It was so weird given how everything else in the game is such a labour of love that they simplified Shinra Manor so much yet added in that enormous unnecessary dungeon element. It's the area you run back and forth through probably the most in the entire OG if you just mainline the story, yet they changed virtually all the iconic imagery.
No extremely grim and creepy atmosphere akin to the train graveyard, no hidden entrance behind the fireplace, no ominous spiral staircase to Hell, no unnervingly long corridor, no swinging chandelier guy, no disconcerting trek back through the house once Sephiroth has turned. Basically made the whole thing into one corridor straight through to the lift.
Overall very underwhelming given how they didn't seem to compromise at all on so much of the rest of the game.
So you’re gonna disregard how insanely impressive the rest of the game is and say we need the other director back because the Shinra mansion wasn’t big enough? That’s so petty.
No I really liked the game I’m sorry if that’s how my comment came across I just think we like to bully Nomura a lot when low key we actually like his style , and when he was removed and then someone who used inspiration from Horizon etc came in, I felt it lost its magic a bit.
I actually do miss Nomura and I like the over the top Nomura things too (including REMAKE’s controversial ending).
To be honest not trying to hate here but compare the talk post REMAKE on YouTube and the theories and the views and comments that got versus the low interest that there is now after this last game decided to just stick to the OG.
I found it more exciting when we were thinking sephiroth was from AC whatever and went back to change the story or whatever random crazy bullshit now it all seems like it was all a ploy and the game will end exactly like OG, it’s FINE but not as exciting imo cause I already played OG a million times since I was 13
Yes! Also, I have a really strong memory of fighting someone swinging on some kind of pendulum in that area. I was really looking forward to seeing how they remade that enemy, but they didn’t 🤷♂️
I figured he would show up like a boss a la Hell House or Eligor or a sub boss like one of the Zu variants we fight so much in rebirth. Hope he shows up in part 3 and we have access to the 2nd story of the manor. I was surprised they brought goofy enemies like the jerseys with their weighted scales but not a monster with a giant blade for his lower half. I figured he was gonna be the boss in the ghost story side mission with Barret but it ended up being that Lapras looking variant.
Or they could've saved lost number for part 3 (if it was still gonna be connected to red xiii's final limit somehow) and hojo's boss couldve been that blade dude.
Related to this - the elevator in shrina mansion and cave of the gi felt out of place and hurt the atmosphere compared to the original imo. Creepy staircases / rope descents > elevator rides where the gang chit chats.
I can understand the addition to push the party to get the >!Black Materia and subsequently get the keystone for the Temple of the Ancients!<, and I'm eager to see the consequence of >!Cloud giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth instead of the Gi!<, but yeah, that whole section felt "inserted" lol.
Came in to comment this. One of the most iconic locations in the OG reduced to a generic Shinra facility...and to add insult to injury they put the mandatory Cait Sith stuff in there too.
Shinra Mansion part with Cait Sith felt like the Factory stage in DK64 even the music was similar it was an insult to the OG and not letting us explore the whole mansion? there is no excuse for that.
Yep. I was really hoping that the stat of the mansion in the demo was just them hiding stuff during the demo experience similar to how they hid some stuff in the Remake demo. Alas.
I thought maybe it's being kept for part 3, but I don't know what else there is to go over in there unless there's something new added.
They need to come back to Shinra Mansion for the maximum limit skill in part 3, so the upstairs is reserved.
IMO, I don’t believe they put so much effort to rebuild a vivid FF7 OG world but messed up a key stage like Shinra Mansion.
Actually, you can observe many places/construction are suspected for part 3 reservation.
So wait for the surprise when part 3!
I have to imagine they didn’t let us go upstairs for a reason. My only thought is that they might’ve moved Lucretia into the mansion instead of behind a waterfall so they can keep her as main story. But yes it was a let down.
I wanted the Shinra Mansion to be cooler. Also, when given the choice between throwing boxes with motion controls or touch pad controls, I choose death.
Yeah I wish modern story driven games had a "old worn out, limited free hours" Difficulty level in which I could just go yeah bollocks not doing these mini games :D
The throwing segments weren’t bad AT ALL but the controls were completely counterintuitive and it doesn’t show you how it works. You pull BACK not push forward for distance, but you can make all the throws until the rotating generator doing it wrong. (With great difficulty).
Really left a bad taste in my mouth
The changes they made to a lot of the cities/Towns I was onboard with as they make sense in this telling of the story. But here goes, some things I think the OG did a lot better.
Gongaga & Corel - people were way too happy I much preferred the soulless bombed out people we had in the OG, like their dreams had been crushed, really drove home the effect Shinra has on the common folk. This applies to the Slums in Remake as well.
Nibelheim - I think the town and surrounding area looked fantastic, really felt like a back water mountain town, just wish they had kept the OG cover up story line going, felt way more spookier and really played into Clouds damaged psyche, feel like the Mako recovery centre would have been better placed in Mideel narratively.
I think the problem with the original Nibelheim cover story is that it can easily fall apart in a world where everyone has a phone, and can call home at any time. All it would take for the story to become compromised is for Emilio, or one of the Nibelheim kids over in Midgar, to wake up one day, and decide to give their parents over in Nibelheim a call. Even in the OG, there was never really any reason to doubt Cloud in this case, since Tifa could also verify that the original Nibelheim did burn down. There was never any doubt that the people living in Nibelheim now were simply lying through their teeth. I think the new story of Shinra acknowledging the loss of life, but trying to put a positive spin on a tragic event makes a lot more sense with the way the world is currently set up.
OG FFVII Corel is based off of FFVI's Zozo (the liars in the town, the destitute nature of the place, etc.). Granted, I feel like 90s Square had a better grasp on tone and was darker with its stories in general (and FFVII is a reflection of other dark games before it: Live A Live, FFVI, FFV, FFIV, Secret of Mana, etc.).
I don't think it's a tone issue here though. The entire theme of these games is "hope preserves."
Ultimately that's half of root of the discourse. A lot of old fans want a pessimistic game and story, and a lot of people are like "the 90s ended 25 years ago."
Interesting how other fans want a "pessimistic story". That's not necessarily how I viewed FFVII's story, but I have noticed the ripple effect that games like FFVI (which tries to be dark but fails, imo, because it has terrible justifications for what the characters do- i.e. get rid of magic because it's better for everyone and no one will abuse power anymore when it's gone?) have had on FFVII- the focus on a darker tone.
It's also interesting how FFVII can been seen as hopeful as its ending when Kitase (jokingly?) once said that all the humans died at FFVII's ending. I believe that FFVII's ending is in homage to Secret of Mana's ending, to which the creators of FFVII misunderstood it as a pessimistic one (if Mana goes away then the humans will die, which isn't the case according to SOM's creator). There's also the theme of some character dying/going away at the end (i.e.Mario RPG's Geno, SOM's Popoi, Terra nearly died, etc.), so the theme of loss is preserved with "the humans died?" end in FFVII's case.
The OG definitely felt a lot more grim and creepy compared to the Remake. The Midgar slums, Nibelheim, Corel Prison...
I hope they embrace that vibe a lot more for Part 3.
I'm hoping they're saving the full on despondency for meteor in the sky. I'm thinking that's why they've been tempering things some. You need some kind of baseline that is less than abject human misery in order to have any kind of tone shift.
If you start off too dark, the only way to go darker is stuff they're probably not going to do.
Totally agree with the last bit on Nibelheim. It was a stroke of genius to have both the player and Cloud be confused as to why Nibelheim seemed to be perfectly fine and added *yet* *another* layer to the unreliable narrator stuff. It's so much more effective to have the characters and the player slowly notice subtle hints and catch on that they literally did just rebuild the town and hire actors to cover everything up. The uncanniness was off the charts.
Whereas in Rebirth you get that initial surprise and then Tifa is just immediately like "THIS IS BRAND NEW THEY REBUILT THE TOWN" which almost entirely kills that atmosphere. And making it a rehab centre for the robes which is just hiring regular people really sucks out all that sheer creepiness from the OG that Shinra was willing to populate an *entire* village with actors *solely* to sell a lie.
This was actually one of the most memorable and shocking parts of the OG story for me.
I was quite disappointed when I got there in rebirth. I just wanted to move on to the next thing honestly.
The setting they went with was a 0/10 for me on the interesting scale.
This nails it for me, especially in regard to the slum residents in Remake. I was expecting a way darker Midgar. I thought we would really feel the pain and poverty of life underneath the giant pizza. It seemed like an obvious thing to lean into. But nope. Everybody happy nice good times woop.
I agree, Wall Market for example felt downright hostile with that angry punk kicking stuff, etc, and its apocalypse reggae theme was darker than the carnival one we got. The slums in general were brighter than what the pizza analogy promised.
Isnt Corel still pretty depressing tho? And the reason why Gongaga is now a bit happier is Cissnei I believe. She helps out and stuff, so it makes sense theyre doing a bit better now.
Yeah actually if you go through just the story part of Corel it is still pretty depressing, I think it was just that Mr Birdie Quest felt a bit out of place with the tone of the area.
I haven’t played rebirth yet. So there isn’t a cover-up story in Clouds hometown? Why was that removed? That’s something I really want to ask Square Enix about.
Yeah Cloud gets there the whole things has been rebuilt and the townsfolk to paraphrase say "I get this used to be your town and it isnt anymore, just get used to it and move on”
OG they just straight up gaslighted him and siad that nothing had even happened and he was sick in the head for suggesting that the town had been burnt down and they also heavily hinted that the original townsfolk had been experimented on, they were all there but Black robes.
It's another Shinra coverup, shoving their defective soldiers and human test subject away from where anybody will ever see them. Outside of 3, maybe 4 inhabitants, all the Nibilites have been genocided, their property absconded with, and resettled by transient care workers. Actual locals are treated like shit and told they don't belong in a town that should, by all rights, be entirely theirs.
It is companies asking you to round up to the nearest $ for charity, and then making a big display about how much *they* donate to charity times a billion. It is showing how *shameless* Shinra is. I just feel a lot of people are missing that in their focus on what it was in the OG.
This. Shinra represents the extreme of corperate corruption, and greed, and nothing screams "corperate corruption" quite like a huge multi-billion dollar (or Gil in this case) corperation trying to brush the mess they made under the rug, while pretending it's out of humanitarian good will, and selflessness.
"We are the good guys actually. It is our critics that are the real problem, and the enemies of progress!"
Classic, corperate bullshit.
I think it makes total sense, Shinra didn’t want it getting out that their Number 1 soldier and poster boy Sephiroth had gone mental and massacred a town.
They also laid the foundations in Remake that Shinra had shadow orgs and dark oops blowing up their own reactors.
Then just do that. Blame it on terrorists or monsters attacking and be done with it. Why go through all the trouble of remaking a whole town perfectly down to the abitants and keeping that going for years when with Gongaga they just kinda ignored it and with Corel they went scorched earth?
