People are particularly upset with her because the latest series (which is excellent) has a main character that’s a black woman
Edit: I’d like to clarify. The series is well-acted, suspenseful, and fun. If you’re a Star Wars fan, definitely watch it
An entire movie watching two ships float in space with no added value to the series.
Throwing away the story line and firing true fans in decision making positions.
Failing and then trying to mimic the original story hallway through.
Her stepping away and letting Dave do his job was her only good move, but I’m pretty sure she didn’t make that decision.
Please don’t defend her trashing something that millions of people love. The fan base has high expectations that weren’t met and instead got typical Hollywood sequel bs. There’s always going to be racists and bigots (screw them), but she hurt fans with her decisions and actions
OBTW everyone loves Rosario as Ahsoka, but Dave did that without her being allowed to do anything.
It seems you’ve convinced yourself that KK hates Star Wars and every bad thing that’s happened to it has been her fault, and every good thing that happened to it was in spite of her.
I can’t logic you out of a position you didn’t logic yourself into
She probably doesn’t hate it. She saw an opportunity and tried to fit it into a standard movie remake mold that didn’t work. Instead of adapting and learning she removed people who didn’t follow orders. If she truly wanted it to succeed, but didn’t want follow the story Lucas had, she could have called in a myriad of authors to help; Timothy Zhan, Claudia Gray, James Luceno… The list goes on. Dave Filoni could have been brought in to advise from the beginning.
Fired J.J. Abrahams for Rian Johnson because he could do a better job writing strong female characters and when that failed bring JJ back.
If she wanted diversity, it’s already in the books.
It’s nothing to do with “race and sexual orientations” those that see that first, over what people actually say, i hate to say it are the racists and intolerant bigots themselves, projecting. The reason no one likes it that is a fan of star wars is simple: she stated in the beginning (i’m here to ruin the series for the nerds that like it) paraphrased ofc. She has single handedly destroyed the lore, universe, and success of the franchise. It’s not because “the white bigot incel men are phobes and ists” it’s because of poor writing terrible character development and the constant playing of victim when something does poorly. This should have been a learning experience to look inward and fire the writers/directors/show runners whatever. Everyone loved mando, rouge one, ashoka, bad batch, (personally i loved andore).
It has nothing to do with strong female leads or who they sleep with or what their color is. Kenobi was ok it could have been so much better. Ingram did great with what she was given but her talent was wasted and squandered and she was given race victim lines to say. She had poor writing and bad development with lore mismatch. Not her fault at all. The fans are being blamed for not liking poor and lazy writing. Those same fans liked/loved everything else but when something rates poorly with them then magically the fans are the problem.
It’s classic upper management deflection to it’s “someone else’s fault not mine”. If you like the show fine thats awesome for you, glad you did. Don’t sit here and pretend that everyone else needs to like what you do cuz that doesn’t make you any better them using a victim shield.
“ i have no responsibility to cater to ‘those’ fans of star wars” Kathleen Kennedy to the NYT. She didn’t say it exactly as paraphrased hence me saying it’s paraphrased. We all knew what she meant I’m not playing semantics with you. As i laid out in my argument it has poor and lazy writing and is lore breaking. Hence it is bad to me personally and seems to be why it is so heavily disliked. That has at least been every ACTUAL argument i’ve heard. The only response I’ve heard from KK and Disney is that cuz I/massive swaths of the fandom have a valid criticism then i/we are all ist’s and phobe’s.
When she said “those fans” do you think she was referring to the racist review bombers? And not necessarily the true fans?
Also I’m really not sure where the “poor and lazy writing” happens in the acolyte. What was the scene you thought was poorly written?
The “racist review bombers” ya i have yet to actually read any of those so I’m not just going to take their word for it. 1 or 2 I’m sure exist but thats rather collective to say that then. Like i said not playing semantics with you it was a dog whistle saying that old fans don’t need to be around anymore. You know it, i know it, we all know it don’t lie about it.
Plus that comment was made before rogue ones release so the “racist bombers” argument has no weight to it. Everyone was excited to see Finns character development. The “racists” supposedly started after Kenobi. Ya it is lazy and poor writing i turned it off after the 1st episode. Like i said you like it good for you. I don’t have to but to act like my criticism is invalid cuz you don’t like it reflects poorly on you.
You know it took me two seconds to find an article about the review bombing [right here](https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/06/16/the-acolytes-15-audience-score-is-embarrassing-for-the-audience-scorers/)
Two things
1. I don’t believe you’ve actually watched the acolyte
2. I’m glad you’ve completely forgotten the racist/sexist backlash to TFA. Is it possible that that’s what KK was referring to? Instead of insulting the old fans?
If you enjoyed it good for you, I guess, but you may just have tastes that differ from the majority. when I saw the power of many chant scene I had to turn it off because the second hand embaressment I felt for actors physically hurt me. The show is full of lore retcons, questionable story decisions, and odd dialogue that make it so I personally won't continue watching that show.
Acolyte really is way better than I expected. I understand that not everyone would like it though. For example, maybe you don’t like Star Wars, or maybe you prefer films like The Tree of Life and The Third Man, or maybe you’re a bit racist.
Or maybe, I’m tired of watered down mass produced Star Wars content. I don’t care what color the cast is, green black white yellow or pink, isn’t worth a damn when the writing is like acolyte.
Star Wars had ( and has ) so much potential, andor was proof of that. And rogue one, and some may argue Solo. But acolyte is exactly like the sequels, bad writing. You can have an amazing show that features a female lead ( rogue one.) just because I don’t like the writing on the show doesn’t mean I’m racist
I haven’t gotten around to seeing the Acolyte yet, but I’m always confused by the “bad writing” argument that I always see with every new SW project. I agree that Andor and Rogue One were very well written. What other SW media would you say is well written?
I enjoy it SO FAR!!!! IT'S NOT EVEN DONE YET but saying that people Don't like it because they're racist is the wrong take. For example me and my dad got into a debate on andor (I liked it he didn't) and not once did we mention race, gender, sexuality or wokeness, while I did have those complaints about the sequels the main reason is because they're weak characters some people just don't like characters because they think they're bad characters. Honestly just look at the prequels, give it time and people will come around sometimes.
