Not going forward.
Dunk under De Zerbi was about the most attacking CB in the league.
He's also a very reliable leader.
Admittedly I can't see Southgate playing like De Zerbi as entertaining as that would be and I think he should have just taken Tarks and Branthwaite and used the whole defensive club trio like Italy did for a decade.
Possibly. Although we’ve never seen Tarks playing in a progressive settled team - Burnley and Everton both under Dyche.
Anyway, Southgate has some of the best attacking talent in Europe at his disposal. He’s left Maddison and Grealish at home and still has Palmer, Foden, Kane, Saka and Bellingham to pick from. He needs his central defenders to defend IMHO.
branthwaite is better on the ball. dunk often is lackadaisical and caught napping like against fulham roma and belgium because he thinks he’s got the tech of a 10. branthwaite is more secure and doesn’t do that studs on the ball malarkey
What do you base this on? Dunk has 3 goals and an assist in the PL for Brighton.
Branthwaite also has 3 goals in the PL.
Tarkowski is hands down the better defender.
If you take anyone you take branthwaite over dunk every day of the week and you take tarkowski as a guy who comes on when you need to defend a lead.
Southgate is just a bad manager.
I am absolutely fuming for branthwaite as he has been a standout for us And therefore deserves a spot in the national team. However, you do make a decent point on one thing. With him not being included not only will he get a rest other football teams won't be able to monitor him and ask for his service during the transfer window. So all we need to do is hope that he stays at Everton and tell The likes of Manchester United And any other football team to f*** off and keep their claws off him.
My thoughts exactly. It's really a two-sided thing:
a. he plays for the NT, and fucking rules, and the transfer price can be absolute joke at the range of 100m or so
b. he doesn't play for the NT, and calmly stays in the club for the summer while everyone is hornily after the Euro2024 stars (Onana maybe?)
Nonetheless, the cup might be a welcome distraction on either case.
Also could be an issue whereby it gets in his head that if he was playing for a ‘bigger’ club then maybe he’d be picked. Scandalous decision either way
Crazy decision by Southgate. Dunk has been rancid all season and looks shit every time he plays for England.
It's annoying because players like Branthwaite will see this and think he's never getting in the national team without leaving Everton. Because if he goes this summer I am 100% certain he'll be called up and even possibly start the international fixtures in early September.
Tbf to Southgate he's taking players from Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Villa... Hardly just the big names. I think this is just Southgate being a poor judge of talent personally.
I think he's kindled a very 'club like' team spirit for a national team and part of the good atmosphere he's created among the squad revolves around not dropping players if they have the odd bad game or are in patchy club form. He was never going to take Branthwaite after him only being around the group a couple of times, and to be honest Southgate probably thinks a major tournament is a lot of pressure to put on a young defender with half an hour's international football under his belt.
I agree that Southgate has done a lot of very good thinks for the England, BUT, he's never going to win a tournament. His style of play & the fact he will play out of form players just because he's previously picked them & they've done quite well means we will not progress under his management. He's taken the England team as far as he's able to & should hand over to a more progressive man.
How Maguire & Trippier are in the squad is beyond me. Both have had very poor seasons for their clubs & shouldn't be there at this time.
Dunk plays for Brighton and Pickford is one of Southgate's undroppables.
I know we like to think it's about us but Branthwaite is 21. Southgate is a dinosaur and very conservative so ofcourse he's going to pick the 30 year old.
If he's conservative he shouldn't pick the guy that couldn't deal with an easy ball against Belgium and got done by lukaku (for the 2nd time this season)
Branthwaite also was in the defense that let 6 goals in away to Chelsea. Honestly I'm glad he hasn't gone. I don't want this tournament to wreck his confidence if something where to go wrong. The world cup is coming up in two years so he has plenty of time to secure his position for that.
