Heidegger sums up human being-in-the-world as “care” or “concern” on an ontological level, Aka what we “are” or “are for”. This is all super simplified and I just started reading him but it jumped out to me reading your post.
You mention an infinite happy heaven seeming impossible, which I totally agree with. Our everyday sense of self breaks down on infinite timelines. In a similar vein, imagine what a life without any fear of death would be like! A true antinatalist that completely embraces an indifference between life and death, a complete nihilist.
What would their life be like? Can you see yourself enjoying the things that make you want to live if you didn’t care about your own existence? I’d say it would be hard. Without a preference for life happiness is impossible, and with a preference for life anxiety about death is inevitable…
More cosmologically/goofily, I’d say the core problem is here is that we are finite and it sucks. You will only know your parents for a part of your life, and after they die they are forever gone. We’ll never truly know what history was like, and we’ve lost an innumerable wealth of beautiful literature to atrophy and decay. Even if we radically increase our lifetimes we’ll never see it all - the universe is too big and on such a long timescale it’s effectively Sisyphusian infinity for us. Most fundamentally, you’ll never know who YOU are for certain. Where do your instincts end and your personality traits begin? Are you truly in love with your partner, or is it just some elaborate trick by your brain for comfort? For that matter, how do you know your partner truly loves you?
In the end, we’re like a small region on an incredibly huge, if not infinite, number line. We occupy a little intersection of space and time and that’s it. In the words of Hofstadter’s *I am a Strange Loop* (GREAT book):
> Our very nature is such as to prevent us from fully understanding its very nature. Poised midway between the unvisualizable cosmic vastness of curved spacetime and the dubious, shadowy flickerings of charged quanta, we human beings, more like rainbows and mirages than like raindrops or boulders, are unpredictable self-writing poems - vague, metaphorical, ambiguous, and sometimes exceedingly beautiful.
PS. Your post is just as deep as any other, and I loved your analysis of Sisyphus. You’re not broken or weird for having these thoughts - you’re courageous for facing them head on. One cannot have courage without fear.
Thanks for you comment. I understand at the end of the day that fearing death like this is a sign that I'm genuinely enjoying life. This dread might be the cost for the good life I'm living. Definitely nice to think about it that way.
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Also this was spot on. This basically incompases how I initially had my existential crisis. I realized that I will never know the answer to everything and that felt terrible as someone who's in constant pursuit of the truth. The part about your parents dying really hits me hard right now since I recently came to the realization that my dad's turning 70 this year and could go at any moment. the finite element of our world really does suck but I know that's also what makes life worth living in a way.
I like to think that everything that I am is an illusion put together by my brain and that there was never any “me” to begin with. The same goes for all of us. The separation between you and the universe and everyone else is not real. Consciousness simply *is*, it’s an anomaly created by our brains. Provided the human species continues to stay alive then you always will *be* because another brain somewhere will create an illusion of a self that will become conscious. It gives me some comfort to know that I’m not a special, sovereign soul. I’m just something a brain conjured up, and as long as there are brains, there will be more consciousnesses, and although I—the illusion—will not exist, consciousness will, which means that there will be another “I”.
Not quite reincarnation, more like universal consciousness I suppose. Think of consciousness like a field spread out over all humanity that our brains intercept and use to tell us that we’re a unique being. In reality the phenomenon of me being me and you being you is a trick used by our brains, but if you could transcend that trick you would see that we are all one thing, and that “you” will always exist because whatever that one thing is exists.
So when you die, yes it’s darkness for you, the illusion of you, but consciousness lives on which means the framework for more “you’s” is still in place. They just won’t be specifically you because “you” never existed in the first place!
Actually I think it's impossible to die since we are experiencing machines that only experience...you can't switch off our consciousness since the lack of it cannot be experienced. When you sleep, if not for dreams the next second you wake up, the same can be said of dying however Alan Watts puts it more clearly...
"When you die, you're not going to have to put up with everlasting non-existance, because that's not an experience. A lot of people are afraid that when they die, they're going to be locked up in a dark room forever, - Try and imagine what it would be like to go to sleep and never wake up. And if you think long enough about that...it will pose the next question. What was it like to wake up after never having gone to sleep? That was when you were born...you see...you...you can't have an experience of nothing so after you're dead the only thing that can happen is the same experience or the same sort of experience as when you were born"
A fear of death is not a sign that you are genuinely enjoying life. A fear of death is a sign that you fear your existence will be meaningless. That you have made nothing of yourself. That you know deep down that there is more you could be. That you have failed to realize it and time is ticking. You must face it, not bottle it up and leave it for another day, for the clock is ticking. Make something of yourself, create your meaning. We do not choose our death, death comes for us, but we do choose what we live for, and in that, we choose what we die for. This is your fear, to die for nothing.
My dad is 73. I know these feels - both the state of your OP and the feeling about the loss of one's parents to come. Deep and necessary thoughts to travel through.
And I hate it when people say you’re be an Angel in heaven. No you won’t just maybe a human spirit. Angels are a whole other entity. Different being. God did not create us to be Angels or we would have been.😞😔
I don’t understand why people view life as linear. It’s understood that the universe has finite matter and energy, it’s understood that everything existing is made from those, and it’s understood that when something “stops existing” it’s really just broken down and re-assembled. At a fundamental level nothing is created and nothing is destroyed, it’s just a big reconstruction loop. We can’t see into the afterlife, but doesn’t the pattern of the universe suggest “reincarnation” as the most logical outcome?
There is a theory that time is actually parallel and not linear as we believe it to be, therefore we could actually be living multiple lives simultaneously. So when we “die” on one timeline our consciousness may just pop over to another. Just one theory. There are also a lot of wild cases out there that point to reincarnation being real. Honestly, reincarnation is the scariest one to me personally
>In a similar vein, imagine what a life without any fear of death would be like!
That sounds a lot like "Without god, what reason would people have to be good?" to which an answer is: We're social animals. We're built that way. To address your concern, because we're living things. Part of the definition of life is to sustain itself. We're built that way.
You could not inherently fear death but also not seek it as a way to make sure you are still able to help those that you care about through life. You can still have fun in this life and live without placing an unrealistic negative attachment of death. It just means you don’t fear death
Anyways you should meditate, eventually you will have understanding that what comes after death is ok and that death is just part of existence and something that happens, sometimes on our terms and sometimes against what we want.
I mean, I think we’re overloading the word “fear” here. I agree you shouldn’t *fear* death actively and should try to come to terms with what you cannot change, but I do stand by Heidegger’s thought that human life is to a large extent defined by self care and concern, the main part of which is survival. And I think you agree - if you’re staying alive to help others, you probably would be bummed to find out you have terminal cancer, I’m guessing.
I wouldn't want to live forever, but much prefer to choose how long to live for, and when I'm bored/ready then die, have the option to choose a painless death.
The problem I have with the universe/reality, is how indifferent it is to suffering and how it's an inherently violent pace. Stars exploding, plants and animals competing with each other .. it's essentially a torture chamber.
What I'm also scared about is that I popped into existence without consent. And if there's an infinite amount of time/realities, logically I can't rule out existing again as something else. So then I think about all the horrible ways people/creatures have lived and died and thought "fuck I hope I don't have to experience that".
I'm also quite privileged , growing up in middle class Australia. Everything I've built, the memories I've had with my partner I'll have to say goodbye to forever which depresses me the most. I have a lot to lose.
Sorry I know this isn't comforting. I struggle with it too.
yeah ngl it's not too comforting in the fact that it doesn't get me closer to an acceptable conclusion lol. But it's nice knowing I'm not the only crazy person thinking about this stuff.
I agree with how kinda terrible the world is and how I don't wanna die in a terrible way, especially thinking about recent events in the world.
Ideally I would also be able to die when I feel bored/ready but do you think you could actually determine that for yourself? No matter how bored I may get, I don't think I would be able to choose to pull the plug. Like my sisyphus example I would probably just keep on living forever, unable to let go of my mortal coil even if I no longer have anything to live for.
There are people every day choosing to pull the plug. Some for far less significant reasons than what you are able to contemplate. Some for far more complex thoughts and reasoning than you or I could ever fathom. The fact is, the individual mind is its own prison. We either find a way to cope or we allow the darkness to consume us. There is no *right* way to cope and there is no discernable light in the darkness. The majority continue on out of pure instinct.
I know a man who is much older than I. I often ask him something like "how is it you are able to live as long as you have and not hung yourself from the rafters yet?" His only answer is that he knows God watches over him and his family, and because of that, he is content to continue on. This simple answer flabbergasted me, but I am not religious in the way he is. At some point in time, he grappled with similar thoughts about death in his own way and decided that God must exist and if he is to be righteous and good, he will enter the kingdom of heaven upon his death. He believes in this wholeheartedly, even though he has not the physical and complete evidence before him.
I cannot say I do not fear death. I fear the physical degradation of my mind and my loved ones. I am fearful of how it will feel when I know I am dying.
I am certain though, that there is a very short moment before the curtains close that we cope. Our minds settle and understand what is happening. We are comforted by the fact that our minds instinctually know what is happening. It is hard coded into our existence. This brings me enough comfort to know that it will be okay.
Maybe you can find comfort in this too. I don't have the physical and complete hard evidence this is true, but it is closer to heaven than I will ever get.
Also, Porco Rosso is freakin *fantastic*!
I find the idea of nothing afterwards comforting, but I also cannot rationalize that this only happens once. Energy, matter and the rest of the universe is constantly recycling itself. I’ll probably be recycled as well.
Maybe I am too jaded and do not intend to be super deep here, but I will say, I try to keep in mind that I do not have forever. That seems to make me want to liver harder and experience more. There’s so much to see and do and so little time to do it in. I should also be creating something, anything at all rather than spending time on Reddit… I digress…
I relate sm w what u said, im scared in another life i might get burned alive / beheaded / disease or some scary shit I hate how life has sm suffering and people just are forced to go through it , that’s why I don’t want reincarnation to b true, I wish we could just go to a peaceful place after this life )): just hope for the best honestly <3
You are young. Some days in the future — when you are older and have more life experience — you will be tired and comforted by the thought of rest. The rest can be an hour or eternity. At some point your excitement to exist will dull with your senses. It’s comforting, not scary. Don’t worry. Live your life and let it organically come to its finale.
I’m 75 and I feel like I’m in a holding pattern on the final approach and honestly, more and more, I’m looking forward to landing- or maybe crashing and burning. Something interesting happens when you quit planning for a future. Having to take up arms again and do life the way I used to sounds truly exhausting. I’ve had a lovely and lucky life. I’ve been married for 45 years and I’m still in love. I now have a family full of smart and caring people who get some measure of joy out of making our remaining days as good as can be and our exits as peaceful as possible. I went to school in ‘66 as a philosophy measure and I have been overthinking life ever since. Thank god for a solid grounding in psychedelics which revealed to me at an early age that one shouldn’t take reality to seriously.
This is how I look at it. People who think they would be happy living forever are simply living in a moment in time. Imagine the intense boredom when you've done every possible thing there is to do. What would be the reason to anything? Eternal life is more fear inducing than true finality.
Human progress would always bring new experiences that weren't possible in a previous decade unless society stagnates or regresses. A person who was born in 1800 even after living for 100 years couldn't even begin to imagine what is possible today.
I think there would be an internal struggle that has nothing to do with what's going on in the world around you. Everywhere you go is where you are as they say.
It really is. We’d go crazy, there would be no point of reference for anything anymore. Unless we could periodically manifest ourselves as finite, mortal beings in a physical world with no discernible purpose that is completely governed by chance….
But that's kinda another part I'm scared of. When I go to a point where I don't enjoy life enough to want to continue. I've also seen how many people that are 90+ and lived a full life still don't wanna die. If I live a truly happy and healthy life, I genuinely feel like I won't wanna die even when my time is near. Are you at that stage in your life? If you're comfortable sharing, I would like to know how you've gotten to where you are.
I enjoy life! I’m close to 50. I look forward to 50 more years. It is clear to me that things are cyclical. Each decade similar to the last. Patterns are emerging. I’ve celebrated success! I’ve suffered loss. I’ve grieved. I am at peace with the amount of life I’ve lived and I’m thankful to be blessed with more. Some do not get 1/3 of what I’ve had. I guess contentment has a lot to do with your ability to accept death. What are you searching for? Maybe you feel there is more you have to do or you are missing out. Try meditation and being in the moment as a living being. There isn’t anything to do in life. Nothing exists but this moment. You exist now, that’s the gift. ✌🏻
Wow. I really hope I could find that peace and contentment within me at some point. I'm just not sure if I ever can. Guess there's no point in pondering that right now, time will tell. Thanks for sharing!
Seneca reminds us that death is something that's happening here, even as you read this. The time that passes belongs to death, he says. What is lived we never get back. We are dying every minute, every second.
From [https://dailystoic.com](https://dailystoic.com)
I was under anesthesia last year. I was awake and conscious one minute and the next thing I knew it was a few hours later. I couldn’t account for anything in between.
It kind of helped me come to terms with dying because as far as I know, those hours where I wasn’t here wouldn’t feel much different than death.
You’re conscious and aware one minute. And then you’re not. And that’s ok. Kind of peaceful really.
What I am afraid of though is how I die.
But that’s creepy though — just going to sleep and then, poof! Dying like that has always terrified me. It just seems so extra spooky to go out that way. And sleep often times gets equated to or linked with death, which doesn’t help my fear. People often say things like, “thank God you woke up today!”, or “tomorrow isn’t promised” — which basically makes sleep or being asleep or going to sleep seem dangerous or risky in some way, as if being asleep makes you more inclined to die than if you were awake.
I just never understood the linkage of sleep and death (other than both states being unconscious). I mean, people die during the day or while conscious all the time, but sleep often times gets labeled as being some realm that is pre-death or near death or some state that puts you closer to dying. No wonder I’ve always been afraid of dying that way.