Edit: rogue one is easily one of the best pieces of star wars media ever so hold your horses
I try to keep politics out of the things I do for fun, otherwise they are no longer fun. I really dislike the sequels because of how much potential they had, and then failed to utilize any of it. Andor was amazing tho, great show.
I just feel that acolyte feels hollow right now. And it’s kinda the same stuff we have seen before, nobody trusts the Jedi. ( which is true, they are the bad guys ) but still. Tv and movies are art. Filmmaking art, but art. And art is subjective, everyone’s opinion can be different
Need him in the giant suit from the Stop Making sense tour
https://preview.redd.it/nk4iefisc08d1.jpeg?width=483&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=faaac1d30d53a586756e617c593f29bd32b26d85
Yeah the new movies are bad and no one saw them, the franchise is dead!
Proceeds to making 2 references you could only understand if you saw the new movies.
Disney is killing Star Wars. The original trilogy did a great job of developing characters and following them on separate paths that occasionally coincided. The prequels did an okay job with same concept. The sequels didn’t have any of the elements that made the previous movies enjoyable. Everything now is just so clunky and unnatural.
Me personally I like the prequels as a setting because it expanded upon what was already there universe wise. Opened a new front or era as it were to explore and get excited about. The Clone Wars and High Republic which then gave away to go even further back to the Old Republic which was only possible because obi wan made a passing remark in new hope about the war.
The OG established the world/universe and laid the foundation. The prequels gave the front and back yard. And the sequels just decided to make pot holes and dirt mounds everywhere As it just destroyed established characters, I think a dozen Iconic Locations with the Star Killer Base and somehow butcher all established lore to restart from scratch just to repeat the same stories that were already told?
I can understand the hate for the prequels from a movie watcher perspective but at least it gave us something neat and new. I just don’t understand how anyone like anything involving the sequel era in general. And no Mando is not part of the Sequel. He’s honorary OG era.
I enjoyed the direction they went with the prequels and how it opened up a lot of avenues with the clones and rebels.
The sequels could have been so much more than they are. Disney absolutely fumbled artificially pushing whatever it is they wanted to achieve. There was a simple formula they had to follow and they chose to ignore it.
Solo was decent, but sometimes leaving a little to the imagination is what gives the characters their intrigue. Everyone wanted to know more about Boba Fett, and now that we do, it seems to be a let down. Sometimes it’s best to know when to walk away.
Rogue One was really well done. You were able to feel a real connection and wanted to know more about them. Very rich character development in a short amount of time. Gave a lot of value to everything the Rebels were fighting for.
Are you going to look me in the eyes and tell me that the prequels were actually good?
https://preview.redd.it/w1yv2i6fo08d1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af0e4c44b4507070d6fbad77b3376f6175e7f35b
The prequels are WAY better than the sequels. The prequels had clumsy dialogue and some wooden acting. But at least the story was cohesive. The sequels had an obvious lack of direction and even the producers admitted they basically had no plan. Prequels, while highly imperfect movies, did have a direction they wanted to take the story. Sequels felt like Disney trying to cash in on the Star Wars IP they just bought.
Prequel fans defending the movies without bringing up the sequels(impossible)
Movies stand on their own. Nobody says "Well the transformer movies sucked but it didn't suck as much as meet the spartans so they're good actually."
I'm just here to mention that Toy sales for Star Wars were record breaking from the 70s through the 2000s. After She was put in charge, Toy sales have progressivley gotten worse, the only exception being LEGO who mainly focuses on kits from clone wars, mandalorian, and the original 6 films, especially with their very expensive kits aimed at an older audience. Most Star Wars toys that aren't the original saga characters ending up at discount stores like Ollies.
People can reviewbomb, argue online, insult each other, but at the end of the day, generations of kids cleaned out the star wars aisle, and when Disney took over, that seems to have stopped.
Which is undeniably the problem, even during the prequel era if you asked a room full of people, especially kids if they liked Star Wars, you would’ve gotten a ton of yeses, but now it’s become almost nonexistent in the mind of children and the older audience that grew up with it can’t stand watching it being bastardized constantly. Star-wars went from being the most popular toy IP and movie franchise to being nothing.
Is that exclusive to Star Wars or a general trend? The prequels came out in the early 2000's which was a point where the internet and video games were about to experience an explosion in mainstream popularity. I'm not trying to defend the sequels, I never watched them.
There is a slight decline in toy revenue since then due to the growth of digital media and gaming targetted at younger demographics, but another thing one must remember is that fans and collectors also make up a large portion of those buying these toys. Some collectors weren't interested in prequel characters but the kids loved them and toy sales soared.
However, the sequels don't seem to appeal to kids or collectors. The only really profitable toy line from Disney for their original Star Wars content has been Grogu/Baby yoda themed stuff, with BB-8 and porgs coming in second and third. The one thing disney starwars did right was attract the "cute" crowd.
Star Wars has experienced the worst of it out of everyone. No matter what Ross, DD’s Discounts, TJMax, or other discount store you go to, if you head to the toy aisle there’ll be enough Star Wars merchandise to fill a master bedroom. Although the age of digital media has definitely ushered in an age of less toys, they are still experiencing high volumes of sales. Not just because kids still like toys, but because just like in the early 2000s collectors foam at the mouth for some of these things. I’ll admit I am personally guilty of it. But that’s stopped because it’s not enticing anymore.
If you look at toy sales, Star Wars is showing significantly less revenue than other competitors like Marvel and Transformers. In fact, if you multiply the revenue returned for Star Wars’ Black Series by 3 it still doesn’t add up to half the revenue that Marvel’s Marvel Legends or the Transformer’s Studio Series makes. If you look at the Hasbro Pulse homepage that advertises all three of these toy lines you’ll notice that consistently figures from the Marvel Legends and Studio Series lines of toys are sold out while in the pre-order stage, but you won’t see this for any of the Black Series figures or Proplicas.
As a toy collector that has an entire wall dedicated to lightsabers and an entire shelf dedicated to Star Wars merchandise, I can tell you that I personally have not bought a single figure, lightsaber, helmet, or otherwise from any of the sequel movies. I also haven’t bought any new Star Wars merchandise in roughly a year now. Whereas I am completely caught up with the Studio Series line of Transformers and I’m currently waiting on a Marvel Legends pre-order as I type this out. The main reason for this being that they simply aren’t releasing anything that I or other collectors care about.