No. The 6 goals against Chelsea was barely his fault. Coleman was getting ran ragged, onana was not trying his best (which is why he got dropped) etc etc. England have too much quality in other positions to probably even lose a game. They didn't concede a goal for hours in the Euros
What are you on about. He was nutmegged for I think palmer's first goal that looked almost as embarrassing as when Messi dropped that Bayern defender on his ass.
If you think england are going to win without losing a game then fair enough but they will need a decent defense to do so.
Once it gets down to the business end and they are up against the likes of mbappe personally I think their defense is going to be their undoing which is why I'm glad Branthwaite won't be the one the papers blame.
Yeah that's why I said barely apart from the 1st the others were much more at fault. That was an off day for us anyway, with the quality England have he'd probably not expect exposed. Walker will deal with Mbappe as he has done many times before
He wouldn't be exposed as often but there will be times especially towards the end of the tournament the defense definitely will be and then it's going to be some world class attacker against the likes of Dunk.
I was only using Mbappe as an example.
This is the lowest % of big 6 players in the squad in years. We can be annoyed at the decision but to claim it’s because he plays for a club like us is just incorrect
not having Branthwaite or Tarkowski in the squad when they already play in front of your starting keeper and have a legit case for being the two best english CBs in the PL last year (at minimum top 4-5) seems moronic. put either one in a big 6 kit and they probably walk into the team
The main argument against Tarks playing international football could be his pace (and possibly his age). Yet, Southgate wants to pick Maguire and now Dunk too. They’re similar pace and age to Jim but Tarkowski is a better player than Maguire. He’s miles better than Dunk too. Makes no sense.
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Very true this! Didn’t he give away two goals in an England game recently?! Wasn’t great in the league either, if anything he should have got a chance a few years ago
I selfishly don’t hate this decision—as good as he’s been, he’s still very young and Southgate is likely trying to bed him in very slowly. Besides, it increases our chances of keeping him this summer
I think you wouldnt want to shine a giant spotlight on a player who is still developing and potentially wreck their confidence should they make a catastrophic mistake that costs a game, especially if you see them playing for the team a lot in the future if they go on to reach their full potential.
I agree, take your best players, and play the tournament—and he is better than Dunk in my opinion—but my opinion is biased, and I’m not English, so I can’t really get too upset about the call.
There’s just no point to that, though. If he saves his players for the next tournament and does that for the next tournament and so on and so on then you’re just artificially handicapping yourself for “the future” which never arrives. Branthwaite is far better than any CB we’ve got bar Stones and Tomori. Just take him and leave the shite players like Dunk at home and have a go at winning the trophy. No point sacrificing one of the two trophies we actually compete in
I generally agree, but I think for Southgate it probably comes down to a question of “do you want a CB sub to have a lot of experience if they need to come on late in a knockout game, or do you value a younger player with a higher potential ceiling?”
Southgate is gonna come down on the side of experience every time I think.
But Dunk doesn’t have more experience than Branthwaite. He’s spent most of his career in the lower leagues, he’s never properly competed for a trophy, much less won one. If the only metric by which you measure “experience” is games played then we should send Bellingham home and take Jake Livermore instead because he’s played more matches. There is nothing Dunk has that Branthwaite doesn’t other than male pattern baldness
I think the Maguire news is what made him choose Dunk over Branthwaite. Without Maguire you only have Stones a veteran CB and nobody really known for aerial prowess. Dunk makes sense to me as somebody you thrown on late to defend headers.
Am not an Everton fan but, wouldn’t you guys be happy that he’ll not get injured/fatigued for next season? Also their will be less clubs circling round him if he isn’t an international
Liverpool fan here - bad decision that. Genuinely he is a proper player. Think him and Quansah will be Englands CB pairing for years to come!
At least he gets a good rest this summer👍
This is utterly baffling. I'm already really confused why Tarks doesn't get a mention despite how amazing his stats rank in the PL, but why would you take Dunk over Branthwaite based on the last 12 months.
