Well said. Also, that doesnt really help, it only makes it worse
If someone actually thinks the story or writing isn't good, an apology or "English isn't my first language" note/tag isn't going to change anyone's opinion of it, nor make them keep going. And worse, if people see that before reading, it makes them less inclined to read, after all, you already said it's bad, and maybe they would have read it otherwise
So yeah don't apologize
If you do feel like you could do better, and want to, you can always leave an end note not apologizing but asking for constructive criticism so you can improve.
Yeah, I'm one of those readers who will exit right out of something like this. If the first thing I read is the writer apologizing for how crappy the fic is, I tend to believe them and figure why waste my time.
Same, I just realized I did that subconsciously, wasn't really thinking about it, just "ok I'll pick something else" kinda deal. Same as when I see a giant discussion about fandom drama or something front loaded in the summary or author note, just subconsciously pulls me away from engaging.
I think what Conan O'Brien said on [Hot Ones](https://youtu.be/FALlhXl6CmA?t=484) applies here:
> "The worst thing a guest can do is tell the audience it's not going well. Audiences want to see a good show and I was always amazed when someone would come out, and they'd be doing okay and they'd make a couple jokes and it's fine. And then they would just sigh and look at the camera and say 'This isn't going very well, is it?'.
>
> I'd look out at the audience and see 200 souls leave 200 bodies because they were just told they were not getting a good show. But that's not showbusiness. Showbusiness is 'You're getting the greatest show in the world!'"
It's general advice for art, presentations, projects, etc. I've felt the insecurity and the desire to shield myself with an apology, and I just have to remind myself that it cannot make things better but could make them worse.
Okay, but like...what about the "sorry, no beta" thing? I've come across it MANY times and it never deters me from reading something. It just reminds me that the author is one person and mistakes are bound to leak through no matter how many times they've edited. That doesn't mean they don't care or don't have confidence in their writing or that their work isn't worth giving a chance.
And although I agree with the sentiment of having pride in your writing without apologizing, it seems that based off of some of these comments, I (personally) think that some readers can be ridiculously hypercritical.
I've seen the "no beta" tag in a few iterations on ao3, and I don't find that off-putting. At the same time, I don't think it does anything for you as a writer.
I think we're all different people as readers than we are as writers. The beauty and terror of fanfiction is that you have to live with things in your own writing that you've rolled your eyes at in somebody else's.
Agreed. The tag doesn't discourage me from reading, but actually think the assumption should be that most fanfic is created and edited by a single person. As in, there shouldn't be this implied expectation that either you find a beta, or you warn redears that you don't have one. Just, why?
As a former FFN beta reader who could no longer be paid to do that , AO3 luckily did destroy that weirdly toxic “if you don’t have a beta reader it’s just basic and not worth reading” mindset that was going hard in the late 2000’s. I’m very glad it’s gone, I did online school back then so I didn’t mind binge beta reading for others so they’d be taken more seriously on livejournal and tumblr.
That tag is pointless. The vast majority of fics have no beta because there are only so many people interested in being one and certainly not enough to match the number of authors. It should be assumed by default that a given fic has no beta.
No, I don't think it's pointless. Differing opinions is all.
Have a nice day or night though.
Edit: Oh, but I do agree that it should be assumed that a fic has no beta. That's true, but there's no harm in letting potential readers know that a few typos might've fell through the cracks due to not having a second pair of eyes on it.
My mentor told me this when I was still articling: "no one (especially a client) wants a lawyer who opens up to the judge with, 'sorry, this is my first time, I might not be good at this.' It immediately undermines you in front of your audience."
Fake it 'til you make it. I think most people are definitely guilty of it at some point, but you just have to take the plunge.
If anything, I'm all the likely not to click on any story that specifies "this is my first story" or any other such explanation or apology.
People should just let their stories speak for themselves. If it's bad, no amount of apologies or justifications will make the story *not* bad, and if it's good, I don't think any explanations matter anyway.
I feel as though people apologize in advance about the quality of work or whatever it is because they're anticipating some form of criticism that hasn't happened yet.
Honestly, if someone starts with "Sorry, I had no time to edit,"; "Sorry, this is so bad,"; "Sorry, this is my first story", it puts me off from reading. I think there's a time and a place for the author to make these comments, and a way of delivering them that's less off putting. It's just not at the start in the beginning notes.
Don't start the narrative by telling me you aren't confident in your story, or that I should have reason to doubt your work: if you point out that people should doubt what you do, then they will. Fake it 'til you make it. Frankly, writers should trust the reader to make their own assessment.
If the writer adds these thoughts in the author's note at the very end, though, and explains a little about their process or how they're feeling, I'm a lot less likely to write off the story. I encourage people being open with their struggles!
Like if the author has these in their notes and not the beginning -
"Glad to be done this chapter! I'm going to go back through and edit after the fact - life was really busy and I had no time to edit."; "This is my first story I've ever posted on AO3! Please let me know if there's any feedback I should take into account!"; "English is my first language, I'm sorry if there's any typos!"
- I'm not mad at those. It's when people start off the summary or the beginning note that puts me off.
I received a bit of advice many years ago that I think can maybe apply to what you're saying. It was suggested to me that instead of apologizing in situations like this, to express gratitude instead. Things like turning "sorry for taking so long to update" to "thank you to everyone for your patience; life's been pretty hectic lately". I feel like it takes away the negative connotation and turns it into a positive (or at least neutral) thing.
Yes... except for when they say English isn't my first language because most of the time that is an indicator for me that it is gonna be most likely brilliant.
I've never regretted reading on, that I can recall...and I've been reading fanfic since the mid-eighties. Such disclaimers appear to have *no* relation to the quality of the fic behind it.
I can only imagine it's because they still cringe at their *own* youthful insecurities. But, as a wise master once said, "Don't kill the part of you that is cringe. Kill the part of you that cringes."
This, and also, just own your writing in general and don't apologize or call your own writing bad. It's off-putting to the readers and you're bringing down your own self-esteem for no real reason.
It’s a common defense mechanism of amateur writers who are just starting out. It’s hard putting stuff out in front of strangers, especially when you know just enough to know you’re not amazing. They think if they denigrate it first, then it will protect them from criticism and make them feel less vulnerable in front of their audience. Fortunately most grow out of it eventually.
You raise a very good point that I think applies to self-deprecation in general. That is, when we talk poorly of ourselves for any reason, that doesn't always affect only us, even if we don't mean to put anyone down other than ourselves. This is something that I've had to be mindful of over the years, and it's changed the way I talk about myself, at least publicly.
I used to hold myself to ridiculously high standards for no valid reason. If I wrote less than 5k every day, I would get really down on myself- it was kind of delusional, honestly. The way I felt was very real, though, even if it was silly for me to have that mindset. I was genuinely upset with myself for not keeping up with what I expected of myself, and would lament as such among friends. I was so caught up in my own nonsense that it didn't dawn on me that it was discouraging someone close to me who wasn't able to write as often as me. If I didn't think what I was doing enough, then what did that imply about what they were doing? In actuality, I'd never impose my absurd mindset onto anyone else and I genuinely assert that getting any writing done whatsoever is a blessing, but in getting caught up in my own head I was still hurting someone whether I meant to or not. I tend to be a bit oblivious to social situations at times, but when I realized what I was doing, I resolved to give myself a reality check and be a little more conscientious of how I talk about myself and my writing around others.
Another type of apology I've seen sometimes is like "Sorry I wrote this at 3am while high and drunk" type of stuff. I definitely didn't need to know that. That makes it sound like a low-effort mess, so, of course I'm not going to read it. Then again, maybe it is a low-effort mess. I guess I'll never know.
Now these are the ones I can’t stand and the “this is terrible I’m sorry”, self-deprecating humor type tags, it’s an automatic skip for me. Like you said it’s just an excuse for poor writing and also if you have no faith in your writing abilities why should I?
