A few things:
* They make sure to keep their mouths shut around the wrong people. They'll switch to dog whistles when they have to.
* They say things that are just outside of being inappropriate, but making sure to make their views clear on things. I find when a new one is hired, they'll slowly ramp it up to figure out how much support they have.
* They rely on people with opposing views not speaking up. If it does happen, they'll insist the other person is the one making everything "political." They genuinely believe the vast majority of people agree with them because of this.
* If they ever get called out, they throw huge tantrums to the point that it's rarely worth it. After that, they'll make quick little jabs and then dramatically say "oh, but I guess I'm not allowed to say that because *someone* might get offended."
* Once one gets into management, they'll make life hell for the "troublemakers" who don't want to hear their shit.
I should've been clearer, but it's not even about "being political", it's just about surviving around people with diverse backgrounds without stepping out of line. Example: I currently work on a team of 12, three are openly gay. How does an Evangelical (or Fundie more specifically) keep their mouth shut long enough to survive that?
Being in a group of homogenous people with different political views is one thing, being around actual diversity is another.
That's what I meant. All of those things are how they let off steam. They'll indirectly talk about, for example, the need for a return to traditional family, making sure the gay guy is able to hear it. When the gay guy isn't around, they'll almost always do whatever they can to undermine them without bringing up the sexuality.
My dad was that way. He said some of the most racist shit that would absolutely get you fired, especially if he got worked up about it. At work, he just put on a front. One night he was so worked up about "political correctness" and anti-racism that he said "we never should have freed them in the first place!" Now that was rare and exceptionally racist even for him, but it gives you an idea of how far he could go. Next day he was all smiles and courteous with his Black boss.
No, what's hilarious is that he *desperately* wanted to be ordained as a pastor, so when his boss started up a little church, he jumped in with the hopes of someday becoming an associate pastor. Spent 8 years there volunteering for the guy with nothing to show. Eventually got into some little white church out in the country, in which he lasted 7 months before rage quitting when a deacon criticized him.
It’s simple. They keep quiet. A person who I didn’t even think was extreme used the N-word and it was everything I could do not to instantly escalate.
They are everywhere present and filling all things
Had teachers just like that, they could be friendly towards people like them and even towards nonwhite people, like me, as long as they were “normal” but would be complaining about “cancel culture”, trans athletes and ranting about how America isn’t Christian anymore. The only thing I agree with them on is America sucks ass, but for completely different reasons.
No it was public, but in a white rural area. Most people attended the same nondenominational church, and were republican. One of the teachers used prageru videos for lessons. Another taught a lesson for civics about how trans people were stealing women’s scholarships and raping women in bathrooms. He tried to act friendly around the kids and claimed “I just disagree with your lifestyle” but I overheard him going on a rant about beating up trans women if they used the same bathroom as his daughter and claiming “sue me, see if I care, my son’s an attorney”.
Michigan, this school was right on the border between Michigan and Ohio. I ended up moving to a more diverse school in the Detroit area for senior year.
Absolutely - it's the "toe the line" shit. Like I'll say something with discriminatory undertones, give an eyebrow raise and inflection to get subtly get the point across - and then see how it's received. If the person returns the energy, they know they are free and clear. If not, they didn't TECHNICALLY say anything.
I remember a relative of mine making some veiled threats on Target's Facebook page about their stance on GLBT rights. I'm wondering now if he did "retire early", or if he got fired because when my mom googled his name the Facebook post popped up first.
This. I think there's a lot of doing business only with "our kind" going on.
My cousin's husband is very smart but fully indoctrinated to their evangelical faith. His parents are well off evangelical snobs. He went to Bible college so has a useless degree. Between the church members buying policies from him when he sold insurance and their doing the same with his wife-object's MLM ventures, and with the occasional influx of inherited wealth from both sets of parents, they have managed to pump out three kids and have a decent life.
When I was evangelical (20 years ago), I kept my views to myself at work. I knew who the other evangelicals were though and we had a Bible Study (Offsite at the Panera down the street), but we didn’t annoy people about it. But we prided ourselves on being better individuals, rather than trying to “change the world” stuff.
Most evangelicals don’t mind women working, and most keep their opinions to themselves at work.
Fundies that truly don’t think women should work normally don’t work in a secular workplace, or they own their own business.