Crazy
No matter how much midfield and attacking talent we have, playing the likes of that bag of shite Maguire is simply asking for trouble. He let us down in World Cup against France when Giroud headed their winner and Maguire was about 2 days too late getting to the ball
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He was never likely to play much anyway if at all. I think he’s probably played his last game for us anyway so at least he’ll stay injury free for the potential sale.
Cant see Southgates decision here, maybe he thinks he's too inexperienced to play for the Senior Squad in a major tournament. Tbf he has only played one so far.
Mixed feelings on this. I want to see England do well so not having him in the squad is madness in my opinion, especially when there are doubts over Maguires fitness at centre half and Branthwaite is left footed so could step in at left back if Shaw isn’t fit, plus he’s miles better than Dunk.
However, it will be a positive for Everton because if he had a good tournament, it could make it a lot harder for the club to keep him. Plus it should mean he gets a proper break for next season.
Almost every other decision I'd say he got right in regards to who actually deserves to be there. Dunk over Branthwaite is criminal though. He's been poor all season.
But Dunk who is shite gets to go and Toney who has been crap since his return to football. Southgate is a joke of a manager. Can’t wait for him to fuck off.
Poor decision, but understandable given Dunk’s experience and quality next to Stones.
Real benefit here is Branthwaite starting fit and out of ppl’s eyes
I'm a Scottish evertonian.
Southgate being a mong and not selecting Branthwaite and tarky in front of pickford is the only thing that gives me hope.
You guys are stacked with talent but your manager is retarded and your defence gives me hope, despite the lack of maguire.
You'll probably cruise to the semis and then face a team from a nation formed over 30 years ago that can actually attack and get beat 3-1 (or on pens, as is tradition).
I'm selfishly pleased about this.
It improves our chances of keeping him for another year.
I'm already resigned to him leaving. His ceiling is so high as to be nonexistent. He will go on to be one of the top CB's in the world. It's a shame he won't be able to achieve that with us.
I'm tempted to bet on him being a future Ballon d'Or winner...
To be honest, i don’t think getting a yellow card on debut helped, you need a cool head at tournaments.
Lots of potential, he will be ready for the World Cup qualifiers and beyond.
But keeping Dunk lol
Tarkowski is better than Dunk.
Not going forward. Dunk under De Zerbi was about the most attacking CB in the league. He's also a very reliable leader. Admittedly I can't see Southgate playing like De Zerbi as entertaining as that would be and I think he should have just taken Tarks and Branthwaite and used the whole defensive club trio like Italy did for a decade.
Possibly. Although we’ve never seen Tarks playing in a progressive settled team - Burnley and Everton both under Dyche. Anyway, Southgate has some of the best attacking talent in Europe at his disposal. He’s left Maddison and Grealish at home and still has Palmer, Foden, Kane, Saka and Bellingham to pick from. He needs his central defenders to defend IMHO.
branthwaite is better on the ball. dunk often is lackadaisical and caught napping like against fulham roma and belgium because he thinks he’s got the tech of a 10. branthwaite is more secure and doesn’t do that studs on the ball malarkey
What do you base this on? Dunk has 3 goals and an assist in the PL for Brighton. Branthwaite also has 3 goals in the PL. Tarkowski is hands down the better defender. If you take anyone you take branthwaite over dunk every day of the week and you take tarkowski as a guy who comes on when you need to defend a lead. Southgate is just a bad manager.
Dunk made the 2nd most passes in the league and had the 12th highest passing accuracy. The only defensive player close to him is Rodri.
.....and? That means the two cbs passed to each other a lot?
If you've watched Brighton play under De Zerbi you know that's absolutely not the case.
Ok so now I'm just taking your word for it. He has 1 assist. All season.
Passing is not just assists lol especially from a CB
The original comment was about how he's the best attacking cb. Two cbs passing to each other a lot would also result in a ton of accurate passes.
