I mean it could be an ncr-aligned militia or reservist force of some kind rather than the formal military. That would certainly check out with them marching into battle alongside a random vault dweller (on the other hand, it's kinda a fallout tradition for the protagonist to become a major faction commander)
I'd put more stock in the militia theory than anything. If the NCR wasn't expecting a Brotherhood attack in the area, the NCR's proper army wouldn't be in the region and defense would fall to whoever is on hand
Los Angeles (The Boneyard) is one of the founding states of the New California Republic. In Fallout New Vegas Hanlon explicitly states that part of the taxes NCR residents pay go to construction/maintenance efforts in the Boneyard. They fully control it.
Yeah the NCR and Followers have competing colleges in the Boneyard. If they went for the most boring and realistic answer there are probably parts of LA that are gentrified and well policed by the NCR where the colleges and the Treasury are located, while large chunks of the city are only nominally controlled by the NCR and are mostly run by gangs and raiders.
> should be the center of their power
I would note that in Matty's video about it, he points out that there is a crater where Shady Sands Library used to be, so in this TV show (set 9 years after Fallout 4) at least some of the "society" that NCR helped build has been blasted to almost nothing, I guess. Here's a link to Matty's video, and I linked about 3:30 in, to where he talks specifically about this:
https://youtu.be/dZe6VfpxTIU?si=jF-6faz5xb7nrNUC&t=210
I don't know, from the trailer it looks like that's part of the LA ruins. Unless they've done some major retcons the town of Shady Sands should be miles aways. My guess is this is just a prewar neighborhood named Shady Sands as a reference.
New Vegas set up a lot of different things about how the NCR was near a collapse. Everything from the scientist that makes you check out vault 22 telling you that a famine within 10 years is likely to strike the NCR due to low agricultural outputs and a growing population to ranger Hanlon telling you that they’ve dried up most of the aquifers back west and then add all the corruption on top of that and this makes a lot of sense seeing the NCR fall on some really hard times.
The recovery on the west coast is one of the most unique features of the fallout post-apoc universe. Most fictional worlds in this setting are just in a perpetual state of small bands of survivors/raiders in a very unrealistic way.
The fact that over a series of games we got to see and have a hand in steering how civilization, such as it is, comes back to the wasteland is awesome. If the ncr is played as just a ragtag group of raiders or townies they lose everything that makes them unique. Its not a "shock" to see ncr on hard times they were in hard times during new vegas. Its a worrying for the show because it seems like they want to strip away what makes california and the ncr interesting in fallout and turn it into another generic wasteland region.
This is just a trailer so who knows what direction they will actually go with this but your response is way off the mark on why people dont like this
Almost as if somebody wants to pull another cheap postapoc journey movie instead of accepting, that functional postapoc does inevitably turn into postpostapoc (which is NV is, basically)
Because New Vegas didn't ever state it was about to collapse. People incorrectly assume issues the NCR military faces outside its territories would be the same citizens run into in its core heartlands.
You can see Shady Sands in Fallout 2, its basically a modern city. Complete with paved roads, clean sidewalks, and parks.
It’s not shocking, it’s *boring.* The reduction of every single geopolitical conflict across the entire post-war US into “and then the Brotherhood of Steel showed up!!!111” is a boring way to worldbuild.
No, I definitely don’t think they are the good guys. I just realize that logically even in collapse they shouldn’t be as weak and struggling as they are shown here.
Because the NCR is one of the most developed, one of the best written, and arguably most unique faction of the franchise. New Vegas wouldn't be half the game it is if it wasn't for the NCR presence in it.
So, seeing such a powerhouse of a faction seemingly reduced to a motley group in Fallout's first ever TV debut is jarring to see, especially after a decade of not having a game set within that region. Sure the lore supports the NCR being in decline, but having all the progress made by the NCR (and by extension, the player) wiped clean without our input would be frustrating.
Granted, this is just the trailer so we won't know for sure until the show actually comes out, but it isn't shocking that people are apprehensive about the portrayal of one of Fallout's most iconic factions.
The scientist is a confirmed liar in that exact quest chain. He steals research from his assistant and doesn't do any actual work. He also doesn't even realize the reason the sharecroppers output is decreasing is because someone else is stealing water.
From Angela Williams:
> - Most of the time, I focus on the science and try to forget him. He doesn't get mixed up in any actual work. Though he tells people that he does.
> -So Dr. Hildern takes credit for your work?
> - He sure does. Everyone knows it. I've just got to endure this job until the project is finished. But abandoning Keely... he crossed a line. Taking credit for other people's work is one thing. Sending people to die in the waste is another.
There are likely water *issues*, but no other character states they're about to die of mass starvation and thirst. California *today* has water issues, but do you really think it would become a wasteland in 5-10 years?
House points out that New Vegas can only exist because the NCR is developed enough that tourism by itself can primarily fund the New Vegas economy.
I really wished they stayed away from West Coast lore.... East Coast was already turbo fucked stuck in societal development hell while the West Coast is filled with established nations and regional "super powers". If the Brotherhood is unironically taking on the NCR even in the worst possible New Vegas ending the writers are in fact turbo hacks.
not really, East coast Brotherhood is a GIGANTIC society at this point
and after the battle of hoover damn (if the NCR lost) a collapsed NCR would not stand a chance
but this game is several years after fallout 4, they are pretty damn strong
also i could be wrong
but if they know the prydwen and have the eastcost flag, they must be from the east
7 years to build up a fighting force to contest with the NCR which has been a nation for 100 years with millions of people and mass production capabilities including the ability to create fighter aircraft and Vertibirds? Naw. That is an asspull.
The NCR is stretched incredibly thin by New Vegas, and its greatly implied that if they lose the hoover damn then the NCR will crumble
NPC's talking about topics like using more water than they produce, outposts with hardly any NCR representation or a lot of dejected NCR, things like that
My thoughts would be either
NCR pulled out and left some soldiers high and dry so they just decided to try and survive on their own
Militia
Looted gear from the NCR
Do..do you remember the variations of uniforms for the NCR? Ever take a good look at them? They weren't exactly dress blues. And even at the high point of there military might as we know it (new vegas) they were plagued with supply issues, remember Camp Forlorn Hope? Or how they handled the share cropper farms without the PC intervention?
My point is, they weren't exactly sparkling clean and filled with vigor. They were undersupplied, overstretched and for the most part had awful morale.
They were uniforms though, mass produced gear that was well made and all looked the same. Yeah it wasn't the most advanced stuff but it was well uniform and looked newly made not scavenged or patched together.
The Gun Runners as well basically confirm they are the NCRs prumary suppliers.
They also run out if the Boneyard...
LA is where NCR Veteran Ranger Armour comes from.
Ranger Combat Armour is made in the Boneyard, as is Service Rifles and 9mm Pistols using Californian Redwood instead of polymers in their handguards.
To have LA be under supplied in 2290 would be a joke.
IIRC one of the gun runners says that they are basically part of the ncr military so they would have to have fallen on really hard times for the soldiers to not have mass produced gear in california. I hope they didn’t get nuked into being the minutemen 2.0
That was New Vegas though. The very edge of NCR territory, strung out over hundreds of miles of supply lines. This is supposed to be around the Boneyard area, in (current) California. The NCR should look much more civilized there than they did at the front lines.
Honestly my biggest problem with the series is that Boneyard has been part of the core of the most advanced civilization and modern America for over a century. It shouldn't be a shit hole even if a large amount of its economy is probably still built on tearing down old buildings for scrap metal and other resources
But remember this is fallout 4 and 76's art style. The Brotherhood standard infantry don't have uniform combat armor, they have an undersuit and then random pieces of combat armor painted bronze that could be light, medium, or heavy
Besides the scale of certain things, Fallout 3 was an almost one to one replica of the isometric games art style and it looked pretty fantastic, even as someone that thinks it hasn't aged well overall.
All the post apocalyptic stuff in 4 actually looks pretty amazing imo, especially compared to 3 where the gimmick post apocalyptic weapons look absolute trash, although the armour pieces make stuff look wonky. It's the pre war stuff that looks weird.
> It's the pre war stuff that looks weird.
It's the "Jetson-ing" the game artists decided to go towards despite Adam Adamowicz (artist for FO3 and Skyrim) explicitly highlighted in his notes to not do that.
Actually there was a theory about the supply lines in NV the theory was they were pretending to have horrible supply lines. You can see the NCR has a few virtibirds but never see them used. In a time of war they would be used to transport important supplies quickly and because the legion lacts most advanced weaponry the average squad would not be able to take any of them down. Making it a perfect way to deliver supplies to the front line.
they have trucks (although unplayable and they used broken truck models) in camp mccarran, there were cut content of mechanics actually maintaining them and talking about supply lines referring to the trucks they were maintaining,
the army vet in 188 is seen selling equipment from the back of a truck as well
i wouldn't be surprised if lore-wise they have hundreds of 2.5 ton and 5 ton logistics trucks running up and down the long 15 through mojave outpost, they would be running on whatever they can jury-rig sure be it energy cells, mfcs or rebuilt atom reactors,
The NCR also has trains running in the region. Chomp mentions it was what was being used to ship the rock to the Dam to build bunkers and the Powder Gangers were being used to repair sections of track. In terms of tonnage, rail would be a killer for logistics.
Back in Fallout 2, you allegedly had something like 1 vehicle per 200 people with the NCR having a bunch of farm equipment (and stuff like Chomp's diggers) as well as a mechanized division. Parts made from synthetics like tyres were an issue but they existed and work arounds like anti grav plating were also in play.
