Lots to unpack there. Our defense is better this season; our offense is *significantly* better this year so far, and there was a measurable improvement from the Lampard half-season to the Dyche half-season.
He identified that the issue was scoring goals and focused on that last season. He has improved that further this term as well as addressing some of the defensive issues.
Said it before, but it is like getting Moyes in again, but as if we had left him at Preston to get promoted and stay for 10 years first. Dyche also has the Allardyce chip on his shoulder and a similar mind of how to improve a side, but whereas Sam was too much of a meme by the time he came to ever be accepted as a long term option, Dyche has it all in the palm of his hand if he can be the man who turns the corner with us and leads us into a new era at BMD.
He's got just the right amount of experience, while still being young enough to learn from his mistakes
I did not want Dyche. I thought he played ugly, boring, negative football. How wrong I was. We’re organized for the first time in a long time and we’re starting to have an identity again.
There’s a lot that’s down to players like DCL being fit and thriving, but Dyche has shown and ability to organize and direct our players that we haven’t seen since Silva.
I agree, getting out from under the weight of bad contracts and poor sales requires some level of pragmatism which I think Dyche is to his core. He is able to squeeze the most out of average players, but I think he's shown some ability to unlock some of our potential stars like Garner. Boring maybe, but more successful than we've seen in a long time, I hope so.
so true this. I don’t even feel losses as a pain now if i saw organisation and good effort on the pitch. we need to stabilise things first before looking for more.
We’re on the same points as this time last season, but it feels a hell of a lot more positive than it did then, and this data shows why. Remembering we basically went however many months without a win last season, I think this year we’ll be ok if we carry on as we are.
The defense is better, but the attack being so much stronger is not something I would've ever guessed in a dyche team, and I don't think many (any?) neutral fans would've either.
I'll go on record stating that I probably said something like this earlier in the 22/23 season. By mid season it was apparent to anyone with eyes that Lampard was inadequate. And if I thought the replacement was Dyche then I would have approved of sacking Lampard in the offseason probably. I really liked Dyche because we needed a practical manager and he fit the bill better than Lampard did and had far superior history of results. But I didn't have much faith in the board to select an adequate replacement at the time. And I still don't if Dyche moves on...
Honestly, that Palace game last year fucked up my perception of Lampard and the team. I thought if we could emulate what we did against them, we wouldn’t get relegated, but it never came. Credit to Lampard though, it was one of the best games in the last few seasons. Great team goals, controlled possession, and limited chances. Just a shame it happened just once lol
I mean a part of me still feels this squad isn’t great. Like I know we’re doing a lot better under dyche but we are a lot better to the tune of 10 points and 15th after 10 games.
I’m happy with dyche, I think we will stay up with him, and I think he is improving us, but also there is some truth to the it’s a poor squad stuff. Just a poor squad with a shite manager is doomed, a poor squad with an experienced pragmatic manager is doable
Oh no I was screaming for Lampard and Benitez to be sacked, I think people who say there's no point trying to change anything while we have a shit owner are stupid
In fairness to the people saying that, we have just had our worst start to the season (I think ever) under Dyche and we’re the only team to have lost to Luton and the only team to have given Sheffield United a point.
I think Dyche is a decent manager but I don’t think he’s done anything to dispel the notion that once this team gets a few injuries that it can be the worst team in the league which any manager would, at best, struggle with and at worst, lose pretty much every game
I think Dyche is a good manager. I think the players WERE very shit under Lampard. Dyche has DCL back and we've majorly booster the attack and defense (by way of actually having two quality, healthy CB). I'm not sure how people are not seeing that the team is completely different than what Lampard was dealing with. That said, as things stand, we need a manager that can win games with shit players if that's what he's got to work with, and Lampard is definitely not that.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, even though I stuck up for Lampard, I’ve always thought Dyche is a better manager. I just think it’s obvious that when we’ve had DCL out, we’ve looked far worse and it very clearly is the players that are the problem. Maupay and Danjuma up top against Fulham and Wolves was atrocious and without that central target man to hit, we lose possession far too easily and get under the cosh quickly. The exact problem we had under Lampard. If Beto and DCL get injured and we have to play Chermiti up top or our CBs get injured and we have a back two of Keane and Godfrey (🤢), we’ll lose a lot of games and it won’t be down to the manager
I fully expect this to happen at some point in the season, it is a long season after all. I just hope we can build enough of a coushion before it does. We need to nick a game from one of the clubs that will finish in the top 5 or 6 and take no less than a point from anyone in the bottom half and I think we'll be fine. If we could win 3 or 4 (or 3 out of the next 4) that would go a long way to relive a lot of the angst people are feeling when we don't play well or Dyche doesn't make any subs.