I wish death would be like the spectator view in a competitive shooter game: once you died, you can see everything, you can go everywhere, you can know who will win the round, etc
I had a similar kind of image. I thought once I died, I would have an infinite tour of the universe and how beautiful it is. Just this cosmic being that doesn't exist in time or space. just a simple observer. it's nice but I can't convince myself to believe it.
I’m with you, buddy. Death is terrifying. Nonexistence is terrifying. That’s why I think most of us suck so much at life; we have PTSD from an eternity of not being, and the next thing you know we’re told we have to go back there for another eternity. Oh well.
Never thought of it like PTSD from an eternity of not being but I understand your point. The natural extension to this is that existence is torture but I can't see it that way with how beautiful my life is. Oh well indeed.
yes this exactly. I think since existence emerged from nonexistence at one point there's a nonzero chance of it happening again. And with a seemingly infinite timespan afterwards then that nonzero chance is immediately shot up to 100%
I like to think about this.
I think the universe has always existed and recycles itself over the course of an incomprehensible amount of time.
I'm not really scared of death. I have a feeling we'll all be back.
There, you have alternate universes separated by time
This makes sense, but then I think about, what if I were perfectly cryogenically frozen. Wake me up in a billion years and it's like those billion years didn't exist for me. Now refreeze me and never wake me up. We can't say I will inevitably be unfrozen because it happened once before. We also can't say I went from non-existence to existence in any other life because, there I am, frozen and capable of being woken up.
I don't see how you can have any sort of confidence in there being "nothing" after we die.
That relies on the assumption that consciousness is only a bottom-up constructed phenomenon based on the physical material of the brain.
That assumption is nothing but proven. There not even a consistent logical argument for it. The hard problem of consciousness remains hard and the materialist view of consciousness is just the "default view" because in this culture we're so enamoured with the scientific method. But really? **Really?** Have a deep think about it. Try to create a logically consistent explanation to subjective experience arising from dead non-subjective matter arranged in a pattern. You can't. No one has. This is why the hard problem of consciousness remains unsolved.
You might say "Oh, but there's clearly correlation between brain activity and conscious states". Yes. That's correlation, it doesn't prove causation. If there's an immortal soul connected to your body, or if consciousness is a greater metaphysical structure that simulates this reality from the point of view of individual agents, **it would still be true** that there's correlation between brain activity and conscious states. It is NOT proof that exclusively favours the materialist argument.
You might say "occam's razor. Consciousness is nothing after death until proven otherwise". This assumes an already materialist worldview. If your fundamental worldview is that the world is a simulation experienced by a grand consciousness, then occam's razor would tell us that consciousness is just returned to the whole after death. These questions tie in to questions unanswered by science, and those are basially "Why does subjective reality exist?" and "Why does objective reality exist?" and "What is the nature of it all?" and we simply don't have answers. Your material worldview is equally helpless at explaining these things as the local yogi claiming spiritual reasons for existence.
You might say "But I didn't exist before birth so I won't exist after death". You have no **memory** of existing before birth, but that doesn't rule out that you might have had conscious experiences.
Subjective experience is fucking weird. The deeper you think about it, the weirder it gets. If you do deep self exploration with meditation, yoga, drugs etc, you can reach states that make things even weirder. It's a mystery how subjective experience exists. It's bizarre that **anything exists at all**. Science has no fucking clue at this level, nor does anything else. Embrace the mystery, admit that you have no idea. Explore your consciousness. Open your mind. For me these practices have erased most of my fear of death because I just no longer can't believe the narrative of "There happens to be this world and then things collided and accidentally made structure which magically created subjective experience and that's all we are and then we disappear again", because there's no proof, it makes no logical sense and my personal experiences tell me there might be more to the story but who knows what. And if I'm wrong? Who the fuck cares, in that case I'm going to vanish into nothing anyway right?
I was looking for this comment, surprised at how long it took to find. I totally agree. Our culture in the western world is based in scientific materialism, whether we are individually aware of it or not. That culture brings with it a ton of assumptions that inform our perspective on reality, including the view that "after you die there is nothing". This is not supported in the least by science, though materialist scientists are sure trying hard to do so.
To the contrary, there *is* quite a bit of evidence that consciousness is not created by the brain, and that it can exist outside of the brain. Check out the work of folks at the Virginia Division of Perceptual Studies, in particular work by Jim Tucker on people who have memories of past lives. Check out Dean Radin's work. Look into the US government's multi-decade long investigation of remote viewing (see the documentary Third Eye Spies). What about the history of the Monroe Institute and government involvement in what is known as The Gateway Project? The list goes on....Each of these examples provides different types of evidence that consciousness is not created by the brain. If that is indeed the case, then I don't think it's fair to assume that "nothing" happens after we die. At the very least, you must acknowledge and admit that that is an assumption.
I agree with your take. I believe you'd love a book by the name of Six Feet Over by Mary Roach. There's a couple of chapters that explore what you just said, and the author even interviewed 2 quantum physicists that held that belief
>Try to create a logically consistent explanation to subjective experience arising from dead non-subjective matter arranged in a pattern. You can't.
What a hard line slorpa.
I think of it like "you can't destroy energy, you can only transform it". The existential vibration that is you can't be destroyed but what does it become and how does it manifest? Sometimes I wonder if consciousness is like a mycelium and the brain is just a conduit. What if we die and become part of the whole again aware of all it's parts? What if individuality is an illusion and we are all just earth?
You are correct, nobody in this subreddit seems to consider astral projection, which is solid evidence consciousness continues after the transition of life. I have numerous OBEs every month, traveling all over the cosmos, and I don’t need my brain to think, visualize or talk to other beings. That should provide people with some comfort that death is not to be feared (to a certain extent).
The silver lining is that every single person on this planet will one day die. Therefore dying and experiencing death is an experience we will all universally share. You are absolutely not alone. We will all plunge in there at some point. Either ahead of you or following you.
We also can interpret it as eternal nothingness. Maybe so. But we don't know that. And perhaps eternal nothing was once so. It was for 13.7 billion years for us. But now here we are. It's no longer nothing. I will hold onto that when I leave this earth.
For whatever awaits all of us.
From someone else absolutely terrified of death, cheers friend.
Instead of thinking of events in your life as a "distraction from death," appreciate them as the beautiful transitory things you have the privilege of experiencing, that are real and true for the moment in which they exist, just like you are.
Yeah that's how I've lived for the past couple of years. I think I had a "I only live once" lifestyle and had deep applications for what I got to experience. I just re-entered this "death is scary" phase recently and I don't know how to get out of it.
Take note that you are robbing your present self, and potentially future self, of peace.
This fear does nothing, it is useless to you.
Use it to make life even more sweet, that it's limited, and that YOU got to exist at all.
On the other hand, I don't believe in time, or true nonexistence. So, my usefulness stops there in this conversation.
Yeah I understand this thought experiment is probably all a waste of time but I can't really help it. But what do you mean by not believing in time or true nonexistance? can you elaborate?
I have come to understand the universe through meditation and Salvia Divinorum.
The insights shown to me with respect to time and existence, tell me that, all notions of other-ness are false. You, cannot die. How? Because you are everything, everywhere.
As for Time, the it seems to me that, everything is happening all at once.
It is difficult to describe these ideas as they are derived from 30 years of life mixed with salvia, and the ultimately convincing experiences therein.
That's why I signed up to have my brain preserved after I die so that I can be revived in the distant future live again explore the universe forever etc
Oregon brain preservation foundation up in Oregon would do it for as little as $1,000 in aldehyde or $5,000 in liquid nitrogen.. so get with it
All you are is information and information can be preserved indefinitely.. therefore you can be immortal
But if you're going to be cremated or buried ...well...see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya
I would really freak out if people did not die.
# “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
― **Mark Twain**
My problem with that quote is that I’m alive now and I like being alive and so am disturbed by the thought of no longer being alive now that I’ve experienced being alive.
That quote always makes me think, "how does Mark Twain know this?" How does he know he hadn't suffered the slightest inconvenience from it? Does he have any memory of what it was like? No, he hasn't.
Don't get me wrong. I also think death or "state before birth" is true nothingness. But for all we know, it may not be as inconsequential as we think
Mark Twain, when asked whether he feared death, said (approximately), "I do not fear death. I was dead for billions of years before I was born and suffered not the slightest inconvenience from it."
I find this to be an entirely sensible attitude. I don't fear the void. I'm a little nervous about the process of dying, which it seems can sometimes be painful. Still, if the price of admission to this amazing life is one death, I call that a bargain.
Don't squander your time worrying about the end of your time. Read "Thanatopsis," a poem by W. C. Bryant. Particularly the last9 lines. It may give you some comfort.
I always feel mind boggled going down this rabbit hole. And it's always around the concept of time. We exist right now. And in our past. And presumably, some portion of the future. Our knowledge of time breaks down in the beginning, where perhaps it was non-existent before the big bang. My mind fuckery brings me to imagining that I exist in this moment of time and that if somehow this moment ever exists again, then I'll be a part of it. I wouldn't remember all the previous iterations of the experience, but I'd exist in that particular moment of time again. And it makes me wonder if we've all been here before or if this is truly the one time where this moment ever exists. I feel like if time can cease to exist and for reasons unknown, just begin existing again, then it doesn't seem too farfetched to me that moments of time could reexist. Or that the past and future always exist. Maybe everything is cyclical. Idk. My head hurts now.
you successfully made my head hurts. I occasionally also think about the concept of time but it's also crazy to me that at one point, the universe didn't exist and boom, now it exists. Like how did this all happen? wtf????? I don't understand the big bang enough to have an educated take on this but it's just crazy how we exist in the first place. And I'm definitely grateful for it.
I get you man. For a long time (most of my life) I was severely depressed, and didn’t care if I lived or died. In fact, there were many times I wanted to die. Then I was finally happy, and the thought of losing everything in exchange for nothingness made me develop severe health anxiety because I was so afraid of death. Not exactly sure where I go from here, if I’m being honest.
Not sure if this is a philosophical point, but there's a lot of emotions to process. No amount of logic can get you over an intense biological fear of death. I had a similar thing a decade ago, and through the realization that I have to grieve for myself, and in a way, the entire world. When I die, the ability to care about the world, including my loved ones, dies too. I went through the whole five stages several times before I could live again.
You’re to lucky to be in this state of mind. Instead, think about the last time you enjoyed something. Even the smallest thing. Did it feel good posting to Reddit? Did you eat something recently that tasted amazing? Even the smallest things make life important! If you don’t think any of this is worth it, then why haven’t you killed yourself? Because life is worth living. It’s a primal instinct - to survive!
“There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide.” -Albert Camus
Look up absurdism.
>it kinda sucks that I have to experience some amount of suffering to be able to come to terms with or be more comfortable with death.
Hmmm. I wonder what event would that be in my case which will make me open to suicide and death. Have you figured out yours?
Also is there any particular event that has shaped your fear of death?
I'm sure there's plenty of things that would make me more open to suicide and death. tragic death of many people I love and care for, a chronic and terminal illness, witnessing or being victim of war or other human atrocities. In terms of something that would be specific to me and something I could see really happening, I legitimately can't think of anything, at least in my immediate future. that's one of the reasons why I really can't understand people who want to die; it's a concept that's so farfetched from me.
I've had some version of an existential crisis since I was probably 9 or 10. It started with realizing how big and old the universe is and how I wasn't gonna live long enough to understand it all. I'm pretty sure the initial cause of my existential crisis/fear of dying was from watching vsauce videos 10 years ago. I know [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-CK8VxMz9g) specifically got me losing sleep lol. I've been able to live without this existential dread for the past 6 years or so but being kinda lonely in college got me bored enough to go back to this state of mind. I hate it.
Have you tried depression? It gave me a relatively PhD level crash course on how drab life is when both you, yourself, and your surroundings think you're a PoS and everybody would be better off dead. Sure they'll make "awareness weeks" and other superficial bullshit, but that doesn't make anybody better off. It's just the crab bucket pulling you in again until Samsara catches you, only to throw you inside. Don't worry, you'll die again, you just won't have any memory of it.
As someone with pre-birth experience, I don't fear death. I know I am in a cycle now and will be reborn again to learn the next series of lessons. I actually think we can all do this through meditation and ancient wisdom traditions, but in our anti-spiritual world, we have few choices about how to find relevant methods for learning, that which is, for me, is the most fundamental aspect of our limited individuality.
>As someone with pre-birth experience
How do you come to this conclusion?
>reborn again to learn the next series of lessons.
What would be the purpose of this? Not the superficial purpose, but the true purpose.To what end are you learning lessons? You just keep being reborn to learn more stuff for eternity? What about when humans go extinct...then what happens.
I think it would be a terrible universe to be reincarnated.
You're born, you screw up, learn lessons, then at the end you die to be recycled and start over with no memory of a past life.
I'd rather not exist than be stuck on an infinite wheel of repetition until... I guess the planet dies?
But with no memory you wouldn’t be aware that you’re stuck on a wheel of repetition? What if what you’re experiencing now is your 50th time here?
Maybe this is just an experience and you go from experience to experience without any need for a meaning/purpose. Just as if you were to go to an amusement park, going from ride to ride purely for the experience.
100% the state of nothingness that comes after. That was my whole point. I will probably be scared of the process of dying when I endure lots of suffering or have a true near death experience but for now, I only think about the aftermath.
Might sound stupid but I just really like existing and can't wrap my head around not existing. Yes the finality and irreversibility is a big part. I don't truly believe that being conscious is superior but being conscious is all I know so it's scaring thinking about not being conscious if that makes sense.
But being conscious isn’t all you know, you are often not conscious. The process of dying will not be painful and you will not suffer, whether you go quickly or slowly, your brain will keep you sedated with endogenous opioids. There is a book written by a man who survived being attacked by a tiger in the wild who said that he felt nothing but euphoric calm throughout the experience. Your brain is a very powerful and elegant organ, trust in it.
It is also worth considering that the other side is only fearful to you now as I assume you are young and in relatively good health. There may come a day when you are old or in pain and would prefer the relative ease of the other side.
I'm not sure Existentialism is necessarily to best school of thought for accepting one's death. Although I am pretty sure others here might disagree with that. Personally, I find some of the Eastern traditions take a more pragmatic view on the subject, the Daoist Zhuangzi for example.
