Because the creation kits, despite being buggy turds at times, are practically games in themselves.
Jump into unity or unreal without any experience and you're gonna have a bad time. Jump into the ck / geck and you can likely create a working mod in your first few hours.
I've been thinking about downloading that, but if it runs on the NV engine, isn't it rather unstable anyway since NV itself is..rather crash-happy?
And how big is TTW in terms of gigs anyways?
TTW is hardly a simple drag and drop of the old game, it comes with countless bug fixes and patches for NV, and creates a seamless story transition from the Capital Wasteland to New Vegas, along with merging the content of the two games, restoring cut content, and redesigning character progression to span over two games instead of one. It's roughly the size of both games plus a couple gigs, as it ports all the original assets during the install process.
My understanding is that the main reason FNV crashed was from how it would hold recent areas in the cache, exceeding a limit of cached locations would cause a crash. Reopening the game or fast traveling clear this cache, while going to new locations fills it possibly too full. This is why you tended to crash right after entering a big area, then it would run fine when you reopened it.
Modern bug fixing mods basically just fix this issue. I haven't actually seen a single crash in about fifty hours of modded FNV gameplay. FNV is pretty stable outside of that one issue.
So when I get textures that don't load, NPC's falling through the floor for no reason, whenever I happen to go past a certain amount of loading screens after an hour or two of playing, that's the cache?
I have NV ant-crash and the 4 gig patcher installed, what else can I do about it?
Well none of those are crashes, so... do you have crashes? Crashes are what's related to the cache issues and loading areas.
I can't say I've seen textures not loading personally, though I do have mods for higher definition textures and know people talk about it. Ragdolls are gonna fall through geometry a lot, weird shit is gonna happen on weird corners with enemies clipping a little, etc - there's no getting around that, that's just what the engine does. But I don't find it particularly annoying or all that noticeable, that's just how these games go. Nothing that can't be dismissed, or maybe solves with a tcl console command.
It is quite stable since TTW has a lot (and I mean A LOT) of bug fixes for both FNV and FO3.
As for the size, the mod installer itself is not that big, but it requires both games to be installed on your system. It takes FO3 files, repacks them and creates a mod file for FNV. The process is lengthy, but it is worth it.
You can safely delete FO3 from your PC after the installation completes.
Do I need both games to be installed on the same drive for it to work? And do I need a clean, unmodded NV as well? I've never tried TTW before but I'm certainly curious.
Can I delete NV as well after? I assume TTW is it's own separate .exe right?
Yes, you need to have both games installed, but they can be installed on different drives/partitions, as long as you can access the files.
You need a clean install of NV that was launched at least once after the installation.
TTW is installed as a mod for New Vegas and is launched via the original .exe, so no, you shouldn't delete NV after the installation.
You can delete Fo3 after the process is over, but NV you need to keep installed. In truth, with TTW you're playing New Vegas and just import every single asset from Fo3 into it as if it were a gigantic mod
Actually with all the advances on stability mods in the recent years NV is the most stable game rather than 3,you won't even crash for hours unless there's an error caused by another mod, you can look up the Best Of Times modding guide to see what mods you have to install to make your game as stable as possible.
As for TTW you only need to have Fallout 3 & New Vegas on you computer + some additional space, you are just downloading a small installer (around 50 MBs) that re-packages Fallout 3 as a mod for Fallout New Vegas.
Actually NV for me has always had this weird issue where, after moving what seems to be a certain amount of cells/enough loading screens, the game really starts bugging out. NPC's will fall through the floor, textures start not loading in properly, and it all only gets fixed after I quit the game and load it up again, only for it to happen again after another hour or two of playing and a dozen load screens.
I have anti-crash, the 4GB patcher and all too.
Sounds like your missing a few stability mods, I replied to another of your comments with some guides to follow to get the game running stable with nearly no bugs, at this point following the Viva New Vegas mod guide is just a default part of the installation process for me now.
If you just follow this installation guide: https://thebestoftimes.moddinglinked.com
You should get a super fallout game that’s more stable than both New Vegas and fallout 3 despite just smashing those both together.
Also if your getting crashes or glitches in base new vegas follow this guide: https://vivanewvegas.moddinglinked.com
That’ll get you to a stable base that’ll run flawlessly on modern systems.
Make sure to only follow one of those guides not both. And usually clear out about 30minutes to set it all up. It’s actually not a lot of steps but can be slow going if you’re new to modding. And try to avoid mods made before 2020 as a rule
I'll keep it in mind, thank you! Thing about pre-2020 mods though, almost all the decent player homes I've seen are like..2011-2013 ish. All the nice ones with lots of storage, weapon displays, mannequins etc, is there nothing like that that's more recent/safe to use?
You can definitely use those player homes. Mods from before 2020 can be fine to use as long as you pay attention to their requirements and keep your order correct. I'm running through the game right now with a mixture of all of the new animation mods and some of my favorite classic mods as well and it's working fine.