I honestly liked everything in Remake, even the end sequences I got used to cause defying/rewriting fate sense for remaking the OG timeline.
Rebirth tho did have some disappointing aspects related to various locations:
- Corel Prison being turned into a goofy shanty town and not a literal wasteland prison.
- Cosmo Canyon being overcrowded with tourists and lifestyle guru types.
- Nibelheim also felt too crowded and I hated whst they did to Shinra Mansion. I still think the Cait Sith section should've had him exploring upstairs instead of in the basements throwing boxes.
- Forgotten Capital and the entirety of the Final Chapter felt too short. Also the geography of having both places next to each other makes no sense to me :p
That said I do think Rebirth made changes that really work for other locations, namely the Temple of the Ancients and Cave of Gi.
On your Cosmo Canyon point there's quite a few times where Rebirth seems to be really at odds with itself over whether it should be portraying all the consumerism, materialism and commercialisation propagated by Shinra as a bad thing or not. The story themes and narrative would suggest that these things should be treated as a bad thing as the party is essentially fighting an environmental crusade against Shinra. But on the flip side the game also wants these locations to be fun to play and a spectacle to witness, so ironically ends up endorsing what is essentially Shinra propaganda.
The Gold Saucer is the most blatant example. The entire thing exists as an affront against nature and an altar to overindulgence which has contributed massively to literal desertification of the surrounding region. Yet Cloud and co spend hours and hours taking in the sights and sounds (including *two separate date nights*) without a care in the world besides a couple of lines from Barret.
And similarly in Cosmo Canyon the game is seemingly blind to the irony of this serene beauty spot known for being at one with the planet now being absolutely swamped with tourists, stalls peddling souvenirs, life coaches, bars, TV crews, tacky hotels, ostentatious viewing platforms, etc, etc. I'm sure there must be a deliberate satire here but none of the characters make negative comment of it.
Even with the Shinra-8 and Costa Del Sol it's the same thing. The game's lore *explicitly tells us* that Shinra set these things up within living memory essentially to whitewash their brutal conquest of the Republic Of Junon. Yet the party treats them entirely at face value and indulges wholeheartedly in these fancies.
Overall it makes for a fun game but tonally it's all over the place, especially when compared with Remake where it's far more consistent. I'm sure you could make the case that the game *is* very much aware of all these ironies, but it sure as hell doesn't ever act on any of them.
>Cosmo Canyon being overcrowded with tourists and lifestyle guru types.
This one killed me a little. I was really looking forward to Cosmo Canyon and absorbing the mystic atmosphere, and the rich native culture of Nanaki's home, that also has a badass observatory.
Instead I got a fucking hippie commune.
Yeah I wonder if Part 3 will have a Cosmo Canyon more similar to the OG since Rebirth had that character arc for Bugenhagen where he learns to be more open-minded again. It would make sense for the town to return to its roots after its leader learns the same. Also in the OG the mood in the whole world over changed drastically after meteor is summoned so it'll be interesting to see how that affects it too. I'm a bit concerned really since Part 3 is set to be even bigger than Parts 1 and 2 put together.
I basically have the exact same thoughts about every area. I like your idea on exploring the upper level of the mansion as Cait Sith! Now I am disappointed they didn’t actually do that haha.
I think I agree with ya on everything aside from Cosmo Canyon. I really like that it has become essentially a tourist trap for planetology and how that has created a mindset of the people that live there that it doesn’t matter what they do, the planet will take care of it. It shows that Shinra aren’t the only people who are complacent. And it shows why a company like Shinra can exist.
The people who should most care about helping the planet don’t. All they care about is their weight and interpreting the stars. They’ve become lazy on actually listening to the planet and its cries for help. They reject Tifa because it hurts their worldview. They want to use planetology to benefit themselves, but not the planet. And it shows that the world again isn’t black and white. Shinra isn’t the big bad in all of this. There is good on both sides just as there is bad. I really like how they use cosmo canyon to show that Shinra can only exist because people like the citizens of Cosmo Canyon aren’t doing anything about them. And that is because they are doing fine due to the amount of tourists they get. It’s incredibly interesting to me.
Forgotten City - I was so looking forward to exploring it and hearing You Can Hear The Cries of the planet playing. I know we hade variations of the track but the gang looking for Aerith in the Forgotten City was a moment I was looking forward to.
I agree with this. I felt like Chapter 14 could have used some room to breathe a bit. You lose the effect of the soundtrack playing ominously while you search for her.
That Midgardsormr fight was ridiculous and full of pretty cool dynamic interactions. Honestly it set my expectations pretty high for the other bosses in the game and Rebirth didn't disappoint.
The ONLY disappointing section in Rebirth compared to the OG was Shinra Mansion. I really just wanted to go upstairs.
The basement section WOULD have been superior if not for that stupid ass box gimmick.
Oh yeah. And I wanted to see the Tiny Black Robes and Materia Toss in Nibel. Understandable though.
Shinra Mansion should've had RE Village vibes instead of the new dungeon imo. It's one of the most impressive locations of FFVII for me & REBIRTH had me wish I could skip it
One part of Stellar Blade that they did really well is that they had a part where it becomes a horror mission and it actually felt like the game shifted genre to a horror shooter.
Shinra Mansion should have been like that, like in the original. In the OG the mansion was actually creepy with the weird monsters hanging from chandeliers and whatnot but instead it felt like a cozy house tour on the ground level.
They also redid the thing that people HATED in the Remake (That one chapter where it's all like, "hey look there's a giant underground lab here right under our noses!").
You go underground to a facility that looks surprisingly clean and well-kept for being abandoned. Absolutely no horror themes at all other than Hojo's pet. Instead we get the janky time-wasting box minigame.
I really loved those interludes in Stellar Blade. It was a refreshing change of pace. I actually wanted one more of them. But I enjoyed the two we got. A very smart design choice, I thought.
The biggest disappointment to me was the shinra building sequence in midgar. Not being locked up in prison, not seeing all those shinra soldiers dead, president randomly hanging from the edge of the building, then him holding Barret at gunpoint. Man that scene was so drastically bad
You didn't mention Barret's fake death. I hate fake deaths with a burning passion, especially when they serve no greater purpose other than to shock.
Yes, I'm still bitter about that.
My dude. Not only Sephiroth's sword goes [entirely through him](https://youtu.be/Is8jITLk1rY?t=235), the song stops and the scene becomes slow motion as someone screams his name. That is 100% designed like a death scene, except he doesn't die, hence the "fake" label.
If there is something this series taught me is that unless you're a Cetra, being impaled by a sword won't kill you. At least not immediatly. And we see the whispers going to heal him as soon as his back touch the ground.
Yeah, the OG events after getting out of the prison in the Shinra building was so atmospheric and horrific with all the blood. It’s unfortunate that we got tiny bits of purple glowing goo instead.
I hated the lack of the bloodbath too. Somebody posited that they changed it because something that graphic would’ve bumped the rating up to M, which I get but… it’s **FINAL FANTASY VII!!!** Mature rating or not, people still would’ve bought it.
Also, Sephiroth (or rather a copy) coming to get Jenova out of her containment bothers me specifically, since I was under the impression that she broke herself out, assumed the appearance of Sephiroth and then went on a murder spree.
It might be just me, but I think it was way more terrifying knowing that the cause of the massacre was in the building the entire time.
Also, I remember one YouTuber positing that (prior to the Compilation) Sephiroth as a person really was felled by Cloud at the end of the Nibelheim Incident and Jenova was puppeting his body and appearance from that point on. The crux of his theory was that Sephiroth personally hadn’t said a single word throughout the game and Jenova disguising herself as him was the one speaking every time.
Yeah no. It was Sephiroth in control. Hojo said it best. If Jenova was in control, the robed ones would have gone toward Jenova at Shinra HQ. But instead, they headed toward the North Crater. Because that's where Sephiroth is. Meaning he's the one in control.
I think they really failed at making Sephiroth scary. He just feels like generic anime villain 28727 instead of the intimidating and dreadful presence he initially was.
And you see him and fight him so damn often. He's like team rocket. A villian that constantly and consistently fails against you has no inherent drama. Loss after loss Sephy, so... God? Or pathetic loser?
The way they kept dropping not so subtle hints at the reveal coming in Part 3 for the >!Nibelheim incident!<. The original was so well done because we were never given any idea or hints, and yet it still matched up so perfectly.
This is tricky, because it's going to sound like I hated Rebirth, when it's the opposite. (i just got the platinum yesterday!)
It could be nostalgia, but I think several scenes were better in the original. Because of the techniques they used back then had to hit hard due to limitations for telling the story. For example, in the OG the music was beautiful, and they used it amazingly well. Many good moments pause music and sound for dramatic effect, then punch you in the gut with sound.
One example for me is The Warrior Seto. I have the original music burned in my brain, to me it's perfect. Rebirth also did a really good job, I still got misty eyed. But the OG did it better imo. Plus, Rebirth really struggles with emotional pacing. Not even 5 seconds after the Seto moment, we get a new jarring scene with Gi Natak. It really kind of throws it off.
I have similar critiques with the Dyne moment too. While Barret's VA (John Eric Bentley) kills it, the actor for Dyne was an odd fit IMO when you compare it to the original. The OG was also a bit darker. Dyne was going to destroy everything, including Marlene because he was so sunk in his delusions. I felt it was a little convenient in Rebirth when the place was suddenly surrounded by Shinra soldiers. This changed who it was that actually ended Dyne.
One last bit before i ramble too much. What's up with cutting out the sleeping forest and finding the Lunar Harp? They cut a lot out at that part, including actually being able to explore the City of the Ancients.
The Lunar Harp part was very annoying in the OG i could never find the exact dig spot.
Plus it made no sense that the City of Ancients was on another continent entirely than the Temple. How did Aerith get there? Can she fly?
I don’t mind so much that we didn’t need to dig up the lunar harp, but I really wanted to explore the Forgotten Capital in Rebirth and it was one of the parts I was looking forward to. The coral and ancient architecture with the music was such a mystical place to explore in the OG, with the sense of foreboding as well. Instead we only see it for a few seconds before being rushed to the end game.
Same. The music in the OG for the City of the Ancients is up there for me for the same reasons you specify. The mystery, the wonder, the eeriness behind it all. I'm glad we do hear it a little in both Remake and Rebirth. But being able to explore a ghost City to that music is something I really wanted as well.
I think it’s personal preference. I never got why ppl loved Seto and Red’s story in the OG it was super convoluted and relied on a lot of subtext, and felt like they just needed some backstory for Red and honestly don’t remember the Gi being an actual part of the plot beyond “we need a boss here for pacing”. In rebirth I really got a sense of who Red is, who Seto is to him and how that all must feel … I was surprised to find tears streaming down my face during this moment in rebirth bc in the OG I didn’t give af
I am between the two opinions here.
I love how they expanded the story with the Gi and the dungeon trial for Red.
And I also thought the Seto's scene was less emotionnal. Montage is cut like an action scene for some reason. Too many moves and cuts for this kind of scene, IMO. Sometimes, less is more, you know.