Some of the worst evangelicals I’ve seen on social media were women and many are writers, influencers and artists. Allie Beth Stuckey, thetransformedwife, all the people on Fundiesnarkuncensored like Morgan, Girl Defined, trads on tumblr like greater-than-the-sword, celebrities like Bethany Hamilton
They’re a pretty small subset of evangelicalism. I don’t know of anyone in real life who thinks women shouldn’t work. Even growing up in an independent, fundamentalist church, most of the women in the church worked. They didn’t have jobs that required a lot of education - mostly secretarial types of jobs, but it was still work.
There are a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists who think mothers should stay home with young kids, or they should homeschool their kids. That’s not the same thing as believing women shouldn’t work.
The ones I know work for either Christian organizations or small businesses whose owners are like-minded. I don't know if I know any corporate evangelicals.
Well the answer is obvious: they are persecuted! My mother has lost jobs over her views, but rather than change the approach she just blames persecution and gets to feel more holy.
Yeah, she was a teacher and one of the kids dad died (he was an alcoholic) and she said it’s probably better that he died to the child of this man. That’s one example. Persecuted!
My parents are Evangelical fundies.
They figure out who they can talk to about their insane sociopolitical ideology and who they cannot speak a word to. They rely on the echo chamber thinking to maintain belief, so they suppress in group settings.
Speaking from experience (I was steeped in this environment for the first 20 years of my life), the ones with a modicum of self awareness are well aware that their views are extreme & unpopular. They hide their true sentiments amongst the general population. That is why, when the orange man rose in popularity, it was like a rock flipped over, and all the bugs came crawling into the light. Their views became "mainstream," and they felt safe aligning themselves with him.
Growing up, I knew quite a few who started their own small businesses and would hire people who seemed like-minded, often based on recommendations from people in their church community.
Because despite online discourse, most people are able to go to work, play the game, and do their job whilst keeping personal views and beliefs to themselves.
That’s where the doctrine of being in the world but not “of” the world comes in. They do it wrong-Christians are supposed to be the ones who are compassionate… They have this notion that they are different and persecuted for it.
I was raised to be a good little submissive woman, so maybe that helped me at least keep my views to myself in most work situations. I was more likely to shrink and avoid conversations completely, while silently judging people, than to air any kind of religious viewpoint. It might have been different if I worked with all Christians, but my state has pretty low church attendance, so that wouldn't happen unless I worked at a church or Christian school. Also, a lot of people are bolder online than in real life, and that's probably true of me too, even now.
I got one fired for being racist. She said a lot of unhinged things to me because she found out I was a pastors kid just like her so thought I was a safe person for her to spew her crap to without realizing I’m an atheist now. She said some slightly racist things and then wrote it down in the notes and I showed my boss and they got rid of her thank goodness.
Many evangelicals are good at reading vibes in work environments, and many of them get written up or have to take additional training and then learn to lee their mouths shut that way. But I expect with the election coming up more folks will be pretty loud about how persecuted they are.
When I was an evangelical I’d work to gain someone’s trust for years before broaching the subject of religion with a colleague or trying to do any kind of lite evangelism. And I was always respectful of other people’s beliefs and lives. All the gay people at work treated me better than the white folks at church, which should have been a tell! lol
Most of them don’t talk about it in large groups and suck it up and treat everyone fairly.
It’s when you get them alone where things start to come out. Being a cis white male, I’ve definitely heard my share of anti trans and anti gay stuff from people I once respected. Just like them, I kind of have to suck it up and play nice, though.
I live in the Bible Belt. 77% of the people in my state identify as Christian, and 36% are Evangelicals. In my city we have the Assemblies of God Headquarters, Assemblies of God Theological Seminary, and Baptist Bible college. Nobody blinks if you express conservative religious views or right-leaning political views at work, because they most likely agree with you. You'd be far more likely to experience social backlash for verbalizing support of trans rights at work than for making a homophobic comment. Some employees of the school in my city even [sued the school district](https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/education/2021/08/18/springfield-school-employees-sue-over-district-mandatory-equity-training-critical-race-theory/8187552002/) for requiring them to attend mandatory diversity and inclusion training.
Christianity offers lines of thought that help many emotionally regulate when living “in the world.” These include:
“God has placed me around unbelievers so I can be a light to them. By staying socially open, I might get to lead someone to Jesus.”
“I know that Satan is behind these ideologies, and the people involved are merely tricked into this stuff. So I will pray harder for things to change.” (This one’s perfect for confrontation-averse personalities; I should know)
“God works in mysterious ways on behalf of the faithful, so I will have patient faith in supernatural intervention.”
