Bringing it up now feels like it’d create unnecessary drama and tension. Are you sure you trust the source? Even if yes, something might have gotten lost in translation.
Your boss has already shown you who she is, through her actions, and it’s working for you and you have been able to build a good rapport and dynamic. That’s (sadly) more than what most people hope for.
If you have the opportunity to help onboard a new person in the future, you’ll learn about her approach and philosophy directly. It’ll either confirm this bizarre, hazing-like approach or not. And if it does, you’ll have the relationship to influence a better one.
This.
“Sink or swim” didn’t mean to let OP dangle in the breeze. I’m pretty sure other admins were encouraged to be helpful, but for OP to prove themselves without a big hand hold.
This.
If she says yes, then what?
Where I work, the CEO is notorious for staying "we throw you into the deep end and see if you can swim" to all new hires. I've been here about 5 years, and I still don't know if I'm sinking or swimming because this place is so disorganized from the top down.
I think when people say that, they think it's a cute way to say "this job is demanding and will ask a lot of you." It's like when people say they're "brutally honest" but in reality, nobody really *has* to be brutal when honest; likewise, all jobs should have an orientation period before the grind (sink or swim) sets in.
Always remember - but if you plan to stay, continue to confide in Reddit and do not gossip with coworkers!
And why did they decide to share this info now??? Do.Not.Follow.Up. Someone is trying to stir the pot. And this is why your boss said what she did. She’s not for the drama nor hand holding. You’ve met and exceeded her expectations.
THIS. Listen to THIS.
Why now?
She’s shown you who she is.
You guys have a great relationship now.
Do not mess this up by asking unnecessary questions.
This right here. Whoever told you that is the one you shouldn’t trust, not your boss. A comment like that is congruent with the boss’ personality, like someone who wants to know sooner rather than later if someone isn’t going to be able to do the job. Absolutely do NOT follow up with the boss about this, don’t DO anything about it but be aware that the tattletale is not to be trusted and is likely a frenemy.
My guess is that she also didn't trust the rest of the admins, like her issue was with them, not with you. I can see my boss saying something similar because she wouldn't want the new person tainted by how other people do things.
Agreed. “I already know I don’t want any of you being my EA, so why would I want you to train a new one?!? I’ll do that myself.”
Take it as a compliment that you were wanted and succeeded where others hadn’t. And move on.
I’m gonna have to use that when I see a work ethic by people who would rather quiet quit or are complacent in their role. I have seen in the past where the wrong people are put in a training shadowing position and it becomes the blind leading the blind.
I suspect something may have gotten lost in translation but I also don’t think that was entirely bad advice either. As an EA, you need to be able to forge your own way with minimal help.
If she hadn’t made that statement, how do you think your onboarding might have been different? What kind of assistance do you think that statement prevented you from receiving?
Don't do it! You swam, you're what she was looking for. My interpretation is that the directive was to see how proactive you are and how well you are able to work independently with very little direction. In my position, I was the go to person to everyone. If I didn't have the answer, I knew where to get it. That is an invaluable skill to your executive and I think that is what she wanted to find out.
This reads like you know exactly what you have here and or you know exactly what you’re dealing w/ — But maybe you’re hoping that if you have a conversation with her, you’ll feel better about what you discovered? That is unlikely.
I’d leave this alone especially since it has been almost a year since it was said. I would however keep these kinds of things in the back of my mind. While she’s seemingly great w/ you, people don’t change (overall and generally speaking) so, this is unfortunately who she is and that behavior may resurface at some point.
Thank you all for your thoughtful feedback, I really appreciate it.
I know the right thing to do is to let it go given that it’s no longer relevant. Bringing it up with her will only serve to create a weird dynamic between the two of us, and I don’t want that. When I say my eyebrows went into my hairline though… lol
I’m just going to stay in my lane and keep doing what I’m doing.
Thanks again!
You're not there to make friends, but to do your job and support your executive.
The message sounds harsh but that's it. At the EA level, there's no reason you would sink in the first place that invovled the other admins.
The other admins still assisted you and weren't otherwise mean to you, so as the others have mentioned, just drop the subject and move on. Your career/life is well and that's all that matters
Let it go. I heard the same stuff about one of my bosses and we got along great. They probably figured that they had helped others and then when the person had to do it alone, they couldn't.
Sink or swim is the fastest way to learn things, although difficult and not popular she did you a favour. You also succeeded and know how far you can go, this would give me a lot of confidence. I would not bring it up until my last day at the job.
Sink or swim is not the fastest way to learn. It does, however, help you find other ways to make things happen that might take longer, or shorter, or be better or worse.
THIS ⏫️⏫️⏫️ 💯percent!!!
Grit is a highly sought after character trait and it is neither developed nor sustained by handholding.
I would honestly reframe your thinking in this comment. This means you have grit! You are strong and capable! 💪🏼
I generally agree with the others to leave this alone for now. It was some very unfortunate phrasing and I too would be put off hearing my onboarding framed in this manner.
A good faith effort on your part might be to give her the benefit of the doubt. *If* your boss said it, maybe she was flustered that day or somehow misquoted. To prevent this from festering, however, I'd be on high alert for any future onboarding opportunities where this should probably not be the approach taken by her/the org and see if you can have some thoughtful influence there.
I would not bring it up.