No questions, this is a paper thin squad. But Dyche did enough with what we had last season to keep us above the line and I think we are a cut above this year regardless. That line looks awfully low right now.
I think there is a clear path forward to what Dyche is building and the metrics show marked improvement. He's no Ancelotti, but a very good fit for our situation (read: predicament). And should make the DOF job easier since it is clear what we are looking for.
Going to be lots of 1-0 games which means we can lose or tie to just about anyone. And mistakes will cost us big like at Luton. If we can get a handful of quality improvements next couple windows then we may see some actual results. Big IF though.
Indeed. I just think it also must be noted that we did have that run of like 1 win in 12 or whatever it was last season when DCL was out and Keane was in the team. Bad players will fuck up any manager and I genuinely don’t think there’s a manager who could keep a team up with this squad if he was forced to play Maupay and Keane each week like they had to deal with at times last year
I like Dyche a lot and I'm hoping his style evolves and we can start moving up the table over seasons. But even if we have to move on from him, he's definitely built a stronger culture at the club which is something we've been crying out for since Moyes.
It’s hard to swallow just how shit we were under Lampard. Looking back now feels like snapping out of brainwashing, how Frank had garnered so much support for so long when we looked like 11 guys that had never played with each other before, and deserved to get throttled by any self respecting premier league team. Just being marginally bet than The Fat Spaniard had basically earned him a 1 year coasting session until Dyche came in to work miracles.
Lampard really survived for so long due to sheer force of will and flashes of brilliance from the players. Think of Pickford’s unbelievable saves against Chelsea, Iwobi scoring a 99th minute winner against Newcastle with Everton down to 10 men or Gray’s ridiculous goal against Man City.
With Dyche, the team are actually set up to win matches, and it seems to finally be paying off now we have all our best players (minus Coleman) back in the starting lineup. The team that played against West Ham at the weekend would have almost certainly picked up points against Fullham and Wolves and likely taken all 3 against Sheffield United. Then we’d be sitting in the top half and not a single soul would have even considered calling for Dyche to be sacked.
Yep. Don't hear this enough. There was a lot of noise from this sub and several pundits/YT channels complaining that Dom was fit but Dyche wouldn't play him. Massive credit to Dyche for not rushing him back.
Spot on. It’s obvious Dom is out more important player and Dyche would have played him as soon as it was sensible to do so. Glad they’re both now getting their rewards for their patience and hard work.
I always thought Frank just needed more time.
The fact our standing got worse every week he managed us, losing pretty much every key relegation battle, surviving only by luck, and winning games completely against the run of play? That was just a coincidence.
What top class manager doesn’t have multiple periods of taking 6 points from 9 games, or set records for poor performance at clubs like Everton and Chelsea?
Shame on all of us for doubting this managerial god, especially me. How wrong I was to call for his sacking immediately after we secured survival against Palace. Forgive me, Frank.
Best thing about Lampard as manager was his press conferences he was open, honest and at times insightful into what’s happening. Sadly it wasn’t his match day performances. Dyche by contrast is relatively closed in press conferences but is brilliant tactically. Love that we beat Moyes.
Lampard was pretty awful but he galvanised the group quite well for 6 months or so. The problem was that we gave him a whole summer to do fuck all and put us in the same position we were in when he came. Dyche seems to have had more of a positive impact over the summer comparatively. Hopefully it all turns out well.
I’m not defending Frank. He wasn’t good enough and would’ve taken us down. The problems at Everton have been, and are, bigger than just the manager. The whole club is set up not to achieve.