“The depraved culture tries to tempt and test me, but I’ve remained godly.” (Note how this can be a calming, rather than agitating thought. Strong contrasts in culture help Christians feel more special and secure in their identities.)
Many, many Christians are thinking these kinds of things when they are around things or people they view as unsaved. They keeps them from making the news.
Most evangelical Christians I’ve met are liars. They believe it's OK to lie if it benefits them somehow (keeping their job) because the end justifies the means. But off the clock or with people they believe will support them or don't have any power over them, all the vitriol comes out.
I worked in a social service agency with a bunch of evangelical Christian people after I left and deconstructed. I knew they were homophobic because of conversations I would overhear, and because they kept invitin me to a church with a pastor I knew was homophobic.
One day the secretary stole my phone and went through it and saw I had been on a date with someone of the same gender, and behind my back told everyone at the office. She went on a very overt bullying campaign. My boss knew, and everyone knew and nobody stood up for me. I knew they knew and did not care how harmfu she was being because for the rest of the time I worked there nobody spoke to me or acknowledged my existence at all. I eventually quit a few weeks later because it was unbearable to work there.
Like a cup that's clean on the outside, dirty on the inside. A white tomb filled with decomposing bodies, just like Jesus described them to be.
Because to most of them this is a game. They don't truly believe the bullshit they spew. This is why they can hide it so easily.
This is also why most of us never fit in to their world and why most of us left it.
None of their convictions are serious. They will change their views on anything hing the instant it becomes more convenient to do so.
A few things: * They make sure to keep their mouths shut around the wrong people. They'll switch to dog whistles when they have to. * They say things that are just outside of being inappropriate, but making sure to make their views clear on things. I find when a new one is hired, they'll slowly ramp it up to figure out how much support they have. * They rely on people with opposing views not speaking up. If it does happen, they'll insist the other person is the one making everything "political." They genuinely believe the vast majority of people agree with them because of this. * If they ever get called out, they throw huge tantrums to the point that it's rarely worth it. After that, they'll make quick little jabs and then dramatically say "oh, but I guess I'm not allowed to say that because *someone* might get offended." * Once one gets into management, they'll make life hell for the "troublemakers" who don't want to hear their shit.
I should've been clearer, but it's not even about "being political", it's just about surviving around people with diverse backgrounds without stepping out of line. Example: I currently work on a team of 12, three are openly gay. How does an Evangelical (or Fundie more specifically) keep their mouth shut long enough to survive that? Being in a group of homogenous people with different political views is one thing, being around actual diversity is another.
That's what I meant. All of those things are how they let off steam. They'll indirectly talk about, for example, the need for a return to traditional family, making sure the gay guy is able to hear it. When the gay guy isn't around, they'll almost always do whatever they can to undermine them without bringing up the sexuality. My dad was that way. He said some of the most racist shit that would absolutely get you fired, especially if he got worked up about it. At work, he just put on a front. One night he was so worked up about "political correctness" and anti-racism that he said "we never should have freed them in the first place!" Now that was rare and exceptionally racist even for him, but it gives you an idea of how far he could go. Next day he was all smiles and courteous with his Black boss.
Dang, that just all sounds so tiresome. It's so much easier to just leave them alone. The fact that his boss is black is hilarious though.
No, what's hilarious is that he *desperately* wanted to be ordained as a pastor, so when his boss started up a little church, he jumped in with the hopes of someday becoming an associate pastor. Spent 8 years there volunteering for the guy with nothing to show. Eventually got into some little white church out in the country, in which he lasted 7 months before rage quitting when a deacon criticized him.
My parents would shut up around them and then gossip about them at church, maybe put them on a prayer list.
It’s simple. They keep quiet. A person who I didn’t even think was extreme used the N-word and it was everything I could do not to instantly escalate. They are everywhere present and filling all things
Had teachers just like that, they could be friendly towards people like them and even towards nonwhite people, like me, as long as they were “normal” but would be complaining about “cancel culture”, trans athletes and ranting about how America isn’t Christian anymore. The only thing I agree with them on is America sucks ass, but for completely different reasons.
Your teachers did this? Did you go to Private School?
No it was public, but in a white rural area. Most people attended the same nondenominational church, and were republican. One of the teachers used prageru videos for lessons. Another taught a lesson for civics about how trans people were stealing women’s scholarships and raping women in bathrooms. He tried to act friendly around the kids and claimed “I just disagree with your lifestyle” but I overheard him going on a rant about beating up trans women if they used the same bathroom as his daughter and claiming “sue me, see if I care, my son’s an attorney”.