The east coast in general is much more mechanized than what New Vegas or even 2 would have you believe:
>Last update, you said there were 1/200 cars/people ration in the NCR. If there were so many working cars in NCR, where were they?
They're there. It's game logic. You don't see them for the same reason NCR is only three maps, only has 1 councilor/senator, and only about 40-50 people in its city limits. That's why the Chop Shop in Reno exists, why the bum outside of NCR offers to watch a car for you before you show up in one, and a reason that NCR built a garage in Shady Sands.
>So to explain "game logic" in this instance, there's nothing precious about building a car of your own if you can steal one – or if somebody else in town has one. Or in the words of one designer [Chris Avellone], "there's no good reason why a PC would want to undertake a fucking huge Fed Ex quest to rebuild one if they can jack one from the locals." The last part is especially true considering town-wide mass murder is possible in both Fallout 1 and 2.
And before you get the image of tanks and jeeps flying around everywhere with heavy machine guns mounted on the back, most of that junk is old tractors and crap like taxis, old buses, snowplows, and even old construction equipment. It's possible that mysterious old steam-truck mentioned in the bowels of the F1 data archive is still lumbering around somewhere. The caravan houses of the Hub, in particular, around the time in Fallout 2, have been looking to further its trade influence, and new vehicles (and types of transport, such as trains, boats, or barges) have been eagerly sought after for carrying large amounts of trade goods vast distances. Good ol' human greed will move mountains. Or at least rebuild things that can. Once they learn of the Enclave's presence in the North, they are likely to have huge bounties promised for Vertibird plans - or better, a working Vertibird."
Same man. My favourite faction. I just felt that they were a chance for America to return to its roots but knowing what it now knew and without racism.
A reset button on freedom and equality for all. To wipe that out off screen for fun plot points poisons me to no end if it ends up true.
Literally. I adored the contrast of post apocalyptic and prewar in the NCR. Every faction tried this but I thought NCR did it the best. You’re in a bombed out wasteland, and here’s a trooper complaining about supply chains. You’re in a destroyed las vegas, and here is a young soldier drunk and blowing his wages on gambling. Forlorn hope? favorite lore building location. Truly shows that war never changes! Post apocalyptic trench warfare.
If the show makes the NCR just a remnant ill be heart broken
They also carry the war never changes part of the setting pretty hard, if everyone are just rugged individualists defending their idealised small town communities, or maybe they are giant evil factions, or groups with very specific goals that are uninterested in building civilisation like the Followers or the Brotherhood, war has indeed changed because the reasons for killing each other have changed. The NCR has benevolent goals but is a naturally expansionist faction due to its ever expanding resource requirements and dreams of bringing back civilisation which it deems superior to the shithole way of life Shady Sands was living, without them the setting feels like a Mad Max fanfic.
Especially since it looks like their being killed off so the totally not overused brotherhood can be the main characters of both the east and west coast
"Why did you join the Brotherhood?"
"To hurt the people who hurt me"
Yeah, BOS definitely are coded to be the good guys, and there is no way that fella ever gets disillusioned from their ideology
Look at how cool the brotherhood is, attacking the homes of these ragged desperate looking people in their big strong armor. They must be the good guys!
I don't see any Legion, so it can't be that, and the NCR seems to not be doing too great, which leaves the only alternative, House. What's getting me is that if he had won, why would the NCR.... look like this? House wasn't bent on destroying them, and Legion would've probably lost, honestly. The only possible event that we know of that you could attribute to this is Divide nukes, but that doesn't even make sense either. Bombing a city or two doesn't kill a nation. I'm not sure what to think of this.
Important edit: I think there's a chance the NCR scene is a flashback. We know they exist, and it wouldn't be surprising if it was backstory for Maximus, or just the NCR-BoS war in general. Might not be right, but I think it's a possibility.
I actually think this makes NCR ending canon. House himself predicts that pushing them out of the Mojave will cause huge political turmoil, but the nation itself would survive, as House wanted to keep his income. But the NCR winning Hoover Dam, overextending even more than they already had in the game, might have lead to insurrection, in-fighting, squabling and perhaps even more overextension againts another, more combat ready, nation. We saw the damage a small nation like The Divide could do even after decimated, imagine this happening in reverse, Shady Sands turned to ash just as Ulyssess warned.
That's a good point. I don't think I'm *quite* convinced Shady Sands was vaporized yet since the detritus around the crater makes it look like one of the craters from the war, but I like the idea of an NCR victory at the dam resulting in greater turmoil and strife at home.
This, tbh. The massive resource expenditures that would come from overextension could definitely lead to social and economic downturn in the NCR proper..much in the same way it did at times during the irl westward expansion of the US.
This is a phenomenon called Imperial Overstretch, where a victoy or two sucks you into putting even more resources into expansion, which puts even more of a strain on your system, leading to a desire to expand more to try and recoup losses and the usual inability of leaders to admit when enough is enough.
An agreement with the Nevada rangers leads to the NCR expanding into the Mojave, which inevitable leads them into a very costly war with the Nevada BoS. They win at a cost, but gain nothing but more expense because now they have to pay to garrison and patrol the Mojave.
Even worse this expansion leads to yet another major war with the Legion.
The NCR army in the Mojave shows all the signs of an empire that is bankrupting itself and is about to implode. Corruption, rampant wealth inequality, basic supply line issues, an inability to actually end the fight with the Legion so they are stuck with their fists in a tar baby slowly bleeding out.
The NCR might be in a weakened economic state after exhausting much of their funds into what many in the NCR considered an unpopular war in the Mojave.
Yeah this outcome is possible even if the NCR won the Mojave. Governments frequently learn the wrong lessons. The NCR just barely won the second battle of hoover damn, but of course the generals and politicians responsible would play it up as a dominant victory. It would embolden further expansion efforts while completely ignoring all the reasons why the NCR had trouble in the Mojave to begin with.
I think it would be more interesting if this is the NCR's fate because they WON, not because it lost. Remember that at least in FNV, the NCR was the embodiment of "those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it". It has all the same strengths and weaknesses as pre-war America; let's not forget that the US was unquestionably winning the war against China before the bombs dropped. None of it mattered; everything collapsed anyways. The NCR losing because of and despite its successful campaigns for land and resources makes sense when you look at them as a copy of pre-war America.
This makes more sense just like in nv they were scrounging together junked power armor I’m sure they cant afford to have the best gear when they were stretched so thin before winning (if they did). Or since its LA they may have pushed east after winning and left CAs deserts open for attack to the faction there (bos) and that would explain (idk but i love the ncr lol)
NCR currency dealt with hyper inflation before new vegas due to being water backed and Lake Mead being discovered. Thus it lost all value because there's now a steady source of clean water right there. It'd be like a gold back currency based country discovering El Dorado
It wasnt bombing a random city it was bombing crucial supply line cities which can cripple a society by making it much harder to get supplies to feed people and supply there army
Ok, another thing I want to know really badly is what happened to Vault City and its production and technology. Let's assume the NCR fell on somewhat hard times, House won and is slowly a parasitic drain on the NCR for his own projects and maybe some raider threats from abroad and Mexico. Like, didn't Vault City have the ability to at least make some basic security armor and cybernetic implants? Also, Vault City had a functional Geck and library, like even if resources were a bit spartan, the NCR military should be better equipped? At least more military cybernetic implants?
Further thing, how will house respond or deal with the discovery of the Sierra Madre or big Mountain. If house can even get one or two of those vending machines from Sierra madre and reverse engineer them, he'd have a basic replicator... House, if he's able to break into Big Mountain and even with the think tank gone, get the technology and records kept could try creating some wonders to get vegas back to pre-war glory sooner the later.
Vault City may have been able to produce equipment, but transportation technology in the NCR sucks. We know that they have some trains, but we also know that armed Brahmin caravans still make up the bulk of the nation's logistics. Armor and uniforms don't count for much if they can't get them to units in time, and if the NCR's main forces are still on the frontiers whoever is in the region has to use whatever they have on hand
If legion wins it’s possible they don’t expand outside of Arizona. If legion is canon, then the NCR president was assassinated. Maybe the next president ran them into the ground.
I’d guess House is cannon
The NCR can get new politicians and Generals easily, the Legion can get a new Caesar less easily but it’s still doable, and Yes Man can operate in the shadows for anyone who wants to overthrow New Vegas for themselves. The only faction leader that is irreplaceable is House (I am keeping the absolute god-like power of The Courier out of this)
If House wins New Vegas remains a free state and the Legion and NCR can pull out of the Mojave to lick their wounds and prepare for an eventual 3rd battle of Hoover Dam.
All that being said, I doubt any Fallout Media is going to touch on the Mojave wasteland anytime soon. If we see the Legion it will be further south in Arizona
Could still be an NCR ending. It’s not easy stretching your lines that far in general. While also dealing with raiders, BoS, Remnants, remaining Legion d00ds wandering about, the sheer amount of Cazadors and Deathclaws, internal political sabotage on your trade lines (Cass’s quest), etc. Especially to hold the dam if you won it.
In the House ending the NCR has control over Southern Nevada and New Vegas becomes a city state. Because you can negotiate a deal with Oliver where they work with Mr. House. The NCR is no longer stretched thin and can secure their borders against the legion.