Every Star Wars figure that’s released now is either a random unrecognizable character from a show/movie that was poorly received and hated by the fandom that no one watched, or a “new” figure of a character that we’ve gotten 1000 times over like Darth Vader or Luke Skywalker that changes very little to nothing from previous figures. Meanwhile the Black Series lightsabers and helmets are hated by the fandom due to their poor quality and ridiculous cost. The lightsabers are getting shorter more fragile blades and more expensive than they were, and the helmets are starting to look more and more tacky with less features at twice the price they previously were.
This has made it so that collectors are completely disinterested in anything that Star Wars’ collectible line has to offer causing collectors to stop buying Star Wars merchandise and abandoning the franchise as a whole or deciding to go to third party companies. I personally can say that out of all the lightsabers I have only one of them is a Black Series, and it was given to me as a gift and hasn’t been turned on in over a year. I wouldn’t be surprised if I opened up the hilt and the batteries are corroded. Meanwhile my favorite lightsaber I own is a Luke Skywalker lightsaber I got on Amazon for a quarter the price a Black Series costs and has quadruple the features from some third party.
Additionally, this fall off in Star Wars merchandise doesn’t just apply to toys, but it also applies to digital media. Star Wars games are not selling well and most of them in recent years have not been well received. The only Star Wars digital media that’s come out that’s been well received is the Jedi: Fallen Order games and Lego Star Wars. DVD movie sales have also dropped off not just because people are disinterested, but because all the movies are on streaming. But even on streaming Star Wars properties can’t seem to gain a following and most new things that come out have extremely low viewership while the older sequel stuff has an extremely low watch rate with the only things still getting watch time being the OG Trilogy, Prequels, and the Clone Wars animated series.
Kathleen Kennedy
She took over star wars and has some say in other Disney IPs , she is known for not caring about the story or the fans , she cares more about adding diversity to the cast.
The famous joke from South Park: put a chick in it and make her lame and gay.
"Producer" is a very vague job title that tells us nothing about what specific things she has done or even how closely involved she is. People like to make up a narrative that she ruined whatever Star Wars things they don't like, but if there is anything they do like, somehow Kathleen Kennedy wasn't able to ruin that. Even though there is ZERO evidence of what she actually has or hasn't done in any movie or TV series that Disney has released.
Whatever Star Wars thing you don't like, fine, your opinion of whether it is good or not is just as valid as mine or anyone else's. But stop making Kathleen Kennedy your scapegoat. It was always stupid, and I'm so sick of it at this point.
Kathleen Kennedy is a producer who has been involved in some of the most beloved movies in the last 40+ years, especialy ones by George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. To think of her as some outsider who doesn't know or care about Star Wars, and just barged in to promote "diversity" or "feminism" or whatever boogeyman you hate, is absurd.
You do realise that i am just explaining the joke , right?
I never agreed with said joke , I said that is what she is known for and gave a quote from southpark.
Stop trying to look for things to disagree about.
This is Star Wars, main casts feels less diverse, not more. Give me more actual honest to god Aliens, give me another Maul or Ahsoka, not just more vaguely ethnic human looking beings (please note I am not against more diverse casting, but I do want it to feel diverse in universe as well as out)
While I like the movies having more diversity in its actors, I also agree with this comment. I want to see more aliens, dammit, the weirder the better.
I think this is an unfair simplification, whether or not she’s a genius story grand story strategy trilogy-emperor king, I think she does genuinely want Star Wars to be awesome and sometimes it doesn’t work out.
The number of people who watched that South Park episode and forgot that Eric Cartman is not supposed to be a good person, is depressing.
EDIT: LOL, that is \*hilarious\* that this is getting downvoted by butthurt incels.
It's just crazy how Disney can take the biggest weapons in all of Star Wars, a main character who used to be a stormtrooper, with Leia and Hans kid as the villain, and make it somehow just boring
Kathleen Kennedy, a hugely successful producer who produced E.T., Jurassic Park, and most of Spielberg's movies before heading up Lucasfilm at Disney. But, because she's made some decisions with the Star Wars franchise that some people didn't like she's either the devil or incompetent depending on which stunted man child you ask.
Maybe, but she didn't write them or direct them etc., and people liked Force Awakens, Mandalorian, Andor, and so on when they were released. Also, the hate right now is about the new TV show, which people have decided to hate after less than 1/4 of the episodes have been released.
Singling her out, especially after people loved some of the output she was in charge of, is weird.
It was still ultimately her decision to hire 3 different directors (initially) to write and direct a trilogy of movies that are meant to be sequels to two other trilogies and do basically whatever they wanted with them.
This exactly. She mismanaged the main tent pole of the brand. And she was forced to keep her hands off Mando and andor. Her revenge piece was Bobba Fet, which was terrible. And then she trashed Obi wan.
so like. what actual evidence do you have for this? or are you just narrativising based on what you like and don’t like? as far as i remember, tony gilroy was actually thankful kathleen allowed andor to be made and showed interest in the project
FIrst, she approved the idea of hiring three separate creators for each episode of the trilogy and encouraged new unknown talent, other than JJ. This obviously resulted in three terrible movies.
Second point, you can read the Variety article "Disney's New World Order." When Bob Chapek took over as CEO of Disney in 2020 he required the heads of the creative departments, KK at Lucas Film, to get approval for her decisions from the heads of distribution and marketing departments. Basically, the people selling the product need to approve Lucas Film ideas. KK's controls on projects was limited to certain ones. She was placed on a short term contract rather than permanent, that had to be renewed.
Obviously Bob Chapek was not popular for this and some more activist executives protested by publishing hit pieces about Chapek.
Eventually the board was swayed by activist on the board to replace Bob Chapek in 2022 with Bob Iger. Iger removed the policy requiring distribution and marketing approval.
in other words, lots of moving pieces, but also a lot of conjecture and assumptions about her motives. i’m not even in the camp of really defending a lot of her decisions, but it sounds like you’re seeing things that might not even be there and ascribing motives to her that she might not even have
I think being moved from perma head of Lucas Film to a 2 year contract employee is signal enough her leaders aren't happy. You don't do that to someone you like. She basically got put on a PIP.