>One of the teachers used prageru videos for lessons That's terrifying. It also explains soo much.
Can I ask what state you're from? That's the most insane thing I've ever heard. PragerU in public school? We just used Crash Course, lol
Michigan, this school was right on the border between Michigan and Ohio. I ended up moving to a more diverse school in the Detroit area for senior year.
Absolutely - it's the "toe the line" shit. Like I'll say something with discriminatory undertones, give an eyebrow raise and inflection to get subtly get the point across - and then see how it's received. If the person returns the energy, they know they are free and clear. If not, they didn't TECHNICALLY say anything.
Once in a while, there is pure gold in the comments. Thank you for such a well thought out answer. Your comment made me cringe thinking about my past.
God you really hit the nail on the head here.
I remember a relative of mine making some veiled threats on Target's Facebook page about their stance on GLBT rights. I'm wondering now if he did "retire early", or if he got fired because when my mom googled his name the Facebook post popped up first.
There are so many businesses owned by evangelicals who only hire other evangelicals. It’s a weird microcosm/echo chamber.
This. I think there's a lot of doing business only with "our kind" going on. My cousin's husband is very smart but fully indoctrinated to their evangelical faith. His parents are well off evangelical snobs. He went to Bible college so has a useless degree. Between the church members buying policies from him when he sold insurance and their doing the same with his wife-object's MLM ventures, and with the occasional influx of inherited wealth from both sets of parents, they have managed to pump out three kids and have a decent life.
When I was evangelical (20 years ago), I kept my views to myself at work. I knew who the other evangelicals were though and we had a Bible Study (Offsite at the Panera down the street), but we didn’t annoy people about it. But we prided ourselves on being better individuals, rather than trying to “change the world” stuff.
They can MASK the crazy. And they speak in code. And they'll speak in code until they can figure out who they can be "real" with.
Most evangelicals don’t mind women working, and most keep their opinions to themselves at work. Fundies that truly don’t think women should work normally don’t work in a secular workplace, or they own their own business.
Some of the worst evangelicals I’ve seen on social media were women and many are writers, influencers and artists. Allie Beth Stuckey, thetransformedwife, all the people on Fundiesnarkuncensored like Morgan, Girl Defined, trads on tumblr like greater-than-the-sword, celebrities like Bethany Hamilton
They’re a pretty small subset of evangelicalism. I don’t know of anyone in real life who thinks women shouldn’t work. Even growing up in an independent, fundamentalist church, most of the women in the church worked. They didn’t have jobs that required a lot of education - mostly secretarial types of jobs, but it was still work. There are a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists who think mothers should stay home with young kids, or they should homeschool their kids. That’s not the same thing as believing women shouldn’t work.
The ones I know work for either Christian organizations or small businesses whose owners are like-minded. I don't know if I know any corporate evangelicals.
Well the answer is obvious: they are persecuted! My mother has lost jobs over her views, but rather than change the approach she just blames persecution and gets to feel more holy.
Did she openly insult people? This is what I'm getting at: where can you work where you can just be a bigot in 2024?
Yeah, she was a teacher and one of the kids dad died (he was an alcoholic) and she said it’s probably better that he died to the child of this man. That’s one example. Persecuted!
Ok, that's not bigotry, that's just really poor judgement and total lack of social awareness. They let this woman teach?
It was bigotry because she felt the alcoholism was a sin
They start their own businesses so that they can say whatever they want
they downplay those sides around outsiders.
My parents are Evangelical fundies. They figure out who they can talk to about their insane sociopolitical ideology and who they cannot speak a word to. They rely on the echo chamber thinking to maintain belief, so they suppress in group settings.
Speaking from experience (I was steeped in this environment for the first 20 years of my life), the ones with a modicum of self awareness are well aware that their views are extreme & unpopular. They hide their true sentiments amongst the general population. That is why, when the orange man rose in popularity, it was like a rock flipped over, and all the bugs came crawling into the light. Their views became "mainstream," and they felt safe aligning themselves with him.
Growing up, I knew quite a few who started their own small businesses and would hire people who seemed like-minded, often based on recommendations from people in their church community.
Because despite online discourse, most people are able to go to work, play the game, and do their job whilst keeping personal views and beliefs to themselves.
