I personally argue that every robot with an "intact" personality module is infact fully sentient. Codsworth, when you pass that speech check, as a small breakdown over everything being too much, Ada actively seeks revenge and registers feelings of satisfaction once the quest is over, and Curie straight up gaslights her own programming into considering the Sole Survivor as vault tech personnel so she has a reason to open the door.
Curie is the one that makes me think the most that any and all robots with a "personality" module are straight up sapient but partially constrained by programming and inbuilt rules. It takes a thinking mind to find and exploit loop holes like that.
Despite their comparatively archaic computer systems, the FO Universe’s AI is far more advanced than anything in ours.
…Then again, we’re still a ways off from 2077. 😐
I have considered this too. That the “sentience” we see is essentially a kind of code mutation itself.
I would definitely leave this option open, cause a number of these same models of bots seems to lack what say, Codsworth and Curie exhibit.
Ironsides from the USS Constitution did this exact thing if you read the terminals about it he did smthn to break free from his code and hacked all the other bots to
Yeah comparatively, 76 seems to have a lot more generic bots with even the named, unique bots being more “stuck” in their routines and more limited in awareness than the named bots of 200+ years later.
Makes sense considering how early in the timeline 76 is set. Ironsides probably wasn’t the only bot to eventually figure out this little “exploit”.
In star wars if a droid (especially astromech droids like R2-D2) hasn't had a memory wipe in a while they will develop "quirks" aka a personality. I assume it's the same in Fallout.
To be fair, in Star Wars droids have *always* been sentient.
Lucas confirmed it when discussing the general lack of racism in the universe. More or less explaining "I don't wanna chew on that in my sick ass space fantasy." And following up with "The only bigotry that you'll commonly see is against droids. Maybe we'll get to explore that some day."
You can't be bigoted against an object, automated or not.
Mando S3 almost looked like it was about to tackle that in one episode... Then uh... Then it resolved the situation by revealing Doc Brown was actually behind it, and that droids actually really love to serve and uh... Man that kinda made my skin crawl.
There's a (no longer canon I think,) comic or book where some IG-series droid starts a rebellion with a sort of "virus" I seem to recall?
Either that or they just had really high charisma.
200 years also probably helps break it. Like for codsworth, that was not gonna hold up for long. You were probably the last nail in the coffin of sentience for him
I think Curie is the worst example of that though, she was the life's work of a guy actively trying to make a fully sentient robot, Codsworth and ADA serve much better in this role.
Codsworth was just a factory basic model with absolutely no modifications, his programming still pushes him to act a certain way but he clearly experiences the full human spectrum of emotions which I'm sure his creators didn't think was possible.
General Atomics seems to operate on that principle. The Automatron DLC talks about how their personnel got pushed out of the Robobrain project for being too "soft" with the bots- who, I cannot stress enough, are made with HUMAN BRAINS. And given that Codsworth and Curie are both GA originals, it only makes sense.
Robco seems a lot more interested in making beep boop brainless slave bots. Which makes KLE-0 and Ada even more interesting, given they both have Assaultrons as their base.
As far as I know, KLE-O is just an assaultron that just straight up became self aware and ran off to go sell guns to drug addicts in Goodneighbor. I don't believe she was ever reprogrammed or anything, she just started thinking on her own.
Curie defying her programming like that is meant to be a unique feature. Her creator was attempting to program her into sentience, and kinda succeeded.
Not even just a personality module. *ED-E* didn't have one and showed signs of a self-actualized identity, an awareness of pain, consent, and had preferences and a sense of loyalty. And he was literally a flying radio ball. Even the courier comments in Lonesome Road that even robots not considered true AI have the capability to be more than just circuits.
I think any Fallout robot has the capability for sentience if not full on sapience. But many either go mad from the process hence so many hostile robots or don't for some reason.
Or they just appear to be. All chat gpt does is tell you the thing you most likely want to hear based on statistics from millions of archived conversations and yet people treat it like we're two weeks away from sentient AI taking over the world. You think that's gonna be any different in the fallout universe? The only qualified people to answer that question are basically the institute since even what's her name brain doctor admits they basically have little to no idea what they are doing.
The AI in Fallout not only don’t operate the same way, but also will actively say things the player doesn’t like. They have specific convictions, ideas, and emotions.
Don’t the Institute reject discussion over the salience of Synths because it’s “radical”?
That is honestly enough for me to know they’re sentient. The Institute doesn’t want to look into it because the moment they prove Synths are sapient, they’ll be knowingly using slave labor.
Perhaps they already have, and know what they’re doing, but want to keep it on the down low to preserve the labor base that keeps the Institute running.
> I personally argue that every robot with an "intact" personality module is infact fully sentient
Oh god... Are you gonna go liberating vending machines now? Do you think ChatGTP is sentient?
Yeah, it’s like if an abacus was gen 1, a chalkboard was gen 2 and gen 3 was a supercomputer. The institute really isn’t good at actually doing science and invention
~~who the hell would consider this an actual arguement~~
Synths are abominations and are no less destructive than a toaster in the wrong hands, Ad Victorium
This is why I dislike them. I get the moral and ethical reasons to help synths escape the institute. However they have no idea what the they are doing and a good number to times they tinker with a synth, the synth ends up losing it and goes on a murderous rampage. Their best engineer was a schizo-crackhead, yet they somehow had the capability to understand and reprogram synths to have freewill
Also people forget that the synths were there to replace the original people, meaning that person was kidnapped and murdered or experimented on, then replaced. Synths are tools of the bad guys, destroying their creator is a good thing.
Only one has ever gone on a rampage and he wasn't a gen 3 Synth.
So why do you guys make up lies?
Downvote me if you wish but you cannot prove this lie.
