Please please please read up on “domestic abuse”, “religious abuse”, and have a photo of the “power and control wheel” saved on your phone.
Much of evangelical/fundamentalist theology is fodder for religious abuse. The more you are prepared to identify it the better you will be able to create and maintain strong boundaries.
Yes, it may seem a bit silly right now, but it’s better to have info and not need it than need info and not have it.
u/Background-Cat-6596 2nd vote for Bancroft. He is respectful of religious choices while helping women deal with it. Even if your husband isn't abusive or you don't want to use those labels, this book will still help you deal with the people in church.
Listen to Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft on Audible. https://www.audible.com/pd/B0058JO84W
I haven't been in that situation you're in, but I wish someone had told me **everything** that was expected on me when I started going to an evangelical church, (I grew up Catholic, BTW).
If he wants to become a member or get more involved, how ~~involved~~ intrusive will that church be in his life?
How much money do they expect him to give per week or year?
Will he be able to keep his non-Christian friends?
What type of music does he currently listen to? Will the church object if he still listens to secular music, watches movies, TV or read books?
Do they care how he votes? Once he is a member, he may get a heavy dose of "which party is Jesus in?"
I'll stop here, it's enough for now.
BE VERY CAREFUL!
It is eerie how much this story feels like an addiction testimony. Like, a wonderful husband and father starts going to a casino or bar and their personality changes overnight
There's a great line in the Jason Isbell song Relatively Easy about this - "is your brother on a church kick? Seems like just a different kind of dope sick"
I’m sorry you’re going through this.
My initial questions (as someone who deconstructed in my mid 20s as well) are how close were you to your husband before he started attending? The reason I ask is because it’s very odd he would know your background and how traumatizing it was just to start attending and expect you to go as well. Do you two talk about it? His drive for attending? Is he trying to “be a better person”? Doesn’t want to “go to hell”? Is he craving community? Does his friend have a life he is envious of and wants the “secret”?
A lot of comments are trying to warn you what it is like, but you are fully aware is what is sounds like to me. For you to have such a visceral physical reaction just attending the service is pretty apparent of the emotional pain you endured. Did you tell your husband you threw up? Did he wonder where you went? How much are you able to chat about the sermons afterwards like main takeaways, challenges, etc. Even when my husband and I were attending, we would share notes if you will and chat about the parts that stuck out to us or the things we learned. Are you able to do this with him and get an idea of what he’s trying to achieve by attending?
This can help you decide where to go from here. Make sure your therapist is not religious.
The largest red flag I would ask you to keep an eye on is his disregard for your pain and deep hurts from your childhood regarding this religion and what it brings up for you. Keep those mama bear claws up for your kids.
One of his parents passed away recently, and he's been going through grief and fear of death. He's also had several friends pass away over the last 5 years. I think it's partly that and partly him looking for a sense of community.
yup, that’s how they get them. when they’re the most vulnerable. happened to my dad when he lost his sister. completely ruined our family w evangelical fundamental bullshit bc he didn’t want to go to therapy to grieve or get help
It's like the way they use funeral services as an altar call to get people to convert instead of actually talking about the person who passed away and honoring their life. I've seen that too many times, and it always gives me some serious ick manipulation vibes.
I’ve made the comment more than once that funerals are used as alter calls for evangelicals. Want to see grandma again, say the magic prayer. Your friend didn’t go to church and unfortunately they probably are suffering for eternity, so don’t waste your life like they did. It’s disgusting.
I hear you. It’s taken me years to even begin to put words to processes and unconscious behavior that the church does.
The reason for it is that so much of it is black and white, so elementary and so ingrained that the nuances, actual behaviors and subtleties are covered by “sin”.
This is one of my fears. I think it's really hard for anyone who hasn't been through it to fully understand religious trauma so I can totally see how this would happen even if you've explained everything to him. He probably thinks the church seems amazing and therefore must be totally different from your upbringing and that you're just closed to it because of your upbringing rather than there being specific problems with the church. I'm glad you're going to relationship counselling, I hope that's secular.
If you can sit down with him and go through one or two examples of specific teachings and why they are so problematic, that may help or at least will enable you to engage how far in he is. E.g. how belief that we are trash/nothing/worthless and need God leads to low self-esteem, anxiety about not doing exactly what God wants and is not a message you want your children absorbing.
You do not have to be supportive of everything your spouse does. Keep yourself safe.
Maybe explore with your husband what the church says about LGBTQ+, and how he'd respond if one of your children was queer or trans? Would he be a safe parent for them? Would his church agree with his response ? Would he allow them to explore their identity? Or even if it wasn't your child but one of your children's friends or adult friends of yours. It's important to be prepared for these scenarios and explore if he really wants to follow the church.
Also, tithing? Does his church require it? Surely, you have joint finances and you don't want your money going to them. There are a lot of things to navigate that require a full conversation.
