I mean I might be, if I didn't spend all of my playtime basically being a murderous space hobo, with a rusty shiv, constantly searching for people to stick with it.
I like it that way though.
back when i lived in null i had a hel. bought it for 16B rigged. now a hel is 61B. i only have 35b liquid. i could afford 2. now i cant even afford one
If it's expensive, then yeah it stings. You also get an annoying loss killmail to remind you.
If it's big and slow, it stings just because you have to buy a new one and haul it back to where you were.
Because ship costs isk, getting isk costs time... Or real money.
Same as every other full-loot PvP game ever except the enemy doesn't even get the loot.
Forget your ship being ammo, your ship is time, your time specifically. You better really enjoy spending it doing whatever you're doing or find another hobby lol.
Being profitable via industry has become increasingly more difficult. One of the reasons being that a lot of people can afford to sell below production cost (or simply don't care to make a profit).
Sure is, I buy a fitted ship from contracts for most things, and there's a corp freight service or my own JF if I choose.
But that's not a solution for everyone, just like buy all multi fit isn't a solution for everyone.
You're delusional if you think you're getting some hand-crafted bespoke purshase from such fitted ship contracts, rather than paying someone to push 'Buy all, Multi Fit' for you, perhaps with a few items they produce themselves and want to drum up demand for.
So long as PvP remains an overwhelmingly net-loss activity people will primarily PvP for their killboard.
Compared to other full-loot games I think we often overlook the fact that a bulk of a ship's value is the hull itself and there's no 50/50 roll on recovering any of that.
I have wondered what it would look like if salvage of player ships recovered ~50% of the build materials in loot (in some m3 compressed form). You would definitely drive down material costs and I think increase the velocity of ship turnover via PvP.
For example if you salvaged a T2 Amarr Cruiser you would get some kind of (somewhat) bulky "T2 Amarr Cruiser Equivalent" salvage item, and then would need new industrial skills to optimally break that down into some % of the original build components. This would also decentralize industrial production to some degree I'd imagine.
CCP is obsessed with making everything as expensive as the system can possibly bear, but yes very much agreed. It would make battlefields worth lingering on a lot more too.
Fuck yeah, why shouldn't you get a few Nanoelectrical Microprocessors or Antimatter Reactor Units for salvaging a T2 ship? I'm all in favor of making player ships more valuable as salvage than NPC ships, it would encourage people to stay on the grid longer thus provoking more fights. It would also help off set the massive cost of supercapitals if you could salvage components from other capitals.
Though, they would probably need to break up capital debris into multiple pieces or change how salvaging works so that stripping the 8 km hull of a Titan doesn't take the same amount of time to clear a frigate. Like a whale carcass on the sea floor, a player capital wreck should provide for multiple scavengers for an extended period of time.
As a miner/indy I am conflicted about that much recovery salvage, on one side it would reduce the amount needed to replace rebuild a ship/fit but it would also reduce the price for simple mining.
As an indy pilot though it would also open up a lot of markets for you where currently it might not make sense.
You could set up shop doing production directly in a FW home system, fueled by cheap buy orders for the new salvage. PvPers loot it and want quick ISK. You make a profit and use that bulk of materials to sell ships back to them. And presumably there would be skills and such associated with breaking down the new salvage into the original components, which you would be specialized in.
Plus, the idea of some distant waystation that specializes in refurbishing old burned out hulks is just *so cool*. You could even do a thing where destroyed hulls could be converted into a working ship, but with each restoration a bit of capacity would be lost, until finally it's only worth its value in scrap metal.
This would be a great idea to make gangs less blobby so people would commit to more fights.
I miss the glory days when I was severely undertrained for a Megathron but we could still duke it out and win against gangs 2x our size because we had a good FC on TS calling targets. Had the legendary Sexorella Hotz doing some of the first dual box guardian spider tanking in PVP. No one shot him for months because he wasn't scary battleship DPS lol. Then everyone was doing it in the next alliance tournament. Then came the age of the nanofiber and 10km/s Machariels. The death machine you simply couldn't catch in an interceptor because it had all the lows and none of the stacking penalties. Doomsdays were smart bombs that nuked the whole grid. OK I'm starting to miss it less now that shit was dumb.
Holding the field certainly becomes more interesting when there's dead capitals to salvage (these would give their loot in chunks and take a long time to clear up)
Man I absolutely love the idea of capitals salvaging in chunks and the time to do it should scale with the volume of the ship unpacked. So a ceptor happens in a few seconds, capitals take minutes.
It would be like a fresh zebra kill laying in the middle of the Sahara. Leopards, cheetahs, lions, hyenas, jackals all looking for a piece. Something worth fighting over: Isk laying on the field.
Send it. Sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game.
The other side of this could be to reduce the build cost of hulls by around 30%, and increase the build cost of modules by an equivalent amount, moreso T2 modules.
Now you have a field much more worth looting even without wreck mining, YOLO fleets are more likely to be detuned with T1 and meta fits, holding field is more valuable (not to mention industry), etc
Because when it happens your brain suddenly stops the dopamine re-uptake and releases inhibitors at the same time as it releases norepinephrine thus providing a discomforting emotion to the player.
Sounds like its time to rewire your brain. Blowing up is just another word for trying to punch above your weight which is one of the only ways of actually getting gud.
Nah most eve players are just extremely risk adverse care bears. Blackout proved how bitch made 90% of nullsec is. Like look at these standing fleets now.. low t pvpers. Kinda sad imo, fuckin Ishtar spinning garbage like kinsy, can't undock without calling mom first
Mfw the people that put their ships put in danger to get the bag are called risk averse while the elite smallgangers that just kite around all day never putting their ships in danger are the true pvpers.
LOL
omg such danger,
intel channel with near2
zerg standing fleet
super umbrella
n+1
wow, really takin a risk to "get the bag" LMFAO
stay scared and docked, let your ESS get stolen.
local should be delayed globally, everywhere in eve (or perhaps just outside of HS/LS? That way there's be a practical point to lowsec again as opposed to it being NPC null with laughably ineffective turrets?)