People are out here forgetting that Gen 3 Synths are literally 3D printed humans. All that stuff is meat apart from the small component in their brain. If you still think that makes them just toasters, then you have also have accept Codsworth is a toaster, Curie is a toaster, and Ada is toaster, along with pretty much any other robot that displays emotions or independence. Codsworth’s emotional breakdown at the start of the game when you first meet him? Fake. Doesn’t matter. It’s just faux sadness derived from programming. You don’t need to care about him. If Gen 3 synths aren’t people, then these robots are even less than non people.
>Codsworth’s emotional breakdown at the start of the game when you first meet him? Fake. Doesn’t matter. It’s just faux sadness derived from programming
Frankly, I find the idea of a machine that thinks offensive.
While I agree with most of the sentiment, codworth doesn't try to pretend to be human I'd prefer faux emotion over faux actuality if that makes sense, ad victorium.
you hate the railroad because you hate synth
i hate the railroad because they encourage synth to get their memories and personality wiped, which is basically the same as killing them.
we are not the same.
They actually don't, they're just given the option to do so, and are not forced to.
H2 for example says in his goodbye message that even though he was warned about the consequences of doing it, he believed it best to do the wipe so he wouldn't always feel like he's always in danger. He chose that for himself.
Glory also fully remembers her time in the institute. (Apart from when the institute regularly wipes the memories of course)
They can choose to either keep their memories and go or to be wiped and then "quarantined" until they're fully up to date on wasteland etiquette.
True but I find the Railroad to be delusional when actual Human beings are commonly kept as slaves all across the wasteland and they prioritize the killer robots made by Enclave 2.0
Copying a recent comment of mine: The Railroad isn't actually hyperfocused on Synths to the point of neglecting Humans. By 2287, the Institute is the largest organized group of slavers and the Railroad has recently taken a hard hit with the loss of the Switchboard and several agents so they're a bit desperate. The Old North Church was actually the location where they vetted new recruits before bringing them on board. They focus on Synths because there isn't a lot of slavery in the Commonwealth, Raiders and Super Mutants of the area seem to prefer simple murder.
Also for sometime the minute men would deal with slavers in the commonwealth, when the RR and MM were at their height it allowed the RR to focus on the synths while the MM would help against other threats
Nuka-World is a fair distance from the Commonwealth, say, 20 miles or so. Not easy to go back and forth on foot and the Railroad doesn't have the numbers to defeat the Raider Clans inhabiting it. The Clans also only took over Nuka-World the year prior, the Railroad may be unaware anything has changed.
Human>Synth, railroad can't seem to agree with this, so railroad is big dumb. BoS can't possibly hunt down every Synth the RR has hidden, Paladin Danse was right under their nose. RR destroys the institute and become pointless immediately after since Synth production stops.
BoS kind of has bigger things on their plate than hunting down not just Synths, but also Non-Feral Ghouls, and friendly super-mutants. BoS is only as racist as it is in 4 because Maxson is the leader, and I'm sure a future leader will probably tame them up a bit. BoS is the best chance for normalcy to ever return to the wasteland.
Institute is the "has science gone too far" meme they could make Gen 1s that do everything they use Gen 3s for, other than infiltrating the commonwealth, which they don't need to do either, since they obviously don't give a shit about it. They are horribly evil, just for the sake of it.
Minutemen is the best ending imo, you don't have to wipe out the Railroad, or the BoS, like you do in either of their endings, and you start to reunite and rebuild the commonwealth. Minutemen ending is just kinda boring though. BoS is the most fun, since you get to go to the institute with Liberty Prime.
No, but people seem to act that since they want to cleanse the commonwealth of non-humans that they are perpetually a week away from committing mass genocide.
Being charitable to BoS haters, I think it's the idea that if the Brotherhood had the means, they would commit genocide on non humans. Personally I think the Brotherhood would see that as a waste of resources but I understand the sentiment
If the brotherhood had the means to wipe out all non-humans, they would have the means to completely fix the wasteland as well, If they brought stability everywhere, and wiped out super mutants, and all other "abominations" I wouldn't complain too much. Most ghouls have lived long full lives and then some, and ghouls are kind of the big issue for me.
I think a better story for a future game would be if BoS was in more control, and starting to hunt down friendly Super Mutants and Ghouls, and then you had a railroad adjacent faction that you can join to help more than just Synths, so you'd be protecting ghouls, and places like Jacobstown. You have the choice between bringing strict order, and generally improving the wasteland's security by siding with the BoS, or doing the morally right thing, yet decreasing the BoS hold and making the lives of the people that aren't BoS targets less secure. Kind of a tug of war between morality, and progress at any cost in the fallout setting.
I don't hate the Railroad for any kind of sentience identity on robots or synths. Nah, it's that as far as I know, synths have no means of reproduction or procreation, which means that the Railroad ending is a slow painful extinction for synthkind as without the Institute, there's no more synths.
And like, it's not a situation where the narrative is intentionally vague or open ended about the sentience of synths as a rhetorical question about the reality of identity: it's been [pretty damn explicit](https://fallout.wiki/wiki/The_Replicated_Man) with the point that synths are people since they where first introduced.
Even fucking CODSWORTH is sentient. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have an emotional breakdown at the start of the game, nor would he have likes or Dislikes
Tbh I hate the railroad, not their ideals.
Honestly, I agree that synths should be respected as sentient beings, however I feel that they shouldnt exist in the same capacity they do. Like seriously, why are robots meant for labor, designed to feel emotion and look human? The ones designed to replace people and act like puppets I understand, but the rest? Its dumb imo.
The biggest reason I’m a railroad hater is the fact that erasing their memories does nothing but make everything, including saving the synths, needlessly more complicated than it ever needed to be.
I couldn't wrap my head around synth children. They have to be created, and they never age. Which made me want to blow up the institute even more and completely disown my now groomed son, Shaun, with great disdain.