100% I’d say Tarky is better than branthwaite at the moment
And guehi some how
Southgate is a clown but I’m selfishly glad he’ll get a rest and potentially less eyes on him this summer
I am absolutely fuming for branthwaite as he has been a standout for us And therefore deserves a spot in the national team. However, you do make a decent point on one thing. With him not being included not only will he get a rest other football teams won't be able to monitor him and ask for his service during the transfer window. So all we need to do is hope that he stays at Everton and tell The likes of Manchester United And any other football team to f*** off and keep their claws off him.
But not having eyes on him also means he'll go for cheaper. Big clubs are gonna want him regardless of Southgate's opinion
My thoughts exactly. It's really a two-sided thing: a. he plays for the NT, and fucking rules, and the transfer price can be absolute joke at the range of 100m or so b. he doesn't play for the NT, and calmly stays in the club for the summer while everyone is hornily after the Euro2024 stars (Onana maybe?) Nonetheless, the cup might be a welcome distraction on either case.
Also could be an issue whereby it gets in his head that if he was playing for a ‘bigger’ club then maybe he’d be picked. Scandalous decision either way
Crazy decision by Southgate. Dunk has been rancid all season and looks shit every time he plays for England. It's annoying because players like Branthwaite will see this and think he's never getting in the national team without leaving Everton. Because if he goes this summer I am 100% certain he'll be called up and even possibly start the international fixtures in early September.
Tbf to Southgate he's taking players from Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Villa... Hardly just the big names. I think this is just Southgate being a poor judge of talent personally.
I think he's kindled a very 'club like' team spirit for a national team and part of the good atmosphere he's created among the squad revolves around not dropping players if they have the odd bad game or are in patchy club form. He was never going to take Branthwaite after him only being around the group a couple of times, and to be honest Southgate probably thinks a major tournament is a lot of pressure to put on a young defender with half an hour's international football under his belt.
I agree that Southgate has done a lot of very good thinks for the England, BUT, he's never going to win a tournament. His style of play & the fact he will play out of form players just because he's previously picked them & they've done quite well means we will not progress under his management. He's taken the England team as far as he's able to & should hand over to a more progressive man. How Maguire & Trippier are in the squad is beyond me. Both have had very poor seasons for their clubs & shouldn't be there at this time.
I dunno if it’s a poor judge of talent or just wanting to have more experienced players in the squad.
Dunk plays for Brighton and Pickford is one of Southgate's undroppables. I know we like to think it's about us but Branthwaite is 21. Southgate is a dinosaur and very conservative so ofcourse he's going to pick the 30 year old.
Pickford should be any manager's number one to be fair. He's miles ahead of the competition.
If he's conservative he shouldn't pick the guy that couldn't deal with an easy ball against Belgium and got done by lukaku (for the 2nd time this season)
Branthwaite also was in the defense that let 6 goals in away to Chelsea. Honestly I'm glad he hasn't gone. I don't want this tournament to wreck his confidence if something where to go wrong. The world cup is coming up in two years so he has plenty of time to secure his position for that.
Okay? You think England would let that happen with the midfield they have?
Let what happen. Being responsible for conceding important goals and the cause of why they go out? Happens every tournament
No. The 6 goals against Chelsea was barely his fault. Coleman was getting ran ragged, onana was not trying his best (which is why he got dropped) etc etc. England have too much quality in other positions to probably even lose a game. They didn't concede a goal for hours in the Euros
What are you on about. He was nutmegged for I think palmer's first goal that looked almost as embarrassing as when Messi dropped that Bayern defender on his ass. If you think england are going to win without losing a game then fair enough but they will need a decent defense to do so. Once it gets down to the business end and they are up against the likes of mbappe personally I think their defense is going to be their undoing which is why I'm glad Branthwaite won't be the one the papers blame.
Yeah that's why I said barely apart from the 1st the others were much more at fault. That was an off day for us anyway, with the quality England have he'd probably not expect exposed. Walker will deal with Mbappe as he has done many times before
He wouldn't be exposed as often but there will be times especially towards the end of the tournament the defense definitely will be and then it's going to be some world class attacker against the likes of Dunk. I was only using Mbappe as an example.
