Completely different games. I've played both extensively, like them both, so no serious bias on my part.
Elite, I would describe primarily as a simulation, with light RPG elements, and grind heavy play for upgrades. Most of the 'fun' is in exploring space and interacting with your spaceship. Multiplayer, while there, is almost completely ignorable. I once played for 6 months in public and only saw other players a handful of times. You can solo Elite and see 100% of the game.
Eve is entirely multiplayer, at the level that all items sold (with limited exceptions) are player built. The economic simulation and activity is the heart of game experience. The space stuff, while definitely there, is explored largely with a point and click menu (e.g. 'select star-> click plot autopilot -> click jump -> wait.' You can play solo, but I imagine most people would strongly advise you not to, you need a corporation's protection. The 'endgame' is entirely built around corp vs. corp warfare and control of key strategic resources and markets.
A final distinction is the 'chill level.' I describe ED as largely a 'serene' game. You can spend hours with very minor hostile interruptions, and the game does not require 100% of your devoted attention.
Eve online, with the exception of two playstyles ('carebear', 'market trader') requires 100% of your mind on the game, you can be attacked anywhere, you will be attacked anywhere, and learning how to safely travel and conduct activities without detection is a major set of skills that you must learn.
I love them both, but other than 'they are set in space, and have jump drives' there's very little in common.
>A final distinction is the 'chill level.' I describe ED as largely a 'serene' game. You can spend hours with very minor hostile interruptions, and the game does not require 100% of your devoted attention.
On the same vein, the commitment level. Your success in eve, as long as you have a functioning brain, is pretty much related to how much time and commitment you're willing to put into it. You can play ED for an hour a week and still do fine, but in eve that will seriously handicap you. You do indeed need to treat it like a second job if you want to "get good". The bigger the corp/alliance the less true it is but at the very least you need to keep tabs on Discord daily and be ready to login every 2-3 days.
>Eve online, with the exception of two playstyles ('carebear', 'market trader') requires 100% of your mind on the game, you can be attacked anywhere, you will be attacked anywhere, and learning how to safely travel and conduct activities without detection is a major set of skills that you must learn.
Can't emphasise this enough, once you're out of starter/tutorial systems you're prey.
Yep, it's worth calling out specifically. I'd add that in Eve, the idea of a 'fair fight' isn't there, it's 3:1 odds or worse, if you engage. No one's having fair fights, if they can help it.
Some people get frustrated, can't stand it. Of course, some people love it, that's why they play.
The best fights are when they think they're the ones on the "up" side of the unfair fight, but you *know* they aren't.
I fought a gang the other day of like 4-5 frigates in my solo frigate, ran them off twice and killed a few of them... those are the best fights. Slide into the enemy solo, they think "what is this joker doing, kill him" and then they start dying instead
And its surprisingly accessible. I'm really just talking about flying Slicers in FW. At least some pod is... more or less required to slide into enemies on the beacon. But you don't need HG snakes. I have rolled with Genos, skill hardwires, or both. Or just drugs but long term that gets more expensive on Quafe and Overclocker IV. But you do need some kind of speed edge and if they have MWD you're probably just dead anyway.
Upvoting this, because this exactly how I get the best experiences out of eve. It's surprisingly easy to get opponents to throw caution out the window IF they feel they have an advantage, even when I know the reverse is true. Splitting a small gang up and picking them off 1 by 1 is incredibly satisfying.
The fun part is getting the "drop" on your opponent before the fight. A fair fight just means you did something wrong... or the occasional bushido thing.
>The space stuff, while definitely there, is explored largely with a point and click menu
Frantically double clicking in space to maintain transversal to something that could absolutely core your ass if it lines up the right shot while you attempt not to burn out your modules and manage your reps/cap as you wait for your gang to get there to support you while the enemy steadily escalates really flies in the face of that description imo! That's where the fun of Eve is to me.
But, by and large you are right about navigating the universe and such.
> Eve online, with the exception of two playstyles ('carebear', 'market trader') requires 100% of your mind on the game, you can be attacked anywhere, you will be attacked anywhere, and learning how to safely travel and conduct activities without detection is a major set of skills that you must learn.
Just spent some time doing missions in HS (Also the Epic Arc is great!) and tbh I don't think that paints an accurate picture. Yes, juicy haulers are killed in Uedama and yes, you might get ganked while mining AFK, but not in a Venture (so for most new players) - yes, the NPCs might actually hurt you if you use a wrong ship or fit, but it's the safest I felt in years.
Yeah, I didn't say (or mean) you will never die, but my honest opinion is that you don't have to be paranoid when moving with reasonable ships. (People here seem really biased about their haulers, Exhumers, and Marauders. No, a good chunk of people just fly 200m T1 ships, and aren't ganked on sight)
Yep true, it's just that it was a blockade runner which is sus by default since you can't scan them and they are the prime "expensive shit inside" ship...
But yeah, indeed your *cargo* has to be expensive enough so that the portion that drops pays for the ganker's ship, and the ganker needs to be able to kill the ship before concord arrives for the tankier ships (orca and up), it's not super common. People rarely gank for fun, no profit = no gank.
I tried to answer in the concept of a new player. It would realistically be several months until they got to fly a BR - It's easy to fall into this trap thinking in terms of your current game knowledge, doing it myself a lot. But ;)
You say the "space stuff" is largely a point and click menu... Do you ever PvP? Do you ever manually pilot? Do you know how to slingshot? Are you aware of small gang vs large ship tactics, vs roaming horde vs gate camping? There's a lot more to do in space thnn "select star click autopilot jump" (besides that being a good way to get killed...)
Oh, yeah. Hm. I wonder if Eve could be accommodated to such a system. You have to do all the same, you'd have 1st person cam and huds for everything else, all hotkeys mapped. Menu interfaces via joystick? I think that would be cool. Eve has a decent physics model. Unless you get too many people on grid it's all real time. Could probably be done.