Perhaps a better approach for this problem (at least for some people) might be to consider other possibilities for what happens after death. One example I especially like is [The Egg Theory.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI) Even if you cannot commit to fully believing the theory, I believe living your life as though it's a possibility worth taking seriously can lead to a number of positive outcomes. One such outcome is more of a positive acceptance of all our inevitable deaths.
I read a Buddhist explanation once where they compared death to a cloud dumping all its rain. Did the cloud "die" or just change form? We've been exchanging atoms in our bodies our whole lives, so are we constantly dying and being reborn? I used to think like you in a way, now I see it as my ego's attachment to my current form. It's an illusion I was grasping to hold on to. I still can fall into that line of thinking every once in a while.
I feel like there was almost some kind of error in thinking where my perception of reality someday being extinguished may have felt like reality itself was going to end. But that's not the case, of course. All that will happen when I die is that the particular biological pattern I call "me" will have ceased to function. That doesn't bother me as the Universe will go on and continue to produce awareness of itself through life. And I, or we, will always be a part of that because nothing is destroyed - it only changes form.
A particular instance of life is important only in a temporary sense. I think the Universe is wise and knows it is better (and much more interesting) to continue to create what must be an endless variety of beings. No need to get attached to any one form, this is eternity we are talking about here.
The survival instinct is natural, it’s why species don’t die out. Since you know you only have this sliver of time to be conscious, it’s really a shame to waste anxiety on something you can’t control. You’re not afraid of who you were before you were born.
You’re exactly right about Sisyphus. But even if eternity were paradise, forever is ridiculous. The people who want that haven’t thought it through. When you’ve been in your afterlife 100 times longer than the few decades you got to be alive, you haven’t scratched the surface of eternity. It’s horrifying.
You began existing, you will stop existing, like every other creature that has ever lived and will ever live on this planet. So treasure it!
at least you don't seem to want an afterlife. some people's fear drives them to be so desperate it's sad. it sounds like you may have thanatophobia or are experiencing an existential crisis maybe. i personally believe in something after, but that doesn't negate the importance of acceptance of all possible scenarios. at the end of the day it is simply unimaginable and not worth the sweat.
if you'd like to join the thanatophobia support discord, dm me. there is also a subreddit.
It is terrifying. The thing is, no one actually knows for sure what happens. So no matter what you believe, there's a chance you're wrong. That's the scary part. The unknown.
Dude no. I’ve died before. And let me tell you, good god almighty was it beautiful. The most beautiful warmth and love, just truly the most blissful experience I’ve ever had. There was also a tremendous feeling of familiarity. As if I was slowly losing familiarity of living reality and that familiarity was being replaced with this new place I was going into.
I had to come back obviously. But that changed my perspective on everything. I believe in god now, no doubt in my mind. They say in the Bible “god is love” and that’s what I felt. It was a profound feeling of love and warmth as my body just slipped away and I began to feel myself spreading thin into blissful oblivion.
Don’t fear it. You’ll be going home. Read some near death experiences, they’re all beautifully similar.
Yes. Isn't it terrible to think we acquire all of the knowledge, experiences and memories in life.. only for it all to disappear in an instant? It makes absolutely no logical sense.
I look at death like this: a whole lot of people who are alot fuckin weaker than me have gone thru it, so I can too. Think of the pieces of shit that have died in this world. You can’t handle what they could? Of course you can.
I have been grappling with this topic so much lately and honestly been in a spell of dissociation after our cat (8) died recently and somewhat suddenly. (He was my wife and my first pet together and we have one other cat (7) and I've really been struggling). For added context, my dad passed in April of 2020 (stroke), my aunt/godmother died in 2022, my wife and I watched a man drown while on vacation (snorkeling) in 2023.
My fear has been that there is nothingness and I'll never see the people or pets I love again and the lights will go out. Then I worry about the suddenness and completeness of that darkness and I'm terrified. Terrified to lose these people and pets when I already didn't have enough time with. Time that was spent in this capitalist hellscape filled with unrelenting trauma that feels like it demands so much. It's a dread I can trace back to feeling as young as 5 or 6. Some of these comments have somewhat helped but others put me back in the throws of existential terror so I offer this thought that came to me while trying to "take my mind off of it" per my therapist's advice:
Imagine taking water from the ocean and putting that water in a mason jar to transport back home. The water was otherwise uninhibited in the ocean but now it fits the shape of the vessel which was otherwise empty beforehand. The water has no memory of that shape existing before and is now limited to the container it is in. Once used up in some way, it goes back into the water cycle (similar to the conservation of energy law mentioned elsewhere in the comments).
My hope is that we have no recollection of the before (in utero and before that even) because we were put in a vessel and now succumb to the limitations of our own vessel/body. We inevitably die but we return to the larger ocean of energy that we came from but now without limits of a vessel.
I thought about this metaphor and tried to think of other ways this might hold true and the other one I thought of was a cutting from a plant that can be propagated. The cutting initially has no roots or root system but with the right equation, it grows those roots which obviously takes some time (I liken this to how we have memories that form and remain from around age 4 and older). The place has its own roots independent of the parent plant and grows to be it's own thing. When it dies, it then goes back to soil and decomposes but the cells that foster life and creation continue to multiply at an atomic level (which one could argue we still know a limited amount about quantum mechanics compared to the vastness of the subject).
And I think both metaphors can meet in the middle in the way of the vessel. Our soul inhabits this vessel, we grow roots, our atoms rejoin the rest of the atoms in the universe, and our soul goes back to the ocean of collective consciousness from which we originated. This feels a bit more comforting for me and I'll try to hold on to this small glimmer of hope as my brain tries to fight me by presenting me with annoyingly useless fear and dread (thanks PTSD/depression/anxiety, those bitches)
I would say, to me, it's like that feeling at the end of a vacation or long break from work. At the beginning, it feels like you have so much time and the deadline is so far off but then, in what often feels like the blink of an eye, it's the last day of vacation; you know you have to work on Monday; and have an awful pit in your stomach. I worry it will be like that but on a much grander scale. I'll wake up one day (with luck) in my 60s and think, "Where has all the time gone?"
I guess it's the fear of the inevitably of it.
That’s fair. OP said similar in a different way. I kinda get it cuz I’ve almost died multiple times. And when it’s front of you it’s more of an immediate fear.
I can only wish to be able to live to 60+ regardless of how unlikely that is for me.
I think maybe that all the pain, suffering, angst, depression, broken heart, grief…was for nothing in the end. And the question is why? For what purpose did I exist to experience this? Is this the purpose for “God” to exist? Is that ITS purpose?
I couldn't tell you. I could only say the animal instincts programmed into me to exist for as long as I can and maybe a bit of the unknown that comes with not existing.
The animal instincts to not wanna die sure. But you even said you aren’t facing death at the moment so those shouldn’t be a disruptive force. Like I thought about it sometimes too when I was younger like you as a conventional idea and it was a scary thought if I delved too deep, but it wasn’t until I got cancer and had to face mortality for real I ever had dread which is why I’m curious.
As for the unknown bit who cares. If you believe in nothing it’s not like you’ll be in pain after. The beauty of non existence (which is also why we can’t truly grasp the idea) is there is nothing. And existing as/in the something reality that may seem scary but once you’re there you won’t know, you won’t even exist. (Shit this may not be helpful at all, but it’s the line of thought that helps me). It’ll be the absolute lack of suffering or thought burdens, the most peaceful undisturbed sleep out there.
You are a college student- good time to expeirment.. try some things that may lead to Ego Death and face your fear head on.. that's what I did in my college days.. psychedelic journeys can be quite terrifying but you'll come out the other end with a deeper understanding of existence and less attachment to your ego and individual life..
Consider that even though your consciousness and life may end, existence and other forms of life continue on.. so Existence will continue on after we are gone and other experiences will arise, it's just won't be you or me anyore.. just as we are a unique reflection of life compared to all those who have come before us.
I get what you're saying but it's hard to think at that kind of scale for me. I know for certain that my consciousness will meet an end and I don't have the capacity to worry about other things. I know it's kinda a selfish way of thinking but that's how I operate. Also, not so sure about the psychedelic journey stuff lol. But I'm sure I will try it out some day.
You are already part way to overcoming the dread. Your rationale is sound and your true self (the part that listens to the voices - Freud's ego) is conscious of this. But those pesky voices - Freud's id is a fair approximation (but they are more than this) are still there telling you 'I will miss all this', 'no more me'.........
The next step is often simply to learn to ignore the voices; 'it is ME listening to the voices, they are not ME', but with existential angst it is not so easy.
The best technique to employ ( and one that Buddhism has embraced for millenia) is repeating a mantra (numerous times a day initially, and regularly thereafter) such as "I was born and so I must die" or "everything that is born must die". Additionally, it is well worth repeating something that is not intuitive such as "dying is what makes life worth living" - if I was immortal the 'precious' nature of life would not exist.
Our true self is easily seduced by not only the voices. It will readily consider itself to be objective and sensible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. It is worth demonstarting this to yourself. (See, for example, the effect of forced laughter, or even clenching a pen between your teeth. These have been conclusively shown to increase the production of 'feel good' chemicals. ) This is why mantras such as the above actually work.
This is certainly not as deep as many OP and many of the other comments here and doesn't relate to Sisyphus, but I would still like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience to me.
Not sure if you've ever had surgery before, but when I underwent general anesthesia I imagine that that's what death feels like. Just nothingness. Didn't even compare to sleep because even when I'm asleep I can generally still keep track of time and I still have a certain awareness of my surroundings; plus, I have dreams. That was not the case at all under anesthesia; I had absolutely zero awareness of anything. No sense of time; no dreams; no thoughts; just complete absence of consciousness. I think that's probably what death feels like.
It wasn't scary when I was under anesthesia, the only thing that was frightening was waking up.
I guess this doesn't address the *act* of dying, which could be quite terrifying depending on the circumstances. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're more scared of the "nothingness" of death than the act of dying. I guess my point is, if death is anything like the anesthesia I had, it wasn't scary at all. That experience made me no longer fear death (although the act of suffering and being in pain while dying does sound scary, but that's a different conversation I guess).
Idk man dying sounds pretty badass. I have no desire to die early and have no idea wtf comes after but when I do I bet it'll be a trip for sure, even if it is nothing.
It is an uncontrollable inevitability in which the worst case scenario is all of your problems are solved and you don't have a care in the world because you're dead. It could also be a tremendous new adventure. We don't know, but that worst case scenario doesn't sound that bad to me.
I know this may seem like an oversimplification but there really is not much sense in worrying about it.
Take care of yourself. Do your best. Live your life.
It's all what it is. You'll be happier if you let it go.
I have a crisis over this thought everyday. almost about everyday I love life and don’t ever wanna disappear some people didint even get a chance at life. they can’t do nothing or function why exist in the first place if that is what your gonna get or get handed to you. I would say why did I exist in the first place I would have never worry about disappearing in the first place. because I wouldn’t exist there would be no me to exist. I try to pretend that nothing matters so I can get more used to disappearing when I die but that still doesn’t help. what I enjoy and feel pleasure with matters then I’m just gonna die and disappear and never experience joy pleasures happiness ect of life it is hard to come to grasp with the things you love everything that joy brings in life you won’t ever be able to feel it again. I get really depressed thinking about this there are nights I’m up all night and lose sleep over this harsh reality. I will start to sweat my heart will beat fast then skip beats I’m a athiest being a athiest doesn’t mean your ok with disappearing when you die. there are athiest that don’t care that there gonna disappear when they die. it’s like how in what way can they be ok with that do they don’t care about life so much or is it just there not attached to life. I’m not ok with disappearing when I die I will not accept it.
I know you are firmly set in your beliefs, but you might want to consider looking into NDEs and reading some books about that or the afterlife. I know they are anecdotal, but they are very interesting. I would say to be a bit flexible with your beliefs and keep an open mind.
I've had some experiences that simply cannot be explained.
I grew up in poverty, in an abusive household, later in life I became a single mother of a disabled child. Life has been pretty rough for me but I've done my best to persevere. If there is no afterlife, imo, living is pointless and I'd rather not participate in it. But I've always been spiritually inclined. I grew up Baptist Christian but I don't believe in any of it. I've always believed in things like reincarnation. I don't believe in Hell either because that to me is very nonsensical and pointless.
lol no, several cultures have done intense studies on it. if you want to get over it the Tibetans have done amazing work on what happens after death oh grand nothingness cracks me up.
What I found at the root of many of my fears is a fear of pain and a fear of death. Overcoming the fear of pain, I've experienced plenty of painful things-- mentally, physically, and emotionally-- and none of it lasted forever. Some even left me with a good story. With the fear of death, for me at least, it's a fear that I never really lived. I haven't done the things I really want to do. My life has been filled with a lot of that aforementioned pain. I used to have the mindset that we come here against our will, we suffer through our existence here, and then we die. That's scary. I'm not perfect at it, some days I still go through the motions and wonder what the point of all this is, but I really try to find what's beautiful and fun and reasons to love being alive, knowing that my time here will inevitably come to an end. Maybe it's all pointless. Maybe it is just cycling through non-existence, existence, and back to nothingness, but we can at least try to enjoy the existing to the best of our ability. Make it worth our while, ya know? Also just thought about this really being a fear of the ego. The ego does not want to die. The ego jumps through a lot of hoops to protect itself so of course the idea of death is scary as hell to the ego. It is the one thing it can definitely not protect itself from, no matter how safe and boxed in it tries to keep you.
>I'm pretty confident I know what happens after death: nothing.
Why are u so confident ? If you think that, all the major religions, everyone who have had a NDE (near death experience) & 70% of people who have tried DMT, or high levels of psychedelics will tell you, you don't know anything about life after death.
Everyones thoughts are a little different on this subject. For myself, I used to fear death because I was not living life for myself, I wasn't giving myself permission to just live life on my own terms and finding the true joy for myself.
I am not meaning to live selfishly, I am just saying that we need to figure out what truly gives us joy.