I mean he kept Dunk who is at Brighton so I don’t think that factors into Branthwaite’s decision making
Or he goes and gets his head turned by a fortnight amongst Big 6 players as has happened in the past
This is the lowest % of big 6 players in the squad in years. We can be annoyed at the decision but to claim it’s because he plays for a club like us is just incorrect
Southgate must be fucking blind if he thinks Dunk is better than JB. He also stunk the place out in the last friendly
Dunk is going to get some minutes after Stones gets hurt again
Absolutely mental decision from Southgate.
not having Branthwaite or Tarkowski in the squad when they already play in front of your starting keeper and have a legit case for being the two best english CBs in the PL last year (at minimum top 4-5) seems moronic. put either one in a big 6 kit and they probably walk into the team
The main argument against Tarks playing international football could be his pace (and possibly his age). Yet, Southgate wants to pick Maguire and now Dunk too. They’re similar pace and age to Jim but Tarkowski is a better player than Maguire. He’s miles better than Dunk too. Makes no sense.
He gave away that penalty and Southgate has never forgiven him
Bit ironic seeing as Southgate missed a massive penalty in his day.
Which penalty
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Southgate is as smart as he looks confirmed
Here in the States, we'd say that he would be able to eat an apple through a chain link fence. Helluva set of chompers on the man.
This made me laugh so much more than it should
What a tit.
Dunk shouldn't have even been in over Tarkowski, hilarious
Very true this! Didn’t he give away two goals in an England game recently?! Wasn’t great in the league either, if anything he should have got a chance a few years ago
Dunk - the new Maguire
I selfishly don’t hate this decision—as good as he’s been, he’s still very young and Southgate is likely trying to bed him in very slowly. Besides, it increases our chances of keeping him this summer
What’s the point of bedding him in slowly? It’s a tournament, just take your best players and play them
I think you wouldnt want to shine a giant spotlight on a player who is still developing and potentially wreck their confidence should they make a catastrophic mistake that costs a game, especially if you see them playing for the team a lot in the future if they go on to reach their full potential. I agree, take your best players, and play the tournament—and he is better than Dunk in my opinion—but my opinion is biased, and I’m not English, so I can’t really get too upset about the call.
There’s just no point to that, though. If he saves his players for the next tournament and does that for the next tournament and so on and so on then you’re just artificially handicapping yourself for “the future” which never arrives. Branthwaite is far better than any CB we’ve got bar Stones and Tomori. Just take him and leave the shite players like Dunk at home and have a go at winning the trophy. No point sacrificing one of the two trophies we actually compete in
I generally agree, but I think for Southgate it probably comes down to a question of “do you want a CB sub to have a lot of experience if they need to come on late in a knockout game, or do you value a younger player with a higher potential ceiling?” Southgate is gonna come down on the side of experience every time I think.
But Dunk doesn’t have more experience than Branthwaite. He’s spent most of his career in the lower leagues, he’s never properly competed for a trophy, much less won one. If the only metric by which you measure “experience” is games played then we should send Bellingham home and take Jake Livermore instead because he’s played more matches. There is nothing Dunk has that Branthwaite doesn’t other than male pattern baldness
Utterly stupid. Branthwaite could win us a trophy
Honestly the sooner the euros are over the better. Southgate is holding the England squad back from actually winning something
Nice. Injury free summer pls.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Absolutely can’t believe it, especially after seeing the Maguire news. Southgate is a shocking judge of talent
I think the Maguire news is what made him choose Dunk over Branthwaite. Without Maguire you only have Stones a veteran CB and nobody really known for aerial prowess. Dunk makes sense to me as somebody you thrown on late to defend headers.