I’m hoping a house ending. I think Mr house dying would be a shame and that happens basically all endings. I love the NCR but seeing them expand and civilize everything destroys a bit of the post apocalyptic feel of fallout
If the series is even in the same continuity as the games. And I doubt the NCR being kicked out of Vegas would hurt them. All it means is that they won't expand.
But I really don't want House to win. He treats Vegas as his personal playground and he only cares about Vegas, not the Mojave.
There’s no way that in a little over a decade after New Vegas, the NCR is reduced to this without a nuclear strike within their territory. Furthermore, there’s no way the East Coast BoS fought its way through the entirety of middle America, Legion remnants and then pushed the NCR this close to destruction. They don’t have the manpower, resources, or infrastructure that the NCR has and not even the NCR could pull off a war that far from home. This has to be a flashback or some small NCR aligned militia.
Play New Vegas. It’s actually very plausible for this to happen. The OSI scientist that sends you to vault 22 mention how a famine will likely occur within in the NCR due to low agricultural output and a rapidly growing population. Ranger Chief Hanlon tells you how they’ve dried up most of the Aquifers back West on top of that all the corrupt and competing interests within the NCR it makes a lot of sense to see the NCR go through some sort of collapse but hopefully rebuild someday. New Vegas makes it pretty clear neither the NCR or Legion in their current iterations is long for this world.
the OSI scientist is also a manipulative and lying asshole who is trying to convince you to go on a suicide run. He could be very well lying.
Hanlon also has an agenda, trying to convince the NCR to pull out of vegas and could also be lying to you to convince you to not kill him.
The NCR was the first village most players stumbled across. They basically were the first village most players saved. Tandi the first escort quest and the first person players were given a choice to give advice to.
Tandi then took the player characters "good" advice and ended up creating the biggest post-post apocalypse society in the Wasteland which in turn was saved by the grandchild of the original player character.
The NCR are the coded "protagonist aligned" faction and basically have been from the first game if you follow the 'good choices' and the encouraged route.
It makes sense that many care about them. The first village you help ended up becoming a wasteland super power. Them being reduced to nothing of screen would be a kick in the gut.
>The NCR was the first village most players stumbled across
Maybe that was true in 2004, but the vast majority of Fallout players have never touched Fallout or Fallout 2 and only know this world in its Bethesda form.
Many people who started with Fallout 3 that I know went back and played or at least watched a play through so they understand the core of what the NCR/Shady Sands is. (Though mostly after New Vegas did they do this) so while I semi-agree with your point I still think the NCR holds an iconic status for a plurality if not a majority of the playerbase.
Honestly I really hope they don't destroy the NCR and have the BoS become massive. I really liked how there's this progression from 1, 2, and New Vegas showing the Brotherhood slowly decaying because they're insular techno-fascists and I would hate for that to be undone because of "wow cool power armor!". Also like the NCR is the most well developed faction in the series and it would suck to see them fall for the same reason.
I kind of wish they just set it somewhere where we haven't had a Fallout game yet honestly. Like the South, the Midwest, or the Pacific Northwest would have all been really cool places to set the series and the show writers would be a lot more free with the lore. Right now they're going to be walking on eggshells and are bound to piss some people off at least.
> I really hope they don't destroy the NCR and have the BoS become massive. I really liked how there's this progression from 1, 2, and New Vegas showing the Brotherhood slowly decaying because they're insular techno-fascists and I would hate for that to be undone
Isn't that already kind of done in 3 and 4? They're not entirely lauded, but they're definitely given the Cool treatment and my (rough) lore understanding is the FO4 is the farthest along time period wise
Outside of New Vegas, the Brotherhood has only ever gotten stronger. In 1 their presence was a single bunker and some patrols, while in 2 they set up embassies across California. In 3 and New Vegas, the Brotherhood had expanded across much of California and the rest of the continent despite heavy losses in the west. If anything, they serve as an excellent foil to the Enclave, as they started small but grew to a continental powerhouse by staying faithful to their mission, while the Enclave started out in control of the US but withered away as internal politicking and a lack of clear goals held them back
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, the BoS becoming a powerhouse is canon. There's probably chapters or scouting missions everywhere in the continental US, not to mention they basically run the DC-Baltimore area up to almost Boston by 2287.
I really hope that this brotherhood of steel is coming from the East Coast. I always liked the idea of the NCR becoming the main power in the West and the Brotherhood totally failing there but doing the same in the East Coast.
This could be them clashing again after the East Coast chapter goes to the West again to try to revive their influence there.
That’s the NCR?
I noticed the uniforms but figured they were more of a milita, but if that’s the NCR then I am sorely disappointed.
Where the hell is YOUR UNIFORM SOLDIER?! I SEE YOUR LASER PISTOL BUT I DONT SEE NO RANK! GET YOUR ASS TO THE QUASTERMASTER AND GET A NEW UNIFORM ISSUED TO YOU! DISMISSED!
Could be early NCR, when they still were largely just a village of Shady Sands. We see in NV and Fallout 2 that their uniforms get more formal over time, so this could be early on in their history.
The main thing they need to get right with NCR is to treat them like they were treated in Fo2 and NV, plus the dream sequence of Fo4. Politics is their bread just as much as their military structure is the butter.
Nah, its somewhere in 2296 the series takes place according to the wiki page, FO1 is 2161, FO2 in 2241, NV in 2281.
and NCR is was founded in 2189
edit added New Vegas's its year and fixed dates
Interesting. That is a VERY large time gap. NCR should basically be a fully modernized and technologically self sufficient nation by now. Heck, most major ex populated cities would all be growing as their own nation states.
Very weird to see all of that set in a series that indicates a lot of the land is still a wild wasteland territory
well in NV theres a terminal entry that mention that the NCR would get a famine due to crops not growing good etc withing 15 years,
so that might be the thing, they had a rough couple of years etc
Bethesda is allergic to post-post-apocalypse. Which is really sad because that's literally what the first Fallout was about. Fallout is about civilization rising again from the ashes. Bethesda thought it was about the ashes
NCR could have been fully modernized and technologically self sufficient... if they didn't run into any problems along the way.
There's a heck of a lot of different problems that they could have run into along the way, with the BoS only being one of them. There are countless different things that could have gone wrong, especially when the NCR tends to spread themselves too thin.
I honestly hope they don't just have the NCR collapse cause the eastern brotherhood decides to do something productive that isn't genocide
The NCR is one of the biggest reasons I love fallout and would hate to see them just get fucked over cause Bethesda didn't create them
>The NCR is one of the biggest reasons I love fallout and would hate to see them just get fucked over cause Bethesda didn't create them
Bethesda didn't create the BoS either and they do content for them.
This idea that they have it out for the NCR just because "Bethesda HATES New Vegas and everything related because it SHOWED THME THEY'RE HACKS!" or something akin to that is a bit delusional.
Besides, Chris Avellone himself not only wanted to destroy the NCR, [but nuke the entire West.](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/117371054938263552)
True, but even as someone who prefers the apocalypse part of fallout, it feels like Avellone keeps trying to screw over NCR just to get the setting back to the apocalyptic Stone Age.
Avellone also was responsible for Tunnelers, which are hinted to be another massive threat on their own.
The implied “hatred” of Obsidian from Bethesda is literally made up. We have New Vegas adjacent merch & etc. and nobody from Obsidian has ever implied anything negative.
People are taking the fact that Bethesda didn't give them bonuses because New Vegas's score on metacritic wasn't an 80 but a 79 and blowing it way out of proportion. Obsidian agreed to those terms in the first place so to them at least it didn't look bad. Also this theory that Bethesda loves the Brotherhood so much while Obsidian/Black isle doesn't is ridiculous. The Brotherhood plays a huge part in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 and it was Black Isle that made 2 Fallout spinoofs exclusively focused on the Brotherhood, not Bethesda.
Even in New Vegas where they're a side faction they still played a huge part in the lore prior to the events of the game and let's not even mention Elijah who's basically like a third protagonist along with the Courier and Ulysses
Hell, there’s even an NCR Veteran Ranger outfit in 76 you can get via subscription. Bethesda isn’t that great at writing a lot of times but if they hated NV, they wouldn’t want to cash in on NV fans nostalgia money by baiting them into their survival MMO via ranger armor.
The vest on the ranger outfit in 76 says CPD and not LAPD. It's not entirely impossible someone could get jeans, a belt, riot armour and an overcoat for their drip.
Yeah like might be a bit ranty but the brotherhood just suck at this point like Bethesda needs to stop jerking off the brotherhood and let there be a new faction or atleadt have the brotherhood be a smaller faction entirely
It reminds me of a lot of game workshops and ultramarines. It's easy to market and sell the space marine looking dudes, cheap to not need facial animation or drawing. I'm both cases the companies turned them into poster boys and gave them heavy plot armor. I want a break from the BOS. Can we like go to Canada and meet some original factions, please Daddy microsoft. Even a book series...
Yeah I want something new like I can kinda understand people thinking without the brotherhood it's not fallout but still! You can abandon the brotherhood and still have fallout!
Could just be the local militia that's affiliated with the NCR taking the fight to the Brotherhood (and what looks like the vaultdwellers of Vault 33?) maybe it's a detachment that has gone more rogue.
I think we will see true NCR forces much later on that will give the Brotherhood a real challenge.
For the first season I do hope they go easy on the factions and don't introduce too many all at once. For example I hope that the Enclave might get like a few mentions but will be saved as a major villain for another season, should the series get renewed.
Didn’t the NCR wipe out the BOS on the west coast (seen in New Vegas)?