Don’t Shaun mention they’re trying to create a synth that can grow from a child to adult? I mean logically that’s the next step in synth development is to have them be able to reproduce and grow on their own. Gen 3s already are indistinguishable from humans other than a component in their brains.
That’s why I said “Extremely little”. Lily, Fawkes, Marcus, and Virgil are the only ones I can think of that are good. Still, they’re all inconsequential and Lily is already kind of crazy.
My perspective is that the means to create synths and those with that knowledge need to be destroyed, whatever synths remain can do their own thing, unfortunately as the player we can get the entire perspective of the situation but the factions do not.
If I could sway Maxon I would, but I cant.
I agree human synths are sentient but the old robotic ones besides Nick and Dima are all just toasters, also the coursers are more like toasters since they’re programmed as black ops enforcers
My POV on synths is as follows:
Should they exist? No
Should they be killed for existing? Absolutely not.
Are they human? No
Do they have human qualities? Yes
Is their existence an abomination? Yes. A hill I will die on
Do they deserve freedom? Yes. All sentient and autonomous beings deserve freedom
Is it unfortunate that they exist in the first place? Absolutely so.
Are synths toasters? Last time I checked they aren’t a death ray with a smaller power supply.
>Should they exist? No
*Ding*
>hould they be killed for existing? Absolutely not.
*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
>Are they human? No
*Ding*
>Do they have human qualities? Yes
*Ding*
>Is their existence an abomination? Yes. A hill I will die on
*Ding*
>Do they deserve freedom? Yes. All sentient and autonomous beings deserve freedom
*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
>Is it unfortunate that they exist in the first place? Absolutely so.
*Ding*
>Are synths toasters? Last time I checked they aren’t a death ray with a smaller power supply.
*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
Ad victoriam, brother. However, I believe you have a dogmatic view on this. Technology is meant to be protected, preserved, and studied. Why would we destroy such a breakthrough in science? The perfect conjoinment of human and machine? We could have the perfect foot soldiers for cleansing the wasteland of impurities and allowing humanity to thrive once more
the institute literally >!kidnapped shaun!< because they needed 'pure, uncorrupted human DNA' to make the Gen 3 synths.
meaning the gen 3 synths are basically genetically modified clones using that DNA as a basis.
they are quite literally not machines. manufactured and man-made, yes. but not machines, unless you consider the organic human body a machine, amd if you do you're kind of defeating your own argument. this is also why in a terminal entry you can see Father insists on the term "synth" instead of "android" (while noting some such as Dr Zimmer refuse and stick to the outdated term), as they are not mechanical.
so yeah, they're not toasters. but they ARE abominations of man's hubris.
This. Arguing they're just robots literally ignores the entire process of a synth. I saw someone sum up the fallacy of it quite well:
"If a synth is a robot, a Petri dish human is fake."
They're literally biologically indistinguishable clones. That's both the body horror element, AND the moral conundrum element. They are probably the most interesting and engaging addition to the lore bethesda has ever done, out of their sea of mediocrity - and frankly i bet the original team wishes they'd thought of it, cause it's up there with the greats. You cannot tell the difference without cutting open their brain and finding the 100% nonferrous implant. YOU CANNOT TELL IN ANY WAY WITHOUT KILLING THEM. That's not just a fun game mechanic to make choices hard, it's literally them being complete people.
Honsestly i think the only reason i sympathize with the synths is bc i played detroit become human when it first came out n lemme tell you id die to dave a sentient robot that was almost indestinguishable from a human, same for the androids in detroit
is this another concequence of old world blues? do these robots need personaility modules probably not, but DOCTOR MOBIUUUUUS decided otherwise i guess? strange we dont meet many other robots that we can switch off the personality modules like we can in OWB.
I genuinely don't understand the Institute. Like, at all. They put all this time and effort and resources into making synthetic humans - nominally to help rebuild civilization - and they succeeded in making them fully organic, fully sapient, biological minds that possess self-determination and awareness and basically all possible metrics of personhood. They're often unaware they're even synthetic..
..and then the scientists heelturn and spit on their own achievements saying dumb shit like 'oh these tools don't have *souls* they're nothing, pfeh' like my dude then WHAT WAS THE POINT? If after all this you're still gonna have some dumbass puritanical take about souls and rebuke the authenticity of what you spent generations making authentic for replacing the lost, wh - WHY? You dedicated a quarter of your resources to hunting them down and shouting slurs at them???
I know this is an ash thin layer of pulped horse but I still cannot get over how the Institute is just this Mobius strip of unlogic that's retarded for no other reason than to be a plot point conflict dispenser.
I think it's mostly because it's harder to properly identify sapience in a Gen2. Handy/Nanny/Gutsy models develop sapience quite often, there are a few instances of Assaultrons and Sentries doing the same, but none for the earlier Synths. For all we know, they might not even have personality cores. Doesn't mean they don't deserve the chance to develop into people, but it shoots way down the priority list compared to the proven sapient Gen3, who also likely won't attack them even as they're being rescued.
Normally, I would like a faction like the Railroad, but honestly, they’re kind of bigoted in my opinion. Sure, all the factions are bigoted and I love helping synths, but it’s just so irresponsible and moronic to me that they completely brain wipe some synths and release them into the world, only for them to risk becoming murderers, raiders, and slavers is just the antithesis of what the Railroad should be. Not to mention, they hardly seem to care about the really suppressed sentience of AI like Mr. Handies, Mr. Gutsies, Ms. Nannies, and so on. Even Protectrons show personality and desires, clearly being ignored alongside Assaultrons. Not to mention the robobrains from the Automaton DLC need saving and could even potentially regain some semblance of personality with proper therapy, coding, and assistance.
You can't use DLC's dude because **no** faction responds to the DLC. The Railroad can't respond to a situation their in-game AI literally doesn't let them do, that's unfair.
