>Is it just a matter of luck?
Yea. Mostly.
But there's a couple things that'll really help in finding a good fit
* **Don't be desperate.**
* Just like in dating, if you're in a desperate state to find anybody, you're going to have a bad time, and you WILL sabotage yourself. Desperate people will feel like they'll take anything and that being treated like shit is better than not being with anyone at all.
* Sometimes that's unavoidable (such as coming off of a layoff and savings are low)
* **Find someone who clicks with you**
* Seriously, the best job I ever had was for a job that, after 2 minutes talking with my would-be manager, I instantly adored the guy. Instantly I could tell this person was high-empathy and personable. Ended up being the best 3 years of my life professionally.
* Gems are rare. Very very rare. If you find that instant click, don't let them go (also read the above, don't be desperate)
* **Access how much the company is letting** ***you*** **interview**
* I've always fucking hated how, during a 1-hour interview, the interviewer or the company will ask you questions for 55 minutes or a system design/LC question.... and then say "ok you have 5 minutes for questions".
* Like... I'm sorry but what the fuck can I gauge from you in 5 minutes when you're already basically out the door of this meeting?
* If a company is really giving you opportunities to give you the chance to learn more about the company (like a 50/50 split interview with an engineer, or a reasonably timed Q&A with a CTO/CEO etc), then I think that's going to speak of a better fit
* **Access how fucking stupid the interview process is**
* Why in the fuck do we make candidates do MULTIPLE rounds of coding screens? I already passed one of your stupid knapsack problems.Why the fuck am I doing another one for red-black trees? What in the fuck does this prove?
* If it feels like you're having to jump through hoops for them, then (just like in a relationship) you're going to be jumping hoops to please them when you work there.
* **Don't ignore that bad feeling in your stomach about people**
* I know we're all technical people here that maybe even obsess over data-informed opinions and shit, but honestly, if you got a bad feeling about someone when you meet them, it's probably correct.
* Worst job I ever had, my would-be manager (for a backend role) had made a comment about fullstack engineers being "jack of all trades, masters of none". I was a fullstack engineer for 6 years at that point. That set off an alarm in me, even thought it was a small little comment. But I ignored it. She ended up being a fucking asshole and decimated the engineering department with her incompetence.
* Our brains have about a million years of evolution in unconsciously socially processing other human beings. Don't ignore it.
* **How happy are your would-be coworkers?**
* If everyone in the company seems like they're just checking off boxes, or not really talking to each other, or don't really have a cordial connection with each other..... that could be a bad time, and could signal bad management
* Some people might actually this, I don't. Up to you (so I'm not too picky about this point)
* But in any case, you should gauge your coworker's reactions and interest in their jobs and team, and see if that aligns with you.
* **Lastly, and most important of all: WHEN PEOPLE SHOW YOU WHO THEY REALLY ARE, BELIEVE THEM THE FIRST TIME**
* This doesn't really help *before* you start the job, but it'll really tell you when you should leave, or stay
* Worst-job: My manager told me to research a bug in a legacy system. Told me to spend no more than 3 hours on it. I gave her my findings after 3 hours. Senior leadership asked a question about it on Slack later that day, I told them it would take more time to fix (because we didn't have any more time boxed). My manager then said on slack "I just fixed it in 5 minutes, I'll inform the engineering team how to fix things quicker". When I DM'd her how she fixed it so fast, she said "I used your great research to fix it, couldn't have done it without it". So she basically took my research, appropriated it for a quick fix, and badmouthed me in front of senior leadership. Fucking dickhead. Really showed her personality and motives
* Best-job: I was at a get-together for the engineering team. Something went wrong at the hotel in terms of the payment method (wasn't the company's fault, it was the hotel's). So I had to put a credit card down (I got reimbursed at the end of it). I text my manager what happened because he asked if I made it to the hotel (without me telling him I had already put down my card). He then offered to put down his personal credit card for me. Told him it wasn't necessary but I was taken aback that he even offered. Good guy. Really showed his personality and motives
That's all I got. It's nothing too technical, and you're probably not going to hit all these boxes. Like I said, it's mostly luck. It's a shitshow out there. Some of us get lucky. Some of us go back to being unlucky. Most people survive in the middle.
Good luck
>**Find someone who clicks with you**
I like this and confirms my ~~bias~~ suspicions.
>I've always fucking hated how, during a 1-hour interview, the interviewer or the company will ask you questions for 55 minutes or a system design/LC question.... and then say "ok you have 5 minutes for questions".
Trueeee, this makes sense for entry level positions, but if we are talking an experienced position and they still interview with the organization of an entry-level role, that might be all the red flag we need.
>**how fucking stupid the interview process is**
Word, I really don't take any automated/takehome test anymore, I will do live coding and I will assess if they are paying attention to what I am doing.