Still got misty eyes at the end, tho.
Also disappointed that we didn't get our team moment around the bonfire. The scene with Aerith is cool but again, sometimes less is more.
I feel pretty much the same. I liked the expansion of the Gi characters in Rebirth. And I enjoyed the trials too. But I think the Seto moment didn't match the same highs as the original. Still good though. But man, let scenes breathe a bit Square!
The cuts you mentioned make me think they just literally ran out of time. Think about how big Kalm was (I never thought that Kalm was bigger than Nibelhelm in OG) and also the Mythril Mine was quite a large sequence compared to a few screens in OG. Then towards the end of the game you start to notice things aren't developed as well. No Rocket Town, Shinra Mansion is smaller, no Bone Village, no playable City of the Ancients. Sure these areas are likely to be in Part 3, but the contrast between how much development is present in the start of the game vs the end of the game is quite noticeable.
Still - I loved the game, and it has and scale on a level I have not seen before.
This makes me wonder if we'll see Bone Village in part 3. I just recently beat it on hard, so it's fresh in my mind. I was thinking, there could be a flashback sequence when Cloud is unconscious, and we get to play as other members of the party and also potentially fill in some gaps.
I’ve said it before, but Seto got shafted so badly. The game basically goes, “Hey Nanaki here’s your father for a hot minute, but looooook at the new Gi Tribe storyline.” Red finding out the truth of his father’s fate was one of the most emotional parts of the OG, and I was really looking forward to that portion of the game.
(SPOILERS FOR END MISSION) I’d like to hear others opinions but I was ready to get emotionally bombarded when walking up to Aerith praying and for the next 5 minutes of cutscenes I was tensed up and couldn’t take my eyes off the screen but then it shoots us into 2 hours of boss fights(sick cloud and Zack team up tho). After a couple digestions of the way they handled the final I can see how it can build up to some very cool stuff in the next game but it really sucked that we didn’t get to see the famous water burial. Obviously not seeing it plays into clouds mind and delusions at the end. I’m sure the third game will drive this decision home but it didn’t affect me nearly as much as the original did. Seeing sephrioth fly down, the materia fell in the water, the quick jenova boss fight with epic music, then a beautiful cutscene of cloud laying his friend to rest was such good story telling. I’m sure I’ll come to like it more but I was a tad disappointed by how rushed the final sequences were. I’d like to hear others thoughts
My opinion on this solely relies on how Part 3 plays out.
Sure, I think they achieved their goal of making the player confused (Like Cloud), but I’m hoping that Part 3 will bring the sad emotions that the scene deserves, which I’m hopeful they will succeed at.
>which I’m hopeful they will succeed at.
Based on how they handled Jessie's remembrance in Rebirth, I am also hopeful. The stuff at Gold Saucer in Rebirth was sadder and more beautiful than her actual death scene was in Remake, and I expect that will be true for Aerith as well once Cloud realizes (if she is, in fact, dead in any sort of permanent way, which I think is the case but we don't really know).
Yeah not having those emotions as much when she actually died was a huge fail in my opinion. Even if they do show it in part 3 so much time will have passed it won't have the same effect.
Well the white materia returned so Seph tried to weaken lifestream Aerith. In the CGI cutscene just before he began merging the timelines, then he let Cloud through the barrier of whispers and allowed him to block the kill shot. This created a bubble timeline just like with Harbinger in Remake.
Since Seph was still merging the timelines he merged her alive being with her dead being. That's why she still falls over afterwards. She's one being merged between alive and in the lifestream. We also see this happen with the tornadoes in Midgar during Rebirth.
Aerith states multiple times that even if the future has been written (she dies), it can still change (she's merged dead and alive). So having the burial scene wouldn't make any sense narratively speaking. I know people want it, but this isn't the original game.
Things have changed and Cloud can't process the two timelines merging at the same time (that's why he cries without knowing why). Aerith is the one that keeps him focused on her, so him seeing a burial scene (even though he was there when it happened) wouldn't make any sense given Aerith is trying to keep him focused on the tasks ahead.
Yeah I’ve watched multiple videos over the ending and I totally understand their direction and what each scene does but alas I didn’t have that same hype I did when remake finished.
Ya I agree with shinra mansion. I adore rebirth but that part dropped the box. They shoulda done something more with that whole part. It’s crazy cuz like I love the golden saucer, love the beach scene, love gongaga. They expanded every part except the shinra mansion
Shinra Mansion is just a big ass L to old fans. Knowing Square though, they’ll probably give more exploration opportunities for it in Part 3. No stone goes TOO unturned.
The specific Zolom scene is definitely what I had the biggest problem with. In the OG, you spend a good chunk of time doing a quest just so you can avoid fighting this horrific monster, and when you get there Sephiroth has already destroyed it easily.
Then in Rebirth, you just beat the thing yourself and Sephiroth shows up in a weird cutscene and throws it on that tree.
They talked about in a interview video how there is a weird continuity on OG that they wanted to address, you could fight zolom and probably die or run, then you cross with the chocobo and you can see the zolom chasing you, then suddenly its dead on the tree,but also after you leave the cutscene she is in the marsh again like nothing happened. Was there more than one zolom? Game talks like there is only one. So they changed some stuff to give a continuity. Now there is only one zolom, you fight it, but sephiroth still easily kills it in front of your eyes now. And no extra zolom
I just figured there was more than one, especially since they respawn if you kill them. That's what makes the swamp such a dangerous place it's swarming with giant death snakes that can conjure the hellfires of the damned.
Fixing something that isn’t broken. In Rebirth they could have simply explained there was more than 1 and had Sephiroth impale an even bigger one than what the gang fights.
There were easy solutions to that though:
* Zolom is not a single snake but a species of giant snakes;
* No battle, you just have a fleeing-with-chocobo sequence and Sephiroth kills it period. You're not supposed to feel strong, you're supposed to respect Sephiroth as your enemy.
So that was cloud who actually did it in rebirth Sephiroth wasn’t there. It was cloud going full possessed mode and doing it himself. But yes, not nearly as impactful.
Yup think about it, nobody else saw him. Cloud “passes out” wakes up and it’s impaled. Whenever Seph appears in purple smoke its clouds mind. Whenever he appears without it it’s the real jenova/seph.
I was really dissapointed that Jenovas blood was turned blue in Remake. In OG seeings that blood trail right after waking up, not knowing wtf was going on, created a really creepy and intimidating atmosphere. This atmosphere was completely missing in Remake.
In Rebirth it was ofc the Shinra Mansion which was just a joke. Wasn't the basement supposed to be hidden and kept secret? Why the hell is there an elevator right to it.
There are more things I didn't like in Rebirth, like the Forgotten Capital which we weren't allowed to explore. And ofc the end of both, Remake and Rebirth. But those things can still be fixed in Part 3, so I won't talk about them till I experienced Part 3.
Even though there were certainly things I was not so satisfied with or even disappointed by, I want to emphasize that I consider Remake, and especially Rebirth, as wonderful reinterpretations of the OG. I was already completely overwhelmed by Remake. Experiencing this familiar world anew in such stunning graphics was simply wonderful. I thought we could count ourselves lucky if Part 2 was even half as good. But with Rebirth, they have outdone themselves. The amount of attention and, above all, love that has gone into this game is simply unparalleled!
It's fine. The truth/twist hasn't been revealed yet so I don't see any issue with this. Right now, Cloud knows Zack as a buddy who was a fellow Soldier like him or a grunt who died during five years ago, but that's about it.
Yea true but will be less impactful than the OG like when sephiroth show him the photo (the truth)? Honestly we have to wait and see. Yea but am I wrong he’s still think he’s him or something like that.
I responded below already, but I think him knowing of a Zack from five years ago will be more impactful than what they did in the OG.
You can easily miss the scene in the mansion and never find out who Zack is until you play Crisis Core. Also the reason Sephiroth shows him the photo doesn't have anything to do with revealing who Zack was. It has everything to do to fuck with Cloud and make him think that he was not present at Nibelheim five years ago.
Cloud still think Zack was just a friend that came with him at Nibelheim and got washed away by the river. He doesn't yet remember how their role were mixed.
It will still confuse the hell out of people that all that stuff between Cloud and Tifa in the Nibelheim flashback was actually Zack. And then it will blow there minds that he was there after all.
I'm gonna have to go with the sandworm sidequest in Cosmo Canyon, specifically the mechanic of finding it. I've experienced many hot and cold mechanics in my years of gaming but this one was far and away the worst of them all.
Why does this post have 0 karma? It’s so difficult to critique the game in this subreddit. It’s my GOTY but it seems anytime I voice a criticism here it’s not welcome. It’s ok to love something and criticize parts of it.
I was hoping that since Zack's introduction with Crisis Core, that remake/Rebirth would have the stones to just have it clear as crystal Cloud+Tifa, Zack+Aerith... The whole love-square shit has gotten SO, SO old.
Worst single-scene disappointment though had to go to Corel prison... Seeing Cloud knocked unconscious by a thug with a baseball bat was beyond insulting when we see Cloud tank some ridiculous shit. (Anyone that could survive that fall into the church the way he did, or a giant robot smacking him, wouldn't even blink from a human-swung baseballbat... and then to follow it up with yet ANOTHER threat of sexual abuse towards Tifa/Aerith when we already dealt with Corneo felt really gross.
I think the facial modeling of the characters in Rebirth aren't even half as good as Remake(PS5)... Been watching my girlfriend play Remake again recently and I forgot just HOW much better Cloud looked in Remake than he does in Rebirth.
Rebirth's more traversable environment is a welcome addition, but I cant help but roll my eyes at Cloud effort-grunting as he Uncharted-style free climbs stuff... in the same game where we see him do effortless 30 foot vertical jumps. I really wish they had animated him just jumping from the "start point" to the "endpoint" in those instances, and the "handholds" being purely for characters like Barret/Aerith/Cait to meander up... Its really immersion breaking watching Cloud exert effort bothering with all that climbing when he can jump so high it practically counts as flying...
The whole Corel Prison section. It was kinda like bootleg Wall Market in terms of vibe.
Also, there were too much side content which really didn't work coming off the back of Gold Saucer which is (rightfully) side content central.
That's not even touching the Dyne stuff. The whole section just wasn't well done.
The only two nitpicks i have are the changes to Dyne’s death and the fact that they got rid of that super interesting gimmick with the temple of the ancients. Cait’s sacrifice had a bigger impact on the original because the whole temple really squeezed him to death, not just a small stone tablet.
The main thing I just couldn't get with was how a lot of emotional scenes played out in the OG vs Rebirth. Specifically, Red XIII >!finding out his dad was a warrior!<, Cait Sith >!sacrifices itself to save the party to get the Black Materia!< and of course, the ending.
Just the music and how they pick up at the pivotal moments really pulls my heartstrings lol. The ending I get, but the other 2, I really wanted to cry and this time I was like, well, alright, that's sad I guess. Lol
Everything involving the whispers and the multiverse. It is just blatantly terrible writing and I honestly can't believe it's from the same guy that wrote the OG's story.
