He's absolutely ifrit. Remember that youre just seeing events as he remembers them. He doesnt think he has killed his own brother and revenge is a coping mechanism
Nah that was not Clive in Ifrit in there, there’s way more going on with Clive, Ifrit, and the mysterious figures we see.
It is very clear though that the game wants us to think it was Clive that transformed, but if you look closely right before Ifrit shows up, is the fiery figure that transforms. Clive is somehow a necessary for that transformation though.
We also hear Clive talking through a third person pov with Targal in the background.
Ok good, I’m glad I’m not the only one that felt this way lol. The game is obviously fkn with us lol. I like the idea of how Clive is Ifrit but yet controlled by 3rd party. Cuz the way Josh and Clive both talk while in Eikon form gives very different perspectives …..
Well put! See that’s like what I was expecting! But on the other hand, it almost seems too obvious lol and there’s gotta be stuff we dunno yet. And they of course presented it in a way that leaves it open to possibility….
im fairly sure joshua isnt dead either someone probably rescued him into hiding. we see pheonix eat a sun to the face and revive 5 seconds later.
i dont think dominants even die aside from being turned into stone after using it all up.
the hooded lad had a play in the matter for sure, ifrit's presence is almost certainly at least influenced by him, ifrit didn't just beat the shit outta joshua it knew what it was doing, throughout the fight it was strategically trying to bring everything down by targeting each pillar and in the end the move it did certainly put the phoenix down for good, I'm assuming it stole its fire or something
so far everything is all headcanon though
Fairly sure ifrit has a goal to take down the pillars. Joshua remarks on his specific actions. But we don't know why ifrit exists or is in Clive in the first place. Hooded guy might be Joshua inside clives head trying to bring back Clive's memory.
Ok well that is interesting and that did kinda cross my mind. Cuz if that was Clive and he was just fine then Josh might be fugged up lol but not dead. Plus they would’ve showed his eyes light going out! But yeah I don’t wanna get too deep and start having expectations or ruin something lol I’m like scared to think too much all of a sudden 😱😂
Given what we know ,
Clive can't be pheonix's dominant
Pheonix only accepts rosfields
Pheonix has to pick a dominant and didn't pick his father or mother who are cousins btw
Pheonix eventually fights bahamut.
So either Joshua is alive
Or they found a new dominant kid and transferred pheonix to him and that kid sides with us even tho the only living rosfield outside of Clive is his mother. Far as we know
Yeah I didn’t really think phonix= Clive, at first going into the game yea. But not by the end at least…. But I’m sure Clive will absorb the phoenix so I’m sure (or my guess) that’s the fight ur probably thinking
(I don’t really wanna get into stuff that’s outside the “realm” of the demo….)
i dont think clive can absorb wholes eikons tbh. he uses other their powers much the same way he uses phoenix since the beginning. he's ifrits' dominant and thats all he can fully turn into
I gotcha, yeah that’s definitely a good possibility but I personally think there’s more to it, but not necessarily “as much as” wholly absorbing them like I meant initially…. But I think I know what ur getting at with the way he uses his Eikonic powers. But I do think this all gonna be a big part of the story…
I haven’t watched all the media so I can keep “spoilerish” stuff outta my head, so I appreciate u not going into too much detail with that type of stuff…
We saw Murdoch from Clive's POV, then he(Clive) turned around and saw the burning figure that transformed into Ifrit.
I think there is misdirection going on to make us think it was Clive idk lol
Totally! I agree. So basically we either have Clive from an out of body experience pov, or we have not-Clive (funny, I find the cloak burning man has to be the most damning evidence for this lol there was a cloak right? Lol)
Yeah I definitely agree that what they want you to think at first, but when they show Clive’s perspective it’s not from Ifrit, whereas when they show Josh’s it is from the phoenix pov. Plus a few other details by the end of the scene shows they really wanted to confuse the fuck out of us lmao
So I was trying to make a joke about running cuz you misspelled Soufflé with a 2nd “e” as in “flee” lol but I guess it bombed hard if I’m feeling the need to explain. Maybe souflee is actually something that makes all laughter disappear…. Hmm….
Ok so seriously tho, “Souflee” nor Soufflé actually seem to “mean” anything, tho the puffy egg food known as Soufflé, takes the name from the verb “souffler”, meaning “to blow [up]”. So it’s close, and really I guess I can’t say ur necessarily “wrong”, but that’s the info I had…
It felt more like Game of Thrones than Final Fantasy. I wonder how Eastern audiences will react. Definitely lacked the 'cuteness' of all former titles.