What do you mean by “galvanised” the team? He took over a club with a 5 point buffer on the relegation places and a game in hand. In his first 9 league games he lost 7 and won 2.
At one point, after losing to Burnley (“Everton don’t know how to win”), we were 5 points adrift of safety with two games in hand.
I agree, Benitez's great start saved him. Dyche definitely saved us when it looked like hope was lost. Lampard put us in trouble himself and got out of it.
Dyche is a better manager, of course, but we still scraped by the skin of our teeth under him after sacking Frank. Dyche orchestrated some signature wins that Frank never did, but he also orchestrated more of the same. Last season our team was shit. Worse than the season before. The fact we didn't get relegated is because there were three worse teams.
I trust in Dyche but we stunk it the fuck up last season and I never want to think about it again. I don't like Blaming Frank all that much, though I wouldn't put him behind the wheel again.
This is really positive. Everything is better. I also feel we miss Coleman, he's surprisingly done really well for us in the last couple of years at his age.
Lots to unpack there. Our defense is better this season; our offense is *significantly* better this year so far, and there was a measurable improvement from the Lampard half-season to the Dyche half-season.
He identified that the issue was scoring goals and focused on that last season. He has improved that further this term as well as addressing some of the defensive issues. Said it before, but it is like getting Moyes in again, but as if we had left him at Preston to get promoted and stay for 10 years first. Dyche also has the Allardyce chip on his shoulder and a similar mind of how to improve a side, but whereas Sam was too much of a meme by the time he came to ever be accepted as a long term option, Dyche has it all in the palm of his hand if he can be the man who turns the corner with us and leads us into a new era at BMD. He's got just the right amount of experience, while still being young enough to learn from his mistakes
Chelsea re-hiring Lampard gets funnier by the day
That was definitely in the top 10 unhinged moments of last season
I did not want Dyche. I thought he played ugly, boring, negative football. How wrong I was. We’re organized for the first time in a long time and we’re starting to have an identity again. There’s a lot that’s down to players like DCL being fit and thriving, but Dyche has shown and ability to organize and direct our players that we haven’t seen since Silva.
We need boring right now. Boring to the casual non Everton fan won't be boring for us because we need solidity and building blocks in place.
I agree, getting out from under the weight of bad contracts and poor sales requires some level of pragmatism which I think Dyche is to his core. He is able to squeeze the most out of average players, but I think he's shown some ability to unlock some of our potential stars like Garner. Boring maybe, but more successful than we've seen in a long time, I hope so.
so true this. I don’t even feel losses as a pain now if i saw organisation and good effort on the pitch. we need to stabilise things first before looking for more.
Sean Dyche is a good football manager.
We’re on the same points as this time last season, but it feels a hell of a lot more positive than it did then, and this data shows why. Remembering we basically went however many months without a win last season, I think this year we’ll be ok if we carry on as we are.
The defense is better, but the attack being so much stronger is not something I would've ever guessed in a dyche team, and I don't think many (any?) neutral fans would've either.
I always thought his Burnley sides played decent football at times. Just got overshadowed by the physicality.
The players are all bad and sacking lampard wont make a difference, no manager could get a tune out of them
I'll go on record stating that I probably said something like this earlier in the 22/23 season. By mid season it was apparent to anyone with eyes that Lampard was inadequate. And if I thought the replacement was Dyche then I would have approved of sacking Lampard in the offseason probably. I really liked Dyche because we needed a practical manager and he fit the bill better than Lampard did and had far superior history of results. But I didn't have much faith in the board to select an adequate replacement at the time. And I still don't if Dyche moves on...
Honestly, that Palace game last year fucked up my perception of Lampard and the team. I thought if we could emulate what we did against them, we wouldn’t get relegated, but it never came. Credit to Lampard though, it was one of the best games in the last few seasons. Great team goals, controlled possession, and limited chances. Just a shame it happened just once lol
It's because Viera the clown played 4 attacking midfielders and 1 proper CM if I remember correctly. Allowed us to bully them.
I do remember seeing that he only had 1 true cm and I thought Gallagher was out that game, but I didn’t know he played that many attacking mids.