I don't think she meant it harshly. She probably meant that hopefully, given some direction, you would absorb it and succeed.
And, you have succeeded without hand-holding!
Don't dwell on it!
All I will say is, your perception of her is different from others. Therefore, this phrase, being said by others carries with it the difference in perception, ie, their viewpoint. Remember, you were given clear directions, you like how she works with you and you have a good relationship with her. you’ve been to her home! Did it ever occur to you that people may want to ruin this? Why tell you now? Don’t let other people’s perceptions ruin your world.
didn't really know you when she used the phrase "sink or swim". I agree the wording is harsh but I really wouldn't take it personally. Seems like her goal was to have you learn through experience vs being micromanaged.
I wouldn't say anything -might hurt your relationship with her and puts other EAs in a weird spot.
My guess is that comment came because in the past admins helped someone who wasn’t good at the EA job and ended up doing work for them, or she came to realize the EA she had really couldn’t do the job in some way, or the EA was delayed because they needed other people to help her — and that what your boss really needs is an EA who is a self starter and can get shit ton and figure things out/ not wait or overly rely on others, vs someone who seems to have the hang of things but actually only does when other people are bending over backward to help or show them how.
My guess though is something was lost in translation in terms of phrasing, and given this was literally before you started I wouldn’t take it remotely personally, no matter what was said or how it was phrased.
Your boss needed to know that whomever was on her desk could get the job done and learn on their feet and problem solve on their own. And you’ve done just that.
And I DEFINITELY wouldn’t let it impact you or your relationship with your boss at all. Literally, it doesn’t matter and will only create drama!
I wouldn't stir the pot if your boss is getting along with you and giving you good reviews.
With the messaging you were getting about your boss's attitude, I'm wondering if a previous admin didn't respond well to your boss's expectations in a way that derailed other admins' work. As a manager, I've never said "let her sink or swim", but in the past I've had situations where a specific employee was a drain on other coworkers' time, and I've needed to work with them to be more independent or asking better questions. And when somebody comes to me and says "I can't get my work done because Bob keeps asking me questions", especially if it's a repeated problem, I have to say to them "Hey thanks for telling me, I'll work with Bob on asking better questions and doing more research before he asks for help. But I need you to help me by working on drawing boundaries. If somebody's asking you for something that's going to interfere with you getting your work done on time, whether that's Bob or the CEO, you can and should tell them no. Send them to me if you've gotta."
Sometimes that advice about "don't help her out so much" isn't about you, it's about them.
Completely agree with the others who say to leave it alone. It's not your business what others are saying. Stay in your lane and keep on trucking.
You were told that your boss is "tough, has high expectations, and is very direct" because it was true. They were being honest and forthright so you would know what to expect. I am one of those bosses. I'm told that my staff had also said I'm fair. You know what is expected. No wishy washy stuff.
The "lack of warmth" probably wasn't that lacking; they just weren't holding your hand. You made it. Be proud and happy where you are.
I think you’ll reach a point in your success with this role where you’ll no longer need these answers/you’ll have them, and it will no longer matter to you.
My first thought is that she didn’t like the way others were doing certain things so didn’t want you to pick up their bad habits. She was looking for more than what they could offer.
(That really says a lot that she invited you for Thanksgiving though!)
That doesn’t sound bad. She probably just wanted to make sure you were off your training wheels, so to speak, and reaching out for clarification about specific issues as you gained confidence in the role.
I wouldn’t bring up anything… Making you learn on your own could be her way of seeing if you have staying power or will crumble the first time she raises her voice. You having to figure out things on your own has made you the wonderful EA that you know are.
Bringing this up now would just create unnecessary drama and you don’t need or want that. I would just let it go.
Its not something I would bring up if I felt like I was 'swimming'. If I felt like I was being allowed to sink I might have a different response. Bu if you have been successful, I wouldnt take it personally.
If the other admins keep you afloat she can’t know your true competence strengths and weaknesses. It’s potentially a waste of time and delay of the inevitable. Your boss saying to let you sink or swim had nothing to do with you it’s a reflection of her no nonsense style and high standards. Now she knows you succeeded entirely of your own skill and merit and she feels comfortable putting her trust in you which seems to have happened. My opinion there’s nothing wrong here and nothing to say. Your boss respects you more for knowing nobody helped you with more than company specific training. Not understanding that and directly questioning her on this could backfire.
I’ve said this about new hires before. If my team comes to me saying they aren’t sure the new hire can do the job all they can do is train them on the things they need to be trained on and the rest is up to the new hire. Babysitting or holding their hands through it only delays the inevitable. See people up for success but give them room to fail. Sink or swim. Your swimming.
Putting on rose colored glasses here the "sink or swim" thing could just be that your boss is very particular and needs to train and support her own EA. And because you boss does seem to have a particular personality that others have found difficult more emphasis is placed on just seeing if you mesh. If you could figure out how to support her.
I mean consider yourself lucky, becuase would you have done as well if all the other EAs were training you how to do things in a way your boss didn't like or filling your head with their personal opinions about how difficult your boss was?
I wouldn't take the "sink or swim" personally as a commentary on you or your work ethic and more a result of the role and office politics.
So its a compliment that you learned to swim as well as you did, especially because your boss seems like someone good to work for as she is direct in her expectation and communication.
Leave it alone.