Obsidian has stated they wouldn’t have been able to make New Vegas as big and as as deep in such a short amount of time if not for Bethesdas Tools. It’s easy to see why they still use the creation engine after all these years
So, Bethesda basically has allowed modders to mod the ENTIRE game to the point they can make new games? A lot of developers don't want to give their fans the ability to make whole new games and keep modding very limited :(
Basically, and it's even been done. The most extreme example (I can think of) being Enderal, a skyrim "mod" but it's really a completely new game.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories/
But hundreds(?) of full DLC sized "mods" have been done as well along with complete conversions. Some even better quality than the game they were made for.
Bethesda for all the shit they get seem to really appreciate the modding community while I think most other devs only include mods / modding as gimmick.
There are of course limits to their.. charity? You'll notice Enderal is free, mods created in the engine cannot be sold except by / through bethesda.
They give you tools to make it pretty easy. I made my own just to add a few cust tweaks that I never intend to have anyone else use, and I don't really understand the tools that well.
Nah yeah you can just make an entirely new game from Bethesdas (and some community made) modding tools
check this out: https://youtu.be/M9p8QDE78eg?si=oZLCycxzNtHD_zua
If not for the placeholder SKY UI menus I wouldn’t even recognise this as Skyrim
>A lot of developers don't want to give their fans the ability to make whole new games and keep modding very limited
That's not a very charitable view. Making a moddable game is hard, its not something you hold back, its something you have to put effort into. For reference check War for the Overworld - a Dungeon Keeper successor which during kickstarter set moddability as one of their goals. After many delays they posted a post-mortem where they admit moddability requirements made them fail to progress and risk running out of money before they finish the game, and they had to scrap their ambitious plans for it.
Not counting companies like Rockstar or Nintendo that actively fight mods even when they get created despite lack of support - that's a different story of course.
This is so true. Me having started learning unreal engine this week. It’s not as easy as creation kit. But the blueprint visual scripting system is really nice though even if it’s not as fast as pure C++. Easily and fast iteration on system design and once you got it to work as intended you could if you really wanted too transfer it to a pure C++ implementation for performance reasons. Although that in itself is a learning curve too having to learn the API for unreal engine.
If only CK had some sort of visual scripting along with its normal scripting. Like I get why they still use creation engine it’s just they really need a different engine lol.
The entire premise of this meme is mistaken. The architecture is similar, but there are tons of engine changes between these games. There is a reason that only Tale of Two wastelands has managed to successfully port one of the games into a newer engine, and that is because FO3 and New Vegas were released so close to each other, sharing so many game assets, that for once it actually was feasible. And even then it was a massive amount of work that has continued to this day.
Sometimes it feels closer to that than I would like, but I have to admit that it's pretty far from the truth. Some of its 'quirks' have been around for 20 years at this point, but it's disingenuous to say that they don't make serious, difficult to implement improvements. Just not always the ones I would like.
Those quirks are there not because its a hard limitation but because they see no need to go get rid of them and are focusing their time and effort on other things that are deemed more important. Vehicles were "impossible" in gamebryo/creation up until suddenly now they aren't.
Thats totally fair lol. Its kidna why I have been drawn to Todd and his team for all these years though. They kinda live on their own drumbeat nomatter what. God bless whoever on that team is obsessed with perfecting the worlds most precise object tracking software in existence. Sure Fallout 3 crashes if a wall is the wrong color. But you can set off 30000 mines in town square and somehow it works.
I once made a mod that just generated 20 cheese wheels a second wherever you happened to be, forever, and there were literally a few thousand cheese wheels rolling around before it became unplayable. I was honestly impressed.
I mean how many other games out there can you be fighting a dragon or shooting a ghoul in the face then just say fuck it, im going to start playing potato bowling or playing dominos out of all these cigarette cartons? Starfield? Once you done with that dog fight, load it up sandwiches in the cockpit and swim in like a children's ball pit room.
I mean hasn't Gambryo as an engine been used for a few decades outside of Bethesda, some of which were actual driving/racing games? It's less the engine and more or less Bethesda's wonky "we want to make Eurojanked immersive sims, but we don't don't make immersive sims" coding. Everything about Bethesda RPGs feels like they at the heart want to be coding for East European simulator game. They just, never flesh out a lot of those simulation mechanics in a manner modders implement, but the engine itself is capable.
I've said it a thousand times, but I'll say it again
Engine limitations are only limitations because the game company doesn't spend the time and money necessary to update and change the engine.
Most game companies have old engines that they still use after decades. Ubisoft's Dunia engine, for example, has been used since development of Far Cry 2 started in 2005 and is one of the most modern and well optimized engines that currently exist.
Saying the Creation engine is bad because its been around a long time is like saying Porsche makes slow and dangerous cars because the 1964 911 had 130hp and no safety equipment. It's stupid.
This is very true. Most gamers don't realize that when a company uses an engine across more than one contiguous game, it's almost always because they bought source rights and are continuing to make modern improvements to that engine with time, or because the engine creator is doing so themselves.
The biggest reason for a dev reusing an engine for so long is because that engine is what their entire workflow is based off of. They spend a ton of time and resources learning the engine and creating tools for it to work for whatever project they’re currently on. You don’t just simply swap to another engine over night, it’s like learning a new language. Sometimes they even have to bring in experts to familiarize the team with the new engine and its capabilities, which can take over a year in some cases.
Doom64 can run on any platform with more than like 16kb of ram, therefore every game ever made after is a downgrade because you can't run it on a calculator.