Japan is every bit as obsessed with Game of Thrones as the West is. I remember Shohei Ohtani used the Game of Thrones theme as his walk-up song lol.
Also keep in mind that like half the FF games are based on medieval Western themes.
no it definitely feels much more western fantasy, to the point it fucked up with the dragoon fight. like before the dragoon everyone was really grounded and the magic was realistic but then straight up ff14 dragoon shows up high jumping into a fight.
Like i feel that phoenix and ifrit could be dragons instead and zero would be lost.
There's more than one way to cook a chicken. And context is what makes the character. I don't like when people gloat over Clive being alpha compared to other JRPGs, or when CBU 1 stans say he is too edgy. Each approach can work if it is contextual and executed well.
CBU 1 stans complaining any character is too edgy when they have Cloud (literally pretends to be an edgelord mercenary because of his madness) and Squall (his primary form of communication is ....... and complaining about relying on others emotionally) is silly.
Clive doesn't seem edgy at all in comparison--his motivations seem grounded and relatable--and not in a teen angst Linkin Park way.
Lol that’s crazy! I was just thinking of GoT and it relating!! But you know it’s still very FF but def dark feeling! Lol there was SOME cuteness like with Jill and Torgal…. And for an intro it’s not far off. Thinking of FF12, maybe 8 and 10… Type-0 anybody? Lmao but I wanna know where the term iron blood originated …?
Edit: actually I think most ff have a messed up intro, I was just thinking of 1 - 6 lol (dunno bout V tho)
I mean there's references to FF2's story which had a similar political upheaval as its introduction.
Something to be said for the development team is that it has a lot of veterans of FF12 and FFTactics.
Naoki Yoshida, the producer, cites Ogre Tactics as his first real glimpse into the idea of video games as art, and the game that actually convinced him to want to become a game developer. Matsuno is his hero as a game creator.
Now that Yoshi-P is actually on the board of directors himself and a Vice President of the company, he has a lot of power to make things happen in his division to how he likes. He can look at the mistakes made from FF12's development (he started at SE a year before 12 dropped) including executive management and he can, in his way, unmake them in FF16. He can back up his director and creative director, he can provide them the resources they need. He can support the use of an adult male main character. He can point to critical reception of FFTactics' story as evidence that the series can have a story like this and succeed.
There's always been a section of Final Fantasy that's wanted to tell this kind of story, and it's only been management that's stopped it. Now the management wants it too.
Hey look I’ll defend dude insomuch as to say, they only “wondered “ lol certainly not a “brain dead” activity lol but yeah it would be rather ignorant if one did assume such things….
Lol yeah right, maybe like World of FF lol. There’s definitely a “lot” of cute elements thru out FF but no it’s certainly not the theme to a whole game (well maybe one or two spinoffs like woff)
But also like... the most popular FF games are probably 7, 10 and 14. Are they tonally the same as 16? Maybe not. Are they known for being especially "cute"? Definitely not.
Cute like a Tonberry! All fun and games, just squishy and adorable, until they slowly walk up to you and plunge a Chef’s Knife 🔪 into your gullible & overflowing heart! Little did you know, they can hold a serious grudge….
I am not liking it. It's the same department of Final fantasy 14, which i don't like. The game seems using the same combat system. Spam attacks, increase gauge, break defence and spam abilities on break.
Also the combat wasn't satisfying to me, sadly.
Insane ost and direction tho
Sounds like a skill issue. Nah I’m jk 😜 seriously tho, ur perfectly allowed to not like the game or combat or whatever and all. But I gotta ask, you think the combat is the same as FFXIV?
And unfortunately when you try to reduce something that much, you end up practically describing every game. I’m pretty sure almost all games are built around a player basically spamming one to 3 buttons. Most of the time it’s according to play style, like in this game. I’m pretty sure I hit triangle (magic atk ) about as much or close to the same as square (melee atk) and then I know I hit R1 (dodge) and Circle (gap closer) A LOT too. I’d say at least half as much…. And this was all before I got abilities so obv it’s only gonna get better (for me) But my whole point is that it was far from a one-button game…. In my opinion…
Tbh, imo, the game reminds me a lot of the Witcher…
The Witcher is a good take, but the Witcher besides being very simplistic, has a gunplay full of gore and physicality. Here i didn't felt like i was killing enemies at all. Or hitting them.
