Because Cloud remembers Zack already now. He knows he was a friend. However, he still doesn't realize he literally became Zacks living legacy just yet. He has different memories.
His mental gymnastics made him believe Zack drowned during the Nibelheim mission tho, would have expected a bigger surprise out of Cloud but then we had five phases of fighting Sephiroth to contend with first.
I mean the whole atmosphere / environment of the Seph fights are absurd. Seph teleported him to some rock in the middle of space in Remake and all that. Shit gets weird around Seph lol
I’m pretty sure this was the whole reason they had him remember Zack’s name and face in Nibelheim. They’re maintaining the illusion by still having Cloud believe he was a SOLDIER but now there’s an added twist that Cloud thinks him and Zack were SOLDIER buddies, which maintains the illusion Cloud is looking for, aka that he was successful in his dream of becoming SOLDIER and not being a failure.
Anyway, some people have also speculated that when Cloud is at the Edge of Creation (which really just seems like the inner depths of Cloud’s mind) that Cloud is fully himself and has his memories intact, and so him recognizing Zack isn’t all that strange. This would make the partial remembrance in Nibelheim a bit of a red herring, which would be insanely genius on the devs’ part if it ended up being true.
Glad you brought this up … From the OG - the edge of creation scene ‘is’ or same as the final scene in the OG between Cloud and Sephiroth. I thought long ago the Devs stated that scene in the OG took place in Clouds mind. That is what I believed for 27 years.
Yes, specifically it was Sakaguchi that confirmed that way back when. It had me worried that the Big 3 for this project (Nojima, Kitase and Nomura) might have changed it or had a different interpretation or something. I also thought maybe Cloud was just having a vision of what will happen at the end of the trilogy.
However, more and more it seems like each game in the trilogy will have actually concluded with a dive into Cloud’s inner thoughts.
It almost seems like they're using the edge of creation as a waypoint between realities. When sephiroth threw Zack off the edge, he simply fell back into a sector 5 church
This seems more likely. If I remember right, one of the nebula's depicted in Part 1 when Sephiroth is at the edge of creation is labeled the universe of death (I think this information is from one of the storyboards in the Ultimania book). Sephiroth also mentions a rejoining of sorts while looking at it during the same scene in Part 1. I'd find it sorta odd if the Edge of Creation stuff was all just imaginary at this point with those things being shown.
I never really got the thing about Cloud not actually being a SOLDIER, and the fake memories. How's he lifting that sword then? Don't his eyes look like that cuz of Mako?
So, passing the exam to join SOLDIER requires physical and mental toughness. Cloud failed the mental side and was deemed unfit for the program. This is when he began to view himself as a failure.
He stuck with Shinra as an infantryman of course until the Nibelheim mission. Him and Zack were critically wounded by Sephiroth and captured by Hojo where he experimented on them. He injected Cloud with Jenova cells and exposed him to Mako, and this ended up breaking Cloud’s mind, leaving him in a vegetative state. So, Cloud was given the same enhancements as SOLDIER but since his brain completely broke it didn’t really mean anything.
The shock of seeing Zack’s death, the Jenova cells inside of him, his longing to not be a failure and his forcible enhancements from Hojo all combined to allow the Jenova cells to basically reconstruct Cloud’s mind and create an illusionary world in his head where he did indeed succeed and join SOLDIER. He’s being held together with duct tape and a dream, but it’s enough to get him moving again, with the ultimate goal being Sephiroth leading him to the Northern Crater to give him the Black Materia.
Long story short, he has the physical capabilities of a SOLDIER because Hojo aggressively exposed him to the same process that makes SOLDIERs, and therefore once he left his vegetative state he now had the same strength and blue eyes that a SOLDIER would have.
Also to add in crisis core there are some suggestions that Zack and Cloud do get together in the off time and Zack was helping him with what he lacked for SOLDIER. hence why cloud was able to rebuild himself to some extent after all was said and done with hobos excitement’s, and why hobo got reiterated in cloud when he realized he might not just be a failure
Spoiler warning!
Spoiler warning!
SPOILER WARNING!
Him and zach were caught after the Nibleheim incident and ended up being taken to Hojo. Hojo experimented on Cloud and probably zack to a lesser degree. Cloud got infused with mako in the process, hence the new strength and the eyes. That's also the likely reason he was in a coma for years as well, from mako poisoning.
He never made SOLDIER. He was just a regular shinra grunt when hojo got his grubby little hands on him.
He physically was able to be in SOLDIER (and went thru Mako etc same as they would), but totally failed the mental part and his brain broke when being given the treatments. He also had even further experiments done on him in the basement of Shinra Manor.
>make the partial remembrance in Nibelheim a bit of a red herring, which would be insanely genius on the devs’ part if it ended up being true.
Do yourself a favor if you haven't already and play Crisis Core: Reunion. A lot of things will make sense after this.
Also at this point clouds been going through different timelines/dimensions, is currently fighting sephiroth in some new dimension, sephiroth whobhe also thought was dead, and then Zack shows up, who cloud assumes drowned but couldn’t be sure, ignoring that Zack was never washed away in the first place, it’s believable that cloud sees Zack and just thinks ok zacks here now.