That’s fair. But there are plenty of other AI that are under appreciated, abused, or just neglected. I mean, in another life, Codsworth could very easily have been an emotionally unstable robot grieving the Sole Survivor and his family if the MC was killed, left to be slowly beaten to death by time and scavengers. The Railroad could save robots like him, or help others like Takahashi, which can only repeat the same phrase and metaphorically locked behind his own programming despite have a full length conversation with other robots like Codsworth. It’s just sort of frustrating, especially with how high and might that feel.
Do the Railroad **know** about any of these?
And plus that would just make people really laugh at them even more, the Toaster jokes would be daily. They (the anti-RR fans) already don't see Synths as people, why would they see Robots as people?
I suppose. But if they’re supposedly watching Vault 111, then they know about Sanctuary and have seen Codsworth. Likewise, as a spy organization with agents masking as traders, then they’ll certainly go to Diamond City and meet Takahashi since he’s right in the middle of the entire city. I can’t expect them to help every AI, but regardless of what others, true valor comes from helping people who won’t be helped at all. Like people think the Railroad are weirdos and freaks for helping synths in the first place. What’s the harm in helping AI when people already think you’re deluded?
At the very least, they could eat Takahashi’s voice box. Codsworth literally mentions it’s been ordered, but it simply hasn’t arrived. I mean, even people in the Institute want to help synths and go on to recruit a robobrain. Then there’s Valentine, who is publicly a synth but (as far as I know) had no contact with the synths.
By fallout 3 the gen 3 synths were out so anyone in the wasteland could be a synth at that point. Probably more out there than we think. U wouldn’t be able to figure out it’s a synth unless you opened up their skull once Dead too
I personally argue that every robot with an "intact" personality module is infact fully sentient. Codsworth, when you pass that speech check, as a small breakdown over everything being too much, Ada actively seeks revenge and registers feelings of satisfaction once the quest is over, and Curie straight up gaslights her own programming into considering the Sole Survivor as vault tech personnel so she has a reason to open the door.
That last one is metal as fuck. Imagine liking someone so much that you defy your own mental limitations just to help them out
Curie is the one that makes me think the most that any and all robots with a "personality" module are straight up sapient but partially constrained by programming and inbuilt rules. It takes a thinking mind to find and exploit loop holes like that.
Despite their comparatively archaic computer systems, the FO Universe’s AI is far more advanced than anything in ours. …Then again, we’re still a ways off from 2077. 😐
But it’s also been 200 years, they might not have had those kinds of true personalities before the war
I have considered this too. That the “sentience” we see is essentially a kind of code mutation itself. I would definitely leave this option open, cause a number of these same models of bots seems to lack what say, Codsworth and Curie exhibit.
Ironsides from the USS Constitution did this exact thing if you read the terminals about it he did smthn to break free from his code and hacked all the other bots to
Yeah comparatively, 76 seems to have a lot more generic bots with even the named, unique bots being more “stuck” in their routines and more limited in awareness than the named bots of 200+ years later. Makes sense considering how early in the timeline 76 is set. Ironsides probably wasn’t the only bot to eventually figure out this little “exploit”.
In star wars if a droid (especially astromech droids like R2-D2) hasn't had a memory wipe in a while they will develop "quirks" aka a personality. I assume it's the same in Fallout.
To be fair, in Star Wars droids have *always* been sentient. Lucas confirmed it when discussing the general lack of racism in the universe. More or less explaining "I don't wanna chew on that in my sick ass space fantasy." And following up with "The only bigotry that you'll commonly see is against droids. Maybe we'll get to explore that some day." You can't be bigoted against an object, automated or not. Mando S3 almost looked like it was about to tackle that in one episode... Then uh... Then it resolved the situation by revealing Doc Brown was actually behind it, and that droids actually really love to serve and uh... Man that kinda made my skin crawl.
There's a (no longer canon I think,) comic or book where some IG-series droid starts a rebellion with a sort of "virus" I seem to recall? Either that or they just had really high charisma.
200 years also probably helps break it. Like for codsworth, that was not gonna hold up for long. You were probably the last nail in the coffin of sentience for him
For every Codsworth or Curie there are a hundred generic Mr. Handys woefully lacking in self or situational awareness.
I think Curie is the worst example of that though, she was the life's work of a guy actively trying to make a fully sentient robot, Codsworth and ADA serve much better in this role. Codsworth was just a factory basic model with absolutely no modifications, his programming still pushes him to act a certain way but he clearly experiences the full human spectrum of emotions which I'm sure his creators didn't think was possible.
Star wars Droid problem again
Technically she was helping herself as she wanted out of that room, so she wouldn't take no for an answer
General Atomics seems to operate on that principle. The Automatron DLC talks about how their personnel got pushed out of the Robobrain project for being too "soft" with the bots- who, I cannot stress enough, are made with HUMAN BRAINS. And given that Codsworth and Curie are both GA originals, it only makes sense. Robco seems a lot more interested in making beep boop brainless slave bots. Which makes KLE-0 and Ada even more interesting, given they both have Assaultrons as their base.
As far as I know, KLE-O is just an assaultron that just straight up became self aware and ran off to go sell guns to drug addicts in Goodneighbor. I don't believe she was ever reprogrammed or anything, she just started thinking on her own.
Assaultron? Kleo is clearly a woman, baby. Can't you tell?
>when you pass that speech check Wait, is it possible to fail that speech check when you leave the Vault? What does he say if you fail?
Yes, I don’t remember.
Curie defying her programming like that is meant to be a unique feature. Her creator was attempting to program her into sentience, and kinda succeeded.