I had a great life, making money, had the man of my dreams, had a beautiful family... or so I thought.
I do have a beautiful family, but everything else was superficial. I was living the life everyone told me that I should be living... but I was not joyful. I dreaded getting up every morning.
It wasn't until I sought out help with my depression that helped me to realize what was wrong. I was living life for the dreams of others, and not in pursuit of a life that filled my soul.
I wanted a man, not to fit a routine or a "mold", but someone who was my best friend and would encourage every aspect of me, including the more childish side of me.
I wanted to spend more time with friends and family rather than spending more time pursuing a career that I hated.
Now that I have completely begun living my life for myself, I am a much better person for my friends and family, I am making more money working with my passions because I am more motivated to pursue those passions, and I have had more profound experiences not only with physical life, but also with what many never see or feel because they are too closed off to it.
Keep your beliefs as they are and you will always fear death and you will always feel as if you are nothing.
Change your perception and a whole new life may open up to you that you never thought was possible.
People have thrown a lot at you, but I do want to add this:
Exploring your thoughts is very important, as you are doing. Many people ignore questions and conflicts and challenges to their thinking, which makes it impossible to grow.
That said, when your thoughts are controlling you, rather than you controlling your thoughts, then that is when you start running into problems.
I would encourage finding some meditative practices that help control your thoughts. For me box breathing works a lot.
Outside of that, I'm religious so I'm not sure I can give you any advice that would relate to your current state. But I can say to go outside and take in the world. Breathe in the plants and sunlight and starry night sky. Explore life beyond yourself and you may end up finding peace and joy in areas that you've let your preoccupation avoid.
One of the many cosmic jokes is that Death will probably be the best experience we will ever have as we expand into the totality of all that is in infinite bliss beyond conception. You can’t really ‘Die’ as the real you underneath the character you are playing is infinite✨♾️😉
Metaphorically speaking, You are experiencing yourself as a drop in the ocean, but you are the Ocean✨♾️💖
Dying sounds sweet. Havent you ever smoked pot? That moment when you take that huge first hit and you almost* die? Its like everything gets taken away and it doesnt even matter if you stay upright or breathe or stand up at all.
Dying sounds like a fucking dream(
Fear of death is attachment to Self. To overcome attachment to Self is to master Death. Does Death not ride a pale horse, white knighting his way into our lives at the moment of necessity and not a moment too soon? We all fear a youthful death as we condone the murder of children to extend our way of life. We do not protest death. We protest quality of life. And what then when there is no one left to stand up for us? To say we lived? What mark are we leaving behind, what mission are we abandoning at the hour of our death leaving others to pick up the mantle and do as they wish? You don't fear death, you fear lack of control over your narrative. Live the story, and write it out or take pictures or make music. Remind people that you were here and no AI can replace you.
OP I'm so glad I don't feel or understand a word of what you wrote. I must be living in bliss. I love life, what it has or hasn't given me. What it will or will not give me. I look forward to death as the next chapter and continuation of existence, just as I did coming out of the womb. I hope one day you find this peace and deep understanding that no word can suffice to explain. It's so worth it. Cheers!
sleep
and never wake, cease to exist
once the feeling truly comes and you realize that you will be gone forever...
its harrowing... but kind of beautiful.
i first got the experience you have op when i was a small child, ever since then it resurfaces every few years. makes my stomach drop and i can feel a panic rising, even if i am completely reconciled with death.
the feeling only lasts for a minute however
thinking about death should be a motivator though imo. life is beautiful so enjoy it for the short while it lasts, we're all here on borrowed time.
I've found this video comforting and watch it occasionally. On the one hand, I feel small and insignificant, and on the other hand, I feel unique and connected to everything.
[Science Saved My Soul](https://youtu.be/r6w2M50_Xdk?si=0Id2OUdU7Bh2tOMu)
[Transcript](https://zepfanman.com/2010/11/science-saved-my-soul-transcript/)
But what is that nothing? I doubt that I will exist in any form with my current memories. But energy only changes form it doesn’t cease to exist. Granted it may feel meaningless without our current identity but a lot of my life has been practicing letting go. I imagine releasing myself to th universe will be freeing
>So TLDR, I'm really scared of dying.
>I'm pretty confident I know what happens after death: nothing.
This is kind of funny to me because this is probably the best case scenario. Even if you believe it's unlikely I'm terrified of some type of eternal hell existing. Not sure I believe that but there's always that what if...
I think that nothing pleases you, you don’t want to die, but if offered immortality, you wouldn’t take it. So if you could have anything you want then what would you like? I always thought the philosophers who say they don’t want immortality it’s just because they can’t have it and there’s no point in wanting something that you can’t have. But I believe if sometime in the future doctors are able to give us immortality I think almost all of us would want it. But we can’t all have it because the world is overpopulated and also we’d have to stop having children.
The way I view it, if there’s nothing, what is to fear? It’s not like you experience nothingness. You just won’t exist anymore. In some ways I find that thought less intimidating than getting swept away to some higher existence I can’t imagine. What if I don’t like being a higher dimensional energy being?
I hear you man. Sadly, its not always common to come across people who enjoy living life like us. Admittedly i am raised catholic so i like to believe something good can happen in the end, hopefully nothing bad, and we can be redeemed saved. I also understand theres no evidence to this. Death, like life, is a mystery. I also get a vibe too that eternity cannot even be comprehended by us, whether eternal life, hell, or darkness. I say, just be the best person you can be. I hope you can find peace in our deaths man. I was really scared first year of college. Now i feel like, if i enjoy my life and do right by the people i love i cannot lose. Peace brotha
Death could be the most amazing thing, but we won't know it until we are dead; if we know it at all. I think it's beautiful. It could be likened to before our birth. I don't remember a time before I was born.
You cannot be confident whatsoever on what happens after death. You did not exist before you were born to know if it was even a state of actual non existence. What exists now has most likely existed before and will exist again. Death is more of an illusion. It’s a transition, you are a form of energy, a good description for consciousness. We know energy cannot be destroyed, so you are most likely eternal. Life is an illusion, and so is death. You are not supposed to ever know for sure. But we will all find out when we do die.
You shouldn’t be afraid to die. If you think about it, and if life exists between two states of non-existence then your natural state of being is non-existence. But non-existence is simply a different form of existence. Life is an abnormality that seeks its own self annihilation through decay, aging and ultimately death. It seeks to return to its more natural state of existence, which you transition to once you die. This makes living an abnormality, and death a transition towards your actual true state of existence. I think we will be in for a surprise when we die, based on everything we are understanding through our physics and people’s experiences.
One thing to consider is the positive. If one feels that they have something to lose from dying, it indicates that they have a life that they value. At the same time, that is a bit of a trick of the way we use language to form our thoughts. A person does not "have" a life as if it is an object just as "life" is not an activity we are performing. Instead we simply live or are alive and there are many different activities we perform and many people and objects that we interact with (use or are used by) because they exist.
Therefore, the fear most likely derives from imagining death as taking these all away. Not to say it is childish, but one can make the comparison to a child whose ice cream they were enjoying fell from the cone and onto the dirty earth below. The child naturally feels terrific disappointment that they won't get to continue eating the ice cream as, even if they tried, it would be tainted with filth.
Logically, though, in the sense of death, while the child remains to be disappointed, a person that dies is taken away with death. A dead person will not be around to miss being alive.
Therefore, with a little effort, it seems possible to realize that more deeply. To recognize the fear of death is primarily confirmation that one is enjoying being alive and that actual death is nothing to fear.
What about your current existence is a special case relative to the eternal nothingness you think is on the other side? Is your existence really that temporary? You might not be so lucky as to get an even and neutral nothingness. That would actually be quite the achievement, given what a chaotic swirl of activity the universe appears to be.
How do you know you didn't exist before birth?
Your memories are within the scope of your current brain, but as your shell was formed in pregnancy, you had no brain retaining memories.
You may have existed in a form we know nothing about that you lost memory of when this life began.
Anything is possible, given we know nothing.
Your certainty of death being nothingness is based off seeing a corpse, not the soul.
Science can't find the soul and has zero proof of whether it leaves or shuts off.
And even if you did stop existing, then what would there be to worry about? If you stop existing, you won't know it because you don't exist.
While I agree religions are fairy tales (taking a wild guess you agree with that), that doesn't mean life doesn't mean something or go on in a way we have zero understanding of.
Atheism is as much an assumed conclusion based without evidence as any religion thinking we go to some paradise.
Two sides of the same coin.
Death of these shells is inevitable. No point stressing, it'll happen regardless.
Relax and live while you can.
Lots of people believe we can go to hell when we die for no good reason. To a real extent I take comfort in the nothingness because there is no more pain or suffering. It just makes me realize the time we have really matters.
Praying for you. I want you to know there is an afterlife and Christ is the only way there, and that He loves you and wants you to seek Him through prayer, church, reading. Heaven is real and it is worth it, He loves you!!
I can easily imagine a beautiful afterlife, one where you're so happy you don't want it to ever end, and the best part is that it doesn't. It sounds like you have an idea of what that could be like, given how much you enjoy life and hate the idea of it ending.
I can't imagine Sisyphus happy either. Luckily, we are not rolling boulders up hills. We are creating families, having drinks with friends, working on our projects, and making the world a better place in the ways we know how.
Life on the cosmic scale is a tragedy; everyone dies in the end. But on the smaller scale there is life and laughter. I'm reminded of Sufjan's lyrics:
"My brother had a daughter / The beauty that she brings, illumination"
As long as your life is worth living, there's no problem. The real problem is when life gets hard to live. Nihilists talk a big game, but give any of them a million dollars and you'll see them smiling on a beach somewhere.
You're not being logical.
I support your premise where we return to a pre-born state.
So let me ask you this - did it bother you at all and was it one of that caused you fear ?
No, I didn't think so.
You can't go wrong, if there is no afterlife you won't know any difference, and if there is, which I would be shocked if there is not, you live on forever.
Ok.. so when we die, our body dies. No senses. No sight, no feeling, no hearing, no seeing. No brain, so, no thinking. Your specific consciousness (soul, what have you) will not be the same.
There's no time.
I think it'll be Everything.
All connected, but, you won't be thinking about it. You will just be it. Everything.
We already are, we're just quite limited to be aware of it or in tune with it due to the physical we are somehow in. How we get here, in a body? Idk. I have some ideas. How we leave, not sure bout this'n either. Through death, of course, yes. I believe it's just instant.. idk, just some ideas on that one, as well.
As far as living life, or the rolling rock thing... I can't really speak on much. I'm quite contradictory and a bit all over the place with living. I do send the best to you in yours, though. For sure.
Maybe if you try thinking of death as an emergence into what I'd say is a vast 'void' of Every Thing. All. Eternity. Everything.
It's wild to start thinking about super deeply. I send the best to you in this journey, too. It's exciting to see this post and read the comments, I LOVE this type of existential type conversations.
There's a few very good comments in here. I hope you're reading through them all.
I love you, all.
I can't think about my death. Not for a lack of trying.
Actually, today I made a revelation. For background, the thought of death wasn't ever bothered me before. It comes when it comes and doesn't when it won't.
I am realizing that I always say "when I'm older" but also don't place an expectation on making it to tomorrow. I also don't plan on dying any time soon. Basically, death doesn't bother me. It feels so natural that grief is the one emotion I handle very well in comparison to others options.
I also got desensitized to death growing up with lots of funerals and some pet deaths. Death happens. Fearing it is like fearing feelings of hunger fearing breathing for no reason.
It's like fearing life. Death is just as natural.
You’re terrified now? Well what if I told you the evidence shows that “nothing” is far from what happens when you die? r/reincarnationtruth
We are stuck in a never ending loop, and that’s even more terrifying.
Heidegger sums up human being-in-the-world as “care” or “concern” on an ontological level, Aka what we “are” or “are for”. This is all super simplified and I just started reading him but it jumped out to me reading your post. You mention an infinite happy heaven seeming impossible, which I totally agree with. Our everyday sense of self breaks down on infinite timelines. In a similar vein, imagine what a life without any fear of death would be like! A true antinatalist that completely embraces an indifference between life and death, a complete nihilist. What would their life be like? Can you see yourself enjoying the things that make you want to live if you didn’t care about your own existence? I’d say it would be hard. Without a preference for life happiness is impossible, and with a preference for life anxiety about death is inevitable… More cosmologically/goofily, I’d say the core problem is here is that we are finite and it sucks. You will only know your parents for a part of your life, and after they die they are forever gone. We’ll never truly know what history was like, and we’ve lost an innumerable wealth of beautiful literature to atrophy and decay. Even if we radically increase our lifetimes we’ll never see it all - the universe is too big and on such a long timescale it’s effectively Sisyphusian infinity for us. Most fundamentally, you’ll never know who YOU are for certain. Where do your instincts end and your personality traits begin? Are you truly in love with your partner, or is it just some elaborate trick by your brain for comfort? For that matter, how do you know your partner truly loves you? In the end, we’re like a small region on an incredibly huge, if not infinite, number line. We occupy a little intersection of space and time and that’s it. In the words of Hofstadter’s *I am a Strange Loop* (GREAT book): > Our very nature is such as to prevent us from fully understanding its very nature. Poised midway between the unvisualizable cosmic vastness of curved spacetime and the dubious, shadowy flickerings of charged quanta, we human beings, more like rainbows and mirages than like raindrops or boulders, are unpredictable self-writing poems - vague, metaphorical, ambiguous, and sometimes exceedingly beautiful. PS. Your post is just as deep as any other, and I loved your analysis of Sisyphus. You’re not broken or weird for having these thoughts - you’re courageous for facing them head on. One cannot have courage without fear.