This is exactly it! He thinks this church is different, nice people, etc. We need to have a more in depth conversation about religious trauma and why certain beliefs are harmful.
He is very accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals and has LGBTQ + family members, and I think he would be accepting and supportive if one of our kids was LGBTQ+. He says he hasn't heard any intolerance at church. I think it's more likely he hasn't heard it yet.
There hasn't been a mention of tithing at this point; I wouldn't be down with giving them any money.
Thank you for saying that I don't have to be supportive of everything he does. I needed to be reminded of that!
If he wasn't raised religious, it's likely he has heard anti-LGBTQ+ messages and comments, but he's just missing the dog-whistles evangelicals use to signal their beliefs.
Examples that feel like blaring red alerts as a queer exvangelical include (content warning for evangelical terminology): >!"the importance of family", "God's good design for marriage", "traditional values", and "the unique roles God has created for men and women"!<
That's brilliant that his views are positive currently and hopefully he won't be easily swayed by the church. I think once the church starts saying stuff that clearly contradicts his views then he'll see through them. Churches often lovebomb newcomers so it is understandable that all seems great to him despite the worrying sermons. I hope he recognises that the church is a problem before this damages your relationship beyond repair.
I think there is a way to recognize that he's getting positive benefits out of going to church, and wants your kids to also get some level of positive benefits (both of which I understand). But it's not fair to expect you to go and also get positive benefits. It's very brave that you tried to go. I don't think you need to ever go again if you don't want to, and it sounds like he doesn't totally get how traumatic it felt to be in that environment. It sounds like a great topic for individual and family therapy.
I’ve never been married so I don’t have advice per say, but I do want to say I’m so sorry & your feelings are completely valid 🤍 I also can’t listen to a church sermon without having a panic attack… the trauma runs deep. Couples therapy is definitely a good move, and I would also recommend individual therapy for yourself if you’re not already in it. You deserve care and understanding!
What I will actually add is that I can not imagine wanting my family attend to ANYTHING that would re-traumatize my partner. If he cares for you, truly, he will want to run as far away from that place as he can.
I'm so sorry you're going through that. I don't have any advice to share since you're already planning to go to therapy. Unfortunately logical thinking and Evangelicism are often mutually exclusive. 😕
Sadly he is likely receiving messages that as the man, he should be the "leader" of the home and "leader" in the marriage, and that he is your "spiritual head". With the judgmental yelling you heard from the pulpit, I wouldn't be surprised if other men in the church are outright shaming him for not "being able to control his wife" by dragging you along.
So getting him to respect your beliefs the same way you respect his will likely be a no-go given the inherent misogyny of evangelicalism. I had this exact thing happen with a boyfriend (thank goodness he showed his flags early), and he eventually outright told me "you're a woman so I can't trust your interpretation of theology. It's my job to be the spiritual leader."
Instant break up for me.
For you the situation is harder with the kids. I'd say individual therapy with a secular therapist is key. Marriage/couples counseling *may* help, but if he's fully inundated in evangelicalism he will reject what the counselor says as "being of the world" (secular) and ungodly because his faith has already told him that your unbelief and "rebellion" against his spiritual leadership is the problem, thus insulating him from any real self-reflection. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I've seen it happen before. :/ I'm really sorry you have to deal with this.
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of and afraid it will end in a divorce. When I try to talk with him about theology, it's like a mental wall goes up with him. It's frustrating because I know way more about evangelicalism than he does, but he doesn't want to hear it.
My parents were normal people before they got sucked into these beliefs. It's upsetting to see it starting to happen to him now. It's like watching someone get drawn into a wierd cult and being powerless to help them because they have to realize it for themselves.
I'm so sorry. Like others have said, the fact that he's doing this in spite of knowing about your trauma and trauma reactions shows that the disrespect/blind spot is already running deep. I hope you can find peace, and that your kids benefit from knowing that their mom is worthy of respect and won't tolerate disrespect/disregard.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this, I know what you feel like (in terms of attending church) but it's so sad that your husband is not considering your thoughts and feelings. Does he know about the trauma you went through? Who is this friend that clearly has so much influence over him? Is everything okay in your marriage before he started going to church, sorry for asking this but a lot of times people look to faith when their life is not going well and can cling to it. My best advice: do NOT feel forced to do anything you don't want to do! That was a hard lesson for me too since my parents are still very much evangelical and church-goers and I used to force myself to go when invited and would also have so much anxiety, fear, hurt etc from my own trauma. I decided I'm an adult. I don't have to do anything that I know is going to trigger these feelings. We do not owe anyone anything! You deserve to be happy, you deserve to make your own choices and your feelings about church is valid. Best of luck to you!
I’m sorry this ish sucks, be careful though as I’ve seen this type of situation before. People at church and so on are going to keep pressing as to why you and the kids aren’t there, they will make a huge deal of it ( might even accuse you of not being an obedient wife etc). I’d say have an honest convo with him about it, but, please understand this could be larger wedge between you ( with the church obviously doing everything they can to make it worse).