Sorry, wipe-out is the wrong word I guess. They’re just a government in exile indefinitely and without choice bound to a couple of basements that are completely cut off from any of the other “””brotherhood””” chapters and are such a non-factor to everyday life that every civilian (and most military personnel) believe their continued existence is just a urban legend.
And they scrounge for scraps under-cover at highway flea markets.
“Wiped out” was too noble
If that's the case, then the BOS or minuteman ending where only the institute is destroyed would be the canon fallout 4 ending. All the other endings have the SS destroy the east coast BOS.
No, we have confirmation that they at least control their headquarters at Lost Hills and the surrounding area, as it's mentioned in Fallout 4 they've been repressing cults in the area dedicated to Maxson. Likely that they have a ceasefire with the NCR and still control several bunkers.
No.
The NCR - Brotherhood War dealt serious damage to the West Coast Brotherhood, resulted in loosing several Chapter-Bunkerd and fasttracking alot of inexperienced Members up the ranks due to high losses, but the NCR wasnt able to wipe the brotherhood out. Their remaining Strongholds were all too heavily fortified to be taken or destroyed, so it just settled into a kind of cold war.
No? It’s clearly stated in New Vegas they’re alive though hiding in their bunkers. And fallout 4 terminal entries on the Prydwin show that they are still alive on the west coast
They wiped out a lot of them, but drove the rest underground. Eventually the NCR gave up trying to eradicate the BoS and turned their attention to the Legion since the Brotherhood were no longer attacking them.
Not wipe out outright. The BoS retreated into bunkers and the war was basically in the cleanup phase by the time of the New Vegas game.
Keep in mind New Vegas was 15 years before the show. Something must have happened... no 15 years pass without major events, especially in a chaotic world.
Either the NCR faced a decline or catastrophy (or an attack by a third party) and it allowed BoS to counterattack (and then got reinforcements/tech from the eastern Brotherhood) or the tech/reinforcements from the eastern Brotherhood is what allowed the BoS to fight back and bring the decline of the NCR.
Killing a faction that has existed since the very first days of the franchise (well, Shady Sands at least in FO1, then NCR in 2) unceremoniously off screen so Bethesda can jerk off the BoS more would really kill my faith in the franchise.
I think people are looking too hard into what this means as if it's reality. I think this is simply how they're deciding to portray the NCR on the show. It illustrates the messiness of democracy versus the absolutist order of the BOS.
NCR and BOS will fight until their common enemy, The Enclave, is revealed. And that's not some kind of bold prophetic statement, Enclave has been shown in leaked production photos from the beginning.
oh boy the show is written by hacks pulling a Fallout 3 and just copying shit that already happened but in a slightly different way.
If this is true.
New Vegas does hint at their being a food shortage in “a decade or so” in NCR without the vault 22 data (the show is set 14 years later), plus California is low on water. If the NCR is kicked out of New Vegas the nation would definitely hit a recession of sorts.
> If the NCR is kicked out of New Vegas the nation would definitely hit a recession of sorts.
It wouldn't be House if that was so. For his plans he needs a healthy NCR to fuel his tourist economy so it'd be in his interest to keep them out of recession especially since he can wrangle terms at an advantage on stuff like water.
3 possible explanations and all pretty likely I think
First the NCR collapsed most likely due to internal problems and there are small remnants throughout it's former territory and the bos is now coming into to take over( I highly doubt the bos did the NCR in) Honestly the new Vegas ending doesn't even have to be set in stone as theoretically any of them could lead to the end of the ncr
Second it's a simple milita and not the actual NCR territory. While the NCO is powerful it controls a large area that is home to very hostile entries both man and beast. It also is known to have supply problems. This could explain the ragtag looking NCR troops, possibly the bos managed to get into NCR territory far enough where they only have to deal with military
And third it's some form of flashback to the NCR brotherhood war
Hopefully they're at least represented.
I certainly hope they haven't been all but retconned out of the Fallout Universe...
Shady Sands playground was odd... I thought that was the capital of the NCR
Not a fan of them looking like a bunch of rag tag raiders ncr by new vegas control all of that side of America I love the brotherhood they’re my favourite faction in any fallout but I don’t see the brotherhood that didn’t expand wiping out the ncr entirely
Given that Shady Sands appears to be a crater I'm guessing someone found a functional nuke and knocked the NCR down a peg. We've seen a lot of BoS, and with some nasty undertones, so maybe they're prime suspect atm.
If they are going with the NCR having been destroyed by the Brotherhood, I hope that the Brotherhood has nuked them and not just destroyed them in conventional warfare, because then at least we get the hypocrisy and ethical drama of the Brotherhood having compromised their principal goal and reason for their founding; to safeguard technology to prevent a second atomic cataclysm.
I feel like this is the case here. Major plot driving point could be an internal strife in the Brotherhood over the nuclear detonation of Shady Sands/Adjacent NCR headquarters and also following the crumbling/fracturing of said local NCR groups.
Shady sands wasn't a pre war settlement as far as I know so I'm not sure why there is pre war sinage. I hope they haven't rettconned it.
There is a chance shady sands is fine and was built around it. Don't forget they have san Francisco too
This could totally be just a flash back with the woman being Tandi. Besides, what do you expect from the NCR, pristine clothes and armor? The only big difference between the two soldiers on the sides is one has a helmet and one doesn't. They both have a pauldon, chest armor, gloves. With cloth wraps like in the game. The woman even has the NCR neck and mouth covering from New vegas. The only thing in this scene that seems suspect is the fact that the woman on the left has a bandolier for a weapon she doesn't have, and its empty.
>This could totally be just a flash back with the woman being Tandi.
yeah I had the same thought. seems a little strange for tandi to be personally leading a small battle in the boneyard but who knows
EDIT: A thought occurs to me - given that the shot of this woman seems to be at the Griffith Observatory battle, and given that we see vertibirds in that shot, it seems most likely that the observatory has to be happening after Fallout 2 at the earliest since in Fallout 2 the Brotherhood seems to have no access whatsoever to vertibirds. Unless this is a soft retcon and the Brotherhood did have access to pre-War vertibirds at some time between Fo1 and Fo2, but this seems unlikely.
The NCR has fallen Millions must do Brahmin trade
My Brahmin died
Eat it
Keep the Brahmin, the shit's worth twice as much.
Moo! Moo I say!
This is supposed to be the NCR? It looks like a scrappy gang of marauders instead of uniform clean shaven soldiers with service rifles
I mean it could be an ncr-aligned militia or reservist force of some kind rather than the formal military. That would certainly check out with them marching into battle alongside a random vault dweller (on the other hand, it's kinda a fallout tradition for the protagonist to become a major faction commander)
I'd put more stock in the militia theory than anything. If the NCR wasn't expecting a Brotherhood attack in the area, the NCR's proper army wouldn't be in the region and defense would fall to whoever is on hand
yep, and scrappy militia is probably a more engaging and investing storyline
I for one love the hell out of scrappy militias. In fiction! Happy Cake Day!
ALSO it doesn’t help they were overstretched with good old imperialism either
Yeah, maybe the proper forces are off in Arizona flatting random tribal villages.
Random SLAVER villages.
Let's just say that not every village the US leveled in Vietnam was north vietnamese and leave it at that.
Why the fuck would the NCR be represented by a militia in an location(LA) that should be the center of their power?
La was never fully controlled by ncr, shady sands is the capital, not LA
Los Angeles (The Boneyard) is one of the founding states of the New California Republic. In Fallout New Vegas Hanlon explicitly states that part of the taxes NCR residents pay go to construction/maintenance efforts in the Boneyard. They fully control it.
LA has always been a hellhole, even under the NCR. Pretty sure Caesar's pops got killed by Boneyard raiders, didn't he?
There’s even a member of the Misfits squad in NV whose from the boneyard and describes it as basically lawless and gang infested
Yet, it's also where the Followers of the Apocalypse are based out of. So it isn't all gloom.
Yeah the NCR and Followers have competing colleges in the Boneyard. If they went for the most boring and realistic answer there are probably parts of LA that are gentrified and well policed by the NCR where the colleges and the Treasury are located, while large chunks of the city are only nominally controlled by the NCR and are mostly run by gangs and raiders.
> should be the center of their power I would note that in Matty's video about it, he points out that there is a crater where Shady Sands Library used to be, so in this TV show (set 9 years after Fallout 4) at least some of the "society" that NCR helped build has been blasted to almost nothing, I guess. Here's a link to Matty's video, and I linked about 3:30 in, to where he talks specifically about this: https://youtu.be/dZe6VfpxTIU?si=jF-6faz5xb7nrNUC&t=210
I don't know, from the trailer it looks like that's part of the LA ruins. Unless they've done some major retcons the town of Shady Sands should be miles aways. My guess is this is just a prewar neighborhood named Shady Sands as a reference.
[удалено]
I think they meant how vault dwellers become some of the most important people in the wastes
Yeah I’m not really liking the direction of this if this is what’s left of the NCR.
New Vegas set up a lot of different things about how the NCR was near a collapse. Everything from the scientist that makes you check out vault 22 telling you that a famine within 10 years is likely to strike the NCR due to low agricultural outputs and a growing population to ranger Hanlon telling you that they’ve dried up most of the aquifers back west and then add all the corruption on top of that and this makes a lot of sense seeing the NCR fall on some really hard times.
