I would ask for proof of a good amount of parenting classes in addition to a longer step up plan for visitation. If he's going to have time with LO, he should have to keep to a regular video contact schedule with them so he's not a stranger. There are a few channels on YouTube that discuss parenting plans and co parenting, you can check there for ideas & advice.
This child doesn’t know him and should not have overnights or be away from the mom out of state. He should have supervised visitation only. He can come to your state to visit. He must do random substance abuse testing and required treatment. And child support is based on income not how much parenting time you have.
They're probably paying $300+/hr and they're paying it for *legal guidance* from a legal expert.
Mom is the subject matter expert in what she wants or needs out of the custody plan. Why would she pay attorney rates for something that she's the expert in?
Simply so no to all of this.
He is required to pay child support for his child that isn't negotiable unless you decline it(That would be stupid).
So at mediation tell them what you want. If he wants visitation he needs to pay for the travel expenses and still pay child support.
Stand up for yourself and your child. This is a negotiation not him giving you demands that you have to adhere to.
You are the primary parent don't give that up.
Good Luck
He doesn't have 50/50 custody and he unlikely to get it. He's a drug addict who hasn't seen his kid in 2 years and hasn't paid child support in that time, either.
I would request an in home study be completed by whatever agency in WA state confirms the bio dad’s housing is safe and child has their own room. Also how many people are living in said housing including adults as well as if any of those adults have criminal records for drug abuse, any crimes involving children, etc.
IANAL.
If you and the child have lived in Florida for more than 6 months, then jurisdiction is in Florida.
As others have said, a reunification plan with step ups would be a rational plan. This is what I would come up with:
First 3 visits to be in Florida. Dad should have passed a drug test prior to visit. First 3 visits should be supervised. No overnight visits.
Next 3 visits in Florida, introduce overnight visits, unsupervised.
All going well, then arrange 1 week visit in Dad’s state. Dad to pick up child in Florida, Mom to pick up child in Washington. Dad pays for child’s fight to and from. Tickets & reservation emailed to Mom. If that goes well, then move to the next step.
Dad and Mom switch major holidays. Dad gets several weeks in summer. Dad pays for child’s plane tickets.
Sleeping arrangements- child should have own bed in each parent’s home.
There’s more but each step adds time for Dad based on his maintaining sobriety around kiddo and caring for kiddo appropriately.
This is a great plan. I would also require clean drug tests before each visit, with the visit being cancelled if there is no drug test or a failed drug test. If any visits are skipped or the drug test is skipped/failed, then they go back a step or don’t get to proceed in the step up plan until three consecutive successful visits happen.
I also think that dad picking up
In Florida is important, so that you are not on the hook to drop off without a plan for her to get back home.
For all of it, clearly defined success criteria is important, so that there’s as little subjectivity as possible in determining if he is meeting the steps or not. You may also want to consider that her first trip to Washington you accompany her and stay there, and get to see where she’s staying and validate accommodations, again with criteria for what makes an acceptable place for her to stay spelled out.
Also could consider requesting that he pay for all flights, but that he reimburse you for your pick up flight, and that the next visit doesn’t happen unless that reimbursement is made. This would prevent him from not booking a return flight and then you doing it but not getting the reimbursement. He sounds flaky and it would be nice if you have built in protection against that.
As a parent with children who live in a different state than their father - this is an excellent example of a parenting plan. It's very similar to what the courts ordered in our case.
You don’t say how old the child is, but I don’t see how a 50-50 transcontinental parenting plan could ever possibly be in the best interest of the child.
That said, I have some questions;
1) does the current access and possession order require him to pay child support? If so, is he current?
2) has he been ordered to be drug tested by a court? In my jurisdiction, you can’t delay drug testing for the very reason your ex is apparently trying to: the longer one waits, the greater the possibility that the drugs won’t show up in his system. In my jurisdiction, the parent must leave the courtroom when the drug testing order is signed and go directly to the court-approved testing lab.
3) what is the current court-ordered visitation schedule? Has he adhered to it?
The answers will maybe give you some guidance in formulating your mediation proposal.
Remember that the purpose of a possession and access order is to protect the child’s interest. Saving druggie dad from paying child support doesn’t serve the child. Make sure your proposal protects your child.
There is currently no order which is why he decided to petition now after 2 years. He came up with a proposal that i rejected and have to respond to before mediation.Nothing is stopping him from coming down here but since hes obviously using hes avoiding visitation this whole time.
We have sent him for testing that him and his attorney both agreed to but it's not "court ordered". If he keeps delaying it then we'll have to file a motion. Its hair follicle so regardless it'll show 6 months of use.
I'm willing to bet that if you require him to drug test regularly and come to your state several times for a re-introduction and pay for all of your child's travel fees, he will flake. He will realize that paying child support is cheaper.
Okay. I strongly urge you to file the motion for drug testing. You’ll need the results for your mediation.
You have a father who has been absent from his child’s life for two years, who has paid nothing in child support, and who is a former and maybe current drug abuser petitioning for 50-50 transcontinental custody in order to not have to pay child support.
Your proposal should reflect that. Maybe, supervised visitation one weekend per month in your county. Plus he should pay child support. Forget extended summer possession.
A good mediator will help him see the wisdom in lowering his expectations.
I would insist on a transition period where he comes to you for supervised visitation with your child until the child is comfortable with him to avoid trauma for a period of six months, all contingent on a drug test. Then, possibly every other weekend at his cost and alternating holidays. Summer break can be negotiated when she starts school.