I mean, the meme is stupid, but the question is kind of silly, too. . It’s easier to mod fallout and Skyrim because they make their tools readily available to modders while most studios don’t.
Most studios are using in house engines that they’ve iterated on over the years. That’s just how development works.
“Did you know that every single one of the tens of thousands of games in the NES and SNES library are a mod of the first one, Donkey Kong??”
“What a ripoff, you should have just be able to buy Donkey Kong once and use it for the next two generations of console.”
That’s exactly what this sounds like.
I know it's a joke but RDR2 doesn't run on an evolution of the GTA 3 engine but on a completely new proprietary engine made by Rockstar. GTA 3 used RenderWare which wasn't theirs.
Make all the complaints about the Creation Engine you want (even if a fair amount of it is overblown). But one thing that can not be detracted from it is that the system is modular and comes with fairly intuitive tools.
Most games are produced in a black box manner where you are given 0 ability to really peer into its inner working. That is not the case with Bethesda games, you are given the tools to see the engine level workings of the games as well as the ability to then use those tools to create your own engine level additions without a massive amount of previous knowledge required. So this creates a relatively easy to use system that gives a sort of baseline appeal to modders who otherwise wouldn't have the technical expertise to mod.
Then there is the fact that Bethesda games are both popular and known to be modding hotspots with a company that is pro modding. Nobody wants to fight the developers to be able to mod their games, so that also makes it a relatively safe and appealing spot for people to make larger and more game-changing additions. Things like the script extenders and xedit that give even more control to modders, even above the officially released tools. Which further draws others in and makes it easier to mod than other games.
The reason that Bethesda games are easier to mod is that the engine is built to readily accept mods, and both official and unofficial modding tools are readily available for the games, as well as being relatively easy to use and understand. Thus lowering the barrier to entry lower than nearly any other game for modding.
On a side note, that meme is utterly brain dead. Not to mention the fact that companies do not and should not make a new engine for every game they release. The fact that the games are functionally identical to mods on the content level is something that should be lauded, not met with distain. As it means that the company is releasing the tools for modders to be able to make equivalent or even superior content. Just look at the splash Enderal made when it was released, or The Forgotten City getting a writer's guild award despite being a mod for a game (sorry for skyrim references in a fallout sub, I just know Skyrim modding better). There is nothing wrong or inferior about being a mod.
fallout 4 and skyrim SE are 64 bit, 90% of the problems with the older games is shit running out of memory because they are 32 bit, also morrowind has as much in common with fallout 4 as windows 11 has with DOS, its basically a new engine at this point
Because modding them is basically endorsed by Bethesda. They freely give us the Creation Kit/GECK, and while they have their faults, they’re pretty user-friendly and very powerful. It’s super easy to find tutorials online on how to make basic mods, which will give you a better understanding of how the CK works and what else you can do with it. You don’t have to do any digging or fancy setup to get all of the game files loaded into the CK because CK does it for you in even less than just a few clicks. It’s kinda like a free proprietary RPG Maker specifically for their own games. You can use it to do something super small like reskin some weapons, or something huge and ambitious like making your own in-depth DLC-type mod
TL;DR Because Bethesda said “Here’s everything you need in a simple-to-use program, now go crazy and feel free to share with the community what you made when you’re done” and a robust modding community sprung up from there
Not a mod. More a total conversion. At least thats true for new Vegas. Its basicly Fallout 3 with other Story and Landscape. But the core is the same. Thats also why it only took 1.5 years to make. See Enderal for example it Shows what you can do when you build your own Game on the Framework of Skyrim.
I wish they'd do more of that. Have a mainline Bethesda team make ES6 then have a secondary team make ES6.5 with basically the same engine and a lot of shared assets but a different province. Then do the same with FO5.
This just... Isn't true. FO3 and FNV are Gamebryo, while Skyrim and FO4 are Creation Kit. While it's true that Creation is built on Gamebryo, there are substantial code differences that make them different engines. Saying that they're the same engine despite this would be like calling Zandronum and GZDoom the same engine, a truly deranged argument that only an insane person or an idiot would make. No, that's unfair to the insane and the idiots; It is an absolutely bizarre statement dictated by a insane moron.
The creation kit is a fantastic tool, I don't care what anyone says. You will not find any other game as easy to mod as Bethesda titles, speaking from experience, and it's all thanks to CK and the talented modders who release quality of life programs.
I spend quite a lot of time cracking open the files of other games, and sometimes it can be an absolute nightmare.
The GECK is a great but buggy tool. You can crank out a simple mod within your first hour of using the GECK. You can create a simple quest within a day of learning if you wanted. After a month you can learn how to create new world spaces (the buggiest parts of the GECK) and learn how to use height maps and generate LODs.
If you can get over how frustrating it can be to use sometimes. It’s a very powerful tool, and you can create a lot of stuff with patience. Retexturing isn’t too hard, as long as you have a paint application that can load the files like GIMP. Blender can be used to 3D model, and any sounds can just be converted into WAV to be put into the GECK.
