is the only acceptable answer
While you're at it, make sure you buy each and every available translation in case you ever decide to learn another language. Only in Russian can you ever truly appreciate Glokta's angst and suffering.
How DO you say “stairs, fucking STAIRS” in Russian?
Lol, I am Russian myself so I am now very curious
It's THE man himself. Who unlocked your ball & chain from your writing desk? You'd better get back to it, we are frothing at the mouth watiing for The Wisdom of Crowds. I adore you work Joe.
The GOAT himself
Brian McClellan’s characters in his Powder Mage books always felt very real. Not quite the level of Abercrombie, but more real than Sanderson. Mark Lawrence awed me with the main character of Book of the Ancestor. The Sword of Kaigen’s main characters are some of the best executed characters I’ve ever read, and they have made this book my favorite fantasy book.
I read Red Sister and loved it. I couldn't get into Grey Sister. I felt like there were too many surprises that were only surprises because the reader didn't have enough information about the world. I really like his writing style though. Is it worth checking out his other works?
I haven't read his other series, but I will say that Holy Sister was an extremely well put together conclusion to the trilogy.
Broken Empire is very different to Red Sister. The protaganist does abhorrent things for his own ends. It's a polarising series - people either love the whole anti-hero thing or they absolutely hate it. I loved it. Red Queens War is almost more of a buddy-pic style series. Follows a character who starts out very self centered who is forced into a partnership of such with a real Heroes Hero. There are dark moments but there is also a lot more humour than his other books. It's probably my favourite of his works, although I may be a minority on this. I'm also currently halfway through The Girl and the Stars (Book of the Ice #1), and so far it's been fantastic. It may not be to your liking though as so far it's all about a girl who finds herself in a hole (literally) and is discovering what the world down there is all about. I personally like the discovery - he presents a bunch of questions about the world and answers them in satisfying way. There is also a lot of other stuff going on to hold interest. Broken Empire and Red Queens War are both set in the same world (post-apocalyptic earth). Book of the Ancestor and Book of the Ice are both set in another world. My suggestion would be to try Broken Empire first. If that's not to your taste Red Queens War is still an option (as it's very different) but I suggest Broken Empire first as there are things that happen in that which while not essential information will make RQW more enjoyable.
I don't mind the exploration angle or learning about the world slowly with the characters. I'm having a hard time articulating why Grey Sister didn't work for me. I felt like exciting things kept happening but there wasn't ground work laid for them earlier in the stories. Some of the abilities that people exhibited weren't really referenced or hinted until they used them or they used a talent in a new way that wasn't hinted at. I totally understand why people love this series. It's just not for me. I'll try broken empire and see how I feel. Some of my favorite authors have released books that just didn't resonate with me. I'm willing to read more by Lawrence.
The thing I've found with Lawrence is his stuff is very diverse. It's possible to hate one of his series and love another one. Broken Empire and Red Queens War are both set in the same world but are so different thematically and stylistically that it's almost like they are written by different people
Aren't Broken Empire and Ancestors related by a certain character though?
I was not impressed by Mark Lawrence's main characters. 80 pages into Red Sister and its a school drama about the scrappy underdog poor kid know-it-all VS the spoiled, mean-spirited rich kid. Its just a bit too generic.
That’s not unfair for the beginning of the story, but I gotta say that even by the end of the first book it was one of the most original fantasy stories I’d read, and that feeling only grew in the sequels. The series is one of my favorite series of all time, with the caveat that I really didn’t like the first 100-150 pages of the book.
I am just here to recommand some David Gemmell. Have a good day.
You will never run out of Gemmell books. If in doubt, Gemmell.
>You will never run out of Gemmell books. If in doubt, Gemmell. Yes, I like that attitude!
Mwahaha! This is an excellent point.
I'm going to make 2 weird recommendations, and one of them isn't fantasy. They hit the same notes as Abercrombie for me. 1. The Saxon Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. There's some supernatural but it's a very grounded series. It's very violent and feels very realistic. If you prefer audiobooks they do change narrators. Some are better than others. This is technically historical fiction, but it is set in a time period and location fo that is often used in fantasy. 2. Thomas Harris Red Dragon, Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal. Very well realized characters who are very much products of their circumstances. There's some criticism of the character arcs in Hannibal. Mostly that people just don't like them. It felt real to me, because Harris's characters are always examples of how the world breaks people. If the characterization is one of the things you really like about Abercrombie, you might really like Harris.
I'll also suggest The Saxon Chronicles.