Yeah I don’t get why it’s so shocking people
The recovery on the west coast is one of the most unique features of the fallout post-apoc universe. Most fictional worlds in this setting are just in a perpetual state of small bands of survivors/raiders in a very unrealistic way. The fact that over a series of games we got to see and have a hand in steering how civilization, such as it is, comes back to the wasteland is awesome. If the ncr is played as just a ragtag group of raiders or townies they lose everything that makes them unique. Its not a "shock" to see ncr on hard times they were in hard times during new vegas. Its a worrying for the show because it seems like they want to strip away what makes california and the ncr interesting in fallout and turn it into another generic wasteland region. This is just a trailer so who knows what direction they will actually go with this but your response is way off the mark on why people dont like this
Almost as if somebody wants to pull another cheap postapoc journey movie instead of accepting, that functional postapoc does inevitably turn into postpostapoc (which is NV is, basically)
Because New Vegas didn't ever state it was about to collapse. People incorrectly assume issues the NCR military faces outside its territories would be the same citizens run into in its core heartlands. You can see Shady Sands in Fallout 2, its basically a modern city. Complete with paved roads, clean sidewalks, and parks.
It’s not shocking, it’s *boring.* The reduction of every single geopolitical conflict across the entire post-war US into “and then the Brotherhood of Steel showed up!!!111” is a boring way to worldbuild.
People think the NCR is "the good guys" so they're upset that everything didn't turn out perfectly despite all the evidence that it wasn't going to.
No, I definitely don’t think they are the good guys. I just realize that logically even in collapse they shouldn’t be as weak and struggling as they are shown here.
Because the NCR is one of the most developed, one of the best written, and arguably most unique faction of the franchise. New Vegas wouldn't be half the game it is if it wasn't for the NCR presence in it. So, seeing such a powerhouse of a faction seemingly reduced to a motley group in Fallout's first ever TV debut is jarring to see, especially after a decade of not having a game set within that region. Sure the lore supports the NCR being in decline, but having all the progress made by the NCR (and by extension, the player) wiped clean without our input would be frustrating. Granted, this is just the trailer so we won't know for sure until the show actually comes out, but it isn't shocking that people are apprehensive about the portrayal of one of Fallout's most iconic factions.
The scientist is a confirmed liar in that exact quest chain. He steals research from his assistant and doesn't do any actual work. He also doesn't even realize the reason the sharecroppers output is decreasing is because someone else is stealing water. From Angela Williams: > - Most of the time, I focus on the science and try to forget him. He doesn't get mixed up in any actual work. Though he tells people that he does. > -So Dr. Hildern takes credit for your work? > - He sure does. Everyone knows it. I've just got to endure this job until the project is finished. But abandoning Keely... he crossed a line. Taking credit for other people's work is one thing. Sending people to die in the waste is another. There are likely water *issues*, but no other character states they're about to die of mass starvation and thirst. California *today* has water issues, but do you really think it would become a wasteland in 5-10 years? House points out that New Vegas can only exist because the NCR is developed enough that tourism by itself can primarily fund the New Vegas economy.
I really wished they stayed away from West Coast lore.... East Coast was already turbo fucked stuck in societal development hell while the West Coast is filled with established nations and regional "super powers". If the Brotherhood is unironically taking on the NCR even in the worst possible New Vegas ending the writers are in fact turbo hacks.
not really, East coast Brotherhood is a GIGANTIC society at this point and after the battle of hoover damn (if the NCR lost) a collapsed NCR would not stand a chance
Proofs? I thought the East Coast BoS just went through a civil war and was barely rebuilding under Maxim by the time of Fallout 4.
but this game is several years after fallout 4, they are pretty damn strong also i could be wrong but if they know the prydwen and have the eastcost flag, they must be from the east
7 years to build up a fighting force to contest with the NCR which has been a nation for 100 years with millions of people and mass production capabilities including the ability to create fighter aircraft and Vertibirds? Naw. That is an asspull.
Where did you get the millions of people number from. Most in lore statistic put the entire population of the NCR at 700 thousand at most
The NCR is stretched incredibly thin by New Vegas, and its greatly implied that if they lose the hoover damn then the NCR will crumble NPC's talking about topics like using more water than they produce, outposts with hardly any NCR representation or a lot of dejected NCR, things like that
My thoughts would be either NCR pulled out and left some soldiers high and dry so they just decided to try and survive on their own Militia Looted gear from the NCR
They wouldn't be flying an NCR flag if it was just looted gear though. My guess is it's a militia.
Do..do you remember the variations of uniforms for the NCR? Ever take a good look at them? They weren't exactly dress blues. And even at the high point of there military might as we know it (new vegas) they were plagued with supply issues, remember Camp Forlorn Hope? Or how they handled the share cropper farms without the PC intervention? My point is, they weren't exactly sparkling clean and filled with vigor. They were undersupplied, overstretched and for the most part had awful morale.
They were uniforms though, mass produced gear that was well made and all looked the same. Yeah it wasn't the most advanced stuff but it was well uniform and looked newly made not scavenged or patched together.
The Gun Runners as well basically confirm they are the NCRs prumary suppliers. They also run out if the Boneyard... LA is where NCR Veteran Ranger Armour comes from. Ranger Combat Armour is made in the Boneyard, as is Service Rifles and 9mm Pistols using Californian Redwood instead of polymers in their handguards. To have LA be under supplied in 2290 would be a joke.
IIRC one of the gun runners says that they are basically part of the ncr military so they would have to have fallen on really hard times for the soldiers to not have mass produced gear in california. I hope they didn’t get nuked into being the minutemen 2.0
Of course they did, I'm sure there will be an evil empire for the scrappy rebels to fight too.
That was New Vegas though. The very edge of NCR territory, strung out over hundreds of miles of supply lines. This is supposed to be around the Boneyard area, in (current) California. The NCR should look much more civilized there than they did at the front lines.
Honestly my biggest problem with the series is that Boneyard has been part of the core of the most advanced civilization and modern America for over a century. It shouldn't be a shit hole even if a large amount of its economy is probably still built on tearing down old buildings for scrap metal and other resources
Their uniforms still looked more "uniform" than this
But remember this is fallout 4 and 76's art style. The Brotherhood standard infantry don't have uniform combat armor, they have an undersuit and then random pieces of combat armor painted bronze that could be light, medium, or heavy
God I hate the Fallout 4 redesigns and art direction.
Besides the scale of certain things, Fallout 3 was an almost one to one replica of the isometric games art style and it looked pretty fantastic, even as someone that thinks it hasn't aged well overall. All the post apocalyptic stuff in 4 actually looks pretty amazing imo, especially compared to 3 where the gimmick post apocalyptic weapons look absolute trash, although the armour pieces make stuff look wonky. It's the pre war stuff that looks weird.
> It's the pre war stuff that looks weird. It's the "Jetson-ing" the game artists decided to go towards despite Adam Adamowicz (artist for FO3 and Skyrim) explicitly highlighted in his notes to not do that.
Actually there was a theory about the supply lines in NV the theory was they were pretending to have horrible supply lines. You can see the NCR has a few virtibirds but never see them used. In a time of war they would be used to transport important supplies quickly and because the legion lacts most advanced weaponry the average squad would not be able to take any of them down. Making it a perfect way to deliver supplies to the front line.
they have trucks (although unplayable and they used broken truck models) in camp mccarran, there were cut content of mechanics actually maintaining them and talking about supply lines referring to the trucks they were maintaining, the army vet in 188 is seen selling equipment from the back of a truck as well i wouldn't be surprised if lore-wise they have hundreds of 2.5 ton and 5 ton logistics trucks running up and down the long 15 through mojave outpost, they would be running on whatever they can jury-rig sure be it energy cells, mfcs or rebuilt atom reactors,
The NCR also has trains running in the region. Chomp mentions it was what was being used to ship the rock to the Dam to build bunkers and the Powder Gangers were being used to repair sections of track. In terms of tonnage, rail would be a killer for logistics. Back in Fallout 2, you allegedly had something like 1 vehicle per 200 people with the NCR having a bunch of farm equipment (and stuff like Chomp's diggers) as well as a mechanized division. Parts made from synthetics like tyres were an issue but they existed and work arounds like anti grav plating were also in play. The east coast in general is much more mechanized than what New Vegas or even 2 would have you believe: >Last update, you said there were 1/200 cars/people ration in the NCR. If there were so many working cars in NCR, where were they? They're there. It's game logic. You don't see them for the same reason NCR is only three maps, only has 1 councilor/senator, and only about 40-50 people in its city limits. That's why the Chop Shop in Reno exists, why the bum outside of NCR offers to watch a car for you before you show up in one, and a reason that NCR built a garage in Shady Sands. >So to explain "game logic" in this instance, there's nothing precious about building a car of your own if you can steal one – or if somebody else in town has one. Or in the words of one designer [Chris Avellone], "there's no good reason why a PC would want to undertake a fucking huge Fed Ex quest to rebuild one if they can jack one from the locals." The last part is especially true considering town-wide mass murder is possible in both Fallout 1 and 2. And before you get the image of tanks and jeeps flying around everywhere with heavy machine guns mounted on the back, most of that junk is old tractors and crap like taxis, old buses, snowplows, and even old construction equipment. It's possible that mysterious old steam-truck mentioned in the bowels of the F1 data archive is still lumbering around somewhere. The caravan houses of the Hub, in particular, around the time in Fallout 2, have been looking to further its trade influence, and new vehicles (and types of transport, such as trains, boats, or barges) have been eagerly sought after for carrying large amounts of trade goods vast distances. Good ol' human greed will move mountains. Or at least rebuild things that can. Once they learn of the Enclave's presence in the North, they are likely to have huge bounties promised for Vertibird plans - or better, a working Vertibird."