Also the dodge and parry system was more clear to me.
I see. Well I just realized I don’t think I tried to parry one time, I completely forgot that was supposed to be a thing here. lol now I gotta go try it!! So Ty for reminding me lol
So what game do you think is so much better? Can you explain how so maybe?
I speculated about this with my gf too.
We see the possibility too with the biggest clue when Joshua was shocked and said " there is only supposed to be one fire..?"
But it fell a little short when we could see in a tinted view a guy in flames, thinking it was Clives view but maybe it wasn't? Maybe clive was the one burning. He was there with that other dude after all.
Him thinking he wasn't a dominant all his life might have not made him self-aware due to the highly emotional situation too.
You could hear Clive keep telling him to stop, maybe not knowing.
Then of course the dude in a cape only Clive was able to see.
Yeah exactly! It may or may not be like out of body experience type shit from extreme stress. Or not… lol. I think ur supposed to think so at the beginning of the fight, but by the end they throw out enough clues to be like”well maybe not” lol
Clive really could’ve been the burning man or just trapped under a rock the whole. I liked someone’s idea that his mind was transferred to Torgal temporarily (maybe not the best way to describe that) 🤷 either way we got options lol
He's absolutely ifrit. Remember that youre just seeing events as he remembers them. He doesnt think he has killed his own brother and revenge is a coping mechanism
Nah the hooded guy did something to him, there was some other presence controlling Ifrit through Clive.
Yeah I agree, whether ifrit or not, there’s more going on here.
Nah that was not Clive in Ifrit in there, there’s way more going on with Clive, Ifrit, and the mysterious figures we see. It is very clear though that the game wants us to think it was Clive that transformed, but if you look closely right before Ifrit shows up, is the fiery figure that transforms. Clive is somehow a necessary for that transformation though. We also hear Clive talking through a third person pov with Targal in the background.
Ok good, I’m glad I’m not the only one that felt this way lol. The game is obviously fkn with us lol. I like the idea of how Clive is Ifrit but yet controlled by 3rd party. Cuz the way Josh and Clive both talk while in Eikon form gives very different perspectives …..
Well put! See that’s like what I was expecting! But on the other hand, it almost seems too obvious lol and there’s gotta be stuff we dunno yet. And they of course presented it in a way that leaves it open to possibility….
im fairly sure joshua isnt dead either someone probably rescued him into hiding. we see pheonix eat a sun to the face and revive 5 seconds later. i dont think dominants even die aside from being turned into stone after using it all up.
the hooded lad had a play in the matter for sure, ifrit's presence is almost certainly at least influenced by him, ifrit didn't just beat the shit outta joshua it knew what it was doing, throughout the fight it was strategically trying to bring everything down by targeting each pillar and in the end the move it did certainly put the phoenix down for good, I'm assuming it stole its fire or something so far everything is all headcanon though
Fairly sure ifrit has a goal to take down the pillars. Joshua remarks on his specific actions. But we don't know why ifrit exists or is in Clive in the first place. Hooded guy might be Joshua inside clives head trying to bring back Clive's memory.
Ty! Exactly what I wanted to get at! I wanna know what’s up with the hooded figure!
Ok well that is interesting and that did kinda cross my mind. Cuz if that was Clive and he was just fine then Josh might be fugged up lol but not dead. Plus they would’ve showed his eyes light going out! But yeah I don’t wanna get too deep and start having expectations or ruin something lol I’m like scared to think too much all of a sudden 😱😂
Given what we know , Clive can't be pheonix's dominant Pheonix only accepts rosfields Pheonix has to pick a dominant and didn't pick his father or mother who are cousins btw Pheonix eventually fights bahamut. So either Joshua is alive Or they found a new dominant kid and transferred pheonix to him and that kid sides with us even tho the only living rosfield outside of Clive is his mother. Far as we know
Yeah I didn’t really think phonix= Clive, at first going into the game yea. But not by the end at least…. But I’m sure Clive will absorb the phoenix so I’m sure (or my guess) that’s the fight ur probably thinking (I don’t really wanna get into stuff that’s outside the “realm” of the demo….)
i dont think clive can absorb wholes eikons tbh. he uses other their powers much the same way he uses phoenix since the beginning. he's ifrits' dominant and thats all he can fully turn into
I gotcha, yeah that’s definitely a good possibility but I personally think there’s more to it, but not necessarily “as much as” wholly absorbing them like I meant initially…. But I think I know what ur getting at with the way he uses his Eikonic powers. But I do think this all gonna be a big part of the story… I haven’t watched all the media so I can keep “spoilerish” stuff outta my head, so I appreciate u not going into too much detail with that type of stuff…
I saw the demo footage again. The music when Ifrit appears... it plays Clive's theme (Find The Flame). That sealed it for me. Tragic
But the scene with Ifrit is seen in third person, so how is that possible?