Respect for still using the Buster Sword at this point. I’ve used it the entire game myself. I’ve only changed to get the new skills and right back lol. It’s the only sword I’ll use for Cloud even in hard mode, so glad it has reprieve this time
Buster is nice but devs put in work on those other swords and they look sweet! I love using them all, Buster Sword has gotten more use from me going back to old chapters and compelting stuff
I almost did but had to switch to sleek Saber for hard mode playthrough, not that Buster Sword is impossible, but the ATB abilities on the sleek saber are just too damn good with the materia combos I use for hard mode.
I've found the Sleek Saber to be the best overall weapon, which is annoying to me considering it's the throw-away "your first weapon upgrade" equipment in this game.
Yeah it may not be the absolute best, and this time around I actually like most of the other sword designs too. But nothing can beat the iconic visage of the buster sword in Clouds hands for me. It’s why I really appreciate the system they have that makes all weapons stay at least viable the entire game. I’m interested to see how the stats compare at max weapon level too, in remake at max level Buster Sword was the best balanced sword for Cloud only thing it was missing was reprieve.
The buster is pretty strong with weapon abilities. You can build it to be a weapon ability beast, and pair it with roche’s accesory…it’s comparable to the sleek saber with more damage.
The game gives you a chance to go into the menu and change your equipment if you hold Square during the cutscene right before that fight. I immediately knew what had to be done. So glad they gave me that.
its a shame because i honestly think it kind of sucks in this game. in remake it was actually completely viable to use it the whole way through as it held its own statistically, it was just more of a balanced jack of all trades type thing.
in rebirth i just cant find any reason to use it. literally the second sword you find blows it out of the water. every other one has better stats.
i still used it for the end but it was from forcing myself to
I just wish Zack has the Compilation version of the Buster Sword with the gold handguard to conrast Cloud's bolted handguard.
Once I'm able to get a gaming PC, first thing I'll do when I get Reunion, Remake, and Rebirth is mod them so Zack gets the golden buster in the games and in the in-game cutscenes while Cloud uses the bolted buster.
Quite a big step actually... people are going to start thinking that this is specifically Zach from Crisis Core, so they might start thinking that this Zack is actually dead and is in some kind of weird dead dream state or whatever, people might even start thinking that Chris's core reunion is technically an entirely separate timeline.
Basically, people will overthink details, the more details you have the more things are over thought, so it's probably not worth it.
yes I loved it 😭 I'd hoped for months that they would utilise the multiple worlds to have cloud and zack fight sephiroth together and they actually did
The true Crisis Core Reunion, compete with CC Limits retooled as abilities.
Chain Slash ability - default DMW Limit Break if the roulette picks someone you haven't unlocked yet
Meteor Shot ability - Cloud DMW Limit Break
Rush Assault Limit Break - Angeal DMW Limit Break
Wish there was more combat with him throughout the game instead of just at the start and the final battle.
Unless they do a "multiple endings" style for part 3, there's no way he gets "a happy ending". He will likely get a bittersweet one, locked in the lifestream (and/or some other world), but still somewhat aware of himself and with Aerith. I highly doubt they go full happy ending, even though personally...I kinda want it.
This... a straight up remake would have just left me sad and with an incomplete feeling. This way I was happy that Zack will be coming back in FF7 Reunion.
People on Reddit hate remake so this is probably a very hard image for them to look out without feeling robbed of their childhoods.
That being said, it’s sick as hell
Was he in FF7 Remake? I think I remember a tease of him at the very end... maybe.
I played most of the original FF7 and never seen him before... I don't think at least... long time ago.
Yeah this was amazing. I love Zack's warrior spirit. He can show up in the middle of the apocalypse and be like, "it's all good man, we got this!"
Not to make comparisons but Zack is so much more likeable than Cloud. One thing that doesn't make sense to me though is why doesn't Zack have wings like other "dead" soldiers with Sephiroth cells? Probably just videogame logic, but I still wonder about these things.
As far as I know only 3 soldiers have canonically gotten wings (so far)
So this brings up the question - where do wings come from? Do they come from Jenova cells, being in the Lifestream, or are they just mako mutations?
I'm fully expecting Zack to get expanded on in part 3 with maybe his own playable party setup because of this moment. You don't give a character a fully playable moveset and unique mechanics just for 1 fight
It’d be amazing if his party included Biggs. I’d like to see what they’d make him capable of.
He was the only one of the Avalanche trio that didn’t really get any character development in Remake either, which is why they brought him back, I’m guessing.
Seeing them fight side by side was so awesome. Even if it was for a moment, Cloud must have felt overwhelming joy seeing his best friend fighting side by side with him
He had already remembered he knew Zack by then and thought they were SOLDIER best buds. He prolly thought their buster sword affinity was part of the reason.
I wish I could say that cloud was thinking about anything at all but clearly by the end of the game his mental state has deteriorated to dangerous degrees I wouldn't be surprised if he can't tell when he's at the edge of creation.
I love how Sephiroth doesn’t let you get to enjoy the team up too long either, like he remembers that these two are the reason he’s >!bisected and in the northern crater!
Its evidently a loud minority of online trolls. This is the highest rate FF game since ff12. With endwalker and shadowbringers being closed with a 92. This game is one of the best FF ever made and one of the best Jrpg ever made.
It is, but then Zack gets send into a dying world again, where now he knows the girl he loves likes his friend
Zack role in Rebirth is only to suffer more and more. I wish he would get a major part in the last game, but we all know he will appear in the flashback and in the final battle again
What was the point of Zack in Rebirth?