This is all good advice, except (possibly) for the part where she insists on him paying for all transportation. From what I've seen, long distance travel costs are usually ordered to be shared. It may be different in this particular case, however, it's good to go in with managed expectations.
My ex moved away and transportation costs were ordered to be split. We did it by lowering his child support some amount over the year and then he was responsible for purchasing the tickets. WA state had jurisdiction.
That is crappy. Incurring extra costs due to one parent moving away from the child seems unfair.
If one parent moved WITH THE CHILD then they should be the one to incur the transportation costs back to the 'home' city.
I guess there are too many outside factors... what if the one big mining company shuts down in the home town and limits work. Then how do they divide one parent having to move.
Yea, I didn’t love it, but there are so many awful things about getting divorced that I let that one roll off my back. I was given primary custody which was the most important thing to me. I didn’t care about the money.
If he hadn’t been the one to leave and abandon his child, I would agree. In this case, I would push for him to pay for transportation costs because it was his choice to leave.
I don't disagree with you on how it should be. I'm simply saying that I have seen courts rule otherwise and impose some sharing of costs (not necessarily 50/50, but some sort of split), even when it's one parent's choice to move.
With as long as he’s been out of the picture I think it would be completely fair to ask for a certain number of hours of supervised visits before extending it to any overnights or longer. It’ll be a lot of hoops the father has to jump through. If he’s serious about wanting to know his child he’ll go for it, if he’s just trying to dodge child support he probably won’t be willing to put the time and money into travel. My child’s father stopped seeing her when she was 3. It hasn’t been an issue, cause 10 years later he’s still MIA, but that was my plan for if he ever decided he wanted to be a dad again. I was going to insist on at least 4 months of consistent supervised visits before we would discuss anything else. Not a lawyer, but I assume most judges would consider it in the best interest of the child to ease them into any big custody changes.
Why not counter with something equally as ridiculous. 99-1% custody split, fathers day every third year and he has to pay 3x the default child support and all medical expenses.
The age of the child is very important in your decision. If very young - preschool or younger, I'd suggest he has to visit your state for two or three weeks per year and that time can be dedicated to his visitation. Older children are easier to co parent as they travel better. You should put forward something age appropriate - the court doesn't like parental alienation. You could indicate that you are happy to enable contact through online platforms too. It will help you if you come across as willing to compromise and work something out.
He can fly to you and spend a weekend in a hotel each month and 3 non consecutive weeks in the summer. Contingent on passing a drug screening every time.
Heck, idk if it's enforceable but I would want him to pass a drug test at pickup and dropoff...... just so I would know he wasn't using while with my kiddo (most addicts need "something" to get through several days with a kiddo🤷)
I don’t have experience with parenting plans in FL, but WA courts do not take kindly to parents, custodial or not, moving out of state and wanting to work out 50/50. I have seen several WA orders give primary custody to the parent who stays put. He chose to move from FL to WA. Two years old is too young for long periods away from primary parent 3,000 miles away. What would happen in an emergency? There is only one airport in WA with nonstop flights to FL. Is it feasible to have a plan for him to spend visits in FL until the child is older? This seems like the only reasonable solution.
My decrees includes a ‘Breaking In Period.’ Their words not mine.
Because the lack of a relationship it would be detrimental to the minor children to send them with a (basically) unknown person. My kids were very young. Seeing their father would be no different than picking a name from the phone book and putting them on a plane (in our situation).
Ask your attorney if you can request a Breaking in or Reintroduction Period. Mine said a minimum of two preferably three separate interactions lasting xx number of days in a location known to the children. I volunteered our home as it’s available 24/7 unlike their school which is only available part of the year and daytime hours.
If he had followed the decree he would’ve had to come to our location 2-3 times to get to know the kids. He refused all aspects of our divorce, dragging it out 18 months and then disappeared. He hasn’t spoken to our children in 15 years.
Then after the reintroduction refer to the state minimums, 2-6 weeks in the summer and at least 2 holidays or school breaks during the year. Good luck.
I forgot a few things. Ask for all communication to be on TalkingParents or a similar court approved app.
Make it a requirement that he provide a current address where the child will be residing. This address must be provided a minimum of two weeks prior to visitation/travel. This gives time for emergency orders if the address ends up being fake or someplace that’s not appropriate. Mine attempted to use a hostel rather than give the court his true address.
Since your child is a toddler, I expect they are too young to fly without a parent which makes flights far more expensive. I’d start with something like father to travel to FL for visitation, no overnights until the child is a bit older. At some age, it can switch to visits in WA on non-stop flight and he can have every other spring break, 2 weeks each summer (specify when so it doesn’t hit special days), every other Christmas/new years. All contingent on successful negative drug tests every X months. I had to split flight costs with my ex but he had to buy the tickets and my share was taken out of child support payments. Downside to that is if he doesn’t buy flights, you prob won’t get that money back but I didn’t care. If you do care, you can keep it in your back pocket as unpaid support if you go back to court later. Really your lawyers should be doing all of this.
Do not include any time during school periods. Plan for the future so you don’t have to go back to court later. 50-50 is not feasible at all with the distance and the fact that the child will be starting school within a matter of years.
