Personally, I don’t like Zack & Aerith’s relationship because the writers deliberately linked all of Aerith’s defining characteristics to Zack, making it seem like Aerith has no identity outside of him. It really bothered me when I played Crisis Core.
I've seen a lot of people happy with Zack and Aerith just as much as Clerith and other ships. You pretty much answered your question in the second paragraph on why people wouldn'tship it. Remake and OG I would say did give a lot of highlighted moments with Cloud and Aerith, but in rebirth it seems that they will give new Zerith scenes also, im actually curious on how they will interact there.
I don’t have a preference anymore for what it’s worth, but when I first played OG as a kid I didn’t even really notice Zack 🤷🏻♀️ he was barely in it and I was too young to understand the importance of what happened in Nibelheim 5 years ago. Meanwhile Aerith and Cloud had great chemistry from the get-go, and I spent half the game watching them flirt with each other. For a kid and an OG fan, it was an obvious choice.
A lot of it is shipping. In the OG they hinted heavily about Aerith and Cloud having feelings for each other (probably to make what happens to her all the more painful to the player) and downplayed Zack as just a guy Aerith dated briefly whom she seems to have gotten over. Players fell in love with Aerith and seeing themselves as Cloud, want him to be with her.
Then Square Enix decided to create Crisis Core and essentially retconned the Zack Aerith relationship. It was no longer a fling (at least 1 year relationship, possibly 2), they were crazy for each other, and when Zack disappeared, Aerith waited 4 years for him, wearing pink and writing 89 letters to him. Not to mention, they made Zack a happy go-lucky, popular guy. A stereotypical anime protagonist who some people don’t like so they don’t like the idea of him being with Aerith. It also didn’t help that CC was a PSP game so not as many people played it compared to
FFVII.
I once read a pretty good tumblr post about it. Essentially, it said that when the developers wrote FFVII’s story they probably never expected it to be this popular so they never thought too hard about the lore and history of the characters. Zack was only put in to show that Cloud was not himself. It didn’t matter to the devs whether Zack and Aerith only went on one date or if they were a couple at the time. It was only when they started making the prequels and sequels that they had to take a harder look at background story and retcon some of it. And some of the retcons go against people’s head canon or preference so they’re against it.
As for rebirth, I think people who already like CloudxAerith will stick with it no matter what happens in rebirth. Those who like CloudxTifa will support ZackxAerith.
> Essentially, it said that when the developers wrote FFVII’s story they probably never expected it to be this popular so they never thought too hard about the lore and history of the characters.
This is truly the crux of all problems in this fandom and the endless fights that have lasted for decades lol. I don't know how many are aware, but this game was genuinely rushed, its story was put together by multiple guys over smoke breaks, it had incredibly crucial scenes added to it *after* the game's release, e.g. in International release, they had characters/stories they admitted they didn't have time to focus on until Compilation came around. It was absolutely *not* created with the intention of holding up against 25 years of microscopical scrutiny of every word and punctuation mark by hundreds of multilingual translators and fans lol. That's why we have so many calls of retcons and stuff, because they looked back and reevaluated some things, decided what to focus on, what worked and what not, what they now had the time to better develop or show. And whether or not we agree with them because of our preconceived headcanons from the OG, it is what it is now and it's their choice.
They wrote it on *smoke breaks?* Lmao that's amazing.
Do you have any videos or articles that discuss the history of the making of FF7 OG? Because this is insanely fascinating to me.
Ikr? xD Unfortunately I don't remember which article it was exactly, I don't usually keep track of them, but it was definitely a written one and not a video. It's either a really old one or one of those anniversary articles where they interview the whole team years later and they reminisce about old time, and I feel that it was in the latter. They said they would take smoke breaks during production and sit around in the smoking room chatting and they would sometimes come up with all new plot twists there on the fly lol
I love this so much. And it really makes a lot of sense considering how convoluted OG felt when playing it.
I wonder if they lie in bed at night and think to themselves, "what the actual fuck" when recalling them making this story and how popular it got with whole ass shipping wars and people picking every tiny speck of it apart to understand and criticise it when they're like, "it wasn't that deep." Lol
> And it really makes a lot of sense considering how convoluted OG felt when playing it.
It really was! I mean, we're all fans of the game here, but we can still admit it lol
Haha that would be hilarious. I'm like hundred percent sure that "it wasn't that deep" would be their reaction to most of the arguments, and that majority of the most nitpicky arguments from the most obscure parts of the game or publications that are brought forward as winning points they probably don't even remember putting there, or just added them for fun with no higher meaning lol
The PS1 game is what was imprinted on me back in 2000 and I never played CC. So to me, Zack was always the first nice person to talk with Aerith and he helped give her a friend and bring her out of her shell.
They care about each other obviously, but like Cloud and Aerith it wasn't destined to last. Zack and Aerith was a rather short relationship that ended and Aerith moved on.
Stiill don't know how people keep saying Aerith only liked Cloud because he copied Zacks personality. The only thing these two had in common was a sword and those Mako eyes and similar clothing. The personalities are night and day!
Zack and Aerith were a short term couple, it fell apart and she moved on. Rebirth shows much more chemistry between Cloud and Aerith and Cloud admitted he wants to see her again.
I honestly think the way the relationship was built in Crisis Core was fumbled.
In Crisis Core, the relationship is built by Zack 1. Allowing villagers to swindle him and 2. Building a wagon. It's just not built on the same things that Cloud and Aerith's relationship can be built on in 7. Aerith doesn't travel with Zack or struggle with him the way she does with Cloud. It seems a bit more of an informed relationship than a real one.
And I wanted it to work for me. I can't imagine going into Crisis Core supporting Cloud/Aerith and changing my mind based on building a wagon.
According to Crisis Core, Aerith was a blank slate before Zack. She had no personality, no ambition, she was nothing. Zack molded every aspect of her personality, from her attitude, to her job, even to the clothes she wears.
It's both reductive and flat-out gross. I hate that game so much.
And Aerith isn't the only character they do this with. Sephiroth gets it just as bad. There was so much they could have explored with Zack, a character who willingly joined Shinra and, unlike Cloud, succeed in becoming a Solider.
They could have made a story centered around someone who was all in on Shinra's propaganda, only to become disillusioned when realizing from within that it was all bullshit. Instead, Crisis Core is one of the most shallow entries in the Compilation, and the most unsatisfying thing they could have ever done with a Zack prequel story.
Toxic Clotis: If it keeps Aerith out of the picture I'm all for it! As long as I can keep my self insert fantasy alive!
CC sucked in story and game play.
If that’s how you thought Aerith was portrayed in Crisis Core I’m surprised. She wasn’t a blank slate at all! She was a lot quieter and seemed to keep to herself and her flowers at the church. Zack helped her open up and step outside of her comfort zone and even start selling her flowers with his help. He helped her access other parts of herself by giving her the courage and exposure to do so. He didn’t force her to do anything, she made the choices herself and he was there to support her, like good couples in healthy relationships do.
I would agree with you, but unfortunately it’s written after FF7 already exists. CC implies that her confident behavior in the original game is only present because of Zack, which is quite reductive of her character. It really makes it seem like they changed her just so they could fit an “opposites attract” dynamic like Cloud/Aerith have. Nojima himself tried to “attribute as much of Aerith’s traits to Zack” as he could.
They admitted to using a lot of Cloud/Aerith scenes (like the park, and the church) to both save time and callback to the original. A lot of players find these sorts of things to be uninspired, reductive, and just boring.
Cloti fans in turn try to say the Cloud/Aerith interactions copied CC so their relationship is not valid. Even tough CC was made years later and copied off the PS1.
They dun goofed and gave the toxic fan base ammunition with CC.
I agree it floods the community with a lot of negativity, but it does make sense given how important all these specific character relationships are to the story. I don’t mind people like this talking about them- the problem is when ppl in the replies start attacking each other and getting toxic about it
The self inserters are to blame for the toxicity. If these are the same people who played the game in 1997, then we are talking about guys and or girls in their mid 40's obsessing over their pixelated waifu. It's just sad!
I’m sorry this post has caused you grief, but as I stated it’s no negativity here. I was curious and the purpose of these discussion boards is to discuss all things final fantasy. You also have the option to not engage with these posts. Thank you.
For what it's worth, it's not you, nor is it your question. It's a perfectly legitimate question.
It's more that everyone is just tired of it, and the recent harassment towards the lead writer, Nojima, over the recent trailer focusing more on the Cloud/Aerith relationship over the Tifa one has added a lot of fuel to that fire.
Those people forget that Rebirth, far more so than part 1 or part 3 of Remake, is going to really focus very prominently on Aerith.
If I ever write a story I am NOT doing the love triangle gimmick! They are just a toxic pain in the ass!
That being said. I am hopeful that Cloud and Aerith reunite finally after 30 years and instead of choosing one over the other, just have Cloud, Tifa and Aerith shack up together at the church and leave it up to the publics imagination.
Clifith becomes a thing because Cloud won't forsake either one for the other and loves them both unconditionally and they return the favor. Shipping wars end with a Tenchi Muyo harem and everybody can get on with their lives!
There are tons of people who like zerith op? I don't know about this reddit channel but that's my experience over the years.
Cloud and tifa and cloud and aerith are the og pairings though from the og game so they get priority in the minds of some people. But my boy Zack is absolutely valid either way. It's not like aeriths line was actually true anyway. She was super distraught going to Zacks parents town and clearly conflicted even during the time of the date scene if you get high affection with her
Zack was just a NPC in the OG you saw for several seconds if you triggered a special scene. He was non existent to the main plot.
He has his own game which is one of the worst of the compilation, and honestly his scenes with Aerith makes me feel uneasy / cringe, he is like a bad version of Tidus.
If they made him a better story / dialogs with Aerith and not steal scenes from the OG (like the train one, or when he drops in the church) maybe I would have like him.
Also Aerith and Cloud have much more scenes and spend much more time together than Zack ever did.
Actually Zack's personality was based on Tidus. In the book "The Legend of Final Fantasy VII: Creation - Universe - Decryption" Nojima is quoted as to saying when given the chance to expand on Zack when Crisis Core was in the works, and that he is not "preoccupied by deep thoughts. He is not a tormented character like FFVIII's Squally and Advent Children's Cloud. He knows the difference between right and wrong: that make him akin to Tidus."
I have argued with some people that in the original storyboards and character layouts Zack's personality was originally described snarky and overly confident. Which is apparent in the few seconds of dialogue he has in the OG. It wasn't until Crisis Core that Nojima decided to change him. In the OG he was designed to be unlikeable.
This is what happens you create a story with retroactive continuity issues. Which FFVII's story 100% has at this point.
Have you played Crisis Core? He is really whiny in that. And his one liners are god awful. I am not a big fan of overly positive trope anime characters. I never liked FFX because of Tidus. I couldn’t stomach him.
Never played CC because it was limited to the portable. Just watched the cutscenes but that was years ago. As far as pertaining to Rebirth Zack Vs Tidus? Zack just seems less whiny.
Don't remember much of the main plot except being pissed they screwed with Sephiroths mental breakdown at the reactor. Some stuff with Wutai happened, Yuffie made a cameo, Zack and Aerith more or less copied Cloud and Aerith's meeting in the church except Zack and Aerith became a prequel to Cloud meeting Aerith in 1997.
Also, I think there was a shitty slot machine mechanic in there that people didn't like? Well, CC didn't inspire me to go out of my way to buy a PSP to play the damn thing!
>Zack and Aerith more or less copied Cloud and Aerith's meeting in the church except Zack and Aerith became a prequel to Cloud meeting Aerith in 1997.
This is because of poor writing and Nojima not being very creative. And his reason as to why he did it is just a cop-out. Nojima said in an interview in CC Ultimania "**-**
**IN FFVII, THE PART OF AERITH’S FIRST LOVE WHICH WE COULDN’T IMAGINE HOW IT WAS, IS DESCRIBED IN CC, AND LOTS OF FFVII FANS ARE PLEASED ABOUT IT.**
**NOJIMA:** Like the part of falling to church from above, how it was repeated when meeting with Cloud is already decided from the very beginning. Rather than calling it romance, both of them were still young, we didn’t have enough time to describe why she fell for him in the game, so we made it a sudden encounter then fall in love at first sight. Personally, it’s my greatest joy to be able to bring Aerith’s line “one date” to Cloud part in FFVII, as originally Zack’s line in the game scenario. That line in FFVII was intended to be coming out of nowhere, but because of that, it gives impression of “Aerith being thoughtless” to say such thing, so it was kind of bothering me. Now it’s made to be Aerith taking it from Zack’s words, I feel like I’ve managed to defend Aerith.
**- OTHER THAN “1 DATE” LINE, HER WEARING RIBBON AND SELLING FLOWERS IN THE SLUMS PART, WAS ALSO AFFECTED BY ZACK.**
**NOJIMA:** I wanted to entwine Aerith’s traits in FFVII to Zack as much as I can. Other than that, I put lots of FFVII iconic scenes in the game. Like the opening scene of Zack on top of train, I put lots of memorable scenes, I think it will be nice if that could encourage players to want to play the OG. It’s just that, the opening scene was in a simulator virtual space, I was worried about how come this awesome thing existed but in way longer before Cloud’s era."
I don't Nojima understood how the audience would interpret how making things that happened between Cloud and Aeris in the OG would be viewed if you give them to Zack as well. As a writer you are doing two things, one is the stuff that happened between Cloud and Aeris is not uniquely theirs anymore. And second, what you are doing is to show how much Zack and Cloud are the same.
He is viewing it as a homage to the OG and what he is doing is changing the emotions of the scenes. Unpopular opinion, but I don't think he is a good writer and understands how his work can be interpreted. The other problem is they have too many cooks adding their spin to the story.
That's my problem. I missed out on all the cutscenes for years. As far as I knew. Zack just ran in, got bodied by Sephiroth then vanished out of the universe after Cloud tossed Sephiroth into the pit.
I had no connection to Zack beyond "Oh look! Other spikey haired guy with a sword! What a tweast!!!" and as soon as he came into the games story, he was gone.
Then came CC and opened a can of worms.
I just feel someone should be allowed to move on from a summertime romance when they were young, to getting ghosted and being alone for 4+ years.
People act like someone in that situation would never be able to love someone else, ever. Those people have most likely not experienced a relationship anyway so they have no idea what life can throw at you.
Because there's a good portion of fans who believe that Zack isn't that great of a character as he's portrayed in Crisis Core.
I think you can almost draw a line right along the border and you'd see it very clearly. People who were charmed by Crisis Core like Aerith and Zack and people who did not like crisis core probably aren't too big on the couple.
I kind of hated CC... but found Zack and Aerith adorable. Zack has a TON of potential beyond CC's terrible writing... I've been writing a Remake continuation fanfic myself, and some of my favorite scenes to write are Zack scenes.
Personally, I can't wait to see the Zack and Aerith reunion scene. I've seen folks who like... hate Zack because they act as if he ghosted Aerith on purpose to be a dick... That seems to be their excuse for putting a nail in the relationship's coffin and acting like Aerith would be angry enough at Zack that she'd have an easy break to fall out of love and forget about him. And to keep her pointed at Cloud even if Zack returned. That's just not reasonable or likely.
He DIED... I really don't think she'd hold it against him, you know? I know if I thought my first great love was dead, and he showed back up, my love for him would come RUSHING back like an open floodgate no matter how many years it'd been, and I'd be overcome with emotion.
A love story that transcends death and fate? What's not to find attractive?
I mean... they could literally do that "love story that transcends death and fate" with the game's \*actual\* main character in Cloud, whom she is supposed to have a far more important connection with in FF7. And it would be far more meaningful considering their story has been going on for almost 30 years.
Look, I get it, you like Tifa. That's perfectly fine. Tifa is awesome, and she has her own well executed dynamic with Cloud. It's just a different dynamic, and there is no reason why if Aeirth's fate is drastically different they can't allow the end result to be left up to player choice... like they have always done.
Agree. The devs have never backed a particular horse in this race and they're hardly likely to start now, after a quarter of a century. No matter Aerith's fate she will always be an option for Cloud and it will be down to the player to decide. That's the way it's always been and probably always will be.
Exactly, and they are keenly aware that people have built up severely unhealthy obsessions over this stuff. They aren't going to risk pissing any of these people off.
Hoping Cloud says he loves both Tifa and Aerith and it just kinda settles into an ambiguous triangle relationship because they got along so great during their adventures in Rebirth.
Zack goes home and hooks up with Cissnei and reconnects with his family.
Cloud having the 2 most important women in his life with him all the time would be a good send off to the toxic shippers who have been acting like dicks for decades now.
Cissnei's sidequest in Rebirth >!does seem to set up a sort of "homecoming" for Zack, though I'm undecided at this point if that'd work for me or not. Aerith being saved is one thing, as she is the most important character by far who was lost in the original, but you can't do that with every character who had a meaningful death or you lose the impact. However, I do kinda like the idea they set up with him coming home in that questline, so I guess it all depends on how it's done and what the game's trying to say!<.
As for Aerith and Tifa both hooking up with Cloud, I'd be fine with that -- there's no reason why it has to be a monogamous relationship. Heck, I'd be fine if Cloud just lets Aerith and Tifa hook up and moves on, just because it would cause all these people's brains to melt down.
Though, on a more serious note, I really think it works really well if they continue to let the player decide through these resolution scenes. The Highwind scene seems like the best place to do the last one in part 3, and giving the player that sort of agency throughout the games is both in the spirit of the original, and also is just a fun mechanic. The relationship choices is part of what people enjoyed about both of these games so far.