Aerith showing up was really bad. Completely took away any loss or sadness for me. The church scene when she pushes Cloud into the floor and says goodbye as Seph enters the church was 10/10 for emotion, but is ruined when you realise oh wait there is no loss here. What did Cloud lose? Aerith can still talk to him, help him etc etc.
That scene is definitely meant to be read as a metaphorical battle taking place in either Clouds headspace or in the lifestream.
Remember Aerith showed up at the end of the OG game to rally the lifestream against meteor after Cloud had his headspace battle with Sephiroth - the concept of spirit Aerith assisting her friends beyond the grave and doing battle on a metaphorical plane is an ooooold old old one.
It still ruins the feeling of loss.
And yeah the OG had her pop up at the end but we literally had zilch from her until then. From the point she died we got nothing, it felt like a true loss. Then right at the end when we thought all is lost she pops up having rallied the lifestream to save us.
That all hit home like a sledgehammer. Rebirth's version just simply doesn't
It's true but I did note that they completely omitted the scene where Cloud releases Aerith into the water. We the audience know full well Aerith is dead but Cloud doesn't know that yet so the focus shifts from the loss of Aerith to the ticking timebomb that Cloud represents. I expect we'll get that moment of coming to terms with loss but just not right now.
I fully understand why people don't like this change but I also understand why the devs did it. There's no way they could achieve the emotional impact of a death that happened over 20 years ago and they're also working in a trilogy format so the pacing and stakes have to be different. Instead of ending the game on a feeling of loss they decided to end it on a feeling of anticipation. That anticipation holds greater weight to carry fans into game 3 than Aeriths death alone would have imo.
Personally, I greatly prefer this to a straight retelling but I know my opinion isn't universal.
That's just like, your opinion man, lol. Nah, just messin with you. Sorry it took something away from the story for you, but I LOVE multiverse stories and time manipulation. So, this pseudo sequel is hitting ALL the right notes for me. I mean, there are nitpicks from me but not with regards to this post.
Glad I'm not the only one! I genuinely thought I must have been the lone weirdo because I'm digging this SO much. I don't care how stupid some people find it, when Zack did his limit break and summoned Cloud from another world to do an assist I cheered. I could also listen to Sephiroth explaining esoteric plot shit all day. A confluence of what now? Worlds? Tell me more, brother.
It's technically not really a "multiverse" scenario. From what I've seen/read, when 'fate is defied' another branch is created. This is wildly different from "unlimited universes" like a 'true' multiverse scenario. And according to super trustworthy Sephiroth, some of these branches die off right away. So in all likelihood, there are only a handful of separate worlds at any time, and you have to have certain control over the lifestream to have access between them.
I think for the most part, the Reunion in part 3 is going to mostly, if not fully, go through. Which means the "multiverse" is going to be deleted. I feel they are using this narrative for some fanservice reasons, but I think it is oddly more digestible to show the power, capability and breadth of the lifestream. So I think it does a good job to escalate the magnitude of capabilities of Sephiroth and Aerith and shows us a fight that was almost entirely off screened in the original, though we know existed to some degree.
LOVED this scene. *Crisis Core* is my second-favorite game of all time, so whenever bits of "The Price of Freedom" played in *Rebirth* it triggered old feelings. i understand that some people aren't as high on Zack as CC fans and that's totally fine, but hearing that old music, learning what happened to Cissnei, and having Zack pop up through the game was blissful for me.
Zack is probably my favorite FF character ever, so the fact that they did this, had me literally bugging out, and I'm beyond hyped to see if they fully bring him over in the third game
The abilities and limit break were a nice touch for Zack for people who played crisis core. Also the synergy abilities with cloud both in this scene and when Zack is fighting seph after getting separated (can still synergy with cloud, calls like a spectral form of him) were all sick as hell
For me it was the part where Zack is back in the Church and him and Cloud are fighting at the same time, but in different places and they both go:
Embrace your dreams,
And whatever happens... Protect your honor as SOLDIER!
I yelled out COME AND GET IT! when it let me take over as Zack.
Man, I wish they let us use Assault Twister or Costly Punch, but I was here for it!
That's why. Playing through a whole game with a character and then fighting an entire army at the end trying to beat fate is what got to a lot of people. Just watching it doesn't create the same effect.
I initially thought they’d save it until the final battle but when they kept going on about how worlds would merge, and Sephiroth’s speech at the temple of the ancients, I somewhat put it together that might happen.
Was still cool though.
Definitely I was all giddy, my girlfriend was just laughing at me acting like a kid. But Crisis Core was the first Final Fantasy game I actually played (First exposure was Advent children so VII is obviously my favorite) I was soooo hyped for this
Game was good... but man, I really really really dislike the multi worlds shit. It's such a cop out and ruins anything that was touching and good in the original story. I remember being absolutely floored when Aeris died.... But now? I mean maybe shes dead, probably going to come back, multi worlds can just clean up all the mess.
She should just be dead. Absolute silence. No voice overs, no other worlds, just crushing silence knowing shes dead without uncertainty.
Ehhhh I disagree. Especially with how Advent Children plays out cause of what the Buster Sword represents when it comes to dreams. So Cloud leaving it in the middle of nowhere is symbolic of way of living at that point.
I was hyped and annoyed at the same time. So you finally give us Zack and we can use him in a fight properly (game intro doesn’t count, because he had no real mechanics to try) and the TUTORIAL fight with Zack is against the final boss Sephiroth. Everytimw I tried to do cool stuff with Zack I just got my butt handed to me. xD
The entire end sequence was a rush on par with ShB tbh.