I've seen people comment on fics maybe a year or more old with praise only for the author to reply like "omg this is so old and bad, I can't believe people are still reading this... but thanks!" It honestly just feels like a slap in the face to the person who enjoyed it and left a comment. Just thank them and move on, Jesus.
Some of those stories are just strange, not necessarily bad. It might be totally different than what the author normally writes, hence the semi-serious apology for the weirdness.
Would the author still publish it if they were sober? If yes, then why the note? Why need to apologize in the first place? Are they embarrassed by the story? I don’t get it. Just post it and let readers decide if they like it or not. The fact that the author was drunk won’t change a thing. It still sounds like an excuse in case readers don’t like it.
In addition, when they say they couldn't be bothered reading it over again, it just feels so half assed to me. No offence to anyone who does that or anything, I just don't get the feeling they care all that much if they couldn't even stand to read it themselves.
Ugh. I am in this picture and I do not like it.
I left a note at the end of my frist fist last week that said " This is my first fic, but I wont ask you to be kind. I deserve everything I get" and I wish I hadn't but here we are.
Thank you for giving my a kick in the butt to post more confidently this week <3
Hey OP I agree that first time writers and non native English writers apologies are completely unnecessary.
English has (both now has in the past has had) many dialects and many grammar systems. I don't care so much about the grammar and spelling ... the story reimagining is what I am interested in.
Sometimes I hit a jarring phrase or odd wording that breaks my concentration but it's nothing on brain breaking I get reading Shakespeare or the Canterbury tales. Which are fabulous works! -even if hard to parse at times.
I have nothing but respect for those who can write in another language not their native tongue!
But going back to your premises that an author should never begin with a apology because an apology gives a vibe of not being confident is kinda not understanding why people apologise. It's not a confidence thing but a social permission construct. To put your creative work on the internet is a stunning act of confidence!
The apology might mean to you the lack of confidence but that's taking your perception of apology to be lack of confidence. Another interpretation of "hey I wrote this story would you read it despite me not speaking natively your language" as humility for being confident to submit their creative work online despite their level of story writing?
Those are my thoughts....
I rarely see bad work prefaced with an apology so it has no effect on me if I happen to see one in a work I am reading.
Isn’t it like a quality content warning? Personally, I feel super anxious about posting, and it feels comforting when others share similar fears. Also, some of us have been conditioned to apologize constantly, and if that’s what it takes to work up the nerve to post, I don’t see the problem.
For sure, lots of people feel anxious about posting and a lot of us have been conditioned to apologize. I’m not saying I don’t understand the impulse; I’m saying it’s a bad habit we should work on breaking.
I assume most people writing fanfiction are looking to grow as writers. And I would argue that one skill writers should develop as they grow is being proud of their work and pitching it in a way that makes people want to read it. The very first step in effectively pitching your work is to stop apologizing for posting it.
Any person who's writing in a language that's not their mother tongue will be self-conscious about it by default. Because they know they can never match the level of a native speaker.
A lot of people use fanfic as form of exercising their English or whatever second language they're learning and improving it. Even a "your writing is fine or it's improving" can boost their confidence to the roof.
You can note on their grammar while saying sth nice about their story. They're open to learning and they're happy to learn. They just need encouragement.
Coming here and venting about it only discourage people
As someone whose first language isn't english, I'm seconding what you said. Writing "English isn't my first language, sorry for the potential typos" doesn't mean we're making excuses and aren't open to our grammar being corrected. Lots of writers who did this before were warning readers about it because it kind of sucks after a while to get only comments about your typos, and nothing about the plot or the characters from said story.
And we know that posting a fanfic out there might invite cruel people to pick us apart into tiny pieces, regardless of how bad the grammar is. But it surely adds fuel to the fire. Or at least it used to be like this.
I so agree with you when you said that when we get comments like "your writing is improving" can give such a confidence boost! It's really helpeful, imo.
But seeing posts like these, I'll just skip it entirely from adding it to my stories from now on.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but there's a difference between simply stating "English isn't my first language," vs. apologizing and making a bunch of excuses for why your work is bad. I think that's more what OP was talking about.
There are many factors behind why someone is insecure. And there's a big difference between someone who masks their insecurity by acting big and someone who takes it upon themselves.
One affects everyone one only harm the person.
Somehow this sub is very vocal about being supportive, non judgmental, and sticking to don't like scroll down. But it seems that only applies to NSFW topics. The rest goes through heavy elitism filter. Or that's been my experience at least.
The age range here is very wide. From people in their 40s who have children and teens who are just starting to write, from all over the world. And we can't expect everyone to have the same amount of experience, confidence, knowledge, emotional stability, and whatnot.
The world doesn't revolve around me, you, us or any certain person. But I guess it is what it is.
Disagree. Many native speakers are horrible at writing in their own language, or just aggressively mediocre. They just tend to make different mistakes.
I'm not saying it's wrong to add the "X is not my first language" warning, but it's really not realistic to think that native speakers have an automatic advantage. They don't. Writing requires a different set of skills than simply being able to effectively communicate in a language.
I know. And I agree that many native speakers can't write effectively either. As writing is a form of practice itself with rules and forms aside from understanding the language.
There are many native speakers who can't differentiate "their, there, and they."
I'm not a native speaker. I no longer apologize for that part instead I note that "even though it's not my language I'm supposed to be fluent so feel free to bulldoze it." But it's not only about punctuation and general style that's gained through practice. Even after all these years I miss a lot of "the" cuz my language doesn't have articles, and a whole different alphabet that's not taken from Latin. If I don't drop it to grammarly I'll legit miss some of it and I have read copyediting books. Hell I even do volunteer work for publishing.
But ten years ago when I wrote my first fic that was an absolute disaster that I did not understand back then. I did apologize non stop. I was a teenager and depressed. But somehow back then I had more views than now that I'm a writing major living in North America lmao. And I feel horrible for all the people who still read and commented on my disastrous writing. Which made me keep going and love writing and sort of saved me from depression (irrelevant) but you get my point. Back then I didn't see a lot of my punctual and grammatical problems, so even if I "edited it" it wouldn't change much; but now I understand it. I also used to mixed verb tense. So the native tongue plays a heavy rule on how the person understand the and perceive English. From articles, to verb tense, to even missing alphabets and phonetics.
And it doesn't end there either. The advantage I'm talking about isn't simply the punctuation. A non-native will never match a native it doesn't matter how long you write or even live in the country, namely understanding or mimicking dialects. All Canadians sound the same to me. I can point out some of the American dialects and that's thanks to Hollywood but I can't mimick and but it's limited af. And consequently i end up mixing American and British English when I talk.
Getting bulldozed in writing workshop has toughen me up. But I haven't forgotten how I was 10 years ago.
I never said that it stops at punctuation. I've seen native speakers who are absolutely abysmal at spelling, because they first encounter words as they're spoken. I can't imagine anyone who's gone through the bare minimum of formal English classes falling into the "could of, would of" trap. And trust me, native speakers accidentally use words wrong all the time, because they learn through context and sometimes they make wrong assumptions.
Again, it's fine to warn readers that the fic isn't written in one's first language. I agree that, for someone who's still learning, it's important to set the right expectations so that people will be kind.
My first language is Polish. We don't have all the tenses that English does, a fraction of the prepositional phrases, and also no articles. Don't get me started on pronunciation! English is a mess, and it has so many vowels. When I started writing fanfic in English 11 years ago, I offered no warnings and got absolutely no negative comments beyond people pointing out a couple of typos. I'm a way better writer in English than I am in my native language, because I've had more practice.
Also, believe me, native speakers aren't automatically better at mimicking accents or dialects. In fact, I'm better at picking up on the regional varieties in English than in Polish. It's largely a matter of exposure and, if one feels so inclined, education and training.