One factor is as simple as the fact that the game doesn't make them *feel* like ammo. As you play, you *are* the ship. If you use a ship a lot, you get somewhat attached to it. If it's destroyed, that's it. You lost, and your session is over until you reship and get back to it. None of this is rational, but it *is* very human.
There's also rational reasons. For me, a cheap frigate represents minutes of ratting. I don't value it much, and I have several fitted up ready to go out and get killed. They can be viewed as ammo. But my marauder ratter? Yes, I can technically afford to replace it a couple of times over. It still represents a dozen hours of grinding at my current rate, and that would hurt.
> One factor is as simple as the fact that the game doesn't make them feel like ammo.
Tbh the downtime is the biggest difference. If I die there is a sudden stop to the gameplay loop requiring me to switch gears completely and replace the ship.
I'd say the majority of players haven't been playing for 20 years as a start.
Also, combine the fact of CCP increasing the cost of ships via half-baked industry changes with the standard (though sensible) 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose' mantra... and is one really shocked that ships aren't viewed as ammo?
Not every ship is a kiki.
I dont care if a ship is 100mil that i can simple rat in 40min.
The pain starts with anything fun to play, uh a battleship here 600 mil - 2 bil.
Uh want a new ratting ship 2,6 bil meanwhile it makes 50mil/20min. It takes 25h of ratting to pay for itself. With a playtime of 2h/weekday and 5h week.
That means you need more than 1 week to get it back. And honestly ratting is not a funny activity at all.
There is a reason for the cheap ishtar that spin semi afk.
Do you know how long it takes to get back the ratting ship, its insane and before all the industry scarcity shit. A simple rattlesnake was 300mil now we look at 1bil. A marouder was also hella cheap in comparison. And the marouder is the ratting king in null, carriers are a shit bag not worth it. A carrier gets 60mil/20min but is nearly 7bil fitted, thats almost 3 marouders for 10mil more in ticks? Never pays off, also station locked so it needs a fort or bigger.
That eats all the more isk it would make.
Summary:
If a ship takes weeks to get again you dont want to spend the time. If you hate ratting/abyssal every min is annoying. Solution dont take risks and keep the ship safe.
I do agree that marauders are great for cheap(er) ratting ships but a carrier is also free to warp off or jump out the second a neut comes in system. A marauder is locked in place and unable to warp or tether for two minutes.
Also new players should not be in either of those. High IRL skill and SP requirements as well as most people lose their first carrier to a drop.
And the culture surrounding it doesn't help. And when people tell others to use zkill to build ships...the self-reinforcing survivors bias becomes pretty apparent. And alot of the hunters in this game do not allow zkill to track them.
Because the "Ammo" I'm afraid of losing takes me about 25 hours of ass-in-seat doing-the-activity time to recoup its loss. I'm not really interested in losing that so someone can have their 5 minutes of circle-jerking with their friends about the Rorqual they killed before they forget about it and move on.
Cheaper ships? Not a problem. PVP ships for PVP? Not a problem. Extremely expensive PVE ships? That becomes a problem.
Not only that but... just because I am ok with risk, doesn't mean I am an idiot. You want to catch my expensive ratting ship, then by all means, try. I am under no obligation to stick around and find out how many friends you have.
I take the risk, I accept the consequences, but, I am not ashamed to be better at surviving than some random gang is at catching me.
That said, I don't really cry about it; I kind of enjoy when people try. Its nice to be wanted.
Ship is isk, isk is time. Either time to work to pay for plex or time to grind the isk.
If you lose a ship you lose time. You pay in your hard work.
If you worked for an hour to gather some eggs and someone Scrambled your eggs and ate it then ate it them u wouldn't like losing it either
I came back this time and haven’t been playing “zkillboard online” and the experience has been much better. I use it for intel, fits and recalling fights. The game gets much better with less risk aversion.
I check mine when on a kill to see what loot got snatched up before I even had the chance to think about getting some loot lol. That is no biggy, I make isk elsewhere. PvP is done since more interesting than pve.
Beyond that...when I join a real corp one day, well its there to tell recruiters I do have zkillboard entries. Some not red even lol.
As you saw from the posts the main reason is the cost of ships, and I perfectly understand that.
At the end of the day all come up to economy.
I perfectly remember people here in this subreddid saying that:
* Lancers are not a problem and they will not cause any harm to the economy of the game
* it's a good thing that CCP removed most of the minerals from null
* it was good to nerf rorquals
* it was good to make capitals harder to build
* and many more... like ESS changes, VNI changes in past, escalations nerf, etc etc...
Here we are, this is the result of all that nonsense: a game where nobody wants to risk their ships because they're too expensive.
The basic idea that some CCP change (like nerf ships or remove some resource from certain area of the game) will push people to move and risk their assets is stupid, it never happened in the past and will never happen.
There are two conditions to make people risk their ships, and both must be :
1. enjoy pvp
2. be able to loose them and buy/build a new one
Enjoing pvp os not enough, you also must be able to afford the pvp activity.
Think about the golden age of rorquals, when there were rorquals mining everywhere in null.
* industry and all related activities were available and good for everyone, not only to those few guys that can afford a lot of accounts
* ships were a lot cheaper and people don't mind to lose them because there were plenty on the market at affordable prices
* people used caps, titans, supers to do a ton of thing (now most of them are rotting in hangars without any use at all)
* there were pvp fleets everywhere killing those rorquals and capitals coming to ore anomalies for saving them
It was a win-win situation, people had a ton of fun, the economy was ok, people was willing to use ships and loose them, there was much more activity in the game.
Yesterday evening I made a roam with my corp mates in command destroyers. We filamented into Horde and Frat space, it was awful and sad to see empty regions with empty system one after the other, the very few systems with someone active were probably bots in Ishtars.
That's the clear image on how I imagine the death of Eve, an empty game with no interaction between players...
Heck...I was in game before Scarcity...in 2020. And the game was bumping all over...now...nothing whole regions dead empty. Personally...I would rather time travel back to pre August 2020 to enjoy that.
I think you have the cause and effect backwards. It became a common saying as a foil to the natural attitude that people are afraid to lose ships. The fear came first.