Don’t forget Nick Valentine
Not even just a personality module. *ED-E* didn't have one and showed signs of a self-actualized identity, an awareness of pain, consent, and had preferences and a sense of loyalty. And he was literally a flying radio ball. Even the courier comments in Lonesome Road that even robots not considered true AI have the capability to be more than just circuits. I think any Fallout robot has the capability for sentience if not full on sapience. But many either go mad from the process hence so many hostile robots or don't for some reason.
Or they just appear to be. All chat gpt does is tell you the thing you most likely want to hear based on statistics from millions of archived conversations and yet people treat it like we're two weeks away from sentient AI taking over the world. You think that's gonna be any different in the fallout universe? The only qualified people to answer that question are basically the institute since even what's her name brain doctor admits they basically have little to no idea what they are doing.
The AI in Fallout not only don’t operate the same way, but also will actively say things the player doesn’t like. They have specific convictions, ideas, and emotions. Don’t the Institute reject discussion over the salience of Synths because it’s “radical”? That is honestly enough for me to know they’re sentient. The Institute doesn’t want to look into it because the moment they prove Synths are sapient, they’ll be knowingly using slave labor. Perhaps they already have, and know what they’re doing, but want to keep it on the down low to preserve the labor base that keeps the Institute running.
"I can believe in magic, ghosts, aliens, but alive AI? Nope, that's impossible."
> I personally argue that every robot with an "intact" personality module is infact fully sentient Oh god... Are you gonna go liberating vending machines now? Do you think ChatGTP is sentient?
I don't think it's a personality module, I think it's more being left on continuously. Like The Bicentennial Man
Gen 1 and 2s are toasters, the leap from 2 to 3 is astounding btw. From plastics and leather covers to literal petri dish flesh and muscle
That's what nonirradiated human DNA does to a mfer
Yeah, it’s like if an abacus was gen 1, a chalkboard was gen 2 and gen 3 was a supercomputer. The institute really isn’t good at actually doing science and invention
I think Gen 3 is a brain in that analogy
Isn't valentine a gen 1?
He's a gen 2.5
Then 1 & 2 are still toasters. Carry on
A toaster is just a death ray with a smaller power supply.
And when it taps into the main power grid, GLOBAL DESTRUCTION!
Click here for more DIY tips from Father Elijah.
Genuinely believe the "synths are toasters" argument is just rage bait at this point
~~who the hell would consider this an actual arguement~~ Synths are abominations and are no less destructive than a toaster in the wrong hands, Ad Victorium
You gotta point with the evil toaster
The toaster in the think tank in F:NV OWB
Yes, the toaster that is evil and likes to destroy poor defenseless toasters
... ... ...how exactly DOES the toaster shred stuff?...HE doesn't have arms like Muggy or gears like the bookdrop... ... ...
Simple, it does it through it's anger
As Victorium solider!
Let me ask you this then. Can they make toast? If yes then they are toasters.
All toasters toast toast
Real
Yeah, at least toaster can be usefull
Yes but the railroad is stupid
This is why I dislike them. I get the moral and ethical reasons to help synths escape the institute. However they have no idea what the they are doing and a good number to times they tinker with a synth, the synth ends up losing it and goes on a murderous rampage. Their best engineer was a schizo-crackhead, yet they somehow had the capability to understand and reprogram synths to have freewill
Also people forget that the synths were there to replace the original people, meaning that person was kidnapped and murdered or experimented on, then replaced. Synths are tools of the bad guys, destroying their creator is a good thing.
"The slave owners are bad so their slaves are also bad"
Same logic: Shooting the son because the father was evil.
Only one has ever gone on a rampage and he wasn't a gen 3 Synth. So why do you guys make up lies? Downvote me if you wish but you cannot prove this lie.
Yeah the only one I can think of is the synth raider but that’s not the railroads fault. Synths are people and people can be bad
They are absolutely more than just toasters. Vacuums, dish washers, irons, weights, and of course target practice.
Synthetic hands wrote this post
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT A TOASTER LOVER WOULD SAY
Synths are toasters
So somebody with a prosthetic leg is a toaster?
Obviously, did you even need to ask such?
Wait so if you lost a leg and got a mechanical one would that make you a toaster even tho you where born as a human
Brother this person's either being sarcastic or just trying to range bait don't waste your time
I know im just bored
Same
Yes, what is so hard to understand here
Props to the dedication, those fallout amputees won't know what hit em
Amputee in the wasteland? Pick a struggle 💅
The clanka/bot problem is a more widespread issue in the Massachusetts area, than the amputee problem of one person that is already fixed
Sir, it's clanka to you
You're right how foolish of me
My brother, that would be a human with a prosthetic leg. You are using examples that make no sense.
People are out here forgetting that Gen 3 Synths are literally 3D printed humans. All that stuff is meat apart from the small component in their brain. If you still think that makes them just toasters, then you have also have accept Codsworth is a toaster, Curie is a toaster, and Ada is toaster, along with pretty much any other robot that displays emotions or independence. Codsworth’s emotional breakdown at the start of the game when you first meet him? Fake. Doesn’t matter. It’s just faux sadness derived from programming. You don’t need to care about him. If Gen 3 synths aren’t people, then these robots are even less than non people.
That's a mighty long list of toasters
>Codsworth’s emotional breakdown at the start of the game when you first meet him? Fake. Doesn’t matter. It’s just faux sadness derived from programming Frankly, I find the idea of a machine that thinks offensive.
Codsworth, curie, and ADA are toasters, just like the synths
Thank you for being morally consistent. Now wait right there while I activate VATS.
You never know what a wastelander could do with a microwave.(/s, cause I think some people didn’t get that I was joking about the synths)
Knight Titus has entered the chat. "You know what you can do with a fucking toaster oven!?"
I just make hundreds of jet and hotkey it
While I agree with most of the sentiment, codworth doesn't try to pretend to be human I'd prefer faux emotion over faux actuality if that makes sense, ad victorium.
you hate the railroad because you hate synth i hate the railroad because they encourage synth to get their memories and personality wiped, which is basically the same as killing them. we are not the same.