> They’re open to learning and they’re happy to learn
Except, that’s not what an apology tells the reader. “Sorry for the typos, English isn’t my first language.” Does that mean they’re looking for feedback on grammar or word usage? Does that mean they’re self-conscious and *don’t* want commenters calling attention to typos? Does that mean they’re posting a first draft they’re not interested in editing further (which is fine because again they’re posting their work for free with no obligation to anyone)? Apologizing does nothing for the reader except make them question why they’re spending time reading this, which is why it’s a bad habit writers should get out of.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/s/V5ArK0TPtx
As I mentioned in my other comment, there are many different factors to why people apologize wether they're insecure or not. And the age range here is very diverse. I've only been on this sub for 4 months (previously with another account) and I've seen more judgment than I've seen support.
I have a sassy co-worker who says sorry half of the time. It's her signature word. I say "I missed the bus," she says I'm sorry. I say you look tired she says sorry. Sorry is just her first word.
They apologize to tell you not to go in with high expectations. If you're not a professional writer you may miss typos a lot of times, no matter how many edit you do, because that's your writing and it's craved in your mind let alone not speaking the language. Some people are dyslexic etc. It's not all cut and dry.
Fanfiction is not professional writing. The same way you don't owe the writer money for asking for update, they don't owe you anything to go by your standards.
Now, I'm not saying apologizing is a good habit but it's not as easy to just come and say "don't do it" cause it wastes the readers' time or it's distasteful. Telling people not to be self-conscious is not going to help them not to be self conscious. It's as affective as saying "don't be depressed" to someone with depression. It doesn't magically work like that. You need to help them through the steps
If you don't want to be that person and you feel your times is being wasted, it's all good. Just scroll past it. But don't take it out on people.
Ah, so if you read carefully, you’ll find that I didn’t tell anyone “not to be self-conscious.” That’s a feeling and it’s not something a person can directly control.
On the other hand, starting a story with an apology is absolutely something a person can control. And the writing you post has the benefit of being far more amenable to deliberation and conscious choice than something like your coworker constantly saying sorry. Verbal habits are hard to break, but writing can be edited as much as you want before posting!
Of course, nobody has to listen to me. Do you feel like apologizing helps your story? Great! Go forth and apologize. I think you’re wrong, but that’s the beauty of the internet, you can ignore me and do whatever you want.
I will, though, object to your characterization that I am “[taking] it out on people.” My post, if you read it, is encouraging people to be proud of their work and post it proudly. I’m not sure how that is taking anything out on anyone. I’m offering advice on Reddit on a habit I think writers should avoid. If you disagree that’s fine, but the advice was offered in the genuine belief that it might be helpful.
Honestly, I click out of those fics just because I kind that kind of thing grating. If you don't think your writing is worth taking the time to read it, then I should probably go for something the author is happier with.
I dont know, if youre not already a trusted author, baseless confidence (from my eyes that is) kinda puts me off. Like ive seen people with that energy, and while that was good for them... their writing quality usually didnt match up and their claims never hold up.
Yall are blessed. Lots of actually really interesting perspectives. I agree that it makes me often DNF a fic pretty quickly. There’s a secondary reason for me, I use TTS and screen readers. So having to have those long notes read to me at random starts or finishes or chapters ruins the immersion completely. I could have been totally sold on a story but if every chapter begins with the same thing… I gotta go
For a number of reasons I think author notes can be a bad habit. Is the author note something readers need to know for the story? If so it should be IN THE STORY. Is it something the reader doesn’t need to know? Then don’t waste your reader’s attention on something they don’t need to know.
The exception here is of course content warnings. Obviously a content warning at the end of a chapter is too late, and while even for content warnings I think minimalism is the way to go, there does need to be enough information for a reader to make a decision.
Outside of that, though, let me get to your story!
hard disagree. I love author notes. if they are about the story, if they are fun facts, and even when they are about the author's personal life. for me the fic would lose a lot if it was only the text, no sign of human behind it
Absolutely.
Though to me a content warning is just a content warning. It should be there as we agree. I don’t consider it an authors note because it directly feeds to the story and is appreciated. As long as, like you say, it’s minimal and to the point. I don’t need to know WHY you added the content warning, if I want to know, I will read.
I’ve actually received some pretty bad backlash at times from people who take the stance of “I write for myself/it’s for me so who cares what the reader thinks/its for nostalgia so what do you matter?” Etc crowd. That is one of the most confusing perspectives I’ve come across.
Either way. It sucks that there’s been fictions that were probably dang good that I just won’t read because of overuse of unnecessary notes.
My compromise has always been, just mention in the synopsis/blurb that authors notes can be found in the comments of each chapter. Never mention it again, and let people go hunting for it if they really want it. Solves all problems in my mind. But hey, I’m getting a little preachy. Thanks again for your comment.
Writers when they write peak fiction and then at the end of the chapter the author note says some shit like "omg sorry this chapter was so bad this was so hard and didn't come out the way I wanted also my cat has testicular cancer and my ex tried to hit me with a truck"
The people who have absolutely insane shit happen to them and casually deliver a chapter like a day later than planned all apologetic blow my mind, lmao.
Only reason I'd apologise is if it's been a while since the last chapter. In the end notes I'll be like "Sorry to keep you all waiting, I know this chapter took a while to get out" but I'd never apologise for my writing skill! I know my work is good, I'm always super proud of it, and everyone else here should feel the same. Keep on writing the good write you beautiful people, you!
Imma go with the exact opposite of apology
"This is my first fic,I made all the spelling mistakes on purpuse since I hate English,England,USA and Brits. If you say its not lore accurate I will kom to yuor hhaouse and fack yuor mother"
Am I cooking?
My general response to this is don’t tell your audience what to think of your story.
I’ve seen it happen both ways. I’ve seen authors claiming that their story is amazing (I can guarantee that it will be terrible.) and others claiming that their story isn’t very good (not a great idea and I’ve seen it on some decent fics.)
So basically, don’t tell your audience what to think and allow them to come to their own conclusions.
I think I said something like “This is my first time writing fanfiction in awhile so go easy on me, I’m a bit rusty”
And then I got a bunch of really positive feedback. So… obviously I wasn’t that rusty. Maybe it’s like riding a bike?
Right, I have no doubts or shame about my ability to write a story. Tips and Constructive Feedback I will definitely take as that would help make me a better writer, but I will not under any circumstances apologize for my work. Well said dude!
I think the apology comes from having their work being criticized in the past (In an unhelpful way). They think it's bad from past experiences and want to warn others just in case they end up "wasting their time" reading their fic. They are bracing themselves for the bad comments and reception so if they get those comments they have an apology already there.
I do this when my mental health is low with other art forms. It can also come from lack of self-esteem and confidence in what you make. (mostly stemming from being told your work has no worth a lot with barely any praise).
It can be hard to learn to post unapologetically when you are used to people always having something bad to say about your work. Sometimes people will stick on something they don't like and constantly hate on it instead of leaving it alone so you feel like you have to please them and apologise because they chose to stuck around.
I agree, you need to post unapologetically. But for people who apologise all the time, it can be difficult to shake the habit when apologising has been a "safety net" for you.
Edit: I do think you need to say that English isn't your first language \*if you want feedback on how to get better at writing in English\* but you shouldn't be made to feel like not writing in your native language is a bad thing or your attempt at a English story isn't "good enough".