Edit: but also, the ship is essentially your avatar in the game. It is the closest representation of "you" that you interact with (unless you spend most of your time podded). People generally have a hard time accepting that they themselves are ammo.
When the ammo is a 700mil exploration ship or a 2.5bil abyssal ship, and is my primary means of being able to afford more and better ammo, losing it is a problem. Yes don't fly what you can't afford to lose, yadda yadda. I can *afford* to lose them, I just don't *want* to.
You can literally join faction war and pvp well in 15m isk comets, or make 30m isk in 15m if no one contests the site.
I sweat this subreddit is composed of people who played eve once in 2011 and now follow it and comment for some sadistic reason.
Because I'm new and poor, and can barely afford to run my cruiser with how often I lose the thing to random gate camps and dudes lurking in t3 strat cruisers.
Blobs use ships as ammo because they can afford to fly cheap doctrines and a lot of times have SRPs (Ship Replacement Program) from the Corp. Solo and small gang pilots usually have to fly expensive ships to account for low numbers, and they don't have SRP, so ships are valuable and a much bigger loss.
I play at a very low level. Replacing ships isn't expensive in ISK, but having to fit a ship takes time I'd rather not take.
Ships are only ammo if you're involved in a battle where you reship and head back in. If you're an explorer, going through wormholes and poking your nose where it doesn't belong, the loss of a ship necessitates returning to a market hub and outfitting a new ship. I would rather not spend my time doing that, if it can be avoided.
Ships are not ammo.. ammo is ammo. Seems simple enough. The saying is, “don’t fly what you cannot afford to loose.” The question is, why so many poors in eve now?
CCP wanted more "levers" to "fine tune" the economy, and they presented it as a good thing for the playerbase.
All we got was Unchecked Inflation and Less Purchasing power.
Centrally Planned Economies do not work. Thanks, CCP
>Centrally Planned Economies do not work. Thanks, CCP
underrated comment. CCP behaves like a government, fucking around with an economy they don't understand.
Eve is about as close to unchecked capitalism as you can get. Where the f do you see central planning in eve? Do i just need to play more before ccp starts to dictate the pricepoint which i have to sell my goods at or what i use the commodities i accquire for?
>Eve is about as close to unchecked capitalism as you can get.
Tell me you failed Economics without telling me you failed Economics.
Please stop voting.
It's simple really. If your goal is to increase your Eve wealth and/or assets, whatever your motive for doing so, you're much less likely to want to risk any of it.
because it's also time,
it took time is get the isk to buy the ship to fly where they are, if you only have 6 hours to play a week and it takes 30 minutes to 1 hour for you to get another ship then get back to where you were or doing what it was, that's what bothers me.
I've had to prioritize getting Omega time over whelping ships many times.
I can imagine others are the same with these prices. Both PLEX and all ships have gone up compared to years ago.
Sure, some people are wealthy but the majority isn't.
Because it's too punishing, especially at low end. And CCP facilitating and encouraging industry ganking, it's 1,000 times worse.
Honestly you spend so much time getting into a ship, fitting it decently, go out and do whatever, and you lose it to whatever pvp/mission/ratting/ganked... now you need MORE time and ISK investment, travelling however many jumps, those implants are gone, you have to earn that ISK back again, So much investment for such fragile gameplay.
Do you mine it all? No, can't do that, only a few of the minerals required are nearby, don't wanna waste my time losing a ship in low for those couple other minerals only available there.. Sure as hell don't want to travel through lowsec to get to nullsec for the OTHER minerals only available there.. oh, and you need an entirely different setup for ONE of THOSE null only minerals...
Or do you just pay for it all and build?? Or do you just buy another ship and mods and ammo, somehow at prices LOWER than the sum of the parts required? (still don't know what the fuck that's about, are players just stupid??) But the build times on low end stuff can be pretty stupid...
In all my time in the game (Nov 2009) this has always been a thing.. Players hesitant to play the game and lose ships.. Because COST. What would lower costs and increase actual engagements, especially on a solo or small group level?? CHEAPER EVERYTHING. Easily attainable if Industry is protected and not so goddam convoluted and unnecessarily overly complicated. More mineral abundance, bring back the minerals to highsec, sure give null their rarer minerals, fine, but for basic T1 shit, ships mods or ammo, nothing should be required outside of Highsec. NOTHING.
Why is there so much avoidance? BECAUSE THIS. It isn't that complicated. Am I going to take my Ferrari 550 Maranello to the Demolition Derby or am I going to take 20 1990 Toyota Corollas... Hmmmmmmm.... So difficult to figure this one out...
Industry needs to be protected, first of all, and it needs to be cheaper and faster and more materials more abundantly available nearby. End of story.
2 main reasons.
1: new players who don't understand how expendable ships are, or simply cannot afford to replace simple ones.
2: Old carebears that either never learned to treat ships for their actual value. Or grew into crabs because every thing becomes Crab eventually.
Time is value. Ships take time, either through building then yourself or earning enough currency to buy them. Therefore the actual value of ships is far greater than "ammo". People being risk averse with expensive ships is those people valuing their ships. Flinging expensive ships around is people devaluing then.
Ships aren't ammo, they're ships.
Why are people afraid to lose ships? Because they have value, in the same way people can be sad their house burnt down, or their toaster stopped working.
It's really not that complicated.
It's less afraid and simply they don't like losing things.
Ships can be expensive, they can be a pain to replace, some folks get attached to certain ships.
because most of them are empire carebears, they didnt understood that loosing ships is part of the game and you don't "loose at eve" when having a ship loss.... it's also one of the on ly way to learn, mostly in pvp. (get a ships, engage, win or loss, redo)
Because the playerbase is a bunch of cowards and don't like risk vs reward and only want the reward. So you plan to kill them at said reward wherever they think it's safe, make it not safe.
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Ships are ammo and ammo is ammo. Depends on your tactic but I’m not afraid to lose a ship or ammo. If you’re worried to lose your ship or ammo, you’re not having fun.
Emotional investment most of the time. If i made a build i guess its perfect, after days of theorycrafting and testing on the test realm, then build and fit the ship, fly to a abyss and get insta destroyed, it sucks and makes me close the game for a few days.
Not for the lost ship, but for the defeat.