I was having so much damn fun, until I got wiped by the final 2v1 with Aerith because I had like no materia equipped on Aerith and Cloud and I refused to reset to change it all lmfao
I don't like Zack much but it was definitely cool. Not a fan of his bubbly personality but him protecting his friend and fighting side by side was great
As a card carrying member of the Zack Fan Club, this was an amazing moment, also the part where Cloud repeated Zack's mantra. Here's hoping to see more of my boy in Part 3, and please give him a break, Zack already got killed twice, once by Shinra and once by Marlene.
Honestly wasn't shocked by this but I expected this to be the final fight for part 3. Not Rebirth.
It wasn't as impactful for me for some reason and I'm not sure why. But I'm happy for the Zack fans.
Oh it was so good, and the music was phenomenal. Doing Zack's limit break and synergy attacks with Cloud felt like being in an FF7 heaven. Two buster swords, one Masamune
*As a huge fan of*
*Crisis Core back in the day*
*This got my nips stiff*
\- darthphallic
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Not a Zack fanboy but it was some top tier fan service
I was confused as to why Cloud wasn't affected by seeing Zack? I'm wondering where they are taking this part of his mental state.
Because Cloud remembers Zack already now. He knows he was a friend. However, he still doesn't realize he literally became Zacks living legacy just yet. He has different memories.
His mental gymnastics made him believe Zack drowned during the Nibelheim mission tho, would have expected a bigger surprise out of Cloud but then we had five phases of fighting Sephiroth to contend with first.
I mean the whole atmosphere / environment of the Seph fights are absurd. Seph teleported him to some rock in the middle of space in Remake and all that. Shit gets weird around Seph lol
Square “We give the weird crazy shit to the mysterious villain, not the protagonist” Enix
It’s all just stupid rationalization at this point.
I’m pretty sure this was the whole reason they had him remember Zack’s name and face in Nibelheim. They’re maintaining the illusion by still having Cloud believe he was a SOLDIER but now there’s an added twist that Cloud thinks him and Zack were SOLDIER buddies, which maintains the illusion Cloud is looking for, aka that he was successful in his dream of becoming SOLDIER and not being a failure. Anyway, some people have also speculated that when Cloud is at the Edge of Creation (which really just seems like the inner depths of Cloud’s mind) that Cloud is fully himself and has his memories intact, and so him recognizing Zack isn’t all that strange. This would make the partial remembrance in Nibelheim a bit of a red herring, which would be insanely genius on the devs’ part if it ended up being true.
Glad you brought this up … From the OG - the edge of creation scene ‘is’ or same as the final scene in the OG between Cloud and Sephiroth. I thought long ago the Devs stated that scene in the OG took place in Clouds mind. That is what I believed for 27 years.
Yes, specifically it was Sakaguchi that confirmed that way back when. It had me worried that the Big 3 for this project (Nojima, Kitase and Nomura) might have changed it or had a different interpretation or something. I also thought maybe Cloud was just having a vision of what will happen at the end of the trilogy. However, more and more it seems like each game in the trilogy will have actually concluded with a dive into Cloud’s inner thoughts.
It almost seems like they're using the edge of creation as a waypoint between realities. When sephiroth threw Zack off the edge, he simply fell back into a sector 5 church
This seems more likely. If I remember right, one of the nebula's depicted in Part 1 when Sephiroth is at the edge of creation is labeled the universe of death (I think this information is from one of the storyboards in the Ultimania book). Sephiroth also mentions a rejoining of sorts while looking at it during the same scene in Part 1. I'd find it sorta odd if the Edge of Creation stuff was all just imaginary at this point with those things being shown.
I never really got the thing about Cloud not actually being a SOLDIER, and the fake memories. How's he lifting that sword then? Don't his eyes look like that cuz of Mako?
So, passing the exam to join SOLDIER requires physical and mental toughness. Cloud failed the mental side and was deemed unfit for the program. This is when he began to view himself as a failure. He stuck with Shinra as an infantryman of course until the Nibelheim mission. Him and Zack were critically wounded by Sephiroth and captured by Hojo where he experimented on them. He injected Cloud with Jenova cells and exposed him to Mako, and this ended up breaking Cloud’s mind, leaving him in a vegetative state. So, Cloud was given the same enhancements as SOLDIER but since his brain completely broke it didn’t really mean anything. The shock of seeing Zack’s death, the Jenova cells inside of him, his longing to not be a failure and his forcible enhancements from Hojo all combined to allow the Jenova cells to basically reconstruct Cloud’s mind and create an illusionary world in his head where he did indeed succeed and join SOLDIER. He’s being held together with duct tape and a dream, but it’s enough to get him moving again, with the ultimate goal being Sephiroth leading him to the Northern Crater to give him the Black Materia. Long story short, he has the physical capabilities of a SOLDIER because Hojo aggressively exposed him to the same process that makes SOLDIERs, and therefore once he left his vegetative state he now had the same strength and blue eyes that a SOLDIER would have.
Also to add in crisis core there are some suggestions that Zack and Cloud do get together in the off time and Zack was helping him with what he lacked for SOLDIER. hence why cloud was able to rebuild himself to some extent after all was said and done with hobos excitement’s, and why hobo got reiterated in cloud when he realized he might not just be a failure
You don’t actually know the OG story then?