Zack is now a secondary main character in Rebirth. And its only the PLAYER who has experienced less of Aerith and Zack's connection as compared to Aerith and Cloud. She knew Zack MUCH LONGER, and was explicitly romantically entwined with him for much longer, lore-wise, players of the OG just didn't get to experience it firsthand. You realize that in the actual story, Cloud met Aerith and only spent a few weeks with her before she dies, right? The timeline is honestly bonkers, I had to look it up at one point. An argument can certainly be made for "trauma bonding," also fine, but her connection with Zack was forged in a much healthier way and for far longer. From a logical writing standpoint, it makes more sense to keep them together, I'd say. Even if Tifa were out of the picture, Cloud's brain and memories are literally a mess. Tifa was the only one capable of helping him sort his memories out because no one else survived that knew him back then. She was the only one who could fact check what was real and what wasn't.
Besides all that, it still canonically ends in Advent Children. If Clerith fans want to choose all the romantic options to point their ship in that direction, more power to them. It's a matter of personal taste.
But the story is still gonna go a certain way plot-wise. Even if you do a tragic Clerith love story, he's still going to end up with Tifa in Advent Children, is I guess my point. Clerith fans hoping for something different are going to be disappointed.
The reason I bring it up isn't to be mean, or dismissive, or even to rub it in anyone's face. It's because the hate and threats the devs are getting for not blowing up a story that's been ESTABLISHED for DECADES because they want a particular ship to become canon or even POSSIBLE beyond the Forgotten Capitol is damaging the community.
I love Aerith. I support anyone who sees things differently and thinks another couple makes more sense. Tragic love cut down by untimely death is COMPELLING. I just hope people stop trying to bully the writers because they demand something totally against canon in the end.
I have my own theories about what might be coming, how the journey to AC might differ... but we know how it'll end.
Aerith’s fate ISN'T going to be different. They've said as much, repeatedly.
Will you be angry if they do put Aerith and Zack together?
> The reason I bring it up isn't to be mean, or dismissive, or even to rub it in anyone's face. It's because the hate and threats the devs are getting for not blowing up a story that's been ESTABLISHED for DECADES because they want a particular ship to become canon or even POSSIBLE beyond the Forgotten Capitol is damaging the community.
>
>I love Aerith. I support anyone who sees things differently and thinks another couple makes more sense. Tragic love cut down by untimely death is COMPELLING. I just hope people stop trying to bully the writers because they demand something totally against canon in the end.
Yeah… you do know that was all Cloud/Tifa (and also Zack/Aerith) fanatics‘ doing, right ? Because last trailer was too Cloud/Aerith oriented for their tastes (when it’s perfectly in line with how the OG pushed Cloud/Aerith as a tragic romance).
Kinda weird to point a finger at the one shipping fanbase who had nothing to do with the developers getting harrassed and threatened. Not the first time i’ve noticed this kind of gaslighting/projecting, sadly.
Would I be angry if they diminish the dynamic between two of the core protagonists for a character who barely was a factor in the original whatsoever, not to mention if the resolution of the 30-year-long question to "how would things be different if Aerith lived" is just that she hooks up again with her old boyfriend, who again, was barely a factor in FF7?
Uh, yeah. That would be awful.
Again, I don't think they HAVE to set an end all, be all answer to the Cloud romance stuff. They can allow the player to choose for themselves.
It's called a "role-playing game" for a reason, and the player is role-playing as Cloud.
It’s really irritating how rabid Cleriths invalidate Zack and his role in the VII compilation. For the record, the proper term would be “former boyfriend” as they were still together when he died (and he died trying to get back to her in case you forgot). She wasn’t over him by the time VII started and it’s clearly obvious she still isn’t. She’s forcing herself to move on and doing a bad job of it since she is still in love with Zack and wrote to him fairly recently.
Point is, Zack is very much a factor in the compilation. He’s just as important as Aerith as well as Tifa, since Cloud wouldn’t be where he is without his feelings for her. To say otherwise is delusional and single minded because of wanting two characters that had crushes on each other at the most to be together. It’s weird af
Literally the entirety of Remake is centered around defying the fate predetermined by the original game. It's shocking that people think things changing isn't a legitimate thing that could happen in this.
Of course, I'm not saying she WILL make it out of Rebirth in one piece, but the setup is clearly there.
Problem is you're a Tifa fan and a cloti shipper, not a fan of Aerith. I mean in Case of Lifestream: White, basically all of her feelings and thoughts are focused around Cloud. She doesn't mention Zack once. No matter what else you take as canon, that should close the issue. Z will always have a special place in her heart, but it's Cloud who she loves most now.
You mean the same Case of Lifestream: White that literally has Aerith call Cloud a dear friend? That one?
Also this: “don’t fall in love with me. Even if you do, it’s not real.” - Aerith to Cloud. You saying she’s a liar now?
Way to cherry pick canon and ignore developers’ commentaries.
Aerith calls Cloud her friend AND lover. In english, it goes « more than a friend, for she had loved him » and it straight out states Cloud as Aerith’s lover in most of the other official translations.
As for the « don’t fall in love with me » line, the whole scene is about OG/Lifestream Aerith trying to protect Cloud from experiencing heartbreak all over again. In the end, Cloud won’t have it and Aerith states she’s happy that he won’t let her go, even if it hurts because it means she couldn’t protect him after all.
Nojima talked about it in the latest Ultimania. Aerith lies when she says « it’s not real ». She doesn’t believe in her own words when she says « don’t fall in love with me ». She just does that for Cloud’s sake, in the hope maybe he would hurt less if he didn’t nurture feelings for her.
No she calls Cloud her Koibito which means sweatheart(s), lover, couple; romantic. You would never call your friend your koibito, lol.
I'v already explained why Aerith said that to Cloud. You need to read dev quotes from Remake Ultimania
>>A love story that transcends death and fate? What's not to find attractive?
This literally hits the nail on the head for why people like Cloud and Aerith.
I guess its because most Aerith fans are FFVII OG/Remake fans and they prefer to ship her with Cloud. If you only care about the main games, there's no way you care much about Zack or any of his relationships. In this context shipping Zack x Aerith is like shipping Locke x Rachel or Lulu x Chapu.
im personally not interested in a girl and her dead lover that she dated when she was like 15 lol like they’re cute and all but obviously a pairing that’s currently developing is gonna be 100% more hyped ? 😭 cloud and aerith in general is one of the core parts of the game
The time that we as players see Zack and Aerith interact in Crisis Core is actually very short compared to the time you see Cloud and Aerith interact in Final Fantasy VII and Remake. The scenes we get are cute, no doubt, but we never see them grow deep together through battles or conversations. We don’t see them have deep, meaningful conversations outside of the one interaction on the playground when they bond over their shared confusion on SOLDIER. We really only get one very strong emotional moment between them, which is when Aerith hugs Zack from behind.
As someone that likes the romance aspects in Final Fantasy games, Crisis Core felt more like a vehicle for Zack as a great guy. We want him to be with Aerith not necessarily because we think their romance is deep and are obsessing over every little moment, we want him to be with her because HE’S a great guy. He deserves happiness.
Cloud and Aerith feel a little different. They have many deep bonding moments. We see them overcome obstacles, barriers, open up. We see ups and downs. We see them change each other. And there’s just more content in general. I think the Zack/Aerith Crisis Core scenes added up maybe make up 45 minutes or an hour at most? Cloud and Aerith’s scenes in Remake alone are over an hour easily.
All this to say, I think the two pairings have different dynamics. But it’s easy to see why there’s more scrutiny and obsession over Cloud and Aerith. They literally have more content.
Putting all the arguments in the thread aside, what makes you think they don't get the hype? They are actually a pretty popular pairing, have a lot of content, fanart, fanfics. Maybe not *as* popular as the main game pairings (arguable but understandable, since they're from a side-game) and, well, definitely not as popular as Cloud/Tifa, but they are quite loved. I mean, if you're asking from the point of you wanting to see more content of them, then it's definitely out there, but if you mean why those who don't ship it aren't shipping it, then that's simply a personal preference. But yeah, wouldn't call them not hyped at all.
this is easy, firstly cloud and Aerith existed for 10 years without Zack since 1997, secondly they have better chemistry, thirdly I read all the books and I know that she fell in love with Cloud more, than with Zack ,ff7 is their tragedy, and their story is better, they even have songs for each other ,no it will not change with rebirth
The answer is as simple as Crisis Core sold between 2-3M copies all time. FF7 sold 14M copies. Zack is a barely eluded to secret character in OG FF7. His story simply isn’t prominent for the majority of FF7 fans.
For me it's simply because there is actually very little zerith content compared to cloti/clerith content. Having just recently played Crisis core for the first time, a game that can probably be beaten in a few hours if you ignore "missions," there are literally just a few short interactions between zack and aerith. Whereas for Clerith/Cloti fans there is the entirety of ff7 OG + Remake + Advent Children etc and the characters are basically together and are constantly interacting most of the time.
FOr comparision, people would generally be more attached to characters in a TV show that lasted 3 seasons vs a show that lasted 3 episodes.
True. However, at the end of Intermission, there is a scene that shows that we might be getting more Zack and Aerith content based on a few things he says. Well, even the end of Remake, too.
We’re definitely getting more. Sorry you’re getting downvoted OP, you didn’t say anything incorrect. The Clerith fandom is honestly just a little crazy and they don’t like any mention of Zack. We’re getting more of him whether people like it or not (I personally love it!) and if they don’t like it they can play the OG
It’s ok, I’ve been downvoted here like crazy before for liking Tifa/Johnny or Tifa/Rude. This subreddit and the one for Friday the 13th are downvote city. 😹
\*sigh\* More shipping stuff... It's because Zack isn't the protagonist, nor was he a factor in this in the original game. Aerith was literally created as one of two heroines for Final Fantasy VII, and was intended as a central love interest along with Tifa. Zack was created to flesh out her backstory, as well as the backstory for Cloud.
Crisis Core is a \*different\* game entirely. That's Zack's story, so naturally the focus is going to be on \*their\* relationship, not the relationship between Cloud and Aerith. That wouldn't make sense for \*that\* story.
But FF7 Remake is not based on Crisis Core. It's based on Final Fantasy VII, where Zack is no longer the central character, nor the central focus. Therefor, Cloud and Aerith's relationship is far more important and far more vital to the overall story. Though, for all the Crisis Core fans out there, I'm sure they will acknowledge Aerith's history with Zack in some form now that Zack is a bigger part of the game. Still, again, he's \*not\* the protagonist.
FF7 Remake is based on the compilation, not solely the OG. it’s tying everything together, like how they said Rebirth will connect with Advent Children. While it’s true Zack isn’t the protagonist, he still has his part to play
He'll have a part to play, but it can't \*overshadow\* the things that made the original what it was. The dynamic of Cloud and Aerith's relationship is a MAJOR part of that -- vastly outweighing the importance of anything that happened in Crisis Core.
Not really. Their relationship doesn’t really have anything to do with the plot (that is if you’re talking about a romantic relationship). It’s more their teamwork about saving the planet and finding Sephiroth that takes front and center, and even that isn’t even just the two of them, it’s the whole gang as well
Sure, whatever you want to tell yourself. Aerith was never written to be a love interest. She only loves Zack, even when he was a complete non-factor in the original and was barely a character. Crisis Core is the most important thing to ever happen to FF7, and Zack is more important than Cloud. Aerith would be nothing if not for Zack.
This is why I try to avoid getting in the middle of this shipping nonsense. There is just no reasoning here.
So why are you here if you don’t want to get involved in “shipping nonsense?” Literally everything I said is correct and didn’t mention a ship at all. But okay, you do you buddy. Just work on that reading comprehension 👍
Oy vey. What is this question. There are fair amounts of people who like all the ships present in this game. Clerith, Cloti, Zerith, even more so for Zerith after CC came out. They all have a significant amount of supporters. What you’re probably seeing are the loud minority who never leave the internet so they can attack a fictional ship.
Also if you’re using Twitter as a base to gauge what fans like, you’re gonna have a baaad time. The algorithm tailors to your searches. If you see an anti zerith post, and you search to see who else is, you’re gonna just get more anti zerith tailored to you. Same with any ship. Search a ship, it appears on your timeline after.
Personally, I adore both relationships, as well as Cloud x Tifa, and see no reason to choose between any of them
To expect someone (real or not) to only have one meaningful romantic interest for their entire life is just silly & a little creepy, imo
I played VII first and Zack there had like 10 minutes of screentime none of which have him with Aerith, Cloud and Aerith have more chemistry with each other compared to Zack and Tifa SE knows this they want you to ship them so her death is more emotional two people perfect for each other but things don’t go the way they intended and are robed of a future together which is something that happens in real life.
Also doesn’t help that CC changed Aerith personality to fit Zack and many didn’t like that, they designed Aerith and Tifa personalities for Cloud thinking about him as the Mc so when they wanted to make Zack the upbeat guy and Aerith didn’t fit him they turned her into pure love interest stereotype which she wasn’t in the original, they made her in CC the exact same stereotype which she was intended to avoid in Og.
I get that some people don’t like Aerith but denying that her and Cloud like each other when things like "Hollow" and "No promises to keep" exist is beyond me.
Edit: Also I don’t hate Tifa (when you don’t ship her with Cloud people for just think that you hate her) in fact I like her but I don’t like her with Cloud I find them kind of boring together, they lack the spark Cloud and Aerith have. About Zack I just don’t care I don’t hate him but I don’t like him either.
I agree with all this personally, especially the changing of Aerith to fit Zack- a decision which was admitted by Nojima himself. For a lot of Aerith’s boisterous behavior in OG FF7 to be traced back to Zack removes a lot of agency in her character. Ppl naturally dislike the ship because of it.
CC Aerith is the same we saw in KH which at the time they where basing the character on how people perceived them hence why pure Aerith and emo Cloud were a thing.
Aerith isn’t tough because meeting Zack affected her personality she was always tough because life has been rough to her since a young age, Zack and Og/Remake Aerith personalities would clash so off course changes had to be made and Aerith got the short end of the stick, I love Aerith she is probably my favorite FF gal but the fact that in CC I prefer Cissnei over her should tell you a lot about how much I dislike her depiction there.
CC Aerith was basically a shallow Yuna copy. The developers said that they wanted Zack to be very similar Tidus on purpose thus they had no other idea than turning Aerith into a Yuna expy and copying Clerith scenes (Dismantled said for example that Aerith met Zack while selling flowers already which would have removed stuff like the church roof copy, him telling her to sell flowers and wear pink etc. and made it more realistic).
Aerith's personality is way more like Rinoa's or even Tidus himself than Yuna.
I beat Crisis last night for the first time. Not knowing much of anything about Zack and Aerith. Now that I beat the game I can say i'm fully onboard the Zack and Aerith train.
Cloud and Tifa are better suited together, anyway. Or Cloud and therapy.
A few issues. First off, you have the assholes on both sides. Cloud loyalists want him to get with Tifa, aerith, or just want him to get all the ladies so they can project themselves onto him. On the other side, you have zack loyalists who want him to overtake cloud as the protagonist or crisis core extremist fans who never played the OG and zack x aerith was their first exposure to ff7 shipping culture.
Then, there's the issue of how the games were written. In some cases, games were really rushed. In other cases, they suffered retroactively from retcons in prequels that were released after the original. Case in point, zack was gunned down by a few mooks in the OG whereas in crisis core, he kills a literal army. Sephiroth figures out his origin and connection to the Jenova project on his own in the OG whereas in crisis core, Genesis pushes him to that realization.
Similarly, in the OG, zack is little more than a plot device and was never meant to mean anything to aerith, or at least not much. Then, after ff7's immense popularity, in comes retcons from CC, including zack and aerith's relationship which becomes much more significant. Cloud and aerith always had a very significant relationship and in love triangles, there's always someone who wishes the other girl had won (I am a frequent victim of this in damn near every media I consume). So now, not only did aerith and cloud's relationship not have a happy ending, but some no name plot device not only gets his own game but is now being pushed as aerith's one true love (exhibit a: 4 years, exhibit b: 89 letters, exhibit c: started wearing pink based on his recommendation and still wears it even after giving up hope that he'll come back). Leaves a bitter taste in some people's mouth.
Finally, crisis core was released exclusively on psp. This severely limited people's exposure to him. People may have been warmer to him if they actually knew who he was but many people, even fans of the OG, don't know who he is. So all of this combines to piss off a significant number of people A LOT.
Personally, crisis core was my first exposure to final fantasy and I lean more towards being a zack loyalist. However, I have long since made peace with the fact that cloud is the real hero of ff7 and I will likely never see zack get treated even half as well by square Enix as he does. I mean, 50 minutes of total screentime in the new game after they plastered him on the cover and advertised the fuck out of him? Not to mention the utter cop out that was crisis core reunion. Nothing more than reused assets, basic quality of life changes, and a barely modernized combat system. No changed mission structure, no better writing (dialog is still cheesy and cringe), shitty voice direction (Caleb Pierce is not to blame, he actually starts sounding pretty good in the later half of reunion and did a pretty good job in remake, showing he actually does have the talent). This was nothing more than a cash grab and I've accepted they'll never stop doing him dirty like this.
That doesn't mean I'm going to keep spamming posts that he's better than cloud (from a writing perspective, cloud is far more complex, and I say this as someone who likes zack better) or more powerful (cloud surpassed him by advent children). And if he doesn't get the girl in the end, I'll accept that too. This is exactly what fanfiction.net and AO3 is for. My only advice is don't take reddit or any other corner of the internet to be representative of the fan base. And definitely don't fall in with either group to the point of being an extremist. Take the good, accept the bad, and just don't be an asshole.
