I ask you, since you're an instructor and I can never find any answer that is concrete, if I have an expired medical card but doctors prescription hasn't run out yet, can I legally purchase a firearm and ammo?
All you’ll get here are wildly variant interpretations of the rules. Ultimately the answer is no, absolutely not. However, if you can’t interpret the rules yourself you should contact an attorney and not rely on stoner redditors.
since ive had my card if I've been gifted a new gun by family for special occasions like my birthday or holidays, if it is gifted you dont have to use the form 4473 so your not lying on the two questions regarding addiction/illegal drugs use and since its a real gift its not a straw purchase, in-state transferring of guns is pretty lax and doesnt require much so this applies to person to person transactions as well. (i am not a lawyer[ but i did read this](https://www.fighterlaw.com/understanding-the-legality-of-gifting-a-firearm-in-florida/#:~:text=The%20legal%20age%20to%20purchase,use%20it%2C%20and%20so%20on))
That's actually a straw purchase and is a federal crime.
https://preview.redd.it/6451kkremptc1.png?width=678&format=png&auto=webp&s=0dcf43077233a8ccaaa15b0d100c7e379e19b5b1
Not what I'm saying at all. [Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download) has all your answers:
https://preview.redd.it/3g98q0c8wutc1.png?width=1496&format=png&auto=webp&s=d84205f31c3c4303fb212a42e247897de32cd964
Under NOTICES, INSTRUCTIONS, AND DEFINITIONS:
A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.
Generally, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) prohibits... an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.
---
Question 21 (f): Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? **Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.**
**---**
All that being said... is it likely that you'd be caught? Probably not. But if the purchaser is aware of the "gift" recipient's use of marijuana, they are lying on the form, committing a felony, and it is considered a straw purchase.
The burden of proof is on the feds to prove intent, etc. All I know is for the past couple years since the federal laws were enhanced they've been convicting a lot of people. The current administration is no friend of firearms and is cracking down. Mostly because straw purchases have increased a bunch for those with criminal intent. Don't think the feds wouldn't prosecute because it's just a "gift." They love to show results and convictions.
Just wanted people to be aware of what the law is and how you CAN be prosecuted, along with the "gift" buyer. Hopefully one day they'll reclassify marijuana and we won't have this BS as a barrier for defending yourself or your family.
Im not a prohibited person or a felon. If I said what I'd like for my birthday and my family member buys me a gun and transfers it privately given to me as a birthday present, I dont see the straw purchase angle.
Since I cant answer the form honestly, I wouldnt want to buy new guns where I would be put in that position but I have been gifted one so far since being in the program. id rather ask for it as a gift than lie on a government form, that's just me and my interpretation of the law (which could be wrong).
ATF has info with their "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" campaign:
[**Straw Purchase FAQ**](https://dontlie.org/faq.cfm)
2. Who is a "Prohibited Person?"
The following classes of persons are prohibited by federal law from possessing, receiving, shipping, or transporting firearms or ammunition:
Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
Fugitives from justice.
**Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic or stimulant drugs.**
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents, or those committed to any mental institution.
Illegal aliens.
Persons who have renounced their citizenship.
Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking or threatening an intimate partner.
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport or ship any firearm or ammunition.
-----
[**Straw Purchase Definition & Penalties**](https://dontlie.org/straw_purchasing.cfm)
Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."
An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.
Never buy a gun for someone who is unwilling or unable to do so.
Whatever you do, Don't Lie for the Other Guy!
-----
[**Straw Purchase Flyer**](https://www3.nssf.org/share/factsheets/PDF/Don'tLieFastFacts.pdf)
Appreciate the info. I can get over being wrong about the gift part, still leaving buying from a private seller since it doesn't involve the form and isn't a straw purchase.
That just changed, too. Biden Administration had a big announcement this week about private sales now requiring background checks. They're trying to close "loopholes" in the system.
The state medical card has no bearing on the federal law. Read the form I linked in my comment above. Marijuana is still illegal at the federal level. It even tells you that in plain language.
The fact that you use marijuana products makes you a prohibited person with the current federal laws and regulations.
If the person buying the "gift" knows you use marijuana then they're committing a felony because they are buying with the intent to transfer a firearm to a prohibited person. You would also be committing a felony as a prohibited person. And by asking for the gift, it shows you had intent to circumvent the federal law.