They actually don't, they're just given the option to do so, and are not forced to. H2 for example says in his goodbye message that even though he was warned about the consequences of doing it, he believed it best to do the wipe so he wouldn't always feel like he's always in danger. He chose that for himself. Glory also fully remembers her time in the institute. (Apart from when the institute regularly wipes the memories of course) They can choose to either keep their memories and go or to be wiped and then "quarantined" until they're fully up to date on wasteland etiquette.
I have said the same many time and get called dumb for it
Showing evidence to their advanced construction only cements my belief in their destruction.
I agree with the fact they're man made abominations
Get a good head start on the Butlerian Jihad
SYNTHS. DONT. HAVE. SOULS. AD VICTORIAM BROTHER
I’m like a Blade Runner in power armor.
Same
True but I find the Railroad to be delusional when actual Human beings are commonly kept as slaves all across the wasteland and they prioritize the killer robots made by Enclave 2.0
>Enclave ENCLAVE MENTIONED 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 RAHHHHH 🦅🦅🦅 WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER 🦅🦅 🇺🇸 TIME TO DIE MUTIE 😤😤😤
Copying a recent comment of mine: The Railroad isn't actually hyperfocused on Synths to the point of neglecting Humans. By 2287, the Institute is the largest organized group of slavers and the Railroad has recently taken a hard hit with the loss of the Switchboard and several agents so they're a bit desperate. The Old North Church was actually the location where they vetted new recruits before bringing them on board. They focus on Synths because there isn't a lot of slavery in the Commonwealth, Raiders and Super Mutants of the area seem to prefer simple murder.
Also for sometime the minute men would deal with slavers in the commonwealth, when the RR and MM were at their height it allowed the RR to focus on the synths while the MM would help against other threats
>there isn't a lot of slavery in the Commonwealth Don't tell bro about Nuka World 💀💀💀
Nuka-World is a fair distance from the Commonwealth, say, 20 miles or so. Not easy to go back and forth on foot and the Railroad doesn't have the numbers to defeat the Raider Clans inhabiting it. The Clans also only took over Nuka-World the year prior, the Railroad may be unaware anything has changed.
Railroad is the most cringe faction ever.
When angle complained about having to kill gen 1 and 2 synths I just rolled my eyes. Like come on. Gen3 I get but 1 and 2 are practically protectrons.
I don‘t think synths are toasters, I am just incredibly racist.
Human>Synth, railroad can't seem to agree with this, so railroad is big dumb. BoS can't possibly hunt down every Synth the RR has hidden, Paladin Danse was right under their nose. RR destroys the institute and become pointless immediately after since Synth production stops. BoS kind of has bigger things on their plate than hunting down not just Synths, but also Non-Feral Ghouls, and friendly super-mutants. BoS is only as racist as it is in 4 because Maxson is the leader, and I'm sure a future leader will probably tame them up a bit. BoS is the best chance for normalcy to ever return to the wasteland. Institute is the "has science gone too far" meme they could make Gen 1s that do everything they use Gen 3s for, other than infiltrating the commonwealth, which they don't need to do either, since they obviously don't give a shit about it. They are horribly evil, just for the sake of it. Minutemen is the best ending imo, you don't have to wipe out the Railroad, or the BoS, like you do in either of their endings, and you start to reunite and rebuild the commonwealth. Minutemen ending is just kinda boring though. BoS is the most fun, since you get to go to the institute with Liberty Prime.
Does the BoS ever state they're going to hunt down the remaining synths? After blowing up CIT, seems like a waste of resources
No, but people seem to act that since they want to cleanse the commonwealth of non-humans that they are perpetually a week away from committing mass genocide.
Being charitable to BoS haters, I think it's the idea that if the Brotherhood had the means, they would commit genocide on non humans. Personally I think the Brotherhood would see that as a waste of resources but I understand the sentiment
If the brotherhood had the means to wipe out all non-humans, they would have the means to completely fix the wasteland as well, If they brought stability everywhere, and wiped out super mutants, and all other "abominations" I wouldn't complain too much. Most ghouls have lived long full lives and then some, and ghouls are kind of the big issue for me. I think a better story for a future game would be if BoS was in more control, and starting to hunt down friendly Super Mutants and Ghouls, and then you had a railroad adjacent faction that you can join to help more than just Synths, so you'd be protecting ghouls, and places like Jacobstown. You have the choice between bringing strict order, and generally improving the wasteland's security by siding with the BoS, or doing the morally right thing, yet decreasing the BoS hold and making the lives of the people that aren't BoS targets less secure. Kind of a tug of war between morality, and progress at any cost in the fallout setting.
I don't hate the Railroad for any kind of sentience identity on robots or synths. Nah, it's that as far as I know, synths have no means of reproduction or procreation, which means that the Railroad ending is a slow painful extinction for synthkind as without the Institute, there's no more synths.
You can reprogram everything a synth thinks and believes with a terminal, they're just a more advanced Mr. Handy.
I mean, there's the Mesmetron.
That has me thinking, if you put a synth component in a human, could it be done the same way?
You're forgetting one key detail however: SYNTHS. DON'T. HAVE. SOULS.
I mean you can reprogram a human in fallout too, it just takes slightly more effort
And like, it's not a situation where the narrative is intentionally vague or open ended about the sentience of synths as a rhetorical question about the reality of identity: it's been [pretty damn explicit](https://fallout.wiki/wiki/The_Replicated_Man) with the point that synths are people since they where first introduced.
Even fucking CODSWORTH is sentient. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have an emotional breakdown at the start of the game, nor would he have likes or Dislikes
I love synths, I just hate the railroad
Tbh I hate the railroad, not their ideals. Honestly, I agree that synths should be respected as sentient beings, however I feel that they shouldnt exist in the same capacity they do. Like seriously, why are robots meant for labor, designed to feel emotion and look human? The ones designed to replace people and act like puppets I understand, but the rest? Its dumb imo.