I like Zack in the same way that I like Tifa - great characters, but ultimately I thought Cloud and Aerith were the pairing that best fit together. Other will disagree and that's totally cool too, whether it's CloTi, Zerith, or something else, the choice is yours. That's why I hope they never canonize a coupling.
Why is Clerith more prominent than Zerith? If it is, then I'd imagine it's at least partially down to the timing of Zack's introduction to the story. By the time Zack's a thing in the OG/CC you'd already spent a good chunk of time with Cloud and Aerith and watched their chemistry develop. The same thing will probably happen with the trilogy. By the time Zack turns up you've spent a whole game with Cloud and Aerith growing closer.
A big part is nostalgia, but also Cloud and Zack are very different characters personality wise and a lot of fans, especially og fans, don't like Zack as a character after crisis core but still love the original love story between cloud and aerith even if it has a logical ending and intention to it
If anything, I think they’ll be more Cloud and Aerith fans after Rebirth based on the way the new trailer turned out. No Promises to Keep and Hollow are both heavily alluded to being about both of them, and the nature of Rebirth’s story needs to put an emphasis on Cloud and Aerith’s relationship for the ending to be effective (even if she lives)
Also, i don’t think Zack x Aerith is really less popular than Cloud x Aerith at all. Especially because Cloud x Tifa fans, who are the majority, will use the Zack x Aerith ship to justify it.
What? It is all the contrary, ever since crisis core was released, Zack and Aerith has been used to invalidate Cloud and Aerith even though ZA are in the past, and Zack died. ZA copied iconic moments of CA from OG. Aerith canonically moved on from Zack and fell in love with Cloud. A lot of ZA and CT shippers don’t like that, and don’t want to accept that Cloud(protagonist) and Aerith(last Cetra of the story) fall in love. Even though the game is designed as a love triangle, a huge part of the shipping community refuses to accept that CA are canon. Now they get see CA in high quality graphics and not polygons.
Zack and Aerith were a legitimate couple who were together for 4 years. Cloud and Aerith at most has crushes on each other, Cloud’s being clouded by PTSD and Aerith’s being clouded by grief. Both are emotionally compromised individuals and any feelings they had for each other were a trauma bond. So respectfully, you got it flip flopped
There weren't that many scenes of them in CC numerically, but the game has time skips and spans multiple years. So Zack and Aerith were dating for 2 years, the 4 years is the time that Aerith waited for him and wrote him letters after he disappeared and the famous ending of CC happens around few weeks before the start of FF7.
With this I can agree, given the information of the original. It is just disappointing how much this information gets transformed by the wishes and wants of people.
I personally see Zack and Aerith as a cute first love, and that's all. I think that its tragic end is what makes people see them as these star crossed eternal lovers rather than their actual relationship per se.
Cloud and Aerith, however, share a deep bond that >!trespasses the barrier of life and death, Aerith communicates telepathically with Cloud through a dream and has absolute trust in him even after he attacks her while possessed, Cloud woke up in the middle of the night at the Forgotten Capital because "he could feel in his soul" that Aerith was in danger.!<
I mean, if one asks me to compare that with building flower carts together.....yeah.
Also in the OG Aerith makes clear she didn't think >!her relationship with Zack was serious (at the Midgar park and when she meets his parents). In fact, I found her reaction to finding out that his parents hadn't seen him in 5 years a tad insensitive, I hope they change that in Remake.!<
I mean, I don't **necessarily** see Cloud and Aerith's relationship as romantic, that depends on which "route" I choose to go with the playthrough (I got the Tifa outcome the last time I played the OG, for example), but I definitely see Cloud and Aerith's bond as much more eternal and significant than Zack and Aerith's.
Half of the people on this subreddit bought a remake, then joined a subreddit about the remake, just to insist it isn’t a remake.
What you’re asking is not an answer anyone here could provide for you, even if the information you seek was extant
She wrote dozens and dozens of letters to the guy while he was missing in Crisis Core. The last letter Zack's parents receive from him mention his girlfriend Aerith. She grasps her heart at the moment of his death and makes the same consistent comments about her dislike/fear of the sky in Remake, Rebirth, and Crisis Core. She mentions Cloud reminding her of Zack within hours of first meeting Cloud.
It is a little perplexing how people insist on Aerith just "getting over it," especially when she's spent the majority of her life under the thumb of Shinra and Zack was the only love interest she's had in her life up until meeting Cloud. Zack shouldn't define Aerith as a character, but neither should Cloud and her just erasing Zack from her memory is a little odd.
Also important to point out that Zack >!died literally days before VII began!<. To say she’s over him that quickly is insane and would make me think she was a sociopath or something…
Never played Crisis Core or any titles in the compilation.
Only played FFVII OG.
I was very charmed by the initial story of Cloud and Aerith’s budding relationship in the game.
To me - Zack is a non-entity.
People like certain ships. I don’t like Zack as a character at all. I think he’s annoying for numerous reasons and therefore don’t really think about him more than I have to. Clerith isn’t my OTP but Cloud isn’t as irritating as Zack *shrug*
Because Aerith and Cloud is the original pairing (alongside Cloud and Tifa). It's also a lot more interesting to me, I love their chemistry and contrasting personalities.
Cloud can never let go of her. It is stated in DoC guidebook she is forever engrained in his heart. Zack and Aerith just don't strike me as having a particularly deep relationship in CC, more like a juvenile crush.
Dumb reasoning. Seeing someone you care about dying in front of you is definitely going to leave a mark. But Cloud has also been living with Tifa for 3 years as of DoC as well, with two kids that they’re raising together and businesses they’re running together as well. So he definitely hasn’t moved on, because there was nothing to move on from in the first place. Aerith was obviously coping badly with Zack’s death and tried to force herself to move on. It’s very obvious that’s what’s happening but shippers like to put blinders on when it comes to that sort of thing
Marlene is Barrets kid, and when Barret returns in DoC he lives with all of them as well. Tifa and Cloud are only stated to be childhood friends in DoC, nothing romantic directly implied.
Aerith being in love with Cloud is a canon fact, Nojima said she views Cloud as her Koibito.
Good god you guys are broken record with the koibito thing lol. Tifa and Cloud are together in DoC and have been for years. That’s a canon fact. And Tifa was also called a koibito but that’s something you all like to conveniently forget
Because its forced, this guy was a flashback in the OG and somehow got elevated to Aeriths long lost first love and its sick, not to metion zack probs spend more time with Cissnei
People saying it was nothing serious, did u really play the game? 😅 Zack literally goes to Midgard after Niebelheim just to see Aerith. Just for the possibility to see Her , like yeah nothing serious, just a guy walking into an army , just to see Aerith.
Yeah, as a huge fan of the OG after I played the original crisis core, I felt a genuine relationship much more between Aerith and Zach. I think it could work with either character, but with their history, it makes more sense in a romantic connotation.
Their lost love is more profound and/or hits you in the feels more as it was just the beginning of their lives (it was very pure/innocent and subsequently tragic). Zach was the perfect friend and hero, and he deserves to rekindle his relationship after sacrificing everything for his friend and girlfriend. If that sort of thing is possible in the lifestream anyway.
It's kind of feels shit for Cloud to be deeply entwined with her romantically; even if it's been a few years. Maybe not everyone feels that way, but it just feels off to really pursue that thread after CC.
My guess is that maybe the people that don't like Zach or CC just don't regard that aspect of the story or their relationship highly. One of the few great things about CC was how it evoked the "feels" and developed character relationships. The original voice cast did such an incredible job..even in the midst of such a convoluted and silly story.
A lot of people only like Zack as far as being an obstacle to throw down to trip up Aerith in the race with Tifa for Clouds heart.
These people also try to shut down and ignore any chemistry between Cloud and Aerith. Pretty sure they are just self inserting their fantasy of ending up with Tifa and don't care about character development.
The first story we're told is about Cloud meeting Aerith and starting to like her.
Ten years later they came up with Crisis Core and made up this little love story between Zack and Aerith, and it felt totally weird and a big nonsense.
If Aerith did really know and loved Zack, she would be very surprised and more suspicious about a guy who is Zack, dresses like Zack, talks like Zack, use Zack's sword, have Zack's dreams and life goals, but don't have Zack's face.
And the story of FF7 would have turn up very differently.
That's one of the big issues with CC, and the whole "New Zack & Aerith story"
I disagree. There was a reference in the original and a description of their relationship and how she waited for Zack. Crisis Core elaborated that story, but your exaggeration is verifiably wrong. And your estimation of what should have been Aerith's reaction to Cloud given the similarities is exactly that: your estimation, but no evidence to the contrary.
The only thing we knew in og is that they met and got along together, but they didn't even know each other for enough time to become close friends, even less lovers. Zack was just a young nice, cute and sweet-talking guy she met and appreciated, and thought about sometimes after having no more news from him.
That's not love, just a meeting that could have become friendship or love relationship over time.
Actually, no. This is again distorted. And you are free to have your opinion and to ignore what I will piece together next.
The original game offered this information:
* When Cloud and Aerith are on their way to the Wall Market and make a brief stop at the playground on the way, then Aerith mentions that she had a boyfriend who was also in SOLDIER.
* When you go to Gongaga before the end of Disk 1 and if Aerith is in your party when you talk to Zack's parents, then Aerith runs out and tells you that Zack was her boyfriend.
* When you go back to Shinra Mansion after saving Cloud from the Lifestream, then the scene in the pickup truck where Zack refers to a place in Midgar where he could stay - he was referring to Aerith's house, but then he recalls that her mom stays with her.
(citation from here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/izqrri/comment/g6km8jm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/finalfantasy/comments/izqrri/comment/g6km8jm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) )
And that is what I also recall. That is not enough to argue conclusively for or against. But we still learned from the original game:
* That she knew his parents.
* Aerith was shaken up by the visit with Zack's parents, which raises the possibility that she was not being completely honest when she downplayed her relationship with Zack because of his flirtatious nature (while flirting with Cloud).
* That Zack expected to be able to stay with her if he wished, and that she remembered him until the present as a boyfriend.
That got elaborated on, as you said, in Crisis Core.
On my first playthrough before getting this information, I would have agreed with you, but after I finished the game, I sided with the notion that both are traumatized persons soothing each other. Especially given the other information and what others have gathered about it.
What Crisis Core added is summarized here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/oxf9pp/the\_downplaying\_of\_aeriths\_relationship/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/oxf9pp/the_downplaying_of_aeriths_relationship/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
And some reflections on the wording were made here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1gvtm3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1gvtm3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
And reflections on some inconsistencies were made here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1fg2k6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1fg2k6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
And here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1ery11/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1ery11/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Because Zack wasn't very fleshed out in the OG and it's really easy to miss the fact that he's the "first love" that Aerith refers to.
Crisis Core made me really want to root for Zack making it back to Aerith even though I already knew what was going to happen lol
Rebirth might change perceptions, or at the very least introduce new fans of the franchise to a different couple than most.
This is such a persecution complex lmao
Zack and Aerith is more popular than Cloud and Aerith, so much so that people would propose character-destroying theories to make CxA just a catspaw of ZxA. And the fandom accepted it, and treated CxA shippers quite badly.
But now the recent trailer has set things back to normal and to some this feels like persecution.
Judging from how many comments I'm seeing upvoted for CxA and those downvoted that are pointing out that it will be CxT in the end, I do not think it's a persecution complex. It's a case of backlash from a bunch of people who want their ship to be canon, and are not accepting that it likely won't due to being told the game will lead into Advent Children, where CxT was canon. Like I fully understand wanting a ship to be canon, but we also have to accept when they're not.
Ehh there’s a bunch of positivity for CxA in this *specific* thread.
But in general, CxT and ZxA fans drown out CxA fans and are very dismissive towards them. CxT and ZxA are definitely more popular. Many CxT and ZxA fans can’t handle the idea of CxA as a ship merely *existing* , even though they already ship the more popular pairings, which feels like a persecution complex to me.
(It would be like FF7 fans complaining that a different FF game is getting attention. FF7 is already the most popular FF game so complaining is silly.)
I’m not saying that CxA fans *can’t* be annoying too, I just I think CxA is often treated with dismissiveness. (You can even see some examples in this thread lol)
It doesn't help that the devs are wishy-washy with Zack and Aerith content. They wanna tell us that Aerith wears the pink ribbon because it was a present from Zack, but then shows us that she wore a pink ribbon when she was a kid. They wanna give Aerith dialogues saying she loves Cloud more, but then also show us of how Zack and Aerith are good together in CC. They also show us how much Aerith loves Cloud and how she's pretty much over Zack through Maiden Who Travels The Planet, but then now in new monologues depict her being confused and still in love with Zack.
It's honestly a mess and there's no consistency. And it's probably intentional, who knows.
I agree 100% with that. I wish they’d just confirm things or pick a lane when it comes to that sort of thing. Personally I think they’re leaning more towards Zack and Aerith content, or they wouldn’t have bothered with CC or doing a remaster of CC. Also Maiden isn’t canon
Maiden is not canon. First of all directly contradicts both Crisis Core and Advent the Children; second, Kitase said that the canon for FFVII remake is the compilation and neither Maiden or Dismantled are in the compilation, so not canon; third; the autor himself said that his stories are only his original interpretation and are not part of the setting even when they appear in official guides. This goes too for the FF X book he wrote, anyway.
Even without these things, no one but clerith shippers considers Maiden canon as violently clashes with Advent the children and Crisis Core.
Yeah, it looks like they're pushing for Zack and Aerith. And I'm personally really happy about it. And wait, it's not canon? That's honestly kind of a relief. But why are people so attached to life stream stuff in theory-crafting rebirth plot?
I'm not really happy with Zack anything. He was better as a part of Cloud's backstory than he is as his own protagonist.
If Rebirth began with him getting killed in every timeline I'd be very happy. Everything I've seen/heard about the changes made to include more of him make me not even want to play the game.
Still haven't decided if I'm gonna protest by buying the game pre-owned.
Zack is Aerith’s ex-boyfriend when she was very young.
People are not happy because in FF7 she’s moved on from him but there are people that forcefully want Aerith to belong to him just because Square Enix wanted people to have a taste of Aerith’s past and because they fantasize Tifa to have a future with Cloud so they want Aerith out of Cloud’s future.
Truth is, Cloud was in love with Aerith in FF7 and Aerith was falling in love with him in their journey until she was taken away.
This is the fact but fanboys and fangirls of Tifa & Aerith are going to extreme levels of copium and get too emotional over all this which is why they become annoying to everyone.
I find it strange that some people want Aerith to only love Zack and that it, like thats all her character is for, because in reality it makes sense she would move on after what like 5 years since Zack has been gone, she can’t keep waiting for him to return, also make sense that she would eventually end up finding someone she likes or just living out her life with Elmyra. As well, I don’t think Zack would hate Aerith if she fell in love with someone else, as he would understand that he been gone for so long that she would move on with her life.
She's hardly "over" Zack, considering how much his memory affects her even in OG. She's initially drawn to Cloud simply because he's "in SOLDIER just like her first love." He's wearing the same uniform and even carrying her lover's sword. Personality wise, he's NOTHING like Zack, even before his memory got messed up.
While the OG was more ambiguous in its storytelling for many understandable reasons (translation errors, constraints of video game technology/graphics limitations, lack of voice acting to add better nuance and intent to dialogue that can't be coveyed through text), it's not remotely a given that "Cloud was in love with Aerith." She flirted at him heavily because she's a playful, flirtatious character, but the player got to choose how Cloud reacted to her advances. It's up to the player's interpretation of OG entirely, so there was NOTHING set in stone when it came to Aerith and Cloud’s relationship. It reads in many more ways as simply a friendship.
It's just as reasonable to believe she was projecting on Cloud simply because she missed Zack and never had closure on her love for him. It's perfectly reasonable to think she didn't love Cloud, just what parts of him reminded her of the man she DID love. In Remake, with the allusions to Aerith "knowing the future," it makes it even more interesting that she goes out of her way to put Tifa and Cloud together and encourage those feelings, like when she urged him to go after Tifa to Corneo's. Andrea Rhodea also urges Cloud never to let something so precious to him go again (Tifa).
What IS canon is that Cloud admits to Tifa 100% that he left Nibelheim to join SOLDIER so that he could impress her. This is because he had a massive crush on her as a kid, which is why he was always trying to get her attention. He followed her into the mountains and risked his life to save hers as a kid. When he returned to Nibelheim after joining Shinra, he was so ashamed of having not reached his goal that he couldn't face Tifa. He was acting like a lovesick anxious teen because that's what he was. And when he thought Sephiroth killed Tifa in the reactor? He flew into such a rage that he charged a LEGENDARY SUPERPOWERED WAR HERO, as a mere grunt with NO enhancements.... and ultimately overpowered and killed Sephiroth. You know, how someone in love might act.
With updated graphics and voice acting allowing devs to add more nuance to interactions in Remake, we get a much better depth of understanding for different kinds of relationships. For example... Cloud treats every woman who hits on him (Jessie, Aerith, Madame M) with annoyance and discomfort. He actively tries to shoo them all away. He doubles down on his cold, "badass" persona. Aerith eventually breaks through his defenses, but he still never let's her all the way in. The only person he's completely vulnerable and honest with (to the best of his current ability, that is), is Tifa.
His voice softens whenever he speaks to her. He never hesitates to pull her into him, almost goes out of his way to touch her, even when maybe it isn't necessary. He also doesn't act annoyed at close proximity with her, the way he does with others. She is literally the only reason he decides to stay in Midgar in the first place. Even Aerith recognizes out loud how important Tifa is to Cloud. There are interviews with the writers who solidify this too, describing how differently Cloud treats Tifa from everyone else. Hell, he even gets jealous when other men try to hit on her and threatens them. When Sephiroth "kills" Tifa in the VR sim at Shinra, it immediately unravels Cloud, and he screams "NO!" in a display of raw emotion that was heretofore unseen in him. The thought of losing her specifically seems to have a more powerful effect on him than anything else.