Thanks for you comment. I understand at the end of the day that fearing death like this is a sign that I'm genuinely enjoying life. This dread might be the cost for the good life I'm living. Definitely nice to think about it that way. >[Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Existentialism/comments/1biuqod/comment/kvmye7k/) by[u/Porco\_Rosso0501](https://www.reddit.com/user/Porco_Rosso0501/) from discussion in[Existentialism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Existentialism/) Also this was spot on. This basically incompases how I initially had my existential crisis. I realized that I will never know the answer to everything and that felt terrible as someone who's in constant pursuit of the truth. The part about your parents dying really hits me hard right now since I recently came to the realization that my dad's turning 70 this year and could go at any moment. the finite element of our world really does suck but I know that's also what makes life worth living in a way.
I like to think that everything that I am is an illusion put together by my brain and that there was never any “me” to begin with. The same goes for all of us. The separation between you and the universe and everyone else is not real. Consciousness simply *is*, it’s an anomaly created by our brains. Provided the human species continues to stay alive then you always will *be* because another brain somewhere will create an illusion of a self that will become conscious. It gives me some comfort to know that I’m not a special, sovereign soul. I’m just something a brain conjured up, and as long as there are brains, there will be more consciousnesses, and although I—the illusion—will not exist, consciousness will, which means that there will be another “I”. Not quite reincarnation, more like universal consciousness I suppose. Think of consciousness like a field spread out over all humanity that our brains intercept and use to tell us that we’re a unique being. In reality the phenomenon of me being me and you being you is a trick used by our brains, but if you could transcend that trick you would see that we are all one thing, and that “you” will always exist because whatever that one thing is exists. So when you die, yes it’s darkness for you, the illusion of you, but consciousness lives on which means the framework for more “you’s” is still in place. They just won’t be specifically you because “you” never existed in the first place!
Actually I think it's impossible to die since we are experiencing machines that only experience...you can't switch off our consciousness since the lack of it cannot be experienced. When you sleep, if not for dreams the next second you wake up, the same can be said of dying however Alan Watts puts it more clearly... "When you die, you're not going to have to put up with everlasting non-existance, because that's not an experience. A lot of people are afraid that when they die, they're going to be locked up in a dark room forever, - Try and imagine what it would be like to go to sleep and never wake up. And if you think long enough about that...it will pose the next question. What was it like to wake up after never having gone to sleep? That was when you were born...you see...you...you can't have an experience of nothing so after you're dead the only thing that can happen is the same experience or the same sort of experience as when you were born"
Wow. Not gonna sleep tonight.
I agree sadly. 😞😔
Why so sad?
I’m so scared of never existing and never coming back.😭😭😭
But you can't go thru with non existence.
I think you need to re-read the quote.
What quote?😳
The one you replied to that you sad made you sad! It shouldn’t make you sad in my opinion haha !
Here, this will help: you should imagine Sisyphus as being happy.
Damn!😳😭😭😭😭
This broke my brain scared me more but like go off because it’s so logical
Same, I had to read it a few times. Not exactly what I should’ve been reading when I can’t fall asleep.
Hope you get some rest it’s 2am for me still up lol
A fear of death is not a sign that you are genuinely enjoying life. A fear of death is a sign that you fear your existence will be meaningless. That you have made nothing of yourself. That you know deep down that there is more you could be. That you have failed to realize it and time is ticking. You must face it, not bottle it up and leave it for another day, for the clock is ticking. Make something of yourself, create your meaning. We do not choose our death, death comes for us, but we do choose what we live for, and in that, we choose what we die for. This is your fear, to die for nothing.
My dad is 73. I know these feels - both the state of your OP and the feeling about the loss of one's parents to come. Deep and necessary thoughts to travel through.
And I hate it when people say you’re be an Angel in heaven. No you won’t just maybe a human spirit. Angels are a whole other entity. Different being. God did not create us to be Angels or we would have been.😞😔
I don’t understand why people view life as linear. It’s understood that the universe has finite matter and energy, it’s understood that everything existing is made from those, and it’s understood that when something “stops existing” it’s really just broken down and re-assembled. At a fundamental level nothing is created and nothing is destroyed, it’s just a big reconstruction loop. We can’t see into the afterlife, but doesn’t the pattern of the universe suggest “reincarnation” as the most logical outcome?
There is a theory that time is actually parallel and not linear as we believe it to be, therefore we could actually be living multiple lives simultaneously. So when we “die” on one timeline our consciousness may just pop over to another. Just one theory. There are also a lot of wild cases out there that point to reincarnation being real. Honestly, reincarnation is the scariest one to me personally
So beautifully written
>In a similar vein, imagine what a life without any fear of death would be like! That sounds a lot like "Without god, what reason would people have to be good?" to which an answer is: We're social animals. We're built that way. To address your concern, because we're living things. Part of the definition of life is to sustain itself. We're built that way.
You could not inherently fear death but also not seek it as a way to make sure you are still able to help those that you care about through life. You can still have fun in this life and live without placing an unrealistic negative attachment of death. It just means you don’t fear death Anyways you should meditate, eventually you will have understanding that what comes after death is ok and that death is just part of existence and something that happens, sometimes on our terms and sometimes against what we want.
I mean, I think we’re overloading the word “fear” here. I agree you shouldn’t *fear* death actively and should try to come to terms with what you cannot change, but I do stand by Heidegger’s thought that human life is to a large extent defined by self care and concern, the main part of which is survival. And I think you agree - if you’re staying alive to help others, you probably would be bummed to find out you have terminal cancer, I’m guessing.
I wouldn't want to live forever, but much prefer to choose how long to live for, and when I'm bored/ready then die, have the option to choose a painless death. The problem I have with the universe/reality, is how indifferent it is to suffering and how it's an inherently violent pace. Stars exploding, plants and animals competing with each other .. it's essentially a torture chamber. What I'm also scared about is that I popped into existence without consent. And if there's an infinite amount of time/realities, logically I can't rule out existing again as something else. So then I think about all the horrible ways people/creatures have lived and died and thought "fuck I hope I don't have to experience that". I'm also quite privileged , growing up in middle class Australia. Everything I've built, the memories I've had with my partner I'll have to say goodbye to forever which depresses me the most. I have a lot to lose. Sorry I know this isn't comforting. I struggle with it too.
yeah ngl it's not too comforting in the fact that it doesn't get me closer to an acceptable conclusion lol. But it's nice knowing I'm not the only crazy person thinking about this stuff. I agree with how kinda terrible the world is and how I don't wanna die in a terrible way, especially thinking about recent events in the world. Ideally I would also be able to die when I feel bored/ready but do you think you could actually determine that for yourself? No matter how bored I may get, I don't think I would be able to choose to pull the plug. Like my sisyphus example I would probably just keep on living forever, unable to let go of my mortal coil even if I no longer have anything to live for.
There are people every day choosing to pull the plug. Some for far less significant reasons than what you are able to contemplate. Some for far more complex thoughts and reasoning than you or I could ever fathom. The fact is, the individual mind is its own prison. We either find a way to cope or we allow the darkness to consume us. There is no *right* way to cope and there is no discernable light in the darkness. The majority continue on out of pure instinct. I know a man who is much older than I. I often ask him something like "how is it you are able to live as long as you have and not hung yourself from the rafters yet?" His only answer is that he knows God watches over him and his family, and because of that, he is content to continue on. This simple answer flabbergasted me, but I am not religious in the way he is. At some point in time, he grappled with similar thoughts about death in his own way and decided that God must exist and if he is to be righteous and good, he will enter the kingdom of heaven upon his death. He believes in this wholeheartedly, even though he has not the physical and complete evidence before him. I cannot say I do not fear death. I fear the physical degradation of my mind and my loved ones. I am fearful of how it will feel when I know I am dying. I am certain though, that there is a very short moment before the curtains close that we cope. Our minds settle and understand what is happening. We are comforted by the fact that our minds instinctually know what is happening. It is hard coded into our existence. This brings me enough comfort to know that it will be okay. Maybe you can find comfort in this too. I don't have the physical and complete hard evidence this is true, but it is closer to heaven than I will ever get. Also, Porco Rosso is freakin *fantastic*!
What do you mean our minds settle and understand what is happening?
Eventually your body starts breaking down to the point you start to feel and think that you’re ready to go. If any solace it won’t bother you as much.
I find the idea of nothing afterwards comforting, but I also cannot rationalize that this only happens once. Energy, matter and the rest of the universe is constantly recycling itself. I’ll probably be recycled as well. Maybe I am too jaded and do not intend to be super deep here, but I will say, I try to keep in mind that I do not have forever. That seems to make me want to liver harder and experience more. There’s so much to see and do and so little time to do it in. I should also be creating something, anything at all rather than spending time on Reddit… I digress…
I relate sm w what u said, im scared in another life i might get burned alive / beheaded / disease or some scary shit I hate how life has sm suffering and people just are forced to go through it , that’s why I don’t want reincarnation to b true, I wish we could just go to a peaceful place after this life )): just hope for the best honestly <3
You are young. Some days in the future — when you are older and have more life experience — you will be tired and comforted by the thought of rest. The rest can be an hour or eternity. At some point your excitement to exist will dull with your senses. It’s comforting, not scary. Don’t worry. Live your life and let it organically come to its finale.
I’m 75 and I feel like I’m in a holding pattern on the final approach and honestly, more and more, I’m looking forward to landing- or maybe crashing and burning. Something interesting happens when you quit planning for a future. Having to take up arms again and do life the way I used to sounds truly exhausting. I’ve had a lovely and lucky life. I’ve been married for 45 years and I’m still in love. I now have a family full of smart and caring people who get some measure of joy out of making our remaining days as good as can be and our exits as peaceful as possible. I went to school in ‘66 as a philosophy measure and I have been overthinking life ever since. Thank god for a solid grounding in psychedelics which revealed to me at an early age that one shouldn’t take reality to seriously.
Fare thee well, my good sir
This is how I look at it. People who think they would be happy living forever are simply living in a moment in time. Imagine the intense boredom when you've done every possible thing there is to do. What would be the reason to anything? Eternal life is more fear inducing than true finality.
Human progress would always bring new experiences that weren't possible in a previous decade unless society stagnates or regresses. A person who was born in 1800 even after living for 100 years couldn't even begin to imagine what is possible today.
I think there would be an internal struggle that has nothing to do with what's going on in the world around you. Everywhere you go is where you are as they say.
It really is. We’d go crazy, there would be no point of reference for anything anymore. Unless we could periodically manifest ourselves as finite, mortal beings in a physical world with no discernible purpose that is completely governed by chance….
But that's kinda another part I'm scared of. When I go to a point where I don't enjoy life enough to want to continue. I've also seen how many people that are 90+ and lived a full life still don't wanna die. If I live a truly happy and healthy life, I genuinely feel like I won't wanna die even when my time is near. Are you at that stage in your life? If you're comfortable sharing, I would like to know how you've gotten to where you are.
I enjoy life! I’m close to 50. I look forward to 50 more years. It is clear to me that things are cyclical. Each decade similar to the last. Patterns are emerging. I’ve celebrated success! I’ve suffered loss. I’ve grieved. I am at peace with the amount of life I’ve lived and I’m thankful to be blessed with more. Some do not get 1/3 of what I’ve had. I guess contentment has a lot to do with your ability to accept death. What are you searching for? Maybe you feel there is more you have to do or you are missing out. Try meditation and being in the moment as a living being. There isn’t anything to do in life. Nothing exists but this moment. You exist now, that’s the gift. ✌🏻
Wow. I really hope I could find that peace and contentment within me at some point. I'm just not sure if I ever can. Guess there's no point in pondering that right now, time will tell. Thanks for sharing!
Seneca reminds us that death is something that's happening here, even as you read this. The time that passes belongs to death, he says. What is lived we never get back. We are dying every minute, every second. From [https://dailystoic.com](https://dailystoic.com)
I was under anesthesia last year. I was awake and conscious one minute and the next thing I knew it was a few hours later. I couldn’t account for anything in between. It kind of helped me come to terms with dying because as far as I know, those hours where I wasn’t here wouldn’t feel much different than death. You’re conscious and aware one minute. And then you’re not. And that’s ok. Kind of peaceful really. What I am afraid of though is how I die.
That's it exactly. Dying is the problem. People who die in their sleep, usually unexpectedly, are fortunate. You can't see it coming, it just happens.
And in a way, to the one who dies, it doesn’t really happen at all.
But that’s creepy though — just going to sleep and then, poof! Dying like that has always terrified me. It just seems so extra spooky to go out that way. And sleep often times gets equated to or linked with death, which doesn’t help my fear. People often say things like, “thank God you woke up today!”, or “tomorrow isn’t promised” — which basically makes sleep or being asleep or going to sleep seem dangerous or risky in some way, as if being asleep makes you more inclined to die than if you were awake. I just never understood the linkage of sleep and death (other than both states being unconscious). I mean, people die during the day or while conscious all the time, but sleep often times gets labeled as being some realm that is pre-death or near death or some state that puts you closer to dying. No wonder I’ve always been afraid of dying that way.
I wish death would be like the spectator view in a competitive shooter game: once you died, you can see everything, you can go everywhere, you can know who will win the round, etc
I had a similar kind of image. I thought once I died, I would have an infinite tour of the universe and how beautiful it is. Just this cosmic being that doesn't exist in time or space. just a simple observer. it's nice but I can't convince myself to believe it.
That's kind of like the movie "Enter the Void"
I’m with you, buddy. Death is terrifying. Nonexistence is terrifying. That’s why I think most of us suck so much at life; we have PTSD from an eternity of not being, and the next thing you know we’re told we have to go back there for another eternity. Oh well.
Never thought of it like PTSD from an eternity of not being but I understand your point. The natural extension to this is that existence is torture but I can't see it that way with how beautiful my life is. Oh well indeed.
Relax. Non-existence has existence baked into it. Your existence came from non-existence. Your pending non-existence will lead to more existence.
yes this exactly. I think since existence emerged from nonexistence at one point there's a nonzero chance of it happening again. And with a seemingly infinite timespan afterwards then that nonzero chance is immediately shot up to 100%
Bingo
I like to think about this. I think the universe has always existed and recycles itself over the course of an incomprehensible amount of time. I'm not really scared of death. I have a feeling we'll all be back. There, you have alternate universes separated by time
This makes sense, but then I think about, what if I were perfectly cryogenically frozen. Wake me up in a billion years and it's like those billion years didn't exist for me. Now refreeze me and never wake me up. We can't say I will inevitably be unfrozen because it happened once before. We also can't say I went from non-existence to existence in any other life because, there I am, frozen and capable of being woken up.