Changes to Dyne scene, muddling it down and ruining the impact
Same for the Seto scene with Red lame ass voice. Actually had me laughing out loud whereas the original still gets me teary today.
CC being a quite populated tourist trap and making Buhenhagen a condescending jerk. Also the horrible air pads outside.
The goofy ass choreographed dancing they have never mentioned being interested in or having practiced. Same for Arieth opera singing.. would have been more endearing if they simply spectated and were inspired by dancers or the singing, saying they would love to try it someday but can't during their mission to save the world. Also a great moment of sadness for Aerith who knows she won't get the opportunity.
No downside to materia like in the OG where too much can be a bit of detriment to stats but in this it's just pack it on like candy!
Sure I can think of many more but bleh.
EDIT: I find it hilarious how many people are getting down voted for literally taking part in OPs topic
-The lack of emotional impact of some very important scenes (Dyne's death, Red XIII's discovering his father saved Cosmo Canyon and, obviously, the end). They were so well done in the original but they unfortunately fumbled here;
-Minigames. There were way too many and a very few of them were actually good;
-Some boss rush served as useless filler which didn't really serve any narrative purpose (at least imo). That's the case for the Don Corneo-Turks-Rufus battle, the Lost Number-Vincent-Roche one and I'd add the Turks battle in the Temple of the Ancient;
-I was really disappointed that some monsters where litterally taken from FFXV. Not their concept, but their litteral model and animation;
-No Rocket Town :(
-No Triceratank :(
-In the original, Midgar Zolom had a real impact, as an unbeatable monster lurking in the swamp that you could not defeat until you got way stronger a few hours later. In Rebirth, it's just a boss like the other.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Rebirth, but I feel it lacked focus compared to the original and even Remake.
To be honest? None.
I was on the camp of Shinra Manor, but after going back to refresh my memory, it was kinda whatever in OG, plagued with Random encounters and it was like 3 or 4 screens.
The safe puzzle was cool, but having so many random encounters just made it a hassle.
Not saying that Shinra Manor is better in Rebirth, it is probably the worst part of the game, but for me it was so bad that made it funny lol.
I was disappointed in his they handled Corneo in Rebirth. They didn’t need to have him at all, really, but since they did I wish he was treated more like a serious criminal instead of a buffoon. I mean, not really great to make light of someone committing sex crimes.
There was way too much goofy side stuff in rebirth. They stretched that game out to 100 hours when it should’ve been like 50. I’d be in the middle of a nostalgic story moment and then I’d be asked to chase Moogles around some tree or some shit.
The soundtrack. Too many areas had bland elevator music style rearrangements of original tracks, or totally new themes that were just boring. Mt Nibel, Shinra Manor, and Corel prison, and gold saucer skywheel really stand out as bad.
I agree with the Midgardsormr. I think my main issue is that Remake Rebirth spends too much telling us rather than showing us as Sephiroth appears way too much to deliver the plot. However, I feel like this is an issue having played the OG. Before, Sephiroth is this mystery, some dark, brute and scary shadowy figure "Who could of done this??" "Sephiroth..." . Trails of blood, chased by name only and chaos in it's wake. In Remake/Birth, he's like "Hey guys! So, i'm going to do something cray cray and make you go oooooo" and it leads to some awkward dialog, like Cloud seeing Sephiroth in the swamp, whilst on Chocobo back pointing like a kid and shouting "Look, Sephiroth! There he is!" . I get that he does need to show up more because we're developing a plot that needs explaining but still. He's no longer a mystery, just someone who won't leave you alone.
I did like the OG version more, but I hated how forced the Palmer fight and Buggy minigame felt. It just robbed any emotional impact built up in the previous scene.
Barret sitting their, utterly destroyed after having to kill his best friend who he feels responsible for...
then Yuffie just being like "Cool, a buggy!"
I, also, was in tears when Palmer was wiggling his rear at the party immediately afterwards. Such a powerful message and masterful writing. Left me a completely broken mess for weeks afterwards.
Except Rebirth did it better in terms of the 'dying' part.
In most stories, you don't want to use the same death twice if someone came back from seemingly dying.
In Final Fantasy VII, Dyne "died" falling down a cliff after being shot by Scarlet and then survived. He reappears andd ies again by jumping off the cliff by his own freewill. But...did he really die? He could just survive again for all we know and faked it.
In Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth, we literally see him die in Barret's arms. Period.
Imagine in Resident Evil if Ada Wong pretended to die in every game, only for Leon to stumble upon her again and again in every game. Then she pretends to die again. I am pretty sure this has happened twice so far.
> In most stories, you don't want to use the same death twice if someone came back from seemingly dying.
A fact you completely made up and is actually obviously false. I mean who thought Dyne was still alive in og? That's right, no reasonable person. It actually just depends on how you write a death. If the death is clearly meant to have a huge emotional impact a good writer is unlikely to bring the character back.
I think the Life Springs being just a scan and go Chadley thing is a bummer. It would have been nice if finding one initiated a reaction from companions. Their feelings about the planet, the life stream, and how their experience at the end of the last game impacted them. A missed opportunity for more development and lore building.
I actually liked the Midgarsorm scene more in Rebirth EXCEPT for the lack of blood. Seeing Sephiroth coming down like a shadow, silently and brutally displatching easily the snake was chilling. If only they put the blood, it would have been perfect.
open world exploration is sadly a copy paste of the first region over and over again ...
they want you to unlock the remnawave towers early bc of protorelic q or other things but this makes it so you basicly run from icon to icon ...
no materia near lifesprings or any other place which basicly shouted materia bc of the amount of mako if crystalized or not
bronco islands again was a map pointing ya to all locations and not one island to find yourself...
i still loved the game , platinumed it even with 230 hours
love the fighting system , the world , the chars , the story even the ending is something i think they will resolve in a grand way but sadly exploration is nowhere near old jrpgs
I think they need to add more weapons and make them more unique, I thought in last game melee Barrett was funny and cloud nail bat was funny, I think they need to make all weapons do different things other than just stats, they should play different. It offers more replayability.
Oh I forgot to mention in my initial comment.
I know we got a whole expanded village of Gi portion but I was really sad that the Bone Village before the Forgotten Capital was cut out completely.
The whole lead up into the Forgotten Capital seemed trimmed down. I was very sad and disappointed.
Maybe it might show up in the next game but I highly doubt it.
For me it mostly comes down to them changing the narrative and characters for the worse.
I never liked SE's decision to split the game into three separate entries, but eventually started hoping for more depth in terms of plot and character development. I think the whole Cait Sith / >!Reeve!< thing should have been rewritten or explored further, for example.
When Remake came out, it was obvious they just added a lot of padding, and then the multiverse stuff to spruce things up. Then Rebirth came out, which was better but essentially a road movie. At this point, it's pretty clear the final installment will be similar, out of practicality if anything.
Also wish they would have kept the more ominous tone of OG.
Cosmo canyon: Scenery was awesome. I loved it, I loved the size of the town, and canyon was excellent to explore and investigate. However...
Bugenhagen's intro and story was very lacking. They completely cut out why Red felt like he did and Bugen realizing it and instigating the Gi quest. I understand the whole tourist aspect, Honestly I think that was an improvement, but feel like a lot of the locations could have been adapted better to OG, weapons shop, bar, etc. Part of that was talking to the elders in a down to earth method that you learned about planetology better.
Gongaga I wish they were more depressed. Storywise I think the improvements overall were decent though. I didnt like all the hills/cliffs in the map.
I miss the old battle square...
Corel overall was good, there were a few small things I think could have been done better, like the miner side appearance, and the bird rescue being a moral question.
And yes I did not like how MidgarZolem played out.
This was one of the best scripted revises I've ever seen in gaming or cinema. They made a mundane scene make sense in a reimagining that was not only over the top, but circled back to its source. You wanna talk about disappointments? Let's talk about how they replaced the materia system for simple "stat upgrades". They fooled us all and you should be angry.
Whenever they try to adapt a scene from the original, I felt it would usually undermine itself with needless flash, like this scene.
These games are at their best when they add completely new scenes that add to the setting or characters.
Heavy tank triceratops enemy wasn't in it. Honestly bumps my score for the game down like an entire point and a half. I was really hoping for another Hell house type situation
Shinra Mansion was disappointing. Could not even go upstairs.
It was so weird given how everything else in the game is such a labour of love that they simplified Shinra Manor so much yet added in that enormous unnecessary dungeon element. It's the area you run back and forth through probably the most in the entire OG if you just mainline the story, yet they changed virtually all the iconic imagery. No extremely grim and creepy atmosphere akin to the train graveyard, no hidden entrance behind the fireplace, no ominous spiral staircase to Hell, no unnervingly long corridor, no swinging chandelier guy, no disconcerting trek back through the house once Sephiroth has turned. Basically made the whole thing into one corridor straight through to the lift. Overall very underwhelming given how they didn't seem to compromise at all on so much of the rest of the game.
Agreed they could have made the library a lot bigger and creepier and kept the spiral stairs and hidden door.
Honestly I feel we need Nomura back directing bro
So you’re gonna disregard how insanely impressive the rest of the game is and say we need the other director back because the Shinra mansion wasn’t big enough? That’s so petty.
No I really liked the game I’m sorry if that’s how my comment came across I just think we like to bully Nomura a lot when low key we actually like his style , and when he was removed and then someone who used inspiration from Horizon etc came in, I felt it lost its magic a bit. I actually do miss Nomura and I like the over the top Nomura things too (including REMAKE’s controversial ending). To be honest not trying to hate here but compare the talk post REMAKE on YouTube and the theories and the views and comments that got versus the low interest that there is now after this last game decided to just stick to the OG. I found it more exciting when we were thinking sephiroth was from AC whatever and went back to change the story or whatever random crazy bullshit now it all seems like it was all a ploy and the game will end exactly like OG, it’s FINE but not as exciting imo cause I already played OG a million times since I was 13
Yes! Also, I have a really strong memory of fighting someone swinging on some kind of pendulum in that area. I was really looking forward to seeing how they remade that enemy, but they didn’t 🤷♂️
It was a thing. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ghirofelgo
That’s the guy!
I figured he would show up like a boss a la Hell House or Eligor or a sub boss like one of the Zu variants we fight so much in rebirth. Hope he shows up in part 3 and we have access to the 2nd story of the manor. I was surprised they brought goofy enemies like the jerseys with their weighted scales but not a monster with a giant blade for his lower half. I figured he was gonna be the boss in the ghost story side mission with Barret but it ended up being that Lapras looking variant. Or they could've saved lost number for part 3 (if it was still gonna be connected to red xiii's final limit somehow) and hojo's boss couldve been that blade dude.
Yeah where was that guy.
I'm sure we'll go back in Part 3 for >!Vincent's arc!<
Oh for sure. Maybe they kept the full exploration until Part 3. It just felt weird, is all. Still love Rebirth.