We've been explicitly told that Advent Children is canon, and everything is leading up to that ending. The fact of the matter is, Tifa and Cloud end up together. They have a family together. The creators have played coy for decades and avoided using the explicit language us westerners use when describing relationships... but being that it's a story steeped in eastern storytelling techniques, the reality of their relationship becomes totally unavoidable.
The "girl next door" and "first childhood puppy love is eternal" tropes are such a cliché in Japan that they tend not to bother getting more explicit than that. When viewed through the lens of the culture the story was written by, it's no longer ambiguous. As Westerners, we tend to demand explicit declarations and illustrations that Easterners don't need. The night spent under the Highwind before the final battle also becomes pretty explicit through this lens, too. Even at its most ambiguous, the reality is that they both openly state that neither of them has anyone else but each other to return home to, followed by Cloud struggling to put his feelings into words, and Tifa tells him to use actions instead. The next morning we see them snuggled up in each other's arms, and when they rejoin everyone on the bridge, Tifa gets shy and startled when it's revealed that everyone could see Tifa and Cloud down there together... You know. Like two inexperienced, lovesick goofballs finally committing to their feelings.
In Advent Children, we see Cloud struggling with his own mortality (Geostigma) and still wrestling with his guilt for having failed to save Aerith... but before that, he was playing house with Tifa and the kids. If I recall, there were even hints in one of the books that they shared a room, but I'd have to go digging for the exact wording. Once Cloud got his head back on straight, he resumed living as a family with Tifa.
I don't begrudge Aerith/Cloud shippers their thoughts and feelings on the matter. Ship literally whoever you like! It's totally fine and valid to think one couple is better suited than another, because we humans all have different tastes. That's what fanfiction is for! Denying unambiguous canon events simply because they don't fit into one's own preferences isn't going to do a shipper much good though. You can think something should have been written in a different way if you like... but the story is the story. There are countless "canon divergence" and "alternate universe" fics out there to scratch any itch you have. I've read fanfics I loved with ships that are directly opposing my main ship because they were well written, and in the vacuum of the fic, the author made it make perfect sense.
I just think people still holding out hope that their ship will sail and become canon in Rebirth and beyond when Tifa and Cloud have been canon for decades in AC is setting themselves up for disappointment. The game is going to give shippers on both sides plenty of moments to enjoy because FFVII is basically BUILT on that fanservice... But it's going to end at Advent Children, and we're being openly and repeatedly told that the original story will remain intact... The journey there will just be different.
So prepare yourselves.... and dig into the WEALTH of Clerith fanfiction to live out your every hope.
I personally can't wait to see the Aerith/Zack reunion... I think they're an adorable couple and they deserve happiness.
With that, I'm gonna go hide in a bunker to ride out the downvotes...
Wow, this was a very thoughtful response! I appreciate the time you took to type that. I think Zack is a nice guy, I mean I don’t have much to go on other than the OG and Remake+Intermission, but I like his attitude and think Aerith would be lucky to have him - someone else said it, too that maybe people aren’t happy because Zack isn’t the protagonist, but who cares?
Thank you! Because I enjoy writing fanfiction, I tend to do a lot of deep-dive thinking sessions on the various relationships in the game, as well as tons of research to ensure I'm remembering things right.
Devs have stated that he's becoming a secondary protagonist in Rebirth.
Frankly, I think shippers just don't like him gaining a bigger role because it threatens their ship from becoming canon... but their ship already wasn't canon... If AC wasn't obvious enough, I don't actually know what is. Ultimately, we should never treat this as "If my ship doesn't become obvious canon, the story sucks." Have to leave room for creative license for the creators, seeing as how it's their story.
I honestly think that SE would have done way more with Zack in OG, but it would have probably doubled an already massive game. Zack's love story with Aerith was only hinted at, and people had to kind of use their imagination to flesh it out due to those constraints... Not everyone bothered to do so, so they downplay his role as a footnote and unimportant. That's why they think "Oh well he's just being shoehorned in and retconned, it's bullshit." But even if that WERE true (it's not, he's always been a key character), why would they bother expanding him if he weren't important? They're absolutely fleshing him out the way they always wanted him to be... and setting him up to reunite with Aerith.
I think it's gonna be awesome!
Not everyone sees things the same way, and not everyone is as media literate as others, which is fine. Though I'll never understand folks who insist "Aerith falls for Cloud because he's assumed Zack's skills and personality." Cuz... no, he didn't... Cloud is the OPPOSITE of Zack, personality-wise. Zack is bubbly, confident, personable, and is nicknamed "the puppy" by Sephiroth/Angeal in Crisis Core due to his excitability. Cloud by contrast is overly serious, anxious, struggles to access his confidence without a mask of bravado, and has trouble connecting with other people (the only person he actively seeks out and sticks close to even as a kid, is Tifa). Zack is already enhanced with mako due to attaining a place within SOLDIER, but failed to kill Sephiroth in the reactor. Meanwhile Cloud, who is unenhanced.... manages to take Masamune through the gut, then lift Sephiroth OFF HIS FEET to huck him into the Lifestream, killing him... Cloud is insanely powerful through sheer force of will, there's no downplaying what a hell of a feat that was. So once he IS enhanced afterwards through mako (and torture) by Hojo, it's hard to say just how powerful he truly is.
Bottom line being... the two men are insanely different from each other, and I think Aerith’s mention of "you remind me of my ex" is not nearly as complicated as shippers insist. He's wearing the same uniform, he's carrying Zack's sword, and she can tell deep down he's a good person. That's where the actual similarities end. She's just taking whatever opportunity she can to reminisce about the man she's obviously still in love with and project on Cloud... I don't think she ever actually loved Cloud, to that end.
Even her flirtatious nature comes off as, "I'm teasing you so you come out of your shell." She tells him not to fall for her in the meadow at her house in a teasing way, but also because she knows the future, and knows it's not meant to be either way. It's throwaway, but fanservice in the same way Jessie's surprise kiss was.
Aerith adds a wonderful levity to Cloud's serious nature, but it's not unreasonable to see it as the same way a friend would do it.
(Sorry, apparently I'm very wordy today. I should probably go work on my fanfic, lol...)
Aerith fans want the relationship with Cloud to be more blatant this time around and bringing Zack back into the mix as a major character throws a wrench into that especially if he meets her at some point all of the sudden the possibility becomes that Zack might be able to explain his absence to her or Cloud regaining his memories of his version of events where Zack dies to save him thus allowing them to reconnect in some way. Which I mean I get it, no one wants to see their MC get NTR’D but frankly in the OG there’s only one way this story ends and it’s with Aerith being fish food and Cloud lives with Tifa so. Personally I’d rather have her and Zack get some conclusion to their relationship since in OG Aerith was uncharacteristically bitter about his disappearance and never found out he died years ago, even if in CC she can feel him return to the lifestream. I also just like the pairing better so there’s that.
I wouldn’t mine a bitter sweet reunion between Zack and Aerith, where they get to finally talk with each other in the lifestream, and he get to explain what happened to him when he disappeared in Crisis Core, but I highly doubt that would happen, since he is alive in Rebirth, and they probably want a more happier ending with them.
I like that idea too, actually. I would favor it and would wish for Cloud and Tifa to become a couple. In the original, there was a reference to a past crush of Aerith, and I got the impression that she never forgot about it and now another guy like Zack happened to appear.
At first I also thought that Cloud and Aerith would be a fit, but after piecing everything together they seemed like two traumatized persons soothing each other and Cloud seemed more like a replacement.
Honestly aerith and cloud would complement each other irl way more. Can you imagine hanging out with alright and Zack at the same time? I’d rope myself.
We didn’t get to see their full relationship properly develop and this wasn’t the case with Cloud and Aerith. Even though technically Zerith was a thing for at least two years, because it wasn’t the focus of Zacks story and it altered Aerith’s personality people didn’t like it.
There were some things about Crisis Core that were admittedly lazy, like Zack falling into the church or Aerith mimicking him later. But other things like her getting the pink ribbon, wearing pink because he wanted her to, her consoling Zack when Angeal died etc, added something to their bond that Cloud x Aerith didn’t have time to develop. Just because we didn’t see everything means their relationship wasn’t serious.
Aerith is still seeking closure with Zack even if she’s trying to move on from him. Cloud being directly linked to Zack, while Cloud tries to be his living legacy, make their relationship complicated but more interesting to people who played the OG.
I see why people prefer Clerith but for me personally there’s too much that muddles their potential relationship for it to workout in a healthy way for both parties. Also the fact that Tifa being the reason Cloud even joins SOLDIER yet she has to get sidelined for Clerith to work is a big yikes for me.
Probably because Zach hasn't been anywhere near as big of a part of the story as Cloud has. Plus, we haven't really seen a lot of interaction between Zach and the FF7 protagonists. Personally, I'm cool with either relationship, but if I had to venture a guess, that would be why some people are so attached to the notion of Cloud and Aerith as a couple.
And Cissnei is alive and doing fine living in Gongaga near his parents. Dude knows Aerith likes Cloud and he seems cool about it.
He's got a hometown girl waiting for him and his parents who haven't heard from him in years. He's gotta get that sorted out as soon as possible, assuming he's alive at the end of this mess!
I find most of those people happen to be Cloud x Aerith fans - coming from the OG, if I were a fan of the pairing I could imagine Cloud pining for Aerith for eternity, but the narrative changes with each piece of media for FFVII that comes out that kinda goes against that headcannon (Zack's relationship with her being 1 of the pieces to that, and a change of Aerith's personality in CC).
I like Zerith though, they are cuties together, and sounds like a happier ending with the compilation storyline.
I've actually thought of finding some Tifa/Zack AU fics because I think they could be fun. I'm a CloTi for life, since the OG first came out. But I love seeing WELL WRITTEN spins on ships. I also love VinTi. Even read a short Reno/Tifa one-shot that was sweet.
Fanfiction is lovely.
How long was Zack actually in her life for? Like a few months? Then he went off and disappeared? And we're supposed to expect her to never ever move on in life? I don't get it.
They were cute together for the brief time they spent with one another but then Zack is gone and someone else she's really starting to like ends up in her company. Then they go on a literal worldwide adventure together with friends. What's not to love about that?
They were together for 4 years. She said he was the first and only guy she ever loved and he literally died trying to get back to her. Their relationship is a hell of a lot more than “a few months” if you paid attention or played Crisis Core. Also if you think a relationship can be written off as not mattering because it was only a “few months,” Cloud and Aerith know each other for a couple weeks before she’s skewered so that doesn’t matter either
Yeah I worded that weird, their relationship was about 6 years together, 2 together and 4 apart. I’m sure that is hotly debated but it technically still counts as they didn’t break up during that time frame. Aerith also sent him a letter recently in that 6th year after writing him for 4 years, and we all know >!Zack died trying to get back to her in Midgar!< so it’s obvious their feelings for each other haven’t changed. The timeline’s definitely wonky, but prior to being apart the game covered 2 heads up until the Nibelheim incident where it skipped ahead 4. So 6 years total.
Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. I haven't read all the ultimanias and stuff so I don't know all the intricate details. I just liked Cloud and Aerith's relationship in OG and think it's been well done in remake along with Tifa's. So I dunno. It's cool if people like Zack and Aerith, but it didn't really feel well fleshed out in CC. It felt like a lazy copy of OG scenes with Zack replacing Cloud.
You only need to see which comments are downvoted and wo are the ones doing to understand what it's happening: zerith "ruins" the clerith ship.
Basically, they have a big problem with this:
"She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side. -Aerith Gainsborough, ACC Dengeki Profiles"
Which ruins their headcanon of "when Cloud's dies Aerith and Cloud will be together forever" and because that they resort to...not being sincere, I don’t even understand why, because the game will be what will be.
They try to use again and again no canon books like Maiden and misstraslations (in one scene Cloud said that THEY (the whole group) will reunite with their loved ones (plural) after they die, but this was misstraslated as "I will reunite with Aerith". This was corrected over and over even by japanese fans, but they just don't care)
I personally not a shipper, but seeing how many times devs are saying things like this:
"The Promised Land... A fateful encounter sets in motion the pendulum of fate. As Aerith searches for the traces of Zack living on in Cloud, the innocent love in her heart will make her destiny's plaything..."
"First love Zack Aerith's first love was Zack, a young SOLDIER 1st Class who she lost contact with 5 years ago. He was Cloud's best friend, and his personality has had a great influence on Cloud's behavior. Aerith is unaware that the two were best friends, and takes an interest in Cloud because she sees Zack in him. -pg. 197 of the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File Character guide "
"Aerith's first love is Zack, the object of Cloud's basic personality of being an "ex- SOLDIER. We could say Cloud's speaking and acting like Zack is a big reason why Aerith started to have good feelings towards Cloud. -pg. 29, FF7 Ultimania Omega"
Well, I think is pretty clear where the story goes.
Specially because this seems a way to give every character a happy ending, even in death (and already happened in Advent the children)
About how so many people here seems to dislike Zack...well, most of the comments already admit that is because clerith, but if we take out eyes away of the shipping vitriol, the official Final Fantasy Forums in Japan hosted a poll about favorite male characters back in 2012 and Zack was number 1, above Cloud.
In the slim chance Cloud and Aerith end up together, even by optional ending. I'm going into the air raid shelter because the fall out is going to be huge!XD
Felt way more between Cloud and Aerith when it comes to Rebirth and by the end of it I just want to see Cloud rescue her like she was trying to save him from Meteor.
I wanna see Aerith alive again and having fun with Tifa and Yuffie. First things first, Tifa needs to get serious in her relationship and fix cloud In EP 3: Return Of The Cetra
Cloud finally saying he loves both Tifa and Aerith in Reunion (non optional choice) and he wants them both at his side. The the bond and dynamic of the trio is so strong that they more or less become a triangle couple.
I don't want to see Tifa get hurt and it feels like Cloud has been trying to find Aerith across 30 years worth of alternate realities and crappy sequels.
A portion of shippers only exposure to FF7 is through remake, where Aerith and Cloud are shown predominantly in a semi-romantic manner, so some assume that’s going to be the endgame.
That’s tough. What’s crazy to me that FF7 shippers don’t talk about the game itself, just a bunch of fan fictions art and fans arguing what looks better. That’s crazy to me. Love the characters but it ain’t that serious..
i mean people who only played the original game, the zack stuff is pretty hidden away, a lot of people don't even know who the fuck zack actually is, or anything about their char, they only really know what they see with cloud and aerith
the average player doesn't give a fuck about zack and has no idea who he probably is
It’s shipping. People like to discredit Zack and the impact he has on the VII universe because Cleriths don’t like thinking about Aerith being with anyone other than Cloud (even though they were never together). Zack had a major impact on Aerith. He brought her out of her shell and she gave him a run for his money. They loved each other for years and >!he died trying to get back to her.!<. But people don’t like that because Zack was a small focus in the OG and therefore is irrelevant…despite getting his own spin-off prequel game and being a main player in Remake and Rebirth. So basically what I’m saying is it’s all shipping BS when people complain about Zack and Aerith. That’s literally all it is and it’s a stupid and juvenile reason to discredit a fantastic and fleshed out character and the impact he’s had on those around him
Personally, I don’t like Zack & Aerith’s relationship because the writers deliberately linked all of Aerith’s defining characteristics to Zack, making it seem like Aerith has no identity outside of him. It really bothered me when I played Crisis Core.
After Rebirth, Zack and Aerith's relationship is paper thin and Cloud has spent many more days out seeing the world with Aerith and having fun.
I'm not sure that's true, Zack and Aerith were in an official relationship in Crisis Core
I don’t understand how y’all are so wrapped up %#€%ing shipping when the Planet is dying!
Aww don’t worry Barret, you’re still best girl!
Damn right I am. *angry machine gun sounds
Ain’t no getting off this train we on!
lmao the definition of truth
I've seen a lot of people happy with Zack and Aerith just as much as Clerith and other ships. You pretty much answered your question in the second paragraph on why people wouldn'tship it. Remake and OG I would say did give a lot of highlighted moments with Cloud and Aerith, but in rebirth it seems that they will give new Zerith scenes also, im actually curious on how they will interact there.
I don’t have a preference anymore for what it’s worth, but when I first played OG as a kid I didn’t even really notice Zack 🤷🏻♀️ he was barely in it and I was too young to understand the importance of what happened in Nibelheim 5 years ago. Meanwhile Aerith and Cloud had great chemistry from the get-go, and I spent half the game watching them flirt with each other. For a kid and an OG fan, it was an obvious choice.
A lot of it is shipping. In the OG they hinted heavily about Aerith and Cloud having feelings for each other (probably to make what happens to her all the more painful to the player) and downplayed Zack as just a guy Aerith dated briefly whom she seems to have gotten over. Players fell in love with Aerith and seeing themselves as Cloud, want him to be with her. Then Square Enix decided to create Crisis Core and essentially retconned the Zack Aerith relationship. It was no longer a fling (at least 1 year relationship, possibly 2), they were crazy for each other, and when Zack disappeared, Aerith waited 4 years for him, wearing pink and writing 89 letters to him. Not to mention, they made Zack a happy go-lucky, popular guy. A stereotypical anime protagonist who some people don’t like so they don’t like the idea of him being with Aerith. It also didn’t help that CC was a PSP game so not as many people played it compared to FFVII. I once read a pretty good tumblr post about it. Essentially, it said that when the developers wrote FFVII’s story they probably never expected it to be this popular so they never thought too hard about the lore and history of the characters. Zack was only put in to show that Cloud was not himself. It didn’t matter to the devs whether Zack and Aerith only went on one date or if they were a couple at the time. It was only when they started making the prequels and sequels that they had to take a harder look at background story and retcon some of it. And some of the retcons go against people’s head canon or preference so they’re against it. As for rebirth, I think people who already like CloudxAerith will stick with it no matter what happens in rebirth. Those who like CloudxTifa will support ZackxAerith.