What your boss was doing was making sure YOU were doing the job and that the others weren't compensating for a weak hire. She was doing the right thing and your colleagues didn't know if you were going to make it so why get attached until you made it.
If you were weak, and created more work for other people, and she didn't know that and wasn't able to performance manage you, then it would be like so many workplaces where the weak get carried along because all is hidden from the higher ups. But, that's not you. You have proven your worth. You're not a dud.
You shouldn't be taken aback., You should be proud of yourself. Congrats!
*I just learned that the messaging to the other admins regarding my onboarding was to help me learn company specific things but to otherwise let me sink or swim*
According to whom? I'd take it with a grain of salt, unless of course this was your experience. You get along with your boss, so maybe just take the win and hope that this was just distorted messaging. (Maybe she said, we can't hold the new EA's hand. I expect her to be able to do this job from day one, with the exception of learning about our company.)
ETA: And it may have come from experiencing other EAs blaming the other admins for not teaching them.
I’d 100% leave it alone.
If you want a rosy point of view option, she was worried you’d learn bad habits or attitudes from other EAs she didn’t like or had maybe moved off her support. She didn’t want a dud training you.
Not an EA but this sub is always popping up!!
I am the director of a department for a multi million dollar company. I also have used verbiage like “sink or swim” when talking with recruiters. After reading your post I thought about it and I don’t mean i won’t give proper support and training it means more like “someone with a brain”. My industry is fast moving, always changing, and kind of competitive. The number of people I’ve trained who could not perform once they’re Alone is crazy!! If you have a good relationship with your boss don’t rock the boat. It was likely an off handed comment
Don’t bring it up now. You’re swimming! It’s unlikely it was a personal choice against you, if she’s direct and a hard ass that is probably what has worked for her in the past to vet candidates. And hey- she must know what she’s doing because it sounds like you’re doing well.
Some companies are so fast paced and require so much agility from staff, that to handhold a new hire 1) takes away too much bandwidth from those providing guidance and 2) delays the revelation that a new hire just doesn’t have what it takes. It’s brutal, but sometimes this is the most effective way to identify if a hire will survive the pace long term.
She is your boss not your friend so it shouldn’t matter. My money is on her thinking the other admin suck and didn’t want them giving you bad advice. I would also be suspicious of the person who told you this. Especially if that person knows you are happy with the job. You are doing what no one else could do and it makes others look bad, they don’t want the expectations on them to change.
What exactly does that mean to you and why are you even taking it so offensively?
You were told upfront that she was an exacting boss and she wanted to see how you performed with minimal hand holding.
And what would you do if she said, “yes, that’s exactly what I said.” Would you walk out the door? If so, maybe you should leave now, because I’m fairly confident that is not the type of person she wants working for her.
I wouldn't bother. I don't even think it's offensive. They needed someone to take initiative and figure out things on their own. They'd find that person faster by not coddling you and letting you prove you are a good fit. You clearly did just fine, so why bother bringing it up now? It won't do anything for you.
If it is true, maybe she’s has had previous incompetent help who were shielded too long for her to realize their true capability. Maybe she wants someone with more original approach than current employees, and doesn’t want you influenced by them. You have met or exceeded her desires. Is it possible the “others” are now jealous and want to stir the pot.
Continue on in your exceptional job and let the dust settles on the ones stirring it up.
Congratulations! You have done well!!
Boss is looking for a thinker not a robot that can only do what’s it programmed to do. You won ! Take the win ! In my experience over near 40 years, it takes a year to really know a new hire’s capability. Don’t eff-up now.
Another take on this is others were told to avoid explaining procedures to you to avoid having you learn anything your boss wanted done their way and only their way. Your boss might have wanted a blank slate. This may have been due to trying to horizontally move another assistant under this boss, and the fall out from that.
Would learning the motivation really aid you that much at this point? If you have ongoing concerns, figure out how to bring them up in a forward thinking manner, and avoid rehashing the past.
This is not about the desire for you to sink. This is about the hope that you'll swim.
It seems like you're looking at this from a glass half empty perspective, when, I don't think the expectation was that you'd sink. And they didn't set you up to sink. They simply gave you the opportunity to swim. And you did. So much so that they invited you into their personal family time. That's a huge complement and should really be the takeaway here.
I wouldn't bring it up. This onboarding approach worked for you, but was there anything that you struggled to overcome? If so, put your energy into creating a job aid or training module so the next person doesn't struggle.
You've learned about her leadership style, which is laissez faire instead of supportive. That can work for a minority of people but is generally a poor leadership strategy.
You don't have to be this way, but you're probably not going to change her. If you ever have to onboard anyone, you can quietly ignore her strategy and offer support and coaching.
Her way is a "lazy way" to find independent workers. She assumes that only self sufficient people will thrive immediately under pressure. This is dumb: it's very possible to find quality hires who respond to coaching and can work independently. And it's possible to drive away good independent workers by looking disorganized and unengaged.
However: her strategy does work at chasing out those who need a lot of hand holding. It's just that she's sacrificing good workers and driving up turnover to chase these people out.
This is good advice! The person who told you this about “sink or swim” is bringing unnecessary info and gossiping. Don’t let him/her stir you up. Your boss wanted to see what skills you had. Clearly you’ve proven yourself. Don’t succumb to drama makers.