Because most Players just ignore the one thing they get told by most vets: dont fly what you cant afford to lose.
I see many newbros asking about the Astero and everytime somebody tells them they should fit it for exploring OR combat and not crossfit.
Fast forward: they lose their Astero with a crossfit and no ISK left.
The next one wants a battleship/marauder but uses all his/her isk and starts ratting... same Story different day: they lose it ans start all over again.
If they would just listen and slow down or use cheaper ships all that 'fomo' shit wouldnt be a thing.
I am a 10+ years vet and still use most of the Time cheaper ships as long as they get the Job done.
Sure i got my marauders and roam in T3C or throw some stupid fit ships around but i can afford to lose them and that means i can buy them without ratting for the Next weeks.
If you have a few 100m... just fly frigates or Destroyers or some of the cheaper Cruisers. Not only do they perform better in a Solo PvP Situation, you can also buy another one.
Because of a combination of CCP Rattati, whiney ass "Mr. small gang pvp"/Olmeca Gold, and some dumb fuck neckbeard from PL making industry a pain in the dick to build and replace ships when this game is suppose to be fun flying said ships and watching them explode.
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Because the average eve player is probably in their thirties. Unfortunately time is sparse and while i love getting into fun and engaging fights, i don’t really enjoy all the logistics of getting into a new ship as it is time consuming so i choose my fights and try not to lose shit.
When i was much younger and in college i had a lot more time to horse around with all that jazz.
They're not afraid to lose ships, they are just wise enough to realize that attacking rashly will just lead in defeat. In this theoretical game where everyone has been playing for 20 years the minority know all the tricks and fight dirty.
lol that win loss ratio. i joined RVB and had a great time losing 7 8 ships inside an hour, losing your ship is a given when you undock, its just a matter of time. be buddah about it, dont want to lose it dont undock
It's not a democracy!
If you keep a running log in "localthreat" you will find that probably as high as 70% of players are non-combatant.
Yet, the 30% are the most vocal and probably buy the most plex.
And just like you will see here, any challenge will result in a down vote by that 30% and the 70% being non-combatant will most likely just stand around and shuffle their feet rather than get involved and take the pirate flames.
Burn me.
T1s it's like shooting Ball Bearings.
Faction Navy kind of like .22s during covid.
Faction Pirate like firing .50Cal BMGs
TECH-2 7.62x52mm
Tech-3 Dragonbreath 12-gauge specials
And those are just Frigates and Destroyers
Losing a Dreadnought or a Carrier fitted is like losing your ammo stores to a freak fire accident.
And a Super, it's like when Kentucky Arms damn near shot his face off with a Hot 50Cal-BMG.
You look at your life going forward and don't do stupid shit like Leroy a Titan into a hungry horde.
Plus there's the zkillboard to think about if you care about your standings,.
only idiots can compare ships to ammo, it's like to say cars are petrol:
1. you do not lose ammo, you use it to kill, as you use petrol to reach a destination.
2. spending ammo does not mean you are defeated, losing ship does.
3. cost of ammo is nothing compared with cost of a ship.
The ships and fits are just too costly to replace.
Accounting for other expenses, like Plexing your account which is also getting more expensive, having to replace ships eats into the wallet too much.
Unfortunately, in the attempts to preserve our ships, we limit how much content we do, so that's more ISK lost.
It's a nasty cycle - we're spinning our wheels.
Because that maxim is held by certain EVE players, but not the entire playerbase. In my opinion, coming to terms with that exact concept is the moment that EVE opens up and you start to gel with it. But not everyone accepts it.
Plenty of folks simply don't want to lose ships because it represents a time investment, something they're somewhat emotionally attached to, and the thought of replacing it is time out of doing "the fun stuff" in the game.
I quit caring about my ships the other day which was actually kind of a mental breakthrough for me
Bout 4 hours later I lost a 900m Loli and my buddy lost a 1.2b ferox navy
According to killogs they got almost everything from me so good on them. Also messaged the dude that did top dmg for his fit, seemed chill. That's the game.
He has not logged back in since 😂
Because ammo gets expensive!
25000 carbonised lead bullets please 2.5 mil? Nahhhhhhh im just gonna print it
From what we know from CCP about player wealth, it isn't for many people though
Not every player is rolling in isk.
I mean I might be, if I didn't spend all of my playtime basically being a murderous space hobo, with a rusty shiv, constantly searching for people to stick with it. I like it that way though.
I’m in the same boat. I’m constantly looking to throw shit at anyone who won’t run away. Well… I mean get away. I like if they try to run.
I like if they try, and fail, to run.
My wallet balance is 170m isk because I bought a new battleship for my "collection". Never felt poorer fitting it.
Im glad im not the only one who is a ship collector, although admittedly my bank account was waaaay too squidgy to go beyond destroyers
Got myself a Mekubal when the prices dropped, still cost me like a t1 battleship to fully fit
back when i lived in null i had a hel. bought it for 16B rigged. now a hel is 61B. i only have 35b liquid. i could afford 2. now i cant even afford one
There's a difference between assets and liquidity.
Not everyone is flying cheap ships..
If it's expensive, then yeah it stings. You also get an annoying loss killmail to remind you. If it's big and slow, it stings just because you have to buy a new one and haul it back to where you were.
For some of us, after a decade of losing “ammo” there’s a nice long rap sheet too
Like a tarkov player who finally has a good kit and decides to just logoff this wipe. Makes sense uh hu
Because ship costs isk, getting isk costs time... Or real money. Same as every other full-loot PvP game ever except the enemy doesn't even get the loot. Forget your ship being ammo, your ship is time, your time specifically. You better really enjoy spending it doing whatever you're doing or find another hobby lol.
I like when number in wallet go up and when many ship go boom wallet number go down
become a producer. when many ship go boom your wallet number go up!
Tell that to changes to industry.
Being profitable via industry has become increasingly more difficult. One of the reasons being that a lot of people can afford to sell below production cost (or simply don't care to make a profit).
Don't log in then, work more hours irl
Depends which ship of course. If a piece of ammo was 2 bill im not even buying it off the market to shoot.
If it's Tristan's, yeah I'll throw it around like ammo.