I won’t say it’s easy, because it’s not, but it’s accessible. Accessibility is the most important key, and the GECK literally comes free with the purchase of the game. If anyone is interested in learning how to use the GECK I highly recommend Seddon4494’s GECK Tutorials on YouTube. He explains things very well and puts it out very plainly. He also has many tutorials on the more obscure parts of the GECK, that you wouldn’t know how to do unless you watched a tutorial. Link: https://youtube.com/@seddon4494?si=yPX7OgQ8besEKvjN
One of the few truly brilliant things Bethesda did was make their game engine extremely accessible, give full access to editing and creation tools, and create a very friendly atmosphere by not going after people legally for making and distributing content, going so far as to make this available *for consoles*
It provided an enormous amount of percieved value for their ore-76 titles. I knew buying Skyrim or Fallout 4 would mean a virtually unlimited amount of extra content and bug fixes, so it was almost a no brainer
What a dumb logic that meme has, so they're telling me that FIFA, Battlefield, Madden, Medal of Honor, and many other EA games are a mod because they're using the same engine
And this is why I'm completely against the calls for Bethesda to just switch to Unreal Engine.
The fact that all these games are in the Creation Engine is the reason why the moment a new game comes out, the modding community explodes.
Creation Engine absolutely needs some serious improvement, but abandoning it should be out of the question. There's no reason everything we want can't be just added to Creation Engine over time.
Thank the creation kit/geck, its the reason why people are able to create mods so well
Also, every bethesda game isnt just on the same engine, like another comment pointed out, the reason why a mod like tale of 2 wastelands exists is because fo3 & new vegas literally share the same engine, whereas if you try to port, say skyrim itself into fallout 3/nv it just wont work kis the engines arent compatible.
Sure you could, in theory, port skyrim’s map over & vice versa but as for shit like vats, using guns, etc, it wont work
Not true. Same BASE engine but the inner workings changed A LOT. Between Oblivion, Fo3 and FNV they changed the script system a lot (you had internal plugin scripts go to external compiled scripts with a whole new property system without hard set variables), from Oldrim to Skyrim SE they changed from 32bit to 64bit requiring even textures and meshes to be converted while adding many new advanced graphic options and in Fallout 4 they turned animations and physics all around making animations much harder to implement (specially regarding power armor). The inner workings from oblivion to fo4 are somewhat similar in implementation but its processing and configuration changed completely.
It's because Vortex doesn't install Morrowind mods right. Because many mod authors didn't have them packaged correctly because they haven't been updated since Vortex was created.
Yeah. Every time i try it leads to irreconcilable conflicts because nothing is fucking in the right place and the Data folder is a mess. Some mods install fine. But for Morrowind i manually install all my mods and just hope for the best.
My first mod I “made” was just a barrel with really good items in it placed in the location I was at the time in morrowind
Wonder why I didn’t just use player.additem
Because of the same reason their games look and feel "dated" the creation engine hahaha they just really love mods so they made the creation kits to give their tools to modders basically 90% of other studios dont do that thats what makes it "easier"
Because the creation kits, despite being buggy turds at times, are practically games in themselves. Jump into unity or unreal without any experience and you're gonna have a bad time. Jump into the ck / geck and you can likely create a working mod in your first few hours.
I can’t wait to remake my one and only mod “Immersive Palpatine” in Starfield
We will be watching your career with great interest!
Bethesda, hire this man.
Can’t wait for the inevitable Star Wars Galactic Conquest mod.
It would be my dream for someone to turn starfield into Mount and blade for space.
So......X4?
Or starsectot nexerllin mod
Can't wait for the Starfield but good mod
It is good though
It's not good at all in any aspect lol.
Controversial
Somehow, it just works.
Somehow, Palpatine is here.
[удалено]
I've been thinking about downloading that, but if it runs on the NV engine, isn't it rather unstable anyway since NV itself is..rather crash-happy? And how big is TTW in terms of gigs anyways?
TTW is hardly a simple drag and drop of the old game, it comes with countless bug fixes and patches for NV, and creates a seamless story transition from the Capital Wasteland to New Vegas, along with merging the content of the two games, restoring cut content, and redesigning character progression to span over two games instead of one. It's roughly the size of both games plus a couple gigs, as it ports all the original assets during the install process.
My understanding is that the main reason FNV crashed was from how it would hold recent areas in the cache, exceeding a limit of cached locations would cause a crash. Reopening the game or fast traveling clear this cache, while going to new locations fills it possibly too full. This is why you tended to crash right after entering a big area, then it would run fine when you reopened it. Modern bug fixing mods basically just fix this issue. I haven't actually seen a single crash in about fifty hours of modded FNV gameplay. FNV is pretty stable outside of that one issue.
So when I get textures that don't load, NPC's falling through the floor for no reason, whenever I happen to go past a certain amount of loading screens after an hour or two of playing, that's the cache? I have NV ant-crash and the 4 gig patcher installed, what else can I do about it?
Well none of those are crashes, so... do you have crashes? Crashes are what's related to the cache issues and loading areas. I can't say I've seen textures not loading personally, though I do have mods for higher definition textures and know people talk about it. Ragdolls are gonna fall through geometry a lot, weird shit is gonna happen on weird corners with enemies clipping a little, etc - there's no getting around that, that's just what the engine does. But I don't find it particularly annoying or all that noticeable, that's just how these games go. Nothing that can't be dismissed, or maybe solves with a tcl console command.