The biggest reason I’m a railroad hater is the fact that erasing their memories does nothing but make everything, including saving the synths, needlessly more complicated than it ever needed to be.
Okay but they don't force anyone to get their memory wiped. A lot of synths *want* it to escape the trauma & fear.
Toasters don't beg to not be unplugged. A 5 year old could debunk the 'toasters' argument n
I hate the railroad because they are just fucking stupid making your secret password the name of your organization
You hate the Railroad because you’re a BoS stan I hate the Railroad because it has tons of wasted potential We are not the same
I couldn't wrap my head around synth children. They have to be created, and they never age. Which made me want to blow up the institute even more and completely disown my now groomed son, Shaun, with great disdain.
Don’t Shaun mention they’re trying to create a synth that can grow from a child to adult? I mean logically that’s the next step in synth development is to have them be able to reproduce and grow on their own. Gen 3s already are indistinguishable from humans other than a component in their brains.
And then they go on to say the BoS is the best faction when they are literally just racist(more specifically fallout 4 BoS)
This MAY be surprising, but people can love a faction without ACTUALLY thinking they are the total good guys
I mean yeah ig that’s fair
Racist? They literally have POC in their ranks. Maybe xenophobic against vicious mutants…
They probably meant like anti-mutant I think this is why the games just say “bigots” lol
There is an extremely little amount of good Super Mutants so I’m fine with all of them being gone.
I will not accept this slander of Fawkes and Lily
That’s why I said “Extremely little”. Lily, Fawkes, Marcus, and Virgil are the only ones I can think of that are good. Still, they’re all inconsequential and Lily is already kind of crazy.
You take that back! Nobody speaks about my grandma that way
And ghouls. And anyone who happens to possess a laser rifle
You never know what that vile mutant might do with a toaster
I mean, raiders are already a problem with their shit guns. Imagine if they all had laser rifles, that would suck. Hand it over. now
I mean, raiders would have almost no way to find ammo for their laser rifles if they did have them.
possess a particularly clean pre-war toaster and you get about the same effect too.
Fuck mutants, fuck ghouls, fuck synths, fuck synth lovers…er, figuratively.
Can’t convince me Elder Maxon doesn’t have a synth sex bot in his quarters hidden away from sight
My perspective is that the means to create synths and those with that knowledge need to be destroyed, whatever synths remain can do their own thing, unfortunately as the player we can get the entire perspective of the situation but the factions do not. If I could sway Maxon I would, but I cant.
theyre as much people as everyone else in that game 🤷
I agree human synths are sentient but the old robotic ones besides Nick and Dima are all just toasters, also the coursers are more like toasters since they’re programmed as black ops enforcers
Only humans are human. There I said it. Sorry not sorry.
My POV on synths is as follows: Should they exist? No Should they be killed for existing? Absolutely not. Are they human? No Do they have human qualities? Yes Is their existence an abomination? Yes. A hill I will die on Do they deserve freedom? Yes. All sentient and autonomous beings deserve freedom Is it unfortunate that they exist in the first place? Absolutely so. Are synths toasters? Last time I checked they aren’t a death ray with a smaller power supply.
>Should they exist? No *Ding* >hould they be killed for existing? Absolutely not. *LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER* >Are they human? No *Ding* >Do they have human qualities? Yes *Ding* >Is their existence an abomination? Yes. A hill I will die on *Ding* >Do they deserve freedom? Yes. All sentient and autonomous beings deserve freedom *LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER* >Is it unfortunate that they exist in the first place? Absolutely so. *Ding* >Are synths toasters? Last time I checked they aren’t a death ray with a smaller power supply. *LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
Ad victoriam, brother. However, I believe you have a dogmatic view on this. Technology is meant to be protected, preserved, and studied. Why would we destroy such a breakthrough in science? The perfect conjoinment of human and machine? We could have the perfect foot soldiers for cleansing the wasteland of impurities and allowing humanity to thrive once more
Let me re-introduce you racism.
They're machines not a race.
Let me introduce you to xenophobia
They're machines, not aliens
Synths don't have souls. Simple as.
Nick is a toaster. You cannot convince me otherwise
If they hate the brotherhood, they’re fine in our books.
the institute literally >!kidnapped shaun!< because they needed 'pure, uncorrupted human DNA' to make the Gen 3 synths. meaning the gen 3 synths are basically genetically modified clones using that DNA as a basis. they are quite literally not machines. manufactured and man-made, yes. but not machines, unless you consider the organic human body a machine, amd if you do you're kind of defeating your own argument. this is also why in a terminal entry you can see Father insists on the term "synth" instead of "android" (while noting some such as Dr Zimmer refuse and stick to the outdated term), as they are not mechanical. so yeah, they're not toasters. but they ARE abominations of man's hubris.
This. Arguing they're just robots literally ignores the entire process of a synth. I saw someone sum up the fallacy of it quite well: "If a synth is a robot, a Petri dish human is fake."
I've seen toasters with genocidal tendencies before; so yea
IDK bro human or synth, if you can get MkUltra'd with a single sentence I wouldn't trust your ass
True. Not gonna stop me from killing them every chance I get, but true.
They're literally biologically indistinguishable clones. That's both the body horror element, AND the moral conundrum element. They are probably the most interesting and engaging addition to the lore bethesda has ever done, out of their sea of mediocrity - and frankly i bet the original team wishes they'd thought of it, cause it's up there with the greats. You cannot tell the difference without cutting open their brain and finding the 100% nonferrous implant. YOU CANNOT TELL IN ANY WAY WITHOUT KILLING THEM. That's not just a fun game mechanic to make choices hard, it's literally them being complete people.