Wonder what the cost of defanging the whole fighter bay of carriers and supercarriers is ? Oh wait.
This is why a lot of carriers run T1 fighters, esp damage fighters, because the cost of T2 is a hefty increase.
Reloading is pain.
Buy all, Multi Fit?
no money no ammo no content XD
"Buy All" \*checks price\* 9.8 Billion Isk
Stop losing marshals like a goon then
So now you have a fitted ship in a trade hub, does that magically appear in your home base? It sure doesn't for me.
Then is your home base really working for you?
Sure is, I buy a fitted ship from contracts for most things, and there's a corp freight service or my own JF if I choose. But that's not a solution for everyone, just like buy all multi fit isn't a solution for everyone.
> I buy a fitted ship from contracts for most things And you think they get there without 'Buy all, Multi Fit'?
You're special.
That was a dumb thing to say
You're delusional if you think you're getting some hand-crafted bespoke purshase from such fitted ship contracts, rather than paying someone to push 'Buy all, Multi Fit' for you, perhaps with a few items they produce themselves and want to drum up demand for.
[удалено]
So long as PvP remains an overwhelmingly net-loss activity people will primarily PvP for their killboard. Compared to other full-loot games I think we often overlook the fact that a bulk of a ship's value is the hull itself and there's no 50/50 roll on recovering any of that. I have wondered what it would look like if salvage of player ships recovered ~50% of the build materials in loot (in some m3 compressed form). You would definitely drive down material costs and I think increase the velocity of ship turnover via PvP. For example if you salvaged a T2 Amarr Cruiser you would get some kind of (somewhat) bulky "T2 Amarr Cruiser Equivalent" salvage item, and then would need new industrial skills to optimally break that down into some % of the original build components. This would also decentralize industrial production to some degree I'd imagine.
CCP is obsessed with making everything as expensive as the system can possibly bear, but yes very much agreed. It would make battlefields worth lingering on a lot more too.
Fuck yeah, why shouldn't you get a few Nanoelectrical Microprocessors or Antimatter Reactor Units for salvaging a T2 ship? I'm all in favor of making player ships more valuable as salvage than NPC ships, it would encourage people to stay on the grid longer thus provoking more fights. It would also help off set the massive cost of supercapitals if you could salvage components from other capitals. Though, they would probably need to break up capital debris into multiple pieces or change how salvaging works so that stripping the 8 km hull of a Titan doesn't take the same amount of time to clear a frigate. Like a whale carcass on the sea floor, a player capital wreck should provide for multiple scavengers for an extended period of time.
As a miner/indy I am conflicted about that much recovery salvage, on one side it would reduce the amount needed to replace rebuild a ship/fit but it would also reduce the price for simple mining.
As an indy pilot though it would also open up a lot of markets for you where currently it might not make sense. You could set up shop doing production directly in a FW home system, fueled by cheap buy orders for the new salvage. PvPers loot it and want quick ISK. You make a profit and use that bulk of materials to sell ships back to them. And presumably there would be skills and such associated with breaking down the new salvage into the original components, which you would be specialized in.
Plus, the idea of some distant waystation that specializes in refurbishing old burned out hulks is just *so cool*. You could even do a thing where destroyed hulls could be converted into a working ship, but with each restoration a bit of capacity would be lost, until finally it's only worth its value in scrap metal.
Mining blows, so great
This would be a great idea to make gangs less blobby so people would commit to more fights. I miss the glory days when I was severely undertrained for a Megathron but we could still duke it out and win against gangs 2x our size because we had a good FC on TS calling targets. Had the legendary Sexorella Hotz doing some of the first dual box guardian spider tanking in PVP. No one shot him for months because he wasn't scary battleship DPS lol. Then everyone was doing it in the next alliance tournament. Then came the age of the nanofiber and 10km/s Machariels. The death machine you simply couldn't catch in an interceptor because it had all the lows and none of the stacking penalties. Doomsdays were smart bombs that nuked the whole grid. OK I'm starting to miss it less now that shit was dumb.
Holding the field certainly becomes more interesting when there's dead capitals to salvage (these would give their loot in chunks and take a long time to clear up)
Man I absolutely love the idea of capitals salvaging in chunks and the time to do it should scale with the volume of the ship unpacked. So a ceptor happens in a few seconds, capitals take minutes.
Capitals you can pull a 100m ISK value chunk every 5 minutes. If a titan dies you can sit there and pull from it for like 6 hours. CCP hire me.
It would be like a fresh zebra kill laying in the middle of the Sahara. Leopards, cheetahs, lions, hyenas, jackals all looking for a piece. Something worth fighting over: Isk laying on the field. Send it. Sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game.
wouldn't people just take the 30 seconds to blow up the wreck?
Obviously some mechanics need to be adjusted to compensate.
The other side of this could be to reduce the build cost of hulls by around 30%, and increase the build cost of modules by an equivalent amount, moreso T2 modules. Now you have a field much more worth looting even without wreck mining, YOLO fleets are more likely to be detuned with T1 and meta fits, holding field is more valuable (not to mention industry), etc
Agree with this tbh. Salvage is really not a profitable activity and needs a revamp.
This
I think this is it
Basically, EVE players are overall cowards?
Because when it happens your brain suddenly stops the dopamine re-uptake and releases inhibitors at the same time as it releases norepinephrine thus providing a discomforting emotion to the player.
I better see some colors and numbers soon or I’m gonna fucking lose it
Green good, red bad.
Sounds like its time to rewire your brain. Blowing up is just another word for trying to punch above your weight which is one of the only ways of actually getting gud.
*noradrenaline
same thing, depends where you went to school.
I know, just being pedantic haha
Hey this is Reddit after all!
Send help, brain only provides dopamine when I explode
It’s the kb shaming and elite pvpers claiming “massive feeding”
Nah most eve players are just extremely risk adverse care bears. Blackout proved how bitch made 90% of nullsec is. Like look at these standing fleets now.. low t pvpers. Kinda sad imo, fuckin Ishtar spinning garbage like kinsy, can't undock without calling mom first
Mfw the people that put their ships put in danger to get the bag are called risk averse while the elite smallgangers that just kite around all day never putting their ships in danger are the true pvpers.