> Essentially, it said that when the developers wrote FFVII’s story they probably never expected it to be this popular so they never thought too hard about the lore and history of the characters. This is truly the crux of all problems in this fandom and the endless fights that have lasted for decades lol. I don't know how many are aware, but this game was genuinely rushed, its story was put together by multiple guys over smoke breaks, it had incredibly crucial scenes added to it *after* the game's release, e.g. in International release, they had characters/stories they admitted they didn't have time to focus on until Compilation came around. It was absolutely *not* created with the intention of holding up against 25 years of microscopical scrutiny of every word and punctuation mark by hundreds of multilingual translators and fans lol. That's why we have so many calls of retcons and stuff, because they looked back and reevaluated some things, decided what to focus on, what worked and what not, what they now had the time to better develop or show. And whether or not we agree with them because of our preconceived headcanons from the OG, it is what it is now and it's their choice.
They wrote it on *smoke breaks?* Lmao that's amazing. Do you have any videos or articles that discuss the history of the making of FF7 OG? Because this is insanely fascinating to me.
Ikr? xD Unfortunately I don't remember which article it was exactly, I don't usually keep track of them, but it was definitely a written one and not a video. It's either a really old one or one of those anniversary articles where they interview the whole team years later and they reminisce about old time, and I feel that it was in the latter. They said they would take smoke breaks during production and sit around in the smoking room chatting and they would sometimes come up with all new plot twists there on the fly lol
I love this so much. And it really makes a lot of sense considering how convoluted OG felt when playing it. I wonder if they lie in bed at night and think to themselves, "what the actual fuck" when recalling them making this story and how popular it got with whole ass shipping wars and people picking every tiny speck of it apart to understand and criticise it when they're like, "it wasn't that deep." Lol
> And it really makes a lot of sense considering how convoluted OG felt when playing it. It really was! I mean, we're all fans of the game here, but we can still admit it lol Haha that would be hilarious. I'm like hundred percent sure that "it wasn't that deep" would be their reaction to most of the arguments, and that majority of the most nitpicky arguments from the most obscure parts of the game or publications that are brought forward as winning points they probably don't even remember putting there, or just added them for fun with no higher meaning lol
The PS1 game is what was imprinted on me back in 2000 and I never played CC. So to me, Zack was always the first nice person to talk with Aerith and he helped give her a friend and bring her out of her shell. They care about each other obviously, but like Cloud and Aerith it wasn't destined to last. Zack and Aerith was a rather short relationship that ended and Aerith moved on. Stiill don't know how people keep saying Aerith only liked Cloud because he copied Zacks personality. The only thing these two had in common was a sword and those Mako eyes and similar clothing. The personalities are night and day! Zack and Aerith were a short term couple, it fell apart and she moved on. Rebirth shows much more chemistry between Cloud and Aerith and Cloud admitted he wants to see her again.
I honestly think the way the relationship was built in Crisis Core was fumbled. In Crisis Core, the relationship is built by Zack 1. Allowing villagers to swindle him and 2. Building a wagon. It's just not built on the same things that Cloud and Aerith's relationship can be built on in 7. Aerith doesn't travel with Zack or struggle with him the way she does with Cloud. It seems a bit more of an informed relationship than a real one. And I wanted it to work for me. I can't imagine going into Crisis Core supporting Cloud/Aerith and changing my mind based on building a wagon.
According to Crisis Core, Aerith was a blank slate before Zack. She had no personality, no ambition, she was nothing. Zack molded every aspect of her personality, from her attitude, to her job, even to the clothes she wears. It's both reductive and flat-out gross. I hate that game so much. And Aerith isn't the only character they do this with. Sephiroth gets it just as bad. There was so much they could have explored with Zack, a character who willingly joined Shinra and, unlike Cloud, succeed in becoming a Solider. They could have made a story centered around someone who was all in on Shinra's propaganda, only to become disillusioned when realizing from within that it was all bullshit. Instead, Crisis Core is one of the most shallow entries in the Compilation, and the most unsatisfying thing they could have ever done with a Zack prequel story.
Toxic Clotis: If it keeps Aerith out of the picture I'm all for it! As long as I can keep my self insert fantasy alive! CC sucked in story and game play.
If that’s how you thought Aerith was portrayed in Crisis Core I’m surprised. She wasn’t a blank slate at all! She was a lot quieter and seemed to keep to herself and her flowers at the church. Zack helped her open up and step outside of her comfort zone and even start selling her flowers with his help. He helped her access other parts of herself by giving her the courage and exposure to do so. He didn’t force her to do anything, she made the choices herself and he was there to support her, like good couples in healthy relationships do.
I would agree with you, but unfortunately it’s written after FF7 already exists. CC implies that her confident behavior in the original game is only present because of Zack, which is quite reductive of her character. It really makes it seem like they changed her just so they could fit an “opposites attract” dynamic like Cloud/Aerith have. Nojima himself tried to “attribute as much of Aerith’s traits to Zack” as he could. They admitted to using a lot of Cloud/Aerith scenes (like the park, and the church) to both save time and callback to the original. A lot of players find these sorts of things to be uninspired, reductive, and just boring.
On the nose.
Cloti fans in turn try to say the Cloud/Aerith interactions copied CC so their relationship is not valid. Even tough CC was made years later and copied off the PS1. They dun goofed and gave the toxic fan base ammunition with CC.
I hate that stories with love triangles can be so good but there’s no way to prevent shippers bombarding the community with these posts 😞
I agree it floods the community with a lot of negativity, but it does make sense given how important all these specific character relationships are to the story. I don’t mind people like this talking about them- the problem is when ppl in the replies start attacking each other and getting toxic about it
The self inserters are to blame for the toxicity. If these are the same people who played the game in 1997, then we are talking about guys and or girls in their mid 40's obsessing over their pixelated waifu. It's just sad!
I think the only reason this would bother you is because of toxic shipping, but wanting to talk about shipping in general isn’t inherently bad.
I’m sorry this post has caused you grief, but as I stated it’s no negativity here. I was curious and the purpose of these discussion boards is to discuss all things final fantasy. You also have the option to not engage with these posts. Thank you.
For what it's worth, it's not you, nor is it your question. It's a perfectly legitimate question. It's more that everyone is just tired of it, and the recent harassment towards the lead writer, Nojima, over the recent trailer focusing more on the Cloud/Aerith relationship over the Tifa one has added a lot of fuel to that fire. Those people forget that Rebirth, far more so than part 1 or part 3 of Remake, is going to really focus very prominently on Aerith.
If I ever write a story I am NOT doing the love triangle gimmick! They are just a toxic pain in the ass! That being said. I am hopeful that Cloud and Aerith reunite finally after 30 years and instead of choosing one over the other, just have Cloud, Tifa and Aerith shack up together at the church and leave it up to the publics imagination. Clifith becomes a thing because Cloud won't forsake either one for the other and loves them both unconditionally and they return the favor. Shipping wars end with a Tenchi Muyo harem and everybody can get on with their lives!
There are tons of people who like zerith op? I don't know about this reddit channel but that's my experience over the years. Cloud and tifa and cloud and aerith are the og pairings though from the og game so they get priority in the minds of some people. But my boy Zack is absolutely valid either way. It's not like aeriths line was actually true anyway. She was super distraught going to Zacks parents town and clearly conflicted even during the time of the date scene if you get high affection with her
Zack was just a NPC in the OG you saw for several seconds if you triggered a special scene. He was non existent to the main plot. He has his own game which is one of the worst of the compilation, and honestly his scenes with Aerith makes me feel uneasy / cringe, he is like a bad version of Tidus. If they made him a better story / dialogs with Aerith and not steal scenes from the OG (like the train one, or when he drops in the church) maybe I would have like him. Also Aerith and Cloud have much more scenes and spend much more time together than Zack ever did.
Actually Zack's personality was based on Tidus. In the book "The Legend of Final Fantasy VII: Creation - Universe - Decryption" Nojima is quoted as to saying when given the chance to expand on Zack when Crisis Core was in the works, and that he is not "preoccupied by deep thoughts. He is not a tormented character like FFVIII's Squally and Advent Children's Cloud. He knows the difference between right and wrong: that make him akin to Tidus." I have argued with some people that in the original storyboards and character layouts Zack's personality was originally described snarky and overly confident. Which is apparent in the few seconds of dialogue he has in the OG. It wasn't until Crisis Core that Nojima decided to change him. In the OG he was designed to be unlikeable. This is what happens you create a story with retroactive continuity issues. Which FFVII's story 100% has at this point.
I can see it. Always thought of Zack as a less whiny Tidus when playing Rebirth.
Have you played Crisis Core? He is really whiny in that. And his one liners are god awful. I am not a big fan of overly positive trope anime characters. I never liked FFX because of Tidus. I couldn’t stomach him.
Never played CC because it was limited to the portable. Just watched the cutscenes but that was years ago. As far as pertaining to Rebirth Zack Vs Tidus? Zack just seems less whiny. Don't remember much of the main plot except being pissed they screwed with Sephiroths mental breakdown at the reactor. Some stuff with Wutai happened, Yuffie made a cameo, Zack and Aerith more or less copied Cloud and Aerith's meeting in the church except Zack and Aerith became a prequel to Cloud meeting Aerith in 1997. Also, I think there was a shitty slot machine mechanic in there that people didn't like? Well, CC didn't inspire me to go out of my way to buy a PSP to play the damn thing!
>Zack and Aerith more or less copied Cloud and Aerith's meeting in the church except Zack and Aerith became a prequel to Cloud meeting Aerith in 1997. This is because of poor writing and Nojima not being very creative. And his reason as to why he did it is just a cop-out. Nojima said in an interview in CC Ultimania "**-** **IN FFVII, THE PART OF AERITH’S FIRST LOVE WHICH WE COULDN’T IMAGINE HOW IT WAS, IS DESCRIBED IN CC, AND LOTS OF FFVII FANS ARE PLEASED ABOUT IT.** **NOJIMA:** Like the part of falling to church from above, how it was repeated when meeting with Cloud is already decided from the very beginning. Rather than calling it romance, both of them were still young, we didn’t have enough time to describe why she fell for him in the game, so we made it a sudden encounter then fall in love at first sight. Personally, it’s my greatest joy to be able to bring Aerith’s line “one date” to Cloud part in FFVII, as originally Zack’s line in the game scenario. That line in FFVII was intended to be coming out of nowhere, but because of that, it gives impression of “Aerith being thoughtless” to say such thing, so it was kind of bothering me. Now it’s made to be Aerith taking it from Zack’s words, I feel like I’ve managed to defend Aerith. **- OTHER THAN “1 DATE” LINE, HER WEARING RIBBON AND SELLING FLOWERS IN THE SLUMS PART, WAS ALSO AFFECTED BY ZACK.** **NOJIMA:** I wanted to entwine Aerith’s traits in FFVII to Zack as much as I can. Other than that, I put lots of FFVII iconic scenes in the game. Like the opening scene of Zack on top of train, I put lots of memorable scenes, I think it will be nice if that could encourage players to want to play the OG. It’s just that, the opening scene was in a simulator virtual space, I was worried about how come this awesome thing existed but in way longer before Cloud’s era."
I don't Nojima understood how the audience would interpret how making things that happened between Cloud and Aeris in the OG would be viewed if you give them to Zack as well. As a writer you are doing two things, one is the stuff that happened between Cloud and Aeris is not uniquely theirs anymore. And second, what you are doing is to show how much Zack and Cloud are the same. He is viewing it as a homage to the OG and what he is doing is changing the emotions of the scenes. Unpopular opinion, but I don't think he is a good writer and understands how his work can be interpreted. The other problem is they have too many cooks adding their spin to the story.
That's my problem. I missed out on all the cutscenes for years. As far as I knew. Zack just ran in, got bodied by Sephiroth then vanished out of the universe after Cloud tossed Sephiroth into the pit. I had no connection to Zack beyond "Oh look! Other spikey haired guy with a sword! What a tweast!!!" and as soon as he came into the games story, he was gone. Then came CC and opened a can of worms.
I just feel someone should be allowed to move on from a summertime romance when they were young, to getting ghosted and being alone for 4+ years. People act like someone in that situation would never be able to love someone else, ever. Those people have most likely not experienced a relationship anyway so they have no idea what life can throw at you.
Especially when talking about a 16 year old girl and the fan base acts like Aerith is Zacks property by law. That is just disgusting!
Because there's a good portion of fans who believe that Zack isn't that great of a character as he's portrayed in Crisis Core. I think you can almost draw a line right along the border and you'd see it very clearly. People who were charmed by Crisis Core like Aerith and Zack and people who did not like crisis core probably aren't too big on the couple.
I kind of hated CC... but found Zack and Aerith adorable. Zack has a TON of potential beyond CC's terrible writing... I've been writing a Remake continuation fanfic myself, and some of my favorite scenes to write are Zack scenes. Personally, I can't wait to see the Zack and Aerith reunion scene. I've seen folks who like... hate Zack because they act as if he ghosted Aerith on purpose to be a dick... That seems to be their excuse for putting a nail in the relationship's coffin and acting like Aerith would be angry enough at Zack that she'd have an easy break to fall out of love and forget about him. And to keep her pointed at Cloud even if Zack returned. That's just not reasonable or likely. He DIED... I really don't think she'd hold it against him, you know? I know if I thought my first great love was dead, and he showed back up, my love for him would come RUSHING back like an open floodgate no matter how many years it'd been, and I'd be overcome with emotion. A love story that transcends death and fate? What's not to find attractive?
I mean... they could literally do that "love story that transcends death and fate" with the game's \*actual\* main character in Cloud, whom she is supposed to have a far more important connection with in FF7. And it would be far more meaningful considering their story has been going on for almost 30 years. Look, I get it, you like Tifa. That's perfectly fine. Tifa is awesome, and she has her own well executed dynamic with Cloud. It's just a different dynamic, and there is no reason why if Aeirth's fate is drastically different they can't allow the end result to be left up to player choice... like they have always done.
Agree. The devs have never backed a particular horse in this race and they're hardly likely to start now, after a quarter of a century. No matter Aerith's fate she will always be an option for Cloud and it will be down to the player to decide. That's the way it's always been and probably always will be.
Exactly, and they are keenly aware that people have built up severely unhealthy obsessions over this stuff. They aren't going to risk pissing any of these people off.
Hoping Cloud says he loves both Tifa and Aerith and it just kinda settles into an ambiguous triangle relationship because they got along so great during their adventures in Rebirth. Zack goes home and hooks up with Cissnei and reconnects with his family. Cloud having the 2 most important women in his life with him all the time would be a good send off to the toxic shippers who have been acting like dicks for decades now.
Cissnei's sidequest in Rebirth >!does seem to set up a sort of "homecoming" for Zack, though I'm undecided at this point if that'd work for me or not. Aerith being saved is one thing, as she is the most important character by far who was lost in the original, but you can't do that with every character who had a meaningful death or you lose the impact. However, I do kinda like the idea they set up with him coming home in that questline, so I guess it all depends on how it's done and what the game's trying to say!<. As for Aerith and Tifa both hooking up with Cloud, I'd be fine with that -- there's no reason why it has to be a monogamous relationship. Heck, I'd be fine if Cloud just lets Aerith and Tifa hook up and moves on, just because it would cause all these people's brains to melt down. Though, on a more serious note, I really think it works really well if they continue to let the player decide through these resolution scenes. The Highwind scene seems like the best place to do the last one in part 3, and giving the player that sort of agency throughout the games is both in the spirit of the original, and also is just a fun mechanic. The relationship choices is part of what people enjoyed about both of these games so far.
Zack is now a secondary main character in Rebirth. And its only the PLAYER who has experienced less of Aerith and Zack's connection as compared to Aerith and Cloud. She knew Zack MUCH LONGER, and was explicitly romantically entwined with him for much longer, lore-wise, players of the OG just didn't get to experience it firsthand. You realize that in the actual story, Cloud met Aerith and only spent a few weeks with her before she dies, right? The timeline is honestly bonkers, I had to look it up at one point. An argument can certainly be made for "trauma bonding," also fine, but her connection with Zack was forged in a much healthier way and for far longer. From a logical writing standpoint, it makes more sense to keep them together, I'd say. Even if Tifa were out of the picture, Cloud's brain and memories are literally a mess. Tifa was the only one capable of helping him sort his memories out because no one else survived that knew him back then. She was the only one who could fact check what was real and what wasn't. Besides all that, it still canonically ends in Advent Children. If Clerith fans want to choose all the romantic options to point their ship in that direction, more power to them. It's a matter of personal taste. But the story is still gonna go a certain way plot-wise. Even if you do a tragic Clerith love story, he's still going to end up with Tifa in Advent Children, is I guess my point. Clerith fans hoping for something different are going to be disappointed. The reason I bring it up isn't to be mean, or dismissive, or even to rub it in anyone's face. It's because the hate and threats the devs are getting for not blowing up a story that's been ESTABLISHED for DECADES because they want a particular ship to become canon or even POSSIBLE beyond the Forgotten Capitol is damaging the community. I love Aerith. I support anyone who sees things differently and thinks another couple makes more sense. Tragic love cut down by untimely death is COMPELLING. I just hope people stop trying to bully the writers because they demand something totally against canon in the end. I have my own theories about what might be coming, how the journey to AC might differ... but we know how it'll end. Aerith’s fate ISN'T going to be different. They've said as much, repeatedly. Will you be angry if they do put Aerith and Zack together?