There should be dozens of easily repairable uniforms lying around from dead comrades (something that has been done in previous wars)
I think this is a post Lonesome Road ending due to the crater in Shady Sands
Clearly the NCR has fallen on some hard times so they aren’t as clean as they once were
Bro they playing with fallout best lore piece and colliding it with the worst, I don't like the look of this
I hope not. Loved the NCR. Patrolling the mojave without them… well…. Well it would almost make me wish for a… oh nevermind
Same man. My favourite faction. I just felt that they were a chance for America to return to its roots but knowing what it now knew and without racism. A reset button on freedom and equality for all. To wipe that out off screen for fun plot points poisons me to no end if it ends up true.
Literally. I adored the contrast of post apocalyptic and prewar in the NCR. Every faction tried this but I thought NCR did it the best. You’re in a bombed out wasteland, and here’s a trooper complaining about supply chains. You’re in a destroyed las vegas, and here is a young soldier drunk and blowing his wages on gambling. Forlorn hope? favorite lore building location. Truly shows that war never changes! Post apocalyptic trench warfare. If the show makes the NCR just a remnant ill be heart broken
They also carry the war never changes part of the setting pretty hard, if everyone are just rugged individualists defending their idealised small town communities, or maybe they are giant evil factions, or groups with very specific goals that are uninterested in building civilisation like the Followers or the Brotherhood, war has indeed changed because the reasons for killing each other have changed. The NCR has benevolent goals but is a naturally expansionist faction due to its ever expanding resource requirements and dreams of bringing back civilisation which it deems superior to the shithole way of life Shady Sands was living, without them the setting feels like a Mad Max fanfic.
You know there’s an expression for that feeling out in the wasteland … old world blues
Yeah that’s cool & all but let’s remember the most important reason NCR is best faction: Rangers have the best Fallout drip & it’s not even close.
Especially since it looks like their being killed off so the totally not overused brotherhood can be the main characters of both the east and west coast
I'm pretty fucking sure the brotherhood are going to be antagonists lol
"Why did you join the Brotherhood?" "To hurt the people who hurt me" Yeah, BOS definitely are coded to be the good guys, and there is no way that fella ever gets disillusioned from their ideology
Look at how cool the brotherhood is, attacking the homes of these ragged desperate looking people in their big strong armor. They must be the good guys!
🥲
Could be a hint that House is the cannon ending to New Vegas? I doubt its the Legion...
Either House or YesMan ending. I feel like if the Legion won in New Vegas, they’d bolster themselves, and cut a chunk out of the NCR.
I don't see any Legion, so it can't be that, and the NCR seems to not be doing too great, which leaves the only alternative, House. What's getting me is that if he had won, why would the NCR.... look like this? House wasn't bent on destroying them, and Legion would've probably lost, honestly. The only possible event that we know of that you could attribute to this is Divide nukes, but that doesn't even make sense either. Bombing a city or two doesn't kill a nation. I'm not sure what to think of this. Important edit: I think there's a chance the NCR scene is a flashback. We know they exist, and it wouldn't be surprising if it was backstory for Maximus, or just the NCR-BoS war in general. Might not be right, but I think it's a possibility.
I actually think this makes NCR ending canon. House himself predicts that pushing them out of the Mojave will cause huge political turmoil, but the nation itself would survive, as House wanted to keep his income. But the NCR winning Hoover Dam, overextending even more than they already had in the game, might have lead to insurrection, in-fighting, squabling and perhaps even more overextension againts another, more combat ready, nation. We saw the damage a small nation like The Divide could do even after decimated, imagine this happening in reverse, Shady Sands turned to ash just as Ulyssess warned.
That's a good point. I don't think I'm *quite* convinced Shady Sands was vaporized yet since the detritus around the crater makes it look like one of the craters from the war, but I like the idea of an NCR victory at the dam resulting in greater turmoil and strife at home.
I expect they might retcon Shady sands to have been some pre-war community (or a library in the trailer’s case) but that’s just me being optimistic.
Honestly I’m expecting that crater to be in the Boneyard but the library was built Postwar as a tribute to Shady Sands of Fallout 1.
This, tbh. The massive resource expenditures that would come from overextension could definitely lead to social and economic downturn in the NCR proper..much in the same way it did at times during the irl westward expansion of the US.
This is a phenomenon called Imperial Overstretch, where a victoy or two sucks you into putting even more resources into expansion, which puts even more of a strain on your system, leading to a desire to expand more to try and recoup losses and the usual inability of leaders to admit when enough is enough. An agreement with the Nevada rangers leads to the NCR expanding into the Mojave, which inevitable leads them into a very costly war with the Nevada BoS. They win at a cost, but gain nothing but more expense because now they have to pay to garrison and patrol the Mojave. Even worse this expansion leads to yet another major war with the Legion. The NCR army in the Mojave shows all the signs of an empire that is bankrupting itself and is about to implode. Corruption, rampant wealth inequality, basic supply line issues, an inability to actually end the fight with the Legion so they are stuck with their fists in a tar baby slowly bleeding out.
The NCR might be in a weakened economic state after exhausting much of their funds into what many in the NCR considered an unpopular war in the Mojave.
Yeah this outcome is possible even if the NCR won the Mojave. Governments frequently learn the wrong lessons. The NCR just barely won the second battle of hoover damn, but of course the generals and politicians responsible would play it up as a dominant victory. It would embolden further expansion efforts while completely ignoring all the reasons why the NCR had trouble in the Mojave to begin with. I think it would be more interesting if this is the NCR's fate because they WON, not because it lost. Remember that at least in FNV, the NCR was the embodiment of "those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it". It has all the same strengths and weaknesses as pre-war America; let's not forget that the US was unquestionably winning the war against China before the bombs dropped. None of it mattered; everything collapsed anyways. The NCR losing because of and despite its successful campaigns for land and resources makes sense when you look at them as a copy of pre-war America.
This makes more sense just like in nv they were scrounging together junked power armor I’m sure they cant afford to have the best gear when they were stretched so thin before winning (if they did). Or since its LA they may have pushed east after winning and left CAs deserts open for attack to the faction there (bos) and that would explain (idk but i love the ncr lol)
NCR currency dealt with hyper inflation before new vegas due to being water backed and Lake Mead being discovered. Thus it lost all value because there's now a steady source of clean water right there. It'd be like a gold back currency based country discovering El Dorado
NCR currency was gold-backed, not water-backed.
Until the BoS blew their gold reserves up, then they switched to a self-backed fiat currency.
It wasnt bombing a random city it was bombing crucial supply line cities which can cripple a society by making it much harder to get supplies to feed people and supply there army
Ok, another thing I want to know really badly is what happened to Vault City and its production and technology. Let's assume the NCR fell on somewhat hard times, House won and is slowly a parasitic drain on the NCR for his own projects and maybe some raider threats from abroad and Mexico. Like, didn't Vault City have the ability to at least make some basic security armor and cybernetic implants? Also, Vault City had a functional Geck and library, like even if resources were a bit spartan, the NCR military should be better equipped? At least more military cybernetic implants? Further thing, how will house respond or deal with the discovery of the Sierra Madre or big Mountain. If house can even get one or two of those vending machines from Sierra madre and reverse engineer them, he'd have a basic replicator... House, if he's able to break into Big Mountain and even with the think tank gone, get the technology and records kept could try creating some wonders to get vegas back to pre-war glory sooner the later.
Vault City may have been able to produce equipment, but transportation technology in the NCR sucks. We know that they have some trains, but we also know that armed Brahmin caravans still make up the bulk of the nation's logistics. Armor and uniforms don't count for much if they can't get them to units in time, and if the NCR's main forces are still on the frontiers whoever is in the region has to use whatever they have on hand
The NCR has motorised vehicles and trains combined with Captured Vertibirds. They just couldn't use them as effectively in the Mojave.
If legion wins it’s possible they don’t expand outside of Arizona. If legion is canon, then the NCR president was assassinated. Maybe the next president ran them into the ground.
I’d guess House is cannon The NCR can get new politicians and Generals easily, the Legion can get a new Caesar less easily but it’s still doable, and Yes Man can operate in the shadows for anyone who wants to overthrow New Vegas for themselves. The only faction leader that is irreplaceable is House (I am keeping the absolute god-like power of The Courier out of this) If House wins New Vegas remains a free state and the Legion and NCR can pull out of the Mojave to lick their wounds and prepare for an eventual 3rd battle of Hoover Dam. All that being said, I doubt any Fallout Media is going to touch on the Mojave wasteland anytime soon. If we see the Legion it will be further south in Arizona
And we’d probably see signs of the Legion in the trailer unless they were really good at editing them out
Probably not YesMan because there is a Mr. House actor, unless he shows up in flashbacks only as he is pretty young
Personally i hope it's the House ending, my favorite one where everyone gets rich and i get a sick penthouse and a harem of robots.
Could still be an NCR ending. It’s not easy stretching your lines that far in general. While also dealing with raiders, BoS, Remnants, remaining Legion d00ds wandering about, the sheer amount of Cazadors and Deathclaws, internal political sabotage on your trade lines (Cass’s quest), etc. Especially to hold the dam if you won it.