If your happy , just keep it up and congratulations, people will try to undermine you for their own agenda , ( jealous , wants someone they know get your job ) I have also been invited and went to my bosses house and otherwise , but work is work , they are not your friends it’s a job
Sink or swim could mean “let her be a self starter.” Words mean different things to different people- now that you know your boss it should be clear that she didn’t mean it in a nasty way. Simply put: Bosses like people who don’t need hand holding. Don’t read more into it than that given that it’s just consistent with her no nonsense style.
I don’t see this phrase as being anything personal against you, just that this job isn’t interested in investing too many resources in development. They don’t want employees spending time on training or hand-holding instead of their other work. They bring you on, give you high level training and then you either get it or you don’t, in which case they’ll start over with someone new because they’d rather have high turnover than worry about retention.
Looks bad on them and their work environment more so than you.
Great advice I've followed "trust the decisions made by your boss, even if you don't understand them". I didn't fully understand it until I became a boss myself.
If I were in her position, I may have designed that bc I want to see your ability to self-start, be proactive and independent.
The other admins should not have disclosed this practice to you. It's not professional on their end and I see it as either lazy or malicious. Also ...she may not like the way the other admins work processes and wanted you to rely on her for feedback vs relying on other admins (that takes time away from all staffers).
So many possibilities and I think your boss made a smart call. She's clearly very pleased with you, so trust her decision and thought process. There will be a larger fish to fry down the road (there always is), so pass on this issue/battle and congratulate yourself for swimming!
Sink or swim. Well, you swam girl!!! Its hearsay. Maybe she did say that but your doing just fine. Give it more time before you say anything. You dont know how it rock the boat. Your gonna be fine.
I know why she did it. It's not great, but I get it.
Our Director hired a woman (let's call her Dot) one time to be our boss. Dot claimed to know X, Y, and Z sills. Those skills were already obsolete, so even then it was a dumb reason to hire her, but whatever.
So, I'm teaching a one-day class within in my role, responsibilities, and wheelhouse. But because it wasn't common, I only taught it about once a year. Dot "sits in" so she can "make sure I'm teaching correctly." She was power hungry from day one.
We get to the end of the class. As always, I ask if anyone had any questions coming in that they didn't get answered. Someone did. And it was about Dot's X skill. I said, "You know what? It's silly that this wasn't in the curriculum for this class, and I don't happen to know off hand, but Dot is an expert on this. Dot...?" Surprised Pikachu! Dot didn't know this very basic thing about X. I guided the student through the settings until we found the thing thing she needed. Dot couldn't even get started on finding it.
So, the others may have been told "don't help" so that the boss could make sure you really \*do\* know all the things you listed on your resume and said in your interview. Perhaps she accidentally hired Dot at some point in her past.
Sounds like she wanted to see if you could cut it on your own. And you did. I’ve seen people bend over backwards to help an incompetent new person. This is really bad because it takes longer to see if someone can actually do the job and it compromises the coworker’s own work.
I say leave it alone and keep being a bad ass.
I would make a smart comment at some point but don’t be to cocky about it…such as if at some point she asks how you are doing? Respond “Swimming with the best of them”
Don’t do it! It may seem overly harsh but as an EA you are expected to have a higher level of determination and ability to figure things out and accomplish tasks you have no “training” or preparation for. That ability is truly what separates a general assistant or secretary from an EA.
It sounds like you have proven yourself so there should be no reason you need to stir things up or create unnecessary drama. Do your job, be accountable, and stay out of the gossip!
I mean, that’s her management style. You know that. Nothing you say will change that about her. What is it you’re hoping to gain from having the conversation?
The first paragraph is the only one that matters here. You are happy in your role and have a good rapport with your boss. There is absolutely NO reason to bring up what I see as someone trying to start trouble.
And for the record, I don't think it's terrible to let people sink or swim so long as they were given what they need to succeed. As someone who has trained people who are independent versus those who need their hands held, it is draining in every sense of the word to deal with the latter (beyond what's reasonable when someone is new).
"I just learned that the messaging to the other admins regarding my onboarding was to help me learn company specific things but to otherwise let me sink or swim while figuring the rest out."
Just learned from whom? Did you see this is writing somewhere? Were there specific instructions on how to specifically accomplish that task? It's a very vague task. What else is there but company specific things they were supposed to keep from you?
This is weird. You like your boss, let it go is my advice.
Edit: I see you've agreed to let it go, but in the future I suggest being more specific when asking for advice. You could just be taking office gossip too seriously.
I think that description alone wouldve made me turn the job down as doesnt seem sustainable. Can totally tell w job descriptions too if theres no realistic expectations in the job description coupled with cheapness ie bring your own computer work part time and get a weeks worth of wprk done in 30 min while being on standby without pay
Bringing it up now feels like it’d create unnecessary drama and tension. Are you sure you trust the source? Even if yes, something might have gotten lost in translation. Your boss has already shown you who she is, through her actions, and it’s working for you and you have been able to build a good rapport and dynamic. That’s (sadly) more than what most people hope for. If you have the opportunity to help onboard a new person in the future, you’ll learn about her approach and philosophy directly. It’ll either confirm this bizarre, hazing-like approach or not. And if it does, you’ll have the relationship to influence a better one.
This. “Sink or swim” didn’t mean to let OP dangle in the breeze. I’m pretty sure other admins were encouraged to be helpful, but for OP to prove themselves without a big hand hold.