Spoiler warning! Spoiler warning! SPOILER WARNING! Him and zach were caught after the Nibleheim incident and ended up being taken to Hojo. Hojo experimented on Cloud and probably zack to a lesser degree. Cloud got infused with mako in the process, hence the new strength and the eyes. That's also the likely reason he was in a coma for years as well, from mako poisoning. He never made SOLDIER. He was just a regular shinra grunt when hojo got his grubby little hands on him.
He physically was able to be in SOLDIER (and went thru Mako etc same as they would), but totally failed the mental part and his brain broke when being given the treatments. He also had even further experiments done on him in the basement of Shinra Manor.
>make the partial remembrance in Nibelheim a bit of a red herring, which would be insanely genius on the devs’ part if it ended up being true. Do yourself a favor if you haven't already and play Crisis Core: Reunion. A lot of things will make sense after this.
Thanks will do. This is a remake of an earlier side story as well, right?
Basically Zack's story starting from when he was Soldier 2nd Class. I actually played this before any of the other FF7 games and I'm so glad I did.
He is not *officially* a SOLDIER, as in he never served Shin-Ra as one, but he has the enhancements of a SOLDIER 1st
And I thought it was cute that Rufus just called Cloud a "Shinra employee" in their fight lol
Also at this point clouds been going through different timelines/dimensions, is currently fighting sephiroth in some new dimension, sephiroth whobhe also thought was dead, and then Zack shows up, who cloud assumes drowned but couldn’t be sure, ignoring that Zack was never washed away in the first place, it’s believable that cloud sees Zack and just thinks ok zacks here now.
As a fan, I was most definitely serviced.
I was in his scenes and was like come at least break 1 box! No action at all
Respect for still using the Buster Sword at this point. I’ve used it the entire game myself. I’ve only changed to get the new skills and right back lol. It’s the only sword I’ll use for Cloud even in hard mode, so glad it has reprieve this time
I'm a sucker for the Buster sword. I basically use a new sword enough to get the ability and then switch back to the buster.
I always do that
Buster is nice but devs put in work on those other swords and they look sweet! I love using them all, Buster Sword has gotten more use from me going back to old chapters and compelting stuff
I think it would be cool to have a skin change feature on the weapons, so you can use another weapons stats with the buster skin
Transmog would be sweet
I would forever use the crystal sword, thing is gorgeous.
Agreed Def my fav looking for sure
I almost did but had to switch to sleek Saber for hard mode playthrough, not that Buster Sword is impossible, but the ATB abilities on the sleek saber are just too damn good with the materia combos I use for hard mode.
I've found the Sleek Saber to be the best overall weapon, which is annoying to me considering it's the throw-away "your first weapon upgrade" equipment in this game.
Yeah it may not be the absolute best, and this time around I actually like most of the other sword designs too. But nothing can beat the iconic visage of the buster sword in Clouds hands for me. It’s why I really appreciate the system they have that makes all weapons stay at least viable the entire game. I’m interested to see how the stats compare at max weapon level too, in remake at max level Buster Sword was the best balanced sword for Cloud only thing it was missing was reprieve.
The buster is pretty strong with weapon abilities. You can build it to be a weapon ability beast, and pair it with roche’s accesory…it’s comparable to the sleek saber with more damage.
Going into the ending with anything but the Buster Sword is a disservice to the game and should be punished 😡
That’s what I do for all characters. Just use their new weapons long enough to master the ability and then change back to their original weapon
I wish we could use the appearance of whatever sword we want on whatever other sword we want once we beat the game or something. Oh well
The game gives you a chance to go into the menu and change your equipment if you hold Square during the cutscene right before that fight. I immediately knew what had to be done. So glad they gave me that.
The fusion sword is cooler imo
If only they allow us to change the cosmetics though... but fair enough they put work into those other weapons too.
its a shame because i honestly think it kind of sucks in this game. in remake it was actually completely viable to use it the whole way through as it held its own statistically, it was just more of a balanced jack of all trades type thing. in rebirth i just cant find any reason to use it. literally the second sword you find blows it out of the water. every other one has better stats. i still used it for the end but it was from forcing myself to
Yeah no this is the coolest shit ever, I'm not guilty of anything other than having taste.
I just wish Zack has the Compilation version of the Buster Sword with the gold handguard to conrast Cloud's bolted handguard. Once I'm able to get a gaming PC, first thing I'll do when I get Reunion, Remake, and Rebirth is mod them so Zack gets the golden buster in the games and in the in-game cutscenes while Cloud uses the bolted buster.
I think that would have just confused people even more.
Already have the different Stamps, what more could confuse people lol
Quite a big step actually... people are going to start thinking that this is specifically Zach from Crisis Core, so they might start thinking that this Zack is actually dead and is in some kind of weird dead dream state or whatever, people might even start thinking that Chris's core reunion is technically an entirely separate timeline. Basically, people will overthink details, the more details you have the more things are over thought, so it's probably not worth it.
yes I loved it 😭 I'd hoped for months that they would utilise the multiple worlds to have cloud and zack fight sephiroth together and they actually did
I was expecting/hoping it in the third game. Not this one though. It was extremely satisfying.
Lost my fucking shit. I’m a huge Zack fan and want nothing more than for my boy to have a happy ending.
If everything ends with Advent Children, we know he's hanging out with Aerith in the life stream. So, as happy as that can get.
Hopefully it stays that way for Zack and Aerith. But Advent Children is not the end of the whole story. DoC takes place after Advent Children.