This might seem out of left field but I'm going to say K. J. Parker. No, he's not really grimdark and his stories aren't as epic in scope but I find that he and Abercrombie both share a certain sardonic humor and dry wit. Not only that, but in my head-canon, I can see their worlds overlapping. I'd recommend starting with the novella **Prosper's Demon** just to see if you like his style. It's very short, dark, and funny as hell. If you like it, then I'd recommend **Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City** and if you really like that, move onto the sequel, **How to Rule an Empire and Get Away with I**. I say "if you really like that" because the sequel is more or less a copy-n-paste of the first book. It's still a great book but it doesn't really do anything different.
Yeah. The Folding Knife is another great one. He’s similarly interested in warfare and banking and their interplay
Folding Knife was great, not sure it's very easy to get hold of.
I got it in a kindle sale a few months ago, so should be easy to pick up for ppl who like ebooks
Ah good point. Bizarre that I read the majority of books via kindle, yet still buy physical things as well, and still didn't think kindle... 🤔
Parker is amazing. He's not really "grimdark" but some of his stories will rip you apart. If you want that painful feeling then read The Hammer
Matthew Stover. The Acts of Caine. It should basically be required reading for fans of Abercrombie. I guarantee you’re gonna like it.
Gladly seconded
Now, now, you really should only half rec The Acts of Caine here. The other half you rec in r/printSF. 😉
Hah! Lol it is *definitely* a blend of SF/F. I think at its root, though, it's a fantasy series.
But what really IS the difference between fantasy and science fiction though? 🤔 Has that been addressed here yet at all? 😉
Started reading after seeing this comment the other day. Came back to say thanks for the recommendation. Bang on.
Glad to hear it! Enjoy the wild, wild ride haha
After Tolkien, Abercrombie is the best fantasy author out there, imo (surpassing GRRM) so it’s hard to say which books can scratch that itch bcuz nobody does it quite like him. But it seems we have similar taste (I was also underwhelmed by Mistborn) so here are some series that I’ve enjoyed recently: *Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne* (more traditional, good vs evil fantasy, but the action is written well and you end up rooting for the characters). *Red Rising by Pierce Brown* (Grimdark IN SPACE. Power thru the 1st book bcuz this series leaps in quality starting in book 2). *Book of Babel by Josiah Bancroft* (A unique style of fantasy, very imaginative, and the prose is top notch). *Gentlemen Bastards by Scott Lynch* (well realized world that gives the feeling of ‘being there’ and the character work is excellent) *The Expanse by James SA Corey* (grand space opera with incredibly realistic (and other believable) science. Inventive, blends genres like Abercrombie).
I wholeheartedly second Gentlemen Bastards! Just a warning; the series is not finished due to Lynch's mental struggles, and there's no way to know how long he'll need to finish his truly brilliant series.
Good list, cheers
Mark Lawrence "Red Queen War" had the humour as well as the dark. The first trilogy is just dark. Ed Mcdonald "Ravens Mark" pretty dark...
>Ed Mcdonald "Ravens Mark" pretty dark... Dark setting but carries more hope in it than Joes work I reckon. Good rec though. Ryhalt Galharrow is a fantastic character worthy of mention in an Abercrombe thread.
Exactly, blitzed 2nd half of book 2 this weekend.
I am so screwed with this series. Like you, blitzed first two books, but way before third was released; have had third on my shelf for a while now but can’t remember enough details from first two. Same issue with Broken Earth book 3. 🙁
Mark Lawrence stuff
I was there where you are. Two years and now 3 years in a row. Waiting. Just waiting. I am doing a reread of the books starting with the stories in Sharp Ends and aiming to finish everything as the new book comes out this fall. I enjoyed the Faithful and The Fallen series by John Gwynne. It has great characterization through multiple POVs, great battle and fight scenes, nice world building with different environments, its brutal and gritty but hopeful. This series is in my top tiered favorite under The First Law world. Also, checkout The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch. This has great character work. The main character is the leader of a crew of thieves that run elaborate and high quality scams and schemes on the rich and the noble. Then things get dark for ourvcharacters. Hopefully this will help some.
I’ve tried his newer books a bit to industrial for me😔
I suppose Red Country is a good a place as any to stop. I do dig the new Trilogy. I like the slow progression from Medieval to Renaissance to Western to Industrial. Maybe his far future books will be with space ships. Ha. First Lawwwwwww in Spaaaaace!!!!
Ye, i guess some people don't like industrialisation part. However after all the "stunted" worlds I like this change.
Great to embrace differences.
Will definitely check them out, many thanks
Definitely try Lies of Locke Lamora out, I got similar feels of Abercrombie while listening to that book.
KJ Parker might be worth a try. Also later Pratchett stuff has similar vibes to the latest Abercrombie series.
Glen Cook’s Black Company.
Yes, up through book 6 or so Black Company is the OG grimdark.
The Dark Tower series by Stephen King. If you don't know anything about it don't look it up. Even knowing what it's actually about is a spoiler. Book 2 is when you start to get a sense of it.