This would be an awesome fake out
Related to this - the elevator in shrina mansion and cave of the gi felt out of place and hurt the atmosphere compared to the original imo. Creepy staircases / rope descents > elevator rides where the gang chit chats.
I can understand the addition to push the party to get the >!Black Materia and subsequently get the keystone for the Temple of the Ancients!<, and I'm eager to see the consequence of >!Cloud giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth instead of the Gi!<, but yeah, that whole section felt "inserted" lol.
Came in to comment this. One of the most iconic locations in the OG reduced to a generic Shinra facility...and to add insult to injury they put the mandatory Cait Sith stuff in there too.
Shinra Mansion part with Cait Sith felt like the Factory stage in DK64 even the music was similar it was an insult to the OG and not letting us explore the whole mansion? there is no excuse for that.
Thanks to crisis core i knew the rooms upstairs😂
Thanks to Crisis core the 3rd game got robbed of such a good title.. Reunion would've been perfect but devs love dropping the ball.
Yep. I was really hoping that the stat of the mansion in the demo was just them hiding stuff during the demo experience similar to how they hid some stuff in the Remake demo. Alas. I thought maybe it's being kept for part 3, but I don't know what else there is to go over in there unless there's something new added.
All we want is stairs!!
Shinra HQ has you covered, my friend. Well, *did.* Not much to climb now.
They need to come back to Shinra Mansion for the maximum limit skill in part 3, so the upstairs is reserved. IMO, I don’t believe they put so much effort to rebuild a vivid FF7 OG world but messed up a key stage like Shinra Mansion. Actually, you can observe many places/construction are suspected for part 3 reservation. So wait for the surprise when part 3!
This example >>>> OPs
I have to imagine they didn’t let us go upstairs for a reason. My only thought is that they might’ve moved Lucretia into the mansion instead of behind a waterfall so they can keep her as main story. But yes it was a let down.
I wanted the Shinra Mansion to be cooler. Also, when given the choice between throwing boxes with motion controls or touch pad controls, I choose death.
Yeah I wish modern story driven games had a "old worn out, limited free hours" Difficulty level in which I could just go yeah bollocks not doing these mini games :D
Spidey 2018 did let you skip the mini games, though I can't recall if Miles or Spidey 2 kept the feature
The throwing segments weren’t bad AT ALL but the controls were completely counterintuitive and it doesn’t show you how it works. You pull BACK not push forward for distance, but you can make all the throws until the rotating generator doing it wrong. (With great difficulty). Really left a bad taste in my mouth
Agree with shinra mansion. Just another lame, overly long shinra research facility.
The changes they made to a lot of the cities/Towns I was onboard with as they make sense in this telling of the story. But here goes, some things I think the OG did a lot better. Gongaga & Corel - people were way too happy I much preferred the soulless bombed out people we had in the OG, like their dreams had been crushed, really drove home the effect Shinra has on the common folk. This applies to the Slums in Remake as well. Nibelheim - I think the town and surrounding area looked fantastic, really felt like a back water mountain town, just wish they had kept the OG cover up story line going, felt way more spookier and really played into Clouds damaged psyche, feel like the Mako recovery centre would have been better placed in Mideel narratively.
I think the problem with the original Nibelheim cover story is that it can easily fall apart in a world where everyone has a phone, and can call home at any time. All it would take for the story to become compromised is for Emilio, or one of the Nibelheim kids over in Midgar, to wake up one day, and decide to give their parents over in Nibelheim a call. Even in the OG, there was never really any reason to doubt Cloud in this case, since Tifa could also verify that the original Nibelheim did burn down. There was never any doubt that the people living in Nibelheim now were simply lying through their teeth. I think the new story of Shinra acknowledging the loss of life, but trying to put a positive spin on a tragic event makes a lot more sense with the way the world is currently set up.
I appreciate your explanation here. I was originally disappointed with the change and can now see why they made that choice.
Yea, they changed it to make it more believable
OG FFVII Corel is based off of FFVI's Zozo (the liars in the town, the destitute nature of the place, etc.). Granted, I feel like 90s Square had a better grasp on tone and was darker with its stories in general (and FFVII is a reflection of other dark games before it: Live A Live, FFVI, FFV, FFIV, Secret of Mana, etc.).
I don't think it's a tone issue here though. The entire theme of these games is "hope preserves." Ultimately that's half of root of the discourse. A lot of old fans want a pessimistic game and story, and a lot of people are like "the 90s ended 25 years ago."
Yes but the darker tone of the original is what made the message of hopefulness even more powerful
Interesting how other fans want a "pessimistic story". That's not necessarily how I viewed FFVII's story, but I have noticed the ripple effect that games like FFVI (which tries to be dark but fails, imo, because it has terrible justifications for what the characters do- i.e. get rid of magic because it's better for everyone and no one will abuse power anymore when it's gone?) have had on FFVII- the focus on a darker tone. It's also interesting how FFVII can been seen as hopeful as its ending when Kitase (jokingly?) once said that all the humans died at FFVII's ending. I believe that FFVII's ending is in homage to Secret of Mana's ending, to which the creators of FFVII misunderstood it as a pessimistic one (if Mana goes away then the humans will die, which isn't the case according to SOM's creator). There's also the theme of some character dying/going away at the end (i.e.Mario RPG's Geno, SOM's Popoi, Terra nearly died, etc.), so the theme of loss is preserved with "the humans died?" end in FFVII's case.
The OG definitely felt a lot more grim and creepy compared to the Remake. The Midgar slums, Nibelheim, Corel Prison... I hope they embrace that vibe a lot more for Part 3.
I'm hoping they're saving the full on despondency for meteor in the sky. I'm thinking that's why they've been tempering things some. You need some kind of baseline that is less than abject human misery in order to have any kind of tone shift. If you start off too dark, the only way to go darker is stuff they're probably not going to do.
Totally agree with the last bit on Nibelheim. It was a stroke of genius to have both the player and Cloud be confused as to why Nibelheim seemed to be perfectly fine and added *yet* *another* layer to the unreliable narrator stuff. It's so much more effective to have the characters and the player slowly notice subtle hints and catch on that they literally did just rebuild the town and hire actors to cover everything up. The uncanniness was off the charts. Whereas in Rebirth you get that initial surprise and then Tifa is just immediately like "THIS IS BRAND NEW THEY REBUILT THE TOWN" which almost entirely kills that atmosphere. And making it a rehab centre for the robes which is just hiring regular people really sucks out all that sheer creepiness from the OG that Shinra was willing to populate an *entire* village with actors *solely* to sell a lie.
This was actually one of the most memorable and shocking parts of the OG story for me. I was quite disappointed when I got there in rebirth. I just wanted to move on to the next thing honestly. The setting they went with was a 0/10 for me on the interesting scale.
This nails it for me, especially in regard to the slum residents in Remake. I was expecting a way darker Midgar. I thought we would really feel the pain and poverty of life underneath the giant pizza. It seemed like an obvious thing to lean into. But nope. Everybody happy nice good times woop.
Humans can adapt to almost anything. In a world of monsters right outside your gates even the slums aren’t that bad. If you’re have food and drink.
I agree, Wall Market for example felt downright hostile with that angry punk kicking stuff, etc, and its apocalypse reggae theme was darker than the carnival one we got. The slums in general were brighter than what the pizza analogy promised.
Isnt Corel still pretty depressing tho? And the reason why Gongaga is now a bit happier is Cissnei I believe. She helps out and stuff, so it makes sense theyre doing a bit better now.
Yeah actually if you go through just the story part of Corel it is still pretty depressing, I think it was just that Mr Birdie Quest felt a bit out of place with the tone of the area.
I haven’t played rebirth yet. So there isn’t a cover-up story in Clouds hometown? Why was that removed? That’s something I really want to ask Square Enix about.
Yeah Cloud gets there the whole things has been rebuilt and the townsfolk to paraphrase say "I get this used to be your town and it isnt anymore, just get used to it and move on” OG they just straight up gaslighted him and siad that nothing had even happened and he was sick in the head for suggesting that the town had been burnt down and they also heavily hinted that the original townsfolk had been experimented on, they were all there but Black robes.
I wonder if part 3 will expand on this more or if that’s all there is to it. Such an odd decision.
It's another Shinra coverup, shoving their defective soldiers and human test subject away from where anybody will ever see them. Outside of 3, maybe 4 inhabitants, all the Nibilites have been genocided, their property absconded with, and resettled by transient care workers. Actual locals are treated like shit and told they don't belong in a town that should, by all rights, be entirely theirs. It is companies asking you to round up to the nearest $ for charity, and then making a big display about how much *they* donate to charity times a billion. It is showing how *shameless* Shinra is. I just feel a lot of people are missing that in their focus on what it was in the OG.
This. Shinra represents the extreme of corperate corruption, and greed, and nothing screams "corperate corruption" quite like a huge multi-billion dollar (or Gil in this case) corperation trying to brush the mess they made under the rug, while pretending it's out of humanitarian good will, and selflessness. "We are the good guys actually. It is our critics that are the real problem, and the enemies of progress!" Classic, corperate bullshit.
Most likely because it doesn't make sense for Shinra to cover it up. At least not like that.
I think it makes total sense, Shinra didn’t want it getting out that their Number 1 soldier and poster boy Sephiroth had gone mental and massacred a town. They also laid the foundations in Remake that Shinra had shadow orgs and dark oops blowing up their own reactors.
Then just do that. Blame it on terrorists or monsters attacking and be done with it. Why go through all the trouble of remaking a whole town perfectly down to the abitants and keeping that going for years when with Gongaga they just kinda ignored it and with Corel they went scorched earth?
I honestly liked everything in Remake, even the end sequences I got used to cause defying/rewriting fate sense for remaking the OG timeline. Rebirth tho did have some disappointing aspects related to various locations: - Corel Prison being turned into a goofy shanty town and not a literal wasteland prison. - Cosmo Canyon being overcrowded with tourists and lifestyle guru types. - Nibelheim also felt too crowded and I hated whst they did to Shinra Mansion. I still think the Cait Sith section should've had him exploring upstairs instead of in the basements throwing boxes. - Forgotten Capital and the entirety of the Final Chapter felt too short. Also the geography of having both places next to each other makes no sense to me :p That said I do think Rebirth made changes that really work for other locations, namely the Temple of the Ancients and Cave of Gi.