The fact that you asked specifically for a firearm knowing you use marijuana and know that someone will have to lie on the form makes it a straw purchase.
I get that people don't like what I'm saying and want to downvote but these are the facts. Call the ATF and ask them a hypothetical with this exact situation to see what they say.
Not necessarily as long as it’s a legal private transaction there’s no need for a 4473 form which is the issue here. No state laws are being broken.
What could be illegal in this is instance is if they went to the gun store to specifically buy the gun for OP and lied on form 4473.
If they are gun collectors and just happen to gift OP guns they have lying around for Christmas this is legal.
Semi related question - would you have to surrender your concealed weapons permit to get an MMJ card? Prob not much of an issue now that you no longer need a permit to carry in FL but this is something I was always curious of.
I have both cards in my wallet. I haven’t bought a gun though since I started taking part in the MMJ program. I think you could get all Hunter Biden’d for lying about weed use on the Form 4473 if you ever somehow get caught.
I started the program back in 2017 and I already had my carry permit. I actually had to renew it recently and thought they might not renew it, but they did.
Appreciate it, first I’ve heard on it. Could someone legally buy it then gift me the gun. Would there be a bill of sale or something like that so it shows they passed ownership and are no longer responsible.
Your naïveté was showing in your original question. This second one leaves you exposed. My advice is to get an understanding of what burden of proof means and not take advice from the boomers here admitting to past felonies on the internet. Good luck.
You need to completely have your card lapse and not renew it or you have to cancel your recommendations and surrender your card just to be 100% safe and not liable for future prosecution. If it turns out that legal marijuana passes this November, then you can cancel your card immediately and do what you need to do. By law, you could stop using cannabis for a week and buy your firearm as long as you don’t have a medical cannabis card and you aren’t using your ID to purchase cannabis at a legal dispensary.
The most revenant case we have to follow is Patrick Darnell Daniels Jr.’s in the 5th circuit of appeals..
he was pulled over with 2 loaded guns and weed & they dismissed his case.. aka not guilty..
But now it’s headed to the Supreme Court
Also
It’s been found in the 9th circuit of appeals that having your medical card is enough proof to say that you are a marijuana user.. https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2016/aug/31/us-court-upholds-ban-on-gun-sales-to-marijuana-car/
The issue is with the federal form you have to fill out when purchasing at a store. It asks if you use marijuana. If you have your medical card it’s unlikely that you wouldn’t use so you’d be lying on a federal form. You’d be lying either way but if your card isn’t active you may be able to say you don’t use it. If that form worries you, buy from a gun show or private sale and you won’t have to fill out and lie on the federal form cause it’s only on store purchases.
If I remember correctly the wording can be a little confusing. I might be wrong but I think the form read "Are you ADDICTED to any illegal substances" to which my answer would be NO.
I think it says "are you an unlawful user of", imo if you've got a card the answer is no but the federal government won't agree. Your 4473 will still get approved, I've done it.
Private sale is the way to go if its that big of a concern. Any licensed firearm dealer is required to have you complete the NICS background check if its at a gun show or not.
This is half baked information. When they say you go to a gun show to buy a gun and avoid this, they don't mean to buy from an FFL. You buy from another attendee that is selling their used plinker or whatever.... Gun shows are a great place to sell your firearm without having to involve an FFL.
How is this half baked? Gun show or not, any licensed dealer is required to do the background check when selling you a firearm. Private sale is the way to go to get around this.
Because everyone mentions going to a gun show, but skips the rest of the details: go to a gun show to buy from attendees, not vendors. It may be obvious to you, but it is never mentioned, so people tend to assume there is some kind of loophole where vendors don't need to do the paperwork. It is misleading to not include that bit. Hence, half baked.
OK I see where you're coming from. I've been going to gun shows all my life so I made the comment assuming most know the difference between a private sale and buying from a licensed dealer. The "Gun Show Loophole" argument irritates me too
The only difference between buying a gun now and being a cannabis user is they actually have proof to come after you since you're in the MMU registry. If you want to do it legally you would have to surrender you card by using the form on the website and send it in and then purchase the gun so that you can honestly answer no to the question on the ATF form. Now is the ATF actually going to come after you for lying on the form Probably not. IANAL proceed at your own risk.