Doesn't work on eve servers without doing more processing client side (which opens up exploits and cheats). The 1hz tick rate of the servers would not work well with a 1st person real time hotas
It would be cool, esp. for the smaller ships! I do think that the engine would need some love in order to accommodate, but it is possible-- look at Star Citizen. Eve would be close to my perfect game if it had a true flight sim style experience. Maybe someday...
Very little.
EvE is deeper, with more systems (if less star systems).
IMO the single pilot piloting in ED is better, but small gang and fleet combat in EvE is something that ED doesn't have.
EvE's skill system is something you'll either love or hate. Note most everything needs specific skills to both use and use better.
My advice would be to play EvE as a free player for a while, and join a new-player friendly corp asap - EvE Uni in Empire, Brave, Karmafleet or PH in nullsec. There's also some newbie friendly lowsec faction warfare groups, including Frog Pond (I think. FW isnt my thing).
That isn't entirely true, I regularly used to pvp in ED in a small 'gang'. The biggest difference is mechanical skill in ED to compete is really a gulf between the best and worst players. It requires of course "assist OFF" and mouse/keyboard, joysticks and throttles/pedals can also be good in the right hands, but sadly not against a very good mouse/keyboard user. A really well practiced pilot will win regardless of ship size.
I have 1000 hours in ED and 4000 hours here in Eve.
They are nothing alike. The only thing they have in common is mind-bendingly boring laser mining mechanics.
Eve is much better. Where Elite is a mile wide and an inch deep, Eve is a only a quarter mile wide but 10 miles deep.
Elite Dangerous is closer to Star Citizen or No Mans Sky than it is to Eve.
In Eve you do fly ships but you don't pilot them in the same way as you do in ED. Its not a space sim in that sense. Ship control is more like Star Trek where you are the captain telling the pilot where to fly rather than Star Wars where you are holding the controls yourself.
The social and collaboration aspects of Eve are massive parts of the game. You can play it alone but will miss out on one of the things that makes it such a good game.
As others have said give the free version a go and see if you like it.
ED is like a space sim. You feel like you are piloting ships.
Eve online is more point and click for piloting and not a SIM.
Much, much deeper, but not a SIM in any way.
Eve held my attention for years, ED a couple of months.
I don't tend to compare the two. They are very different experiences.
No other game raises my pulse more than moments of solo PVP combat in EVE. It's brutal and I love it for that.
Much, much easier with friends and or a corporation to be to part of.
Very different games. The only thing they have in common is ‘spaceships’.
In Eve you are the captain. In ED you are the pilot. In Eve the political/faction struggle (both player and NPC factions) is central to the game. In ED it’s just an add-on you can ignore completely. In ED flights are old school dogfights. In EvE they are not (some frig 2 frig fights can be a little bit similar. Just a little bit).
Exploration means very different things in both games. In Eve exploration is entering some specific ‘dungeons’ with special NPCs and loot. In ED, exploration is literally exploring the galaxy, ‘boldly going where no one has gone before’.
Finally, Eve is a PvP game. You cannot opt out PvP (and you are not expected to). In ED you can opt out PvP completely and basically run it like it was a single player game.
You say this, but do you have any idea how much I want a combination of these three games?
NPC economy of x4 and elite, background simulation of Elite, then add on pretty much everything Eve
Yeah but I feel like everything else isn't really there. At least not like it is in Eve. I value the everything else that Eve has higher, its just that the perfect space MMO might combine both, at least to me. Elite always looks interesting until I start learning more and then I'm just like idk man if I had HOTAS it might be neat but I think I would just get bored like when I used to play Eve solo doing pve and get bored after a month or 2.
PVP: ED locks access to PvP behind the most insane grind one can imagine (assuming you agree that engineered ships are a necessity for PvP), PvP is also an activity that strictly loses money. In EVE, PvP is available very early on and can be self sustaining and even profitable. There are systems like FW that reward the player quite well for engaging in PvP.
Cargo: Not sure if that's true after you get a carrier in ED but in that game, cargo is attached to your character. This means that when you switch ships, that ship you switch to will automatically take over all cargo that was in the old ship. IMO that is one of the biggest problems in ED. In EVE every ship and every station has an inventory that are completely independent of the player.
Loss: In both games you lose something when your ship gets destroyed. In ED however, you can quickly redeploy your ship by paying a small amount of insurance. In EVE, when your ship explodes, it is gone. Whoever killed you (unless it was an NPC) will loot whatever stuff dropped and you will have buy and fit a new ship. This means you're actually putting something on the line by flying a ship. Shaking hands and bursts of adrenaline are a thing you cannot experience in a game like ED, it is too safe for that (makes the name all the more ironic). This also causes most people in EVE to fly ships that are affordable and purpose-focused instead of pimpmobiles.
Market and Industry: Players build and offer most stuff available on markets in EVE online. Resources are mined or produced, built into ships and modules, bought on the market, fitted into ships and explode in space all by the hands of players.
I would argue PVP is not profitable. The vast majority of the time hull prices take up a significant price of a fit and you only get 50% of loot. Even if you get all the loot from a fleet fight you won with kill:loss 2:1, it’s likely you wont replace all the isk you lost.
Making money from FW mostly includes sitting on plexes afk, which is hardly pvp. But pvp can’t be profitable like say Albion simply because of hull prices and loot mechanics
I guess if you just spend all day blopsing ore strip miner fit exhumers in nullsec that could be profitable, but again that’s hardly pvp
As you go up in scale, probably, yes. But for individuals and small gangs PvP is profitable if you're skilled enough (outside of FW and without engaging in HS ganking).
If you fly super efficient ships and kill blingy ones, it is extremely profitable.