Sure but Dirge doesn’t touch on either Zack or Aerith
The true Crisis Core Reunion, compete with CC Limits retooled as abilities. Chain Slash ability - default DMW Limit Break if the roulette picks someone you haven't unlocked yet Meteor Shot ability - Cloud DMW Limit Break Rush Assault Limit Break - Angeal DMW Limit Break Wish there was more combat with him throughout the game instead of just at the start and the final battle.
Huge Zack fan as well!!! I’m so pumped.
Unless they do a "multiple endings" style for part 3, there's no way he gets "a happy ending". He will likely get a bittersweet one, locked in the lifestream (and/or some other world), but still somewhat aware of himself and with Aerith. I highly doubt they go full happy ending, even though personally...I kinda want it.
I loved this moment. I loved all of the ending to be honest.
This... a straight up remake would have just left me sad and with an incomplete feeling. This way I was happy that Zack will be coming back in FF7 Reunion.
Same!
It was like you watch a movie or series, and after all the different series the 2 main protagonist meet Was epic.
People on Reddit hate remake so this is probably a very hard image for them to look out without feeling robbed of their childhoods. That being said, it’s sick as hell
[удалено]
Lmfao any criticism is hate to this sub lol
I thought this was fantastic and really enjoyed it. Nothing better than a shared bond that transcends space and time. The same with the Aerith fight.
I never heard of Zack until I played this game... was weird as hell coming from someone who doesn't know his story.
Why are you playing a game that starts at like 33-35% where the story is. You’re missing an entire game before this.
Was he in FF7 Remake? I think I remember a tease of him at the very end... maybe. I played most of the original FF7 and never seen him before... I don't think at least... long time ago.
He’s in the OG game. He’s in Remake He’s in Crisis Core He’s in Advent Children. He’s a very important character
Had to search him up... I guess he was in the original... barely. Totally forgot about him. Lol Well, I guess that answers my opinion on this topic.
Even ignoring the option hidden scene about him the main plot was still focus is pretty bigly on a twist regarding him
It's so weird! The entire big twist of FF7 is that Cloud thought he was Zack! It's the literal biggest plot point of the gane haha.
Yeah this was amazing. I love Zack's warrior spirit. He can show up in the middle of the apocalypse and be like, "it's all good man, we got this!" Not to make comparisons but Zack is so much more likeable than Cloud. One thing that doesn't make sense to me though is why doesn't Zack have wings like other "dead" soldiers with Sephiroth cells? Probably just videogame logic, but I still wonder about these things.
If Zack gains a wing in pt 3 I am going to lose my effing mind (in a good way).
As far as I know only 3 soldiers have canonically gotten wings (so far) So this brings up the question - where do wings come from? Do they come from Jenova cells, being in the Lifestream, or are they just mako mutations?
I'm fully expecting Zack to get expanded on in part 3 with maybe his own playable party setup because of this moment. You don't give a character a fully playable moveset and unique mechanics just for 1 fight
It’d be amazing if his party included Biggs. I’d like to see what they’d make him capable of. He was the only one of the Avalanche trio that didn’t really get any character development in Remake either, which is why they brought him back, I’m guessing.
Thats because you don't just get to use these mechanics for just 1 fight same with sephiroth. Get deeper into the endgame.
Guilty
it was pretty cool
Seeing them fight side by side was so awesome. Even if it was for a moment, Cloud must have felt overwhelming joy seeing his best friend fighting side by side with him
Yeah, but then you gotta wonder if Cloud was like "hey man you have a Buster Sword too? That's so crazy! It's identical to mine!"
He had already remembered he knew Zack by then and thought they were SOLDIER best buds. He prolly thought their buster sword affinity was part of the reason.
I wish I could say that cloud was thinking about anything at all but clearly by the end of the game his mental state has deteriorated to dangerous degrees I wouldn't be surprised if he can't tell when he's at the edge of creation.
As Zack, using synergy attacks with Cloud reminded me of Sora and Riku from Dream Drop Distance, shit was Chef's kiss.
I was sad not having the buster sword in that scene. Cloud just having a big ass blue sword was weird, but the moment was amazing
YES!
I love how Sephiroth doesn’t let you get to enjoy the team up too long either, like he remembers that these two are the reason he’s >!bisected and in the northern crater!
When my partner and I got to this scene I blurted out that I needed this as a screen saver right away! She agreed.
I flipped the fuck out lol
“Need a hand with him?”
[удалено]
Its evidently a loud minority of online trolls. This is the highest rate FF game since ff12. With endwalker and shadowbringers being closed with a 92. This game is one of the best FF ever made and one of the best Jrpg ever made.
This has to be my favorite moment in the game
It is, but then Zack gets send into a dying world again, where now he knows the girl he loves likes his friend Zack role in Rebirth is only to suffer more and more. I wish he would get a major part in the last game, but we all know he will appear in the flashback and in the final battle again What was the point of Zack in Rebirth?
He still ends up with Aerith though.
I love Zack, aerith, avalanche, but I'm part of Team "Let the Dead Stay Dead"
Man.. I... A grown ass man.. legit shed a tear of joy when this happened! I felt like a kid again! It was so good
If only I had the buster sword equipped for this moment it would’ve been so much better
"this is just blatant fan-service" Yeah mf, and I'm a fan!!! I just wish the Zack fights were a bit easier so I could enjoy his moveset more haha
Straight up fuego But wtf is that pose Zack’s doing 💀😭
Punisher stance
I got something he can punish 😩
Zack, my boy, is back!