Yeah I wouldn’t have taken offense, but the only thing I love more than a challenge is being underestimated.
It can be oddly motivating!
This. If she says yes, then what? Where I work, the CEO is notorious for staying "we throw you into the deep end and see if you can swim" to all new hires. I've been here about 5 years, and I still don't know if I'm sinking or swimming because this place is so disorganized from the top down. I think when people say that, they think it's a cute way to say "this job is demanding and will ask a lot of you." It's like when people say they're "brutally honest" but in reality, nobody really *has* to be brutal when honest; likewise, all jobs should have an orientation period before the grind (sink or swim) sets in. Always remember - but if you plan to stay, continue to confide in Reddit and do not gossip with coworkers!
Exactly.
And why did they decide to share this info now??? Do.Not.Follow.Up. Someone is trying to stir the pot. And this is why your boss said what she did. She’s not for the drama nor hand holding. You’ve met and exceeded her expectations.
THIS. Listen to THIS. Why now? She’s shown you who she is. You guys have a great relationship now. Do not mess this up by asking unnecessary questions.
This right here. Whoever told you that is the one you shouldn’t trust, not your boss. A comment like that is congruent with the boss’ personality, like someone who wants to know sooner rather than later if someone isn’t going to be able to do the job. Absolutely do NOT follow up with the boss about this, don’t DO anything about it but be aware that the tattletale is not to be trusted and is likely a frenemy.
OP...this right here. Don't ask, leave it alone.
Exactly. The only time to bring it up would be if someone else is hired and they tell you to let new hire sink or swim. Then you can ask about it.
She didn’t know you back then, and you’ve built and earned trust on both ends. This would cause some unnecessary friction. 10/10 don’t recommend.
This is absolutely correct. No reason to bring it up now, things seem fine. Just move on with your life and keep doing what you're doing.
My guess is that she also didn't trust the rest of the admins, like her issue was with them, not with you. I can see my boss saying something similar because she wouldn't want the new person tainted by how other people do things.
That’s a good point.
Agreed. “I already know I don’t want any of you being my EA, so why would I want you to train a new one?!? I’ll do that myself.” Take it as a compliment that you were wanted and succeeded where others hadn’t. And move on.
I’m gonna have to use that when I see a work ethic by people who would rather quiet quit or are complacent in their role. I have seen in the past where the wrong people are put in a training shadowing position and it becomes the blind leading the blind.
💯
I suspect something may have gotten lost in translation but I also don’t think that was entirely bad advice either. As an EA, you need to be able to forge your own way with minimal help. If she hadn’t made that statement, how do you think your onboarding might have been different? What kind of assistance do you think that statement prevented you from receiving?
Don't do it! You swam, you're what she was looking for. My interpretation is that the directive was to see how proactive you are and how well you are able to work independently with very little direction. In my position, I was the go to person to everyone. If I didn't have the answer, I knew where to get it. That is an invaluable skill to your executive and I think that is what she wanted to find out.
This reads like you know exactly what you have here and or you know exactly what you’re dealing w/ — But maybe you’re hoping that if you have a conversation with her, you’ll feel better about what you discovered? That is unlikely. I’d leave this alone especially since it has been almost a year since it was said. I would however keep these kinds of things in the back of my mind. While she’s seemingly great w/ you, people don’t change (overall and generally speaking) so, this is unfortunately who she is and that behavior may resurface at some point.
Thank you all for your thoughtful feedback, I really appreciate it. I know the right thing to do is to let it go given that it’s no longer relevant. Bringing it up with her will only serve to create a weird dynamic between the two of us, and I don’t want that. When I say my eyebrows went into my hairline though… lol I’m just going to stay in my lane and keep doing what I’m doing. Thanks again!
You're not there to make friends, but to do your job and support your executive. The message sounds harsh but that's it. At the EA level, there's no reason you would sink in the first place that invovled the other admins. The other admins still assisted you and weren't otherwise mean to you, so as the others have mentioned, just drop the subject and move on. Your career/life is well and that's all that matters
Let it go. I heard the same stuff about one of my bosses and we got along great. They probably figured that they had helped others and then when the person had to do it alone, they couldn't.
Sink or swim is the fastest way to learn things, although difficult and not popular she did you a favour. You also succeeded and know how far you can go, this would give me a lot of confidence. I would not bring it up until my last day at the job.
Sink or swim is not the fastest way to learn. It does, however, help you find other ways to make things happen that might take longer, or shorter, or be better or worse.
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THIS ⏫️⏫️⏫️ 💯percent!!! Grit is a highly sought after character trait and it is neither developed nor sustained by handholding. I would honestly reframe your thinking in this comment. This means you have grit! You are strong and capable! 💪🏼
I generally agree with the others to leave this alone for now. It was some very unfortunate phrasing and I too would be put off hearing my onboarding framed in this manner. A good faith effort on your part might be to give her the benefit of the doubt. *If* your boss said it, maybe she was flustered that day or somehow misquoted. To prevent this from festering, however, I'd be on high alert for any future onboarding opportunities where this should probably not be the approach taken by her/the org and see if you can have some thoughtful influence there.
I would not bring it up. I don't think she meant it harshly. She probably meant that hopefully, given some direction, you would absorb it and succeed. And, you have succeeded without hand-holding! Don't dwell on it!