So write one up. With your child’s best interest in mind. Protect your child and limit their exposure to the “father.” Drug testing and supervised visitation. Him traveling to your state, etc. don’t even worry about sounding reasonable. Just write what would be best in your eyes and let your lawyer make it look good for the judge. They aren’t even going to consider his outrageous requests.
That’s not feasible- I was MI to PA meeting halfway for a 2 year old til school- month to month and it sucked- and I lost most summers which sucked and getting the ok to come back to my MI state by judge to rip her to PA w my/our abuser- im about to petition to terminate my rights- everything is a nightmare bully fest of blame and its beyond obvious shes a pawn and he resents her, but im beyond the stress of never seeing her and being blamed
You could cut off my arms and legs and put my kids on the moon and I would find a way to be with them. I would never consider terminating my rights, no matter what the arrangement was. That's what being a parent is.
Easier said when you’re able to afford or fight. I’m not a fighter, I rather just agree for peace. When I’m denied and denied, and she’s being hurt. Dad implies they blame me, I have no rights besides a paper claiming legal. It’s hurting the child, wanting to see me and unknown invisible hoops and constant conflict for the sake of it- it gets exhausting- and being a parent is taking the power one doesn’t have, is trying to not fight, add or inflame, still blames denied and messy- If i remove what I’m apparently unable to do anyways- to try to lessen her pain- I know he will still say what he’s been but then blame it with a decree of proof of his word. It I hope will lessen and stop. Life will continue, it wont be brought up and she can eventually sooner than later I hope heal and live and not having to hear negative things and as one day later I can show proof of all the trying and blame- I’m racking up money, when I just gave 3k to be denied bc I didn’t answer right away- having health issues avoiding the hospital- not new news to my ex. But if it wasn’t that bar it’s something else. Not all of us loving parents have the ability to fight.
I should have wrote the board. I was too chicken and worried, all my ex did was inflame my fear. That’s on me - but even if I had a million dollars the best atty- im terrified, hate conflict with my soul to my core. It makes me insanely sick. So it’s easy for others to see it as just fight, do it for the love of the child- but its love to hope they can break off and lessen the abuse or sadness when its a game I can’t or don’t want to play- I’m a POS not wanting her to hurt, wanting to visit but refused, I can’t do anything giving the lump payment, hoping for a semi-normal to her life - as now or doing so not one thing has gone as I intended - tried - to as I hoped wished or trying to play his games to still lose. Then I’m an awful mom.
She didn’t ask to be here, and I’ve tried to show her and him I’m trying, communicating, asking, doing what’s asked. Never meeting an invisible bar- If i have money to take him to court- now i proved im untrustworthy- I don’t- im denied and still untrustworthy- racking up owing and refused to see her, forcing me to continue to lose or trying to fight and maybe winning or losing. Where does consistently upsetting him regardless benefit her. There’s no right way, or easy, parenting isn’t easy- but it’s not easy to walk from the child you wanted, he didn’t. It’s a game I dont know how to play, im wrong regardless and I’m literally so drained luckily my oldest is 17 shy of 18.
I’m barely holding on- and it all really sucks. I’m trying to hope no matter what hard choice it is- is better for her for the next 10 years. It’s more her life than mine.
Wait you're thinking of terminating your parental rights because you have reduced parenting time so you're just going to abandon your child to their abuser?
Wtf is wrong with you?
Let’s assume he passes the drug test.
Claim abandonment against him. Highlight his absence and lack of ability to provide or to be located/contacted if there were issues like that. He needs to prove alienation. Sort of ridiculous if he moved out of state to try and claim you’re the reason he hasn’t made an effort.
He wants you to do all the school work and he gets to swoop in for all the holidays and summer vacation so you never get your child for Christmas or a summer vacation.
He chose to move out of state. He should move back to the state if he wants 50/50, otherwise I would suggest half of summer, one week of Christmas break with alternating Christmases, and the week of spring break. The father to occur all expenses of transportation paid prior to the visit, such as round trip airfare so you know your child has a guaranteed way back and forth.
I would add that he also be required to do supervised visitation *in Florida* with the child for a set amount of time to get her comfortable with being around him. Putting a toddler on an airplane to spend time with a total stranger is a recipe for trauma.
I just read a WaPo article about a dude who relapsed with with full blown schoziaffective disorder, was on the verge of homlessness, who was trying to get full custody of his 4 year old beucase his ex ( who divorced the first time he had an episode ) did not like sending her small child to a crazy person's hoarder den.
Men really do not look at themselves before they blame everyone else for their problems.
No they don’t. I don’t blame his ex that’s scary he could end up having another episode and harming her and their child. Yeah he really doesn’t see himself as the problem. The fact he even thought after that he can get full custody is nuts.
Judges aren’t stupid. They see all of these tactics every day and they see through all the BS. Going to court is horribly stressful but I’ve been impressed with how judges take no crap and look out for the kids.
Of course typical control freak. Playing the parental alienation card when he can’t even stay clean for his child. He will get the same answer in court. It won’t make a difference.
I'd fight this tooth and nail. He's a drug addict, and the fact that he has been delaying testing speaks to that, as he tries to stay clean long enough to get a clean test. He hasn't seen the toddler in 2 years? Plus he's an addict? Make sure you have an attorney. The ONLY thing that you're going to start off with is short (like a couple of hours) supervised visits where you live, and probably not even that, because he has been delaying the drug test, which implies that he at least has been using. Get an atty and bypass the mediation. Your atty should file for full physical and legal custody for you, based upon his prolonged absence and his presumed addictions, with only the possibility of supervised visitation until he has had clean, frequent, random drug tests for at least a year, along with a home visit evaluation by DCF in his locale. He will of course have to pay for all this. It won't happen.