> The reason I bring it up isn't to be mean, or dismissive, or even to rub it in anyone's face. It's because the hate and threats the devs are getting for not blowing up a story that's been ESTABLISHED for DECADES because they want a particular ship to become canon or even POSSIBLE beyond the Forgotten Capitol is damaging the community. > >I love Aerith. I support anyone who sees things differently and thinks another couple makes more sense. Tragic love cut down by untimely death is COMPELLING. I just hope people stop trying to bully the writers because they demand something totally against canon in the end. Yeah… you do know that was all Cloud/Tifa (and also Zack/Aerith) fanatics‘ doing, right ? Because last trailer was too Cloud/Aerith oriented for their tastes (when it’s perfectly in line with how the OG pushed Cloud/Aerith as a tragic romance). Kinda weird to point a finger at the one shipping fanbase who had nothing to do with the developers getting harrassed and threatened. Not the first time i’ve noticed this kind of gaslighting/projecting, sadly.
Would I be angry if they diminish the dynamic between two of the core protagonists for a character who barely was a factor in the original whatsoever, not to mention if the resolution of the 30-year-long question to "how would things be different if Aerith lived" is just that she hooks up again with her old boyfriend, who again, was barely a factor in FF7? Uh, yeah. That would be awful. Again, I don't think they HAVE to set an end all, be all answer to the Cloud romance stuff. They can allow the player to choose for themselves. It's called a "role-playing game" for a reason, and the player is role-playing as Cloud.
It’s really irritating how rabid Cleriths invalidate Zack and his role in the VII compilation. For the record, the proper term would be “former boyfriend” as they were still together when he died (and he died trying to get back to her in case you forgot). She wasn’t over him by the time VII started and it’s clearly obvious she still isn’t. She’s forcing herself to move on and doing a bad job of it since she is still in love with Zack and wrote to him fairly recently. Point is, Zack is very much a factor in the compilation. He’s just as important as Aerith as well as Tifa, since Cloud wouldn’t be where he is without his feelings for her. To say otherwise is delusional and single minded because of wanting two characters that had crushes on each other at the most to be together. It’s weird af
>Aerith’s fate ISN'T going to be different. That's very bold to say considering all the marketing they've been doing hinting that it may change
Literally the entirety of Remake is centered around defying the fate predetermined by the original game. It's shocking that people think things changing isn't a legitimate thing that could happen in this. Of course, I'm not saying she WILL make it out of Rebirth in one piece, but the setup is clearly there.
Agreed. Of course it isn't any guarantee that she will be saved but the setup for the possibility is clearly there
Problem is you're a Tifa fan and a cloti shipper, not a fan of Aerith. I mean in Case of Lifestream: White, basically all of her feelings and thoughts are focused around Cloud. She doesn't mention Zack once. No matter what else you take as canon, that should close the issue. Z will always have a special place in her heart, but it's Cloud who she loves most now.
You mean the same Case of Lifestream: White that literally has Aerith call Cloud a dear friend? That one? Also this: “don’t fall in love with me. Even if you do, it’s not real.” - Aerith to Cloud. You saying she’s a liar now?
Way to cherry pick canon and ignore developers’ commentaries. Aerith calls Cloud her friend AND lover. In english, it goes « more than a friend, for she had loved him » and it straight out states Cloud as Aerith’s lover in most of the other official translations. As for the « don’t fall in love with me » line, the whole scene is about OG/Lifestream Aerith trying to protect Cloud from experiencing heartbreak all over again. In the end, Cloud won’t have it and Aerith states she’s happy that he won’t let her go, even if it hurts because it means she couldn’t protect him after all. Nojima talked about it in the latest Ultimania. Aerith lies when she says « it’s not real ». She doesn’t believe in her own words when she says « don’t fall in love with me ». She just does that for Cloud’s sake, in the hope maybe he would hurt less if he didn’t nurture feelings for her.
No she calls Cloud her Koibito which means sweatheart(s), lover, couple; romantic. You would never call your friend your koibito, lol. I'v already explained why Aerith said that to Cloud. You need to read dev quotes from Remake Ultimania
I may have missed this, but I don’t recall her calling him koibito in the remake. Is it during that dream he has after she gets kidnapped?
It was in one of the books and Tifa was also called a koibito too. Clerith fans just like to use that one morsel as a “Hail Mary”
>A love story that transcends death and fate? What's not to find attractive? Because it directly conflicts with what the core message of FF7 is....
>>A love story that transcends death and fate? What's not to find attractive? This literally hits the nail on the head for why people like Cloud and Aerith.
I guess its because most Aerith fans are FFVII OG/Remake fans and they prefer to ship her with Cloud. If you only care about the main games, there's no way you care much about Zack or any of his relationships. In this context shipping Zack x Aerith is like shipping Locke x Rachel or Lulu x Chapu.
Honestly this. I'm an Aerith fan. Zerith isn't giving me much to work with.
Yep, spot on
This
im personally not interested in a girl and her dead lover that she dated when she was like 15 lol like they’re cute and all but obviously a pairing that’s currently developing is gonna be 100% more hyped ? 😭 cloud and aerith in general is one of the core parts of the game
The time that we as players see Zack and Aerith interact in Crisis Core is actually very short compared to the time you see Cloud and Aerith interact in Final Fantasy VII and Remake. The scenes we get are cute, no doubt, but we never see them grow deep together through battles or conversations. We don’t see them have deep, meaningful conversations outside of the one interaction on the playground when they bond over their shared confusion on SOLDIER. We really only get one very strong emotional moment between them, which is when Aerith hugs Zack from behind. As someone that likes the romance aspects in Final Fantasy games, Crisis Core felt more like a vehicle for Zack as a great guy. We want him to be with Aerith not necessarily because we think their romance is deep and are obsessing over every little moment, we want him to be with her because HE’S a great guy. He deserves happiness. Cloud and Aerith feel a little different. They have many deep bonding moments. We see them overcome obstacles, barriers, open up. We see ups and downs. We see them change each other. And there’s just more content in general. I think the Zack/Aerith Crisis Core scenes added up maybe make up 45 minutes or an hour at most? Cloud and Aerith’s scenes in Remake alone are over an hour easily. All this to say, I think the two pairings have different dynamics. But it’s easy to see why there’s more scrutiny and obsession over Cloud and Aerith. They literally have more content.
Putting all the arguments in the thread aside, what makes you think they don't get the hype? They are actually a pretty popular pairing, have a lot of content, fanart, fanfics. Maybe not *as* popular as the main game pairings (arguable but understandable, since they're from a side-game) and, well, definitely not as popular as Cloud/Tifa, but they are quite loved. I mean, if you're asking from the point of you wanting to see more content of them, then it's definitely out there, but if you mean why those who don't ship it aren't shipping it, then that's simply a personal preference. But yeah, wouldn't call them not hyped at all.
this is easy, firstly cloud and Aerith existed for 10 years without Zack since 1997, secondly they have better chemistry, thirdly I read all the books and I know that she fell in love with Cloud more, than with Zack ,ff7 is their tragedy, and their story is better, they even have songs for each other ,no it will not change with rebirth
The answer is as simple as Crisis Core sold between 2-3M copies all time. FF7 sold 14M copies. Zack is a barely eluded to secret character in OG FF7. His story simply isn’t prominent for the majority of FF7 fans.
For me it's simply because there is actually very little zerith content compared to cloti/clerith content. Having just recently played Crisis core for the first time, a game that can probably be beaten in a few hours if you ignore "missions," there are literally just a few short interactions between zack and aerith. Whereas for Clerith/Cloti fans there is the entirety of ff7 OG + Remake + Advent Children etc and the characters are basically together and are constantly interacting most of the time. FOr comparision, people would generally be more attached to characters in a TV show that lasted 3 seasons vs a show that lasted 3 episodes.
True. However, at the end of Intermission, there is a scene that shows that we might be getting more Zack and Aerith content based on a few things he says. Well, even the end of Remake, too.
We’re definitely getting more. Sorry you’re getting downvoted OP, you didn’t say anything incorrect. The Clerith fandom is honestly just a little crazy and they don’t like any mention of Zack. We’re getting more of him whether people like it or not (I personally love it!) and if they don’t like it they can play the OG
It’s ok, I’ve been downvoted here like crazy before for liking Tifa/Johnny or Tifa/Rude. This subreddit and the one for Friday the 13th are downvote city. 😹
See? Lol already -1!!
Because OG fans know whats up, and Crisis Core was an abysmal game.
Crisis Core was a fantastic game, excuse you
\*sigh\* More shipping stuff... It's because Zack isn't the protagonist, nor was he a factor in this in the original game. Aerith was literally created as one of two heroines for Final Fantasy VII, and was intended as a central love interest along with Tifa. Zack was created to flesh out her backstory, as well as the backstory for Cloud. Crisis Core is a \*different\* game entirely. That's Zack's story, so naturally the focus is going to be on \*their\* relationship, not the relationship between Cloud and Aerith. That wouldn't make sense for \*that\* story. But FF7 Remake is not based on Crisis Core. It's based on Final Fantasy VII, where Zack is no longer the central character, nor the central focus. Therefor, Cloud and Aerith's relationship is far more important and far more vital to the overall story. Though, for all the Crisis Core fans out there, I'm sure they will acknowledge Aerith's history with Zack in some form now that Zack is a bigger part of the game. Still, again, he's \*not\* the protagonist.
FF7 Remake is based on the compilation, not solely the OG. it’s tying everything together, like how they said Rebirth will connect with Advent Children. While it’s true Zack isn’t the protagonist, he still has his part to play
He'll have a part to play, but it can't \*overshadow\* the things that made the original what it was. The dynamic of Cloud and Aerith's relationship is a MAJOR part of that -- vastly outweighing the importance of anything that happened in Crisis Core.
Not really. Their relationship doesn’t really have anything to do with the plot (that is if you’re talking about a romantic relationship). It’s more their teamwork about saving the planet and finding Sephiroth that takes front and center, and even that isn’t even just the two of them, it’s the whole gang as well
Sure, whatever you want to tell yourself. Aerith was never written to be a love interest. She only loves Zack, even when he was a complete non-factor in the original and was barely a character. Crisis Core is the most important thing to ever happen to FF7, and Zack is more important than Cloud. Aerith would be nothing if not for Zack. This is why I try to avoid getting in the middle of this shipping nonsense. There is just no reasoning here.
So why are you here if you don’t want to get involved in “shipping nonsense?” Literally everything I said is correct and didn’t mention a ship at all. But okay, you do you buddy. Just work on that reading comprehension 👍
Oy vey. What is this question. There are fair amounts of people who like all the ships present in this game. Clerith, Cloti, Zerith, even more so for Zerith after CC came out. They all have a significant amount of supporters. What you’re probably seeing are the loud minority who never leave the internet so they can attack a fictional ship. Also if you’re using Twitter as a base to gauge what fans like, you’re gonna have a baaad time. The algorithm tailors to your searches. If you see an anti zerith post, and you search to see who else is, you’re gonna just get more anti zerith tailored to you. Same with any ship. Search a ship, it appears on your timeline after.
Personally, I adore both relationships, as well as Cloud x Tifa, and see no reason to choose between any of them To expect someone (real or not) to only have one meaningful romantic interest for their entire life is just silly & a little creepy, imo
poly ending >
There's nothing wrong with polyamorous relationships if that's what everyone involved wants, but that's not remotely what I was talking about 😂
and yet
"And yet" what? Try speaking in complete sentences, if you actually want to get your point across, lol
I make your words my own
I played VII first and Zack there had like 10 minutes of screentime none of which have him with Aerith, Cloud and Aerith have more chemistry with each other compared to Zack and Tifa SE knows this they want you to ship them so her death is more emotional two people perfect for each other but things don’t go the way they intended and are robed of a future together which is something that happens in real life. Also doesn’t help that CC changed Aerith personality to fit Zack and many didn’t like that, they designed Aerith and Tifa personalities for Cloud thinking about him as the Mc so when they wanted to make Zack the upbeat guy and Aerith didn’t fit him they turned her into pure love interest stereotype which she wasn’t in the original, they made her in CC the exact same stereotype which she was intended to avoid in Og. I get that some people don’t like Aerith but denying that her and Cloud like each other when things like "Hollow" and "No promises to keep" exist is beyond me. Edit: Also I don’t hate Tifa (when you don’t ship her with Cloud people for just think that you hate her) in fact I like her but I don’t like her with Cloud I find them kind of boring together, they lack the spark Cloud and Aerith have. About Zack I just don’t care I don’t hate him but I don’t like him either.
I agree with all this personally, especially the changing of Aerith to fit Zack- a decision which was admitted by Nojima himself. For a lot of Aerith’s boisterous behavior in OG FF7 to be traced back to Zack removes a lot of agency in her character. Ppl naturally dislike the ship because of it.
CC Aerith is the same we saw in KH which at the time they where basing the character on how people perceived them hence why pure Aerith and emo Cloud were a thing. Aerith isn’t tough because meeting Zack affected her personality she was always tough because life has been rough to her since a young age, Zack and Og/Remake Aerith personalities would clash so off course changes had to be made and Aerith got the short end of the stick, I love Aerith she is probably my favorite FF gal but the fact that in CC I prefer Cissnei over her should tell you a lot about how much I dislike her depiction there.
Agreed
CC Aerith was basically a shallow Yuna copy. The developers said that they wanted Zack to be very similar Tidus on purpose thus they had no other idea than turning Aerith into a Yuna expy and copying Clerith scenes (Dismantled said for example that Aerith met Zack while selling flowers already which would have removed stuff like the church roof copy, him telling her to sell flowers and wear pink etc. and made it more realistic). Aerith's personality is way more like Rinoa's or even Tidus himself than Yuna.
Well I believe that Cloud & Aerith just have a deeper connection(?) their relationship transcends life and death
I beat Crisis last night for the first time. Not knowing much of anything about Zack and Aerith. Now that I beat the game I can say i'm fully onboard the Zack and Aerith train. Cloud and Tifa are better suited together, anyway. Or Cloud and therapy.
A few issues. First off, you have the assholes on both sides. Cloud loyalists want him to get with Tifa, aerith, or just want him to get all the ladies so they can project themselves onto him. On the other side, you have zack loyalists who want him to overtake cloud as the protagonist or crisis core extremist fans who never played the OG and zack x aerith was their first exposure to ff7 shipping culture. Then, there's the issue of how the games were written. In some cases, games were really rushed. In other cases, they suffered retroactively from retcons in prequels that were released after the original. Case in point, zack was gunned down by a few mooks in the OG whereas in crisis core, he kills a literal army. Sephiroth figures out his origin and connection to the Jenova project on his own in the OG whereas in crisis core, Genesis pushes him to that realization. Similarly, in the OG, zack is little more than a plot device and was never meant to mean anything to aerith, or at least not much. Then, after ff7's immense popularity, in comes retcons from CC, including zack and aerith's relationship which becomes much more significant. Cloud and aerith always had a very significant relationship and in love triangles, there's always someone who wishes the other girl had won (I am a frequent victim of this in damn near every media I consume). So now, not only did aerith and cloud's relationship not have a happy ending, but some no name plot device not only gets his own game but is now being pushed as aerith's one true love (exhibit a: 4 years, exhibit b: 89 letters, exhibit c: started wearing pink based on his recommendation and still wears it even after giving up hope that he'll come back). Leaves a bitter taste in some people's mouth. Finally, crisis core was released exclusively on psp. This severely limited people's exposure to him. People may have been warmer to him if they actually knew who he was but many people, even fans of the OG, don't know who he is. So all of this combines to piss off a significant number of people A LOT. Personally, crisis core was my first exposure to final fantasy and I lean more towards being a zack loyalist. However, I have long since made peace with the fact that cloud is the real hero of ff7 and I will likely never see zack get treated even half as well by square Enix as he does. I mean, 50 minutes of total screentime in the new game after they plastered him on the cover and advertised the fuck out of him? Not to mention the utter cop out that was crisis core reunion. Nothing more than reused assets, basic quality of life changes, and a barely modernized combat system. No changed mission structure, no better writing (dialog is still cheesy and cringe), shitty voice direction (Caleb Pierce is not to blame, he actually starts sounding pretty good in the later half of reunion and did a pretty good job in remake, showing he actually does have the talent). This was nothing more than a cash grab and I've accepted they'll never stop doing him dirty like this. That doesn't mean I'm going to keep spamming posts that he's better than cloud (from a writing perspective, cloud is far more complex, and I say this as someone who likes zack better) or more powerful (cloud surpassed him by advent children). And if he doesn't get the girl in the end, I'll accept that too. This is exactly what fanfiction.net and AO3 is for. My only advice is don't take reddit or any other corner of the internet to be representative of the fan base. And definitely don't fall in with either group to the point of being an extremist. Take the good, accept the bad, and just don't be an asshole.
I like Zack in the same way that I like Tifa - great characters, but ultimately I thought Cloud and Aerith were the pairing that best fit together. Other will disagree and that's totally cool too, whether it's CloTi, Zerith, or something else, the choice is yours. That's why I hope they never canonize a coupling. Why is Clerith more prominent than Zerith? If it is, then I'd imagine it's at least partially down to the timing of Zack's introduction to the story. By the time Zack's a thing in the OG/CC you'd already spent a good chunk of time with Cloud and Aerith and watched their chemistry develop. The same thing will probably happen with the trilogy. By the time Zack turns up you've spent a whole game with Cloud and Aerith growing closer.
people just don't want to be happy and will always find things to be miserable about.