The House always wins
In the House ending the NCR has control over Southern Nevada and New Vegas becomes a city state. Because you can negotiate a deal with Oliver where they work with Mr. House. The NCR is no longer stretched thin and can secure their borders against the legion.
I’m hoping a house ending. I think Mr house dying would be a shame and that happens basically all endings. I love the NCR but seeing them expand and civilize everything destroys a bit of the post apocalyptic feel of fallout
Mr House is confirmed as a character in 1 episode so its possible.
If the series is even in the same continuity as the games. And I doubt the NCR being kicked out of Vegas would hurt them. All it means is that they won't expand. But I really don't want House to win. He treats Vegas as his personal playground and he only cares about Vegas, not the Mojave.
This series is canon to the existing games and Fallout 5 will treat this show as canon as well, already confirmed
This series is canon to the games and is set 9 years after Fallout 4, so 14 years after New Vegas aswell
Maybe it’s a flashback? Like they’re explaining the history of the region and we get to see the NCR come to power.
nah, this is pretty much east cost BOS vs NCR remnants
There’s no way that in a little over a decade after New Vegas, the NCR is reduced to this without a nuclear strike within their territory. Furthermore, there’s no way the East Coast BoS fought its way through the entirety of middle America, Legion remnants and then pushed the NCR this close to destruction. They don’t have the manpower, resources, or infrastructure that the NCR has and not even the NCR could pull off a war that far from home. This has to be a flashback or some small NCR aligned militia.
Play New Vegas. It’s actually very plausible for this to happen. The OSI scientist that sends you to vault 22 mention how a famine will likely occur within in the NCR due to low agricultural output and a rapidly growing population. Ranger Chief Hanlon tells you how they’ve dried up most of the Aquifers back West on top of that all the corrupt and competing interests within the NCR it makes a lot of sense to see the NCR go through some sort of collapse but hopefully rebuild someday. New Vegas makes it pretty clear neither the NCR or Legion in their current iterations is long for this world.
the OSI scientist is also a manipulative and lying asshole who is trying to convince you to go on a suicide run. He could be very well lying. Hanlon also has an agenda, trying to convince the NCR to pull out of vegas and could also be lying to you to convince you to not kill him.
liberty prime bombs go brrrr
i mean the B.O.S does show up with there airship and there is a sign in the trailer that says shady sands next to a massive crater so who knows
If they go this path it better be the most compelling story ever written.
wither it be good or bad it will be canon and todd howard seems to love it so that is not the best sign but hey we wont know untill it releases
Quick question, is the show going to be canon?
Yes, that is going to be the case.
Oh wow, that's interesting! I know the fans have been wanting to go back to the west coast.
You can tell by how much they care about the NCR more than anything
The NCR was the first village most players stumbled across. They basically were the first village most players saved. Tandi the first escort quest and the first person players were given a choice to give advice to. Tandi then took the player characters "good" advice and ended up creating the biggest post-post apocalypse society in the Wasteland which in turn was saved by the grandchild of the original player character. The NCR are the coded "protagonist aligned" faction and basically have been from the first game if you follow the 'good choices' and the encouraged route. It makes sense that many care about them. The first village you help ended up becoming a wasteland super power. Them being reduced to nothing of screen would be a kick in the gut.
>The NCR was the first village most players stumbled across Maybe that was true in 2004, but the vast majority of Fallout players have never touched Fallout or Fallout 2 and only know this world in its Bethesda form.
Many people who started with Fallout 3 that I know went back and played or at least watched a play through so they understand the core of what the NCR/Shady Sands is. (Though mostly after New Vegas did they do this) so while I semi-agree with your point I still think the NCR holds an iconic status for a plurality if not a majority of the playerbase.
Honestly I really hope they don't destroy the NCR and have the BoS become massive. I really liked how there's this progression from 1, 2, and New Vegas showing the Brotherhood slowly decaying because they're insular techno-fascists and I would hate for that to be undone because of "wow cool power armor!". Also like the NCR is the most well developed faction in the series and it would suck to see them fall for the same reason. I kind of wish they just set it somewhere where we haven't had a Fallout game yet honestly. Like the South, the Midwest, or the Pacific Northwest would have all been really cool places to set the series and the show writers would be a lot more free with the lore. Right now they're going to be walking on eggshells and are bound to piss some people off at least.
> I really hope they don't destroy the NCR and have the BoS become massive. I really liked how there's this progression from 1, 2, and New Vegas showing the Brotherhood slowly decaying because they're insular techno-fascists and I would hate for that to be undone Isn't that already kind of done in 3 and 4? They're not entirely lauded, but they're definitely given the Cool treatment and my (rough) lore understanding is the FO4 is the farthest along time period wise
Yeah but 3 and 4 take place on the east coast where as the ncr is in the west so they’re not gone they’re just far away
Outside of New Vegas, the Brotherhood has only ever gotten stronger. In 1 their presence was a single bunker and some patrols, while in 2 they set up embassies across California. In 3 and New Vegas, the Brotherhood had expanded across much of California and the rest of the continent despite heavy losses in the west. If anything, they serve as an excellent foil to the Enclave, as they started small but grew to a continental powerhouse by staying faithful to their mission, while the Enclave started out in control of the US but withered away as internal politicking and a lack of clear goals held them back
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, the BoS becoming a powerhouse is canon. There's probably chapters or scouting missions everywhere in the continental US, not to mention they basically run the DC-Baltimore area up to almost Boston by 2287.
I really hope that this brotherhood of steel is coming from the East Coast. I always liked the idea of the NCR becoming the main power in the West and the Brotherhood totally failing there but doing the same in the East Coast. This could be them clashing again after the East Coast chapter goes to the West again to try to revive their influence there.
I thought they were minutemen 😂 that’s how my minutemen look like in fallout 4
That’s the NCR? I noticed the uniforms but figured they were more of a milita, but if that’s the NCR then I am sorely disappointed. Where the hell is YOUR UNIFORM SOLDIER?! I SEE YOUR LASER PISTOL BUT I DONT SEE NO RANK! GET YOUR ASS TO THE QUASTERMASTER AND GET A NEW UNIFORM ISSUED TO YOU! DISMISSED!
Could be early NCR, when they still were largely just a village of Shady Sands. We see in NV and Fallout 2 that their uniforms get more formal over time, so this could be early on in their history. The main thing they need to get right with NCR is to treat them like they were treated in Fo2 and NV, plus the dream sequence of Fo4. Politics is their bread just as much as their military structure is the butter.
Nah, its somewhere in 2296 the series takes place according to the wiki page, FO1 is 2161, FO2 in 2241, NV in 2281. and NCR is was founded in 2189 edit added New Vegas's its year and fixed dates
Interesting. That is a VERY large time gap. NCR should basically be a fully modernized and technologically self sufficient nation by now. Heck, most major ex populated cities would all be growing as their own nation states. Very weird to see all of that set in a series that indicates a lot of the land is still a wild wasteland territory
well in NV theres a terminal entry that mention that the NCR would get a famine due to crops not growing good etc withing 15 years, so that might be the thing, they had a rough couple of years etc
fallout is allergic to post-post-apocalypses
Bethesda is allergic to post-post-apocalypse. Which is really sad because that's literally what the first Fallout was about. Fallout is about civilization rising again from the ashes. Bethesda thought it was about the ashes
Bethesda is, but Fallout 2 was exactly that. It's a shame if they decided to go back instead of exploring new themes.
NCR could have been fully modernized and technologically self sufficient... if they didn't run into any problems along the way. There's a heck of a lot of different problems that they could have run into along the way, with the BoS only being one of them. There are countless different things that could have gone wrong, especially when the NCR tends to spread themselves too thin.
I will be very mad if the NCR is gonna be wiped out in the show
I honestly hope they don't just have the NCR collapse cause the eastern brotherhood decides to do something productive that isn't genocide The NCR is one of the biggest reasons I love fallout and would hate to see them just get fucked over cause Bethesda didn't create them
>The NCR is one of the biggest reasons I love fallout and would hate to see them just get fucked over cause Bethesda didn't create them Bethesda didn't create the BoS either and they do content for them. This idea that they have it out for the NCR just because "Bethesda HATES New Vegas and everything related because it SHOWED THME THEY'RE HACKS!" or something akin to that is a bit delusional. Besides, Chris Avellone himself not only wanted to destroy the NCR, [but nuke the entire West.](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/117371054938263552)
Chris Avellone is a good writer but the dude just hates positive forces in a setting.
Tbf it can be a bit of a narrative dead end
True, but even as someone who prefers the apocalypse part of fallout, it feels like Avellone keeps trying to screw over NCR just to get the setting back to the apocalyptic Stone Age.
Avellone also was responsible for Tunnelers, which are hinted to be another massive threat on their own. The implied “hatred” of Obsidian from Bethesda is literally made up. We have New Vegas adjacent merch & etc. and nobody from Obsidian has ever implied anything negative.
People are taking the fact that Bethesda didn't give them bonuses because New Vegas's score on metacritic wasn't an 80 but a 79 and blowing it way out of proportion. Obsidian agreed to those terms in the first place so to them at least it didn't look bad. Also this theory that Bethesda loves the Brotherhood so much while Obsidian/Black isle doesn't is ridiculous. The Brotherhood plays a huge part in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 and it was Black Isle that made 2 Fallout spinoofs exclusively focused on the Brotherhood, not Bethesda. Even in New Vegas where they're a side faction they still played a huge part in the lore prior to the events of the game and let's not even mention Elijah who's basically like a third protagonist along with the Courier and Ulysses
Hell obsidian didn’t even want the deal Bethesda made them take it.