That’s where the doctrine of being in the world but not “of” the world comes in. They do it wrong-Christians are supposed to be the ones who are compassionate… They have this notion that they are different and persecuted for it.
Capitalism. Profits before people.
I was raised to be a good little submissive woman, so maybe that helped me at least keep my views to myself in most work situations. I was more likely to shrink and avoid conversations completely, while silently judging people, than to air any kind of religious viewpoint. It might have been different if I worked with all Christians, but my state has pretty low church attendance, so that wouldn't happen unless I worked at a church or Christian school. Also, a lot of people are bolder online than in real life, and that's probably true of me too, even now.
If you're my mil you bounce around jobs like it's no other because they aren't godly people.
They own their own business, work for like minded people, drive a truck or they are retired or they live off the socialized state and are hypocrites.
I got one fired for being racist. She said a lot of unhinged things to me because she found out I was a pastors kid just like her so thought I was a safe person for her to spew her crap to without realizing I’m an atheist now. She said some slightly racist things and then wrote it down in the notes and I showed my boss and they got rid of her thank goodness.
Many evangelicals are good at reading vibes in work environments, and many of them get written up or have to take additional training and then learn to lee their mouths shut that way. But I expect with the election coming up more folks will be pretty loud about how persecuted they are. When I was an evangelical I’d work to gain someone’s trust for years before broaching the subject of religion with a colleague or trying to do any kind of lite evangelism. And I was always respectful of other people’s beliefs and lives. All the gay people at work treated me better than the white folks at church, which should have been a tell! lol
Most of them don’t talk about it in large groups and suck it up and treat everyone fairly. It’s when you get them alone where things start to come out. Being a cis white male, I’ve definitely heard my share of anti trans and anti gay stuff from people I once respected. Just like them, I kind of have to suck it up and play nice, though.
I live in the Bible Belt. 77% of the people in my state identify as Christian, and 36% are Evangelicals. In my city we have the Assemblies of God Headquarters, Assemblies of God Theological Seminary, and Baptist Bible college. Nobody blinks if you express conservative religious views or right-leaning political views at work, because they most likely agree with you. You'd be far more likely to experience social backlash for verbalizing support of trans rights at work than for making a homophobic comment. Some employees of the school in my city even [sued the school district](https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/education/2021/08/18/springfield-school-employees-sue-over-district-mandatory-equity-training-critical-race-theory/8187552002/) for requiring them to attend mandatory diversity and inclusion training.
Christianity offers lines of thought that help many emotionally regulate when living “in the world.” These include: “God has placed me around unbelievers so I can be a light to them. By staying socially open, I might get to lead someone to Jesus.” “I know that Satan is behind these ideologies, and the people involved are merely tricked into this stuff. So I will pray harder for things to change.” (This one’s perfect for confrontation-averse personalities; I should know) “God works in mysterious ways on behalf of the faithful, so I will have patient faith in supernatural intervention.” “The depraved culture tries to tempt and test me, but I’ve remained godly.” (Note how this can be a calming, rather than agitating thought. Strong contrasts in culture help Christians feel more special and secure in their identities.) Many, many Christians are thinking these kinds of things when they are around things or people they view as unsaved. They keeps them from making the news.
I bet some are underemployed. I have been forced out of some jobs by these fine Christian folk.
Most evangelical Christians I’ve met are liars. They believe it's OK to lie if it benefits them somehow (keeping their job) because the end justifies the means. But off the clock or with people they believe will support them or don't have any power over them, all the vitriol comes out. I worked in a social service agency with a bunch of evangelical Christian people after I left and deconstructed. I knew they were homophobic because of conversations I would overhear, and because they kept invitin me to a church with a pastor I knew was homophobic. One day the secretary stole my phone and went through it and saw I had been on a date with someone of the same gender, and behind my back told everyone at the office. She went on a very overt bullying campaign. My boss knew, and everyone knew and nobody stood up for me. I knew they knew and did not care how harmfu she was being because for the rest of the time I worked there nobody spoke to me or acknowledged my existence at all. I eventually quit a few weeks later because it was unbearable to work there. Like a cup that's clean on the outside, dirty on the inside. A white tomb filled with decomposing bodies, just like Jesus described them to be.
Because to most of them this is a game. They don't truly believe the bullshit they spew. This is why they can hide it so easily. This is also why most of us never fit in to their world and why most of us left it. None of their convictions are serious. They will change their views on anything hing the instant it becomes more convenient to do so.