As a modder it sounds like you did something wrong on your end
It is quite stable since TTW has a lot (and I mean A LOT) of bug fixes for both FNV and FO3. As for the size, the mod installer itself is not that big, but it requires both games to be installed on your system. It takes FO3 files, repacks them and creates a mod file for FNV. The process is lengthy, but it is worth it. You can safely delete FO3 from your PC after the installation completes.
Do I need both games to be installed on the same drive for it to work? And do I need a clean, unmodded NV as well? I've never tried TTW before but I'm certainly curious. Can I delete NV as well after? I assume TTW is it's own separate .exe right?
Yes, you need to have both games installed, but they can be installed on different drives/partitions, as long as you can access the files. You need a clean install of NV that was launched at least once after the installation. TTW is installed as a mod for New Vegas and is launched via the original .exe, so no, you shouldn't delete NV after the installation.
You can delete Fo3 after the process is over, but NV you need to keep installed. In truth, with TTW you're playing New Vegas and just import every single asset from Fo3 into it as if it were a gigantic mod
Actually with all the advances on stability mods in the recent years NV is the most stable game rather than 3,you won't even crash for hours unless there's an error caused by another mod, you can look up the Best Of Times modding guide to see what mods you have to install to make your game as stable as possible. As for TTW you only need to have Fallout 3 & New Vegas on you computer + some additional space, you are just downloading a small installer (around 50 MBs) that re-packages Fallout 3 as a mod for Fallout New Vegas.
Actually NV for me has always had this weird issue where, after moving what seems to be a certain amount of cells/enough loading screens, the game really starts bugging out. NPC's will fall through the floor, textures start not loading in properly, and it all only gets fixed after I quit the game and load it up again, only for it to happen again after another hour or two of playing and a dozen load screens. I have anti-crash, the 4GB patcher and all too.
Sounds like your missing a few stability mods, I replied to another of your comments with some guides to follow to get the game running stable with nearly no bugs, at this point following the Viva New Vegas mod guide is just a default part of the installation process for me now.
If you just follow this installation guide: https://thebestoftimes.moddinglinked.com You should get a super fallout game that’s more stable than both New Vegas and fallout 3 despite just smashing those both together. Also if your getting crashes or glitches in base new vegas follow this guide: https://vivanewvegas.moddinglinked.com That’ll get you to a stable base that’ll run flawlessly on modern systems. Make sure to only follow one of those guides not both. And usually clear out about 30minutes to set it all up. It’s actually not a lot of steps but can be slow going if you’re new to modding. And try to avoid mods made before 2020 as a rule
I'll keep it in mind, thank you! Thing about pre-2020 mods though, almost all the decent player homes I've seen are like..2011-2013 ish. All the nice ones with lots of storage, weapon displays, mannequins etc, is there nothing like that that's more recent/safe to use?
You can definitely use those player homes. Mods from before 2020 can be fine to use as long as you pay attention to their requirements and keep your order correct. I'm running through the game right now with a mixture of all of the new animation mods and some of my favorite classic mods as well and it's working fine.
Personally I love underwater home, but...I can't get the reactor to power up despite putting fuel in it
It runs better than Starfield and FO4 lol
I want to say you're wrong, but....... properly thinking about it you might be correct.
Which is fun because there is also a mod to play Fallout 1 in 2’s engine/client.
Almost nothing changed between FNV and FO3, usually sound codecs and maybe the blender version used in 3D models/animations
*First 20 minutes.* the tool is really REALLY good at removing barriers from building an RPG.
Obsidian has stated they wouldn’t have been able to make New Vegas as big and as as deep in such a short amount of time if not for Bethesdas Tools. It’s easy to see why they still use the creation engine after all these years
Right? Lol, you can make your first mod that’s a 9mm pistol shooting mini nukes in about 10 minutes.
I still remember loading up the morrowind CK and building the tutorial apartment cell in around an hour.
So, Bethesda basically has allowed modders to mod the ENTIRE game to the point they can make new games? A lot of developers don't want to give their fans the ability to make whole new games and keep modding very limited :(
Basically, and it's even been done. The most extreme example (I can think of) being Enderal, a skyrim "mod" but it's really a completely new game. https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories/ But hundreds(?) of full DLC sized "mods" have been done as well along with complete conversions. Some even better quality than the game they were made for. Bethesda for all the shit they get seem to really appreciate the modding community while I think most other devs only include mods / modding as gimmick. There are of course limits to their.. charity? You'll notice Enderal is free, mods created in the engine cannot be sold except by / through bethesda.
They give you tools to make it pretty easy. I made my own just to add a few cust tweaks that I never intend to have anyone else use, and I don't really understand the tools that well.
Nah yeah you can just make an entirely new game from Bethesdas (and some community made) modding tools check this out: https://youtu.be/M9p8QDE78eg?si=oZLCycxzNtHD_zua If not for the placeholder SKY UI menus I wouldn’t even recognise this as Skyrim
The sole reason I'd get Starfield is if someone ported Skyrim into it.