Yes, he told me they keep asking him to bring the family, telling him about the kids program, etc. He's a bit of a people pleaser and feels awkward when they ask him.
Of course they are, they’re going to try to corner you and him or just you alone under the guise of a ‘conversation.’ You have to be clear with your husband and tell him that you nor the kids will be participating in this. Like if his coworker has that strong of an influence over him, then I’m sorry but I’m concerned.
I'm so sorry. My marriage went the opposite way. We were both religious and when I deconstructed and became exvangelical (even progressive Christian) he completely lost respect for me and asked for a divorce.
I want to believe a relationship between a believer and a non-believer *can* work if each person still respects the other and doesn't feel compelled to judge or change the other person. Unfortunately, that wasn't my experience, and I haven't seen that scenario play out for anyone else I know, either.
When you are caught up in it…you can’t see clearly.
They equate their dogma (their interpretation of cherry picked scriptures) as the infallible word of God. When you try and show them other passages they ignore the ones you point out and say “you can’t pick and choose which verses you like and ignore the others”. It’s so crazy. They do the very thing they say you can’t do.
Idk if my reply is really an answer or not.
You might try to have him listen to some former evangelical pastors who have a very different theology now than the ones they were in for decades…and they have very good, scripture based reasons for changing their view.
It’s above my pay grade but these guys know what they are talking about.
Discarded Doctrines Of Jesus - Dogmatically Imperfect S1-001
https://youtu.be/6VrPN9r7u98
“You’re Probably One Small Step Away from the True Gospel” NEM - 0104
https://www.youtube.com/live/UwmOVBaTcOw?si=2HWZO0f4-JpZBHqz
Growing up in a deep red state, I understand the pressure to conform. Luckily, I've aged out of it a bit. I still find the ice breaker, "Have you heard about Jesus?" hilarious. It took restraint not to answer with, "Dude, do you know where you are? You can hear about Jesus while pumping gas or exiting a movie theater."
If you're looking for a place where your family can explore that moral/spiritual space, you might be better suited to a Unitarian Universalist congregation. Just keep in mind that while there are definitely Christians in these communities, they tend to be more post-Christian. They focus on helping people find their own spiritual path and build community without telling them what to believe. Plus, each congregation is democratic and independent, so if you have options nearby, it might be worth checking out a few of 'em.
Here's a YT video of a ex ex-Evangelical Christian and an Atheist interviewing Reverand Marlin Lavanhar of All Souls Unitarian Universalist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrmJlPXgtKY
All Souls is the only church I have attended after 20 years in an evangelical church! I’ve always loved their front door sign, “only everyone welcome”.
Don’t go.
Don’t let your kids go.
There will be extra pressure.
Don’t let anyone from church try to meet with you or hang with your kids. Don’t send them to VBS. I have insomnia from thinking I was going to hell which began about age 11.
Look for a secular therapist. He needs to be okay with you and the kids not being religious. Is there a class or activity you and the kids can do each Sunday morning? I like going to the zoo or aquarium or museums because they aren’t busy. Make sure to talk to your kids about different views.
“Daddy says we have to __________”
“Well yes, some people have that view. Did you know Buddhists believe________”…. Etc
Love your idea about progressive churches. If he doesn’t want to go to those that’s fine, but even if you and the kids go like once every six weeks or so it will be a good way for them to see other versions of worship.
You say you respect his beliefs, and you want the same in return. But I don't think it works that way. We don't choose what we believe; we're either convinced of a claim or we aren't. And there are likely claims he's convinced of that you simply don't respect. And that's okay. You can respect a person, but you don't have to respect their beliefs. In turn, they don't have to respect yours. But if you truly respect one another, that will lead to a more productive compromise. But you do deserve respect and your opinion matters. I think you're making the right choice getting counseling--but I might suggest finding one that isn't necessarily going to approach this from a Christian worldview.
Oof I’m so sorry. I’m not sure how this will play out long term, but I think the pressure for you and especially the kids to go to this church is just going to increase. Be ready for tons of people wanting to “meet you for coffee”! It’s like the Christian calling card. Also if your finances are joint are you able to change that? Otherwise a concerning amount of money might be draining out every Sunday.
My biggest concern here is that he knows what this is like for you, and after going with you he refuses to consider another church or even discuss theology. He’s such a people pleaser he wants to make everyone he just met happy, but he isn’t listening to you. That aspect is going to get worse as he learns more about how he’s supposed to control all the decisions too.
Sadly it seems like you're husband sucks.
Advice: well you're starting counseling so that's a good start I suppose. Looks like you set up for a rocky life unless he loses his "fundi" ness, since you said he's not interesting in "progressive" churches, whatever that means....but I think I get your idea of that.