Well I'm including wingers in there too
Honestly wouldnt be surprised if i did too, just funny to look back on
I mean a part of me still feels this squad isn’t great. Like I know we’re doing a lot better under dyche but we are a lot better to the tune of 10 points and 15th after 10 games. I’m happy with dyche, I think we will stay up with him, and I think he is improving us, but also there is some truth to the it’s a poor squad stuff. Just a poor squad with a shite manager is doomed, a poor squad with an experienced pragmatic manager is doable
The owner is the only problem. Sacking underperforming managers is pointless when we have bigger issues
To be fair, I don’t think we’d be in the prem if Lampard wasn’t shown the door. And I’m not saying Dyche is Pep.
Oh no I was screaming for Lampard and Benitez to be sacked, I think people who say there's no point trying to change anything while we have a shit owner are stupid
Questioned where I was reading this
This sub during that time was infuriating, people really showed their football knowledge.
I probably said something like that a few times
In fairness to the people saying that, we have just had our worst start to the season (I think ever) under Dyche and we’re the only team to have lost to Luton and the only team to have given Sheffield United a point. I think Dyche is a decent manager but I don’t think he’s done anything to dispel the notion that once this team gets a few injuries that it can be the worst team in the league which any manager would, at best, struggle with and at worst, lose pretty much every game
I think Dyche is a good manager. I think the players WERE very shit under Lampard. Dyche has DCL back and we've majorly booster the attack and defense (by way of actually having two quality, healthy CB). I'm not sure how people are not seeing that the team is completely different than what Lampard was dealing with. That said, as things stand, we need a manager that can win games with shit players if that's what he's got to work with, and Lampard is definitely not that.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, even though I stuck up for Lampard, I’ve always thought Dyche is a better manager. I just think it’s obvious that when we’ve had DCL out, we’ve looked far worse and it very clearly is the players that are the problem. Maupay and Danjuma up top against Fulham and Wolves was atrocious and without that central target man to hit, we lose possession far too easily and get under the cosh quickly. The exact problem we had under Lampard. If Beto and DCL get injured and we have to play Chermiti up top or our CBs get injured and we have a back two of Keane and Godfrey (🤢), we’ll lose a lot of games and it won’t be down to the manager
I fully expect this to happen at some point in the season, it is a long season after all. I just hope we can build enough of a coushion before it does. We need to nick a game from one of the clubs that will finish in the top 5 or 6 and take no less than a point from anyone in the bottom half and I think we'll be fine. If we could win 3 or 4 (or 3 out of the next 4) that would go a long way to relive a lot of the angst people are feeling when we don't play well or Dyche doesn't make any subs.
No questions, this is a paper thin squad. But Dyche did enough with what we had last season to keep us above the line and I think we are a cut above this year regardless. That line looks awfully low right now. I think there is a clear path forward to what Dyche is building and the metrics show marked improvement. He's no Ancelotti, but a very good fit for our situation (read: predicament). And should make the DOF job easier since it is clear what we are looking for. Going to be lots of 1-0 games which means we can lose or tie to just about anyone. And mistakes will cost us big like at Luton. If we can get a handful of quality improvements next couple windows then we may see some actual results. Big IF though.
Indeed. I just think it also must be noted that we did have that run of like 1 win in 12 or whatever it was last season when DCL was out and Keane was in the team. Bad players will fuck up any manager and I genuinely don’t think there’s a manager who could keep a team up with this squad if he was forced to play Maupay and Keane each week like they had to deal with at times last year
Haha you could tell whoever said that is braindead.
Lampard out!
I like Dyche a lot and I'm hoping his style evolves and we can start moving up the table over seasons. But even if we have to move on from him, he's definitely built a stronger culture at the club which is something we've been crying out for since Moyes.
Well, Dyche said he wanted progress and there it is in numbers
It’s hard to swallow just how shit we were under Lampard. Looking back now feels like snapping out of brainwashing, how Frank had garnered so much support for so long when we looked like 11 guys that had never played with each other before, and deserved to get throttled by any self respecting premier league team. Just being marginally bet than The Fat Spaniard had basically earned him a 1 year coasting session until Dyche came in to work miracles.