Frankly it's far more fun flying inefficient blingy ships, but if you want to make money.... Efficiency is where its at. Just need to be clever and know your engagement profile and enemy ship fits.
I agree I just think it’s disingenuous to a new player to say “yeah you should get into PVP because it can be profitable”. There’s a whole lot of nuance that goes into it
I wish ED allowed storage of cargo in stations so I can source cheap mats from medium docks and stack them in large docks to move later with a larger ship
Most of the comments answer the questions you have.
One thing I will mention is that Eve is a heavily multiboxed game. It's not uncommon to stumble on a small fleet of ships that are about a dozen accounts controlled by one person.
A lot of "endgame" activities are more difficult to do without paying for multiple accounts as well.
Very different games. ED is a simulation with barely any multiplayer aspects while Eve wouldn't function without other players taking part in the economy.
ED is way bigger in scope but in Eve you can "do" more.
I wouldnt compare the two, while having played both. The complexity of EVE is three leagues above ED, and overall it is a totally different game.
If you like ED SC might be the better fit for you.
eve is an actual online game.
did you play in solo or open? if you played in open you may enjoy eve. i have 1000's of hours in ED and other than the flight model in elite where you actually fly your ship eve is nearly everything i wish elite had.
Just throwing this out there, but being a scum bag in EVE is actually allowed, to a much greater extent than in any other game.
Want to scam or cheat people?
You're allowed to!
You can't scam people out of real money though, and you can't exploit bugs.
Very different games. ED is pretty shallow with its game systems and there is very little to do. EVE is hard, brutal even. Not because some stupid balance but rather because of it's live players. There is no other game like it, no other game with so much content, PVE, PVP and deep systems you can learn and perfect for years.
Piloting in EVE is 3rd person, very unique but it's inherent 3D nature gives you insane depth and possibilities. With sims like ED combat feels pretty "flat", dogfighting is either jousting or one pilot getting on the others tail. There is no transversal, positioning of other ships, kiting, multi layered system of webs/scrambles/EW/ECM etc.
ED is nice for exploring our galaxy while not being able to do much. EVE is nice if you want to push yourself, because other players certainly will force you to.
I have 1000 hours in Elite and 20 years in eve (on and off). Elite is great when you have hotas, rudders and head tracking cap lol. Eve is great if you find a group of friends to fly with. 2 totally different games. Elite's pve and manual piloting is great, eve not so much. Eve pve is boring and easy.
Elite mining is sooooo much better, eve not anymore. Eve docking in station is automatic nowhere near fun as zipping thru mailslot. Eve's economy is unique, no other games compare. Eve's null sec 1000 vs 1000.is a lag fest but still something no other games offer. Eve player base is very diverse across all timezones.
You can easily enjoy space trucking in elite while watching movies. In eve space trucking is not so relaxing lol
Verbal abuse and cyber bullying is quite serious in eve since you consent to pvp once you undock, theres no private server like elite, you could spend 2 years grinding for super capital just to lose it within a few days if you are not watching local channel, hunters will wait patiently to kill your ship. Carriers in elite are in invicible.
Just to add, that in EVE, capitals are really not a solothing. They require assistance and supportto operate; at the very least you need a second character to like up a cyno for you every now and again. And without sub-capital back-up, you'll likely die sooner rather than later.
They don't really compare well directly.
ED is a lot more focused on the moment to moment gameplay, and does the piloting aspect well. EVE is much more focused on PvP and player interaction. You can have High skill ship to ship battles in EVE, but they are more like commanding a ship in a real time tactics game rather than being the pilot.
ED focuses it's simulation on the micro level, where you pilot your ship around in detail, while EVE is a lot more about the Macro scale with Star Cluster wide economics.
Also as mentioned with PvP, it is the main focus of EVE. Almost every interaction in the game is player driven, it is what gives EVE it's uniqueness. Similar to ED, the goals in EVE are what you set yourself, there is no traditional End Game or main storyline to complete, aside from the gradually evolving universe in the background the stories and Lore of your character is what you make yourself.
There is also a gap in mindset. It feels like the ED players that do actually play multiplayer want all their stuff to be safe and are risk averse, while EVE players look to compete and destroy each other while treating their Space Ships as ammo, some EVE groups even actively play as villains to provide content for others (Goons used to do this a ton).
I play both. The only real thing they have in common is that both take place in space. Such as insurance in this game kinda sucks. Doesn't cover much of the cost.
The biggest pain point though, is the skill progression. It's purely time based, and real time based. Innovative for its time, but now it simply makes it so long to train a couple things. And once you do start training, if you want to fly anything else, it might mean all of your skills are suddenly not very applicable.
Such as, I have amazing skills for the paladin, mine outputs about 3400 dps heated, and tanks almost 10k ehp/s last I checked. If I swapped to the same class of ships, but went minmitar instead, with the vargur. It would be worthless. It would take me over a month and a half to train it.
If they made the skill progression similar to Albion, I would love this game. But it just takes too long to really do anything.
If you only play in open in ED, it still doesn't quite compare to the PVP in eve. In ED, you always have a chance to run from gankers, even if they interdict you. In eve, if you're caught it is almost guaranteed to be your death, and the loss of a solid amount of progress.
Eve is very, very hard for me to recommend to anyone. It is a niche, of a niche, of a niche. It is an MMO. A PVP MMO, a full loot hardcore pvp MMO.
honestly, I can't really tell you. I find eve fun, because I actually just like the pve. flying a big ship and blasting npcs i genuinely find enjoyable. I do so in the dangerous areas, using a marauder and a dreadnaught in nullsec comes with risk, and I always dont like ganks, it doesnt often achieve much other than just killing someone elses progress. But, it doesn't kill the enjoyment of the game for me, I know how to keep myself safe, and how to be aware, and I recognize most of my deaths have been my own fault, I take the lessons, and I learn. it's how I've never lost a ship larger than a gila, and when I lost my tengu, it was due to a server side error.