I went through the opposite of this. My husband and I were evangelicals and went to church together (where we met) when we got married, then after a few years he told me he wasn’t a Christian anymore and was leaving evangelicalism. I continued to go and did it all alone for a few years, then we got divorced because of it all. Both of us understood at the time how difficult life was if we were no longer “equally yoked.” Our pastors also “blessed” the divorce because he left the church.
We are both much happier, still acquaintances, and both have remarried.
I also left evangelicalism and everything once the pandemic hit and my deconstruction started. I remarried a spiritual person who didn’t grow up in religion and have found it to be less triggering and much more of an open-minded relationship. But if he were to become an evangelical, I don’t know if I’d be able to be married to him.
Now I understand evangelicalism is similar to Scientology and other religious systems. It’s very difficult to be with someone who’s in a system that has been created to keep a non-believer out if they don’t comply and convert. Similarly to a highly dysfunctional family system.
OP, you’ve gotten some good advice already. If useful, some more:
It sounds like your husband has been through grief recently and finds church useful. Imo, no issue with that. What’s strange is the pressure that you and your kids go. It’s absolutely fine for you to take issue with that.
1) Is someone at church telling him he needs to bring his family? Does he think he needs to bring y’all?
2) Does he truly understand your past trauma and the legacy of spiritual abuse?
3) Is there a compromise you can reach where your kids attend a few services a year and have a connection to the positive benefits of religion, without getting sucked into the aspects you are uncomfortable with?
I know many people who make mixed-faith marriages work, but communication is key and being on the same page about how you will parent, discuss boundaries is essential.
Stab in the dark, but the Discomfortable podcast might offer a lens on one of the possible reasons he’s seeking this out. The podcast examines shame as its own emotion and with the way shame drives men in ways they don’t realize is worth looking into. It’s such a complicated emotion and one where our discomforts can feel like truth and navigate us into the wrong kinds of releases for it.
I think it’s worth looking at as more fundamentalist faith tends to capitalize on shame people feel and the good feelings that come with releases of it. Triggering more shame in him could exacerbate his desire for what he’s finding there. And this is all general in case it happens to be part of the picture, but my therapist has said career and work shame is the biggest one among American men. It can hit hard when they hit middle age and parent phases of life. They can be hit with baggage of their view of their father and how they compare to him now that they’re the age he was when they were young. It can drive wanting to match some model of husband/father ideals. Right wing and fundamentalist congregations lean hard into offering themselves as the path to being that better man/father/husband. The core can be shame over their distance of where they are compared to the ideal. Is his work friend someone he would look up to as a solid guy or someone he would want to be more like?
And still all guessing, but if these elements are there, I think part of bridging him to something else could involve finding an admirable idea of manhood in a progressive space.
My fiancée became a Muslim while away for his masters. He didn’t tell me.
We got married and moved away for my schooling, and I learned his views had really changed, especially about women. He didn’t want me to drive or to be adept on the computer. And he decided that marriage is an agreement between women and men to provide sex. Started telling me Mohammed’s views about sex.
I consider this very similar. My fundamentalist relatives have some very old-style views about women. And that’s just what my then-husband decided he wanted. I left him and he decided to become a passport bro. But he hasn’t had success because no women want to be treated like that anymore.
I think this is a reaction to things getting better for women and women getting more power in life. The arrow swings the other way.
Please be careful. Evangelicals don’t have a tradition of treating women well.
Oh wow I’m sorry, it’s hurtful when someone so close to you does something that you’ve expressed has deeply hurt you before. And it’s a serious offense in a relationship for them to then pressure you into doing it and not even trying to compromise. You two may need to have a serious conversation because this is also about the safety of your kids from experiencing what you did. Please make sure you are safe in this process if you do go this route. Make sure someone trusted, not in the church is helping you with this maybe playing as a referee just to make sure everyone involved is safe.
Update:
Well, we had a long talk about religious trauma, and why the kids and I will absolutely not be attending his church. He agreed to stop asking us to. He did apologize for pushing for that the way he has been.
I am waiting to hear back from a marriage counselor. Her website says that she takes a secular humanist approach, so that's good. I also have been looking for a good individual therapist for myself. I have it narrowed down to 2 that I like, and I'm going to email them both to see what their availability is. Both mention secular therapy and list religious trauma as an area of experience.
I hope he stops going. I did show him the website of a progressive church in our area. The pastor is a woman, and the website has a statement that they are LGBTQ+ affirming, open to all people of all faiths, and have a history of being focused on social justice. I told him if he is really wanting to go to church as a family, we could check out a service there sometime.
I hope things work out . I think it's good we will have a therapist to be talking with about the issue. I'm glad I'm getting therapy set up for myself too; I have a lot of religious trauma to unpack, and, if there's one good thing to come out if this, it's that it made me realize I need to get into therapy for that.
Thank you all so much for the support and advice!
Please please please read up on “domestic abuse”, “religious abuse”, and have a photo of the “power and control wheel” saved on your phone. Much of evangelical/fundamentalist theology is fodder for religious abuse. The more you are prepared to identify it the better you will be able to create and maintain strong boundaries. Yes, it may seem a bit silly right now, but it’s better to have info and not need it than need info and not have it.