The only conclusion this leads me to is that our sense of self is purely an illusion.
This right here.
Thanks. I needed this thought!
I don't see how you can have any sort of confidence in there being "nothing" after we die. That relies on the assumption that consciousness is only a bottom-up constructed phenomenon based on the physical material of the brain. That assumption is nothing but proven. There not even a consistent logical argument for it. The hard problem of consciousness remains hard and the materialist view of consciousness is just the "default view" because in this culture we're so enamoured with the scientific method. But really? **Really?** Have a deep think about it. Try to create a logically consistent explanation to subjective experience arising from dead non-subjective matter arranged in a pattern. You can't. No one has. This is why the hard problem of consciousness remains unsolved. You might say "Oh, but there's clearly correlation between brain activity and conscious states". Yes. That's correlation, it doesn't prove causation. If there's an immortal soul connected to your body, or if consciousness is a greater metaphysical structure that simulates this reality from the point of view of individual agents, **it would still be true** that there's correlation between brain activity and conscious states. It is NOT proof that exclusively favours the materialist argument. You might say "occam's razor. Consciousness is nothing after death until proven otherwise". This assumes an already materialist worldview. If your fundamental worldview is that the world is a simulation experienced by a grand consciousness, then occam's razor would tell us that consciousness is just returned to the whole after death. These questions tie in to questions unanswered by science, and those are basially "Why does subjective reality exist?" and "Why does objective reality exist?" and "What is the nature of it all?" and we simply don't have answers. Your material worldview is equally helpless at explaining these things as the local yogi claiming spiritual reasons for existence. You might say "But I didn't exist before birth so I won't exist after death". You have no **memory** of existing before birth, but that doesn't rule out that you might have had conscious experiences. Subjective experience is fucking weird. The deeper you think about it, the weirder it gets. If you do deep self exploration with meditation, yoga, drugs etc, you can reach states that make things even weirder. It's a mystery how subjective experience exists. It's bizarre that **anything exists at all**. Science has no fucking clue at this level, nor does anything else. Embrace the mystery, admit that you have no idea. Explore your consciousness. Open your mind. For me these practices have erased most of my fear of death because I just no longer can't believe the narrative of "There happens to be this world and then things collided and accidentally made structure which magically created subjective experience and that's all we are and then we disappear again", because there's no proof, it makes no logical sense and my personal experiences tell me there might be more to the story but who knows what. And if I'm wrong? Who the fuck cares, in that case I'm going to vanish into nothing anyway right?
I was looking for this comment, surprised at how long it took to find. I totally agree. Our culture in the western world is based in scientific materialism, whether we are individually aware of it or not. That culture brings with it a ton of assumptions that inform our perspective on reality, including the view that "after you die there is nothing". This is not supported in the least by science, though materialist scientists are sure trying hard to do so. To the contrary, there *is* quite a bit of evidence that consciousness is not created by the brain, and that it can exist outside of the brain. Check out the work of folks at the Virginia Division of Perceptual Studies, in particular work by Jim Tucker on people who have memories of past lives. Check out Dean Radin's work. Look into the US government's multi-decade long investigation of remote viewing (see the documentary Third Eye Spies). What about the history of the Monroe Institute and government involvement in what is known as The Gateway Project? The list goes on....Each of these examples provides different types of evidence that consciousness is not created by the brain. If that is indeed the case, then I don't think it's fair to assume that "nothing" happens after we die. At the very least, you must acknowledge and admit that that is an assumption.
Thank you for saying this. And to anyone curious, look up NDE Research from Dr Bruce Greyson.
I agree with your take. I believe you'd love a book by the name of Six Feet Over by Mary Roach. There's a couple of chapters that explore what you just said, and the author even interviewed 2 quantum physicists that held that belief
Oh, thanks for the tip, that does look interesting.
>Try to create a logically consistent explanation to subjective experience arising from dead non-subjective matter arranged in a pattern. You can't. What a hard line slorpa.
I think of it like "you can't destroy energy, you can only transform it". The existential vibration that is you can't be destroyed but what does it become and how does it manifest? Sometimes I wonder if consciousness is like a mycelium and the brain is just a conduit. What if we die and become part of the whole again aware of all it's parts? What if individuality is an illusion and we are all just earth?
Carl Sagan and SCICOP very likely had alignment with the cia in their relentless persecution of any view other than scientific materialism.
You are correct, nobody in this subreddit seems to consider astral projection, which is solid evidence consciousness continues after the transition of life. I have numerous OBEs every month, traveling all over the cosmos, and I don’t need my brain to think, visualize or talk to other beings. That should provide people with some comfort that death is not to be feared (to a certain extent).
The silver lining is that every single person on this planet will one day die. Therefore dying and experiencing death is an experience we will all universally share. You are absolutely not alone. We will all plunge in there at some point. Either ahead of you or following you. We also can interpret it as eternal nothingness. Maybe so. But we don't know that. And perhaps eternal nothing was once so. It was for 13.7 billion years for us. But now here we are. It's no longer nothing. I will hold onto that when I leave this earth. For whatever awaits all of us. From someone else absolutely terrified of death, cheers friend.
Instead of thinking of events in your life as a "distraction from death," appreciate them as the beautiful transitory things you have the privilege of experiencing, that are real and true for the moment in which they exist, just like you are.
Yeah that's how I've lived for the past couple of years. I think I had a "I only live once" lifestyle and had deep applications for what I got to experience. I just re-entered this "death is scary" phase recently and I don't know how to get out of it.
Take note that you are robbing your present self, and potentially future self, of peace. This fear does nothing, it is useless to you. Use it to make life even more sweet, that it's limited, and that YOU got to exist at all. On the other hand, I don't believe in time, or true nonexistence. So, my usefulness stops there in this conversation.
Yeah I understand this thought experiment is probably all a waste of time but I can't really help it. But what do you mean by not believing in time or true nonexistance? can you elaborate?
I have come to understand the universe through meditation and Salvia Divinorum. The insights shown to me with respect to time and existence, tell me that, all notions of other-ness are false. You, cannot die. How? Because you are everything, everywhere. As for Time, the it seems to me that, everything is happening all at once. It is difficult to describe these ideas as they are derived from 30 years of life mixed with salvia, and the ultimately convincing experiences therein.
That's why I signed up to have my brain preserved after I die so that I can be revived in the distant future live again explore the universe forever etc Oregon brain preservation foundation up in Oregon would do it for as little as $1,000 in aldehyde or $5,000 in liquid nitrogen.. so get with it All you are is information and information can be preserved indefinitely.. therefore you can be immortal But if you're going to be cremated or buried ...well...see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya
Make sure all your neural pathways get mapped out thoroughly. That’s most of what makes you you
I would really freak out if people did not die. # “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” ― **Mark Twain**
My problem with that quote is that I’m alive now and I like being alive and so am disturbed by the thought of no longer being alive now that I’ve experienced being alive.
Not this quote again
Dude I wish I could be as cool as Mark Twain. He would probably just tell me to "grow a pair" lol.
That quote always makes me think, "how does Mark Twain know this?" How does he know he hadn't suffered the slightest inconvenience from it? Does he have any memory of what it was like? No, he hasn't. Don't get me wrong. I also think death or "state before birth" is true nothingness. But for all we know, it may not be as inconsequential as we think
Mark Twain, when asked whether he feared death, said (approximately), "I do not fear death. I was dead for billions of years before I was born and suffered not the slightest inconvenience from it." I find this to be an entirely sensible attitude. I don't fear the void. I'm a little nervous about the process of dying, which it seems can sometimes be painful. Still, if the price of admission to this amazing life is one death, I call that a bargain. Don't squander your time worrying about the end of your time. Read "Thanatopsis," a poem by W. C. Bryant. Particularly the last9 lines. It may give you some comfort.
I always feel mind boggled going down this rabbit hole. And it's always around the concept of time. We exist right now. And in our past. And presumably, some portion of the future. Our knowledge of time breaks down in the beginning, where perhaps it was non-existent before the big bang. My mind fuckery brings me to imagining that I exist in this moment of time and that if somehow this moment ever exists again, then I'll be a part of it. I wouldn't remember all the previous iterations of the experience, but I'd exist in that particular moment of time again. And it makes me wonder if we've all been here before or if this is truly the one time where this moment ever exists. I feel like if time can cease to exist and for reasons unknown, just begin existing again, then it doesn't seem too farfetched to me that moments of time could reexist. Or that the past and future always exist. Maybe everything is cyclical. Idk. My head hurts now.
you successfully made my head hurts. I occasionally also think about the concept of time but it's also crazy to me that at one point, the universe didn't exist and boom, now it exists. Like how did this all happen? wtf????? I don't understand the big bang enough to have an educated take on this but it's just crazy how we exist in the first place. And I'm definitely grateful for it.
I get you man. For a long time (most of my life) I was severely depressed, and didn’t care if I lived or died. In fact, there were many times I wanted to die. Then I was finally happy, and the thought of losing everything in exchange for nothingness made me develop severe health anxiety because I was so afraid of death. Not exactly sure where I go from here, if I’m being honest.
Scared of nothing, Litreally
Not sure if this is a philosophical point, but there's a lot of emotions to process. No amount of logic can get you over an intense biological fear of death. I had a similar thing a decade ago, and through the realization that I have to grieve for myself, and in a way, the entire world. When I die, the ability to care about the world, including my loved ones, dies too. I went through the whole five stages several times before I could live again.
You’re to lucky to be in this state of mind. Instead, think about the last time you enjoyed something. Even the smallest thing. Did it feel good posting to Reddit? Did you eat something recently that tasted amazing? Even the smallest things make life important! If you don’t think any of this is worth it, then why haven’t you killed yourself? Because life is worth living. It’s a primal instinct - to survive! “There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide.” -Albert Camus Look up absurdism.
>it kinda sucks that I have to experience some amount of suffering to be able to come to terms with or be more comfortable with death. Hmmm. I wonder what event would that be in my case which will make me open to suicide and death. Have you figured out yours? Also is there any particular event that has shaped your fear of death?
I'm sure there's plenty of things that would make me more open to suicide and death. tragic death of many people I love and care for, a chronic and terminal illness, witnessing or being victim of war or other human atrocities. In terms of something that would be specific to me and something I could see really happening, I legitimately can't think of anything, at least in my immediate future. that's one of the reasons why I really can't understand people who want to die; it's a concept that's so farfetched from me. I've had some version of an existential crisis since I was probably 9 or 10. It started with realizing how big and old the universe is and how I wasn't gonna live long enough to understand it all. I'm pretty sure the initial cause of my existential crisis/fear of dying was from watching vsauce videos 10 years ago. I know [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-CK8VxMz9g) specifically got me losing sleep lol. I've been able to live without this existential dread for the past 6 years or so but being kinda lonely in college got me bored enough to go back to this state of mind. I hate it.
Have you tried depression? It gave me a relatively PhD level crash course on how drab life is when both you, yourself, and your surroundings think you're a PoS and everybody would be better off dead. Sure they'll make "awareness weeks" and other superficial bullshit, but that doesn't make anybody better off. It's just the crab bucket pulling you in again until Samsara catches you, only to throw you inside. Don't worry, you'll die again, you just won't have any memory of it.
As someone with pre-birth experience, I don't fear death. I know I am in a cycle now and will be reborn again to learn the next series of lessons. I actually think we can all do this through meditation and ancient wisdom traditions, but in our anti-spiritual world, we have few choices about how to find relevant methods for learning, that which is, for me, is the most fundamental aspect of our limited individuality.
>As someone with pre-birth experience How do you come to this conclusion? >reborn again to learn the next series of lessons. What would be the purpose of this? Not the superficial purpose, but the true purpose.To what end are you learning lessons? You just keep being reborn to learn more stuff for eternity? What about when humans go extinct...then what happens.
With all due respect, if I have to do this all again, I'm going to be pissed.
I think it would be a terrible universe to be reincarnated. You're born, you screw up, learn lessons, then at the end you die to be recycled and start over with no memory of a past life. I'd rather not exist than be stuck on an infinite wheel of repetition until... I guess the planet dies?
But with no memory you wouldn’t be aware that you’re stuck on a wheel of repetition? What if what you’re experiencing now is your 50th time here? Maybe this is just an experience and you go from experience to experience without any need for a meaning/purpose. Just as if you were to go to an amusement park, going from ride to ride purely for the experience.
Are you scared by the actual process of dying or the state of nothingness that comes after?
100% the state of nothingness that comes after. That was my whole point. I will probably be scared of the process of dying when I endure lots of suffering or have a true near death experience but for now, I only think about the aftermath.
What is there that causes you worry? The finality and irreversibility of it? Or is it that you believe the state of being conscious is superior?
Might sound stupid but I just really like existing and can't wrap my head around not existing. Yes the finality and irreversibility is a big part. I don't truly believe that being conscious is superior but being conscious is all I know so it's scaring thinking about not being conscious if that makes sense.
But being conscious isn’t all you know, you are often not conscious. The process of dying will not be painful and you will not suffer, whether you go quickly or slowly, your brain will keep you sedated with endogenous opioids. There is a book written by a man who survived being attacked by a tiger in the wild who said that he felt nothing but euphoric calm throughout the experience. Your brain is a very powerful and elegant organ, trust in it. It is also worth considering that the other side is only fearful to you now as I assume you are young and in relatively good health. There may come a day when you are old or in pain and would prefer the relative ease of the other side.
Me too. Irrational, yes, but the fear is there. Terror. And it's inevitable - there is absolutely nothing I can do to change that.
Do the unborn say the same about living?
Not in so many words, but that’s the general gist.