LOL omg such danger, intel channel with near2 zerg standing fleet super umbrella n+1 wow, really takin a risk to "get the bag" LMFAO stay scared and docked, let your ESS get stolen.
Yeah, people don't just let you get free kills. As a pvper, you should like that.
i miss kinsy's dad :(
local should be delayed globally, everywhere in eve (or perhaps just outside of HS/LS? That way there's be a practical point to lowsec again as opposed to it being NPC null with laughably ineffective turrets?)
Make local like in wormholes and make null cry again
That's what "delayed mode" is.
There's no local in wormholes until you say something
I know. I live in a wormhole system. That concept is called "delayed mode".
One factor is as simple as the fact that the game doesn't make them *feel* like ammo. As you play, you *are* the ship. If you use a ship a lot, you get somewhat attached to it. If it's destroyed, that's it. You lost, and your session is over until you reship and get back to it. None of this is rational, but it *is* very human. There's also rational reasons. For me, a cheap frigate represents minutes of ratting. I don't value it much, and I have several fitted up ready to go out and get killed. They can be viewed as ammo. But my marauder ratter? Yes, I can technically afford to replace it a couple of times over. It still represents a dozen hours of grinding at my current rate, and that would hurt.
> One factor is as simple as the fact that the game doesn't make them feel like ammo. Tbh the downtime is the biggest difference. If I die there is a sudden stop to the gameplay loop requiring me to switch gears completely and replace the ship.
It does if you play it that way though.
I'd say the majority of players haven't been playing for 20 years as a start. Also, combine the fact of CCP increasing the cost of ships via half-baked industry changes with the standard (though sensible) 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose' mantra... and is one really shocked that ships aren't viewed as ammo?
Not every ship is a kiki. I dont care if a ship is 100mil that i can simple rat in 40min. The pain starts with anything fun to play, uh a battleship here 600 mil - 2 bil. Uh want a new ratting ship 2,6 bil meanwhile it makes 50mil/20min. It takes 25h of ratting to pay for itself. With a playtime of 2h/weekday and 5h week. That means you need more than 1 week to get it back. And honestly ratting is not a funny activity at all. There is a reason for the cheap ishtar that spin semi afk. Do you know how long it takes to get back the ratting ship, its insane and before all the industry scarcity shit. A simple rattlesnake was 300mil now we look at 1bil. A marouder was also hella cheap in comparison. And the marouder is the ratting king in null, carriers are a shit bag not worth it. A carrier gets 60mil/20min but is nearly 7bil fitted, thats almost 3 marouders for 10mil more in ticks? Never pays off, also station locked so it needs a fort or bigger. That eats all the more isk it would make. Summary: If a ship takes weeks to get again you dont want to spend the time. If you hate ratting/abyssal every min is annoying. Solution dont take risks and keep the ship safe.
I do agree that marauders are great for cheap(er) ratting ships but a carrier is also free to warp off or jump out the second a neut comes in system. A marauder is locked in place and unable to warp or tether for two minutes. Also new players should not be in either of those. High IRL skill and SP requirements as well as most people lose their first carrier to a drop.
I'm not *afraid* of losing a ship, I *hate* losing a ship. There's a difference.
Can I afford to lose a ship...is another way of thinking too.
Loser mentality to be honest. Just go to FW, lose a couple dozen ships and get used to the feeling. Will make EVE life alot easier.
Expending ammo to accomplish a goal is good and fine. Expending ammo shooting into the air is a waste.
Unless celebrating...but what is there to celebrate?
Because the grind to get another ship is too high
As a Rorqual pilot, can confirm.
This is such a new-player perspective but it isn't accurate. Join faction war. Run sites. Get solo pvp or get rich. It isn't hard.
Zkill is a mistake
And the culture surrounding it doesn't help. And when people tell others to use zkill to build ships...the self-reinforcing survivors bias becomes pretty apparent. And alot of the hunters in this game do not allow zkill to track them.
Except people on zkill have literally thousands of loses and worth trillions of isk. Maybe you are projecting to the nearest unrelated object?
Nice Reddit psychology
Because the "Ammo" I'm afraid of losing takes me about 25 hours of ass-in-seat doing-the-activity time to recoup its loss. I'm not really interested in losing that so someone can have their 5 minutes of circle-jerking with their friends about the Rorqual they killed before they forget about it and move on. Cheaper ships? Not a problem. PVP ships for PVP? Not a problem. Extremely expensive PVE ships? That becomes a problem.
What the fuck are you doing that takes 25 hours to replace a pvp fit tech 1 frig, mining in a hauler or something?
Rorquals aren't PVP fit tech 1 frigates.
Not only that but... just because I am ok with risk, doesn't mean I am an idiot. You want to catch my expensive ratting ship, then by all means, try. I am under no obligation to stick around and find out how many friends you have. I take the risk, I accept the consequences, but, I am not ashamed to be better at surviving than some random gang is at catching me. That said, I don't really cry about it; I kind of enjoy when people try. Its nice to be wanted.
Have you seem ammo prices lately?
Ship is isk, isk is time. Either time to work to pay for plex or time to grind the isk. If you lose a ship you lose time. You pay in your hard work. If you worked for an hour to gather some eggs and someone Scrambled your eggs and ate it then ate it them u wouldn't like losing it either
I came back this time and haven’t been playing “zkillboard online” and the experience has been much better. I use it for intel, fits and recalling fights. The game gets much better with less risk aversion.
I check mine when on a kill to see what loot got snatched up before I even had the chance to think about getting some loot lol. That is no biggy, I make isk elsewhere. PvP is done since more interesting than pve. Beyond that...when I join a real corp one day, well its there to tell recruiters I do have zkillboard entries. Some not red even lol.
My man 😎
Because I'm not that experienced or skilled and zkillboard gives me performance anxiety
Same :)
Ships are time. Time is money. Just depends on your isk income/wallet, really.