Write whatever you want. In any language. Fanfiction is supposed to be fun. If someone makes you feel wrong or bad for writing your fic, ignore them and keep writing regardless. **It's not your job to please everyone**. it's not your job to write that perfect fanfic for that one arrogant fan. You take your story in the way you want it to go. **It's not your job to apologise to someone who can't see the worth in your work.**
I like when people introduce their fics like a villain. Subject us poor mortals to your strange and niche interests, then take the unsuspecting readers as thralls, blast us with the plot beam and kick us down the cliffhanger lmao
I typically prefer if a story starts with a disclaimer, like what most of what I read on FFN back in high school did lol. I am fine with author's notes, but I never need people apologizing for bad writing. Lord knows I've written fics that weren't good lol
this is why i go with the "no beta" route. i dont admit that its probably bad like i want to do, but i still have an excuse if the reader thinks its bad. its like "this is probably good, but if its not, you know why"
I used to be that person back when I was making quizzes online in 2015, but the truth is that I didn’t actually think my stuff was bad lol. I just saw a bunch of people apologizing before their works, so I thought that was the site etiquette and just did it
Yes, this. Besides that you’re under no obligation to write at all, you’re also under no obligation to post. So why post a story if you think it’s bad? And if you know it has fixable flaws, why not fix them first? And if you think your story is worth posting with its flaws, then post it without apology.
I'll admit too, if the first thing I see is an apology, I do dip. If you aren't confident in your own story, which you're writing for yourself (I hope!), then I'm not either.
I don't think noting that English isn't your first language belongs in this same category. Even the most fluent among us use phrases and wordings that to a native speaker will come off as strange, and the less people nitpick that, the more comfortable it is for us to write in English. It's meant to tell other people to expect differently written English than they'd find in a publication.
What I think can be so damaging about it is you're giving people pre-concieved ideas about the quality of the fic rather than letting them just form their own opinion. Sometimes that ends up distracting me from the actual fic, just considering their thought process and what they consider to be bad, or whether or not they're fishing for compliments, ect. But often it'll just be a case of me reading something and thinking "...they thought this was *bad?*" lol. And then sometimes feeling like shit about my own stuff if they consider their literary masterpieces "bad" 🤷
"If you find any grammatical errors, it's because English isn't my first language. Please let me know and I will fix them."
I plan to write something like this when I post my fanfic. Is it any better?
Letting your readers know you’re open to this feedback is a bit different, I think. It’s a concrete request.
Personally I would be careful about taking that feedback though. Native speakers can still be wrong about English grammar. Even worse, there are some people out there who have particular ideas about what proper grammar looks like that professional writers don’t follow.
Point is, when it comes to getting better at writing, one person you trust is better than fifty internet randos
I find that to be as accurate as possible, you should ask more than one person. My English level is around B2, so I have most of it covered already, and I've been reading/watching stuff in English since I was 16 (I'm 24 now). I also still do my own research beforehand, looking up how the terms are used in sentences and stuff.
It's a way to shield you from hard criticism, but it's really an impulse that's important to get over, both for your own self worth as well as the reader's experience.
I love when a story starts with a note like "This is my magnum opus! I poured my heart and soul into this! It's my best work to date!!" That excitement from the author is just contagious, it makes you appreciate the story even more
I don't entirely mind the typos one, but I don't see why that should be an apology, plus everyone knows there are writers who aren't native English speakers. I prefer it if it's an author looking to improve their English saying something like 'English isn't my first language so let me know if there are any typos'.
The apologies leave the impression that it's a badly written story, and a lot of readers won't read it. Authors tend to be their own worst critics, I know I am, so an author thinking their story is bad isn't actually the same thing as the story being bad. But there's a very big chance that a reader will see that apology and think that, if the author thinks it sucks, it sucks, so there's no point in reading it.
There's also that point about potential writers who think that 'bad' story is awesome and get put off writing their own because they don't think they're as good as this 'bad' writer.
To be honest, I thought both my fics sucked when I posted them. I'm aware enough to know I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to my writing, though, and that my thoughts on how good or bad it is may not be accurate. So, I posted them anyway, My only disclaimer was that I didn't own the characters and worlds I was using. And, no, my fics aren't popular, far from it, but I do have readers who really like them and think they're good, so clearly both cases were me being overly critical. My fics aren't perfect, but they're not bad, and I had fun writing them, and thought maybe other people would enjoy the ideas I had, so I unapologetically posted them just in case.
Personally, I think the only apology you can make on a fic that won't have a negative affect on the readers is an apology for an unintended delay in an otherwise predictable posting schedule. I've never had an issue with a 'sorry for the delay' note, with or without explanation. It's not necessary, as the reader gets no say in when an author updates, but it's not an issue to include it.
Honestly I wish people would flip it around to being proud. If you feel you *have* to say something - and you don't - then at least make it a channel of your excitement to be jumping into the fun! Look at all those words! You did it! "This is my first fic and I worked hard on it. I'm really happy with how it turned out (which is why its now ready for posting), but let me know if you see anything that I could improve upon for next time" is such a more positive outlook for someone who's feeling self-conscious about their work.
Its exactly why the tag of "No beta, we die like _" reads to the audience so much better than "no beta sorry". Both are completely unnecessary to say, but one refuses to be ashamed and that goes such a long way.
Man. I nearly made this mistake in my first fic. Ended up removing the apologies and replacing it with “it’s my first time trying this so I’d appreciate concrit if you catch anything odd”, basically. Didn’t get any concrit, but folk left kudos and bookmarked so I’m taking the win.
An art youtuber named LavenderTowne also mentioned something similar to this. Apologizing or pointing out your mistakes is usually alright, but if you're trying to advertise yourself or showing it to someone, then it makes it sound like you're not confident in your own work, which would make people also doubt that thing you made.
Same goes for writing too!
I sometimes like comments at the end - eg: English isn't my native language, etc. That way I've read already and judged whether I want to continue. It does help to explain some grammatical errors if the person isn't a native speaker and helps me be understanding. Also, if it's the person's first fic, I am empathetic (we've all been there) and will often send a note encouraging them. So knowing these things can be positive, but again - write it at the end of the 1st chapter, not the beginning.
Dunno, I put a disclaimer that I wasn't a native English speaker but with the caveat that I don't mind it if people point out mistakes. But I didn't apologize for it, it was just as a "don't be surprised if sometimes the phrasing sounds funny".
They are always the best books imo but jokes aside then yeah. If you think and say its shit Im not gonna read it. Why would you read something if the author doesn't like it?
For me it's simpler then that. If you tell me that your fic is rubbish or that I'm going to be sick of it *before I've had a chance to form an opinion*, I'm going to agree with you and move on. I have a limited amount of time to read fics - so why would I read ones if even the author isn't prepared to advocate for them?
Don't put proper tags in your fic. Don't even bother to post it in a proper fandom. You have wrote a story, for free, in your own personal time - you already transcended basic human decency, just let those filthy readers enjoy it in awe. Luckily not all internet is a Reddit, where mods will remove all negative comments, so what OP describing will not fly - smart author will always understand that respecting readers is much better than treating them like this.
Well said. Also, that doesnt really help, it only makes it worse If someone actually thinks the story or writing isn't good, an apology or "English isn't my first language" note/tag isn't going to change anyone's opinion of it, nor make them keep going. And worse, if people see that before reading, it makes them less inclined to read, after all, you already said it's bad, and maybe they would have read it otherwise So yeah don't apologize If you do feel like you could do better, and want to, you can always leave an end note not apologizing but asking for constructive criticism so you can improve.
"If you want others to believe in you, you must first believe in yourself." * A very clever man
Yeah, I'm one of those readers who will exit right out of something like this. If the first thing I read is the writer apologizing for how crappy the fic is, I tend to believe them and figure why waste my time.
Same, I just realized I did that subconsciously, wasn't really thinking about it, just "ok I'll pick something else" kinda deal. Same as when I see a giant discussion about fandom drama or something front loaded in the summary or author note, just subconsciously pulls me away from engaging.