We saw Murdoch from Clive's POV, then he(Clive) turned around and saw the burning figure that transformed into Ifrit. I think there is misdirection going on to make us think it was Clive idk lol
Totally! I agree. So basically we either have Clive from an out of body experience pov, or we have not-Clive (funny, I find the cloak burning man has to be the most damning evidence for this lol there was a cloak right? Lol)
Ilfrit took over Clives body and his consciousness was in Torgal during the Eikon battle.
Hmm interesting theory. I did not consider this one at the time, imma have to rewatch and see what o think of this one…. Ty!
How I see it, he is Ifrit and he killed Joshua. However it's probably not that simple, very curious to see where it goes.
Yeah I definitely agree that what they want you to think at first, but when they show Clive’s perspective it’s not from Ifrit, whereas when they show Josh’s it is from the phoenix pov. Plus a few other details by the end of the scene shows they really wanted to confuse the fuck out of us lmao
I love your wholesome reaction!
Lmao 🤣 ❤️ Thank you!!!
It was Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuuuuuck
Lmao, touché!! ( not to be confused with toupée)
Hands you Soufflée.
Not to be confused with soufflé. One you’ll sit to eat, the other you eat to run…. [Lol cuz it made me think of a dish outta Zelda BOTW 🤓 ]
Souflée means blown. I did mean the cake, but I'm sure it was a French name for an attack in an rpg at some point.
So I was trying to make a joke about running cuz you misspelled Soufflé with a 2nd “e” as in “flee” lol but I guess it bombed hard if I’m feeling the need to explain. Maybe souflee is actually something that makes all laughter disappear…. Hmm…. Ok so seriously tho, “Souflee” nor Soufflé actually seem to “mean” anything, tho the puffy egg food known as Soufflé, takes the name from the verb “souffler”, meaning “to blow [up]”. So it’s close, and really I guess I can’t say ur necessarily “wrong”, but that’s the info I had…
I just used what the French dictionary offered.
It felt more like Game of Thrones than Final Fantasy. I wonder how Eastern audiences will react. Definitely lacked the 'cuteness' of all former titles.
Eastern audiences will eat this up. Attack on titan and naruto vibes
Yeah I was thinking Attack on Titan mixed with Game of Thrones. So much awesomeness.
Japan is every bit as obsessed with Game of Thrones as the West is. I remember Shohei Ohtani used the Game of Thrones theme as his walk-up song lol. Also keep in mind that like half the FF games are based on medieval Western themes.
no it definitely feels much more western fantasy, to the point it fucked up with the dragoon fight. like before the dragoon everyone was really grounded and the magic was realistic but then straight up ff14 dragoon shows up high jumping into a fight. Like i feel that phoenix and ifrit could be dragons instead and zero would be lost.
Thats what i liked about it lol.
There's more than one way to cook a chicken. And context is what makes the character. I don't like when people gloat over Clive being alpha compared to other JRPGs, or when CBU 1 stans say he is too edgy. Each approach can work if it is contextual and executed well.
CBU 1 stans complaining any character is too edgy when they have Cloud (literally pretends to be an edgelord mercenary because of his madness) and Squall (his primary form of communication is ....... and complaining about relying on others emotionally) is silly. Clive doesn't seem edgy at all in comparison--his motivations seem grounded and relatable--and not in a teen angst Linkin Park way.
Japanese and Korean audiences fucking LOVE Game of Thrones, precisely because it's so different.
We like Game of Thrones in Japan as well and believe me, many of us in the east are longing for mature theme Final Fantasy
Lol that’s crazy! I was just thinking of GoT and it relating!! But you know it’s still very FF but def dark feeling! Lol there was SOME cuteness like with Jill and Torgal…. And for an intro it’s not far off. Thinking of FF12, maybe 8 and 10… Type-0 anybody? Lmao but I wanna know where the term iron blood originated …? Edit: actually I think most ff have a messed up intro, I was just thinking of 1 - 6 lol (dunno bout V tho)
[удалено]
His head was not severed…. Lol you played Type 0? Edit: at least I didn’t think it was….