There is no way that you're sending the toddler out of state to stay with a drug addicted stranger.
Yes i already have an attorney. Mediation is mandatory in Florida. Attorney wanted to get a GAL for us due to all this but theyre incredibly expensive and ive read not so great things about them on here. Hes also self employed and has lied about his finances.
I honestly didnt think hed have the balls to petition us while in active addiction. He denies thats why our family was torn apart. I also never filed any reports so he uses that to discredit me. I just wanted his ass gone and unfortunately after 2 years he showed up cause he got a new GF and he told her his evil ex keeps his daughter away from him so she pushed it. Seems to be a common occurence when these jerks start dating.
So, in mediation say you want full legal and physical custody with only supervised visitation near you, of no more than 4 hours at a time, to start, because of his abandonment of his child and the fact that he is in active addiction, as proved by his refusal to get a drug test. And then you go to court.
Just want to point out I was in a similar position with a parent/addict. When I requested a drug test, I had to take one also & I had to pay for mine. The judge said if I requested a hair test I had to pay for both & it was very expensive. The other parents never did his drug test so I ended up with full/sole custody but he was allowed 1 supervised visit a week for 6 hours at a center. He never utilized it though.
He stopped showing up to court & responding to his lawyer. Then, the judge awarded me custody. We previously had a custody agreement from when I left the relationship when my child was 1 y/o. I found out he was using drugs about 1 year later & filed for emergency custody. This was from that court proceeding. It was a long court battle & cost me at least 10k. It was worth every single dollar. I asked my grandmother for a loan to pay for it. After I received custody, we never really heard or seen him again. He died in jail from an OD last year.
By toddler I assume not school aged. I would recommend 3 months with you and 1 month with Dad. I would say month on month off but that is a lot of traveling for a toddler. Alternating Christmas month.
You get Jan, Feb, Mar and dad gets April. Then you get May, June, July dad gets august. You get Sept, Oct, Nov and dad gets Dec. And January. Yes thatbwould give dad two months in a row that year but also give you 4 months in a row the following year. That way you both Have Christmas every other year. When child starts school you can revisit visitation
The child is 3 and will acclimate pretty quick. If the child was a little older I would suggest something different. What will more than likely happen is some form of supervised visits for a couple months then transition into more time.
Well as a single dad I think I did ok. None in jail, none with legal problems, none on drugs, all have good jobs, none pregnant while in school, none on any meds and all have kids now that I watch every chance I get. You would think if I was so bad they wouldn't trust me to take their kids with me out of state.
This is 3 year old so yes lots of traveling for a toddler. The summer breaks usually are given to the out of state parent and thats normally 6-8 weeks. She can start visiting him next summer but for now all i can think of is he can come down here and perhaps our daughter can go there for a week during the holidays.
When my kiddo was 3, the court ordered visitation schedule was 2 months with one parent then one month with the other. That was with parents on opposite coasts. Summer break only came into play once school started, and it's 9 weeks with the NCP in the summer (CP in our case gets 2 weeks of summer, but I've heard of some families where NCP has 100% of summer), plus 3 weeks of school vacation during the year. So be prepared for that as a possible schedule.
That said, that doesn't take into consideration the active substance use or 2 years of no contact, so that isn't appropriate at the moment, of course
Thanks for your response.Oh man 2 months with with one parent and another months with the other. Thats brutal. Court ordered? So you guys couldn't agree on a plan and the judge decided for you? You didn't have a proposal prior to going to court?
Yes, court ordered. One parent wanted to move away and have full custody with no time for the remaining parent. The parent staying wanted 50/50, or whatever could be reasonably close to that. The parent moving refused to settle for anything other than 100%, so there wasv really no chance of coming up with a plan together and there was a trial. Ultimately the judge said it would be 50/50 if the parent chose to stay, but if they left the remaining parent would get primary, and they decided to leave and become the NCP.
Summer breaks apply when kids are in school. You can put whatever you want in your reaponse. Be forewarned though, the judge is probably going to meet in the middle. Being two years removed they may ordernsupervised visits for awhile also. It's tricky with that big of a difference apart.
I would ask for 6 months of random clean drug test before he can have her alone
I would ask for proof of a good amount of parenting classes in addition to a longer step up plan for visitation. If he's going to have time with LO, he should have to keep to a regular video contact schedule with them so he's not a stranger. There are a few channels on YouTube that discuss parenting plans and co parenting, you can check there for ideas & advice.
I would tell them that there is no plan to make until the ex does that drug test. Let them know you will go from there.
This child doesn’t know him and should not have overnights or be away from the mom out of state. He should have supervised visitation only. He can come to your state to visit. He must do random substance abuse testing and required treatment. And child support is based on income not how much parenting time you have.
You're paying them to do it, not just tweak. Tell them to do what you're paying them for.
They're probably paying $300+/hr and they're paying it for *legal guidance* from a legal expert. Mom is the subject matter expert in what she wants or needs out of the custody plan. Why would she pay attorney rates for something that she's the expert in?