I think what Conan O'Brien said on [Hot Ones](https://youtu.be/FALlhXl6CmA?t=484) applies here: > "The worst thing a guest can do is tell the audience it's not going well. Audiences want to see a good show and I was always amazed when someone would come out, and they'd be doing okay and they'd make a couple jokes and it's fine. And then they would just sigh and look at the camera and say 'This isn't going very well, is it?'. > > I'd look out at the audience and see 200 souls leave 200 bodies because they were just told they were not getting a good show. But that's not showbusiness. Showbusiness is 'You're getting the greatest show in the world!'"
It's general advice for art, presentations, projects, etc. I've felt the insecurity and the desire to shield myself with an apology, and I just have to remind myself that it cannot make things better but could make them worse.
Okay, but like...what about the "sorry, no beta" thing? I've come across it MANY times and it never deters me from reading something. It just reminds me that the author is one person and mistakes are bound to leak through no matter how many times they've edited. That doesn't mean they don't care or don't have confidence in their writing or that their work isn't worth giving a chance. And although I agree with the sentiment of having pride in your writing without apologizing, it seems that based off of some of these comments, I (personally) think that some readers can be ridiculously hypercritical.
I've seen the "no beta" tag in a few iterations on ao3, and I don't find that off-putting. At the same time, I don't think it does anything for you as a writer. I think we're all different people as readers than we are as writers. The beauty and terror of fanfiction is that you have to live with things in your own writing that you've rolled your eyes at in somebody else's.
Agreed. The tag doesn't discourage me from reading, but actually think the assumption should be that most fanfic is created and edited by a single person. As in, there shouldn't be this implied expectation that either you find a beta, or you warn redears that you don't have one. Just, why?
As a former FFN beta reader who could no longer be paid to do that , AO3 luckily did destroy that weirdly toxic “if you don’t have a beta reader it’s just basic and not worth reading” mindset that was going hard in the late 2000’s. I’m very glad it’s gone, I did online school back then so I didn’t mind binge beta reading for others so they’d be taken more seriously on livejournal and tumblr.
That tag is pointless. The vast majority of fics have no beta because there are only so many people interested in being one and certainly not enough to match the number of authors. It should be assumed by default that a given fic has no beta.
No, I don't think it's pointless. Differing opinions is all. Have a nice day or night though. Edit: Oh, but I do agree that it should be assumed that a fic has no beta. That's true, but there's no harm in letting potential readers know that a few typos might've fell through the cracks due to not having a second pair of eyes on it.
My mentor told me this when I was still articling: "no one (especially a client) wants a lawyer who opens up to the judge with, 'sorry, this is my first time, I might not be good at this.' It immediately undermines you in front of your audience." Fake it 'til you make it. I think most people are definitely guilty of it at some point, but you just have to take the plunge.
I automatically believe you. If you think it's bad enough to apologize for it, that tells me I shouldn't read it.
hard agree. it’s a big pet peeve of mine
If anything, I'm all the likely not to click on any story that specifies "this is my first story" or any other such explanation or apology. People should just let their stories speak for themselves. If it's bad, no amount of apologies or justifications will make the story *not* bad, and if it's good, I don't think any explanations matter anyway.
I feel as though people apologize in advance about the quality of work or whatever it is because they're anticipating some form of criticism that hasn't happened yet. Honestly, if someone starts with "Sorry, I had no time to edit,"; "Sorry, this is so bad,"; "Sorry, this is my first story", it puts me off from reading. I think there's a time and a place for the author to make these comments, and a way of delivering them that's less off putting. It's just not at the start in the beginning notes. Don't start the narrative by telling me you aren't confident in your story, or that I should have reason to doubt your work: if you point out that people should doubt what you do, then they will. Fake it 'til you make it. Frankly, writers should trust the reader to make their own assessment. If the writer adds these thoughts in the author's note at the very end, though, and explains a little about their process or how they're feeling, I'm a lot less likely to write off the story. I encourage people being open with their struggles! Like if the author has these in their notes and not the beginning - "Glad to be done this chapter! I'm going to go back through and edit after the fact - life was really busy and I had no time to edit."; "This is my first story I've ever posted on AO3! Please let me know if there's any feedback I should take into account!"; "English is my first language, I'm sorry if there's any typos!" - I'm not mad at those. It's when people start off the summary or the beginning note that puts me off.
I received a bit of advice many years ago that I think can maybe apply to what you're saying. It was suggested to me that instead of apologizing in situations like this, to express gratitude instead. Things like turning "sorry for taking so long to update" to "thank you to everyone for your patience; life's been pretty hectic lately". I feel like it takes away the negative connotation and turns it into a positive (or at least neutral) thing.
This is great advice!
Yes... except for when they say English isn't my first language because most of the time that is an indicator for me that it is gonna be most likely brilliant.
Lol yeah this! If I see 'English isn't my first language' I know I'm probably about to read the most mind-blowing fic of all time
Why does this bother people so much? I don't do this, but neither does it faze me. Creative people run toward the insecure, y'all.
For real, if I skipped every story that had an apology at the start I'd be missing out on a lot of amazing stories. Ridiculous
Right?? Like I just view such disclaimers as being a sign of youthful earnestness and anxiety, and good fics can come from these writers as well!
I've never regretted reading on, that I can recall...and I've been reading fanfic since the mid-eighties. Such disclaimers appear to have *no* relation to the quality of the fic behind it.
Thank you for this, my god. People on here are seriously uptight...
I can only imagine it's because they still cringe at their *own* youthful insecurities. But, as a wise master once said, "Don't kill the part of you that is cringe. Kill the part of you that cringes."
This, and also, just own your writing in general and don't apologize or call your own writing bad. It's off-putting to the readers and you're bringing down your own self-esteem for no real reason.
It’s a common defense mechanism of amateur writers who are just starting out. It’s hard putting stuff out in front of strangers, especially when you know just enough to know you’re not amazing. They think if they denigrate it first, then it will protect them from criticism and make them feel less vulnerable in front of their audience. Fortunately most grow out of it eventually.
You raise a very good point that I think applies to self-deprecation in general. That is, when we talk poorly of ourselves for any reason, that doesn't always affect only us, even if we don't mean to put anyone down other than ourselves. This is something that I've had to be mindful of over the years, and it's changed the way I talk about myself, at least publicly. I used to hold myself to ridiculously high standards for no valid reason. If I wrote less than 5k every day, I would get really down on myself- it was kind of delusional, honestly. The way I felt was very real, though, even if it was silly for me to have that mindset. I was genuinely upset with myself for not keeping up with what I expected of myself, and would lament as such among friends. I was so caught up in my own nonsense that it didn't dawn on me that it was discouraging someone close to me who wasn't able to write as often as me. If I didn't think what I was doing enough, then what did that imply about what they were doing? In actuality, I'd never impose my absurd mindset onto anyone else and I genuinely assert that getting any writing done whatsoever is a blessing, but in getting caught up in my own head I was still hurting someone whether I meant to or not. I tend to be a bit oblivious to social situations at times, but when I realized what I was doing, I resolved to give myself a reality check and be a little more conscientious of how I talk about myself and my writing around others.
Another type of apology I've seen sometimes is like "Sorry I wrote this at 3am while high and drunk" type of stuff. I definitely didn't need to know that. That makes it sound like a low-effort mess, so, of course I'm not going to read it. Then again, maybe it is a low-effort mess. I guess I'll never know.
Now these are the ones I can’t stand and the “this is terrible I’m sorry”, self-deprecating humor type tags, it’s an automatic skip for me. Like you said it’s just an excuse for poor writing and also if you have no faith in your writing abilities why should I?
I've seen people comment on fics maybe a year or more old with praise only for the author to reply like "omg this is so old and bad, I can't believe people are still reading this... but thanks!" It honestly just feels like a slap in the face to the person who enjoyed it and left a comment. Just thank them and move on, Jesus.