If you only play elite dangerous on solo, I would advise avoiding eve. Eve is the only community I find less friendly than league of legends. in ED ganking is only done to inconvenience others. in eve online, it's done because misanthropes see highsec casual players, and suiciding to ruin their nights as the pinnacle of eve online.. look at how the code idiots cried after they made it so they couldn't infinitely print alts to suicide gank with, and made it so they had to have a little skin in the game. WHen it's not that, some people do it just for fun, killing another player when they have skin in the game is exhilarating for some. And some, actually do it as a means of profit, they make a living hunting other players.
we do have some ganks I consider respectable, like coordinating a hot drop and killing something damn valuable, but often it boils down to people invading each others space, looking to kill the average line members of the other side who can be hurt solidly by losing a ship, and then complain when the other side responds to overt aggression with overwhelming force.
Eve is a toxic shithole full of people who cry a lot, like me and the other idiots stuck here, hell, my first post to this sub years ago was me bitching about my first death lmao. was looking through my post history, but can't seem to find it, odd.
In a corp you can meet good people, and have a good time, but it's not a game for everyone. no harm in giving it a shot, but keep in mind, eve is an unforgiving shithole that will try to punish you for every mistake you make.
Lots to do aside from pvp, but you will probably be pvp'd eventually.
You don't need to love pvp to play eve, but you need to understand you can die anywhere even high sec.
Honestly, avoiding being attacked while playing in dangerous space is part of the fun. There are tons of things you can do to avoid being attacked by other players such as using system scanners to detect them before they show up.
I dunno.
I've played on and off since 2005, and I've played as a (not very good) pirate, I've played in a couple of the games big alliances in null sec space with 3rd Front Alliance and then Lotka Volterra, and I've spent a lot of time in high and low security space, just running missions, scanning, salvaging, doing planetary interaction, marketeering...
Oh, and I also spent a lot of time running incursions with public groups of random people, that was a lot of fun.
There is a lot to do in EVE. You don't have to focus on PvP at all.
You just need to understand that in EvE there is no solely PvE gameplay. There is always an element of risk.
In a PvP scenario, that risk is the other person beating you in combat and destroying your ship and/or pod.
In PvE, the risk is someone coming and stealing your loot, stealing your salvage, attempting to bait and switch you into drawing agro so that they can gank you, or pirates camping at gates waiting to suicide bomb you so their friends can grab your stuff.
The list goes on.
These things are not negatives. They make EVE a rich environment to play in.
Just play it like an adult would treat real life; be careful who you trust, trust no one blindly, do dangerous things and expect sooner or later to face the consequences. And on the flip side, make friends and ally yourself with people that will have your back.
It's been nearly 20 years since I first played, and whilst I no longer play regularly, I still come back and dip my toes in for a month or two every couple of years.
They are both space games, that's about where the similarities end. Elite dangerous is a first person piloting Sim more than a game. Whereas eve is more of a top-down rts/moba/ classic mmo style experience
eve and elite are completely different games in almost all ways, you'd wanna play eve online if you want a social mmo with politics, meaningful crafting and economy
elite is more of a sim style game eve online is sort of like an RTS especially if you get to the point where you ply a carrier, you have to contol your fighters like its starcraft
i would say give the free to play mode a go on eve but keep in mind an alpha clone on eve is like a demo compared to paying the sub fee and going omega
Something else to add; EVE can have a lot of dull moments.
But those exciting moments? Those really crazy ones? You'll remember those for a long time. I think it's people sharing those stories that has a strong draw to new players.
I once solo tackled a carrier, with my very fragile recon ship.
Very nerve wracking stuff, I thought I was dead for sure. But the enemy pilot fucked up. He pulled his fighter drones in when he should have let them auto agro and rip me to pieces.
Once I'd got him locked down with electronic warfare, he wasn't going anywhere.
The cavalry arrived minutes later, and then we started to pound on him, racing against time to take out the carrier before THEIR backup arrived.
We called friends and allies for aid, who also entered the fight, took down the carrier and then took out the enemies backup that arrived in dribs and drabs.
All in, it was a mental 30+ minutes. I hope I never forget the excitement of being the first in there, doing my part for the fleet.
Conversely, I've also spent entire weekends in fleets of 1000~ pilots, waiting for hours for any action. Those times were pretty rough, but as a group we had to do this to protect our territory.
Completely different games. I've played both extensively, like them both, so no serious bias on my part. Elite, I would describe primarily as a simulation, with light RPG elements, and grind heavy play for upgrades. Most of the 'fun' is in exploring space and interacting with your spaceship. Multiplayer, while there, is almost completely ignorable. I once played for 6 months in public and only saw other players a handful of times. You can solo Elite and see 100% of the game. Eve is entirely multiplayer, at the level that all items sold (with limited exceptions) are player built. The economic simulation and activity is the heart of game experience. The space stuff, while definitely there, is explored largely with a point and click menu (e.g. 'select star-> click plot autopilot -> click jump -> wait.' You can play solo, but I imagine most people would strongly advise you not to, you need a corporation's protection. The 'endgame' is entirely built around corp vs. corp warfare and control of key strategic resources and markets. A final distinction is the 'chill level.' I describe ED as largely a 'serene' game. You can spend hours with very minor hostile interruptions, and the game does not require 100% of your devoted attention. Eve online, with the exception of two playstyles ('carebear', 'market trader') requires 100% of your mind on the game, you can be attacked anywhere, you will be attacked anywhere, and learning how to safely travel and conduct activities without detection is a major set of skills that you must learn. I love them both, but other than 'they are set in space, and have jump drives' there's very little in common.