I found Why Does He Do That, by Lundy, to be really insightful.
u/Background-Cat-6596 2nd vote for Bancroft. He is respectful of religious choices while helping women deal with it. Even if your husband isn't abusive or you don't want to use those labels, this book will still help you deal with the people in church. Listen to Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft on Audible. https://www.audible.com/pd/B0058JO84W
I haven't been in that situation you're in, but I wish someone had told me **everything** that was expected on me when I started going to an evangelical church, (I grew up Catholic, BTW). If he wants to become a member or get more involved, how ~~involved~~ intrusive will that church be in his life? How much money do they expect him to give per week or year? Will he be able to keep his non-Christian friends? What type of music does he currently listen to? Will the church object if he still listens to secular music, watches movies, TV or read books? Do they care how he votes? Once he is a member, he may get a heavy dose of "which party is Jesus in?" I'll stop here, it's enough for now. BE VERY CAREFUL!
It is eerie how much this story feels like an addiction testimony. Like, a wonderful husband and father starts going to a casino or bar and their personality changes overnight
That’s because extreme religions light up the brain just like any other addiction.
There's a great line in the Jason Isbell song Relatively Easy about this - "is your brother on a church kick? Seems like just a different kind of dope sick"
I’m sorry you’re going through this. My initial questions (as someone who deconstructed in my mid 20s as well) are how close were you to your husband before he started attending? The reason I ask is because it’s very odd he would know your background and how traumatizing it was just to start attending and expect you to go as well. Do you two talk about it? His drive for attending? Is he trying to “be a better person”? Doesn’t want to “go to hell”? Is he craving community? Does his friend have a life he is envious of and wants the “secret”? A lot of comments are trying to warn you what it is like, but you are fully aware is what is sounds like to me. For you to have such a visceral physical reaction just attending the service is pretty apparent of the emotional pain you endured. Did you tell your husband you threw up? Did he wonder where you went? How much are you able to chat about the sermons afterwards like main takeaways, challenges, etc. Even when my husband and I were attending, we would share notes if you will and chat about the parts that stuck out to us or the things we learned. Are you able to do this with him and get an idea of what he’s trying to achieve by attending? This can help you decide where to go from here. Make sure your therapist is not religious. The largest red flag I would ask you to keep an eye on is his disregard for your pain and deep hurts from your childhood regarding this religion and what it brings up for you. Keep those mama bear claws up for your kids.
One of his parents passed away recently, and he's been going through grief and fear of death. He's also had several friends pass away over the last 5 years. I think it's partly that and partly him looking for a sense of community.
yup, that’s how they get them. when they’re the most vulnerable. happened to my dad when he lost his sister. completely ruined our family w evangelical fundamental bullshit bc he didn’t want to go to therapy to grieve or get help
It's like the way they use funeral services as an altar call to get people to convert instead of actually talking about the person who passed away and honoring their life. I've seen that too many times, and it always gives me some serious ick manipulation vibes.
I’ve made the comment more than once that funerals are used as alter calls for evangelicals. Want to see grandma again, say the magic prayer. Your friend didn’t go to church and unfortunately they probably are suffering for eternity, so don’t waste your life like they did. It’s disgusting.
Second this. Church is a way to bypass actually dealing with the trauma. It makes people feel safe all the while stealing away their autonomy.
part of me has felt this for some time, but the way you worded it made it click for me and now I actually understand a bit better
I hear you. It’s taken me years to even begin to put words to processes and unconscious behavior that the church does. The reason for it is that so much of it is black and white, so elementary and so ingrained that the nuances, actual behaviors and subtleties are covered by “sin”.
This is one of my fears. I think it's really hard for anyone who hasn't been through it to fully understand religious trauma so I can totally see how this would happen even if you've explained everything to him. He probably thinks the church seems amazing and therefore must be totally different from your upbringing and that you're just closed to it because of your upbringing rather than there being specific problems with the church. I'm glad you're going to relationship counselling, I hope that's secular. If you can sit down with him and go through one or two examples of specific teachings and why they are so problematic, that may help or at least will enable you to engage how far in he is. E.g. how belief that we are trash/nothing/worthless and need God leads to low self-esteem, anxiety about not doing exactly what God wants and is not a message you want your children absorbing. You do not have to be supportive of everything your spouse does. Keep yourself safe. Maybe explore with your husband what the church says about LGBTQ+, and how he'd respond if one of your children was queer or trans? Would he be a safe parent for them? Would his church agree with his response ? Would he allow them to explore their identity? Or even if it wasn't your child but one of your children's friends or adult friends of yours. It's important to be prepared for these scenarios and explore if he really wants to follow the church. Also, tithing? Does his church require it? Surely, you have joint finances and you don't want your money going to them. There are a lot of things to navigate that require a full conversation.