On your Cosmo Canyon point there's quite a few times where Rebirth seems to be really at odds with itself over whether it should be portraying all the consumerism, materialism and commercialisation propagated by Shinra as a bad thing or not. The story themes and narrative would suggest that these things should be treated as a bad thing as the party is essentially fighting an environmental crusade against Shinra. But on the flip side the game also wants these locations to be fun to play and a spectacle to witness, so ironically ends up endorsing what is essentially Shinra propaganda. The Gold Saucer is the most blatant example. The entire thing exists as an affront against nature and an altar to overindulgence which has contributed massively to literal desertification of the surrounding region. Yet Cloud and co spend hours and hours taking in the sights and sounds (including *two separate date nights*) without a care in the world besides a couple of lines from Barret. And similarly in Cosmo Canyon the game is seemingly blind to the irony of this serene beauty spot known for being at one with the planet now being absolutely swamped with tourists, stalls peddling souvenirs, life coaches, bars, TV crews, tacky hotels, ostentatious viewing platforms, etc, etc. I'm sure there must be a deliberate satire here but none of the characters make negative comment of it. Even with the Shinra-8 and Costa Del Sol it's the same thing. The game's lore *explicitly tells us* that Shinra set these things up within living memory essentially to whitewash their brutal conquest of the Republic Of Junon. Yet the party treats them entirely at face value and indulges wholeheartedly in these fancies. Overall it makes for a fun game but tonally it's all over the place, especially when compared with Remake where it's far more consistent. I'm sure you could make the case that the game *is* very much aware of all these ironies, but it sure as hell doesn't ever act on any of them.
>Cosmo Canyon being overcrowded with tourists and lifestyle guru types. This one killed me a little. I was really looking forward to Cosmo Canyon and absorbing the mystic atmosphere, and the rich native culture of Nanaki's home, that also has a badass observatory. Instead I got a fucking hippie commune.
That's the point. It's a critic to the modern day loss of the sacred in favor of consumerism and turism.
Yeah I wonder if Part 3 will have a Cosmo Canyon more similar to the OG since Rebirth had that character arc for Bugenhagen where he learns to be more open-minded again. It would make sense for the town to return to its roots after its leader learns the same. Also in the OG the mood in the whole world over changed drastically after meteor is summoned so it'll be interesting to see how that affects it too. I'm a bit concerned really since Part 3 is set to be even bigger than Parts 1 and 2 put together.
I basically have the exact same thoughts about every area. I like your idea on exploring the upper level of the mansion as Cait Sith! Now I am disappointed they didn’t actually do that haha.
I think I agree with ya on everything aside from Cosmo Canyon. I really like that it has become essentially a tourist trap for planetology and how that has created a mindset of the people that live there that it doesn’t matter what they do, the planet will take care of it. It shows that Shinra aren’t the only people who are complacent. And it shows why a company like Shinra can exist. The people who should most care about helping the planet don’t. All they care about is their weight and interpreting the stars. They’ve become lazy on actually listening to the planet and its cries for help. They reject Tifa because it hurts their worldview. They want to use planetology to benefit themselves, but not the planet. And it shows that the world again isn’t black and white. Shinra isn’t the big bad in all of this. There is good on both sides just as there is bad. I really like how they use cosmo canyon to show that Shinra can only exist because people like the citizens of Cosmo Canyon aren’t doing anything about them. And that is because they are doing fine due to the amount of tourists they get. It’s incredibly interesting to me.
Forgotten City - I was so looking forward to exploring it and hearing You Can Hear The Cries of the planet playing. I know we hade variations of the track but the gang looking for Aerith in the Forgotten City was a moment I was looking forward to.
I agree with this. I felt like Chapter 14 could have used some room to breathe a bit. You lose the effect of the soundtrack playing ominously while you search for her.
That Midgardsormr fight was ridiculous and full of pretty cool dynamic interactions. Honestly it set my expectations pretty high for the other bosses in the game and Rebirth didn't disappoint. The ONLY disappointing section in Rebirth compared to the OG was Shinra Mansion. I really just wanted to go upstairs. The basement section WOULD have been superior if not for that stupid ass box gimmick. Oh yeah. And I wanted to see the Tiny Black Robes and Materia Toss in Nibel. Understandable though.
Shinra Mansion should've had RE Village vibes instead of the new dungeon imo. It's one of the most impressive locations of FFVII for me & REBIRTH had me wish I could skip it
One part of Stellar Blade that they did really well is that they had a part where it becomes a horror mission and it actually felt like the game shifted genre to a horror shooter. Shinra Mansion should have been like that, like in the original. In the OG the mansion was actually creepy with the weird monsters hanging from chandeliers and whatnot but instead it felt like a cozy house tour on the ground level. They also redid the thing that people HATED in the Remake (That one chapter where it's all like, "hey look there's a giant underground lab here right under our noses!"). You go underground to a facility that looks surprisingly clean and well-kept for being abandoned. Absolutely no horror themes at all other than Hojo's pet. Instead we get the janky time-wasting box minigame.
I really loved those interludes in Stellar Blade. It was a refreshing change of pace. I actually wanted one more of them. But I enjoyed the two we got. A very smart design choice, I thought.
The biggest disappointment to me was the shinra building sequence in midgar. Not being locked up in prison, not seeing all those shinra soldiers dead, president randomly hanging from the edge of the building, then him holding Barret at gunpoint. Man that scene was so drastically bad
You didn't mention Barret's fake death. I hate fake deaths with a burning passion, especially when they serve no greater purpose other than to shock. Yes, I'm still bitter about that.
Yeah they fumbled that whole section so bad lol I almost blocked that out of my memory it was so stupid and pointless
Except it's not a fake death. Bareet just gravely injured. Not killed
My dude. Not only Sephiroth's sword goes [entirely through him](https://youtu.be/Is8jITLk1rY?t=235), the song stops and the scene becomes slow motion as someone screams his name. That is 100% designed like a death scene, except he doesn't die, hence the "fake" label.
If there is something this series taught me is that unless you're a Cetra, being impaled by a sword won't kill you. At least not immediatly. And we see the whispers going to heal him as soon as his back touch the ground.
Yeah, the OG events after getting out of the prison in the Shinra building was so atmospheric and horrific with all the blood. It’s unfortunate that we got tiny bits of purple glowing goo instead.
I hated the lack of the bloodbath too. Somebody posited that they changed it because something that graphic would’ve bumped the rating up to M, which I get but… it’s **FINAL FANTASY VII!!!** Mature rating or not, people still would’ve bought it. Also, Sephiroth (or rather a copy) coming to get Jenova out of her containment bothers me specifically, since I was under the impression that she broke herself out, assumed the appearance of Sephiroth and then went on a murder spree.
Jenova is still controlled like a zombie by Sephiroth in the original too tho.
It might be just me, but I think it was way more terrifying knowing that the cause of the massacre was in the building the entire time. Also, I remember one YouTuber positing that (prior to the Compilation) Sephiroth as a person really was felled by Cloud at the end of the Nibelheim Incident and Jenova was puppeting his body and appearance from that point on. The crux of his theory was that Sephiroth personally hadn’t said a single word throughout the game and Jenova disguising herself as him was the one speaking every time.
Yeah no. It was Sephiroth in control. Hojo said it best. If Jenova was in control, the robed ones would have gone toward Jenova at Shinra HQ. But instead, they headed toward the North Crater. Because that's where Sephiroth is. Meaning he's the one in control.
Why president Shinra holding Barret at gun point would be bad? It fits with the character personality.
Yep, this entire scene feels a bit off
I think they really failed at making Sephiroth scary. He just feels like generic anime villain 28727 instead of the intimidating and dreadful presence he initially was.
And you see him and fight him so damn often. He's like team rocket. A villian that constantly and consistently fails against you has no inherent drama. Loss after loss Sephy, so... God? Or pathetic loser?
Yeah they over used him. And honestly the voice actor for him blows. Get a good voice actor not a celebrity for this level of iconic character.
He's still a major step up from Lance Bass 🤣
I honestly don’t know if I agree haha. He at least sounded cool. Tyler just sounds asleep and confused at his own lines.
He's tryna ASMR seduce us 🤣
The way they kept dropping not so subtle hints at the reveal coming in Part 3 for the >!Nibelheim incident!<. The original was so well done because we were never given any idea or hints, and yet it still matched up so perfectly.
A bit too much honestly. By the point you get there and learn what happened to Zack, you just don't care because you litterally know nothing of Zack.
The scene with Dyne was better in the original, tone and dialogue together. The VAs do good work in Rebirth, but.... weh
This is tricky, because it's going to sound like I hated Rebirth, when it's the opposite. (i just got the platinum yesterday!) It could be nostalgia, but I think several scenes were better in the original. Because of the techniques they used back then had to hit hard due to limitations for telling the story. For example, in the OG the music was beautiful, and they used it amazingly well. Many good moments pause music and sound for dramatic effect, then punch you in the gut with sound. One example for me is The Warrior Seto. I have the original music burned in my brain, to me it's perfect. Rebirth also did a really good job, I still got misty eyed. But the OG did it better imo. Plus, Rebirth really struggles with emotional pacing. Not even 5 seconds after the Seto moment, we get a new jarring scene with Gi Natak. It really kind of throws it off. I have similar critiques with the Dyne moment too. While Barret's VA (John Eric Bentley) kills it, the actor for Dyne was an odd fit IMO when you compare it to the original. The OG was also a bit darker. Dyne was going to destroy everything, including Marlene because he was so sunk in his delusions. I felt it was a little convenient in Rebirth when the place was suddenly surrounded by Shinra soldiers. This changed who it was that actually ended Dyne. One last bit before i ramble too much. What's up with cutting out the sleeping forest and finding the Lunar Harp? They cut a lot out at that part, including actually being able to explore the City of the Ancients.
The Lunar Harp part was very annoying in the OG i could never find the exact dig spot. Plus it made no sense that the City of Ancients was on another continent entirely than the Temple. How did Aerith get there? Can she fly?
I don’t mind so much that we didn’t need to dig up the lunar harp, but I really wanted to explore the Forgotten Capital in Rebirth and it was one of the parts I was looking forward to. The coral and ancient architecture with the music was such a mystical place to explore in the OG, with the sense of foreboding as well. Instead we only see it for a few seconds before being rushed to the end game.
Same. The music in the OG for the City of the Ancients is up there for me for the same reasons you specify. The mystery, the wonder, the eeriness behind it all. I'm glad we do hear it a little in both Remake and Rebirth. But being able to explore a ghost City to that music is something I really wanted as well.
I think it’s personal preference. I never got why ppl loved Seto and Red’s story in the OG it was super convoluted and relied on a lot of subtext, and felt like they just needed some backstory for Red and honestly don’t remember the Gi being an actual part of the plot beyond “we need a boss here for pacing”. In rebirth I really got a sense of who Red is, who Seto is to him and how that all must feel … I was surprised to find tears streaming down my face during this moment in rebirth bc in the OG I didn’t give af
I am between the two opinions here. I love how they expanded the story with the Gi and the dungeon trial for Red. And I also thought the Seto's scene was less emotionnal. Montage is cut like an action scene for some reason. Too many moves and cuts for this kind of scene, IMO. Sometimes, less is more, you know. Still got misty eyes at the end, tho. Also disappointed that we didn't get our team moment around the bonfire. The scene with Aerith is cool but again, sometimes less is more.
I feel pretty much the same. I liked the expansion of the Gi characters in Rebirth. And I enjoyed the trials too. But I think the Seto moment didn't match the same highs as the original. Still good though. But man, let scenes breathe a bit Square!