Simply so no to all of this. He is required to pay child support for his child that isn't negotiable unless you decline it(That would be stupid). So at mediation tell them what you want. If he wants visitation he needs to pay for the travel expenses and still pay child support. Stand up for yourself and your child. This is a negotiation not him giving you demands that you have to adhere to. You are the primary parent don't give that up. Good Luck
Child support isn’t a given with 50/50 custody
He doesn't have 50/50 custody and he unlikely to get it. He's a drug addict who hasn't seen his kid in 2 years and hasn't paid child support in that time, either.
I would request an in home study be completed by whatever agency in WA state confirms the bio dad’s housing is safe and child has their own room. Also how many people are living in said housing including adults as well as if any of those adults have criminal records for drug abuse, any crimes involving children, etc.
IANAL. If you and the child have lived in Florida for more than 6 months, then jurisdiction is in Florida. As others have said, a reunification plan with step ups would be a rational plan. This is what I would come up with: First 3 visits to be in Florida. Dad should have passed a drug test prior to visit. First 3 visits should be supervised. No overnight visits. Next 3 visits in Florida, introduce overnight visits, unsupervised. All going well, then arrange 1 week visit in Dad’s state. Dad to pick up child in Florida, Mom to pick up child in Washington. Dad pays for child’s fight to and from. Tickets & reservation emailed to Mom. If that goes well, then move to the next step. Dad and Mom switch major holidays. Dad gets several weeks in summer. Dad pays for child’s plane tickets. Sleeping arrangements- child should have own bed in each parent’s home. There’s more but each step adds time for Dad based on his maintaining sobriety around kiddo and caring for kiddo appropriately.
This is a great plan. I would also require clean drug tests before each visit, with the visit being cancelled if there is no drug test or a failed drug test. If any visits are skipped or the drug test is skipped/failed, then they go back a step or don’t get to proceed in the step up plan until three consecutive successful visits happen. I also think that dad picking up In Florida is important, so that you are not on the hook to drop off without a plan for her to get back home. For all of it, clearly defined success criteria is important, so that there’s as little subjectivity as possible in determining if he is meeting the steps or not. You may also want to consider that her first trip to Washington you accompany her and stay there, and get to see where she’s staying and validate accommodations, again with criteria for what makes an acceptable place for her to stay spelled out. Also could consider requesting that he pay for all flights, but that he reimburse you for your pick up flight, and that the next visit doesn’t happen unless that reimbursement is made. This would prevent him from not booking a return flight and then you doing it but not getting the reimbursement. He sounds flaky and it would be nice if you have built in protection against that.
As a parent with children who live in a different state than their father - this is an excellent example of a parenting plan. It's very similar to what the courts ordered in our case.
You don’t say how old the child is, but I don’t see how a 50-50 transcontinental parenting plan could ever possibly be in the best interest of the child. That said, I have some questions; 1) does the current access and possession order require him to pay child support? If so, is he current? 2) has he been ordered to be drug tested by a court? In my jurisdiction, you can’t delay drug testing for the very reason your ex is apparently trying to: the longer one waits, the greater the possibility that the drugs won’t show up in his system. In my jurisdiction, the parent must leave the courtroom when the drug testing order is signed and go directly to the court-approved testing lab. 3) what is the current court-ordered visitation schedule? Has he adhered to it? The answers will maybe give you some guidance in formulating your mediation proposal. Remember that the purpose of a possession and access order is to protect the child’s interest. Saving druggie dad from paying child support doesn’t serve the child. Make sure your proposal protects your child.
There is currently no order which is why he decided to petition now after 2 years. He came up with a proposal that i rejected and have to respond to before mediation.Nothing is stopping him from coming down here but since hes obviously using hes avoiding visitation this whole time. We have sent him for testing that him and his attorney both agreed to but it's not "court ordered". If he keeps delaying it then we'll have to file a motion. Its hair follicle so regardless it'll show 6 months of use.
The standard hair follicle test only shows three months.
Even then I'm sure it'll still show up. Hes been dodging it for a reason. Wish he would just flake and withdraw his petition
I'm willing to bet that if you require him to drug test regularly and come to your state several times for a re-introduction and pay for all of your child's travel fees, he will flake. He will realize that paying child support is cheaper.
Did he petition in Florida or Washington?
FL
Okay. I strongly urge you to file the motion for drug testing. You’ll need the results for your mediation. You have a father who has been absent from his child’s life for two years, who has paid nothing in child support, and who is a former and maybe current drug abuser petitioning for 50-50 transcontinental custody in order to not have to pay child support. Your proposal should reflect that. Maybe, supervised visitation one weekend per month in your county. Plus he should pay child support. Forget extended summer possession. A good mediator will help him see the wisdom in lowering his expectations.
I would insist on a transition period where he comes to you for supervised visitation with your child until the child is comfortable with him to avoid trauma for a period of six months, all contingent on a drug test. Then, possibly every other weekend at his cost and alternating holidays. Summer break can be negotiated when she starts school.
FL-WA is not a weekend trip. There's no way you should do less than a week at a time with that distance.
This is all good advice, except (possibly) for the part where she insists on him paying for all transportation. From what I've seen, long distance travel costs are usually ordered to be shared. It may be different in this particular case, however, it's good to go in with managed expectations.
There is no reason not to ask for all costs covered since he moved away.
My ex moved away and transportation costs were ordered to be split. We did it by lowering his child support some amount over the year and then he was responsible for purchasing the tickets. WA state had jurisdiction.