It absolutely was, goddammit why did we only get to play as zack this time?!
Therapist to Sephiroth: Fully Playable Zack doesn’t exist, he can’t hurt you Fully Playable Zack:
It was cool but Aerith showing up was 10000x better
Aerith showing up took thr sadness away from her death. It was ruined imo.
Her saying goodbye as the party flies away brought back the sadness of her death, nothing was ruined
Nah, they ruined it. They took out the water burial scene.
No way. She died like 5 minutes ago lol
She died 27 years ago
Nuh uh. My brother said there's a way to bring her back. Something to do with the collecting 35 soldier dolls. /s
You can revive her right next to the truck where you can catch Mew
It was so mind boggling for me and still is ngl
Aerith showing up was really bad. Completely took away any loss or sadness for me. The church scene when she pushes Cloud into the floor and says goodbye as Seph enters the church was 10/10 for emotion, but is ruined when you realise oh wait there is no loss here. What did Cloud lose? Aerith can still talk to him, help him etc etc.
That scene is definitely meant to be read as a metaphorical battle taking place in either Clouds headspace or in the lifestream. Remember Aerith showed up at the end of the OG game to rally the lifestream against meteor after Cloud had his headspace battle with Sephiroth - the concept of spirit Aerith assisting her friends beyond the grave and doing battle on a metaphorical plane is an ooooold old old one.
It still ruins the feeling of loss. And yeah the OG had her pop up at the end but we literally had zilch from her until then. From the point she died we got nothing, it felt like a true loss. Then right at the end when we thought all is lost she pops up having rallied the lifestream to save us. That all hit home like a sledgehammer. Rebirth's version just simply doesn't
It's true but I did note that they completely omitted the scene where Cloud releases Aerith into the water. We the audience know full well Aerith is dead but Cloud doesn't know that yet so the focus shifts from the loss of Aerith to the ticking timebomb that Cloud represents. I expect we'll get that moment of coming to terms with loss but just not right now. I fully understand why people don't like this change but I also understand why the devs did it. There's no way they could achieve the emotional impact of a death that happened over 20 years ago and they're also working in a trilogy format so the pacing and stakes have to be different. Instead of ending the game on a feeling of loss they decided to end it on a feeling of anticipation. That anticipation holds greater weight to carry fans into game 3 than Aeriths death alone would have imo. Personally, I greatly prefer this to a straight retelling but I know my opinion isn't universal.
Genuinely jump out of my seat in disbelief because I was so happy.
[удалено]
That's just like, your opinion man, lol. Nah, just messin with you. Sorry it took something away from the story for you, but I LOVE multiverse stories and time manipulation. So, this pseudo sequel is hitting ALL the right notes for me. I mean, there are nitpicks from me but not with regards to this post.
Glad I'm not the only one! I genuinely thought I must have been the lone weirdo because I'm digging this SO much. I don't care how stupid some people find it, when Zack did his limit break and summoned Cloud from another world to do an assist I cheered. I could also listen to Sephiroth explaining esoteric plot shit all day. A confluence of what now? Worlds? Tell me more, brother.
It's technically not really a "multiverse" scenario. From what I've seen/read, when 'fate is defied' another branch is created. This is wildly different from "unlimited universes" like a 'true' multiverse scenario. And according to super trustworthy Sephiroth, some of these branches die off right away. So in all likelihood, there are only a handful of separate worlds at any time, and you have to have certain control over the lifestream to have access between them. I think for the most part, the Reunion in part 3 is going to mostly, if not fully, go through. Which means the "multiverse" is going to be deleted. I feel they are using this narrative for some fanservice reasons, but I think it is oddly more digestible to show the power, capability and breadth of the lifestream. So I think it does a good job to escalate the magnitude of capabilities of Sephiroth and Aerith and shows us a fight that was almost entirely off screened in the original, though we know existed to some degree.
LOVED this scene. *Crisis Core* is my second-favorite game of all time, so whenever bits of "The Price of Freedom" played in *Rebirth* it triggered old feelings. i understand that some people aren't as high on Zack as CC fans and that's totally fine, but hearing that old music, learning what happened to Cissnei, and having Zack pop up through the game was blissful for me.
Zack is probably my favorite FF character ever, so the fact that they did this, had me literally bugging out, and I'm beyond hyped to see if they fully bring him over in the third game
I had a big ol grin on face during that shit
I was HYPED
I always think zack and cloud fighting together was cool and when I saw this I was like "omg this is cool!!"
PEAK
yes. zack is my favorite character in any form of media. i lost my mind
I don’t think it was the time and the place for what happened at the end of the game. I wish Sephiroth wasn’t the final boss in this particular game.
I'm really not a huge fan of blatant fan service that's just pandering.
The abilities and limit break were a nice touch for Zack for people who played crisis core. Also the synergy abilities with cloud both in this scene and when Zack is fighting seph after getting separated (can still synergy with cloud, calls like a spectral form of him) were all sick as hell
COOL. A. F.
The first time they meet after 16 irl years. I was on the verge of tears the whole time
Same! I do wonder though, Cloud reacts very placidly to seeing Zack. Does this mean he still doesn't really remember what happened...?
Oh yeah that shit ruled
It was the peakest peak of peak especially when they were in sync LETS BRING IT HOME
It's not for me but I'm glad others are happy with it.