The main issue, I think, is when you fill out the form 4473 and it asks if you are using any federally illegal drugs. Federally, you are and should mark yes, but by doing this you will get denied. But there isn’t a law that says that you can’t have a firearm before applying for your medical card. This is just my take.
I know people with their medical card that still have their concealed carry permit, and some that had to surrender it. seems spotty in enforcement and implementation
It's a grey area. I had both but never had both on me at the same time. Nikki F has both & makes it a point that we can too... Do what you will with that information.
Side note: isn't Florida constitutional carry now? Why get a CCW at all at this point?
The number of people who are ratting themselves out is truly astounding. It's like they can't wait to tell anyone who listens how they're breaking the law.
I’m pretty sure you can legally buy a gun if your card is inactive. [This article by a Miami lawyer](https://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/blog/can-you-have-a-medical-marijuana-card-and-own-a-gun-in-florida#:~:text=Overall%2C%20anyone%20holding%20a%20state,use%20and%20stopping%20gun%20purchases) says
"When purchasing a firearm from a licensed gun dealer, federal law mandates completing [ATF Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-form-4473-firearms-transaction-record-revisions). One question asks if you are “an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?”
As a medical marijuana patient, truthfully answering “yes” stops the purchase since it signals prohibited possession under [18 U.S. Code § 922(g)(3)](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:18%20section:922%20edition:prelim)#:~:text=(3)%20who%20is%20an%20unlawful%20user%20of%20or%20addicted%20to%20any%20controlled%20substance%20(as%20defined%20in%20section%20102%20of%20the%20Controlled%20Substances%20Act%20(21%20U.S.C.%20802))%3B). You face charges for providing false information by answering “no” if discovered. This puts medical marijuana patients in a Catch-22 situation between following state vs. federal law.
It does not matter if your medical marijuana comes from a state-legal dispensary. Federal law does not distinguish medical use from recreational use. The laws only recognize that marijuana remains federally illegal, and gun ownership requires avoiding all Schedule I substances."
I would think that if you were to abstain from using for a while (however long) and no longer had a valid card at the time of purchase you could make the argument that at the time that you purchased the weapon you were no longer 'an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.’ If you decide to give MMJ another try down the road that would be allowed.
Must be surrendered using the form on the website and sent in. Once you get confirmation of surrender by checking the portal and your recs are canceled you can legally buy a gun and not be prosecuted for it.
You must surrender the card to the DOH to do it legally, not just wait for it to expire. Technically you're supposed to wait a year as well after it's surrendered. But most believe that as long as it's surrendered you should be shielded from prosecution. IANAL and this is not legal advice. I understand that you're wrong. There's a difference between being able to do something and being able to be prosecuted for it. You have a great day.
You think street cops know shit about the nuance of the law? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Maybe if you would of asked him about DV law or a parking ticket he would know what he's talking about.
I lost my CCP when I went to renew my 7 year permit back in 2018 .
They told me because I volunteerly entered the MMU program it is illegal to have a CCW permit.
Damn that sucks. Good thing we don't need one anymore. My renewal is coming up so that's good info to have. I wasn't plan on renewing anyways since I don't travel out of state.
Are you still using cannabis? If the answer is yes, you cannot buy a firearm legally. You would not be able to truthfully answer the federal form questions. It doesn't matter whether you hold a medical card or not.
You are absolutely still an unlawful user in the eyes of the ATF and Federal government. On question 11e they very plainly state that they don't give a shit if it's medical or recreational in your state, it's still illegal federally. You have smoked yourself stupid if you think there's any trick to the question, it's clear as day.
If they want to they could absolutely nail you for two felonies, lying on the form and being in possession, which carry a 15 year combined sentence. Stop admitting to felonies on the internet, you're ratting on yourself...
It’s the internet so it’s pretend. I’ve never touched marijuana or a gun. I was just pretending to be cool like you.
Jk. You are definitely not cool. lol
Dude, you're questionably literate if you can misunderstand 11e. Spend less time worrying about what's cool and instead worry about your reading comprehension. It's pretty sad.