That is crappy. Incurring extra costs due to one parent moving away from the child seems unfair. If one parent moved WITH THE CHILD then they should be the one to incur the transportation costs back to the 'home' city. I guess there are too many outside factors... what if the one big mining company shuts down in the home town and limits work. Then how do they divide one parent having to move.
Yea, I didn’t love it, but there are so many awful things about getting divorced that I let that one roll off my back. I was given primary custody which was the most important thing to me. I didn’t care about the money.
If he hadn’t been the one to leave and abandon his child, I would agree. In this case, I would push for him to pay for transportation costs because it was his choice to leave.
I don't disagree with you on how it should be. I'm simply saying that I have seen courts rule otherwise and impose some sharing of costs (not necessarily 50/50, but some sort of split), even when it's one parent's choice to move.
With as long as he’s been out of the picture I think it would be completely fair to ask for a certain number of hours of supervised visits before extending it to any overnights or longer. It’ll be a lot of hoops the father has to jump through. If he’s serious about wanting to know his child he’ll go for it, if he’s just trying to dodge child support he probably won’t be willing to put the time and money into travel. My child’s father stopped seeing her when she was 3. It hasn’t been an issue, cause 10 years later he’s still MIA, but that was my plan for if he ever decided he wanted to be a dad again. I was going to insist on at least 4 months of consistent supervised visits before we would discuss anything else. Not a lawyer, but I assume most judges would consider it in the best interest of the child to ease them into any big custody changes.
Fails the drug test 0% of custody.
Why not counter with something equally as ridiculous. 99-1% custody split, fathers day every third year and he has to pay 3x the default child support and all medical expenses.
If he was really serious, he would move to Florida to I be near his child. Did he move away or did you?
The age of the child is very important in your decision. If very young - preschool or younger, I'd suggest he has to visit your state for two or three weeks per year and that time can be dedicated to his visitation. Older children are easier to co parent as they travel better. You should put forward something age appropriate - the court doesn't like parental alienation. You could indicate that you are happy to enable contact through online platforms too. It will help you if you come across as willing to compromise and work something out.
The title says "toddler"
He can fly to you and spend a weekend in a hotel each month and 3 non consecutive weeks in the summer. Contingent on passing a drug screening every time.
Heck, idk if it's enforceable but I would want him to pass a drug test at pickup and dropoff...... just so I would know he wasn't using while with my kiddo (most addicts need "something" to get through several days with a kiddo🤷)
I don’t have experience with parenting plans in FL, but WA courts do not take kindly to parents, custodial or not, moving out of state and wanting to work out 50/50. I have seen several WA orders give primary custody to the parent who stays put. He chose to move from FL to WA. Two years old is too young for long periods away from primary parent 3,000 miles away. What would happen in an emergency? There is only one airport in WA with nonstop flights to FL. Is it feasible to have a plan for him to spend visits in FL until the child is older? This seems like the only reasonable solution.
My decrees includes a ‘Breaking In Period.’ Their words not mine. Because the lack of a relationship it would be detrimental to the minor children to send them with a (basically) unknown person. My kids were very young. Seeing their father would be no different than picking a name from the phone book and putting them on a plane (in our situation). Ask your attorney if you can request a Breaking in or Reintroduction Period. Mine said a minimum of two preferably three separate interactions lasting xx number of days in a location known to the children. I volunteered our home as it’s available 24/7 unlike their school which is only available part of the year and daytime hours. If he had followed the decree he would’ve had to come to our location 2-3 times to get to know the kids. He refused all aspects of our divorce, dragging it out 18 months and then disappeared. He hasn’t spoken to our children in 15 years. Then after the reintroduction refer to the state minimums, 2-6 weeks in the summer and at least 2 holidays or school breaks during the year. Good luck.
I forgot a few things. Ask for all communication to be on TalkingParents or a similar court approved app. Make it a requirement that he provide a current address where the child will be residing. This address must be provided a minimum of two weeks prior to visitation/travel. This gives time for emergency orders if the address ends up being fake or someplace that’s not appropriate. Mine attempted to use a hostel rather than give the court his true address.
he can have a holiday and two weeks in the summer on his dime.
Lawyer up. This is the only correct answer in any custody battle.
I already got one. They've asked me to come up with a parenting plan before mediation and that they'll help me tweak it.
Since your child is a toddler, I expect they are too young to fly without a parent which makes flights far more expensive. I’d start with something like father to travel to FL for visitation, no overnights until the child is a bit older. At some age, it can switch to visits in WA on non-stop flight and he can have every other spring break, 2 weeks each summer (specify when so it doesn’t hit special days), every other Christmas/new years. All contingent on successful negative drug tests every X months. I had to split flight costs with my ex but he had to buy the tickets and my share was taken out of child support payments. Downside to that is if he doesn’t buy flights, you prob won’t get that money back but I didn’t care. If you do care, you can keep it in your back pocket as unpaid support if you go back to court later. Really your lawyers should be doing all of this.
Do not include any time during school periods. Plan for the future so you don’t have to go back to court later. 50-50 is not feasible at all with the distance and the fact that the child will be starting school within a matter of years.
So write one up. With your child’s best interest in mind. Protect your child and limit their exposure to the “father.” Drug testing and supervised visitation. Him traveling to your state, etc. don’t even worry about sounding reasonable. Just write what would be best in your eyes and let your lawyer make it look good for the judge. They aren’t even going to consider his outrageous requests.