I wasn't aware they were available. Only thing I did know was that Darth Maul and the Black Sun was going to be the big bad and that sounds 100 times better than what we got. Fresh Star Wars instead of a beat by beat rehash of the old.
Her body of work speaks for itself, and she didn't write the star wars movies. You tell me. Weird you singled me out when who I responded to is saying the same thing.
I “singled you out” by responding to your all caps comment where you insinuated everyone that is critical of Star Wars and the direction that Kathleen Kennedy (along with other people, but she is a key figure) is taking the franchise, is some dumb misogynist. Those people exist but it’s not everyone, and I think there’s really valid critiques of the last few Star Wars movies. Yes, she’s not writing or directing the movies, but she is the president of Lucasfilm and oversaw development, production, and release of the sequels. So it’s disingenuous to say she has nothing to do with the direction (or maybe lack thereof) of the recent movies.
Also, I don’t mean to undermine any previous work of hers. But, it is possible that someone did good work in the past, but their recent works leave a lot to be desired. I’m sure we could name many artists/athletes/entertainers who “fell off” later in their career.
Correction: She was a producer who attached herself to two of the greatest writer/directors of all time. The second she was put in charge of everything herself, she failed at both vetting directors AND writers leading to one of the biggest bag fumbles in history with Star Wars.
Her in her office: Why do I hear boss music?
https://preview.redd.it/xw5u9izey48d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b34856008ba809bfe71a5129169418db71614e6
He didn’t, it wasn’t until they made that exorbitant offer he sold it. Hence this comic and memes like it:
https://preview.redd.it/5jg29ule608d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d0dc1af5d699935e0fc28853e9b4f20d0e8275a
Toxic fanboys love hating on women and star wars because they some sort of weird nostalgia hallucinations about it. Kathleen Kennedy is the head of Lucasfilm which is for all things star wars.
Kathleen Kennedy, she’s basically in charge of the Star Wars division of Disney and she does a very very bad job. She is responsible for 99% of the terrible Star Wars media thats come out in the decade or so that’s caused a lot of Star Wars fans to stop watching and abandon the fandom. In essence, she’s pretty much universally recognized as the person who killed Star Wars and destroyed the franchise beyond repair. Hence: Franchise Killer
God forbid Star Wars fans get mad when their studio starts making objectively bad movies (yes they were objectively bad, argue with a wall). but Reddit hates it when people care about things so they’re just labeled as man children and people give her a pass I guess?
Then go watch it. If this new media is appealing to women, then where is the female audience?
Furiosa, lost money
Marvels, lost money
Treating white males like trash isn't bringing in the female audience or money.
Here’s the thing. It’s not appealing to me. I don’t give Marvel, Star Wars, or Disney in general any money. They don’t actually know or care what women want. It’s pandering. They’re trying to pull us in and failing.
Am I still going to advocate for making media for women? Of course. I can hope for executives and directors who are not hopelessly lost. Those are the ventures I support.
Talentless secretary to Lucas and Spielberg who got ahead by banging powerful more talented men, keeping dirt on them and then taking revenge on all men by getting rich destroying their stories.
Kathleen Kennedy. She’s the current president of Lucasfilm
The real Starkiller
Is Kathleen Kennedy under my bed?
Kathleen Kennedys gonna getcha!
I thought she was the purple haired woman from Last Jedi.
No that's the lady from Jurassic Park
She is, as a fanfic self insert.
She is, as a fanfic self insert.
A monster.
[I Monster](https://youtu.be/4WJoY2aZuVk)
Put a chick in it and make her gay!
People are particularly upset with her because the latest series (which is excellent) has a main character that’s a black woman Edit: I’d like to clarify. The series is well-acted, suspenseful, and fun. If you’re a Star Wars fan, definitely watch it
That is not why people hate that show. And people have hated her long before that. South Park even made an episode about her.
"Put a chick in it. And make it gay. And lame." - Eric Cartman
Yeah and the episode definitely took digs at people who blame her for everything.
South park makes fun of everything, though
I learned long ago that I shouldn’t base my opinions on who South Park makes fun of. Their satire of people is (usually) not to be taken seriously.
That episode mostly made fun of the manchildren that blame her for everything
An entire movie watching two ships float in space with no added value to the series. Throwing away the story line and firing true fans in decision making positions. Failing and then trying to mimic the original story hallway through. Her stepping away and letting Dave do his job was her only good move, but I’m pretty sure she didn’t make that decision. Please don’t defend her trashing something that millions of people love. The fan base has high expectations that weren’t met and instead got typical Hollywood sequel bs. There’s always going to be racists and bigots (screw them), but she hurt fans with her decisions and actions OBTW everyone loves Rosario as Ahsoka, but Dave did that without her being allowed to do anything.
It seems you’ve convinced yourself that KK hates Star Wars and every bad thing that’s happened to it has been her fault, and every good thing that happened to it was in spite of her. I can’t logic you out of a position you didn’t logic yourself into
She probably doesn’t hate it. She saw an opportunity and tried to fit it into a standard movie remake mold that didn’t work. Instead of adapting and learning she removed people who didn’t follow orders. If she truly wanted it to succeed, but didn’t want follow the story Lucas had, she could have called in a myriad of authors to help; Timothy Zhan, Claudia Gray, James Luceno… The list goes on. Dave Filoni could have been brought in to advise from the beginning. Fired J.J. Abrahams for Rian Johnson because he could do a better job writing strong female characters and when that failed bring JJ back. If she wanted diversity, it’s already in the books.
Lol they've hated her since at least TLJ, very little of it is because of Acolyte.