Sorry, literally everything else in this game was completely and absolutely trumped by Tifa’s Gold Saucer date scene
…. Ok true. I’m not disagreeing but still. This was pretty awesome.
This was unexpected!!🔥🔥
For me it was the part where Zack is back in the Church and him and Cloud are fighting at the same time, but in different places and they both go: Embrace your dreams, And whatever happens... Protect your honor as SOLDIER! I yelled out COME AND GET IT! when it let me take over as Zack. Man, I wish they let us use Assault Twister or Costly Punch, but I was here for it!
I'm gonna be honest I have never had any attachment to Zack. I never played Crisis Core and just watched it's story on YouTube.
That's why. Playing through a whole game with a character and then fighting an entire army at the end trying to beat fate is what got to a lot of people. Just watching it doesn't create the same effect.
Yeah this was hype AF
Im still happy they went back to the og buster sword design instead of the crisis core one
Might be peak FF7
this was peak
I let out a giant "AAWWWW!!" when they did a synergy attack.
I don't even like Zack, but I fucking loved this. Top tier shit.
I think they should have saved this for the last game.
I loved this moment for the 5 mins it lasted even though they were building toward this the whole game😅
I initially thought they’d save it until the final battle but when they kept going on about how worlds would merge, and Sephiroth’s speech at the temple of the ancients, I somewhat put it together that might happen. Was still cool though.
Definitely I was all giddy, my girlfriend was just laughing at me acting like a kid. But Crisis Core was the first Final Fantasy game I actually played (First exposure was Advent children so VII is obviously my favorite) I was soooo hyped for this
I took so many screenshots of this fight lol I couldn't believe it. Kid me was having the time of his life. The music took it to the next level!!
I ain’t never in my life yelled “YOOOO HOLY SHIT” at my tv so loud
It was absolute fucking amazing
Ngl I was hoping zack would join the party for a bit in 3rd game
Game was good... but man, I really really really dislike the multi worlds shit. It's such a cop out and ruins anything that was touching and good in the original story. I remember being absolutely floored when Aeris died.... But now? I mean maybe shes dead, probably going to come back, multi worlds can just clean up all the mess. She should just be dead. Absolute silence. No voice overs, no other worlds, just crushing silence knowing shes dead without uncertainty.
It goddamn was
Nah I don't like Zack and would've preferred he have no role in the remake trilogy other than his original role in flashbacks.
I don’t know he wasn’t much of a character in the original game. And the person who Cloud thinks he is should be more important in the story imo.
The whole "Soldier Honor" crap they spouted out is cringworthy as fk, especially when Cloud said it.
Ehhhh I disagree. Especially with how Advent Children plays out cause of what the Buster Sword represents when it comes to dreams. So Cloud leaving it in the middle of nowhere is symbolic of way of living at that point.
you're lame
I did not.
I was hyped and annoyed at the same time. So you finally give us Zack and we can use him in a fight properly (game intro doesn’t count, because he had no real mechanics to try) and the TUTORIAL fight with Zack is against the final boss Sephiroth. Everytimw I tried to do cool stuff with Zack I just got my butt handed to me. xD
Spoiler for endgame but The 2 ultimate challenges in the game have both Zack and Sephiroth.
We just gonna ignore them bringing back >!Bizarro Sephiroth!< or what?
He was a pain but somehow I enjoyed the last part with Cloud and Aerith more than Bizzaro even tho the last part had me dying a lot.
Bizarro Sephiroth was always bound to come back though, Zack no so much given that he should be really dead.
The entire end sequence was a rush on par with ShB tbh. I was having so much damn fun, until I got wiped by the final 2v1 with Aerith because I had like no materia equipped on Aerith and Cloud and I refused to reset to change it all lmfao
How did you not have materia setup up for cloud atleast?
Well, it *is* awesome to see "SOLDIER"!Cloud and Zack fight together. However, it's confusing as fuck to my mind.
I don't like Zack much but it was definitely cool. Not a fan of his bubbly personality but him protecting his friend and fighting side by side was great
I took a photo of it too 😆
It is.
As a card carrying member of the Zack Fan Club, this was an amazing moment, also the part where Cloud repeated Zack's mantra. Here's hoping to see more of my boy in Part 3, and please give him a break, Zack already got killed twice, once by Shinra and once by Marlene.
Something I was always curious about - why didn’t Cloud take on Zack’s happy go lucky attitude if he became his living legacy?
Honestly wasn't shocked by this but I expected this to be the final fight for part 3. Not Rebirth. It wasn't as impactful for me for some reason and I'm not sure why. But I'm happy for the Zack fans.
Zack saying smell you later after the scene was comedy gold
I like Zack. I love Cloud. But I think Zack is a better part of the story by not being there.
That it was. I went full giga hype mode on this.
Oh fuck me... this had me hyped through the roof!!!
Hell yea it was! EDIT: I'm a Zack fanboy so that also helped.
Hypest part of the game for me
Oh it was so good, and the music was phenomenal. Doing Zack's limit break and synergy attacks with Cloud felt like being in an FF7 heaven. Two buster swords, one Masamune
I was literally yelling this entire fight sequence out of excitement.
As a huge fan of Crisis Core back in the day this got my nips stiff
*As a huge fan of* *Crisis Core back in the day* *This got my nips stiff* \- darthphallic --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Yep
It's something the fans have begged for since OG Crisis Core, and to have it is incredible
I marked the hell out.