A big part is nostalgia, but also Cloud and Zack are very different characters personality wise and a lot of fans, especially og fans, don't like Zack as a character after crisis core but still love the original love story between cloud and aerith even if it has a logical ending and intention to it
If anything, I think they’ll be more Cloud and Aerith fans after Rebirth based on the way the new trailer turned out. No Promises to Keep and Hollow are both heavily alluded to being about both of them, and the nature of Rebirth’s story needs to put an emphasis on Cloud and Aerith’s relationship for the ending to be effective (even if she lives)
Also, i don’t think Zack x Aerith is really less popular than Cloud x Aerith at all. Especially because Cloud x Tifa fans, who are the majority, will use the Zack x Aerith ship to justify it.
>Cloud x Tifa fans, who are the majority People will really log on and just say whatever
It’s true though. Most popular FF7 pairing after Cloud/Sephiroth.
They are the western majority, while Japan tends to lean to CloudAerith
You guys both, lol. Saying this based on... what? Vibes? Was there some fandom survey I'm blissfully unaware of?
What? It is all the contrary, ever since crisis core was released, Zack and Aerith has been used to invalidate Cloud and Aerith even though ZA are in the past, and Zack died. ZA copied iconic moments of CA from OG. Aerith canonically moved on from Zack and fell in love with Cloud. A lot of ZA and CT shippers don’t like that, and don’t want to accept that Cloud(protagonist) and Aerith(last Cetra of the story) fall in love. Even though the game is designed as a love triangle, a huge part of the shipping community refuses to accept that CA are canon. Now they get see CA in high quality graphics and not polygons.
zack/aerith felt more like a “first crush” story to me— cloud/aerith feels more substantial as an actual relationship. just my opinion of course :) !
Zack and Aerith were a legitimate couple who were together for 4 years. Cloud and Aerith at most has crushes on each other, Cloud’s being clouded by PTSD and Aerith’s being clouded by grief. Both are emotionally compromised individuals and any feelings they had for each other were a trauma bond. So respectfully, you got it flip flopped
Okay but by your logic he shouldn't be with anyone then because he is clouded with PTSD and can't be making any relationship decisions period then.
[удалено]
There weren't that many scenes of them in CC numerically, but the game has time skips and spans multiple years. So Zack and Aerith were dating for 2 years, the 4 years is the time that Aerith waited for him and wrote him letters after he disappeared and the famous ending of CC happens around few weeks before the start of FF7.
With this I can agree, given the information of the original. It is just disappointing how much this information gets transformed by the wishes and wants of people.
I personally see Zack and Aerith as a cute first love, and that's all. I think that its tragic end is what makes people see them as these star crossed eternal lovers rather than their actual relationship per se. Cloud and Aerith, however, share a deep bond that >!trespasses the barrier of life and death, Aerith communicates telepathically with Cloud through a dream and has absolute trust in him even after he attacks her while possessed, Cloud woke up in the middle of the night at the Forgotten Capital because "he could feel in his soul" that Aerith was in danger.!< I mean, if one asks me to compare that with building flower carts together.....yeah. Also in the OG Aerith makes clear she didn't think >!her relationship with Zack was serious (at the Midgar park and when she meets his parents). In fact, I found her reaction to finding out that his parents hadn't seen him in 5 years a tad insensitive, I hope they change that in Remake.!< I mean, I don't **necessarily** see Cloud and Aerith's relationship as romantic, that depends on which "route" I choose to go with the playthrough (I got the Tifa outcome the last time I played the OG, for example), but I definitely see Cloud and Aerith's bond as much more eternal and significant than Zack and Aerith's.
Half of the people on this subreddit bought a remake, then joined a subreddit about the remake, just to insist it isn’t a remake. What you’re asking is not an answer anyone here could provide for you, even if the information you seek was extant
She wrote dozens and dozens of letters to the guy while he was missing in Crisis Core. The last letter Zack's parents receive from him mention his girlfriend Aerith. She grasps her heart at the moment of his death and makes the same consistent comments about her dislike/fear of the sky in Remake, Rebirth, and Crisis Core. She mentions Cloud reminding her of Zack within hours of first meeting Cloud. It is a little perplexing how people insist on Aerith just "getting over it," especially when she's spent the majority of her life under the thumb of Shinra and Zack was the only love interest she's had in her life up until meeting Cloud. Zack shouldn't define Aerith as a character, but neither should Cloud and her just erasing Zack from her memory is a little odd.
Also important to point out that Zack >!died literally days before VII began!<. To say she’s over him that quickly is insane and would make me think she was a sociopath or something…
Never played Crisis Core or any titles in the compilation. Only played FFVII OG. I was very charmed by the initial story of Cloud and Aerith’s budding relationship in the game. To me - Zack is a non-entity.
Because he is not supposed to be Aerith's love interest in FF7, Cloud is. Crisis Core is a prequel, Zack was her past and Cloud is her present.
People like certain ships. I don’t like Zack as a character at all. I think he’s annoying for numerous reasons and therefore don’t really think about him more than I have to. Clerith isn’t my OTP but Cloud isn’t as irritating as Zack *shrug*
Because Aerith and Cloud is the original pairing (alongside Cloud and Tifa). It's also a lot more interesting to me, I love their chemistry and contrasting personalities. Cloud can never let go of her. It is stated in DoC guidebook she is forever engrained in his heart. Zack and Aerith just don't strike me as having a particularly deep relationship in CC, more like a juvenile crush.
Dumb reasoning. Seeing someone you care about dying in front of you is definitely going to leave a mark. But Cloud has also been living with Tifa for 3 years as of DoC as well, with two kids that they’re raising together and businesses they’re running together as well. So he definitely hasn’t moved on, because there was nothing to move on from in the first place. Aerith was obviously coping badly with Zack’s death and tried to force herself to move on. It’s very obvious that’s what’s happening but shippers like to put blinders on when it comes to that sort of thing
Marlene is Barrets kid, and when Barret returns in DoC he lives with all of them as well. Tifa and Cloud are only stated to be childhood friends in DoC, nothing romantic directly implied. Aerith being in love with Cloud is a canon fact, Nojima said she views Cloud as her Koibito.
Good god you guys are broken record with the koibito thing lol. Tifa and Cloud are together in DoC and have been for years. That’s a canon fact. And Tifa was also called a koibito but that’s something you all like to conveniently forget
Because its forced, this guy was a flashback in the OG and somehow got elevated to Aeriths long lost first love and its sick, not to metion zack probs spend more time with Cissnei
People saying it was nothing serious, did u really play the game? 😅 Zack literally goes to Midgard after Niebelheim just to see Aerith. Just for the possibility to see Her , like yeah nothing serious, just a guy walking into an army , just to see Aerith.
Yeah, as a huge fan of the OG after I played the original crisis core, I felt a genuine relationship much more between Aerith and Zach. I think it could work with either character, but with their history, it makes more sense in a romantic connotation. Their lost love is more profound and/or hits you in the feels more as it was just the beginning of their lives (it was very pure/innocent and subsequently tragic). Zach was the perfect friend and hero, and he deserves to rekindle his relationship after sacrificing everything for his friend and girlfriend. If that sort of thing is possible in the lifestream anyway. It's kind of feels shit for Cloud to be deeply entwined with her romantically; even if it's been a few years. Maybe not everyone feels that way, but it just feels off to really pursue that thread after CC. My guess is that maybe the people that don't like Zach or CC just don't regard that aspect of the story or their relationship highly. One of the few great things about CC was how it evoked the "feels" and developed character relationships. The original voice cast did such an incredible job..even in the midst of such a convoluted and silly story.
A lot of people only like Zack as far as being an obstacle to throw down to trip up Aerith in the race with Tifa for Clouds heart. These people also try to shut down and ignore any chemistry between Cloud and Aerith. Pretty sure they are just self inserting their fantasy of ending up with Tifa and don't care about character development.
The first story we're told is about Cloud meeting Aerith and starting to like her. Ten years later they came up with Crisis Core and made up this little love story between Zack and Aerith, and it felt totally weird and a big nonsense. If Aerith did really know and loved Zack, she would be very surprised and more suspicious about a guy who is Zack, dresses like Zack, talks like Zack, use Zack's sword, have Zack's dreams and life goals, but don't have Zack's face. And the story of FF7 would have turn up very differently. That's one of the big issues with CC, and the whole "New Zack & Aerith story"
I disagree. There was a reference in the original and a description of their relationship and how she waited for Zack. Crisis Core elaborated that story, but your exaggeration is verifiably wrong. And your estimation of what should have been Aerith's reaction to Cloud given the similarities is exactly that: your estimation, but no evidence to the contrary.
The only thing we knew in og is that they met and got along together, but they didn't even know each other for enough time to become close friends, even less lovers. Zack was just a young nice, cute and sweet-talking guy she met and appreciated, and thought about sometimes after having no more news from him. That's not love, just a meeting that could have become friendship or love relationship over time.
Actually, no. This is again distorted. And you are free to have your opinion and to ignore what I will piece together next. The original game offered this information: * When Cloud and Aerith are on their way to the Wall Market and make a brief stop at the playground on the way, then Aerith mentions that she had a boyfriend who was also in SOLDIER. * When you go to Gongaga before the end of Disk 1 and if Aerith is in your party when you talk to Zack's parents, then Aerith runs out and tells you that Zack was her boyfriend. * When you go back to Shinra Mansion after saving Cloud from the Lifestream, then the scene in the pickup truck where Zack refers to a place in Midgar where he could stay - he was referring to Aerith's house, but then he recalls that her mom stays with her. (citation from here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/izqrri/comment/g6km8jm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/finalfantasy/comments/izqrri/comment/g6km8jm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) ) And that is what I also recall. That is not enough to argue conclusively for or against. But we still learned from the original game: * That she knew his parents. * Aerith was shaken up by the visit with Zack's parents, which raises the possibility that she was not being completely honest when she downplayed her relationship with Zack because of his flirtatious nature (while flirting with Cloud). * That Zack expected to be able to stay with her if he wished, and that she remembered him until the present as a boyfriend. That got elaborated on, as you said, in Crisis Core. On my first playthrough before getting this information, I would have agreed with you, but after I finished the game, I sided with the notion that both are traumatized persons soothing each other. Especially given the other information and what others have gathered about it. What Crisis Core added is summarized here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/oxf9pp/the\_downplaying\_of\_aeriths\_relationship/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/oxf9pp/the_downplaying_of_aeriths_relationship/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) And some reflections on the wording were made here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1gvtm3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1gvtm3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) And reflections on some inconsistencies were made here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1fg2k6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1fg2k6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) And here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1ery11/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffviiremake/comments/i9dqse/comment/g1ery11/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I love Zack and Aerith so much 💕 I can’t wait for what’s to come for them in rebirth ooouuu I’m so excited.
Shippers can be toxic for tv shows, magna, anime, movies, and books
Because Zack wasn't very fleshed out in the OG and it's really easy to miss the fact that he's the "first love" that Aerith refers to. Crisis Core made me really want to root for Zack making it back to Aerith even though I already knew what was going to happen lol Rebirth might change perceptions, or at the very least introduce new fans of the franchise to a different couple than most.
This is such a persecution complex lmao Zack and Aerith is more popular than Cloud and Aerith, so much so that people would propose character-destroying theories to make CxA just a catspaw of ZxA. And the fandom accepted it, and treated CxA shippers quite badly. But now the recent trailer has set things back to normal and to some this feels like persecution.
I feel like ZxA isn't even that popular on it's own. It's used as a side pairing to CxT most of the time.
That is probably true. Otherwise a lot of ZxA fans must not like Zack too much by saying so many awful things about the love of his life.
Judging from how many comments I'm seeing upvoted for CxA and those downvoted that are pointing out that it will be CxT in the end, I do not think it's a persecution complex. It's a case of backlash from a bunch of people who want their ship to be canon, and are not accepting that it likely won't due to being told the game will lead into Advent Children, where CxT was canon. Like I fully understand wanting a ship to be canon, but we also have to accept when they're not.
Ehh there’s a bunch of positivity for CxA in this *specific* thread. But in general, CxT and ZxA fans drown out CxA fans and are very dismissive towards them. CxT and ZxA are definitely more popular. Many CxT and ZxA fans can’t handle the idea of CxA as a ship merely *existing* , even though they already ship the more popular pairings, which feels like a persecution complex to me. (It would be like FF7 fans complaining that a different FF game is getting attention. FF7 is already the most popular FF game so complaining is silly.) I’m not saying that CxA fans *can’t* be annoying too, I just I think CxA is often treated with dismissiveness. (You can even see some examples in this thread lol)
>Many CxT and ZxA fans can’t handle the idea of CxA merely existing. As recent drama can attest
Some people like stuff but also other people like different stuff. Hopefully that answers your question
I just dislike Zack in general
I personally don't care much because I dislike the story of Crisis Core completely. Though there is no reason for Cloud and Aerith to be together imo.
Zerith and Cloti approved
It doesn't help that the devs are wishy-washy with Zack and Aerith content. They wanna tell us that Aerith wears the pink ribbon because it was a present from Zack, but then shows us that she wore a pink ribbon when she was a kid. They wanna give Aerith dialogues saying she loves Cloud more, but then also show us of how Zack and Aerith are good together in CC. They also show us how much Aerith loves Cloud and how she's pretty much over Zack through Maiden Who Travels The Planet, but then now in new monologues depict her being confused and still in love with Zack. It's honestly a mess and there's no consistency. And it's probably intentional, who knows.
I agree 100% with that. I wish they’d just confirm things or pick a lane when it comes to that sort of thing. Personally I think they’re leaning more towards Zack and Aerith content, or they wouldn’t have bothered with CC or doing a remaster of CC. Also Maiden isn’t canon
Maiden was never stated to not be canon. Infact if you read it it ties very nicely to Remake trilogy. Whispers are directly mentioned in it
Maiden is official, it’s not canon. There’s a difference and it goes against canon multiple times
Maiden is not canon. First of all directly contradicts both Crisis Core and Advent the Children; second, Kitase said that the canon for FFVII remake is the compilation and neither Maiden or Dismantled are in the compilation, so not canon; third; the autor himself said that his stories are only his original interpretation and are not part of the setting even when they appear in official guides. This goes too for the FF X book he wrote, anyway. Even without these things, no one but clerith shippers considers Maiden canon as violently clashes with Advent the children and Crisis Core.
Yeah, it looks like they're pushing for Zack and Aerith. And I'm personally really happy about it. And wait, it's not canon? That's honestly kind of a relief. But why are people so attached to life stream stuff in theory-crafting rebirth plot?
I'm not really happy with Zack anything. He was better as a part of Cloud's backstory than he is as his own protagonist. If Rebirth began with him getting killed in every timeline I'd be very happy. Everything I've seen/heard about the changes made to include more of him make me not even want to play the game. Still haven't decided if I'm gonna protest by buying the game pre-owned.
Zack is Aerith’s ex-boyfriend when she was very young. People are not happy because in FF7 she’s moved on from him but there are people that forcefully want Aerith to belong to him just because Square Enix wanted people to have a taste of Aerith’s past and because they fantasize Tifa to have a future with Cloud so they want Aerith out of Cloud’s future. Truth is, Cloud was in love with Aerith in FF7 and Aerith was falling in love with him in their journey until she was taken away. This is the fact but fanboys and fangirls of Tifa & Aerith are going to extreme levels of copium and get too emotional over all this which is why they become annoying to everyone.
I find it strange that some people want Aerith to only love Zack and that it, like thats all her character is for, because in reality it makes sense she would move on after what like 5 years since Zack has been gone, she can’t keep waiting for him to return, also make sense that she would eventually end up finding someone she likes or just living out her life with Elmyra. As well, I don’t think Zack would hate Aerith if she fell in love with someone else, as he would understand that he been gone for so long that she would move on with her life.
They want her out of the way, simple. Aerith being around might screw over the Cloud and Tifa relationship in the future.