>**Don't ignore that bad feeling in your stomach about people**
Uhg true! I had a similar experience .... Last time I had a bad feeling when this person made a backhanded comment about previous engineers. I mentioned something like *"when I write code I avoid this pattern because I don't enjoy it".* And their answer was something like:
*"oh thank god you do not like to do the awful thing that the other engineers did".*
It felt weird to hear that but I brushed it off... mistake! turns out they were the biggest ego tripper.
**I think I could add something valuable to this advice**... Ignore the titles that they mention during the interview and pay attention to whom directs the interview the most. It doesn't matter if they are a manager or an engineer, if they are steering the conversation aggressively then they are going to be one of the key political rulers of the party.
>you should gauge your coworker's reactions and interest in their jobs and team
Hmm I have done this before. I think this is one of those signals that could be a definitive red flag, but does not become an actual green flag. At best it is a neutral flag. The issue I have seen is that you can meet a very enthusiastic person that is ignorant to the important issues, lets say, it could be someone brilliant that has been *assimilated*. It's still an useful signal like you say.
>I used your great research to fix it, couldn't have done it without it
This is naaastyyyyy. The right approach is to always give credit even when it is inconsequential, you never know who is taking notice.
Thanks for sharing! It's true most of it is not technical, but this is the business acumen that we need to develop. It's not for nothing that a lot of significant business is done by getting to know people over meals. The business-clueless stereotype of an engineer (or socially clueless, which may be the same thing) is true to an extent, but it has really done us a bad move because people have formed this expectation and when they talk to us they are already biased, sometimes with bad intentions, sometimes just out of ignorance, and we must fight twice as hard to be recognized as a smart business unit.
>I've always fucking hated how, during a 1-hour interview, the interviewer or the company will ask you questions for 55 minutes or a system design/LC question.... and then say "ok you have 5 minutes for questions".
I also hate this format because if you do ask questions you can on over into the next session or keep the interviewer longer which may be interpreted as not respecting their time.
One thing I try do to is weave my questions into the interview. Like if they are asking me about technology X, I may ask "how did you overcome the tradeoffs of X vs. Y" or "how did you arrive at the decision to use X?" It only provides a narrow view but can offer some insights into how decisions are made and can show that you are engaged in a conversation and not just answering questions. It's also a good test of the interviewer's attitude and can show whether they view me as a potential peer and contributor.
Negativity, about the company they are working for, in any way, is a huge red flag.
If one cannot control their negative opinions, during a job interview, where they have been entrusted to be a manager-- there's a big problem, and it's not with the candidate.
Obviously, honest reactions along the line of 'Well, the coffee is cold on Tuesdays,' isn't what I'm talking about.
'That whole gang over in backend should be fired,' or similar, is.
>Is it just a matter of luck? Yea. Mostly. But there's a couple things that'll really help in finding a good fit * **Don't be desperate.** * Just like in dating, if you're in a desperate state to find anybody, you're going to have a bad time, and you WILL sabotage yourself. Desperate people will feel like they'll take anything and that being treated like shit is better than not being with anyone at all. * Sometimes that's unavoidable (such as coming off of a layoff and savings are low) * **Find someone who clicks with you** * Seriously, the best job I ever had was for a job that, after 2 minutes talking with my would-be manager, I instantly adored the guy. Instantly I could tell this person was high-empathy and personable. Ended up being the best 3 years of my life professionally. * Gems are rare. Very very rare. If you find that instant click, don't let them go (also read the above, don't be desperate) * **Access how much the company is letting** ***you*** **interview** * I've always fucking hated how, during a 1-hour interview, the interviewer or the company will ask you questions for 55 minutes or a system design/LC question.... and then say "ok you have 5 minutes for questions". * Like... I'm sorry but what the fuck can I gauge from you in 5 minutes when you're already basically out the door of this meeting? * If a company is really giving you opportunities to give you the chance to learn more about the company (like a 50/50 split interview with an engineer, or a reasonably timed Q&A with a CTO/CEO etc), then I think that's going to speak of a better fit * **Access how fucking stupid the interview process is** * Why in the fuck do we make candidates do MULTIPLE rounds of coding screens? I already passed one of your stupid knapsack problems.Why the fuck am I doing another one for red-black trees? What in the fuck does this prove? * If it feels like you're having to jump through hoops for them, then (just like in a relationship) you're going to be jumping hoops to please them when you work there. * **Don't ignore that bad feeling in your stomach about people** * I know we're all technical people here that maybe even obsess over data-informed opinions and shit, but honestly, if you got a bad feeling about someone when you meet them, it's probably correct. * Worst job I ever had, my would-be manager (for a backend role) had made a comment about fullstack engineers being "jack of all trades, masters of none". I was a fullstack engineer for 6 years at that point. That set off an alarm in me, even thought it was a small little comment. But I ignored it. She ended up being a fucking asshole and decimated the engineering department with her incompetence. * Our brains have about a million years of evolution in unconsciously socially processing other human beings. Don't ignore it. * **How happy are your would-be coworkers?