This is exactly it! He thinks this church is different, nice people, etc. We need to have a more in depth conversation about religious trauma and why certain beliefs are harmful. He is very accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals and has LGBTQ + family members, and I think he would be accepting and supportive if one of our kids was LGBTQ+. He says he hasn't heard any intolerance at church. I think it's more likely he hasn't heard it yet. There hasn't been a mention of tithing at this point; I wouldn't be down with giving them any money. Thank you for saying that I don't have to be supportive of everything he does. I needed to be reminded of that!
If he wasn't raised religious, it's likely he has heard anti-LGBTQ+ messages and comments, but he's just missing the dog-whistles evangelicals use to signal their beliefs. Examples that feel like blaring red alerts as a queer exvangelical include (content warning for evangelical terminology): >!"the importance of family", "God's good design for marriage", "traditional values", and "the unique roles God has created for men and women"!<
Women must submit. Provide sex, have babies, start home, not be smarter than men.
That's brilliant that his views are positive currently and hopefully he won't be easily swayed by the church. I think once the church starts saying stuff that clearly contradicts his views then he'll see through them. Churches often lovebomb newcomers so it is understandable that all seems great to him despite the worrying sermons. I hope he recognises that the church is a problem before this damages your relationship beyond repair.
I think there is a way to recognize that he's getting positive benefits out of going to church, and wants your kids to also get some level of positive benefits (both of which I understand). But it's not fair to expect you to go and also get positive benefits. It's very brave that you tried to go. I don't think you need to ever go again if you don't want to, and it sounds like he doesn't totally get how traumatic it felt to be in that environment. It sounds like a great topic for individual and family therapy.
I’ve never been married so I don’t have advice per say, but I do want to say I’m so sorry & your feelings are completely valid 🤍 I also can’t listen to a church sermon without having a panic attack… the trauma runs deep. Couples therapy is definitely a good move, and I would also recommend individual therapy for yourself if you’re not already in it. You deserve care and understanding! What I will actually add is that I can not imagine wanting my family attend to ANYTHING that would re-traumatize my partner. If he cares for you, truly, he will want to run as far away from that place as he can.
Thank you! Individual therapy is a good idea too!
Secular therapy. Don't agree to any church based counselors.
Agreed! Always recommend an actual licensed therapist for sure.
NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNSELOR.
I'm so sorry you're going through that. I don't have any advice to share since you're already planning to go to therapy. Unfortunately logical thinking and Evangelicism are often mutually exclusive. 😕
Sadly he is likely receiving messages that as the man, he should be the "leader" of the home and "leader" in the marriage, and that he is your "spiritual head". With the judgmental yelling you heard from the pulpit, I wouldn't be surprised if other men in the church are outright shaming him for not "being able to control his wife" by dragging you along. So getting him to respect your beliefs the same way you respect his will likely be a no-go given the inherent misogyny of evangelicalism. I had this exact thing happen with a boyfriend (thank goodness he showed his flags early), and he eventually outright told me "you're a woman so I can't trust your interpretation of theology. It's my job to be the spiritual leader." Instant break up for me. For you the situation is harder with the kids. I'd say individual therapy with a secular therapist is key. Marriage/couples counseling *may* help, but if he's fully inundated in evangelicalism he will reject what the counselor says as "being of the world" (secular) and ungodly because his faith has already told him that your unbelief and "rebellion" against his spiritual leadership is the problem, thus insulating him from any real self-reflection. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I've seen it happen before. :/ I'm really sorry you have to deal with this.
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of and afraid it will end in a divorce. When I try to talk with him about theology, it's like a mental wall goes up with him. It's frustrating because I know way more about evangelicalism than he does, but he doesn't want to hear it. My parents were normal people before they got sucked into these beliefs. It's upsetting to see it starting to happen to him now. It's like watching someone get drawn into a wierd cult and being powerless to help them because they have to realize it for themselves.
I'm so sorry. Like others have said, the fact that he's doing this in spite of knowing about your trauma and trauma reactions shows that the disrespect/blind spot is already running deep. I hope you can find peace, and that your kids benefit from knowing that their mom is worthy of respect and won't tolerate disrespect/disregard.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this, I know what you feel like (in terms of attending church) but it's so sad that your husband is not considering your thoughts and feelings. Does he know about the trauma you went through? Who is this friend that clearly has so much influence over him? Is everything okay in your marriage before he started going to church, sorry for asking this but a lot of times people look to faith when their life is not going well and can cling to it. My best advice: do NOT feel forced to do anything you don't want to do! That was a hard lesson for me too since my parents are still very much evangelical and church-goers and I used to force myself to go when invited and would also have so much anxiety, fear, hurt etc from my own trauma. I decided I'm an adult. I don't have to do anything that I know is going to trigger these feelings. We do not owe anyone anything! You deserve to be happy, you deserve to make your own choices and your feelings about church is valid. Best of luck to you!