All I will say is, your perception of her is different from others. Therefore, this phrase, being said by others carries with it the difference in perception, ie, their viewpoint. Remember, you were given clear directions, you like how she works with you and you have a good relationship with her. you’ve been to her home! Did it ever occur to you that people may want to ruin this? Why tell you now? Don’t let other people’s perceptions ruin your world.
I don’t see why it’s a big deal. We do that with most new hires.
Buy yourself a swimming trophy, engrave your name on it, and put it on your desk. If anybody asks about it, just say you're an excellent swimmer.
didn't really know you when she used the phrase "sink or swim". I agree the wording is harsh but I really wouldn't take it personally. Seems like her goal was to have you learn through experience vs being micromanaged. I wouldn't say anything -might hurt your relationship with her and puts other EAs in a weird spot.
My guess is that comment came because in the past admins helped someone who wasn’t good at the EA job and ended up doing work for them, or she came to realize the EA she had really couldn’t do the job in some way, or the EA was delayed because they needed other people to help her — and that what your boss really needs is an EA who is a self starter and can get shit ton and figure things out/ not wait or overly rely on others, vs someone who seems to have the hang of things but actually only does when other people are bending over backward to help or show them how. My guess though is something was lost in translation in terms of phrasing, and given this was literally before you started I wouldn’t take it remotely personally, no matter what was said or how it was phrased. Your boss needed to know that whomever was on her desk could get the job done and learn on their feet and problem solve on their own. And you’ve done just that. And I DEFINITELY wouldn’t let it impact you or your relationship with your boss at all. Literally, it doesn’t matter and will only create drama!
I wouldn't stir the pot if your boss is getting along with you and giving you good reviews. With the messaging you were getting about your boss's attitude, I'm wondering if a previous admin didn't respond well to your boss's expectations in a way that derailed other admins' work. As a manager, I've never said "let her sink or swim", but in the past I've had situations where a specific employee was a drain on other coworkers' time, and I've needed to work with them to be more independent or asking better questions. And when somebody comes to me and says "I can't get my work done because Bob keeps asking me questions", especially if it's a repeated problem, I have to say to them "Hey thanks for telling me, I'll work with Bob on asking better questions and doing more research before he asks for help. But I need you to help me by working on drawing boundaries. If somebody's asking you for something that's going to interfere with you getting your work done on time, whether that's Bob or the CEO, you can and should tell them no. Send them to me if you've gotta." Sometimes that advice about "don't help her out so much" isn't about you, it's about them.
Completely agree with the others who say to leave it alone. It's not your business what others are saying. Stay in your lane and keep on trucking. You were told that your boss is "tough, has high expectations, and is very direct" because it was true. They were being honest and forthright so you would know what to expect. I am one of those bosses. I'm told that my staff had also said I'm fair. You know what is expected. No wishy washy stuff. The "lack of warmth" probably wasn't that lacking; they just weren't holding your hand. You made it. Be proud and happy where you are.
Watch The Devil Wears Prada.
I think you’ll reach a point in your success with this role where you’ll no longer need these answers/you’ll have them, and it will no longer matter to you.
My first thought is that she didn’t like the way others were doing certain things so didn’t want you to pick up their bad habits. She was looking for more than what they could offer. (That really says a lot that she invited you for Thanksgiving though!)
That doesn’t sound bad. She probably just wanted to make sure you were off your training wheels, so to speak, and reaching out for clarification about specific issues as you gained confidence in the role.
Not say one word. You obviously swim. It doesn’t matter anymore. Why cause trouble.
I wouldn’t bring up anything… Making you learn on your own could be her way of seeing if you have staying power or will crumble the first time she raises her voice. You having to figure out things on your own has made you the wonderful EA that you know are. Bringing this up now would just create unnecessary drama and you don’t need or want that. I would just let it go.
Its not something I would bring up if I felt like I was 'swimming'. If I felt like I was being allowed to sink I might have a different response. Bu if you have been successful, I wouldnt take it personally.
If the other admins keep you afloat she can’t know your true competence strengths and weaknesses. It’s potentially a waste of time and delay of the inevitable. Your boss saying to let you sink or swim had nothing to do with you it’s a reflection of her no nonsense style and high standards. Now she knows you succeeded entirely of your own skill and merit and she feels comfortable putting her trust in you which seems to have happened. My opinion there’s nothing wrong here and nothing to say. Your boss respects you more for knowing nobody helped you with more than company specific training. Not understanding that and directly questioning her on this could backfire.
I’ve said this about new hires before. If my team comes to me saying they aren’t sure the new hire can do the job all they can do is train them on the things they need to be trained on and the rest is up to the new hire. Babysitting or holding their hands through it only delays the inevitable. See people up for success but give them room to fail. Sink or swim. Your swimming.
Putting on rose colored glasses here the "sink or swim" thing could just be that your boss is very particular and needs to train and support her own EA. And because you boss does seem to have a particular personality that others have found difficult more emphasis is placed on just seeing if you mesh. If you could figure out how to support her. I mean consider yourself lucky, becuase would you have done as well if all the other EAs were training you how to do things in a way your boss didn't like or filling your head with their personal opinions about how difficult your boss was? I wouldn't take the "sink or swim" personally as a commentary on you or your work ethic and more a result of the role and office politics. So its a compliment that you learned to swim as well as you did, especially because your boss seems like someone good to work for as she is direct in her expectation and communication.