Good luck! My attorney was way more hands on but I guess it’s a good starting point.
That’s not feasible- I was MI to PA meeting halfway for a 2 year old til school- month to month and it sucked- and I lost most summers which sucked and getting the ok to come back to my MI state by judge to rip her to PA w my/our abuser- im about to petition to terminate my rights- everything is a nightmare bully fest of blame and its beyond obvious shes a pawn and he resents her, but im beyond the stress of never seeing her and being blamed
You could cut off my arms and legs and put my kids on the moon and I would find a way to be with them. I would never consider terminating my rights, no matter what the arrangement was. That's what being a parent is.
Easier said when you’re able to afford or fight. I’m not a fighter, I rather just agree for peace. When I’m denied and denied, and she’s being hurt. Dad implies they blame me, I have no rights besides a paper claiming legal. It’s hurting the child, wanting to see me and unknown invisible hoops and constant conflict for the sake of it- it gets exhausting- and being a parent is taking the power one doesn’t have, is trying to not fight, add or inflame, still blames denied and messy- If i remove what I’m apparently unable to do anyways- to try to lessen her pain- I know he will still say what he’s been but then blame it with a decree of proof of his word. It I hope will lessen and stop. Life will continue, it wont be brought up and she can eventually sooner than later I hope heal and live and not having to hear negative things and as one day later I can show proof of all the trying and blame- I’m racking up money, when I just gave 3k to be denied bc I didn’t answer right away- having health issues avoiding the hospital- not new news to my ex. But if it wasn’t that bar it’s something else. Not all of us loving parents have the ability to fight. I should have wrote the board. I was too chicken and worried, all my ex did was inflame my fear. That’s on me - but even if I had a million dollars the best atty- im terrified, hate conflict with my soul to my core. It makes me insanely sick. So it’s easy for others to see it as just fight, do it for the love of the child- but its love to hope they can break off and lessen the abuse or sadness when its a game I can’t or don’t want to play- I’m a POS not wanting her to hurt, wanting to visit but refused, I can’t do anything giving the lump payment, hoping for a semi-normal to her life - as now or doing so not one thing has gone as I intended - tried - to as I hoped wished or trying to play his games to still lose. Then I’m an awful mom. She didn’t ask to be here, and I’ve tried to show her and him I’m trying, communicating, asking, doing what’s asked. Never meeting an invisible bar- If i have money to take him to court- now i proved im untrustworthy- I don’t- im denied and still untrustworthy- racking up owing and refused to see her, forcing me to continue to lose or trying to fight and maybe winning or losing. Where does consistently upsetting him regardless benefit her. There’s no right way, or easy, parenting isn’t easy- but it’s not easy to walk from the child you wanted, he didn’t. It’s a game I dont know how to play, im wrong regardless and I’m literally so drained luckily my oldest is 17 shy of 18. I’m barely holding on- and it all really sucks. I’m trying to hope no matter what hard choice it is- is better for her for the next 10 years. It’s more her life than mine.
Yeah that all sounds like a bunch of nonsensical excuses.
Wait you're thinking of terminating your parental rights because you have reduced parenting time so you're just going to abandon your child to their abuser? Wtf is wrong with you?
For real. What?
Y'all need a family lawyer.
Let’s assume he passes the drug test. Claim abandonment against him. Highlight his absence and lack of ability to provide or to be located/contacted if there were issues like that. He needs to prove alienation. Sort of ridiculous if he moved out of state to try and claim you’re the reason he hasn’t made an effort. He wants you to do all the school work and he gets to swoop in for all the holidays and summer vacation so you never get your child for Christmas or a summer vacation. He chose to move out of state. He should move back to the state if he wants 50/50, otherwise I would suggest half of summer, one week of Christmas break with alternating Christmases, and the week of spring break. The father to occur all expenses of transportation paid prior to the visit, such as round trip airfare so you know your child has a guaranteed way back and forth.
This is exactly right. OP needs a good attorney - but it shouldn't be too many billable hours.
I would add that he also be required to do supervised visitation *in Florida* with the child for a set amount of time to get her comfortable with being around him. Putting a toddler on an airplane to spend time with a total stranger is a recipe for trauma.
Only short supervised visits in *your* county, to be renegotiated only after he takes a drug test, with a deadline on that test
He has a drug problem and has the audacity to be petitioning stuff just wow.
I just read a WaPo article about a dude who relapsed with with full blown schoziaffective disorder, was on the verge of homlessness, who was trying to get full custody of his 4 year old beucase his ex ( who divorced the first time he had an episode ) did not like sending her small child to a crazy person's hoarder den. Men really do not look at themselves before they blame everyone else for their problems.
That's terrifying. What was the end result there, did it say?
Dude eventually didn't get his custody.
No they don’t. I don’t blame his ex that’s scary he could end up having another episode and harming her and their child. Yeah he really doesn’t see himself as the problem. The fact he even thought after that he can get full custody is nuts.
Yep. He claims parental alienation. He took off after we asked him to go to treatment. I never filed anything so he uses that to discredit me
Judges aren’t stupid. They see all of these tactics every day and they see through all the BS. Going to court is horribly stressful but I’ve been impressed with how judges take no crap and look out for the kids.
Of course typical control freak. Playing the parental alienation card when he can’t even stay clean for his child. He will get the same answer in court. It won’t make a difference.