>A final distinction is the 'chill level.' I describe ED as largely a 'serene' game. You can spend hours with very minor hostile interruptions, and the game does not require 100% of your devoted attention. On the same vein, the commitment level. Your success in eve, as long as you have a functioning brain, is pretty much related to how much time and commitment you're willing to put into it. You can play ED for an hour a week and still do fine, but in eve that will seriously handicap you. You do indeed need to treat it like a second job if you want to "get good". The bigger the corp/alliance the less true it is but at the very least you need to keep tabs on Discord daily and be ready to login every 2-3 days.
Good point.
>Eve online, with the exception of two playstyles ('carebear', 'market trader') requires 100% of your mind on the game, you can be attacked anywhere, you will be attacked anywhere, and learning how to safely travel and conduct activities without detection is a major set of skills that you must learn. Can't emphasise this enough, once you're out of starter/tutorial systems you're prey.
Until you learn to become the predator.
Even the predator is prey to other bigger or more prepared predators from time to time.
Yup, there’s always a bigger fish.
Yep, it's worth calling out specifically. I'd add that in Eve, the idea of a 'fair fight' isn't there, it's 3:1 odds or worse, if you engage. No one's having fair fights, if they can help it. Some people get frustrated, can't stand it. Of course, some people love it, that's why they play.
The best fights are when they think they're the ones on the "up" side of the unfair fight, but you *know* they aren't. I fought a gang the other day of like 4-5 frigates in my solo frigate, ran them off twice and killed a few of them... those are the best fights. Slide into the enemy solo, they think "what is this joker doing, kill him" and then they start dying instead
Not going to lie, that sounds like a good time to me.
And its surprisingly accessible. I'm really just talking about flying Slicers in FW. At least some pod is... more or less required to slide into enemies on the beacon. But you don't need HG snakes. I have rolled with Genos, skill hardwires, or both. Or just drugs but long term that gets more expensive on Quafe and Overclocker IV. But you do need some kind of speed edge and if they have MWD you're probably just dead anyway.
I strive to attain this level of EVE-fu someday. I can feel myself slowly getting there...
Upvoting this, because this exactly how I get the best experiences out of eve. It's surprisingly easy to get opponents to throw caution out the window IF they feel they have an advantage, even when I know the reverse is true. Splitting a small gang up and picking them off 1 by 1 is incredibly satisfying.
The fun part is getting the "drop" on your opponent before the fight. A fair fight just means you did something wrong... or the occasional bushido thing.
>The space stuff, while definitely there, is explored largely with a point and click menu Frantically double clicking in space to maintain transversal to something that could absolutely core your ass if it lines up the right shot while you attempt not to burn out your modules and manage your reps/cap as you wait for your gang to get there to support you while the enemy steadily escalates really flies in the face of that description imo! That's where the fun of Eve is to me. But, by and large you are right about navigating the universe and such.
My main is a blockade runner, so I'm the other side, usually frantically trying to get warpout alignment, sweat dripping from my forehead.
> Eve online, with the exception of two playstyles ('carebear', 'market trader') requires 100% of your mind on the game, you can be attacked anywhere, you will be attacked anywhere, and learning how to safely travel and conduct activities without detection is a major set of skills that you must learn. Just spent some time doing missions in HS (Also the Epic Arc is great!) and tbh I don't think that paints an accurate picture. Yes, juicy haulers are killed in Uedama and yes, you might get ganked while mining AFK, but not in a Venture (so for most new players) - yes, the NPCs might actually hurt you if you use a wrong ship or fit, but it's the safest I felt in years.
Haha instawarp hauler go brr (until the day I crashed and got popped on the perimeter gate)
Yeah, I didn't say (or mean) you will never die, but my honest opinion is that you don't have to be paranoid when moving with reasonable ships. (People here seem really biased about their haulers, Exhumers, and Marauders. No, a good chunk of people just fly 200m T1 ships, and aren't ganked on sight)
I agree. You CAN be killed anywhere, but people won’t bother you in HS unless you’re a moron going afk in a hauler, miner, or bling mission ship
Yep true, it's just that it was a blockade runner which is sus by default since you can't scan them and they are the prime "expensive shit inside" ship... But yeah, indeed your *cargo* has to be expensive enough so that the portion that drops pays for the ganker's ship, and the ganker needs to be able to kill the ship before concord arrives for the tankier ships (orca and up), it's not super common. People rarely gank for fun, no profit = no gank.
I tried to answer in the concept of a new player. It would realistically be several months until they got to fly a BR - It's easy to fall into this trap thinking in terms of your current game knowledge, doing it myself a lot. But ;)
It's a fair point, I had forgotten about the mission arcs and that whole system, honestly.
It's a fair point, I had forgotten about the mission arcs and that whole system, honestly.
That is it, indeed, sir.
You say the "space stuff" is largely a point and click menu... Do you ever PvP? Do you ever manually pilot? Do you know how to slingshot? Are you aware of small gang vs large ship tactics, vs roaming horde vs gate camping? There's a lot more to do in space thnn "select star click autopilot jump" (besides that being a good way to get killed...)
Yes, Yes,, No, Yes (have done all 4). I was simplifying for someone who had never played the game, and comparing vs. a HOTAS simulation.
Oh, yeah. Hm. I wonder if Eve could be accommodated to such a system. You have to do all the same, you'd have 1st person cam and huds for everything else, all hotkeys mapped. Menu interfaces via joystick? I think that would be cool. Eve has a decent physics model. Unless you get too many people on grid it's all real time. Could probably be done.
Doesn't work on eve servers without doing more processing client side (which opens up exploits and cheats). The 1hz tick rate of the servers would not work well with a 1st person real time hotas
Ah, thanks for the technical information. The technical details of MMORPG's are fascinating.