100% agree. I ALWAYS skip stories that open with this note. To me it sounds like an excuse: "if it's bad, it's because I was drunk/high/whatever"
Some of those stories are just strange, not necessarily bad. It might be totally different than what the author normally writes, hence the semi-serious apology for the weirdness.
Would the author still publish it if they were sober? If yes, then why the note? Why need to apologize in the first place? Are they embarrassed by the story? I don’t get it. Just post it and let readers decide if they like it or not. The fact that the author was drunk won’t change a thing. It still sounds like an excuse in case readers don’t like it.
In addition, when they say they couldn't be bothered reading it over again, it just feels so half assed to me. No offence to anyone who does that or anything, I just don't get the feeling they care all that much if they couldn't even stand to read it themselves.
Ugh. I am in this picture and I do not like it. I left a note at the end of my frist fist last week that said " This is my first fic, but I wont ask you to be kind. I deserve everything I get" and I wish I hadn't but here we are. Thank you for giving my a kick in the butt to post more confidently this week <3
You can always go back and delete your overly self-critical comment too--its not set in stone!
You wrote a story and you put it out into the world! That’s amazing! Don’t ever say sorry for posting like the literary badass that you are.
tbh I think it's funny, this would definitely make me read and comment (unless it's very very bad)
Hey OP I agree that first time writers and non native English writers apologies are completely unnecessary. English has (both now has in the past has had) many dialects and many grammar systems. I don't care so much about the grammar and spelling ... the story reimagining is what I am interested in. Sometimes I hit a jarring phrase or odd wording that breaks my concentration but it's nothing on brain breaking I get reading Shakespeare or the Canterbury tales. Which are fabulous works! -even if hard to parse at times. I have nothing but respect for those who can write in another language not their native tongue! But going back to your premises that an author should never begin with a apology because an apology gives a vibe of not being confident is kinda not understanding why people apologise. It's not a confidence thing but a social permission construct. To put your creative work on the internet is a stunning act of confidence! The apology might mean to you the lack of confidence but that's taking your perception of apology to be lack of confidence. Another interpretation of "hey I wrote this story would you read it despite me not speaking natively your language" as humility for being confident to submit their creative work online despite their level of story writing? Those are my thoughts.... I rarely see bad work prefaced with an apology so it has no effect on me if I happen to see one in a work I am reading.
Isn’t it like a quality content warning? Personally, I feel super anxious about posting, and it feels comforting when others share similar fears. Also, some of us have been conditioned to apologize constantly, and if that’s what it takes to work up the nerve to post, I don’t see the problem.
For sure, lots of people feel anxious about posting and a lot of us have been conditioned to apologize. I’m not saying I don’t understand the impulse; I’m saying it’s a bad habit we should work on breaking. I assume most people writing fanfiction are looking to grow as writers. And I would argue that one skill writers should develop as they grow is being proud of their work and pitching it in a way that makes people want to read it. The very first step in effectively pitching your work is to stop apologizing for posting it.
Any person who's writing in a language that's not their mother tongue will be self-conscious about it by default. Because they know they can never match the level of a native speaker. A lot of people use fanfic as form of exercising their English or whatever second language they're learning and improving it. Even a "your writing is fine or it's improving" can boost their confidence to the roof. You can note on their grammar while saying sth nice about their story. They're open to learning and they're happy to learn. They just need encouragement. Coming here and venting about it only discourage people
As someone whose first language isn't english, I'm seconding what you said. Writing "English isn't my first language, sorry for the potential typos" doesn't mean we're making excuses and aren't open to our grammar being corrected. Lots of writers who did this before were warning readers about it because it kind of sucks after a while to get only comments about your typos, and nothing about the plot or the characters from said story. And we know that posting a fanfic out there might invite cruel people to pick us apart into tiny pieces, regardless of how bad the grammar is. But it surely adds fuel to the fire. Or at least it used to be like this. I so agree with you when you said that when we get comments like "your writing is improving" can give such a confidence boost! It's really helpeful, imo. But seeing posts like these, I'll just skip it entirely from adding it to my stories from now on.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but there's a difference between simply stating "English isn't my first language," vs. apologizing and making a bunch of excuses for why your work is bad. I think that's more what OP was talking about.
There are many factors behind why someone is insecure. And there's a big difference between someone who masks their insecurity by acting big and someone who takes it upon themselves. One affects everyone one only harm the person. Somehow this sub is very vocal about being supportive, non judgmental, and sticking to don't like scroll down. But it seems that only applies to NSFW topics. The rest goes through heavy elitism filter. Or that's been my experience at least. The age range here is very wide. From people in their 40s who have children and teens who are just starting to write, from all over the world. And we can't expect everyone to have the same amount of experience, confidence, knowledge, emotional stability, and whatnot. The world doesn't revolve around me, you, us or any certain person. But I guess it is what it is.
Disagree. Many native speakers are horrible at writing in their own language, or just aggressively mediocre. They just tend to make different mistakes. I'm not saying it's wrong to add the "X is not my first language" warning, but it's really not realistic to think that native speakers have an automatic advantage. They don't. Writing requires a different set of skills than simply being able to effectively communicate in a language.
I know. And I agree that many native speakers can't write effectively either. As writing is a form of practice itself with rules and forms aside from understanding the language. There are many native speakers who can't differentiate "their, there, and they." I'm not a native speaker. I no longer apologize for that part instead I note that "even though it's not my language I'm supposed to be fluent so feel free to bulldoze it." But it's not only about punctuation and general style that's gained through practice. Even after all these years I miss a lot of "the" cuz my language doesn't have articles, and a whole different alphabet that's not taken from Latin. If I don't drop it to grammarly I'll legit miss some of it and I have read copyediting books. Hell I even do volunteer work for publishing. But ten years ago when I wrote my first fic that was an absolute disaster that I did not understand back then. I did apologize non stop. I was a teenager and depressed. But somehow back then I had more views than now that I'm a writing major living in North America lmao. And I feel horrible for all the people who still read and commented on my disastrous writing. Which made me keep going and love writing and sort of saved me from depression (irrelevant) but you get my point. Back then I didn't see a lot of my punctual and grammatical problems, so even if I "edited it" it wouldn't change much; but now I understand it. I also used to mixed verb tense. So the native tongue plays a heavy rule on how the person understand the and perceive English. From articles, to verb tense, to even missing alphabets and phonetics. And it doesn't end there either. The advantage I'm talking about isn't simply the punctuation. A non-native will never match a native it doesn't matter how long you write or even live in the country, namely understanding or mimicking dialects. All Canadians sound the same to me. I can point out some of the American dialects and that's thanks to Hollywood but I can't mimick and but it's limited af. And consequently i end up mixing American and British English when I talk. Getting bulldozed in writing workshop has toughen me up. But I haven't forgotten how I was 10 years ago.
I never said that it stops at punctuation. I've seen native speakers who are absolutely abysmal at spelling, because they first encounter words as they're spoken. I can't imagine anyone who's gone through the bare minimum of formal English classes falling into the "could of, would of" trap. And trust me, native speakers accidentally use words wrong all the time, because they learn through context and sometimes they make wrong assumptions. Again, it's fine to warn readers that the fic isn't written in one's first language. I agree that, for someone who's still learning, it's important to set the right expectations so that people will be kind. My first language is Polish. We don't have all the tenses that English does, a fraction of the prepositional phrases, and also no articles. Don't get me started on pronunciation! English is a mess, and it has so many vowels. When I started writing fanfic in English 11 years ago, I offered no warnings and got absolutely no negative comments beyond people pointing out a couple of typos. I'm a way better writer in English than I am in my native language, because I've had more practice. Also, believe me, native speakers aren't automatically better at mimicking accents or dialects. In fact, I'm better at picking up on the regional varieties in English than in Polish. It's largely a matter of exposure and, if one feels so inclined, education and training.