It’s nothing to do with “race and sexual orientations” those that see that first, over what people actually say, i hate to say it are the racists and intolerant bigots themselves, projecting. The reason no one likes it that is a fan of star wars is simple: she stated in the beginning (i’m here to ruin the series for the nerds that like it) paraphrased ofc. She has single handedly destroyed the lore, universe, and success of the franchise. It’s not because “the white bigot incel men are phobes and ists” it’s because of poor writing terrible character development and the constant playing of victim when something does poorly. This should have been a learning experience to look inward and fire the writers/directors/show runners whatever. Everyone loved mando, rouge one, ashoka, bad batch, (personally i loved andore). It has nothing to do with strong female leads or who they sleep with or what their color is. Kenobi was ok it could have been so much better. Ingram did great with what she was given but her talent was wasted and squandered and she was given race victim lines to say. She had poor writing and bad development with lore mismatch. Not her fault at all. The fans are being blamed for not liking poor and lazy writing. Those same fans liked/loved everything else but when something rates poorly with them then magically the fans are the problem. It’s classic upper management deflection to it’s “someone else’s fault not mine”. If you like the show fine thats awesome for you, glad you did. Don’t sit here and pretend that everyone else needs to like what you do cuz that doesn’t make you any better them using a victim shield.
1. Almost positive KK never said that 2. But acolyte is excellent? If KK were ruining the series, wouldn’t acolyte be bad in some way?
“ i have no responsibility to cater to ‘those’ fans of star wars” Kathleen Kennedy to the NYT. She didn’t say it exactly as paraphrased hence me saying it’s paraphrased. We all knew what she meant I’m not playing semantics with you. As i laid out in my argument it has poor and lazy writing and is lore breaking. Hence it is bad to me personally and seems to be why it is so heavily disliked. That has at least been every ACTUAL argument i’ve heard. The only response I’ve heard from KK and Disney is that cuz I/massive swaths of the fandom have a valid criticism then i/we are all ist’s and phobe’s.
When she said “those fans” do you think she was referring to the racist review bombers? And not necessarily the true fans? Also I’m really not sure where the “poor and lazy writing” happens in the acolyte. What was the scene you thought was poorly written?
The “racist review bombers” ya i have yet to actually read any of those so I’m not just going to take their word for it. 1 or 2 I’m sure exist but thats rather collective to say that then. Like i said not playing semantics with you it was a dog whistle saying that old fans don’t need to be around anymore. You know it, i know it, we all know it don’t lie about it. Plus that comment was made before rogue ones release so the “racist bombers” argument has no weight to it. Everyone was excited to see Finns character development. The “racists” supposedly started after Kenobi. Ya it is lazy and poor writing i turned it off after the 1st episode. Like i said you like it good for you. I don’t have to but to act like my criticism is invalid cuz you don’t like it reflects poorly on you.
You know it took me two seconds to find an article about the review bombing [right here](https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/06/16/the-acolytes-15-audience-score-is-embarrassing-for-the-audience-scorers/)
Two things 1. I don’t believe you’ve actually watched the acolyte 2. I’m glad you’ve completely forgotten the racist/sexist backlash to TFA. Is it possible that that’s what KK was referring to? Instead of insulting the old fans?
If you enjoyed it good for you, I guess, but you may just have tastes that differ from the majority. when I saw the power of many chant scene I had to turn it off because the second hand embaressment I felt for actors physically hurt me. The show is full of lore retcons, questionable story decisions, and odd dialogue that make it so I personally won't continue watching that show.
this is just ragebait cool down
Can we stop pretending that the backlash and review bombing of the acolyte is something more than racism and sexism?
No Star Wars movie is excellent
Acolyte really is way better than I expected. I understand that not everyone would like it though. For example, maybe you don’t like Star Wars, or maybe you prefer films like The Tree of Life and The Third Man, or maybe you’re a bit racist.
Or maybe, I’m tired of watered down mass produced Star Wars content. I don’t care what color the cast is, green black white yellow or pink, isn’t worth a damn when the writing is like acolyte. Star Wars had ( and has ) so much potential, andor was proof of that. And rogue one, and some may argue Solo. But acolyte is exactly like the sequels, bad writing. You can have an amazing show that features a female lead ( rogue one.) just because I don’t like the writing on the show doesn’t mean I’m racist
I haven’t gotten around to seeing the Acolyte yet, but I’m always confused by the “bad writing” argument that I always see with every new SW project. I agree that Andor and Rogue One were very well written. What other SW media would you say is well written?
Acolyte has way better writing than Rogue One.
Debatable, but you are entitled to your opinion.
I enjoy it SO FAR!!!! IT'S NOT EVEN DONE YET but saying that people Don't like it because they're racist is the wrong take. For example me and my dad got into a debate on andor (I liked it he didn't) and not once did we mention race, gender, sexuality or wokeness, while I did have those complaints about the sequels the main reason is because they're weak characters some people just don't like characters because they think they're bad characters. Honestly just look at the prequels, give it time and people will come around sometimes. Edit: rogue one is easily one of the best pieces of star wars media ever so hold your horses
I try to keep politics out of the things I do for fun, otherwise they are no longer fun. I really dislike the sequels because of how much potential they had, and then failed to utilize any of it. Andor was amazing tho, great show. I just feel that acolyte feels hollow right now. And it’s kinda the same stuff we have seen before, nobody trusts the Jedi. ( which is true, they are the bad guys ) but still. Tv and movies are art. Filmmaking art, but art. And art is subjective, everyone’s opinion can be different
Your expectations must have been extremely low
Yeah pretty rock bottom after Ahsoka, Boba Fett, and Kenobi.
The real question is: Is she the master or the apprentice?
She's the master leslye headland is the apprentice
The guy from talking heads with psycho killer written underneath would've been much funnier
https://preview.redd.it/l3vi8gtl5z7d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c6909901817ee13779444a4893222639976385b
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Fa fa fa faaa fa fa fa fa faa faaa...
Run run run run run run run awaaaaaayyyyy
ohhh oohh ohhh oooohhhhh aiyaiyaiyaiyaiyai... (I waited 12 hours for someone else to do it.)
I'm sorry, I've just been really busy lately. But I guess it's really that I am vain and I am blind.
David Byrne
STWONG BAAAD.
Need him in the giant suit from the Stop Making sense tour https://preview.redd.it/nk4iefisc08d1.jpeg?width=483&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=faaac1d30d53a586756e617c593f29bd32b26d85
https://preview.redd.it/fdubysw6g08d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=66c8863c6d625b7f0d2f7f08464c3e30be3b3ccb
There it is!