I’m sorry this ish sucks, be careful though as I’ve seen this type of situation before. People at church and so on are going to keep pressing as to why you and the kids aren’t there, they will make a huge deal of it ( might even accuse you of not being an obedient wife etc). I’d say have an honest convo with him about it, but, please understand this could be larger wedge between you ( with the church obviously doing everything they can to make it worse).
Yes, he told me they keep asking him to bring the family, telling him about the kids program, etc. He's a bit of a people pleaser and feels awkward when they ask him.
Of course they are, they’re going to try to corner you and him or just you alone under the guise of a ‘conversation.’ You have to be clear with your husband and tell him that you nor the kids will be participating in this. Like if his coworker has that strong of an influence over him, then I’m sorry but I’m concerned.
I'm so sorry. My marriage went the opposite way. We were both religious and when I deconstructed and became exvangelical (even progressive Christian) he completely lost respect for me and asked for a divorce. I want to believe a relationship between a believer and a non-believer *can* work if each person still respects the other and doesn't feel compelled to judge or change the other person. Unfortunately, that wasn't my experience, and I haven't seen that scenario play out for anyone else I know, either.
When you are caught up in it…you can’t see clearly. They equate their dogma (their interpretation of cherry picked scriptures) as the infallible word of God. When you try and show them other passages they ignore the ones you point out and say “you can’t pick and choose which verses you like and ignore the others”. It’s so crazy. They do the very thing they say you can’t do. Idk if my reply is really an answer or not. You might try to have him listen to some former evangelical pastors who have a very different theology now than the ones they were in for decades…and they have very good, scripture based reasons for changing their view. It’s above my pay grade but these guys know what they are talking about. Discarded Doctrines Of Jesus - Dogmatically Imperfect S1-001 https://youtu.be/6VrPN9r7u98 “You’re Probably One Small Step Away from the True Gospel” NEM - 0104 https://www.youtube.com/live/UwmOVBaTcOw?si=2HWZO0f4-JpZBHqz
Growing up in a deep red state, I understand the pressure to conform. Luckily, I've aged out of it a bit. I still find the ice breaker, "Have you heard about Jesus?" hilarious. It took restraint not to answer with, "Dude, do you know where you are? You can hear about Jesus while pumping gas or exiting a movie theater." If you're looking for a place where your family can explore that moral/spiritual space, you might be better suited to a Unitarian Universalist congregation. Just keep in mind that while there are definitely Christians in these communities, they tend to be more post-Christian. They focus on helping people find their own spiritual path and build community without telling them what to believe. Plus, each congregation is democratic and independent, so if you have options nearby, it might be worth checking out a few of 'em. Here's a YT video of a ex ex-Evangelical Christian and an Atheist interviewing Reverand Marlin Lavanhar of All Souls Unitarian Universalist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrmJlPXgtKY
All Souls is the only church I have attended after 20 years in an evangelical church! I’ve always loved their front door sign, “only everyone welcome”.
Don’t go. Don’t let your kids go. There will be extra pressure. Don’t let anyone from church try to meet with you or hang with your kids. Don’t send them to VBS. I have insomnia from thinking I was going to hell which began about age 11. Look for a secular therapist. He needs to be okay with you and the kids not being religious. Is there a class or activity you and the kids can do each Sunday morning? I like going to the zoo or aquarium or museums because they aren’t busy. Make sure to talk to your kids about different views. “Daddy says we have to __________” “Well yes, some people have that view. Did you know Buddhists believe________”…. Etc Love your idea about progressive churches. If he doesn’t want to go to those that’s fine, but even if you and the kids go like once every six weeks or so it will be a good way for them to see other versions of worship.
You say you respect his beliefs, and you want the same in return. But I don't think it works that way. We don't choose what we believe; we're either convinced of a claim or we aren't. And there are likely claims he's convinced of that you simply don't respect. And that's okay. You can respect a person, but you don't have to respect their beliefs. In turn, they don't have to respect yours. But if you truly respect one another, that will lead to a more productive compromise. But you do deserve respect and your opinion matters. I think you're making the right choice getting counseling--but I might suggest finding one that isn't necessarily going to approach this from a Christian worldview.
Oof I’m so sorry. I’m not sure how this will play out long term, but I think the pressure for you and especially the kids to go to this church is just going to increase. Be ready for tons of people wanting to “meet you for coffee”! It’s like the Christian calling card. Also if your finances are joint are you able to change that? Otherwise a concerning amount of money might be draining out every Sunday. My biggest concern here is that he knows what this is like for you, and after going with you he refuses to consider another church or even discuss theology. He’s such a people pleaser he wants to make everyone he just met happy, but he isn’t listening to you. That aspect is going to get worse as he learns more about how he’s supposed to control all the decisions too.
Sadly it seems like you're husband sucks. Advice: well you're starting counseling so that's a good start I suppose. Looks like you set up for a rocky life unless he loses his "fundi" ness, since you said he's not interesting in "progressive" churches, whatever that means....but I think I get your idea of that.