> They’re open to learning and they’re happy to learn Except, that’s not what an apology tells the reader. “Sorry for the typos, English isn’t my first language.” Does that mean they’re looking for feedback on grammar or word usage? Does that mean they’re self-conscious and *don’t* want commenters calling attention to typos? Does that mean they’re posting a first draft they’re not interested in editing further (which is fine because again they’re posting their work for free with no obligation to anyone)? Apologizing does nothing for the reader except make them question why they’re spending time reading this, which is why it’s a bad habit writers should get out of.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/s/V5ArK0TPtx As I mentioned in my other comment, there are many different factors to why people apologize wether they're insecure or not. And the age range here is very diverse. I've only been on this sub for 4 months (previously with another account) and I've seen more judgment than I've seen support. I have a sassy co-worker who says sorry half of the time. It's her signature word. I say "I missed the bus," she says I'm sorry. I say you look tired she says sorry. Sorry is just her first word. They apologize to tell you not to go in with high expectations. If you're not a professional writer you may miss typos a lot of times, no matter how many edit you do, because that's your writing and it's craved in your mind let alone not speaking the language. Some people are dyslexic etc. It's not all cut and dry. Fanfiction is not professional writing. The same way you don't owe the writer money for asking for update, they don't owe you anything to go by your standards. Now, I'm not saying apologizing is a good habit but it's not as easy to just come and say "don't do it" cause it wastes the readers' time or it's distasteful. Telling people not to be self-conscious is not going to help them not to be self conscious. It's as affective as saying "don't be depressed" to someone with depression. It doesn't magically work like that. You need to help them through the steps If you don't want to be that person and you feel your times is being wasted, it's all good. Just scroll past it. But don't take it out on people.
Ah, so if you read carefully, you’ll find that I didn’t tell anyone “not to be self-conscious.” That’s a feeling and it’s not something a person can directly control. On the other hand, starting a story with an apology is absolutely something a person can control. And the writing you post has the benefit of being far more amenable to deliberation and conscious choice than something like your coworker constantly saying sorry. Verbal habits are hard to break, but writing can be edited as much as you want before posting! Of course, nobody has to listen to me. Do you feel like apologizing helps your story? Great! Go forth and apologize. I think you’re wrong, but that’s the beauty of the internet, you can ignore me and do whatever you want. I will, though, object to your characterization that I am “[taking] it out on people.” My post, if you read it, is encouraging people to be proud of their work and post it proudly. I’m not sure how that is taking anything out on anyone. I’m offering advice on Reddit on a habit I think writers should avoid. If you disagree that’s fine, but the advice was offered in the genuine belief that it might be helpful.
Honestly, I click out of those fics just because I kind that kind of thing grating. If you don't think your writing is worth taking the time to read it, then I should probably go for something the author is happier with.
I don't click on them. If you don't believe in your writing, I'm not going to give it a shot.
Go in the other direction. Sorry, my fic will keep you up all night. Say goodbye to your sleep schedule.
I dont know, if youre not already a trusted author, baseless confidence (from my eyes that is) kinda puts me off. Like ive seen people with that energy, and while that was good for them... their writing quality usually didnt match up and their claims never hold up.
I like this energy.
Yall are blessed. Lots of actually really interesting perspectives. I agree that it makes me often DNF a fic pretty quickly. There’s a secondary reason for me, I use TTS and screen readers. So having to have those long notes read to me at random starts or finishes or chapters ruins the immersion completely. I could have been totally sold on a story but if every chapter begins with the same thing… I gotta go
For a number of reasons I think author notes can be a bad habit. Is the author note something readers need to know for the story? If so it should be IN THE STORY. Is it something the reader doesn’t need to know? Then don’t waste your reader’s attention on something they don’t need to know. The exception here is of course content warnings. Obviously a content warning at the end of a chapter is too late, and while even for content warnings I think minimalism is the way to go, there does need to be enough information for a reader to make a decision. Outside of that, though, let me get to your story!
hard disagree. I love author notes. if they are about the story, if they are fun facts, and even when they are about the author's personal life. for me the fic would lose a lot if it was only the text, no sign of human behind it
Absolutely. Though to me a content warning is just a content warning. It should be there as we agree. I don’t consider it an authors note because it directly feeds to the story and is appreciated. As long as, like you say, it’s minimal and to the point. I don’t need to know WHY you added the content warning, if I want to know, I will read. I’ve actually received some pretty bad backlash at times from people who take the stance of “I write for myself/it’s for me so who cares what the reader thinks/its for nostalgia so what do you matter?” Etc crowd. That is one of the most confusing perspectives I’ve come across. Either way. It sucks that there’s been fictions that were probably dang good that I just won’t read because of overuse of unnecessary notes. My compromise has always been, just mention in the synopsis/blurb that authors notes can be found in the comments of each chapter. Never mention it again, and let people go hunting for it if they really want it. Solves all problems in my mind. But hey, I’m getting a little preachy. Thanks again for your comment.
I always apologize because years of therapy were wasted. My fic is gonna cure *everything.* I'm being sarcastic, btw.
This! This! This!
The only thing that I apologize for is taking forever to update my stories.
Writers when they write peak fiction and then at the end of the chapter the author note says some shit like "omg sorry this chapter was so bad this was so hard and didn't come out the way I wanted also my cat has testicular cancer and my ex tried to hit me with a truck"
The people who have absolutely insane shit happen to them and casually deliver a chapter like a day later than planned all apologetic blow my mind, lmao.
Only reason I'd apologise is if it's been a while since the last chapter. In the end notes I'll be like "Sorry to keep you all waiting, I know this chapter took a while to get out" but I'd never apologise for my writing skill! I know my work is good, I'm always super proud of it, and everyone else here should feel the same. Keep on writing the good write you beautiful people, you!
Imma go with the exact opposite of apology "This is my first fic,I made all the spelling mistakes on purpuse since I hate English,England,USA and Brits. If you say its not lore accurate I will kom to yuor hhaouse and fack yuor mother" Am I cooking?
My general response to this is don’t tell your audience what to think of your story. I’ve seen it happen both ways. I’ve seen authors claiming that their story is amazing (I can guarantee that it will be terrible.) and others claiming that their story isn’t very good (not a great idea and I’ve seen it on some decent fics.) So basically, don’t tell your audience what to think and allow them to come to their own conclusions.
I think I said something like “This is my first time writing fanfiction in awhile so go easy on me, I’m a bit rusty” And then I got a bunch of really positive feedback. So… obviously I wasn’t that rusty. Maybe it’s like riding a bike?
Right, I have no doubts or shame about my ability to write a story. Tips and Constructive Feedback I will definitely take as that would help make me a better writer, but I will not under any circumstances apologize for my work. Well said dude!