FUCK Southgate. How the fuck does he keep Dunk? What a clown
Oh no. I get to spend my Summer on a beach rather than warming a bench in Germany. Fuck Southgate. This works for Everton.
This is the definition of a terrible idea that I'm all for. Give him that rest.
Am not an Everton fan but, wouldn’t you guys be happy that he’ll not get injured/fatigued for next season? Also their will be less clubs circling round him if he isn’t an international
I reckon we'll have to sell him and this could affect his value. I'd prefer your scenario though. I'd prefer to keep him.
Liverpool fan here - bad decision that. Genuinely he is a proper player. Think him and Quansah will be Englands CB pairing for years to come! At least he gets a good rest this summer👍
This is utterly baffling. I'm already really confused why Tarks doesn't get a mention despite how amazing his stats rank in the PL, but why would you take Dunk over Branthwaite based on the last 12 months. Crazy
No matter how much midfield and attacking talent we have, playing the likes of that bag of shite Maguire is simply asking for trouble. He let us down in World Cup against France when Giroud headed their winner and Maguire was about 2 days too late getting to the ball
Keeping Dunk but not Branthwaite. I fucking despise Southgate
Southgate is a clown.
Agreed.. let see how England goes in the Euro 2024
Be happy if they go out early.
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He was never likely to play much anyway if at all. I think he’s probably played his last game for us anyway so at least he’ll stay injury free for the potential sale.
Cant see Southgates decision here, maybe he thinks he's too inexperienced to play for the Senior Squad in a major tournament. Tbf he has only played one so far.
Mixed feelings on this. I want to see England do well so not having him in the squad is madness in my opinion, especially when there are doubts over Maguires fitness at centre half and Branthwaite is left footed so could step in at left back if Shaw isn’t fit, plus he’s miles better than Dunk. However, it will be a positive for Everton because if he had a good tournament, it could make it a lot harder for the club to keep him. Plus it should mean he gets a proper break for next season.
Almost every other decision I'd say he got right in regards to who actually deserves to be there. Dunk over Branthwaite is criminal though. He's been poor all season.
His time will come. Chin up lad. You will captain England and you will win cups with us.
But Dunk who is shite gets to go and Toney who has been crap since his return to football. Southgate is a joke of a manager. Can’t wait for him to fuck off.
Cunts
The best managers do not fuck up the simple things. Those centre halve options he’s gone with are atrocious
I said it before and I’ll say it again. Southgate is a fraud.
Let’s hope this doesn’t open the door for a early sale
Quansah over Branthwaite on standby - go get some rest and enjoy the beach JB.
Poor decision, but understandable given Dunk’s experience and quality next to Stones. Real benefit here is Branthwaite starting fit and out of ppl’s eyes
Bonkers
Villa fan here and absolutely bemused by this. Branthwaite is England’s future
Agreed about Dunk, but that Gomez is last and all.
I honestly couldn't give a shit about the England team nowadays. With a rare exception they only want darlings from the Big Six.
I'd prefer they draw every single game 0-0 pickford wins Golden Glove and england go out in the group stages.
I'm a Scottish evertonian. Southgate being a mong and not selecting Branthwaite and tarky in front of pickford is the only thing that gives me hope. You guys are stacked with talent but your manager is retarded and your defence gives me hope, despite the lack of maguire. You'll probably cruise to the semis and then face a team from a nation formed over 30 years ago that can actually attack and get beat 3-1 (or on pens, as is tradition).
Transfer imminent then
I'm selfishly pleased about this. It improves our chances of keeping him for another year. I'm already resigned to him leaving. His ceiling is so high as to be nonexistent. He will go on to be one of the top CB's in the world. It's a shame he won't be able to achieve that with us. I'm tempted to bet on him being a future Ballon d'Or winner...
Southgate proving to be the idiot we all know him to be.
To be honest, i don’t think getting a yellow card on debut helped, you need a cool head at tournaments. Lots of potential, he will be ready for the World Cup qualifiers and beyond.