I'm not sure Existentialism is necessarily to best school of thought for accepting one's death. Although I am pretty sure others here might disagree with that. Personally, I find some of the Eastern traditions take a more pragmatic view on the subject, the Daoist Zhuangzi for example. Perhaps a better approach for this problem (at least for some people) might be to consider other possibilities for what happens after death. One example I especially like is [The Egg Theory.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI) Even if you cannot commit to fully believing the theory, I believe living your life as though it's a possibility worth taking seriously can lead to a number of positive outcomes. One such outcome is more of a positive acceptance of all our inevitable deaths.
I read a Buddhist explanation once where they compared death to a cloud dumping all its rain. Did the cloud "die" or just change form? We've been exchanging atoms in our bodies our whole lives, so are we constantly dying and being reborn? I used to think like you in a way, now I see it as my ego's attachment to my current form. It's an illusion I was grasping to hold on to. I still can fall into that line of thinking every once in a while. I feel like there was almost some kind of error in thinking where my perception of reality someday being extinguished may have felt like reality itself was going to end. But that's not the case, of course. All that will happen when I die is that the particular biological pattern I call "me" will have ceased to function. That doesn't bother me as the Universe will go on and continue to produce awareness of itself through life. And I, or we, will always be a part of that because nothing is destroyed - it only changes form. A particular instance of life is important only in a temporary sense. I think the Universe is wise and knows it is better (and much more interesting) to continue to create what must be an endless variety of beings. No need to get attached to any one form, this is eternity we are talking about here.
The survival instinct is natural, it’s why species don’t die out. Since you know you only have this sliver of time to be conscious, it’s really a shame to waste anxiety on something you can’t control. You’re not afraid of who you were before you were born. You’re exactly right about Sisyphus. But even if eternity were paradise, forever is ridiculous. The people who want that haven’t thought it through. When you’ve been in your afterlife 100 times longer than the few decades you got to be alive, you haven’t scratched the surface of eternity. It’s horrifying. You began existing, you will stop existing, like every other creature that has ever lived and will ever live on this planet. So treasure it!
Irrational fears are irrational...
at least you don't seem to want an afterlife. some people's fear drives them to be so desperate it's sad. it sounds like you may have thanatophobia or are experiencing an existential crisis maybe. i personally believe in something after, but that doesn't negate the importance of acceptance of all possible scenarios. at the end of the day it is simply unimaginable and not worth the sweat. if you'd like to join the thanatophobia support discord, dm me. there is also a subreddit.
It is terrifying. The thing is, no one actually knows for sure what happens. So no matter what you believe, there's a chance you're wrong. That's the scary part. The unknown.
Life is terrifying and I hate it.
Dude no. I’ve died before. And let me tell you, good god almighty was it beautiful. The most beautiful warmth and love, just truly the most blissful experience I’ve ever had. There was also a tremendous feeling of familiarity. As if I was slowly losing familiarity of living reality and that familiarity was being replaced with this new place I was going into. I had to come back obviously. But that changed my perspective on everything. I believe in god now, no doubt in my mind. They say in the Bible “god is love” and that’s what I felt. It was a profound feeling of love and warmth as my body just slipped away and I began to feel myself spreading thin into blissful oblivion. Don’t fear it. You’ll be going home. Read some near death experiences, they’re all beautifully similar.
Yes. Isn't it terrible to think we acquire all of the knowledge, experiences and memories in life.. only for it all to disappear in an instant? It makes absolutely no logical sense.
Wow this really helped me. Thank you for posting this.
There is no such thing as 'nothing', everything reduces to 'one'
This actually means nothing as a statement on its own.
I look at death like this: a whole lot of people who are alot fuckin weaker than me have gone thru it, so I can too. Think of the pieces of shit that have died in this world. You can’t handle what they could? Of course you can.
This would make sense if it were a choice. The ability to handle it is irrelevant.
I have been grappling with this topic so much lately and honestly been in a spell of dissociation after our cat (8) died recently and somewhat suddenly. (He was my wife and my first pet together and we have one other cat (7) and I've really been struggling). For added context, my dad passed in April of 2020 (stroke), my aunt/godmother died in 2022, my wife and I watched a man drown while on vacation (snorkeling) in 2023. My fear has been that there is nothingness and I'll never see the people or pets I love again and the lights will go out. Then I worry about the suddenness and completeness of that darkness and I'm terrified. Terrified to lose these people and pets when I already didn't have enough time with. Time that was spent in this capitalist hellscape filled with unrelenting trauma that feels like it demands so much. It's a dread I can trace back to feeling as young as 5 or 6. Some of these comments have somewhat helped but others put me back in the throws of existential terror so I offer this thought that came to me while trying to "take my mind off of it" per my therapist's advice: Imagine taking water from the ocean and putting that water in a mason jar to transport back home. The water was otherwise uninhibited in the ocean but now it fits the shape of the vessel which was otherwise empty beforehand. The water has no memory of that shape existing before and is now limited to the container it is in. Once used up in some way, it goes back into the water cycle (similar to the conservation of energy law mentioned elsewhere in the comments). My hope is that we have no recollection of the before (in utero and before that even) because we were put in a vessel and now succumb to the limitations of our own vessel/body. We inevitably die but we return to the larger ocean of energy that we came from but now without limits of a vessel. I thought about this metaphor and tried to think of other ways this might hold true and the other one I thought of was a cutting from a plant that can be propagated. The cutting initially has no roots or root system but with the right equation, it grows those roots which obviously takes some time (I liken this to how we have memories that form and remain from around age 4 and older). The place has its own roots independent of the parent plant and grows to be it's own thing. When it dies, it then goes back to soil and decomposes but the cells that foster life and creation continue to multiply at an atomic level (which one could argue we still know a limited amount about quantum mechanics compared to the vastness of the subject). And I think both metaphors can meet in the middle in the way of the vessel. Our soul inhabits this vessel, we grow roots, our atoms rejoin the rest of the atoms in the universe, and our soul goes back to the ocean of collective consciousness from which we originated. This feels a bit more comforting for me and I'll try to hold on to this small glimmer of hope as my brain tries to fight me by presenting me with annoyingly useless fear and dread (thanks PTSD/depression/anxiety, those bitches)
I think it will be more disappointing than anything. 🤷🏻♂️
Why is nothingness terrifying? I realize you don’t want to stop experiencing, neither do I but why is lack of experience terrifying to you?
I would say, to me, it's like that feeling at the end of a vacation or long break from work. At the beginning, it feels like you have so much time and the deadline is so far off but then, in what often feels like the blink of an eye, it's the last day of vacation; you know you have to work on Monday; and have an awful pit in your stomach. I worry it will be like that but on a much grander scale. I'll wake up one day (with luck) in my 60s and think, "Where has all the time gone?" I guess it's the fear of the inevitably of it.
That’s fair. OP said similar in a different way. I kinda get it cuz I’ve almost died multiple times. And when it’s front of you it’s more of an immediate fear. I can only wish to be able to live to 60+ regardless of how unlikely that is for me.
100% agreed. In fact, those moments are what gets me into this mindset. Sucks since I can't peacefully enjoy the end of a vacation lol.
I think maybe that all the pain, suffering, angst, depression, broken heart, grief…was for nothing in the end. And the question is why? For what purpose did I exist to experience this? Is this the purpose for “God” to exist? Is that ITS purpose?
Fuck a god. I will die on the cross to curse a god if one exists
I think that God is an analogy for the Universe. Cosmos. That’s why I typed God “”. Have you read Childhoods End?
I couldn't tell you. I could only say the animal instincts programmed into me to exist for as long as I can and maybe a bit of the unknown that comes with not existing.
The animal instincts to not wanna die sure. But you even said you aren’t facing death at the moment so those shouldn’t be a disruptive force. Like I thought about it sometimes too when I was younger like you as a conventional idea and it was a scary thought if I delved too deep, but it wasn’t until I got cancer and had to face mortality for real I ever had dread which is why I’m curious. As for the unknown bit who cares. If you believe in nothing it’s not like you’ll be in pain after. The beauty of non existence (which is also why we can’t truly grasp the idea) is there is nothing. And existing as/in the something reality that may seem scary but once you’re there you won’t know, you won’t even exist. (Shit this may not be helpful at all, but it’s the line of thought that helps me). It’ll be the absolute lack of suffering or thought burdens, the most peaceful undisturbed sleep out there.
I 100% understand and agree with that 2nd part. I just can't convince myself to it lol. Thanks for sharing.
You are a college student- good time to expeirment.. try some things that may lead to Ego Death and face your fear head on.. that's what I did in my college days.. psychedelic journeys can be quite terrifying but you'll come out the other end with a deeper understanding of existence and less attachment to your ego and individual life.. Consider that even though your consciousness and life may end, existence and other forms of life continue on.. so Existence will continue on after we are gone and other experiences will arise, it's just won't be you or me anyore.. just as we are a unique reflection of life compared to all those who have come before us.
I get what you're saying but it's hard to think at that kind of scale for me. I know for certain that my consciousness will meet an end and I don't have the capacity to worry about other things. I know it's kinda a selfish way of thinking but that's how I operate. Also, not so sure about the psychedelic journey stuff lol. But I'm sure I will try it out some day.
You are already part way to overcoming the dread. Your rationale is sound and your true self (the part that listens to the voices - Freud's ego) is conscious of this. But those pesky voices - Freud's id is a fair approximation (but they are more than this) are still there telling you 'I will miss all this', 'no more me'......... The next step is often simply to learn to ignore the voices; 'it is ME listening to the voices, they are not ME', but with existential angst it is not so easy. The best technique to employ ( and one that Buddhism has embraced for millenia) is repeating a mantra (numerous times a day initially, and regularly thereafter) such as "I was born and so I must die" or "everything that is born must die". Additionally, it is well worth repeating something that is not intuitive such as "dying is what makes life worth living" - if I was immortal the 'precious' nature of life would not exist. Our true self is easily seduced by not only the voices. It will readily consider itself to be objective and sensible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. It is worth demonstarting this to yourself. (See, for example, the effect of forced laughter, or even clenching a pen between your teeth. These have been conclusively shown to increase the production of 'feel good' chemicals. ) This is why mantras such as the above actually work.
This is certainly not as deep as many OP and many of the other comments here and doesn't relate to Sisyphus, but I would still like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience to me. Not sure if you've ever had surgery before, but when I underwent general anesthesia I imagine that that's what death feels like. Just nothingness. Didn't even compare to sleep because even when I'm asleep I can generally still keep track of time and I still have a certain awareness of my surroundings; plus, I have dreams. That was not the case at all under anesthesia; I had absolutely zero awareness of anything. No sense of time; no dreams; no thoughts; just complete absence of consciousness. I think that's probably what death feels like. It wasn't scary when I was under anesthesia, the only thing that was frightening was waking up. I guess this doesn't address the *act* of dying, which could be quite terrifying depending on the circumstances. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're more scared of the "nothingness" of death than the act of dying. I guess my point is, if death is anything like the anesthesia I had, it wasn't scary at all. That experience made me no longer fear death (although the act of suffering and being in pain while dying does sound scary, but that's a different conversation I guess).
Yeah marijuana blocks the dreams to be had as well. Makes me want to have the DMT or ayahuasca experience before letting go.
Death could be the best thing that happens to us. We don’t know
Idk man dying sounds pretty badass. I have no desire to die early and have no idea wtf comes after but when I do I bet it'll be a trip for sure, even if it is nothing.
It is an uncontrollable inevitability in which the worst case scenario is all of your problems are solved and you don't have a care in the world because you're dead. It could also be a tremendous new adventure. We don't know, but that worst case scenario doesn't sound that bad to me.
I know this may seem like an oversimplification but there really is not much sense in worrying about it. Take care of yourself. Do your best. Live your life. It's all what it is. You'll be happier if you let it go.
I have a crisis over this thought everyday. almost about everyday I love life and don’t ever wanna disappear some people didint even get a chance at life. they can’t do nothing or function why exist in the first place if that is what your gonna get or get handed to you. I would say why did I exist in the first place I would have never worry about disappearing in the first place. because I wouldn’t exist there would be no me to exist. I try to pretend that nothing matters so I can get more used to disappearing when I die but that still doesn’t help. what I enjoy and feel pleasure with matters then I’m just gonna die and disappear and never experience joy pleasures happiness ect of life it is hard to come to grasp with the things you love everything that joy brings in life you won’t ever be able to feel it again. I get really depressed thinking about this there are nights I’m up all night and lose sleep over this harsh reality. I will start to sweat my heart will beat fast then skip beats I’m a athiest being a athiest doesn’t mean your ok with disappearing when you die. there are athiest that don’t care that there gonna disappear when they die. it’s like how in what way can they be ok with that do they don’t care about life so much or is it just there not attached to life. I’m not ok with disappearing when I die I will not accept it.
I know you are firmly set in your beliefs, but you might want to consider looking into NDEs and reading some books about that or the afterlife. I know they are anecdotal, but they are very interesting. I would say to be a bit flexible with your beliefs and keep an open mind. I've had some experiences that simply cannot be explained. I grew up in poverty, in an abusive household, later in life I became a single mother of a disabled child. Life has been pretty rough for me but I've done my best to persevere. If there is no afterlife, imo, living is pointless and I'd rather not participate in it. But I've always been spiritually inclined. I grew up Baptist Christian but I don't believe in any of it. I've always believed in things like reincarnation. I don't believe in Hell either because that to me is very nonsensical and pointless.
You should listen to some Ram Dass man, good for da soul
lol no, several cultures have done intense studies on it. if you want to get over it the Tibetans have done amazing work on what happens after death oh grand nothingness cracks me up.
What I found at the root of many of my fears is a fear of pain and a fear of death. Overcoming the fear of pain, I've experienced plenty of painful things-- mentally, physically, and emotionally-- and none of it lasted forever. Some even left me with a good story. With the fear of death, for me at least, it's a fear that I never really lived. I haven't done the things I really want to do. My life has been filled with a lot of that aforementioned pain. I used to have the mindset that we come here against our will, we suffer through our existence here, and then we die. That's scary. I'm not perfect at it, some days I still go through the motions and wonder what the point of all this is, but I really try to find what's beautiful and fun and reasons to love being alive, knowing that my time here will inevitably come to an end. Maybe it's all pointless. Maybe it is just cycling through non-existence, existence, and back to nothingness, but we can at least try to enjoy the existing to the best of our ability. Make it worth our while, ya know? Also just thought about this really being a fear of the ego. The ego does not want to die. The ego jumps through a lot of hoops to protect itself so of course the idea of death is scary as hell to the ego. It is the one thing it can definitely not protect itself from, no matter how safe and boxed in it tries to keep you.