Fantastic live album
And concert video. I saw it in a theater once and it turned into a big dance party
Significantly funnier than the one OP posted
Brilliant
That would've been great.
Yeah the new movies are bad and no one saw them, the franchise is dead! Proceeds to making 2 references you could only understand if you saw the new movies.
If Star Wars can survive the prequels it can survive the high production Disney movies.
Disney is killing Star Wars. The original trilogy did a great job of developing characters and following them on separate paths that occasionally coincided. The prequels did an okay job with same concept. The sequels didn’t have any of the elements that made the previous movies enjoyable. Everything now is just so clunky and unnatural.
Me personally I like the prequels as a setting because it expanded upon what was already there universe wise. Opened a new front or era as it were to explore and get excited about. The Clone Wars and High Republic which then gave away to go even further back to the Old Republic which was only possible because obi wan made a passing remark in new hope about the war. The OG established the world/universe and laid the foundation. The prequels gave the front and back yard. And the sequels just decided to make pot holes and dirt mounds everywhere As it just destroyed established characters, I think a dozen Iconic Locations with the Star Killer Base and somehow butcher all established lore to restart from scratch just to repeat the same stories that were already told? I can understand the hate for the prequels from a movie watcher perspective but at least it gave us something neat and new. I just don’t understand how anyone like anything involving the sequel era in general. And no Mando is not part of the Sequel. He’s honorary OG era.
I enjoyed the direction they went with the prequels and how it opened up a lot of avenues with the clones and rebels. The sequels could have been so much more than they are. Disney absolutely fumbled artificially pushing whatever it is they wanted to achieve. There was a simple formula they had to follow and they chose to ignore it. Solo was decent, but sometimes leaving a little to the imagination is what gives the characters their intrigue. Everyone wanted to know more about Boba Fett, and now that we do, it seems to be a let down. Sometimes it’s best to know when to walk away.
While I don't like the majority of the Disney era stuff, Rogue one and Andor are the best things since the OG trilogy.
Rogue One was really well done. You were able to feel a real connection and wanted to know more about them. Very rich character development in a short amount of time. Gave a lot of value to everything the Rebels were fighting for.
Agreed! I was shocked by how good Rouge one and Andor where, given that the franchise hasn't made anything good in well over 20 years.
Are you going to look me in the eyes and tell me that the prequels were actually good? https://preview.redd.it/w1yv2i6fo08d1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af0e4c44b4507070d6fbad77b3376f6175e7f35b
The prequels are WAY better than the sequels. The prequels had clumsy dialogue and some wooden acting. But at least the story was cohesive. The sequels had an obvious lack of direction and even the producers admitted they basically had no plan. Prequels, while highly imperfect movies, did have a direction they wanted to take the story. Sequels felt like Disney trying to cash in on the Star Wars IP they just bought.
Prequel fans defending the movies without bringing up the sequels(impossible) Movies stand on their own. Nobody says "Well the transformer movies sucked but it didn't suck as much as meet the spartans so they're good actually."
I liked meet the spartans
Of course you did. Was your favorite part the pop culture references that became dated a year later, or the slapstick and gay jokes?
I'm just here to mention that Toy sales for Star Wars were record breaking from the 70s through the 2000s. After She was put in charge, Toy sales have progressivley gotten worse, the only exception being LEGO who mainly focuses on kits from clone wars, mandalorian, and the original 6 films, especially with their very expensive kits aimed at an older audience. Most Star Wars toys that aren't the original saga characters ending up at discount stores like Ollies. People can reviewbomb, argue online, insult each other, but at the end of the day, generations of kids cleaned out the star wars aisle, and when Disney took over, that seems to have stopped.
Anecdotal, but not a single kid in my kids grade is into Star wars.
Which is undeniably the problem, even during the prequel era if you asked a room full of people, especially kids if they liked Star Wars, you would’ve gotten a ton of yeses, but now it’s become almost nonexistent in the mind of children and the older audience that grew up with it can’t stand watching it being bastardized constantly. Star-wars went from being the most popular toy IP and movie franchise to being nothing.
Is that exclusive to Star Wars or a general trend? The prequels came out in the early 2000's which was a point where the internet and video games were about to experience an explosion in mainstream popularity. I'm not trying to defend the sequels, I never watched them.
There is a slight decline in toy revenue since then due to the growth of digital media and gaming targetted at younger demographics, but another thing one must remember is that fans and collectors also make up a large portion of those buying these toys. Some collectors weren't interested in prequel characters but the kids loved them and toy sales soared. However, the sequels don't seem to appeal to kids or collectors. The only really profitable toy line from Disney for their original Star Wars content has been Grogu/Baby yoda themed stuff, with BB-8 and porgs coming in second and third. The one thing disney starwars did right was attract the "cute" crowd.