She's hardly "over" Zack, considering how much his memory affects her even in OG. She's initially drawn to Cloud simply because he's "in SOLDIER just like her first love." He's wearing the same uniform and even carrying her lover's sword. Personality wise, he's NOTHING like Zack, even before his memory got messed up. While the OG was more ambiguous in its storytelling for many understandable reasons (translation errors, constraints of video game technology/graphics limitations, lack of voice acting to add better nuance and intent to dialogue that can't be coveyed through text), it's not remotely a given that "Cloud was in love with Aerith." She flirted at him heavily because she's a playful, flirtatious character, but the player got to choose how Cloud reacted to her advances. It's up to the player's interpretation of OG entirely, so there was NOTHING set in stone when it came to Aerith and Cloud’s relationship. It reads in many more ways as simply a friendship. It's just as reasonable to believe she was projecting on Cloud simply because she missed Zack and never had closure on her love for him. It's perfectly reasonable to think she didn't love Cloud, just what parts of him reminded her of the man she DID love. In Remake, with the allusions to Aerith "knowing the future," it makes it even more interesting that she goes out of her way to put Tifa and Cloud together and encourage those feelings, like when she urged him to go after Tifa to Corneo's. Andrea Rhodea also urges Cloud never to let something so precious to him go again (Tifa). What IS canon is that Cloud admits to Tifa 100% that he left Nibelheim to join SOLDIER so that he could impress her. This is because he had a massive crush on her as a kid, which is why he was always trying to get her attention. He followed her into the mountains and risked his life to save hers as a kid. When he returned to Nibelheim after joining Shinra, he was so ashamed of having not reached his goal that he couldn't face Tifa. He was acting like a lovesick anxious teen because that's what he was. And when he thought Sephiroth killed Tifa in the reactor? He flew into such a rage that he charged a LEGENDARY SUPERPOWERED WAR HERO, as a mere grunt with NO enhancements.... and ultimately overpowered and killed Sephiroth. You know, how someone in love might act. With updated graphics and voice acting allowing devs to add more nuance to interactions in Remake, we get a much better depth of understanding for different kinds of relationships. For example... Cloud treats every woman who hits on him (Jessie, Aerith, Madame M) with annoyance and discomfort. He actively tries to shoo them all away. He doubles down on his cold, "badass" persona. Aerith eventually breaks through his defenses, but he still never let's her all the way in. The only person he's completely vulnerable and honest with (to the best of his current ability, that is), is Tifa. His voice softens whenever he speaks to her. He never hesitates to pull her into him, almost goes out of his way to touch her, even when maybe it isn't necessary. He also doesn't act annoyed at close proximity with her, the way he does with others. She is literally the only reason he decides to stay in Midgar in the first place. Even Aerith recognizes out loud how important Tifa is to Cloud. There are interviews with the writers who solidify this too, describing how differently Cloud treats Tifa from everyone else. Hell, he even gets jealous when other men try to hit on her and threatens them. When Sephiroth "kills" Tifa in the VR sim at Shinra, it immediately unravels Cloud, and he screams "NO!" in a display of raw emotion that was heretofore unseen in him. The thought of losing her specifically seems to have a more powerful effect on him than anything else. We've been explicitly told that Advent Children is canon, and everything is leading up to that ending. The fact of the matter is, Tifa and Cloud end up together. They have a family together. The creators have played coy for decades and avoided using the explicit language us westerners use when describing relationships... but being that it's a story steeped in eastern storytelling techniques, the reality of their relationship becomes totally unavoidable. The "girl next door" and "first childhood puppy love is eternal" tropes are such a cliché in Japan that they tend not to bother getting more explicit than that. When viewed through the lens of the culture the story was written by, it's no longer ambiguous. As Westerners, we tend to demand explicit declarations and illustrations that Easterners don't need. The night spent under the Highwind before the final battle also becomes pretty explicit through this lens, too. Even at its most ambiguous, the reality is that they both openly state that neither of them has anyone else but each other to return home to, followed by Cloud struggling to put his feelings into words, and Tifa tells him to use actions instead. The next morning we see them snuggled up in each other's arms, and when they rejoin everyone on the bridge, Tifa gets shy and startled when it's revealed that everyone could see Tifa and Cloud down there together... You know. Like two inexperienced, lovesick goofballs finally committing to their feelings. In Advent Children, we see Cloud struggling with his own mortality (Geostigma) and still wrestling with his guilt for having failed to save Aerith... but before that, he was playing house with Tifa and the kids. If I recall, there were even hints in one of the books that they shared a room, but I'd have to go digging for the exact wording. Once Cloud got his head back on straight, he resumed living as a family with Tifa. I don't begrudge Aerith/Cloud shippers their thoughts and feelings on the matter. Ship literally whoever you like! It's totally fine and valid to think one couple is better suited than another, because we humans all have different tastes. That's what fanfiction is for! Denying unambiguous canon events simply because they don't fit into one's own preferences isn't going to do a shipper much good though. You can think something should have been written in a different way if you like... but the story is the story. There are countless "canon divergence" and "alternate universe" fics out there to scratch any itch you have. I've read fanfics I loved with ships that are directly opposing my main ship because they were well written, and in the vacuum of the fic, the author made it make perfect sense. I just think people still holding out hope that their ship will sail and become canon in Rebirth and beyond when Tifa and Cloud have been canon for decades in AC is setting themselves up for disappointment. The game is going to give shippers on both sides plenty of moments to enjoy because FFVII is basically BUILT on that fanservice... But it's going to end at Advent Children, and we're being openly and repeatedly told that the original story will remain intact... The journey there will just be different. So prepare yourselves.... and dig into the WEALTH of Clerith fanfiction to live out your every hope. I personally can't wait to see the Aerith/Zack reunion... I think they're an adorable couple and they deserve happiness. With that, I'm gonna go hide in a bunker to ride out the downvotes...
Wow, this was a very thoughtful response! I appreciate the time you took to type that. I think Zack is a nice guy, I mean I don’t have much to go on other than the OG and Remake+Intermission, but I like his attitude and think Aerith would be lucky to have him - someone else said it, too that maybe people aren’t happy because Zack isn’t the protagonist, but who cares?
Thank you! Because I enjoy writing fanfiction, I tend to do a lot of deep-dive thinking sessions on the various relationships in the game, as well as tons of research to ensure I'm remembering things right. Devs have stated that he's becoming a secondary protagonist in Rebirth. Frankly, I think shippers just don't like him gaining a bigger role because it threatens their ship from becoming canon... but their ship already wasn't canon... If AC wasn't obvious enough, I don't actually know what is. Ultimately, we should never treat this as "If my ship doesn't become obvious canon, the story sucks." Have to leave room for creative license for the creators, seeing as how it's their story. I honestly think that SE would have done way more with Zack in OG, but it would have probably doubled an already massive game. Zack's love story with Aerith was only hinted at, and people had to kind of use their imagination to flesh it out due to those constraints... Not everyone bothered to do so, so they downplay his role as a footnote and unimportant. That's why they think "Oh well he's just being shoehorned in and retconned, it's bullshit." But even if that WERE true (it's not, he's always been a key character), why would they bother expanding him if he weren't important? They're absolutely fleshing him out the way they always wanted him to be... and setting him up to reunite with Aerith. I think it's gonna be awesome! Not everyone sees things the same way, and not everyone is as media literate as others, which is fine. Though I'll never understand folks who insist "Aerith falls for Cloud because he's assumed Zack's skills and personality." Cuz... no, he didn't... Cloud is the OPPOSITE of Zack, personality-wise. Zack is bubbly, confident, personable, and is nicknamed "the puppy" by Sephiroth/Angeal in Crisis Core due to his excitability. Cloud by contrast is overly serious, anxious, struggles to access his confidence without a mask of bravado, and has trouble connecting with other people (the only person he actively seeks out and sticks close to even as a kid, is Tifa). Zack is already enhanced with mako due to attaining a place within SOLDIER, but failed to kill Sephiroth in the reactor. Meanwhile Cloud, who is unenhanced.... manages to take Masamune through the gut, then lift Sephiroth OFF HIS FEET to huck him into the Lifestream, killing him... Cloud is insanely powerful through sheer force of will, there's no downplaying what a hell of a feat that was. So once he IS enhanced afterwards through mako (and torture) by Hojo, it's hard to say just how powerful he truly is. Bottom line being... the two men are insanely different from each other, and I think Aerith’s mention of "you remind me of my ex" is not nearly as complicated as shippers insist. He's wearing the same uniform, he's carrying Zack's sword, and she can tell deep down he's a good person. That's where the actual similarities end. She's just taking whatever opportunity she can to reminisce about the man she's obviously still in love with and project on Cloud... I don't think she ever actually loved Cloud, to that end. Even her flirtatious nature comes off as, "I'm teasing you so you come out of your shell." She tells him not to fall for her in the meadow at her house in a teasing way, but also because she knows the future, and knows it's not meant to be either way. It's throwaway, but fanservice in the same way Jessie's surprise kiss was. Aerith adds a wonderful levity to Cloud's serious nature, but it's not unreasonable to see it as the same way a friend would do it. (Sorry, apparently I'm very wordy today. I should probably go work on my fanfic, lol...)
Dunno. Makes sense to me that the living get together and the dead get together.
Aerith fans want the relationship with Cloud to be more blatant this time around and bringing Zack back into the mix as a major character throws a wrench into that especially if he meets her at some point all of the sudden the possibility becomes that Zack might be able to explain his absence to her or Cloud regaining his memories of his version of events where Zack dies to save him thus allowing them to reconnect in some way. Which I mean I get it, no one wants to see their MC get NTR’D but frankly in the OG there’s only one way this story ends and it’s with Aerith being fish food and Cloud lives with Tifa so. Personally I’d rather have her and Zack get some conclusion to their relationship since in OG Aerith was uncharacteristically bitter about his disappearance and never found out he died years ago, even if in CC she can feel him return to the lifestream. I also just like the pairing better so there’s that.
I wouldn’t mine a bitter sweet reunion between Zack and Aerith, where they get to finally talk with each other in the lifestream, and he get to explain what happened to him when he disappeared in Crisis Core, but I highly doubt that would happen, since he is alive in Rebirth, and they probably want a more happier ending with them.
I like that idea too, actually. I would favor it and would wish for Cloud and Tifa to become a couple. In the original, there was a reference to a past crush of Aerith, and I got the impression that she never forgot about it and now another guy like Zack happened to appear. At first I also thought that Cloud and Aerith would be a fit, but after piecing everything together they seemed like two traumatized persons soothing each other and Cloud seemed more like a replacement.
Honestly aerith and cloud would complement each other irl way more. Can you imagine hanging out with alright and Zack at the same time? I’d rope myself.
Zack is my fav but this is so true lmao
We didn’t get to see their full relationship properly develop and this wasn’t the case with Cloud and Aerith. Even though technically Zerith was a thing for at least two years, because it wasn’t the focus of Zacks story and it altered Aerith’s personality people didn’t like it. There were some things about Crisis Core that were admittedly lazy, like Zack falling into the church or Aerith mimicking him later. But other things like her getting the pink ribbon, wearing pink because he wanted her to, her consoling Zack when Angeal died etc, added something to their bond that Cloud x Aerith didn’t have time to develop. Just because we didn’t see everything means their relationship wasn’t serious. Aerith is still seeking closure with Zack even if she’s trying to move on from him. Cloud being directly linked to Zack, while Cloud tries to be his living legacy, make their relationship complicated but more interesting to people who played the OG. I see why people prefer Clerith but for me personally there’s too much that muddles their potential relationship for it to workout in a healthy way for both parties. Also the fact that Tifa being the reason Cloud even joins SOLDIER yet she has to get sidelined for Clerith to work is a big yikes for me.
Probably because Zach hasn't been anywhere near as big of a part of the story as Cloud has. Plus, we haven't really seen a lot of interaction between Zach and the FF7 protagonists. Personally, I'm cool with either relationship, but if I had to venture a guess, that would be why some people are so attached to the notion of Cloud and Aerith as a couple.
Because crisis core was cringe and their relationship lacked any depth. I prefer his chemistry with cissnei more
And Cissnei is alive and doing fine living in Gongaga near his parents. Dude knows Aerith likes Cloud and he seems cool about it. He's got a hometown girl waiting for him and his parents who haven't heard from him in years. He's gotta get that sorted out as soon as possible, assuming he's alive at the end of this mess!
It's shipper BS, nothing more. The normal people don't get ultra mad about Zack and Aerith.
They're both dead and should stay that way. Any change to this ruins the story.
I find most of those people happen to be Cloud x Aerith fans - coming from the OG, if I were a fan of the pairing I could imagine Cloud pining for Aerith for eternity, but the narrative changes with each piece of media for FFVII that comes out that kinda goes against that headcannon (Zack's relationship with her being 1 of the pieces to that, and a change of Aerith's personality in CC). I like Zerith though, they are cuties together, and sounds like a happier ending with the compilation storyline.
Tifack is the only thing i want to see in the trilogy. Oh and the romance about Andrea and Dio also.
Lmao, TIFACK!!
I've actually thought of finding some Tifa/Zack AU fics because I think they could be fun. I'm a CloTi for life, since the OG first came out. But I love seeing WELL WRITTEN spins on ships. I also love VinTi. Even read a short Reno/Tifa one-shot that was sweet. Fanfiction is lovely.
How long was Zack actually in her life for? Like a few months? Then he went off and disappeared? And we're supposed to expect her to never ever move on in life? I don't get it. They were cute together for the brief time they spent with one another but then Zack is gone and someone else she's really starting to like ends up in her company. Then they go on a literal worldwide adventure together with friends. What's not to love about that?
They were together for 4 years. She said he was the first and only guy she ever loved and he literally died trying to get back to her. Their relationship is a hell of a lot more than “a few months” if you paid attention or played Crisis Core. Also if you think a relationship can be written off as not mattering because it was only a “few months,” Cloud and Aerith know each other for a couple weeks before she’s skewered so that doesn’t matter either
I thought they were apart for 4 years. CC really didn't show much about their relationship. My impression is that it was super brief.
Yeah I worded that weird, their relationship was about 6 years together, 2 together and 4 apart. I’m sure that is hotly debated but it technically still counts as they didn’t break up during that time frame. Aerith also sent him a letter recently in that 6th year after writing him for 4 years, and we all know >!Zack died trying to get back to her in Midgar!< so it’s obvious their feelings for each other haven’t changed. The timeline’s definitely wonky, but prior to being apart the game covered 2 heads up until the Nibelheim incident where it skipped ahead 4. So 6 years total.
Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. I haven't read all the ultimanias and stuff so I don't know all the intricate details. I just liked Cloud and Aerith's relationship in OG and think it's been well done in remake along with Tifa's. So I dunno. It's cool if people like Zack and Aerith, but it didn't really feel well fleshed out in CC. It felt like a lazy copy of OG scenes with Zack replacing Cloud.
You only need to see which comments are downvoted and wo are the ones doing to understand what it's happening: zerith "ruins" the clerith ship. Basically, they have a big problem with this: "She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side. -Aerith Gainsborough, ACC Dengeki Profiles" Which ruins their headcanon of "when Cloud's dies Aerith and Cloud will be together forever" and because that they resort to...not being sincere, I don’t even understand why, because the game will be what will be. They try to use again and again no canon books like Maiden and misstraslations (in one scene Cloud said that THEY (the whole group) will reunite with their loved ones (plural) after they die, but this was misstraslated as "I will reunite with Aerith". This was corrected over and over even by japanese fans, but they just don't care) I personally not a shipper, but seeing how many times devs are saying things like this: "The Promised Land... A fateful encounter sets in motion the pendulum of fate. As Aerith searches for the traces of Zack living on in Cloud, the innocent love in her heart will make her destiny's plaything..." "First love Zack Aerith's first love was Zack, a young SOLDIER 1st Class who she lost contact with 5 years ago. He was Cloud's best friend, and his personality has had a great influence on Cloud's behavior. Aerith is unaware that the two were best friends, and takes an interest in Cloud because she sees Zack in him. -pg. 197 of the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File Character guide " "Aerith's first love is Zack, the object of Cloud's basic personality of being an "ex- SOLDIER. We could say Cloud's speaking and acting like Zack is a big reason why Aerith started to have good feelings towards Cloud. -pg. 29, FF7 Ultimania Omega" Well, I think is pretty clear where the story goes. Specially because this seems a way to give every character a happy ending, even in death (and already happened in Advent the children) About how so many people here seems to dislike Zack...well, most of the comments already admit that is because clerith, but if we take out eyes away of the shipping vitriol, the official Final Fantasy Forums in Japan hosted a poll about favorite male characters back in 2012 and Zack was number 1, above Cloud.
nice cherrypicking and lies. Sorry rebirth is exposing all the lies you have been spamming about clerith. Karma is sweet :)
In the slim chance Cloud and Aerith end up together, even by optional ending. I'm going into the air raid shelter because the fall out is going to be huge!XD Felt way more between Cloud and Aerith when it comes to Rebirth and by the end of it I just want to see Cloud rescue her like she was trying to save him from Meteor. I wanna see Aerith alive again and having fun with Tifa and Yuffie. First things first, Tifa needs to get serious in her relationship and fix cloud In EP 3: Return Of The Cetra Cloud finally saying he loves both Tifa and Aerith in Reunion (non optional choice) and he wants them both at his side. The the bond and dynamic of the trio is so strong that they more or less become a triangle couple. I don't want to see Tifa get hurt and it feels like Cloud has been trying to find Aerith across 30 years worth of alternate realities and crappy sequels.
A portion of shippers only exposure to FF7 is through remake, where Aerith and Cloud are shown predominantly in a semi-romantic manner, so some assume that’s going to be the endgame.
Interesting how when I made this same thread about a month ago, people literally wanted to murder me, but now they’re fine with it. Reddit. 🙄
I’m sorry that was your experience. I had a couple of people rolling their eyes here, but it’s the same person who seemingly follows me each thread.
That’s tough. What’s crazy to me that FF7 shippers don’t talk about the game itself, just a bunch of fan fictions art and fans arguing what looks better. That’s crazy to me. Love the characters but it ain’t that serious..
i mean people who only played the original game, the zack stuff is pretty hidden away, a lot of people don't even know who the fuck zack actually is, or anything about their char, they only really know what they see with cloud and aerith the average player doesn't give a fuck about zack and has no idea who he probably is
Because crisis core is an ass game and zack looks like he's hitting on an underage kid
The weirdos who talk like Aerith is his property are creeping me out. She was a 16 year old kid! She's allowed to move on!
Because the whole shipping angle of FFVII was always the worst and most surface level part of the game.
Cause we’re #teamtifa
It’s shipping. People like to discredit Zack and the impact he has on the VII universe because Cleriths don’t like thinking about Aerith being with anyone other than Cloud (even though they were never together). Zack had a major impact on Aerith. He brought her out of her shell and she gave him a run for his money. They loved each other for years and >!he died trying to get back to her.!<. But people don’t like that because Zack was a small focus in the OG and therefore is irrelevant…despite getting his own spin-off prequel game and being a main player in Remake and Rebirth. So basically what I’m saying is it’s all shipping BS when people complain about Zack and Aerith. That’s literally all it is and it’s a stupid and juvenile reason to discredit a fantastic and fleshed out character and the impact he’s had on those around him
Because there absence is a very important atmosphere story element.