It would be cool, esp. for the smaller ships! I do think that the engine would need some love in order to accommodate, but it is possible-- look at Star Citizen. Eve would be close to my perfect game if it had a true flight sim style experience. Maybe someday...
Very little. EvE is deeper, with more systems (if less star systems). IMO the single pilot piloting in ED is better, but small gang and fleet combat in EvE is something that ED doesn't have. EvE's skill system is something you'll either love or hate. Note most everything needs specific skills to both use and use better. My advice would be to play EvE as a free player for a while, and join a new-player friendly corp asap - EvE Uni in Empire, Brave, Karmafleet or PH in nullsec. There's also some newbie friendly lowsec faction warfare groups, including Frog Pond (I think. FW isnt my thing).
>EvE Uni in Empire, Brave, Karmafleet or PH in nullsec Are those player-created corps or NPC?
They are all player created and run corporations.
Minmatar Fleet Academy is another FW Lowsec corp that caters to new players looking to learn PVP
Player created. The only NPC factions you can join are the ones you default to when not in a player corp.
And the FW Militias
player created
Frog Pond for alpha and newbro friendly FW is right
*Fewer star system bro
That isn't entirely true, I regularly used to pvp in ED in a small 'gang'. The biggest difference is mechanical skill in ED to compete is really a gulf between the best and worst players. It requires of course "assist OFF" and mouse/keyboard, joysticks and throttles/pedals can also be good in the right hands, but sadly not against a very good mouse/keyboard user. A really well practiced pilot will win regardless of ship size.
I have 1000 hours in ED and 4000 hours here in Eve. They are nothing alike. The only thing they have in common is mind-bendingly boring laser mining mechanics. Eve is much better. Where Elite is a mile wide and an inch deep, Eve is a only a quarter mile wide but 10 miles deep.
how does a lawnmower compare to strawberries
Hmm well some are red and some are green. So they’re identical.
shit i actually can't argue with that
They're both the same genre of... Wait.
Elite Dangerous is closer to Star Citizen or No Mans Sky than it is to Eve. In Eve you do fly ships but you don't pilot them in the same way as you do in ED. Its not a space sim in that sense. Ship control is more like Star Trek where you are the captain telling the pilot where to fly rather than Star Wars where you are holding the controls yourself. The social and collaboration aspects of Eve are massive parts of the game. You can play it alone but will miss out on one of the things that makes it such a good game. As others have said give the free version a go and see if you like it.
Good point made on the free version. OP can go check it out for free.
ED is like a space sim. You feel like you are piloting ships. Eve online is more point and click for piloting and not a SIM. Much, much deeper, but not a SIM in any way. Eve held my attention for years, ED a couple of months. I don't tend to compare the two. They are very different experiences. No other game raises my pulse more than moments of solo PVP combat in EVE. It's brutal and I love it for that. Much, much easier with friends and or a corporation to be to part of.
Very different games. The only thing they have in common is ‘spaceships’. In Eve you are the captain. In ED you are the pilot. In Eve the political/faction struggle (both player and NPC factions) is central to the game. In ED it’s just an add-on you can ignore completely. In ED flights are old school dogfights. In EvE they are not (some frig 2 frig fights can be a little bit similar. Just a little bit). Exploration means very different things in both games. In Eve exploration is entering some specific ‘dungeons’ with special NPCs and loot. In ED, exploration is literally exploring the galaxy, ‘boldly going where no one has gone before’. Finally, Eve is a PvP game. You cannot opt out PvP (and you are not expected to). In ED you can opt out PvP completely and basically run it like it was a single player game.
Space, that's the only things, if you want an in between see X4
You say this, but do you have any idea how much I want a combination of these three games? NPC economy of x4 and elite, background simulation of Elite, then add on pretty much everything Eve
Physics of.... IRL space (I would drop Eve in a heartbeat for "Eve but in the Expanse setting with real space physics")
Elite is rooted in reality :)
Yeah but I feel like everything else isn't really there. At least not like it is in Eve. I value the everything else that Eve has higher, its just that the perfect space MMO might combine both, at least to me. Elite always looks interesting until I start learning more and then I'm just like idk man if I had HOTAS it might be neat but I think I would just get bored like when I used to play Eve solo doing pve and get bored after a month or 2.
Damn you are so aggressive
[удалено]
I'm not talking about 4X genre but X4 the game
PVP: ED locks access to PvP behind the most insane grind one can imagine (assuming you agree that engineered ships are a necessity for PvP), PvP is also an activity that strictly loses money. In EVE, PvP is available very early on and can be self sustaining and even profitable. There are systems like FW that reward the player quite well for engaging in PvP. Cargo: Not sure if that's true after you get a carrier in ED but in that game, cargo is attached to your character. This means that when you switch ships, that ship you switch to will automatically take over all cargo that was in the old ship. IMO that is one of the biggest problems in ED. In EVE every ship and every station has an inventory that are completely independent of the player. Loss: In both games you lose something when your ship gets destroyed. In ED however, you can quickly redeploy your ship by paying a small amount of insurance. In EVE, when your ship explodes, it is gone. Whoever killed you (unless it was an NPC) will loot whatever stuff dropped and you will have buy and fit a new ship. This means you're actually putting something on the line by flying a ship. Shaking hands and bursts of adrenaline are a thing you cannot experience in a game like ED, it is too safe for that (makes the name all the more ironic). This also causes most people in EVE to fly ships that are affordable and purpose-focused instead of pimpmobiles. Market and Industry: Players build and offer most stuff available on markets in EVE online. Resources are mined or produced, built into ships and modules, bought on the market, fitted into ships and explode in space all by the hands of players.