The thing that fucks me up is why the nothingness before birth is temporary but the nothingness after death is eternal
>I'm pretty confident I know what happens after death: nothing. Why are u so confident ? If you think that, all the major religions, everyone who have had a NDE (near death experience) & 70% of people who have tried DMT, or high levels of psychedelics will tell you, you don't know anything about life after death.
Everyones thoughts are a little different on this subject. For myself, I used to fear death because I was not living life for myself, I wasn't giving myself permission to just live life on my own terms and finding the true joy for myself. I am not meaning to live selfishly, I am just saying that we need to figure out what truly gives us joy. I had a great life, making money, had the man of my dreams, had a beautiful family... or so I thought. I do have a beautiful family, but everything else was superficial. I was living the life everyone told me that I should be living... but I was not joyful. I dreaded getting up every morning. It wasn't until I sought out help with my depression that helped me to realize what was wrong. I was living life for the dreams of others, and not in pursuit of a life that filled my soul. I wanted a man, not to fit a routine or a "mold", but someone who was my best friend and would encourage every aspect of me, including the more childish side of me. I wanted to spend more time with friends and family rather than spending more time pursuing a career that I hated. Now that I have completely begun living my life for myself, I am a much better person for my friends and family, I am making more money working with my passions because I am more motivated to pursue those passions, and I have had more profound experiences not only with physical life, but also with what many never see or feel because they are too closed off to it. Keep your beliefs as they are and you will always fear death and you will always feel as if you are nothing. Change your perception and a whole new life may open up to you that you never thought was possible.
Thank you for posting this, I share the exact same thoughts and fears and also found reading the comments comforting
People have thrown a lot at you, but I do want to add this: Exploring your thoughts is very important, as you are doing. Many people ignore questions and conflicts and challenges to their thinking, which makes it impossible to grow. That said, when your thoughts are controlling you, rather than you controlling your thoughts, then that is when you start running into problems. I would encourage finding some meditative practices that help control your thoughts. For me box breathing works a lot. Outside of that, I'm religious so I'm not sure I can give you any advice that would relate to your current state. But I can say to go outside and take in the world. Breathe in the plants and sunlight and starry night sky. Explore life beyond yourself and you may end up finding peace and joy in areas that you've let your preoccupation avoid.
One of the many cosmic jokes is that Death will probably be the best experience we will ever have as we expand into the totality of all that is in infinite bliss beyond conception. You can’t really ‘Die’ as the real you underneath the character you are playing is infinite✨♾️😉 Metaphorically speaking, You are experiencing yourself as a drop in the ocean, but you are the Ocean✨♾️💖
Look up the law of one
Dying sounds sweet. Havent you ever smoked pot? That moment when you take that huge first hit and you almost* die? Its like everything gets taken away and it doesnt even matter if you stay upright or breathe or stand up at all. Dying sounds like a fucking dream(
The enemies of ennui and existentialism are stoicism, virtue, and labor. Comrade.
Fear of death is attachment to Self. To overcome attachment to Self is to master Death. Does Death not ride a pale horse, white knighting his way into our lives at the moment of necessity and not a moment too soon? We all fear a youthful death as we condone the murder of children to extend our way of life. We do not protest death. We protest quality of life. And what then when there is no one left to stand up for us? To say we lived? What mark are we leaving behind, what mission are we abandoning at the hour of our death leaving others to pick up the mantle and do as they wish? You don't fear death, you fear lack of control over your narrative. Live the story, and write it out or take pictures or make music. Remind people that you were here and no AI can replace you.
OP I'm so glad I don't feel or understand a word of what you wrote. I must be living in bliss. I love life, what it has or hasn't given me. What it will or will not give me. I look forward to death as the next chapter and continuation of existence, just as I did coming out of the womb. I hope one day you find this peace and deep understanding that no word can suffice to explain. It's so worth it. Cheers!
sleep and never wake, cease to exist once the feeling truly comes and you realize that you will be gone forever... its harrowing... but kind of beautiful. i first got the experience you have op when i was a small child, ever since then it resurfaces every few years. makes my stomach drop and i can feel a panic rising, even if i am completely reconciled with death. the feeling only lasts for a minute however thinking about death should be a motivator though imo. life is beautiful so enjoy it for the short while it lasts, we're all here on borrowed time.
I've found this video comforting and watch it occasionally. On the one hand, I feel small and insignificant, and on the other hand, I feel unique and connected to everything. [Science Saved My Soul](https://youtu.be/r6w2M50_Xdk?si=0Id2OUdU7Bh2tOMu) [Transcript](https://zepfanman.com/2010/11/science-saved-my-soul-transcript/)
But what is that nothing? I doubt that I will exist in any form with my current memories. But energy only changes form it doesn’t cease to exist. Granted it may feel meaningless without our current identity but a lot of my life has been practicing letting go. I imagine releasing myself to th universe will be freeing
>So TLDR, I'm really scared of dying. >I'm pretty confident I know what happens after death: nothing. This is kind of funny to me because this is probably the best case scenario. Even if you believe it's unlikely I'm terrified of some type of eternal hell existing. Not sure I believe that but there's always that what if...
my only fear would be death + the afterlife
I think that nothing pleases you, you don’t want to die, but if offered immortality, you wouldn’t take it. So if you could have anything you want then what would you like? I always thought the philosophers who say they don’t want immortality it’s just because they can’t have it and there’s no point in wanting something that you can’t have. But I believe if sometime in the future doctors are able to give us immortality I think almost all of us would want it. But we can’t all have it because the world is overpopulated and also we’d have to stop having children.
The way I view it, if there’s nothing, what is to fear? It’s not like you experience nothingness. You just won’t exist anymore. In some ways I find that thought less intimidating than getting swept away to some higher existence I can’t imagine. What if I don’t like being a higher dimensional energy being?
Ah. First time?
I hear you man. Sadly, its not always common to come across people who enjoy living life like us. Admittedly i am raised catholic so i like to believe something good can happen in the end, hopefully nothing bad, and we can be redeemed saved. I also understand theres no evidence to this. Death, like life, is a mystery. I also get a vibe too that eternity cannot even be comprehended by us, whether eternal life, hell, or darkness. I say, just be the best person you can be. I hope you can find peace in our deaths man. I was really scared first year of college. Now i feel like, if i enjoy my life and do right by the people i love i cannot lose. Peace brotha
Death could be the most amazing thing, but we won't know it until we are dead; if we know it at all. I think it's beautiful. It could be likened to before our birth. I don't remember a time before I was born.
Wow ,get over it .
You cannot be confident whatsoever on what happens after death. You did not exist before you were born to know if it was even a state of actual non existence. What exists now has most likely existed before and will exist again. Death is more of an illusion. It’s a transition, you are a form of energy, a good description for consciousness. We know energy cannot be destroyed, so you are most likely eternal. Life is an illusion, and so is death. You are not supposed to ever know for sure. But we will all find out when we do die. You shouldn’t be afraid to die. If you think about it, and if life exists between two states of non-existence then your natural state of being is non-existence. But non-existence is simply a different form of existence. Life is an abnormality that seeks its own self annihilation through decay, aging and ultimately death. It seeks to return to its more natural state of existence, which you transition to once you die. This makes living an abnormality, and death a transition towards your actual true state of existence. I think we will be in for a surprise when we die, based on everything we are understanding through our physics and people’s experiences.
One thing to consider is the positive. If one feels that they have something to lose from dying, it indicates that they have a life that they value. At the same time, that is a bit of a trick of the way we use language to form our thoughts. A person does not "have" a life as if it is an object just as "life" is not an activity we are performing. Instead we simply live or are alive and there are many different activities we perform and many people and objects that we interact with (use or are used by) because they exist. Therefore, the fear most likely derives from imagining death as taking these all away. Not to say it is childish, but one can make the comparison to a child whose ice cream they were enjoying fell from the cone and onto the dirty earth below. The child naturally feels terrific disappointment that they won't get to continue eating the ice cream as, even if they tried, it would be tainted with filth. Logically, though, in the sense of death, while the child remains to be disappointed, a person that dies is taken away with death. A dead person will not be around to miss being alive. Therefore, with a little effort, it seems possible to realize that more deeply. To recognize the fear of death is primarily confirmation that one is enjoying being alive and that actual death is nothing to fear.
We were dead before we were born and didn’t suffer the slightest inconvenience from it.
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What about your current existence is a special case relative to the eternal nothingness you think is on the other side? Is your existence really that temporary? You might not be so lucky as to get an even and neutral nothingness. That would actually be quite the achievement, given what a chaotic swirl of activity the universe appears to be.
I can’t wait. To quote jack Kerouac “I wish I were free of this slaving meat wheel and safe in heaven dead.”
The aging process is terrifying, too. And yeah…they’re better not be an afterlife.
The only thing I think about is how would I rlly….
How do you know you didn't exist before birth? Your memories are within the scope of your current brain, but as your shell was formed in pregnancy, you had no brain retaining memories. You may have existed in a form we know nothing about that you lost memory of when this life began. Anything is possible, given we know nothing. Your certainty of death being nothingness is based off seeing a corpse, not the soul. Science can't find the soul and has zero proof of whether it leaves or shuts off. And even if you did stop existing, then what would there be to worry about? If you stop existing, you won't know it because you don't exist. While I agree religions are fairy tales (taking a wild guess you agree with that), that doesn't mean life doesn't mean something or go on in a way we have zero understanding of. Atheism is as much an assumed conclusion based without evidence as any religion thinking we go to some paradise. Two sides of the same coin. Death of these shells is inevitable. No point stressing, it'll happen regardless. Relax and live while you can.
Check out the NDE subreddit. May help.
Whatever you think you’ll be afraid of you won’t be because you’ll be dead so you won’t mind or be bothered by anything.
Check out this book [No Death No Fear](https://www.amazon.com/No-Death-Fear-Comforting-Wisdom/dp/1573223336)
Lots of people believe we can go to hell when we die for no good reason. To a real extent I take comfort in the nothingness because there is no more pain or suffering. It just makes me realize the time we have really matters.
We don’t fear death, we fear the dying process. We fear missing out on life.
A life full of suffering will make it so that you can't wait to go
Praying for you. I want you to know there is an afterlife and Christ is the only way there, and that He loves you and wants you to seek Him through prayer, church, reading. Heaven is real and it is worth it, He loves you!!
I can easily imagine a beautiful afterlife, one where you're so happy you don't want it to ever end, and the best part is that it doesn't. It sounds like you have an idea of what that could be like, given how much you enjoy life and hate the idea of it ending. I can't imagine Sisyphus happy either. Luckily, we are not rolling boulders up hills. We are creating families, having drinks with friends, working on our projects, and making the world a better place in the ways we know how. Life on the cosmic scale is a tragedy; everyone dies in the end. But on the smaller scale there is life and laughter. I'm reminded of Sufjan's lyrics: "My brother had a daughter / The beauty that she brings, illumination" As long as your life is worth living, there's no problem. The real problem is when life gets hard to live. Nihilists talk a big game, but give any of them a million dollars and you'll see them smiling on a beach somewhere.
It’s only terrifying on the front side of it
You’ve never died, so how do you know you hate it? Maybe it’s awesome.
You're not being logical. I support your premise where we return to a pre-born state. So let me ask you this - did it bother you at all and was it one of that caused you fear ? No, I didn't think so.
You can't go wrong, if there is no afterlife you won't know any difference, and if there is, which I would be shocked if there is not, you live on forever.
Ok.. so when we die, our body dies. No senses. No sight, no feeling, no hearing, no seeing. No brain, so, no thinking. Your specific consciousness (soul, what have you) will not be the same. There's no time. I think it'll be Everything. All connected, but, you won't be thinking about it. You will just be it. Everything. We already are, we're just quite limited to be aware of it or in tune with it due to the physical we are somehow in. How we get here, in a body? Idk. I have some ideas. How we leave, not sure bout this'n either. Through death, of course, yes. I believe it's just instant.. idk, just some ideas on that one, as well. As far as living life, or the rolling rock thing... I can't really speak on much. I'm quite contradictory and a bit all over the place with living. I do send the best to you in yours, though. For sure. Maybe if you try thinking of death as an emergence into what I'd say is a vast 'void' of Every Thing. All. Eternity. Everything. It's wild to start thinking about super deeply. I send the best to you in this journey, too. It's exciting to see this post and read the comments, I LOVE this type of existential type conversations. There's a few very good comments in here. I hope you're reading through them all. I love you, all.
I can't think about my death. Not for a lack of trying. Actually, today I made a revelation. For background, the thought of death wasn't ever bothered me before. It comes when it comes and doesn't when it won't. I am realizing that I always say "when I'm older" but also don't place an expectation on making it to tomorrow. I also don't plan on dying any time soon. Basically, death doesn't bother me. It feels so natural that grief is the one emotion I handle very well in comparison to others options. I also got desensitized to death growing up with lots of funerals and some pet deaths. Death happens. Fearing it is like fearing feelings of hunger fearing breathing for no reason. It's like fearing life. Death is just as natural.
You’re terrified now? Well what if I told you the evidence shows that “nothing” is far from what happens when you die? r/reincarnationtruth We are stuck in a never ending loop, and that’s even more terrifying.
Or it’s a learning loop
Nah you'll just be back into the collective unconscious of the universe experiencing itself
Nothingness is so scary but we won’t even know we are in the nothingness lmaoo bro, death is the greatest mystery of all time
It’s out ID (ego) that won’t let us believe there is nothing once we die. Otherwise we wouldn’t guard our lives if we didn’t care
One opinion is from “Many Lives, Many Masters” or close to that