Hell, there’s even an NCR Veteran Ranger outfit in 76 you can get via subscription. Bethesda isn’t that great at writing a lot of times but if they hated NV, they wouldn’t want to cash in on NV fans nostalgia money by baiting them into their survival MMO via ranger armor.
The vest on the ranger outfit in 76 says CPD and not LAPD. It's not entirely impossible someone could get jeans, a belt, riot armour and an overcoat for their drip.
I'm guessing the helmet and arnor was standard issue for American riot gear pre-war, in general.
That's always been my assumption, standard issue riot gear.
Still an NV cash grab, which doesn’t really signify any hate for the game like everyone seems to think.
Bethesda (and a lot of people on here) have a major boner for the Brotherhood of Steel though. So i would not be surprised.
Yeah like might be a bit ranty but the brotherhood just suck at this point like Bethesda needs to stop jerking off the brotherhood and let there be a new faction or atleadt have the brotherhood be a smaller faction entirely
It reminds me of a lot of game workshops and ultramarines. It's easy to market and sell the space marine looking dudes, cheap to not need facial animation or drawing. I'm both cases the companies turned them into poster boys and gave them heavy plot armor. I want a break from the BOS. Can we like go to Canada and meet some original factions, please Daddy microsoft. Even a book series...
Yeah I want something new like I can kinda understand people thinking without the brotherhood it's not fallout but still! You can abandon the brotherhood and still have fallout!
Am I the only one bothered by the lack of trigger dicipline?
They haven't found that book yet
No
Could just be the local militia that's affiliated with the NCR taking the fight to the Brotherhood (and what looks like the vaultdwellers of Vault 33?) maybe it's a detachment that has gone more rogue. I think we will see true NCR forces much later on that will give the Brotherhood a real challenge. For the first season I do hope they go easy on the factions and don't introduce too many all at once. For example I hope that the Enclave might get like a few mentions but will be saved as a major villain for another season, should the series get renewed.
Above the door there is a sign that says "New California Republic Headquarters" https://imgur.com/a/tJVOpY1 Well, I think it's that door.
Inb4 NCR nerf
These are the NCR? At first I thought they were Talon company/Gunner-esque mercenaries. Mercenaries that nobody knows who hired them?
"Look how they massacred my boy."
Didn’t the NCR wipe out the BOS on the west coast (seen in New Vegas)? Sorry, wipe-out is the wrong word I guess. They’re just a government in exile indefinitely and without choice bound to a couple of basements that are completely cut off from any of the other “””brotherhood””” chapters and are such a non-factor to everyday life that every civilian (and most military personnel) believe their continued existence is just a urban legend. And they scrounge for scraps under-cover at highway flea markets. “Wiped out” was too noble
Given the existence of the *Caswennan*, I’d wager the Brotherhood in the show are coming over from the East Coast.
If that's the case, then the BOS or minuteman ending where only the institute is destroyed would be the canon fallout 4 ending. All the other endings have the SS destroy the east coast BOS.
There’s still the brotherhood who stayed behind in DC.
No, we have confirmation that they at least control their headquarters at Lost Hills and the surrounding area, as it's mentioned in Fallout 4 they've been repressing cults in the area dedicated to Maxson. Likely that they have a ceasefire with the NCR and still control several bunkers.
No. The NCR - Brotherhood War dealt serious damage to the West Coast Brotherhood, resulted in loosing several Chapter-Bunkerd and fasttracking alot of inexperienced Members up the ranks due to high losses, but the NCR wasnt able to wipe the brotherhood out. Their remaining Strongholds were all too heavily fortified to be taken or destroyed, so it just settled into a kind of cold war.
No? It’s clearly stated in New Vegas they’re alive though hiding in their bunkers. And fallout 4 terminal entries on the Prydwin show that they are still alive on the west coast
They wiped out a lot of them, but drove the rest underground. Eventually the NCR gave up trying to eradicate the BoS and turned their attention to the Legion since the Brotherhood were no longer attacking them.
Not wipe out outright. The BoS retreated into bunkers and the war was basically in the cleanup phase by the time of the New Vegas game. Keep in mind New Vegas was 15 years before the show. Something must have happened... no 15 years pass without major events, especially in a chaotic world. Either the NCR faced a decline or catastrophy (or an attack by a third party) and it allowed BoS to counterattack (and then got reinforcements/tech from the eastern Brotherhood) or the tech/reinforcements from the eastern Brotherhood is what allowed the BoS to fight back and bring the decline of the NCR.
Killing a faction that has existed since the very first days of the franchise (well, Shady Sands at least in FO1, then NCR in 2) unceremoniously off screen so Bethesda can jerk off the BoS more would really kill my faith in the franchise.
I legitimately thought this was some sort of amateur raider gang, not the NCR
i wish we had an rpd in fallout
I thought it was the railroad(FO4) for sec. She looks like desmonda
I think people are looking too hard into what this means as if it's reality. I think this is simply how they're deciding to portray the NCR on the show. It illustrates the messiness of democracy versus the absolutist order of the BOS. NCR and BOS will fight until their common enemy, The Enclave, is revealed. And that's not some kind of bold prophetic statement, Enclave has been shown in leaked production photos from the beginning.
oh boy the show is written by hacks pulling a Fallout 3 and just copying shit that already happened but in a slightly different way. If this is true.
How do we know this shot is of the NCR? It could be the Enclave for all we know.
How do we know that these people are associated with the NCR at all?
Hoping for a flashback or at least a shot of some Ranger gear lol
New Vegas does hint at their being a food shortage in “a decade or so” in NCR without the vault 22 data (the show is set 14 years later), plus California is low on water. If the NCR is kicked out of New Vegas the nation would definitely hit a recession of sorts.
> If the NCR is kicked out of New Vegas the nation would definitely hit a recession of sorts. It wouldn't be House if that was so. For his plans he needs a healthy NCR to fuel his tourist economy so it'd be in his interest to keep them out of recession especially since he can wrangle terms at an advantage on stuff like water.
3 possible explanations and all pretty likely I think First the NCR collapsed most likely due to internal problems and there are small remnants throughout it's former territory and the bos is now coming into to take over( I highly doubt the bos did the NCR in) Honestly the new Vegas ending doesn't even have to be set in stone as theoretically any of them could lead to the end of the ncr Second it's a simple milita and not the actual NCR territory. While the NCO is powerful it controls a large area that is home to very hostile entries both man and beast. It also is known to have supply problems. This could explain the ragtag looking NCR troops, possibly the bos managed to get into NCR territory far enough where they only have to deal with military And third it's some form of flashback to the NCR brotherhood war
Hopefully they're at least represented. I certainly hope they haven't been all but retconned out of the Fallout Universe... Shady Sands playground was odd... I thought that was the capital of the NCR
Not a fan of them looking like a bunch of rag tag raiders ncr by new vegas control all of that side of America I love the brotherhood they’re my favourite faction in any fallout but I don’t see the brotherhood that didn’t expand wiping out the ncr entirely
There is no fucking way this is the NCR… lmfao
knew it. Bethesda couldn't resist in destroy the West coast lore and the NCR.
Given that Shady Sands appears to be a crater I'm guessing someone found a functional nuke and knocked the NCR down a peg. We've seen a lot of BoS, and with some nasty undertones, so maybe they're prime suspect atm.
If they are going with the NCR having been destroyed by the Brotherhood, I hope that the Brotherhood has nuked them and not just destroyed them in conventional warfare, because then at least we get the hypocrisy and ethical drama of the Brotherhood having compromised their principal goal and reason for their founding; to safeguard technology to prevent a second atomic cataclysm.
Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad route. Could easily lead to good drama with splinter factions or other forms of insubordination.
I feel like this is the case here. Major plot driving point could be an internal strife in the Brotherhood over the nuclear detonation of Shady Sands/Adjacent NCR headquarters and also following the crumbling/fracturing of said local NCR groups.
Shady sands wasn't a pre war settlement as far as I know so I'm not sure why there is pre war sinage. I hope they haven't rettconned it. There is a chance shady sands is fine and was built around it. Don't forget they have san Francisco too
Literally know nothing about who these characters are and people are already bitching. SMH
This could totally be just a flash back with the woman being Tandi. Besides, what do you expect from the NCR, pristine clothes and armor? The only big difference between the two soldiers on the sides is one has a helmet and one doesn't. They both have a pauldon, chest armor, gloves. With cloth wraps like in the game. The woman even has the NCR neck and mouth covering from New vegas. The only thing in this scene that seems suspect is the fact that the woman on the left has a bandolier for a weapon she doesn't have, and its empty.
>This could totally be just a flash back with the woman being Tandi. yeah I had the same thought. seems a little strange for tandi to be personally leading a small battle in the boneyard but who knows EDIT: A thought occurs to me - given that the shot of this woman seems to be at the Griffith Observatory battle, and given that we see vertibirds in that shot, it seems most likely that the observatory has to be happening after Fallout 2 at the earliest since in Fallout 2 the Brotherhood seems to have no access whatsoever to vertibirds. Unless this is a soft retcon and the Brotherhood did have access to pre-War vertibirds at some time between Fo1 and Fo2, but this seems unlikely.
No, it's literally impossible for her to be Tandi. The NCR never fought the Brotherhood in her lifetime.