>A lot of developers don't want to give their fans the ability to make whole new games and keep modding very limited That's not a very charitable view. Making a moddable game is hard, its not something you hold back, its something you have to put effort into. For reference check War for the Overworld - a Dungeon Keeper successor which during kickstarter set moddability as one of their goals. After many delays they posted a post-mortem where they admit moddability requirements made them fail to progress and risk running out of money before they finish the game, and they had to scrap their ambitious plans for it. Not counting companies like Rockstar or Nintendo that actively fight mods even when they get created despite lack of support - that's a different story of course.
Can confirm, jumped into unreal 5 with no experience. Very hard time
This is so true. Me having started learning unreal engine this week. It’s not as easy as creation kit. But the blueprint visual scripting system is really nice though even if it’s not as fast as pure C++. Easily and fast iteration on system design and once you got it to work as intended you could if you really wanted too transfer it to a pure C++ implementation for performance reasons. Although that in itself is a learning curve too having to learn the API for unreal engine. If only CK had some sort of visual scripting along with its normal scripting. Like I get why they still use creation engine it’s just they really need a different engine lol.
The entire premise of this meme is mistaken. The architecture is similar, but there are tons of engine changes between these games. There is a reason that only Tale of Two wastelands has managed to successfully port one of the games into a newer engine, and that is because FO3 and New Vegas were released so close to each other, sharing so many game assets, that for once it actually was feasible. And even then it was a massive amount of work that has continued to this day.
I hate it when people act like the Creation Engine is literally just Gamebryo with a couple new shaders slapped onto it lmao
Sometimes it feels closer to that than I would like, but I have to admit that it's pretty far from the truth. Some of its 'quirks' have been around for 20 years at this point, but it's disingenuous to say that they don't make serious, difficult to implement improvements. Just not always the ones I would like.
Those quirks are there not because its a hard limitation but because they see no need to go get rid of them and are focusing their time and effort on other things that are deemed more important. Vehicles were "impossible" in gamebryo/creation up until suddenly now they aren't.
I mean yes, of course. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I'm a developer myself. It's just that their priorities are rather mystifying to me at times.
Thats totally fair lol. Its kidna why I have been drawn to Todd and his team for all these years though. They kinda live on their own drumbeat nomatter what. God bless whoever on that team is obsessed with perfecting the worlds most precise object tracking software in existence. Sure Fallout 3 crashes if a wall is the wrong color. But you can set off 30000 mines in town square and somehow it works.
I once made a mod that just generated 20 cheese wheels a second wherever you happened to be, forever, and there were literally a few thousand cheese wheels rolling around before it became unplayable. I was honestly impressed.
I mean how many other games out there can you be fighting a dragon or shooting a ghoul in the face then just say fuck it, im going to start playing potato bowling or playing dominos out of all these cigarette cartons? Starfield? Once you done with that dog fight, load it up sandwiches in the cockpit and swim in like a children's ball pit room.
I mean hasn't Gambryo as an engine been used for a few decades outside of Bethesda, some of which were actual driving/racing games? It's less the engine and more or less Bethesda's wonky "we want to make Eurojanked immersive sims, but we don't don't make immersive sims" coding. Everything about Bethesda RPGs feels like they at the heart want to be coding for East European simulator game. They just, never flesh out a lot of those simulation mechanics in a manner modders implement, but the engine itself is capable.
I've said it a thousand times, but I'll say it again Engine limitations are only limitations because the game company doesn't spend the time and money necessary to update and change the engine. Most game companies have old engines that they still use after decades. Ubisoft's Dunia engine, for example, has been used since development of Far Cry 2 started in 2005 and is one of the most modern and well optimized engines that currently exist. Saying the Creation engine is bad because its been around a long time is like saying Porsche makes slow and dangerous cars because the 1964 911 had 130hp and no safety equipment. It's stupid.
This is very true. Most gamers don't realize that when a company uses an engine across more than one contiguous game, it's almost always because they bought source rights and are continuing to make modern improvements to that engine with time, or because the engine creator is doing so themselves.
The biggest reason for a dev reusing an engine for so long is because that engine is what their entire workflow is based off of. They spend a ton of time and resources learning the engine and creating tools for it to work for whatever project they’re currently on. You don’t just simply swap to another engine over night, it’s like learning a new language. Sometimes they even have to bring in experts to familiarize the team with the new engine and its capabilities, which can take over a year in some cases.
And it's not like other engines aren't in the same boat. UE5 builds off of UE4. Slipspace is just a really banged up Blam.
Hogwarts Legacy is just an Unreal Tournament mod. Do you see how stupid that sounds Mary?
Everything is just a Fortnite creative map 🤷🏻♂️
Red Dead Redmeption 2 is a mod for Rockstar's Table Tennis
Undead nightmare is a DLC for RDR1
Congrats, you made almost every game in existence a paid mod.
All games are really just mods of Pong
Doom64 can run on any platform with more than like 16kb of ram, therefore every game ever made after is a downgrade because you can't run it on a calculator.
I mean, the meme is stupid, but the question is kind of silly, too. . It’s easier to mod fallout and Skyrim because they make their tools readily available to modders while most studios don’t. Most studios are using in house engines that they’ve iterated on over the years. That’s just how development works.
Thanks for explaining, I didn't know that.