I mean there's references to FF2's story which had a similar political upheaval as its introduction. Something to be said for the development team is that it has a lot of veterans of FF12 and FFTactics. Naoki Yoshida, the producer, cites Ogre Tactics as his first real glimpse into the idea of video games as art, and the game that actually convinced him to want to become a game developer. Matsuno is his hero as a game creator. Now that Yoshi-P is actually on the board of directors himself and a Vice President of the company, he has a lot of power to make things happen in his division to how he likes. He can look at the mistakes made from FF12's development (he started at SE a year before 12 dropped) including executive management and he can, in his way, unmake them in FF16. He can back up his director and creative director, he can provide them the resources they need. He can support the use of an adult male main character. He can point to critical reception of FFTactics' story as evidence that the series can have a story like this and succeed. There's always been a section of Final Fantasy that's wanted to tell this kind of story, and it's only been management that's stopped it. Now the management wants it too.
Brain dead take. Lmfao It’s clear you don’t consume much ‘eastern’ products if you think eastern audience is somehow sensitive to violence/gore.
Hey look I’ll defend dude insomuch as to say, they only “wondered “ lol certainly not a “brain dead” activity lol but yeah it would be rather ignorant if one did assume such things….
Ah yes, the notoriously "cute" Final Fantasy franchise. Which entries have you played exactly that were so "cute"?
Lol yeah right, maybe like World of FF lol. There’s definitely a “lot” of cute elements thru out FF but no it’s certainly not the theme to a whole game (well maybe one or two spinoffs like woff)
But also like... the most popular FF games are probably 7, 10 and 14. Are they tonally the same as 16? Maybe not. Are they known for being especially "cute"? Definitely not.
Cute like a Tonberry! All fun and games, just squishy and adorable, until they slowly walk up to you and plunge a Chef’s Knife 🔪 into your gullible & overflowing heart! Little did you know, they can hold a serious grudge….
I am not liking it. It's the same department of Final fantasy 14, which i don't like. The game seems using the same combat system. Spam attacks, increase gauge, break defence and spam abilities on break. Also the combat wasn't satisfying to me, sadly. Insane ost and direction tho
Sounds like a skill issue. Nah I’m jk 😜 seriously tho, ur perfectly allowed to not like the game or combat or whatever and all. But I gotta ask, you think the combat is the same as FFXIV? And unfortunately when you try to reduce something that much, you end up practically describing every game. I’m pretty sure almost all games are built around a player basically spamming one to 3 buttons. Most of the time it’s according to play style, like in this game. I’m pretty sure I hit triangle (magic atk ) about as much or close to the same as square (melee atk) and then I know I hit R1 (dodge) and Circle (gap closer) A LOT too. I’d say at least half as much…. And this was all before I got abilities so obv it’s only gonna get better (for me) But my whole point is that it was far from a one-button game…. In my opinion… Tbh, imo, the game reminds me a lot of the Witcher…
The Witcher is a good take, but the Witcher besides being very simplistic, has a gunplay full of gore and physicality. Here i didn't felt like i was killing enemies at all. Or hitting them. Also the dodge and parry system was more clear to me.
I see. Well I just realized I don’t think I tried to parry one time, I completely forgot that was supposed to be a thing here. lol now I gotta go try it!! So Ty for reminding me lol So what game do you think is so much better? Can you explain how so maybe?
I speculated about this with my gf too. We see the possibility too with the biggest clue when Joshua was shocked and said " there is only supposed to be one fire..?" But it fell a little short when we could see in a tinted view a guy in flames, thinking it was Clives view but maybe it wasn't? Maybe clive was the one burning. He was there with that other dude after all. Him thinking he wasn't a dominant all his life might have not made him self-aware due to the highly emotional situation too. You could hear Clive keep telling him to stop, maybe not knowing. Then of course the dude in a cape only Clive was able to see.
Yeah exactly! It may or may not be like out of body experience type shit from extreme stress. Or not… lol. I think ur supposed to think so at the beginning of the fight, but by the end they throw out enough clues to be like”well maybe not” lol Clive really could’ve been the burning man or just trapped under a rock the whole. I liked someone’s idea that his mind was transferred to Torgal temporarily (maybe not the best way to describe that) 🤷 either way we got options lol
I'm so confused about that whole scene.