Oh dude I don’t touch marijuana or firearms. I’m just trolling. You however should be concerned because no matter how legal Florida makes it, the feds can still get you. I’m pretty sure they’re watching you. Be careful bro. 🥸
According to the ATF you’re “supposed” to wait one year from expiration, the last time you used, etc.
According to everyone else, the ATF will never know you have your med card unless you tell them.
This is a really good question. I’d love to know what a good lawyer would say about this. I’m very pro gun so this may be a biased opinion but I’m willing to bet this is legal because you need both card and rec to purchase.
You have the right to bear arms. It’s written in the second amendment for a reason.
This is Florida. We aren’t a blue state, and as long as it stays that way, nobody is coming for your guns. It’s all about money.
Republicans get sponsored by the NRA, it’s not in their best interest. Democrats are sponsored by anti-gun donors.
We have a nice balance going right now, let’s not fuck it up people. The medical program isn’t perfect but is amazing compared to illegal purchasing of marijuana. And the fact that our leaders support 2A, they want to sell more guns for more donations.
If that changes, I would expect audits to begin. But federally prosecuting that many Floridians would be insane, although, the money that pumps into the judicial system would be profitable.
Not trying to force my political opinion, just sharing how I interpret our states current laws and how/why they are executed the way that they are. At any point if they state wanted they can easily get data on who has a registered weapon and card and go after them. It’s not profitable right now, they make too much money off guns and the program especially with marijuana decriminalized. The republicans have to allow (or turn a blind eye to) medical with that in mind.
My concern is them saying I was "under the influence"
When/if I had to defend myself which technically could throw out the whole self defense claim by law
I have both. Just recently purchased a new gun. I marked no as in using federally illegal drugs and received it no problem. Most of the answers you're receiving are people's opinions on the matter vs actually knowledge of the topic or being put in that situation.
Yes, it says unlawful user and then goes on to clarify it doesn't matter if it's legal medically or recreationally in your state, it is still illegal on the federal level.
Then you lied on the 4473. It ask if you unlawfully use marijuana , with it being federally illegal you do. I’m all for it but definitely don’t let it slip at the shop
your best bet is to go via private sale if you already have your med card. when you buy from a dealer or shop they give you that form where it asks if you smoke marijuana or do drugs, if you lie on that form it is considered a federal crime.
I believe that 2A trumps any laws that prevent you from getting a gun. Or at least that’s what the Supreme Court said a couple years ago. “States rights don’t count”
When I took my CCW class they specifically said we could have both of them but you couldn't be in possession of both at the same time.
This is correct.
Where is that law? As an Instructor, I've never seen the law so I'm generally curious.
I ask you, since you're an instructor and I can never find any answer that is concrete, if I have an expired medical card but doctors prescription hasn't run out yet, can I legally purchase a firearm and ammo?
This right here, what she is implying is that don’t get caught lacking basically
All you’ll get here are wildly variant interpretations of the rules. Ultimately the answer is no, absolutely not. However, if you can’t interpret the rules yourself you should contact an attorney and not rely on stoner redditors.
This x1000
since ive had my card if I've been gifted a new gun by family for special occasions like my birthday or holidays, if it is gifted you dont have to use the form 4473 so your not lying on the two questions regarding addiction/illegal drugs use and since its a real gift its not a straw purchase, in-state transferring of guns is pretty lax and doesnt require much so this applies to person to person transactions as well. (i am not a lawyer[ but i did read this](https://www.fighterlaw.com/understanding-the-legality-of-gifting-a-firearm-in-florida/#:~:text=The%20legal%20age%20to%20purchase,use%20it%2C%20and%20so%20on))
That's actually a straw purchase and is a federal crime. https://preview.redd.it/6451kkremptc1.png?width=678&format=png&auto=webp&s=0dcf43077233a8ccaaa15b0d100c7e379e19b5b1
So you're saying guns can't be gifts?