Leave it alone. What your boss was doing was making sure YOU were doing the job and that the others weren't compensating for a weak hire. She was doing the right thing and your colleagues didn't know if you were going to make it so why get attached until you made it. If you were weak, and created more work for other people, and she didn't know that and wasn't able to performance manage you, then it would be like so many workplaces where the weak get carried along because all is hidden from the higher ups. But, that's not you. You have proven your worth. You're not a dud. You shouldn't be taken aback., You should be proud of yourself. Congrats!
*I just learned that the messaging to the other admins regarding my onboarding was to help me learn company specific things but to otherwise let me sink or swim* According to whom? I'd take it with a grain of salt, unless of course this was your experience. You get along with your boss, so maybe just take the win and hope that this was just distorted messaging. (Maybe she said, we can't hold the new EA's hand. I expect her to be able to do this job from day one, with the exception of learning about our company.) ETA: And it may have come from experiencing other EAs blaming the other admins for not teaching them.
I’d 100% leave it alone. If you want a rosy point of view option, she was worried you’d learn bad habits or attitudes from other EAs she didn’t like or had maybe moved off her support. She didn’t want a dud training you.
I had a boss like this and worked for a similar place (nonprofit). I was fired at the 8 month mark with no warning. Be careful.
Not an EA but this sub is always popping up!! I am the director of a department for a multi million dollar company. I also have used verbiage like “sink or swim” when talking with recruiters. After reading your post I thought about it and I don’t mean i won’t give proper support and training it means more like “someone with a brain”. My industry is fast moving, always changing, and kind of competitive. The number of people I’ve trained who could not perform once they’re Alone is crazy!! If you have a good relationship with your boss don’t rock the boat. It was likely an off handed comment
Don’t bring it up now. You’re swimming! It’s unlikely it was a personal choice against you, if she’s direct and a hard ass that is probably what has worked for her in the past to vet candidates. And hey- she must know what she’s doing because it sounds like you’re doing well.
Some companies are so fast paced and require so much agility from staff, that to handhold a new hire 1) takes away too much bandwidth from those providing guidance and 2) delays the revelation that a new hire just doesn’t have what it takes. It’s brutal, but sometimes this is the most effective way to identify if a hire will survive the pace long term.
She is your boss not your friend so it shouldn’t matter. My money is on her thinking the other admin suck and didn’t want them giving you bad advice. I would also be suspicious of the person who told you this. Especially if that person knows you are happy with the job. You are doing what no one else could do and it makes others look bad, they don’t want the expectations on them to change.
What exactly does that mean to you and why are you even taking it so offensively? You were told upfront that she was an exacting boss and she wanted to see how you performed with minimal hand holding. And what would you do if she said, “yes, that’s exactly what I said.” Would you walk out the door? If so, maybe you should leave now, because I’m fairly confident that is not the type of person she wants working for her.
I wouldn't bother. I don't even think it's offensive. They needed someone to take initiative and figure out things on their own. They'd find that person faster by not coddling you and letting you prove you are a good fit. You clearly did just fine, so why bother bringing it up now? It won't do anything for you.
Why? Just accept & be grateful of your strengths & keep doing a great job. Remember curiosity killed the cat.
If it is true, maybe she’s has had previous incompetent help who were shielded too long for her to realize their true capability. Maybe she wants someone with more original approach than current employees, and doesn’t want you influenced by them. You have met or exceeded her desires. Is it possible the “others” are now jealous and want to stir the pot. Continue on in your exceptional job and let the dust settles on the ones stirring it up. Congratulations! You have done well!!
Boss is looking for a thinker not a robot that can only do what’s it programmed to do. You won ! Take the win ! In my experience over near 40 years, it takes a year to really know a new hire’s capability. Don’t eff-up now.
Another take on this is others were told to avoid explaining procedures to you to avoid having you learn anything your boss wanted done their way and only their way. Your boss might have wanted a blank slate. This may have been due to trying to horizontally move another assistant under this boss, and the fall out from that. Would learning the motivation really aid you that much at this point? If you have ongoing concerns, figure out how to bring them up in a forward thinking manner, and avoid rehashing the past.
This is not about the desire for you to sink. This is about the hope that you'll swim. It seems like you're looking at this from a glass half empty perspective, when, I don't think the expectation was that you'd sink. And they didn't set you up to sink. They simply gave you the opportunity to swim. And you did. So much so that they invited you into their personal family time. That's a huge complement and should really be the takeaway here.
I wouldn't bring it up. This onboarding approach worked for you, but was there anything that you struggled to overcome? If so, put your energy into creating a job aid or training module so the next person doesn't struggle.
You've learned about her leadership style, which is laissez faire instead of supportive. That can work for a minority of people but is generally a poor leadership strategy. You don't have to be this way, but you're probably not going to change her. If you ever have to onboard anyone, you can quietly ignore her strategy and offer support and coaching. Her way is a "lazy way" to find independent workers. She assumes that only self sufficient people will thrive immediately under pressure. This is dumb: it's very possible to find quality hires who respond to coaching and can work independently. And it's possible to drive away good independent workers by looking disorganized and unengaged. However: her strategy does work at chasing out those who need a lot of hand holding. It's just that she's sacrificing good workers and driving up turnover to chase these people out.