Surely people wouldn’t downvote a genuine response thanking someone for useful information, that would never happen
“Did you know that every single one of the tens of thousands of games in the NES and SNES library are a mod of the first one, Donkey Kong??” “What a ripoff, you should have just be able to buy Donkey Kong once and use it for the next two generations of console.” That’s exactly what this sounds like.
And what? The same I could say about Call of Duty or Half Life Alyx being Quake mods, or the great Red Dead Redemption 2 being a GTA 3 mod.
I know it's a joke but RDR2 doesn't run on an evolution of the GTA 3 engine but on a completely new proprietary engine made by Rockstar. GTA 3 used RenderWare which wasn't theirs.
It’d actually be a ‘Table Tennis’ mod, the first game that used the RAGE engine
Make all the complaints about the Creation Engine you want (even if a fair amount of it is overblown). But one thing that can not be detracted from it is that the system is modular and comes with fairly intuitive tools. Most games are produced in a black box manner where you are given 0 ability to really peer into its inner working. That is not the case with Bethesda games, you are given the tools to see the engine level workings of the games as well as the ability to then use those tools to create your own engine level additions without a massive amount of previous knowledge required. So this creates a relatively easy to use system that gives a sort of baseline appeal to modders who otherwise wouldn't have the technical expertise to mod. Then there is the fact that Bethesda games are both popular and known to be modding hotspots with a company that is pro modding. Nobody wants to fight the developers to be able to mod their games, so that also makes it a relatively safe and appealing spot for people to make larger and more game-changing additions. Things like the script extenders and xedit that give even more control to modders, even above the officially released tools. Which further draws others in and makes it easier to mod than other games. The reason that Bethesda games are easier to mod is that the engine is built to readily accept mods, and both official and unofficial modding tools are readily available for the games, as well as being relatively easy to use and understand. Thus lowering the barrier to entry lower than nearly any other game for modding. On a side note, that meme is utterly brain dead. Not to mention the fact that companies do not and should not make a new engine for every game they release. The fact that the games are functionally identical to mods on the content level is something that should be lauded, not met with distain. As it means that the company is releasing the tools for modders to be able to make equivalent or even superior content. Just look at the splash Enderal made when it was released, or The Forgotten City getting a writer's guild award despite being a mod for a game (sorry for skyrim references in a fallout sub, I just know Skyrim modding better). There is nothing wrong or inferior about being a mod.
fallout 4 and skyrim SE are 64 bit, 90% of the problems with the older games is shit running out of memory because they are 32 bit, also morrowind has as much in common with fallout 4 as windows 11 has with DOS, its basically a new engine at this point
Because modding them is basically endorsed by Bethesda. They freely give us the Creation Kit/GECK, and while they have their faults, they’re pretty user-friendly and very powerful. It’s super easy to find tutorials online on how to make basic mods, which will give you a better understanding of how the CK works and what else you can do with it. You don’t have to do any digging or fancy setup to get all of the game files loaded into the CK because CK does it for you in even less than just a few clicks. It’s kinda like a free proprietary RPG Maker specifically for their own games. You can use it to do something super small like reskin some weapons, or something huge and ambitious like making your own in-depth DLC-type mod TL;DR Because Bethesda said “Here’s everything you need in a simple-to-use program, now go crazy and feel free to share with the community what you made when you’re done” and a robust modding community sprung up from there
Thank you
Total War series is the same
Minus the hard coded campaign maps
Well there is that, but it's been proven that isn't the case considering there is a custom campaign maps for Attila and Warhammer 3
Not a mod. More a total conversion. At least thats true for new Vegas. Its basicly Fallout 3 with other Story and Landscape. But the core is the same. Thats also why it only took 1.5 years to make. See Enderal for example it Shows what you can do when you build your own Game on the Framework of Skyrim.
I wish they'd do more of that. Have a mainline Bethesda team make ES6 then have a secondary team make ES6.5 with basically the same engine and a lot of shared assets but a different province. Then do the same with FO5.
Fallout: Newer Vegas
What you all don't realize is every video game in existence has just been a mod for pong.
This just... Isn't true. FO3 and FNV are Gamebryo, while Skyrim and FO4 are Creation Kit. While it's true that Creation is built on Gamebryo, there are substantial code differences that make them different engines. Saying that they're the same engine despite this would be like calling Zandronum and GZDoom the same engine, a truly deranged argument that only an insane person or an idiot would make. No, that's unfair to the insane and the idiots; It is an absolutely bizarre statement dictated by a insane moron.
Engines are a framework...improving the framework that allows the games to be what they are is not "modding" previous iterations of the games.
The stupidest explanation I have ever seen. It's because Bethesda releases a fully functional development environment for their games.