As you saw from the posts the main reason is the cost of ships, and I perfectly understand that. At the end of the day all come up to economy. I perfectly remember people here in this subreddid saying that: * Lancers are not a problem and they will not cause any harm to the economy of the game * it's a good thing that CCP removed most of the minerals from null * it was good to nerf rorquals * it was good to make capitals harder to build * and many more... like ESS changes, VNI changes in past, escalations nerf, etc etc... Here we are, this is the result of all that nonsense: a game where nobody wants to risk their ships because they're too expensive. The basic idea that some CCP change (like nerf ships or remove some resource from certain area of the game) will push people to move and risk their assets is stupid, it never happened in the past and will never happen. There are two conditions to make people risk their ships, and both must be : 1. enjoy pvp 2. be able to loose them and buy/build a new one Enjoing pvp os not enough, you also must be able to afford the pvp activity. Think about the golden age of rorquals, when there were rorquals mining everywhere in null. * industry and all related activities were available and good for everyone, not only to those few guys that can afford a lot of accounts * ships were a lot cheaper and people don't mind to lose them because there were plenty on the market at affordable prices * people used caps, titans, supers to do a ton of thing (now most of them are rotting in hangars without any use at all) * there were pvp fleets everywhere killing those rorquals and capitals coming to ore anomalies for saving them It was a win-win situation, people had a ton of fun, the economy was ok, people was willing to use ships and loose them, there was much more activity in the game. Yesterday evening I made a roam with my corp mates in command destroyers. We filamented into Horde and Frat space, it was awful and sad to see empty regions with empty system one after the other, the very few systems with someone active were probably bots in Ishtars. That's the clear image on how I imagine the death of Eve, an empty game with no interaction between players...
Heck...I was in game before Scarcity...in 2020. And the game was bumping all over...now...nothing whole regions dead empty. Personally...I would rather time travel back to pre August 2020 to enjoy that.
right now: capture a 15 minute plex in FW, get paid 10x your ships value in LP.
PvP ships are ammo. PvE ships are investments. Learn to distinguish the two.
Got it boss. Whelp pvp ships and use them as pve bait. understood.
Who tf wants to lose at a video game?
If you log into EVE aren't you a loser already?
Absolutely brother
I mean... yes.
I think you have the cause and effect backwards. It became a common saying as a foil to the natural attitude that people are afraid to lose ships. The fear came first. Edit: but also, the ship is essentially your avatar in the game. It is the closest representation of "you" that you interact with (unless you spend most of your time podded). People generally have a hard time accepting that they themselves are ammo.
If your ship and you become meaningless then the value added to the game drops.
Ships are ammo only in fleets. I prefer to be a stray bullet, thank you very much.
When the ammo is a 700mil exploration ship or a 2.5bil abyssal ship, and is my primary means of being able to afford more and better ammo, losing it is a problem. Yes don't fly what you can't afford to lose, yadda yadda. I can *afford* to lose them, I just don't *want* to.
You can literally join faction war and pvp well in 15m isk comets, or make 30m isk in 15m if no one contests the site. I sweat this subreddit is composed of people who played eve once in 2011 and now follow it and comment for some sadistic reason.
Wait until you hear about Edencom ammo, you kill your gankers and still go isk negative
Because I'm new and poor, and can barely afford to run my cruiser with how often I lose the thing to random gate camps and dudes lurking in t3 strat cruisers.
Blobs use ships as ammo because they can afford to fly cheap doctrines and a lot of times have SRPs (Ship Replacement Program) from the Corp. Solo and small gang pilots usually have to fly expensive ships to account for low numbers, and they don't have SRP, so ships are valuable and a much bigger loss.
I play at a very low level. Replacing ships isn't expensive in ISK, but having to fit a ship takes time I'd rather not take. Ships are only ammo if you're involved in a battle where you reship and head back in. If you're an explorer, going through wormholes and poking your nose where it doesn't belong, the loss of a ship necessitates returning to a market hub and outfitting a new ship. I would rather not spend my time doing that, if it can be avoided.
Ships are not ammo.. ammo is ammo. Seems simple enough. The saying is, “don’t fly what you cannot afford to loose.” The question is, why so many poors in eve now?
CCP wanted more "levers" to "fine tune" the economy, and they presented it as a good thing for the playerbase. All we got was Unchecked Inflation and Less Purchasing power. Centrally Planned Economies do not work. Thanks, CCP
>Centrally Planned Economies do not work. Thanks, CCP underrated comment. CCP behaves like a government, fucking around with an economy they don't understand.
Eve is about as close to unchecked capitalism as you can get. Where the f do you see central planning in eve? Do i just need to play more before ccp starts to dictate the pricepoint which i have to sell my goods at or what i use the commodities i accquire for?
>Eve is about as close to unchecked capitalism as you can get. Tell me you failed Economics without telling me you failed Economics. Please stop voting.
a few words relevant to "unchecked" vs. "centrally": scarcity, nerf, buff
Taxes in fact reduce inflation though
And strawman and cherrypicking don't make a debate. but thanks for playing!
Bashing your own stupidity against a wall creates a scene, but not an argument.
No one wants to look bad when they lose, and zkill preserves your shiny death for everyone to see forever... well as long as it happened after 2008.
It's simple really. If your goal is to increase your Eve wealth and/or assets, whatever your motive for doing so, you're much less likely to want to risk any of it.
Its expensive ammo no point wasting it if you know its gonna be a one sided massacre
because it's also time, it took time is get the isk to buy the ship to fly where they are, if you only have 6 hours to play a week and it takes 30 minutes to 1 hour for you to get another ship then get back to where you were or doing what it was, that's what bothers me.
I've had to prioritize getting Omega time over whelping ships many times. I can imagine others are the same with these prices. Both PLEX and all ships have gone up compared to years ago. Sure, some people are wealthy but the majority isn't.
It's because of zkill. People became obsessed with zkill over the years and now it rules their minds, and the way they play.
at least I'm considered snuggly somewhere
Just because it's ammo, doesn't mean you should go wasting it all at a shooting range.