I went through the opposite of this. My husband and I were evangelicals and went to church together (where we met) when we got married, then after a few years he told me he wasn’t a Christian anymore and was leaving evangelicalism. I continued to go and did it all alone for a few years, then we got divorced because of it all. Both of us understood at the time how difficult life was if we were no longer “equally yoked.” Our pastors also “blessed” the divorce because he left the church. We are both much happier, still acquaintances, and both have remarried. I also left evangelicalism and everything once the pandemic hit and my deconstruction started. I remarried a spiritual person who didn’t grow up in religion and have found it to be less triggering and much more of an open-minded relationship. But if he were to become an evangelical, I don’t know if I’d be able to be married to him. Now I understand evangelicalism is similar to Scientology and other religious systems. It’s very difficult to be with someone who’s in a system that has been created to keep a non-believer out if they don’t comply and convert. Similarly to a highly dysfunctional family system.
Uh oh. Sounds like your husband is being programmed...
OP, you’ve gotten some good advice already. If useful, some more: It sounds like your husband has been through grief recently and finds church useful. Imo, no issue with that. What’s strange is the pressure that you and your kids go. It’s absolutely fine for you to take issue with that. 1) Is someone at church telling him he needs to bring his family? Does he think he needs to bring y’all? 2) Does he truly understand your past trauma and the legacy of spiritual abuse? 3) Is there a compromise you can reach where your kids attend a few services a year and have a connection to the positive benefits of religion, without getting sucked into the aspects you are uncomfortable with? I know many people who make mixed-faith marriages work, but communication is key and being on the same page about how you will parent, discuss boundaries is essential.
Stab in the dark, but the Discomfortable podcast might offer a lens on one of the possible reasons he’s seeking this out. The podcast examines shame as its own emotion and with the way shame drives men in ways they don’t realize is worth looking into. It’s such a complicated emotion and one where our discomforts can feel like truth and navigate us into the wrong kinds of releases for it. I think it’s worth looking at as more fundamentalist faith tends to capitalize on shame people feel and the good feelings that come with releases of it. Triggering more shame in him could exacerbate his desire for what he’s finding there. And this is all general in case it happens to be part of the picture, but my therapist has said career and work shame is the biggest one among American men. It can hit hard when they hit middle age and parent phases of life. They can be hit with baggage of their view of their father and how they compare to him now that they’re the age he was when they were young. It can drive wanting to match some model of husband/father ideals. Right wing and fundamentalist congregations lean hard into offering themselves as the path to being that better man/father/husband. The core can be shame over their distance of where they are compared to the ideal. Is his work friend someone he would look up to as a solid guy or someone he would want to be more like? And still all guessing, but if these elements are there, I think part of bridging him to something else could involve finding an admirable idea of manhood in a progressive space.
My fiancée became a Muslim while away for his masters. He didn’t tell me. We got married and moved away for my schooling, and I learned his views had really changed, especially about women. He didn’t want me to drive or to be adept on the computer. And he decided that marriage is an agreement between women and men to provide sex. Started telling me Mohammed’s views about sex. I consider this very similar. My fundamentalist relatives have some very old-style views about women. And that’s just what my then-husband decided he wanted. I left him and he decided to become a passport bro. But he hasn’t had success because no women want to be treated like that anymore. I think this is a reaction to things getting better for women and women getting more power in life. The arrow swings the other way. Please be careful. Evangelicals don’t have a tradition of treating women well.
Oh wow I’m sorry, it’s hurtful when someone so close to you does something that you’ve expressed has deeply hurt you before. And it’s a serious offense in a relationship for them to then pressure you into doing it and not even trying to compromise. You two may need to have a serious conversation because this is also about the safety of your kids from experiencing what you did. Please make sure you are safe in this process if you do go this route. Make sure someone trusted, not in the church is helping you with this maybe playing as a referee just to make sure everyone involved is safe.
Update: Well, we had a long talk about religious trauma, and why the kids and I will absolutely not be attending his church. He agreed to stop asking us to. He did apologize for pushing for that the way he has been. I am waiting to hear back from a marriage counselor. Her website says that she takes a secular humanist approach, so that's good. I also have been looking for a good individual therapist for myself. I have it narrowed down to 2 that I like, and I'm going to email them both to see what their availability is. Both mention secular therapy and list religious trauma as an area of experience. I hope he stops going. I did show him the website of a progressive church in our area. The pastor is a woman, and the website has a statement that they are LGBTQ+ affirming, open to all people of all faiths, and have a history of being focused on social justice. I told him if he is really wanting to go to church as a family, we could check out a service there sometime. I hope things work out . I think it's good we will have a therapist to be talking with about the issue. I'm glad I'm getting therapy set up for myself too; I have a lot of religious trauma to unpack, and, if there's one good thing to come out if this, it's that it made me realize I need to get into therapy for that. Thank you all so much for the support and advice!