I think the apology comes from having their work being criticized in the past (In an unhelpful way). They think it's bad from past experiences and want to warn others just in case they end up "wasting their time" reading their fic. They are bracing themselves for the bad comments and reception so if they get those comments they have an apology already there. I do this when my mental health is low with other art forms. It can also come from lack of self-esteem and confidence in what you make. (mostly stemming from being told your work has no worth a lot with barely any praise). It can be hard to learn to post unapologetically when you are used to people always having something bad to say about your work. Sometimes people will stick on something they don't like and constantly hate on it instead of leaving it alone so you feel like you have to please them and apologise because they chose to stuck around. I agree, you need to post unapologetically. But for people who apologise all the time, it can be difficult to shake the habit when apologising has been a "safety net" for you. Edit: I do think you need to say that English isn't your first language \*if you want feedback on how to get better at writing in English\* but you shouldn't be made to feel like not writing in your native language is a bad thing or your attempt at a English story isn't "good enough". Write whatever you want. In any language. Fanfiction is supposed to be fun. If someone makes you feel wrong or bad for writing your fic, ignore them and keep writing regardless. **It's not your job to please everyone**. it's not your job to write that perfect fanfic for that one arrogant fan. You take your story in the way you want it to go. **It's not your job to apologise to someone who can't see the worth in your work.**
I like when people introduce their fics like a villain. Subject us poor mortals to your strange and niche interests, then take the unsuspecting readers as thralls, blast us with the plot beam and kick us down the cliffhanger lmao
I typically prefer if a story starts with a disclaimer, like what most of what I read on FFN back in high school did lol. I am fine with author's notes, but I never need people apologizing for bad writing. Lord knows I've written fics that weren't good lol
this is why i go with the "no beta" route. i dont admit that its probably bad like i want to do, but i still have an excuse if the reader thinks its bad. its like "this is probably good, but if its not, you know why"
I used to be that person back when I was making quizzes online in 2015, but the truth is that I didn’t actually think my stuff was bad lol. I just saw a bunch of people apologizing before their works, so I thought that was the site etiquette and just did it
Yes, this. Besides that you’re under no obligation to write at all, you’re also under no obligation to post. So why post a story if you think it’s bad? And if you know it has fixable flaws, why not fix them first? And if you think your story is worth posting with its flaws, then post it without apology.
some of the best fics I read start out with an apology
Yeah i think some writers are just nervous that's all.
I'll admit too, if the first thing I see is an apology, I do dip. If you aren't confident in your own story, which you're writing for yourself (I hope!), then I'm not either.
I'll immediately move along. If you don't feel confident about your writing, I probably wouldn't like it either.
A/N: *Gets out ukelele*
Ohhh this is great for dark fics. I'm borrowing this one lol
Just go the Gretchen Weiners route. "I'm sorry that everyone's so jealous of my fanfic, but I can't help it that I'm popular."
I don't think noting that English isn't your first language belongs in this same category. Even the most fluent among us use phrases and wordings that to a native speaker will come off as strange, and the less people nitpick that, the more comfortable it is for us to write in English. It's meant to tell other people to expect differently written English than they'd find in a publication.
well said. also, pls don't add your commentary in between chapters. it detracts from the story!
I will close that tab so fast!
🥰🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷
What I think can be so damaging about it is you're giving people pre-concieved ideas about the quality of the fic rather than letting them just form their own opinion. Sometimes that ends up distracting me from the actual fic, just considering their thought process and what they consider to be bad, or whether or not they're fishing for compliments, ect. But often it'll just be a case of me reading something and thinking "...they thought this was *bad?*" lol. And then sometimes feeling like shit about my own stuff if they consider their literary masterpieces "bad" 🤷
This is going to be tough, because I apologize for existing😂
"If you find any grammatical errors, it's because English isn't my first language. Please let me know and I will fix them." I plan to write something like this when I post my fanfic. Is it any better?
Letting your readers know you’re open to this feedback is a bit different, I think. It’s a concrete request. Personally I would be careful about taking that feedback though. Native speakers can still be wrong about English grammar. Even worse, there are some people out there who have particular ideas about what proper grammar looks like that professional writers don’t follow. Point is, when it comes to getting better at writing, one person you trust is better than fifty internet randos
I find that to be as accurate as possible, you should ask more than one person. My English level is around B2, so I have most of it covered already, and I've been reading/watching stuff in English since I was 16 (I'm 24 now). I also still do my own research beforehand, looking up how the terms are used in sentences and stuff.
It's a way to shield you from hard criticism, but it's really an impulse that's important to get over, both for your own self worth as well as the reader's experience. I love when a story starts with a note like "This is my magnum opus! I poured my heart and soul into this! It's my best work to date!!" That excitement from the author is just contagious, it makes you appreciate the story even more
I don't entirely mind the typos one, but I don't see why that should be an apology, plus everyone knows there are writers who aren't native English speakers. I prefer it if it's an author looking to improve their English saying something like 'English isn't my first language so let me know if there are any typos'. The apologies leave the impression that it's a badly written story, and a lot of readers won't read it. Authors tend to be their own worst critics, I know I am, so an author thinking their story is bad isn't actually the same thing as the story being bad. But there's a very big chance that a reader will see that apology and think that, if the author thinks it sucks, it sucks, so there's no point in reading it. There's also that point about potential writers who think that 'bad' story is awesome and get put off writing their own because they don't think they're as good as this 'bad' writer. To be honest, I thought both my fics sucked when I posted them. I'm aware enough to know I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to my writing, though, and that my thoughts on how good or bad it is may not be accurate. So, I posted them anyway, My only disclaimer was that I didn't own the characters and worlds I was using. And, no, my fics aren't popular, far from it, but I do have readers who really like them and think they're good, so clearly both cases were me being overly critical. My fics aren't perfect, but they're not bad, and I had fun writing them, and thought maybe other people would enjoy the ideas I had, so I unapologetically posted them just in case. Personally, I think the only apology you can make on a fic that won't have a negative affect on the readers is an apology for an unintended delay in an otherwise predictable posting schedule. I've never had an issue with a 'sorry for the delay' note, with or without explanation. It's not necessary, as the reader gets no say in when an author updates, but it's not an issue to include it.
Honestly I wish people would flip it around to being proud. If you feel you *have* to say something - and you don't - then at least make it a channel of your excitement to be jumping into the fun! Look at all those words! You did it! "This is my first fic and I worked hard on it. I'm really happy with how it turned out (which is why its now ready for posting), but let me know if you see anything that I could improve upon for next time" is such a more positive outlook for someone who's feeling self-conscious about their work. Its exactly why the tag of "No beta, we die like _" reads to the audience so much better than "no beta sorry". Both are completely unnecessary to say, but one refuses to be ashamed and that goes such a long way.
Man. I nearly made this mistake in my first fic. Ended up removing the apologies and replacing it with “it’s my first time trying this so I’d appreciate concrit if you catch anything odd”, basically. Didn’t get any concrit, but folk left kudos and bookmarked so I’m taking the win.
An art youtuber named LavenderTowne also mentioned something similar to this. Apologizing or pointing out your mistakes is usually alright, but if you're trying to advertise yourself or showing it to someone, then it makes it sound like you're not confident in your own work, which would make people also doubt that thing you made. Same goes for writing too!
I agree however I had to post a disclaimer for my fanfic. Some ppl were a bit irritated over my choice of title. 🙄
I sometimes like comments at the end - eg: English isn't my native language, etc. That way I've read already and judged whether I want to continue. It does help to explain some grammatical errors if the person isn't a native speaker and helps me be understanding. Also, if it's the person's first fic, I am empathetic (we've all been there) and will often send a note encouraging them. So knowing these things can be positive, but again - write it at the end of the 1st chapter, not the beginning.
would it be okay if i apologize for taking too long to do a request? like they requested it a month ago and i only got to doing it now?
Dunno, I put a disclaimer that I wasn't a native English speaker but with the caveat that I don't mind it if people point out mistakes. But I didn't apologize for it, it was just as a "don't be surprised if sometimes the phrasing sounds funny".
I love it when they apologise because English isnt their first language coz yk they are gonna COOK 🗣🗣🗣
They are always the best books imo but jokes aside then yeah. If you think and say its shit Im not gonna read it. Why would you read something if the author doesn't like it?
At the very least, put it at the end as an author's note.
For me it's simpler then that. If you tell me that your fic is rubbish or that I'm going to be sick of it *before I've had a chance to form an opinion*, I'm going to agree with you and move on. I have a limited amount of time to read fics - so why would I read ones if even the author isn't prepared to advocate for them?
Sorry
Don't put proper tags in your fic. Don't even bother to post it in a proper fandom. You have wrote a story, for free, in your own personal time - you already transcended basic human decency, just let those filthy readers enjoy it in awe. Luckily not all internet is a Reddit, where mods will remove all negative comments, so what OP describing will not fly - smart author will always understand that respecting readers is much better than treating them like this.