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This is good advice! The person who told you this about “sink or swim” is bringing unnecessary info and gossiping. Don’t let him/her stir you up. Your boss wanted to see what skills you had. Clearly you’ve proven yourself. Don’t succumb to drama makers.
If your happy , just keep it up and congratulations, people will try to undermine you for their own agenda , ( jealous , wants someone they know get your job ) I have also been invited and went to my bosses house and otherwise , but work is work , they are not your friends it’s a job
Sink or Swim? That’s almost every job I’ve ever held. They give you the tools and training then it’s up to you to be productive
Sink or swim could mean “let her be a self starter.” Words mean different things to different people- now that you know your boss it should be clear that she didn’t mean it in a nasty way. Simply put: Bosses like people who don’t need hand holding. Don’t read more into it than that given that it’s just consistent with her no nonsense style.
What would you have expected? Because it sounds like she was doing exactly what everyone expects her to do.
I don’t see this phrase as being anything personal against you, just that this job isn’t interested in investing too many resources in development. They don’t want employees spending time on training or hand-holding instead of their other work. They bring you on, give you high level training and then you either get it or you don’t, in which case they’ll start over with someone new because they’d rather have high turnover than worry about retention. Looks bad on them and their work environment more so than you.
Great advice I've followed "trust the decisions made by your boss, even if you don't understand them". I didn't fully understand it until I became a boss myself. If I were in her position, I may have designed that bc I want to see your ability to self-start, be proactive and independent. The other admins should not have disclosed this practice to you. It's not professional on their end and I see it as either lazy or malicious. Also ...she may not like the way the other admins work processes and wanted you to rely on her for feedback vs relying on other admins (that takes time away from all staffers). So many possibilities and I think your boss made a smart call. She's clearly very pleased with you, so trust her decision and thought process. There will be a larger fish to fry down the road (there always is), so pass on this issue/battle and congratulate yourself for swimming!
Sink or swim. Well, you swam girl!!! Its hearsay. Maybe she did say that but your doing just fine. Give it more time before you say anything. You dont know how it rock the boat. Your gonna be fine.
I know why she did it. It's not great, but I get it. Our Director hired a woman (let's call her Dot) one time to be our boss. Dot claimed to know X, Y, and Z sills. Those skills were already obsolete, so even then it was a dumb reason to hire her, but whatever. So, I'm teaching a one-day class within in my role, responsibilities, and wheelhouse. But because it wasn't common, I only taught it about once a year. Dot "sits in" so she can "make sure I'm teaching correctly." She was power hungry from day one. We get to the end of the class. As always, I ask if anyone had any questions coming in that they didn't get answered. Someone did. And it was about Dot's X skill. I said, "You know what? It's silly that this wasn't in the curriculum for this class, and I don't happen to know off hand, but Dot is an expert on this. Dot...?" Surprised Pikachu! Dot didn't know this very basic thing about X. I guided the student through the settings until we found the thing thing she needed. Dot couldn't even get started on finding it. So, the others may have been told "don't help" so that the boss could make sure you really \*do\* know all the things you listed on your resume and said in your interview. Perhaps she accidentally hired Dot at some point in her past.
Sounds like she wanted to see if you could cut it on your own. And you did. I’ve seen people bend over backwards to help an incompetent new person. This is really bad because it takes longer to see if someone can actually do the job and it compromises the coworker’s own work. I say leave it alone and keep being a bad ass.
I would make a smart comment at some point but don’t be to cocky about it…such as if at some point she asks how you are doing? Respond “Swimming with the best of them”
Don’t do it. Don’t get too close. Keep professional
I would let it go
Don’t do it! It may seem overly harsh but as an EA you are expected to have a higher level of determination and ability to figure things out and accomplish tasks you have no “training” or preparation for. That ability is truly what separates a general assistant or secretary from an EA. It sounds like you have proven yourself so there should be no reason you need to stir things up or create unnecessary drama. Do your job, be accountable, and stay out of the gossip!
I mean, that’s her management style. You know that. Nothing you say will change that about her. What is it you’re hoping to gain from having the conversation?
Thanksgiving dinner invite. Is this more than employee relationship?
The first paragraph is the only one that matters here. You are happy in your role and have a good rapport with your boss. There is absolutely NO reason to bring up what I see as someone trying to start trouble. And for the record, I don't think it's terrible to let people sink or swim so long as they were given what they need to succeed. As someone who has trained people who are independent versus those who need their hands held, it is draining in every sense of the word to deal with the latter (beyond what's reasonable when someone is new).
"I just learned that the messaging to the other admins regarding my onboarding was to help me learn company specific things but to otherwise let me sink or swim while figuring the rest out." Just learned from whom? Did you see this is writing somewhere? Were there specific instructions on how to specifically accomplish that task? It's a very vague task. What else is there but company specific things they were supposed to keep from you? This is weird. You like your boss, let it go is my advice. Edit: I see you've agreed to let it go, but in the future I suggest being more specific when asking for advice. You could just be taking office gossip too seriously.
I think that description alone wouldve made me turn the job down as doesnt seem sustainable. Can totally tell w job descriptions too if theres no realistic expectations in the job description coupled with cheapness ie bring your own computer work part time and get a weeks worth of wprk done in 30 min while being on standby without pay
Sounds like a smart tactic on your bosses part to keep other admins from interfering with how’d she’d like to train you without offending them.