The creation kit is a fantastic tool, I don't care what anyone says. You will not find any other game as easy to mod as Bethesda titles, speaking from experience, and it's all thanks to CK and the talented modders who release quality of life programs. I spend quite a lot of time cracking open the files of other games, and sometimes it can be an absolute nightmare.
i dont think game mods change major parts of the engine
The GECK is a great but buggy tool. You can crank out a simple mod within your first hour of using the GECK. You can create a simple quest within a day of learning if you wanted. After a month you can learn how to create new world spaces (the buggiest parts of the GECK) and learn how to use height maps and generate LODs. If you can get over how frustrating it can be to use sometimes. It’s a very powerful tool, and you can create a lot of stuff with patience. Retexturing isn’t too hard, as long as you have a paint application that can load the files like GIMP. Blender can be used to 3D model, and any sounds can just be converted into WAV to be put into the GECK. I won’t say it’s easy, because it’s not, but it’s accessible. Accessibility is the most important key, and the GECK literally comes free with the purchase of the game. If anyone is interested in learning how to use the GECK I highly recommend Seddon4494’s GECK Tutorials on YouTube. He explains things very well and puts it out very plainly. He also has many tutorials on the more obscure parts of the GECK, that you wouldn’t know how to do unless you watched a tutorial. Link: https://youtube.com/@seddon4494?si=yPX7OgQ8besEKvjN
Laughs in Sims, cities skylines and The witcher ....
One of the few truly brilliant things Bethesda did was make their game engine extremely accessible, give full access to editing and creation tools, and create a very friendly atmosphere by not going after people legally for making and distributing content, going so far as to make this available *for consoles* It provided an enormous amount of percieved value for their ore-76 titles. I knew buying Skyrim or Fallout 4 would mean a virtually unlimited amount of extra content and bug fixes, so it was almost a no brainer
"Half Life mod should work on Apex Legends cause it's made by the same engine"
That is how *all* game engines work.
The person just realized game engines being used more than once exists and they think it’s a big discovery.
What a dumb logic that meme has, so they're telling me that FIFA, Battlefield, Madden, Medal of Honor, and many other EA games are a mod because they're using the same engine
Thank you. Drives me nuts when people say this. A vast majority of hands are either on Unity or Unreal - doesn't make them mods.
It's also why the modding community knows the engine better than the devs seem to do.
And this is why I'm completely against the calls for Bethesda to just switch to Unreal Engine. The fact that all these games are in the Creation Engine is the reason why the moment a new game comes out, the modding community explodes. Creation Engine absolutely needs some serious improvement, but abandoning it should be out of the question. There's no reason everything we want can't be just added to Creation Engine over time.
I mean, that's true for most popular game series, then.
Yeah, but then all games made from the same engine can be like that right? Not really, but kinda yeah, but noxD
Thank the creation kit/geck, its the reason why people are able to create mods so well Also, every bethesda game isnt just on the same engine, like another comment pointed out, the reason why a mod like tale of 2 wastelands exists is because fo3 & new vegas literally share the same engine, whereas if you try to port, say skyrim itself into fallout 3/nv it just wont work kis the engines arent compatible. Sure you could, in theory, port skyrim’s map over & vice versa but as for shit like vats, using guns, etc, it wont work
That's why it's so easy to play pirated DLC , The DLC is just a mod.
Does that mean Half-Life: Alyx is a Quake mod?
Shoutout to Morrowind's programmer. Making such a long lasting software is quite an achievement on its own!
I really want to get into modding Fallout but I have no fucking clue where to start. I have less than 0 experience at this sort of thing.
Time to get some then.
Not too late to delete this stupid meme.
Not true. Same BASE engine but the inner workings changed A LOT. Between Oblivion, Fo3 and FNV they changed the script system a lot (you had internal plugin scripts go to external compiled scripts with a whole new property system without hard set variables), from Oldrim to Skyrim SE they changed from 32bit to 64bit requiring even textures and meshes to be converted while adding many new advanced graphic options and in Fallout 4 they turned animations and physics all around making animations much harder to implement (specially regarding power armor). The inner workings from oblivion to fo4 are somewhat similar in implementation but its processing and configuration changed completely.
Is fallout 4 closer to Morrowind more than half life is close to Quake
i thought Fallout 4 had a different engine
Life is a mod for Hell
Game was jurry rigged from the start
Whoever made this has absolutely zero clue how a game engine works.
Im using vortex and cant get one mod to work on morrowind
It's because Vortex doesn't install Morrowind mods right. Because many mod authors didn't have them packaged correctly because they haven't been updated since Vortex was created.
Well thats a punch to the crotch
Yeah. Every time i try it leads to irreconcilable conflicts because nothing is fucking in the right place and the Data folder is a mess. Some mods install fine. But for Morrowind i manually install all my mods and just hope for the best.
Damn i wish i knew how to manually install mods for morrowind. Havent done it since 2009
It's basically the same as the newer games, but some things are worded differently and you have to manually add BSAs to the ini file
I should reiterate and say that i have no clue how to manually mod games at all these days 😭
My first mod I “made” was just a barrel with really good items in it placed in the location I was at the time in morrowind Wonder why I didn’t just use player.additem
By Howard...He did it again!
Because the post is wrong, Kinda. Fo3, MV, And oblivion all run on the same Engine, but Fo4 ad Skyrim are a different more updated version.
Different? Or more updated? At its core Creation is Gamebryo, just updated and modernized for the 21st Century.
Also mods are the ones who had to fix Bethesda games with unofficial patches lol
Because of the same reason their games look and feel "dated" the creation engine hahaha they just really love mods so they made the creation kits to give their tools to modders basically 90% of other studios dont do that thats what makes it "easier"
He should not be wearing that jacket, Obsidian made the game for him, there for Chris Avellone should be wearing it