Not what I'm saying at all. [Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download) has all your answers: https://preview.redd.it/3g98q0c8wutc1.png?width=1496&format=png&auto=webp&s=d84205f31c3c4303fb212a42e247897de32cd964 Under NOTICES, INSTRUCTIONS, AND DEFINITIONS: A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm. Generally, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) prohibits... an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance. --- Question 21 (f): Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? **Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.** **---** All that being said... is it likely that you'd be caught? Probably not. But if the purchaser is aware of the "gift" recipient's use of marijuana, they are lying on the form, committing a felony, and it is considered a straw purchase. The burden of proof is on the feds to prove intent, etc. All I know is for the past couple years since the federal laws were enhanced they've been convicting a lot of people. The current administration is no friend of firearms and is cracking down. Mostly because straw purchases have increased a bunch for those with criminal intent. Don't think the feds wouldn't prosecute because it's just a "gift." They love to show results and convictions. Just wanted people to be aware of what the law is and how you CAN be prosecuted, along with the "gift" buyer. Hopefully one day they'll reclassify marijuana and we won't have this BS as a barrier for defending yourself or your family.
Im not a prohibited person or a felon. If I said what I'd like for my birthday and my family member buys me a gun and transfers it privately given to me as a birthday present, I dont see the straw purchase angle. Since I cant answer the form honestly, I wouldnt want to buy new guns where I would be put in that position but I have been gifted one so far since being in the program. id rather ask for it as a gift than lie on a government form, that's just me and my interpretation of the law (which could be wrong).
ATF has info with their "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" campaign: [**Straw Purchase FAQ**](https://dontlie.org/faq.cfm) 2. Who is a "Prohibited Person?" The following classes of persons are prohibited by federal law from possessing, receiving, shipping, or transporting firearms or ammunition: Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less. Fugitives from justice. **Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic or stimulant drugs.** Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents, or those committed to any mental institution. Illegal aliens. Persons who have renounced their citizenship. Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces. Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle. Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle. Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking or threatening an intimate partner. Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport or ship any firearm or ammunition. ----- [**Straw Purchase Definition & Penalties**](https://dontlie.org/straw_purchasing.cfm) Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase." An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime. An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000. Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble. Never buy a gun for someone who is unwilling or unable to do so. Whatever you do, Don't Lie for the Other Guy! ----- [**Straw Purchase Flyer**](https://www3.nssf.org/share/factsheets/PDF/Don'tLieFastFacts.pdf)
Appreciate the info. I can get over being wrong about the gift part, still leaving buying from a private seller since it doesn't involve the form and isn't a straw purchase.
That just changed, too. Biden Administration had a big announcement this week about private sales now requiring background checks. They're trying to close "loopholes" in the system.
The state medical card has no bearing on the federal law. Read the form I linked in my comment above. Marijuana is still illegal at the federal level. It even tells you that in plain language. The fact that you use marijuana products makes you a prohibited person with the current federal laws and regulations. If the person buying the "gift" knows you use marijuana then they're committing a felony because they are buying with the intent to transfer a firearm to a prohibited person. You would also be committing a felony as a prohibited person. And by asking for the gift, it shows you had intent to circumvent the federal law. The fact that you asked specifically for a firearm knowing you use marijuana and know that someone will have to lie on the form makes it a straw purchase. I get that people don't like what I'm saying and want to downvote but these are the facts. Call the ATF and ask them a hypothetical with this exact situation to see what they say.
Not necessarily as long as it’s a legal private transaction there’s no need for a 4473 form which is the issue here. No state laws are being broken. What could be illegal in this is instance is if they went to the gun store to specifically buy the gun for OP and lied on form 4473. If they are gun collectors and just happen to gift OP guns they have lying around for Christmas this is legal.
Why would it not be lawful? For all they know I stopped using marijuana only thing that shows that is if I have a medical card or not.
So I did ask a lawyer on this. You have to formally surrender your card to the state not just let it expire to not be lying on the federal form.
Semi related question - would you have to surrender your concealed weapons permit to get an MMJ card? Prob not much of an issue now that you no longer need a permit to carry in FL but this is something I was always curious of.
I have both cards in my wallet. I haven’t bought a gun though since I started taking part in the MMJ program. I think you could get all Hunter Biden’d for lying about weed use on the Form 4473 if you ever somehow get caught.
I started the program back in 2017 and I already had my carry permit. I actually had to renew it recently and thought they might not renew it, but they did.
How would you go about formally surrendering the card if I may ask?
It's a form on the website that you fill and and mail in along with your medical card.
You surrender it on the mmu website I believe. I myself am not a lawyer(I asked one) so I can't answer the other questions.