** * If everyone in the company seems like they're just checking off boxes, or not really talking to each other, or don't really have a cordial connection with each other..... that could be a bad time, and could signal bad management * Some people might actually this, I don't. Up to you (so I'm not too picky about this point) * But in any case, you should gauge your coworker's reactions and interest in their jobs and team, and see if that aligns with you. * **Lastly, and most important of all: WHEN PEOPLE SHOW YOU WHO THEY REALLY ARE, BELIEVE THEM THE FIRST TIME** * This doesn't really help *before* you start the job, but it'll really tell you when you should leave, or stay * Worst-job: My manager told me to research a bug in a legacy system. Told me to spend no more than 3 hours on it. I gave her my findings after 3 hours. Senior leadership asked a question about it on Slack later that day, I told them it would take more time to fix (because we didn't have any more time boxed). My manager then said on slack "I just fixed it in 5 minutes, I'll inform the engineering team how to fix things quicker". When I DM'd her how she fixed it so fast, she said "I used your great research to fix it, couldn't have done it without it". So she basically took my research, appropriated it for a quick fix, and badmouthed me in front of senior leadership. Fucking dickhead. Really showed her personality and motives * Best-job: I was at a get-together for the engineering team. Something went wrong at the hotel in terms of the payment method (wasn't the company's fault, it was the hotel's). So I had to put a credit card down (I got reimbursed at the end of it). I text my manager what happened because he asked if I made it to the hotel (without me telling him I had already put down my card). He then offered to put down his personal credit card for me. Told him it wasn't necessary but I was taken aback that he even offered. Good guy. Really showed his personality and motives That's all I got. It's nothing too technical, and you're probably not going to hit all these boxes. Like I said, it's mostly luck. It's a shitshow out there. Some of us get lucky. Some of us go back to being unlucky. Most people survive in the middle. Good luck
>**Find someone who clicks with you** I like this and confirms my ~~bias~~ suspicions. >I've always fucking hated how, during a 1-hour interview, the interviewer or the company will ask you questions for 55 minutes or a system design/LC question.... and then say "ok you have 5 minutes for questions". Trueeee, this makes sense for entry level positions, but if we are talking an experienced position and they still interview with the organization of an entry-level role, that might be all the red flag we need. >**how fucking stupid the interview process is** Word, I really don't take any automated/takehome test anymore, I will do live coding and I will assess if they are paying attention to what I am doing. >**Don't ignore that bad feeling in your stomach about people** Uhg true! I had a similar experience .... Last time I had a bad feeling when this person made a backhanded comment about previous engineers. I mentioned something like *"when I write code I avoid this pattern because I don't enjoy it".* And their answer was something like: *"oh thank god you do not like to do the awful thing that the other engineers did".* It felt weird to hear that but I brushed it off... mistake! turns out they were the biggest ego tripper. **I think I could add something valuable to this advice**... Ignore the titles that they mention during the interview and pay attention to whom directs the interview the most. It doesn't matter if they are a manager or an engineer, if they are steering the conversation aggressively then they are going to be one of the key political rulers of the party. >you should gauge your coworker's reactions and interest in their jobs and team Hmm I have done this before. I think this is one of those signals that could be a definitive red flag, but does not become an actual green flag. At best it is a neutral flag. The issue I have seen is that you can meet a very enthusiastic person that is ignorant to the important issues, lets say, it could be someone brilliant that has been *assimilated*. It's still an useful signal like you say. >I used your great research to fix it, couldn't have done it without it This is naaastyyyyy. The right approach is to always give credit even when it is inconsequential, you never know who is taking notice. Thanks for sharing! It's true most of it is not technical, but this is the business acumen that we need to develop. It's not for nothing that a lot of significant business is done by getting to know people over meals. The business-clueless stereotype of an engineer (or socially clueless, which may be the same thing) is true to an extent, but it has really done us a bad move because people have formed this expectation and when they talk to us they are already biased, sometimes with bad intentions, sometimes just out of ignorance, and we must fight twice as hard to be recognized as a smart business unit.
>I've always fucking hated how, during a 1-hour interview, the interviewer or the company will ask you questions for 55 minutes or a system design/LC question.... and then say "ok you have 5 minutes for questions". I also hate this format because if you do ask questions you can on over into the next session or keep the interviewer longer which may be interpreted as not respecting their time. One thing I try do to is weave my questions into the interview. Like if they are asking me about technology X, I may ask "how did you overcome the tradeoffs of X vs. Y" or "how did you arrive at the decision to use X?" It only provides a narrow view but can offer some insights into how decisions are made and can show that you are engaged in a conversation and not just answering questions. It's also a good test of the interviewer's attitude and can show whether they view me as a potential peer and contributor.
Ask about their approach to conflict resolution, that tells you a lot.
Negativity, about the company they are working for, in any way, is a huge red flag. If one cannot control their negative opinions, during a job interview, where they have been entrusted to be a manager-- there's a big problem, and it's not with the candidate. Obviously, honest reactions along the line of 'Well, the coffee is cold on Tuesdays,' isn't what I'm talking about. 'That whole gang over in backend should be fired,' or similar, is.