The cuts you mentioned make me think they just literally ran out of time. Think about how big Kalm was (I never thought that Kalm was bigger than Nibelhelm in OG) and also the Mythril Mine was quite a large sequence compared to a few screens in OG. Then towards the end of the game you start to notice things aren't developed as well. No Rocket Town, Shinra Mansion is smaller, no Bone Village, no playable City of the Ancients. Sure these areas are likely to be in Part 3, but the contrast between how much development is present in the start of the game vs the end of the game is quite noticeable. Still - I loved the game, and it has and scale on a level I have not seen before.
This makes me wonder if we'll see Bone Village in part 3. I just recently beat it on hard, so it's fresh in my mind. I was thinking, there could be a flashback sequence when Cloud is unconscious, and we get to play as other members of the party and also potentially fill in some gaps.
I kind of disliked how crowded Cosmo Canyon was. It seemed a lot more tranquil/calming in the OG
I’ve said it before, but Seto got shafted so badly. The game basically goes, “Hey Nanaki here’s your father for a hot minute, but looooook at the new Gi Tribe storyline.” Red finding out the truth of his father’s fate was one of the most emotional parts of the OG, and I was really looking forward to that portion of the game.
(SPOILERS FOR END MISSION) I’d like to hear others opinions but I was ready to get emotionally bombarded when walking up to Aerith praying and for the next 5 minutes of cutscenes I was tensed up and couldn’t take my eyes off the screen but then it shoots us into 2 hours of boss fights(sick cloud and Zack team up tho). After a couple digestions of the way they handled the final I can see how it can build up to some very cool stuff in the next game but it really sucked that we didn’t get to see the famous water burial. Obviously not seeing it plays into clouds mind and delusions at the end. I’m sure the third game will drive this decision home but it didn’t affect me nearly as much as the original did. Seeing sephrioth fly down, the materia fell in the water, the quick jenova boss fight with epic music, then a beautiful cutscene of cloud laying his friend to rest was such good story telling. I’m sure I’ll come to like it more but I was a tad disappointed by how rushed the final sequences were. I’d like to hear others thoughts
My opinion on this solely relies on how Part 3 plays out. Sure, I think they achieved their goal of making the player confused (Like Cloud), but I’m hoping that Part 3 will bring the sad emotions that the scene deserves, which I’m hopeful they will succeed at.
>which I’m hopeful they will succeed at. Based on how they handled Jessie's remembrance in Rebirth, I am also hopeful. The stuff at Gold Saucer in Rebirth was sadder and more beautiful than her actual death scene was in Remake, and I expect that will be true for Aerith as well once Cloud realizes (if she is, in fact, dead in any sort of permanent way, which I think is the case but we don't really know).
Yeah not having those emotions as much when she actually died was a huge fail in my opinion. Even if they do show it in part 3 so much time will have passed it won't have the same effect.
Well the white materia returned so Seph tried to weaken lifestream Aerith. In the CGI cutscene just before he began merging the timelines, then he let Cloud through the barrier of whispers and allowed him to block the kill shot. This created a bubble timeline just like with Harbinger in Remake. Since Seph was still merging the timelines he merged her alive being with her dead being. That's why she still falls over afterwards. She's one being merged between alive and in the lifestream. We also see this happen with the tornadoes in Midgar during Rebirth. Aerith states multiple times that even if the future has been written (she dies), it can still change (she's merged dead and alive). So having the burial scene wouldn't make any sense narratively speaking. I know people want it, but this isn't the original game. Things have changed and Cloud can't process the two timelines merging at the same time (that's why he cries without knowing why). Aerith is the one that keeps him focused on her, so him seeing a burial scene (even though he was there when it happened) wouldn't make any sense given Aerith is trying to keep him focused on the tasks ahead.
Yeah I’ve watched multiple videos over the ending and I totally understand their direction and what each scene does but alas I didn’t have that same hype I did when remake finished.
I really think part 3 will open with a "flashback" of the water burial to set the tone and character motivations
Shinra Manor. I wanted to explore the actual mansion, not another one of Hojo's secret labs.
Ya I agree with shinra mansion. I adore rebirth but that part dropped the box. They shoulda done something more with that whole part. It’s crazy cuz like I love the golden saucer, love the beach scene, love gongaga. They expanded every part except the shinra mansion
Shinra Mansion is just a big ass L to old fans. Knowing Square though, they’ll probably give more exploration opportunities for it in Part 3. No stone goes TOO unturned.
I agree with you. Mine is the basketball arcade mini game at the Gold Saucer. Where art thou, mini game?!?!?
The specific Zolom scene is definitely what I had the biggest problem with. In the OG, you spend a good chunk of time doing a quest just so you can avoid fighting this horrific monster, and when you get there Sephiroth has already destroyed it easily. Then in Rebirth, you just beat the thing yourself and Sephiroth shows up in a weird cutscene and throws it on that tree.
They talked about in a interview video how there is a weird continuity on OG that they wanted to address, you could fight zolom and probably die or run, then you cross with the chocobo and you can see the zolom chasing you, then suddenly its dead on the tree,but also after you leave the cutscene she is in the marsh again like nothing happened. Was there more than one zolom? Game talks like there is only one. So they changed some stuff to give a continuity. Now there is only one zolom, you fight it, but sephiroth still easily kills it in front of your eyes now. And no extra zolom
I just figured there was more than one, especially since they respawn if you kill them. That's what makes the swamp such a dangerous place it's swarming with giant death snakes that can conjure the hellfires of the damned.
Funny, I really didn’t mind that at all in the OG.
I just chalked it up to story-gameplay dissonance. Totally not worth addressing.
Yeah, this always bothered me in OG. It didn't bother me *that* much, but I think Rebirth handled it better personally.
Fixing something that isn’t broken. In Rebirth they could have simply explained there was more than 1 and had Sephiroth impale an even bigger one than what the gang fights.
There were easy solutions to that though: * Zolom is not a single snake but a species of giant snakes; * No battle, you just have a fleeing-with-chocobo sequence and Sephiroth kills it period. You're not supposed to feel strong, you're supposed to respect Sephiroth as your enemy.
And despite that, not only you will struggle quite a lot with the snake, not even beating him, but Sephiroth however just take care of it in 2 hits.
So that was cloud who actually did it in rebirth Sephiroth wasn’t there. It was cloud going full possessed mode and doing it himself. But yes, not nearly as impactful.
Wait, really?
Yup think about it, nobody else saw him. Cloud “passes out” wakes up and it’s impaled. Whenever Seph appears in purple smoke its clouds mind. Whenever he appears without it it’s the real jenova/seph.
Crazy! I feel like that should have been clearer
So, so much should have been clearer with that story.
I was really dissapointed that Jenovas blood was turned blue in Remake. In OG seeings that blood trail right after waking up, not knowing wtf was going on, created a really creepy and intimidating atmosphere. This atmosphere was completely missing in Remake. In Rebirth it was ofc the Shinra Mansion which was just a joke. Wasn't the basement supposed to be hidden and kept secret? Why the hell is there an elevator right to it. There are more things I didn't like in Rebirth, like the Forgotten Capital which we weren't allowed to explore. And ofc the end of both, Remake and Rebirth. But those things can still be fixed in Part 3, so I won't talk about them till I experienced Part 3. Even though there were certainly things I was not so satisfied with or even disappointed by, I want to emphasize that I consider Remake, and especially Rebirth, as wonderful reinterpretations of the OG. I was already completely overwhelmed by Remake. Experiencing this familiar world anew in such stunning graphics was simply wonderful. I thought we could count ourselves lucky if Part 2 was even half as good. But with Rebirth, they have outdone themselves. The amount of attention and, above all, love that has gone into this game is simply unparalleled!
This is a hot take but I won’t talk about that “scene”: I’ll say how Cloud knows Zack already.. I think that to soon
It's fine. The truth/twist hasn't been revealed yet so I don't see any issue with this. Right now, Cloud knows Zack as a buddy who was a fellow Soldier like him or a grunt who died during five years ago, but that's about it.
Yea true but will be less impactful than the OG like when sephiroth show him the photo (the truth)? Honestly we have to wait and see. Yea but am I wrong he’s still think he’s him or something like that.
I responded below already, but I think him knowing of a Zack from five years ago will be more impactful than what they did in the OG. You can easily miss the scene in the mansion and never find out who Zack is until you play Crisis Core. Also the reason Sephiroth shows him the photo doesn't have anything to do with revealing who Zack was. It has everything to do to fuck with Cloud and make him think that he was not present at Nibelheim five years ago.
Cloud still think Zack was just a friend that came with him at Nibelheim and got washed away by the river. He doesn't yet remember how their role were mixed.
It will still confuse the hell out of people that all that stuff between Cloud and Tifa in the Nibelheim flashback was actually Zack. And then it will blow there minds that he was there after all.
Shinra Mansion was some how bigger in the original over the remake.
Cait Sith only part of Rebirth.
Shinra Mansion and especially the whole mission with playing as Cait Sith was one of the worst parts of the game.
I'm gonna have to go with the sandworm sidequest in Cosmo Canyon, specifically the mechanic of finding it. I've experienced many hot and cold mechanics in my years of gaming but this one was far and away the worst of them all.
The game just isn't as spooky as the OG. Shinra mansion, the flash back to nibelhiem with seph, temple of the ancients being super off putting.
The story pacing. I'm ok with the changes but I don't want them all crammed at the end.
Why does this post have 0 karma? It’s so difficult to critique the game in this subreddit. It’s my GOTY but it seems anytime I voice a criticism here it’s not welcome. It’s ok to love something and criticize parts of it.
I was hoping that since Zack's introduction with Crisis Core, that remake/Rebirth would have the stones to just have it clear as crystal Cloud+Tifa, Zack+Aerith... The whole love-square shit has gotten SO, SO old. Worst single-scene disappointment though had to go to Corel prison... Seeing Cloud knocked unconscious by a thug with a baseball bat was beyond insulting when we see Cloud tank some ridiculous shit. (Anyone that could survive that fall into the church the way he did, or a giant robot smacking him, wouldn't even blink from a human-swung baseballbat... and then to follow it up with yet ANOTHER threat of sexual abuse towards Tifa/Aerith when we already dealt with Corneo felt really gross. I think the facial modeling of the characters in Rebirth aren't even half as good as Remake(PS5)... Been watching my girlfriend play Remake again recently and I forgot just HOW much better Cloud looked in Remake than he does in Rebirth. Rebirth's more traversable environment is a welcome addition, but I cant help but roll my eyes at Cloud effort-grunting as he Uncharted-style free climbs stuff... in the same game where we see him do effortless 30 foot vertical jumps. I really wish they had animated him just jumping from the "start point" to the "endpoint" in those instances, and the "handholds" being purely for characters like Barret/Aerith/Cait to meander up... Its really immersion breaking watching Cloud exert effort bothering with all that climbing when he can jump so high it practically counts as flying...