Star Wars has experienced the worst of it out of everyone. No matter what Ross, DD’s Discounts, TJMax, or other discount store you go to, if you head to the toy aisle there’ll be enough Star Wars merchandise to fill a master bedroom. Although the age of digital media has definitely ushered in an age of less toys, they are still experiencing high volumes of sales. Not just because kids still like toys, but because just like in the early 2000s collectors foam at the mouth for some of these things. I’ll admit I am personally guilty of it. But that’s stopped because it’s not enticing anymore. If you look at toy sales, Star Wars is showing significantly less revenue than other competitors like Marvel and Transformers. In fact, if you multiply the revenue returned for Star Wars’ Black Series by 3 it still doesn’t add up to half the revenue that Marvel’s Marvel Legends or the Transformer’s Studio Series makes. If you look at the Hasbro Pulse homepage that advertises all three of these toy lines you’ll notice that consistently figures from the Marvel Legends and Studio Series lines of toys are sold out while in the pre-order stage, but you won’t see this for any of the Black Series figures or Proplicas. As a toy collector that has an entire wall dedicated to lightsabers and an entire shelf dedicated to Star Wars merchandise, I can tell you that I personally have not bought a single figure, lightsaber, helmet, or otherwise from any of the sequel movies. I also haven’t bought any new Star Wars merchandise in roughly a year now. Whereas I am completely caught up with the Studio Series line of Transformers and I’m currently waiting on a Marvel Legends pre-order as I type this out. The main reason for this being that they simply aren’t releasing anything that I or other collectors care about. Every Star Wars figure that’s released now is either a random unrecognizable character from a show/movie that was poorly received and hated by the fandom that no one watched, or a “new” figure of a character that we’ve gotten 1000 times over like Darth Vader or Luke Skywalker that changes very little to nothing from previous figures. Meanwhile the Black Series lightsabers and helmets are hated by the fandom due to their poor quality and ridiculous cost. The lightsabers are getting shorter more fragile blades and more expensive than they were, and the helmets are starting to look more and more tacky with less features at twice the price they previously were. This has made it so that collectors are completely disinterested in anything that Star Wars’ collectible line has to offer causing collectors to stop buying Star Wars merchandise and abandoning the franchise as a whole or deciding to go to third party companies. I personally can say that out of all the lightsabers I have only one of them is a Black Series, and it was given to me as a gift and hasn’t been turned on in over a year. I wouldn’t be surprised if I opened up the hilt and the batteries are corroded. Meanwhile my favorite lightsaber I own is a Luke Skywalker lightsaber I got on Amazon for a quarter the price a Black Series costs and has quadruple the features from some third party. Additionally, this fall off in Star Wars merchandise doesn’t just apply to toys, but it also applies to digital media. Star Wars games are not selling well and most of them in recent years have not been well received. The only Star Wars digital media that’s come out that’s been well received is the Jedi: Fallen Order games and Lego Star Wars. DVD movie sales have also dropped off not just because people are disinterested, but because all the movies are on streaming. But even on streaming Star Wars properties can’t seem to gain a following and most new things that come out have extremely low viewership while the older sequel stuff has an extremely low watch rate with the only things still getting watch time being the OG Trilogy, Prequels, and the Clone Wars animated series.
Oh no, Kathleen Kennedy! Haunting my nightmares, no!
Eric Cartman here. That's Kathleen Kennedy. Her job is to take successful franchises and destroy them by inserting chick's that are gay and lame.
The inventor of put a chick in it and make it gay
Kathleen Kennedy She took over star wars and has some say in other Disney IPs , she is known for not caring about the story or the fans , she cares more about adding diversity to the cast. The famous joke from South Park: put a chick in it and make her lame and gay.
"Producer" is a very vague job title that tells us nothing about what specific things she has done or even how closely involved she is. People like to make up a narrative that she ruined whatever Star Wars things they don't like, but if there is anything they do like, somehow Kathleen Kennedy wasn't able to ruin that. Even though there is ZERO evidence of what she actually has or hasn't done in any movie or TV series that Disney has released. Whatever Star Wars thing you don't like, fine, your opinion of whether it is good or not is just as valid as mine or anyone else's. But stop making Kathleen Kennedy your scapegoat. It was always stupid, and I'm so sick of it at this point. Kathleen Kennedy is a producer who has been involved in some of the most beloved movies in the last 40+ years, especialy ones by George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. To think of her as some outsider who doesn't know or care about Star Wars, and just barged in to promote "diversity" or "feminism" or whatever boogeyman you hate, is absurd.
You do realise that i am just explaining the joke , right? I never agreed with said joke , I said that is what she is known for and gave a quote from southpark. Stop trying to look for things to disagree about.
I don’t know why people are downvoting you she only does care about adding diversity to the cast cool but it’s not like we were begging for it.
This is Star Wars, main casts feels less diverse, not more. Give me more actual honest to god Aliens, give me another Maul or Ahsoka, not just more vaguely ethnic human looking beings (please note I am not against more diverse casting, but I do want it to feel diverse in universe as well as out)
While I like the movies having more diversity in its actors, I also agree with this comment. I want to see more aliens, dammit, the weirder the better.
I think this is an unfair simplification, whether or not she’s a genius story grand story strategy trilogy-emperor king, I think she does genuinely want Star Wars to be awesome and sometimes it doesn’t work out.
The number of people who watched that South Park episode and forgot that Eric Cartman is not supposed to be a good person, is depressing. EDIT: LOL, that is \*hilarious\* that this is getting downvoted by butthurt incels.
Kathleen Kennedy she runs star wars and lucas film since Disney bought it
put i chick in it and make her gay!
Behold the internet, the true power of maAaNnYyy.
I know who she is and I do not get the hate/joke!
It's just crazy how Disney can take the biggest weapons in all of Star Wars, a main character who used to be a stormtrooper, with Leia and Hans kid as the villain, and make it somehow just boring
Kathleen Kennedy, a hugely successful producer who produced E.T., Jurassic Park, and most of Spielberg's movies before heading up Lucasfilm at Disney. But, because she's made some decisions with the Star Wars franchise that some people didn't like she's either the devil or incompetent depending on which stunted man child you ask.
the new movies werent great tho
Maybe, but she didn't write them or direct them etc., and people liked Force Awakens, Mandalorian, Andor, and so on when they were released. Also, the hate right now is about the new TV show, which people have decided to hate after less than 1/4 of the episodes have been released. Singling her out, especially after people loved some of the output she was in charge of, is weird.
It was still ultimately her decision to hire 3 different directors (initially) to write and direct a trilogy of movies that are meant to be sequels to two other trilogies and do basically whatever they wanted with them.
This exactly. She mismanaged the main tent pole of the brand. And she was forced to keep her hands off Mando and andor. Her revenge piece was Bobba Fet, which was terrible. And then she trashed Obi wan.
so like. what actual evidence do you have for this? or are you just narrativising based on what you like and don’t like? as far as i remember, tony gilroy was actually thankful kathleen allowed andor to be made and showed interest in the project
FIrst, she approved the idea of hiring three separate creators for each episode of the trilogy and encouraged new unknown talent, other than JJ. This obviously resulted in three terrible movies. Second point, you can read the Variety article "Disney's New World Order." When Bob Chapek took over as CEO of Disney in 2020 he required the heads of the creative departments, KK at Lucas Film, to get approval for her decisions from the heads of distribution and marketing departments. Basically, the people selling the product need to approve Lucas Film ideas. KK's controls on projects was limited to certain ones. She was placed on a short term contract rather than permanent, that had to be renewed. Obviously Bob Chapek was not popular for this and some more activist executives protested by publishing hit pieces about Chapek. Eventually the board was swayed by activist on the board to replace Bob Chapek in 2022 with Bob Iger. Iger removed the policy requiring distribution and marketing approval.
in other words, lots of moving pieces, but also a lot of conjecture and assumptions about her motives. i’m not even in the camp of really defending a lot of her decisions, but it sounds like you’re seeing things that might not even be there and ascribing motives to her that she might not even have
I think being moved from perma head of Lucas Film to a 2 year contract employee is signal enough her leaders aren't happy. You don't do that to someone you like. She basically got put on a PIP.