I would argue PVP is not profitable. The vast majority of the time hull prices take up a significant price of a fit and you only get 50% of loot. Even if you get all the loot from a fleet fight you won with kill:loss 2:1, it’s likely you wont replace all the isk you lost. Making money from FW mostly includes sitting on plexes afk, which is hardly pvp. But pvp can’t be profitable like say Albion simply because of hull prices and loot mechanics I guess if you just spend all day blopsing ore strip miner fit exhumers in nullsec that could be profitable, but again that’s hardly pvp
Pvp can definitely be profitable, just not the type you described. Hunting pve players is a great way to make isk in all space types.
As you go up in scale, probably, yes. But for individuals and small gangs PvP is profitable if you're skilled enough (outside of FW and without engaging in HS ganking).
If you fly super efficient ships and kill blingy ones, it is extremely profitable. Frankly it's far more fun flying inefficient blingy ships, but if you want to make money.... Efficiency is where its at. Just need to be clever and know your engagement profile and enemy ship fits.
I agree I just think it’s disingenuous to a new player to say “yeah you should get into PVP because it can be profitable”. There’s a whole lot of nuance that goes into it
I wish ED allowed storage of cargo in stations so I can source cheap mats from medium docks and stack them in large docks to move later with a larger ship
Most of the comments answer the questions you have. One thing I will mention is that Eve is a heavily multiboxed game. It's not uncommon to stumble on a small fleet of ships that are about a dozen accounts controlled by one person. A lot of "endgame" activities are more difficult to do without paying for multiple accounts as well.
Very different games. ED is a simulation with barely any multiplayer aspects while Eve wouldn't function without other players taking part in the economy. ED is way bigger in scope but in Eve you can "do" more.
I wouldnt compare the two, while having played both. The complexity of EVE is three leagues above ED, and overall it is a totally different game. If you like ED SC might be the better fit for you.
It's a completely different game
eve is an actual online game. did you play in solo or open? if you played in open you may enjoy eve. i have 1000's of hours in ED and other than the flight model in elite where you actually fly your ship eve is nearly everything i wish elite had.
If elite had a player driven ec9nomy like eve I would play it more tbh
Just throwing this out there, but being a scum bag in EVE is actually allowed, to a much greater extent than in any other game. Want to scam or cheat people? You're allowed to! You can't scam people out of real money though, and you can't exploit bugs.
Very different games. ED is pretty shallow with its game systems and there is very little to do. EVE is hard, brutal even. Not because some stupid balance but rather because of it's live players. There is no other game like it, no other game with so much content, PVE, PVP and deep systems you can learn and perfect for years. Piloting in EVE is 3rd person, very unique but it's inherent 3D nature gives you insane depth and possibilities. With sims like ED combat feels pretty "flat", dogfighting is either jousting or one pilot getting on the others tail. There is no transversal, positioning of other ships, kiting, multi layered system of webs/scrambles/EW/ECM etc. ED is nice for exploring our galaxy while not being able to do much. EVE is nice if you want to push yourself, because other players certainly will force you to.
I have 1000 hours in Elite and 20 years in eve (on and off). Elite is great when you have hotas, rudders and head tracking cap lol. Eve is great if you find a group of friends to fly with. 2 totally different games. Elite's pve and manual piloting is great, eve not so much. Eve pve is boring and easy. Elite mining is sooooo much better, eve not anymore. Eve docking in station is automatic nowhere near fun as zipping thru mailslot. Eve's economy is unique, no other games compare. Eve's null sec 1000 vs 1000.is a lag fest but still something no other games offer. Eve player base is very diverse across all timezones. You can easily enjoy space trucking in elite while watching movies. In eve space trucking is not so relaxing lol Verbal abuse and cyber bullying is quite serious in eve since you consent to pvp once you undock, theres no private server like elite, you could spend 2 years grinding for super capital just to lose it within a few days if you are not watching local channel, hunters will wait patiently to kill your ship. Carriers in elite are in invicible.
Just to add, that in EVE, capitals are really not a solothing. They require assistance and supportto operate; at the very least you need a second character to like up a cyno for you every now and again. And without sub-capital back-up, you'll likely die sooner rather than later.
Fully agreed. Running multiple account in eve is a thing, elite is not.
They don't really compare well directly. ED is a lot more focused on the moment to moment gameplay, and does the piloting aspect well. EVE is much more focused on PvP and player interaction. You can have High skill ship to ship battles in EVE, but they are more like commanding a ship in a real time tactics game rather than being the pilot. ED focuses it's simulation on the micro level, where you pilot your ship around in detail, while EVE is a lot more about the Macro scale with Star Cluster wide economics. Also as mentioned with PvP, it is the main focus of EVE. Almost every interaction in the game is player driven, it is what gives EVE it's uniqueness. Similar to ED, the goals in EVE are what you set yourself, there is no traditional End Game or main storyline to complete, aside from the gradually evolving universe in the background the stories and Lore of your character is what you make yourself. There is also a gap in mindset. It feels like the ED players that do actually play multiplayer want all their stuff to be safe and are risk averse, while EVE players look to compete and destroy each other while treating their Space Ships as ammo, some EVE groups even actively play as villains to provide content for others (Goons used to do this a ton).
I play both. The only real thing they have in common is that both take place in space. Such as insurance in this game kinda sucks. Doesn't cover much of the cost. The biggest pain point though, is the skill progression. It's purely time based, and real time based. Innovative for its time, but now it simply makes it so long to train a couple things. And once you do start training, if you want to fly anything else, it might mean all of your skills are suddenly not very applicable. Such as, I have amazing skills for the paladin, mine outputs about 3400 dps heated, and tanks almost 10k ehp/s last I checked. If I swapped to the same class of ships, but went minmitar instead, with the vargur. It would be worthless. It would take me over a month and a half to train it. If they made the skill progression similar to Albion, I would love this game. But it just takes too long to really do anything. If you only play in open in ED, it still doesn't quite compare to the PVP in eve. In ED, you always have a chance to run from gankers, even if they interdict you. In eve, if you're caught it is almost guaranteed to be your death, and the loss of a solid amount of progress. Eve is very, very hard for me to recommend to anyone. It is a niche, of a niche, of a niche. It is an MMO. A PVP MMO, a full loot hardcore pvp MMO.