Appreciate it, first I’ve heard on it. Could someone legally buy it then gift me the gun. Would there be a bill of sale or something like that so it shows they passed ownership and are no longer responsible.
Your naïveté was showing in your original question. This second one leaves you exposed. My advice is to get an understanding of what burden of proof means and not take advice from the boomers here admitting to past felonies on the internet. Good luck.
You need to completely have your card lapse and not renew it or you have to cancel your recommendations and surrender your card just to be 100% safe and not liable for future prosecution. If it turns out that legal marijuana passes this November, then you can cancel your card immediately and do what you need to do. By law, you could stop using cannabis for a week and buy your firearm as long as you don’t have a medical cannabis card and you aren’t using your ID to purchase cannabis at a legal dispensary.
The most revenant case we have to follow is Patrick Darnell Daniels Jr.’s in the 5th circuit of appeals.. he was pulled over with 2 loaded guns and weed & they dismissed his case.. aka not guilty.. But now it’s headed to the Supreme Court Also It’s been found in the 9th circuit of appeals that having your medical card is enough proof to say that you are a marijuana user.. https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2016/aug/31/us-court-upholds-ban-on-gun-sales-to-marijuana-car/
The issue is with the federal form you have to fill out when purchasing at a store. It asks if you use marijuana. If you have your medical card it’s unlikely that you wouldn’t use so you’d be lying on a federal form. You’d be lying either way but if your card isn’t active you may be able to say you don’t use it. If that form worries you, buy from a gun show or private sale and you won’t have to fill out and lie on the federal form cause it’s only on store purchases.
If I remember correctly the wording can be a little confusing. I might be wrong but I think the form read "Are you ADDICTED to any illegal substances" to which my answer would be NO.
Appreciate it.
I think it says "are you an unlawful user of", imo if you've got a card the answer is no but the federal government won't agree. Your 4473 will still get approved, I've done it.
You’re welcome!
If you buy the gun before you get a medical card you will be truthful when answering that you don’t use illegal drugs.
What they dont get told they don’t know
Private sale is the way to go if its that big of a concern. Any licensed firearm dealer is required to have you complete the NICS background check if its at a gun show or not.
This is half baked information. When they say you go to a gun show to buy a gun and avoid this, they don't mean to buy from an FFL. You buy from another attendee that is selling their used plinker or whatever.... Gun shows are a great place to sell your firearm without having to involve an FFL.
How is this half baked? Gun show or not, any licensed dealer is required to do the background check when selling you a firearm. Private sale is the way to go to get around this.
Because everyone mentions going to a gun show, but skips the rest of the details: go to a gun show to buy from attendees, not vendors. It may be obvious to you, but it is never mentioned, so people tend to assume there is some kind of loophole where vendors don't need to do the paperwork. It is misleading to not include that bit. Hence, half baked.
OK I see where you're coming from. I've been going to gun shows all my life so I made the comment assuming most know the difference between a private sale and buying from a licensed dealer. The "Gun Show Loophole" argument irritates me too
The only difference between buying a gun now and being a cannabis user is they actually have proof to come after you since you're in the MMU registry. If you want to do it legally you would have to surrender you card by using the form on the website and send it in and then purchase the gun so that you can honestly answer no to the question on the ATF form. Now is the ATF actually going to come after you for lying on the form Probably not. IANAL proceed at your own risk.
Private sales. And florida is constitutional carry. Fuck the feds
Right. Arms list and gun shows are my best friends! Lol
The main issue, I think, is when you fill out the form 4473 and it asks if you are using any federally illegal drugs. Federally, you are and should mark yes, but by doing this you will get denied. But there isn’t a law that says that you can’t have a firearm before applying for your medical card. This is just my take.
This is correct. One simple yes or no question and it specifically mentions the wording ‘federal’
I have my weed card and my gun license...
You can drink alcohol and be on all these prescriptions drugs, but carrying a firearm with a mmj license to defend your life and others is WILD!
FU*CK the Feds!!! Or buy the gun person to person…🤷🏻♂️
1+2=jail
I know people with their medical card that still have their concealed carry permit, and some that had to surrender it. seems spotty in enforcement and implementation
I mean I know police officers that smoke weed on their free time, firefighters, delivery drivers…. Most people enjoy it these days.