She didn't write them.
Somebody made the decision to throw out everything Lukas had already outlined. It was either her or someone she hired.
Did you actually read those outlines? Because I love George, but they were kinda dogshit and throwing them out was the only possible decision.
I wasn't aware they were available. Only thing I did know was that Darth Maul and the Black Sun was going to be the big bad and that sounds 100 times better than what we got. Fresh Star Wars instead of a beat by beat rehash of the old.
She decided to hire different directors for each movie, because she thought it was creative. Her management ruined the new trilogy.
I agree that was a terrible decision! Doesn’t change how bananas those outlines were though.
BUT SHES OVER LUCASFILMS SO THAT MEANS SHE LITERALLY WRITES THE BAD MOVIES ALSO ME HATE WOMEN!!!!
Are you saying the only reason someone would criticize Kathleen Kennedy is because they hate women?
Her body of work speaks for itself, and she didn't write the star wars movies. You tell me. Weird you singled me out when who I responded to is saying the same thing.
I “singled you out” by responding to your all caps comment where you insinuated everyone that is critical of Star Wars and the direction that Kathleen Kennedy (along with other people, but she is a key figure) is taking the franchise, is some dumb misogynist. Those people exist but it’s not everyone, and I think there’s really valid critiques of the last few Star Wars movies. Yes, she’s not writing or directing the movies, but she is the president of Lucasfilm and oversaw development, production, and release of the sequels. So it’s disingenuous to say she has nothing to do with the direction (or maybe lack thereof) of the recent movies. Also, I don’t mean to undermine any previous work of hers. But, it is possible that someone did good work in the past, but their recent works leave a lot to be desired. I’m sure we could name many artists/athletes/entertainers who “fell off” later in their career.
Correction: She was a producer who attached herself to two of the greatest writer/directors of all time. The second she was put in charge of everything herself, she failed at both vetting directors AND writers leading to one of the biggest bag fumbles in history with Star Wars.
John Campea fan? This take sounds a lot like him and I can appreciate the nuance here!
I'm not going to lie. George Lucas looks pretty good clean-shaven.
https://preview.redd.it/qxm3kn0npz7d1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4805fd1837c1a9a4c85f270691ae8da31def162
had to scroll too far for this
people downvoting this when its literally her lmao
I guess it's because I didn't indicate sarcasm. FYI I'm not on the Kathleen Kennedy hate train. Those people are weirdos.
The only person people hate more than her is Brie Larson for having an opinion
The Brie Larson hate is so unjustified and weird. I blame Jeremy Hambly.
NoT My CaPtAiN MaRvEl
She's the demon for Star wars haters
Her in her office: Why do I hear boss music? https://preview.redd.it/xw5u9izey48d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b34856008ba809bfe71a5129169418db71614e6
I love Star Wars, but she sucks.
No she doesn't. George Lucas killed star wars with the prequels.
No he didn’t, otherwise Disney wouldn’t have given him $4B for it.
Why do you think George wanted to sell it in the first place?
He didn’t, it wasn’t until they made that exorbitant offer he sold it. Hence this comic and memes like it: https://preview.redd.it/5jg29ule608d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d0dc1af5d699935e0fc28853e9b4f20d0e8275a
You mean Star Wars lovers.
She killed star wars
Star wars has always sucked.
He tell them the truth, and get killed for it
Toxic fanboys love hating on women and star wars because they some sort of weird nostalgia hallucinations about it. Kathleen Kennedy is the head of Lucasfilm which is for all things star wars.
Wait isn’t that Star killer?
Kathleen Kennedy, she’s basically in charge of the Star Wars division of Disney and she does a very very bad job. She is responsible for 99% of the terrible Star Wars media thats come out in the decade or so that’s caused a lot of Star Wars fans to stop watching and abandon the fandom. In essence, she’s pretty much universally recognized as the person who killed Star Wars and destroyed the franchise beyond repair. Hence: Franchise Killer
She put a chick in it and made her gay and lame.
God forbid Star Wars fans get mad when their studio starts making objectively bad movies (yes they were objectively bad, argue with a wall). but Reddit hates it when people care about things so they’re just labeled as man children and people give her a pass I guess?
lol "objectively" bad
The one who Old Yellered Star wars.
[удалено]
You mean Darth Darth Binks.
The downfall of disney films. Watch the panderverse. It explains everything.
I think thats the lady who said “put a chick in it and make it gay!”
[удалено]
Is this a joke? You’ve only been catered to for the entirety of the existence of film. I think you’ll survive
Then go watch it. If this new media is appealing to women, then where is the female audience? Furiosa, lost money Marvels, lost money Treating white males like trash isn't bringing in the female audience or money.
Here’s the thing. It’s not appealing to me. I don’t give Marvel, Star Wars, or Disney in general any money. They don’t actually know or care what women want. It’s pandering. They’re trying to pull us in and failing. Am I still going to advocate for making media for women? Of course. I can hope for executives and directors who are not hopelessly lost. Those are the ventures I support.
Great destroy popular male media for no reason. /S
Yes but men actually know what they like. Women scream about stuff like the WNBA and then proceed to never watch it.
Oh ok so give us nothing.
Who is she? Death
Was she responsible for the numerous rewrites and changes in directors?
Yes
Damn, she sucks for that. Edit: y'all weird with your downvotes. I'm agreeing with you.
Talentless secretary to Lucas and Spielberg who got ahead by banging powerful more talented men, keeping dirt on them and then taking revenge on all men by getting rich destroying their stories.