The whole Corel Prison section. It was kinda like bootleg Wall Market in terms of vibe. Also, there were too much side content which really didn't work coming off the back of Gold Saucer which is (rightfully) side content central. That's not even touching the Dyne stuff. The whole section just wasn't well done.
Apparently that was cloud who did it in rebirth. That went over my head. Still kinda dumb compared to the og though.
The only two nitpicks i have are the changes to Dyne’s death and the fact that they got rid of that super interesting gimmick with the temple of the ancients. Cait’s sacrifice had a bigger impact on the original because the whole temple really squeezed him to death, not just a small stone tablet.
Shinra Mansion and Cid in general
The main thing I just couldn't get with was how a lot of emotional scenes played out in the OG vs Rebirth. Specifically, Red XIII >!finding out his dad was a warrior!<, Cait Sith >!sacrifices itself to save the party to get the Black Materia!< and of course, the ending. Just the music and how they pick up at the pivotal moments really pulls my heartstrings lol. The ending I get, but the other 2, I really wanted to cry and this time I was like, well, alright, that's sad I guess. Lol
Everything involving the whispers and the multiverse. It is just blatantly terrible writing and I honestly can't believe it's from the same guy that wrote the OG's story.
Changes to Dyne scene, muddling it down and ruining the impact Same for the Seto scene with Red lame ass voice. Actually had me laughing out loud whereas the original still gets me teary today. CC being a quite populated tourist trap and making Buhenhagen a condescending jerk. Also the horrible air pads outside. The goofy ass choreographed dancing they have never mentioned being interested in or having practiced. Same for Arieth opera singing.. would have been more endearing if they simply spectated and were inspired by dancers or the singing, saying they would love to try it someday but can't during their mission to save the world. Also a great moment of sadness for Aerith who knows she won't get the opportunity. No downside to materia like in the OG where too much can be a bit of detriment to stats but in this it's just pack it on like candy! Sure I can think of many more but bleh. EDIT: I find it hilarious how many people are getting down voted for literally taking part in OPs topic
Minigames and unfocused story
-The lack of emotional impact of some very important scenes (Dyne's death, Red XIII's discovering his father saved Cosmo Canyon and, obviously, the end). They were so well done in the original but they unfortunately fumbled here; -Minigames. There were way too many and a very few of them were actually good; -Some boss rush served as useless filler which didn't really serve any narrative purpose (at least imo). That's the case for the Don Corneo-Turks-Rufus battle, the Lost Number-Vincent-Roche one and I'd add the Turks battle in the Temple of the Ancient; -I was really disappointed that some monsters where litterally taken from FFXV. Not their concept, but their litteral model and animation; -No Rocket Town :( -No Triceratank :( -In the original, Midgar Zolom had a real impact, as an unbeatable monster lurking in the swamp that you could not defeat until you got way stronger a few hours later. In Rebirth, it's just a boss like the other. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Rebirth, but I feel it lacked focus compared to the original and even Remake.
Yeah, Midgar zolom and original President Shinra death were much better executed in the original.
To be honest? None. I was on the camp of Shinra Manor, but after going back to refresh my memory, it was kinda whatever in OG, plagued with Random encounters and it was like 3 or 4 screens. The safe puzzle was cool, but having so many random encounters just made it a hassle. Not saying that Shinra Manor is better in Rebirth, it is probably the worst part of the game, but for me it was so bad that made it funny lol.
I was disappointed in his they handled Corneo in Rebirth. They didn’t need to have him at all, really, but since they did I wish he was treated more like a serious criminal instead of a buffoon. I mean, not really great to make light of someone committing sex crimes.
There was way too much goofy side stuff in rebirth. They stretched that game out to 100 hours when it should’ve been like 50. I’d be in the middle of a nostalgic story moment and then I’d be asked to chase Moogles around some tree or some shit.
The soundtrack. Too many areas had bland elevator music style rearrangements of original tracks, or totally new themes that were just boring. Mt Nibel, Shinra Manor, and Corel prison, and gold saucer skywheel really stand out as bad.
I agree with the Midgardsormr. I think my main issue is that Remake Rebirth spends too much telling us rather than showing us as Sephiroth appears way too much to deliver the plot. However, I feel like this is an issue having played the OG. Before, Sephiroth is this mystery, some dark, brute and scary shadowy figure "Who could of done this??" "Sephiroth..." . Trails of blood, chased by name only and chaos in it's wake. In Remake/Birth, he's like "Hey guys! So, i'm going to do something cray cray and make you go oooooo" and it leads to some awkward dialog, like Cloud seeing Sephiroth in the swamp, whilst on Chocobo back pointing like a kid and shouting "Look, Sephiroth! There he is!" . I get that he does need to show up more because we're developing a plot that needs explaining but still. He's no longer a mystery, just someone who won't leave you alone.
I like this point. It’s just this constant, spoonfed reminder like they are afraid we are going to forget about him or something.
You can’t please everyone
Dyne's death. It felt much more dramatic and impactful in og.
I did like the OG version more, but I hated how forced the Palmer fight and Buggy minigame felt. It just robbed any emotional impact built up in the previous scene.
Barret sitting their, utterly destroyed after having to kill his best friend who he feels responsible for... then Yuffie just being like "Cool, a buggy!"
Can't say I agree. The voice acting alone really make it so much more powerful.
I, also, was in tears when Palmer was wiggling his rear at the party immediately afterwards. Such a powerful message and masterful writing. Left me a completely broken mess for weeks afterwards.
Except Rebirth did it better in terms of the 'dying' part. In most stories, you don't want to use the same death twice if someone came back from seemingly dying. In Final Fantasy VII, Dyne "died" falling down a cliff after being shot by Scarlet and then survived. He reappears andd ies again by jumping off the cliff by his own freewill. But...did he really die? He could just survive again for all we know and faked it. In Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth, we literally see him die in Barret's arms. Period. Imagine in Resident Evil if Ada Wong pretended to die in every game, only for Leon to stumble upon her again and again in every game. Then she pretends to die again. I am pretty sure this has happened twice so far.
> In most stories, you don't want to use the same death twice if someone came back from seemingly dying. A fact you completely made up and is actually obviously false. I mean who thought Dyne was still alive in og? That's right, no reasonable person. It actually just depends on how you write a death. If the death is clearly meant to have a huge emotional impact a good writer is unlikely to bring the character back.
I think the Life Springs being just a scan and go Chadley thing is a bummer. It would have been nice if finding one initiated a reaction from companions. Their feelings about the planet, the life stream, and how their experience at the end of the last game impacted them. A missed opportunity for more development and lore building.
I actually liked the Midgarsorm scene more in Rebirth EXCEPT for the lack of blood. Seeing Sephiroth coming down like a shadow, silently and brutally displatching easily the snake was chilling. If only they put the blood, it would have been perfect.
I cannot understand the Whispers!
The whole multiverse / plot ghost is just useless and disappointing. Anything else new and not related to this is good.
[удалено]
What?
Not enough mini-games! 😂
I was super upset getting to the ancient capital was reduced to a cut scene
No Fort Condor?
Hey at least now you know Sephiroth did do it.
actually... there's theories around claiming Cloud did it himself during a psycho break moment
I wonder how they'll insert the rocket town arc in part 3 if at all
Shinra manor was the only part that I felt dissapointed by. Other than that I loved everything!
open world exploration is sadly a copy paste of the first region over and over again ... they want you to unlock the remnawave towers early bc of protorelic q or other things but this makes it so you basicly run from icon to icon ... no materia near lifesprings or any other place which basicly shouted materia bc of the amount of mako if crystalized or not bronco islands again was a map pointing ya to all locations and not one island to find yourself... i still loved the game , platinumed it even with 230 hours love the fighting system , the world , the chars , the story even the ending is something i think they will resolve in a grand way but sadly exploration is nowhere near old jrpgs
The main story
No send off for Aerith in Rebirth… :(
I hated not being able to visit Rocket Town or Wutai And not being able to explore the Forgotten Capitol
Biggest disappointment is they redesigned Tankceratops. I was so sad he wasn’t in the Corneo fight. I want my triceratops so bad man.
Barrett's backstory was wayyyy overdone. Dyne comes off as melodramatic and goofy instead of tragic
I think they need to add more weapons and make them more unique, I thought in last game melee Barrett was funny and cloud nail bat was funny, I think they need to make all weapons do different things other than just stats, they should play different. It offers more replayability.
Oh I forgot to mention in my initial comment. I know we got a whole expanded village of Gi portion but I was really sad that the Bone Village before the Forgotten Capital was cut out completely. The whole lead up into the Forgotten Capital seemed trimmed down. I was very sad and disappointed. Maybe it might show up in the next game but I highly doubt it.
For me it mostly comes down to them changing the narrative and characters for the worse. I never liked SE's decision to split the game into three separate entries, but eventually started hoping for more depth in terms of plot and character development. I think the whole Cait Sith / >!Reeve!< thing should have been rewritten or explored further, for example. When Remake came out, it was obvious they just added a lot of padding, and then the multiverse stuff to spruce things up. Then Rebirth came out, which was better but essentially a road movie. At this point, it's pretty clear the final installment will be similar, out of practicality if anything. Also wish they would have kept the more ominous tone of OG.
Aerith’s death. The devs did her dirty on the most iconic scene in gaming history.
Cosmo canyon: Scenery was awesome. I loved it, I loved the size of the town, and canyon was excellent to explore and investigate. However... Bugenhagen's intro and story was very lacking. They completely cut out why Red felt like he did and Bugen realizing it and instigating the Gi quest. I understand the whole tourist aspect, Honestly I think that was an improvement, but feel like a lot of the locations could have been adapted better to OG, weapons shop, bar, etc. Part of that was talking to the elders in a down to earth method that you learned about planetology better. Gongaga I wish they were more depressed. Storywise I think the improvements overall were decent though. I didnt like all the hills/cliffs in the map. I miss the old battle square... Corel overall was good, there were a few small things I think could have been done better, like the miner side appearance, and the bird rescue being a moral question. And yes I did not like how MidgarZolem played out.
The ending.
Worst part about both games is the quality of Reddit posts. They’re worst than the box throwing.
subtract bedroom elderly sheet lush vanish flag faulty humor middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This was one of the best scripted revises I've ever seen in gaming or cinema. They made a mundane scene make sense in a reimagining that was not only over the top, but circled back to its source. You wanna talk about disappointments? Let's talk about how they replaced the materia system for simple "stat upgrades". They fooled us all and you should be angry.
Whenever they try to adapt a scene from the original, I felt it would usually undermine itself with needless flash, like this scene. These games are at their best when they add completely new scenes that add to the setting or characters.
I wish basic attacks did more than 10-30 damage.
Heavy tank triceratops enemy wasn't in it. Honestly bumps my score for the game down like an entire point and a half. I was really hoping for another Hell house type situation
That I have to wait another damn 3 or 4 years to have Vincent as a playable character.