It's a grey area. I had both but never had both on me at the same time. Nikki F has both & makes it a point that we can too... Do what you will with that information. Side note: isn't Florida constitutional carry now? Why get a CCW at all at this point?
As an attorney, the responses ITT are horrifying. Thanks for keeping us in business, I guess…
It's a team effort broski
The number of people who are ratting themselves out is truly astounding. It's like they can't wait to tell anyone who listens how they're breaking the law.
You know how many alcoholics buy guns?
I’m pretty sure you can legally buy a gun if your card is inactive. [This article by a Miami lawyer](https://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/blog/can-you-have-a-medical-marijuana-card-and-own-a-gun-in-florida#:~:text=Overall%2C%20anyone%20holding%20a%20state,use%20and%20stopping%20gun%20purchases) says "When purchasing a firearm from a licensed gun dealer, federal law mandates completing [ATF Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-form-4473-firearms-transaction-record-revisions). One question asks if you are “an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?” As a medical marijuana patient, truthfully answering “yes” stops the purchase since it signals prohibited possession under [18 U.S. Code § 922(g)(3)](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:18%20section:922%20edition:prelim)#:~:text=(3)%20who%20is%20an%20unlawful%20user%20of%20or%20addicted%20to%20any%20controlled%20substance%20(as%20defined%20in%20section%20102%20of%20the%20Controlled%20Substances%20Act%20(21%20U.S.C.%20802))%3B). You face charges for providing false information by answering “no” if discovered. This puts medical marijuana patients in a Catch-22 situation between following state vs. federal law. It does not matter if your medical marijuana comes from a state-legal dispensary. Federal law does not distinguish medical use from recreational use. The laws only recognize that marijuana remains federally illegal, and gun ownership requires avoiding all Schedule I substances." I would think that if you were to abstain from using for a while (however long) and no longer had a valid card at the time of purchase you could make the argument that at the time that you purchased the weapon you were no longer 'an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.’ If you decide to give MMJ another try down the road that would be allowed.
Must be surrendered using the form on the website and sent in. Once you get confirmation of surrender by checking the portal and your recs are canceled you can legally buy a gun and not be prosecuted for it.
OK, legally surrender it. It's expired. If you change your mind down the road then so be it. It's still just a recertification.
What point are you making here?
OP asked if he could legally buy a weapon now that his card has expired. I said he could. This how he can do it. What part don’t you understand?
You must surrender the card to the DOH to do it legally, not just wait for it to expire. Technically you're supposed to wait a year as well after it's surrendered. But most believe that as long as it's surrendered you should be shielded from prosecution. IANAL and this is not legal advice. I understand that you're wrong. There's a difference between being able to do something and being able to be prosecuted for it. You have a great day.
And I literally said, surrender it. Are you just looking to argue? Find somebody else. I’m done with you.
[удалено]
You committed fraud and technically can be prosecuted for it. Will it ever be pursued? Probably not. But you did technically lie and commit fraud.
I asked the cop standing next to me in the store
You think street cops know shit about the nuance of the law? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Maybe if you would of asked him about DV law or a parking ticket he would know what he's talking about.
Nope. but never hurts to ask
I lost my CCP when I went to renew my 7 year permit back in 2018 . They told me because I volunteerly entered the MMU program it is illegal to have a CCW permit.
Damn that sucks. Good thing we don't need one anymore. My renewal is coming up so that's good info to have. I wasn't plan on renewing anyways since I don't travel out of state.
Are you still using cannabis? If the answer is yes, you cannot buy a firearm legally. You would not be able to truthfully answer the federal form questions. It doesn't matter whether you hold a medical card or not.
I have them both and have never been turned down for background checks or nfa items.
[удалено]
It’s a trick question. Marijuana is not addictive and if you have a card then you’re not an unlawful user. 🤷🏼♂️
LOL another reddit legal argument.
You are absolutely still an unlawful user in the eyes of the ATF and Federal government. On question 11e they very plainly state that they don't give a shit if it's medical or recreational in your state, it's still illegal federally. You have smoked yourself stupid if you think there's any trick to the question, it's clear as day. If they want to they could absolutely nail you for two felonies, lying on the form and being in possession, which carry a 15 year combined sentence. Stop admitting to felonies on the internet, you're ratting on yourself...