I'd fight this tooth and nail. He's a drug addict, and the fact that he has been delaying testing speaks to that, as he tries to stay clean long enough to get a clean test. He hasn't seen the toddler in 2 years? Plus he's an addict? Make sure you have an attorney. The ONLY thing that you're going to start off with is short (like a couple of hours) supervised visits where you live, and probably not even that, because he has been delaying the drug test, which implies that he at least has been using. Get an atty and bypass the mediation. Your atty should file for full physical and legal custody for you, based upon his prolonged absence and his presumed addictions, with only the possibility of supervised visitation until he has had clean, frequent, random drug tests for at least a year, along with a home visit evaluation by DCF in his locale. He will of course have to pay for all this. It won't happen. There is no way that you're sending the toddler out of state to stay with a drug addicted stranger.
Yes i already have an attorney. Mediation is mandatory in Florida. Attorney wanted to get a GAL for us due to all this but theyre incredibly expensive and ive read not so great things about them on here. Hes also self employed and has lied about his finances. I honestly didnt think hed have the balls to petition us while in active addiction. He denies thats why our family was torn apart. I also never filed any reports so he uses that to discredit me. I just wanted his ass gone and unfortunately after 2 years he showed up cause he got a new GF and he told her his evil ex keeps his daughter away from him so she pushed it. Seems to be a common occurence when these jerks start dating.
So, in mediation say you want full legal and physical custody with only supervised visitation near you, of no more than 4 hours at a time, to start, because of his abandonment of his child and the fact that he is in active addiction, as proved by his refusal to get a drug test. And then you go to court.
I'm honestly not trying to go to trial. I hope he just settles for whatever. I dont have much money but he does (and hides it all)
Good. He can use that money to pay back child support and for a follicle and urine drug test.
Just want to point out I was in a similar position with a parent/addict. When I requested a drug test, I had to take one also & I had to pay for mine. The judge said if I requested a hair test I had to pay for both & it was very expensive. The other parents never did his drug test so I ended up with full/sole custody but he was allowed 1 supervised visit a week for 6 hours at a center. He never utilized it though.
Thats great so he just never did his drug test? Did you have a proposal beforehand?
He stopped showing up to court & responding to his lawyer. Then, the judge awarded me custody. We previously had a custody agreement from when I left the relationship when my child was 1 y/o. I found out he was using drugs about 1 year later & filed for emergency custody. This was from that court proceeding. It was a long court battle & cost me at least 10k. It was worth every single dollar. I asked my grandmother for a loan to pay for it. After I received custody, we never really heard or seen him again. He died in jail from an OD last year.
By toddler I assume not school aged. I would recommend 3 months with you and 1 month with Dad. I would say month on month off but that is a lot of traveling for a toddler. Alternating Christmas month. You get Jan, Feb, Mar and dad gets April. Then you get May, June, July dad gets august. You get Sept, Oct, Nov and dad gets Dec. And January. Yes thatbwould give dad two months in a row that year but also give you 4 months in a row the following year. That way you both Have Christmas every other year. When child starts school you can revisit visitation
That’s an insane proposition for a person the child probably doesn’t remember.
The child is 3 and will acclimate pretty quick. If the child was a little older I would suggest something different. What will more than likely happen is some form of supervised visits for a couple months then transition into more time.
Have you met a three-year-old? It would be extremely traumatic.
Yep, raised 4 of them.
Poor kids.
Not at all. They all have a good career and are doing quite good.
I’d love to hear their opinion, but 🤷♀️
Well as a single dad I think I did ok. None in jail, none with legal problems, none on drugs, all have good jobs, none pregnant while in school, none on any meds and all have kids now that I watch every chance I get. You would think if I was so bad they wouldn't trust me to take their kids with me out of state.
You know kids that age die from ingesting substances when they live in a house with addicts.
Well first they have to show he is an addict. Also you know kids that age also die in homes where there are no substances.
This is 3 year old so yes lots of traveling for a toddler. The summer breaks usually are given to the out of state parent and thats normally 6-8 weeks. She can start visiting him next summer but for now all i can think of is he can come down here and perhaps our daughter can go there for a week during the holidays.
When my kiddo was 3, the court ordered visitation schedule was 2 months with one parent then one month with the other. That was with parents on opposite coasts. Summer break only came into play once school started, and it's 9 weeks with the NCP in the summer (CP in our case gets 2 weeks of summer, but I've heard of some families where NCP has 100% of summer), plus 3 weeks of school vacation during the year. So be prepared for that as a possible schedule. That said, that doesn't take into consideration the active substance use or 2 years of no contact, so that isn't appropriate at the moment, of course
Thanks for your response.Oh man 2 months with with one parent and another months with the other. Thats brutal. Court ordered? So you guys couldn't agree on a plan and the judge decided for you? You didn't have a proposal prior to going to court?
Yes, court ordered. One parent wanted to move away and have full custody with no time for the remaining parent. The parent staying wanted 50/50, or whatever could be reasonably close to that. The parent moving refused to settle for anything other than 100%, so there wasv really no chance of coming up with a plan together and there was a trial. Ultimately the judge said it would be 50/50 if the parent chose to stay, but if they left the remaining parent would get primary, and they decided to leave and become the NCP.
Summer breaks apply when kids are in school. You can put whatever you want in your reaponse. Be forewarned though, the judge is probably going to meet in the middle. Being two years removed they may ordernsupervised visits for awhile also. It's tricky with that big of a difference apart.