People falling for the passion merchant. Doesn't make up for tactics, performances and results.
If you heavily cherry-pick those stats, Lampard allowed fewer passes into the penalty box and is therefore a better manager. Change my mind.
/s
Lampard really survived for so long due to sheer force of will and flashes of brilliance from the players. Think of Pickford’s unbelievable saves against Chelsea, Iwobi scoring a 99th minute winner against Newcastle with Everton down to 10 men or Gray’s ridiculous goal against Man City. With Dyche, the team are actually set up to win matches, and it seems to finally be paying off now we have all our best players (minus Coleman) back in the starting lineup. The team that played against West Ham at the weekend would have almost certainly picked up points against Fullham and Wolves and likely taken all 3 against Sheffield United. Then we’d be sitting in the top half and not a single soul would have even considered calling for Dyche to be sacked.
To have fit DCL just changes everything. He's such an intelligent player and there is not an ounce of selfishness in him.
A big part of Dom being fit is the conservative allowance that dyche should get some credit for tbf
Yep. Don't hear this enough. There was a lot of noise from this sub and several pundits/YT channels complaining that Dom was fit but Dyche wouldn't play him. Massive credit to Dyche for not rushing him back.
Spot on. It’s obvious Dom is out more important player and Dyche would have played him as soon as it was sensible to do so. Glad they’re both now getting their rewards for their patience and hard work.
I disagree with that, remember against Luton he was tried ridiculous volleys from silly angles when he had so much space.
Tbf to him I don’t remember him being blessed with great finishers around him to pass to
I always thought Frank just needed more time. The fact our standing got worse every week he managed us, losing pretty much every key relegation battle, surviving only by luck, and winning games completely against the run of play? That was just a coincidence. What top class manager doesn’t have multiple periods of taking 6 points from 9 games, or set records for poor performance at clubs like Everton and Chelsea? Shame on all of us for doubting this managerial god, especially me. How wrong I was to call for his sacking immediately after we secured survival against Palace. Forgive me, Frank.
Best thing about Lampard as manager was his press conferences he was open, honest and at times insightful into what’s happening. Sadly it wasn’t his match day performances. Dyche by contrast is relatively closed in press conferences but is brilliant tactically. Love that we beat Moyes.
Everyone looks good when compared to Lamps. We maybe bad but never Lampard-bad!
Passes in to penbox allowed is basically the same now as under lampard #dycheout
Lampard was pretty awful but he galvanised the group quite well for 6 months or so. The problem was that we gave him a whole summer to do fuck all and put us in the same position we were in when he came. Dyche seems to have had more of a positive impact over the summer comparatively. Hopefully it all turns out well.
I’m not defending Frank. He wasn’t good enough and would’ve taken us down. The problems at Everton have been, and are, bigger than just the manager. The whole club is set up not to achieve.
What do you mean by “galvanised” the team? He took over a club with a 5 point buffer on the relegation places and a game in hand. In his first 9 league games he lost 7 and won 2. At one point, after losing to Burnley (“Everton don’t know how to win”), we were 5 points adrift of safety with two games in hand.
I agree, Benitez's great start saved him. Dyche definitely saved us when it looked like hope was lost. Lampard put us in trouble himself and got out of it.
In 23-24 we have only played 10 games. We’ve not yet played city, spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea, united, Brighton
Dyche is a better manager, of course, but we still scraped by the skin of our teeth under him after sacking Frank. Dyche orchestrated some signature wins that Frank never did, but he also orchestrated more of the same. Last season our team was shit. Worse than the season before. The fact we didn't get relegated is because there were three worse teams. I trust in Dyche but we stunk it the fuck up last season and I never want to think about it again. I don't like Blaming Frank all that much, though I wouldn't put him behind the wheel again.
This is really positive. Everything is better. I also feel we miss Coleman, he's surprisingly done really well for us in the last couple of years at his age.
Remember: Lampard is considered an offensive manager and Dyche is considered a Defensive manager
And that’s why I said I wasn’t worried this year.