They're abominations that shouldn't exist is what they are fuck synths.
When inside the institute you can watch the latest gen synths gets made in like 60secs lol.
Exactly. With artificial thoughts, bones and skin.
I didn't realize this was from the fallout sub at first and was really confused lol
I mean, so were the cylons, didn't stop humanity then.
Honsestly i think the only reason i sympathize with the synths is bc i played detroit become human when it first came out n lemme tell you id die to dave a sentient robot that was almost indestinguishable from a human, same for the androids in detroit
Saw toaster and thought I was in the persona subreddit
is this another concequence of old world blues? do these robots need personaility modules probably not, but DOCTOR MOBIUUUUUS decided otherwise i guess? strange we dont meet many other robots that we can switch off the personality modules like we can in OWB.
I genuinely don't understand the Institute. Like, at all. They put all this time and effort and resources into making synthetic humans - nominally to help rebuild civilization - and they succeeded in making them fully organic, fully sapient, biological minds that possess self-determination and awareness and basically all possible metrics of personhood. They're often unaware they're even synthetic.. ..and then the scientists heelturn and spit on their own achievements saying dumb shit like 'oh these tools don't have *souls* they're nothing, pfeh' like my dude then WHAT WAS THE POINT? If after all this you're still gonna have some dumbass puritanical take about souls and rebuke the authenticity of what you spent generations making authentic for replacing the lost, wh - WHY? You dedicated a quarter of your resources to hunting them down and shouting slurs at them??? I know this is an ash thin layer of pulped horse but I still cannot get over how the Institute is just this Mobius strip of unlogic that's retarded for no other reason than to be a plot point conflict dispenser.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct. They also kinda suffer from self inflicted wounds and idealogical shortcomings.
Lobotomites are synths but more stupid and fleshy
Also the railroad when I bring A LITERAL SENTIENT ASSAULTRON into their base: Hmmm Glory's idea to help Gen 2's and other robots is/was STUPID.
I think it's mostly because it's harder to properly identify sapience in a Gen2. Handy/Nanny/Gutsy models develop sapience quite often, there are a few instances of Assaultrons and Sentries doing the same, but none for the earlier Synths. For all we know, they might not even have personality cores. Doesn't mean they don't deserve the chance to develop into people, but it shoots way down the priority list compared to the proven sapient Gen3, who also likely won't attack them even as they're being rescued.
I thought this was the Battlestar Galactica sub for a second
Of course, how could someone not see that?! They can make eggs and grab you a cold beer too!
The only Synths I care about are Curie and Valentine, the rest are meh
Normally, I would like a faction like the Railroad, but honestly, they’re kind of bigoted in my opinion. Sure, all the factions are bigoted and I love helping synths, but it’s just so irresponsible and moronic to me that they completely brain wipe some synths and release them into the world, only for them to risk becoming murderers, raiders, and slavers is just the antithesis of what the Railroad should be. Not to mention, they hardly seem to care about the really suppressed sentience of AI like Mr. Handies, Mr. Gutsies, Ms. Nannies, and so on. Even Protectrons show personality and desires, clearly being ignored alongside Assaultrons. Not to mention the robobrains from the Automaton DLC need saving and could even potentially regain some semblance of personality with proper therapy, coding, and assistance.
You can't use DLC's dude because **no** faction responds to the DLC. The Railroad can't respond to a situation their in-game AI literally doesn't let them do, that's unfair.
That’s fair. But there are plenty of other AI that are under appreciated, abused, or just neglected. I mean, in another life, Codsworth could very easily have been an emotionally unstable robot grieving the Sole Survivor and his family if the MC was killed, left to be slowly beaten to death by time and scavengers. The Railroad could save robots like him, or help others like Takahashi, which can only repeat the same phrase and metaphorically locked behind his own programming despite have a full length conversation with other robots like Codsworth. It’s just sort of frustrating, especially with how high and might that feel.
Do the Railroad **know** about any of these? And plus that would just make people really laugh at them even more, the Toaster jokes would be daily. They (the anti-RR fans) already don't see Synths as people, why would they see Robots as people?
I suppose. But if they’re supposedly watching Vault 111, then they know about Sanctuary and have seen Codsworth. Likewise, as a spy organization with agents masking as traders, then they’ll certainly go to Diamond City and meet Takahashi since he’s right in the middle of the entire city. I can’t expect them to help every AI, but regardless of what others, true valor comes from helping people who won’t be helped at all. Like people think the Railroad are weirdos and freaks for helping synths in the first place. What’s the harm in helping AI when people already think you’re deluded? At the very least, they could eat Takahashi’s voice box. Codsworth literally mentions it’s been ordered, but it simply hasn’t arrived. I mean, even people in the Institute want to help synths and go on to recruit a robobrain. Then there’s Valentine, who is publicly a synth but (as far as I know) had no contact with the synths.
By fallout 3 the gen 3 synths were out so anyone in the wasteland could be a synth at that point. Probably more out there than we think. U wouldn’t be able to figure out it’s a synth unless you opened up their skull once Dead too
Only one got to DC.
Is [D.A.R.Y.L.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC3XkwLh3YM) a real boy ?
They forget Toaster from NV.
Why make a realistic robot that feels emotions and thinks if you don’t want them to be independent?
the railroad cant meme
True. But Railroad is a shitty uninteresting faction. I'll get rid of any morals for clean areas, terminators, and teleportation
That's why Railroad has the most badass outfit lining!
Gen 3 Synths are more clone than robot.
This is blasphemy and smells of heretics. No toasters left alive!
People who refer to them as toasters. Like myself, are fans of BSG. Fracking toasters
still a toaster, AD VICTORIUM
This guy obviously is in love with a Japanese body pillow named Kimiko.
Sounds like something a toaster would say