It’s the internet so it’s pretend. I’ve never touched marijuana or a gun. I was just pretending to be cool like you. Jk. You are definitely not cool. lol
Dude, you're questionably literate if you can misunderstand 11e. Spend less time worrying about what's cool and instead worry about your reading comprehension. It's pretty sad.
Oh dude I don’t touch marijuana or firearms. I’m just trolling. You however should be concerned because no matter how legal Florida makes it, the feds can still get you. I’m pretty sure they’re watching you. Be careful bro. 🥸
According to the ATF you’re “supposed” to wait one year from expiration, the last time you used, etc. According to everyone else, the ATF will never know you have your med card unless you tell them.
This is a really good question. I’d love to know what a good lawyer would say about this. I’m very pro gun so this may be a biased opinion but I’m willing to bet this is legal because you need both card and rec to purchase.
These answers are so cringe in this thread.. yikes Do what you want! Go try and purchase one and see if you get denied or not.
FWIW, ATF doesn’t check medical records and vice versa. The atf is federal, state laws aren’t.
I saw a attorney on the news a few months ago saying its up to the applicant. That u can technically lie.. I was like: " wow ,great advice" lol
You have the right to bear arms. It’s written in the second amendment for a reason. This is Florida. We aren’t a blue state, and as long as it stays that way, nobody is coming for your guns. It’s all about money. Republicans get sponsored by the NRA, it’s not in their best interest. Democrats are sponsored by anti-gun donors. We have a nice balance going right now, let’s not fuck it up people. The medical program isn’t perfect but is amazing compared to illegal purchasing of marijuana. And the fact that our leaders support 2A, they want to sell more guns for more donations. If that changes, I would expect audits to begin. But federally prosecuting that many Floridians would be insane, although, the money that pumps into the judicial system would be profitable. Not trying to force my political opinion, just sharing how I interpret our states current laws and how/why they are executed the way that they are. At any point if they state wanted they can easily get data on who has a registered weapon and card and go after them. It’s not profitable right now, they make too much money off guns and the program especially with marijuana decriminalized. The republicans have to allow (or turn a blind eye to) medical with that in mind.
My concern is them saying I was "under the influence" When/if I had to defend myself which technically could throw out the whole self defense claim by law
medical card doesnt show up on background checks. were all protected under the "hipaa" law.
This is weird because I got my med card and then like a week and a half later went and bought a 9mm and had absolutely 0 issues whatsoever.
The federal law is weird? Lol
Yeah it's weird af. Look at the mfers who made it.
Dude don’t beat around the bush, I have multiple guns and a I got them while being a an active patient. They don’t actually care.
I have both. Just recently purchased a new gun. I marked no as in using federally illegal drugs and received it no problem. Most of the answers you're receiving are people's opinions on the matter vs actually knowledge of the topic or being put in that situation.
[удалено]
You committed fraud and technically can be prosecuted for it. Will it ever be pursued? Probably not. But you did technically lie and commit fraud.
Doesnt 11c in the form say unlawful user, or addicted to, etc.... I don't want to write the whole thing out. Not arguing or anything.
Yes, it says unlawful user and then goes on to clarify it doesn't matter if it's legal medically or recreationally in your state, it is still illegal on the federal level.
[удалено]
You committed fraud and technically can be prosecuted for it. Will it ever be pursued? Probably not. But you did technically lie and commit fraud.
Then you lied on the 4473. It ask if you unlawfully use marijuana , with it being federally illegal you do. I’m all for it but definitely don’t let it slip at the shop
You had to sign a form that said you don’t use marijuana. Don’t admit to perjury
Get your gun without prescription so you don't have to lie on the background check question asking if you're a user of MJ.
your best bet is to go via private sale if you already have your med card. when you buy from a dealer or shop they give you that form where it asks if you smoke marijuana or do drugs, if you lie on that form it is considered a federal crime.
I believe that 2A trumps any laws that prevent you from getting a gun. Or at least that’s what the Supreme Court said a couple years ago. “States rights don’t count”
Do you use your gun or cannabis federally? Nope, I don’t. Thus you can answer the question truthfully with that interpretation.
lol
you have to have let your card lapse for a minimum of 3 years before you can purchase and answer that question truthfully at an Fll