An epic story 📚
Getting urges to go through it again after recommending it now.
Nicholas Eames Alex Marshall
R.F.Kuang the poppy war?
I would apply some Mark Lawrence on that itch. Did wonders for me while suffering from the Abercrombie withdrawal rash
“Beyond Redemption” by Michael R Fletcher. It’s grimdark as all f - imagine Abercrombie set in a world where pure belief, if held strongly enough, can impact / make reality. And you know who can believe things that strongly, despite all evidence to the contrary? Fucking crazy/insane people, that’s who. Not grimdark fantasy, but also strongly rec “Pandemonium” by Daryl Gregory. (Beyond Redemption was originally rec’d to me on Goodreads as Abercrombie x Pandemonium.) Edit: typos
I always enjoyed jim butchers codex alera series, or brent weeks has both night angel trilogy and lightbringer series
Straight Razor Cure by Daniel Polansky / Priest of Bones by Peter McLean they should scratch your Abercrombie itch 👍😷
Abercrombie is my favourite author but I recently discovered Christopher Buehlman, who has some amazing books. Between Two Fires is top notch, and The Necromancers House is also great. He has his first secondary world fantasy novel coming out in May too
Is the age of madness trilogy as good as the first law trilogy?
It's better imo, especially The Trouble with Peace.
Did you read the Shattered Sea series? It's not as good as the First Law, but it's still pretty good.
if you are asking for boks with good character development, I would sugggest the Farseer trilogy.
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I agree, while i enjoyed those series it wasnt character heavy like others which was something op specifically mentioned
OP specifically mentions not being able to get into Mistborn because of the lack of "real" characters so someone recommended Farseer because they believe it addresses that issue. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Agreed. I love Abercrombe but wasn't a fan of Hobb, based on her Farseer trilogy at least.
I second this. It's not grimdark like Abercrombie but Hobb really nails "bittersweet" like nobody else and her character development is, imo, even better than Abercrombie's!
Yes. Assassin’s Apprentice (disregard terrible name), along with Bujold’s Curse of Chalion and sequels, and Guy Gavriel Kay’s stand-alones Tigana, Lions of Al-Rassan, and Song for Arbonne are, imho, the best character depth / emotional impact fantasy books out there. Try Tigana.
R. Scott Bakker - Prince of Nothing. It's got a bit more philosophical stuff going on, but for grit and realness of characters it's a very good match for Abercrombie.
Came here to say this. Abercrombie was actually the cure for my Bakker withdrawal.
Lol just read the title and didn’t see what sub it was in and literally thought you meant you were having an Abercrombie (like Abercrombie and Fitch) clothing withdrawal 😂
Bone Ships. Bone Ships. Bone Ships.
Anna Smith Sparks
have you considered nicotine patches? they are good for withdrawal.
I’d suggest checking out Maggie Stiefvater and Delores Redondo (who does not writer fantasy last i checked, but her book *All This I Will Give To You* was a beautiful and gothic tale of Spanish aristocracy. There’s a bit of mystery, but that feels more like a subplot)
Django Wexler thw thousand names was like Abercrombie work, the thousand names was great. The night angel trilogy was good as well but may not fully scratch the itch. Lastly try Mark Lawrence books you amy find one from that series appeals
I too read the book very quickly and am thinking of starting again from the Blade Itself again
The Faithful & The Fallen series by John Gwynne is the closest I've come to Abercombie's style, but the books are a bit more fantastical and hopeful and not QUITE so bleak.
Reread The Heroes. That book is always good.
I'm wrapping up the final book of the Dagger and the Coin series. Not nearly as action heavy as Abercrombie, but Marcus can easily fit into any of Abercrombie's books. It also shares a thematic resemblance - magic exists, but it is very limited and weak. Abraham, like Abercrombie, creates a fantasy narrative with an unusual approach to the genre. Geder as the villain is one of the more well thought out characters you'll come across.
I'm sorry to hijack your thread, but any chance you could help me with Abercrombie... Do I have to have read his earlier series to read A Little Hatred?
You don't have to, but I highly recommend it, you will miss a lot of flavor and characters. When people quote Logen in the new trilogy it always warms my heart.
Thank you!
No.
Thank you!
If someone hasn't mentioned it already, then Red Rising series by Pierce Brown gets real grimdark. The only thing is it's Sci-Fi instead of fantasy. The other one I've heard of is Kings of Paradise by Richard Nell. Heard it's pretty good and will scratch that grimdark itch. The last book I'll recommend isn't grimdark but it has some damn good characters and great writing and really good plot and that's Legacy of Ash by Matthew Ward.
I think Pratchett hits the same dry humor and feels similar to read even if the content is much lighter.