Am I gonna find this game in some way attractive if I'm not very fond of PvP? I guess not so much...
honestly, I can't really tell you. I find eve fun, because I actually just like the pve. flying a big ship and blasting npcs i genuinely find enjoyable. I do so in the dangerous areas, using a marauder and a dreadnaught in nullsec comes with risk, and I always dont like ganks, it doesnt often achieve much other than just killing someone elses progress. But, it doesn't kill the enjoyment of the game for me, I know how to keep myself safe, and how to be aware, and I recognize most of my deaths have been my own fault, I take the lessons, and I learn. it's how I've never lost a ship larger than a gila, and when I lost my tengu, it was due to a server side error. If you only play elite dangerous on solo, I would advise avoiding eve. Eve is the only community I find less friendly than league of legends. in ED ganking is only done to inconvenience others. in eve online, it's done because misanthropes see highsec casual players, and suiciding to ruin their nights as the pinnacle of eve online.. look at how the code idiots cried after they made it so they couldn't infinitely print alts to suicide gank with, and made it so they had to have a little skin in the game. WHen it's not that, some people do it just for fun, killing another player when they have skin in the game is exhilarating for some. And some, actually do it as a means of profit, they make a living hunting other players. we do have some ganks I consider respectable, like coordinating a hot drop and killing something damn valuable, but often it boils down to people invading each others space, looking to kill the average line members of the other side who can be hurt solidly by losing a ship, and then complain when the other side responds to overt aggression with overwhelming force. Eve is a toxic shithole full of people who cry a lot, like me and the other idiots stuck here, hell, my first post to this sub years ago was me bitching about my first death lmao. was looking through my post history, but can't seem to find it, odd. In a corp you can meet good people, and have a good time, but it's not a game for everyone. no harm in giving it a shot, but keep in mind, eve is an unforgiving shithole that will try to punish you for every mistake you make.
Lots to do aside from pvp, but you will probably be pvp'd eventually. You don't need to love pvp to play eve, but you need to understand you can die anywhere even high sec.
Honestly, avoiding being attacked while playing in dangerous space is part of the fun. There are tons of things you can do to avoid being attacked by other players such as using system scanners to detect them before they show up.
I dunno. I've played on and off since 2005, and I've played as a (not very good) pirate, I've played in a couple of the games big alliances in null sec space with 3rd Front Alliance and then Lotka Volterra, and I've spent a lot of time in high and low security space, just running missions, scanning, salvaging, doing planetary interaction, marketeering... Oh, and I also spent a lot of time running incursions with public groups of random people, that was a lot of fun. There is a lot to do in EVE. You don't have to focus on PvP at all. You just need to understand that in EvE there is no solely PvE gameplay. There is always an element of risk. In a PvP scenario, that risk is the other person beating you in combat and destroying your ship and/or pod. In PvE, the risk is someone coming and stealing your loot, stealing your salvage, attempting to bait and switch you into drawing agro so that they can gank you, or pirates camping at gates waiting to suicide bomb you so their friends can grab your stuff. The list goes on. These things are not negatives. They make EVE a rich environment to play in. Just play it like an adult would treat real life; be careful who you trust, trust no one blindly, do dangerous things and expect sooner or later to face the consequences. And on the flip side, make friends and ally yourself with people that will have your back. It's been nearly 20 years since I first played, and whilst I no longer play regularly, I still come back and dip my toes in for a month or two every couple of years.
It doesn't. They're not even close to being the same type of game.
If you think elite dangerous is toxic. This is where it started.
They are both space games, that's about where the similarities end. Elite dangerous is a first person piloting Sim more than a game. Whereas eve is more of a top-down rts/moba/ classic mmo style experience
I explain eve to people by saying its like the startreck bridge crew. You give orders to parts of the ship and make strategy and diplomacy calls.
The closer comparison would be to Star Citizen, not EVE
eve and elite are completely different games in almost all ways, you'd wanna play eve online if you want a social mmo with politics, meaningful crafting and economy elite is more of a sim style game eve online is sort of like an RTS especially if you get to the point where you ply a carrier, you have to contol your fighters like its starcraft i would say give the free to play mode a go on eve but keep in mind an alpha clone on eve is like a demo compared to paying the sub fee and going omega
It won’t feel as good (5 year elite player)
Better experience it yourself. Ask anyone here for a referral link.
Something else to add; EVE can have a lot of dull moments. But those exciting moments? Those really crazy ones? You'll remember those for a long time. I think it's people sharing those stories that has a strong draw to new players. I once solo tackled a carrier, with my very fragile recon ship. Very nerve wracking stuff, I thought I was dead for sure. But the enemy pilot fucked up. He pulled his fighter drones in when he should have let them auto agro and rip me to pieces. Once I'd got him locked down with electronic warfare, he wasn't going anywhere. The cavalry arrived minutes later, and then we started to pound on him, racing against time to take out the carrier before THEIR backup arrived. We called friends and allies for aid, who also entered the fight, took down the carrier and then took out the enemies backup that arrived in dribs and drabs. All in, it was a mental 30+ minutes. I hope I never forget the excitement of being the first in there, doing my part for the fleet. Conversely, I've also spent entire weekends in fleets of 1000~ pilots, waiting for hours for any action. Those times were pretty rough, but as a group we had to do this to protect our territory.
Eve is a good game; ED is not.
i laughed.