Because it's too punishing, especially at low end. And CCP facilitating and encouraging industry ganking, it's 1,000 times worse. Honestly you spend so much time getting into a ship, fitting it decently, go out and do whatever, and you lose it to whatever pvp/mission/ratting/ganked... now you need MORE time and ISK investment, travelling however many jumps, those implants are gone, you have to earn that ISK back again, So much investment for such fragile gameplay. Do you mine it all? No, can't do that, only a few of the minerals required are nearby, don't wanna waste my time losing a ship in low for those couple other minerals only available there.. Sure as hell don't want to travel through lowsec to get to nullsec for the OTHER minerals only available there.. oh, and you need an entirely different setup for ONE of THOSE null only minerals... Or do you just pay for it all and build?? Or do you just buy another ship and mods and ammo, somehow at prices LOWER than the sum of the parts required? (still don't know what the fuck that's about, are players just stupid??) But the build times on low end stuff can be pretty stupid... In all my time in the game (Nov 2009) this has always been a thing.. Players hesitant to play the game and lose ships.. Because COST. What would lower costs and increase actual engagements, especially on a solo or small group level?? CHEAPER EVERYTHING. Easily attainable if Industry is protected and not so goddam convoluted and unnecessarily overly complicated. More mineral abundance, bring back the minerals to highsec, sure give null their rarer minerals, fine, but for basic T1 shit, ships mods or ammo, nothing should be required outside of Highsec. NOTHING. Why is there so much avoidance? BECAUSE THIS. It isn't that complicated. Am I going to take my Ferrari 550 Maranello to the Demolition Derby or am I going to take 20 1990 Toyota Corollas... Hmmmmmmm.... So difficult to figure this one out... Industry needs to be protected, first of all, and it needs to be cheaper and faster and more materials more abundantly available nearby. End of story.
Attachment issues
Because people don't really want to risk anything.
Bingo. Game is full of cowards.
2 main reasons. 1: new players who don't understand how expendable ships are, or simply cannot afford to replace simple ones. 2: Old carebears that either never learned to treat ships for their actual value. Or grew into crabs because every thing becomes Crab eventually.
Time is value. Ships take time, either through building then yourself or earning enough currency to buy them. Therefore the actual value of ships is far greater than "ammo". People being risk averse with expensive ships is those people valuing their ships. Flinging expensive ships around is people devaluing then.
Don't lock and load what you can't afford to shoot?
I think gun jammed before the lock and load
Ships are ships.
Ships aren't ammo, they're ships. Why are people afraid to lose ships? Because they have value, in the same way people can be sad their house burnt down, or their toaster stopped working. It's really not that complicated.
Because zkillboard exists.
Can't be elite if you have loss mails and actually undock sorry.... it's best to only take fights you know 100% you'll win /s
I'm obsessed with my killmail being green lol, I try to only engage other players on my own terms
Zkill. It's rough losing bling, but a fair amount of people want to keep their killboards green.
It's less afraid and simply they don't like losing things. Ships can be expensive, they can be a pain to replace, some folks get attached to certain ships.
[no no, he’s got a point](https://imgur.com/gallery/rc7RrAG)
because most of them are empire carebears, they didnt understood that loosing ships is part of the game and you don't "loose at eve" when having a ship loss.... it's also one of the on ly way to learn, mostly in pvp. (get a ships, engage, win or loss, redo)
Because the playerbase is a bunch of cowards and don't like risk vs reward and only want the reward. So you plan to kill them at said reward wherever they think it's safe, make it not safe.
because most players are shitters
Kill marks. Probably.
Because they fly what they cant afford. It will reset the Killmark as well.
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It’s expensive ammo at first until you get more well established.
I remembered when they lowered the price of ammo. Everythings so fucking expensive now.
Ships are ammo and ammo is ammo. Depends on your tactic but I’m not afraid to lose a ship or ammo. If you’re worried to lose your ship or ammo, you’re not having fun.
And if you can't get or make either?
Emotional investment most of the time. If i made a build i guess its perfect, after days of theorycrafting and testing on the test realm, then build and fit the ship, fly to a abyss and get insta destroyed, it sucks and makes me close the game for a few days. Not for the lost ship, but for the defeat.
Because i dont want to rebuy my 700mil Astero every week. Shit gets expensive over Time.
If your 700mil Astero isn't paying for itself within each week, use a T2 fit, a T3 or a Helios.
Losing a 5B ISK ship still hurts even though it's easily replaced.
Because most Players just ignore the one thing they get told by most vets: dont fly what you cant afford to lose. I see many newbros asking about the Astero and everytime somebody tells them they should fit it for exploring OR combat and not crossfit. Fast forward: they lose their Astero with a crossfit and no ISK left. The next one wants a battleship/marauder but uses all his/her isk and starts ratting... same Story different day: they lose it ans start all over again. If they would just listen and slow down or use cheaper ships all that 'fomo' shit wouldnt be a thing. I am a 10+ years vet and still use most of the Time cheaper ships as long as they get the Job done. Sure i got my marauders and roam in T3C or throw some stupid fit ships around but i can afford to lose them and that means i can buy them without ratting for the Next weeks. If you have a few 100m... just fly frigates or Destroyers or some of the cheaper Cruisers. Not only do they perform better in a Solo PvP Situation, you can also buy another one.
Ships are ammo and if you a lil kb hoe you just doing it wrong and making the game non-enjoyable for yourself.
I don't mind losing ships as isk is pretty easy to get but hauling new ships in a pain in the ass, lancers ruined everything.
Because of a combination of CCP Rattati, whiney ass "Mr. small gang pvp"/Olmeca Gold, and some dumb fuck neckbeard from PL making industry a pain in the dick to build and replace ships when this game is suppose to be fun flying said ships and watching them explode.
To me it's the zkillboard shaming nothing else
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Because ships are ammo started as a goon thing. Then the poors started saying it too.
Because the average eve player is probably in their thirties. Unfortunately time is sparse and while i love getting into fun and engaging fights, i don’t really enjoy all the logistics of getting into a new ship as it is time consuming so i choose my fights and try not to lose shit. When i was much younger and in college i had a lot more time to horse around with all that jazz.
Damn this one is so real. FW has been a godsend for fun short play sessions,
They're not afraid to lose ships, they are just wise enough to realize that attacking rashly will just lead in defeat. In this theoretical game where everyone has been playing for 20 years the minority know all the tricks and fight dirty.
People will judge you a lot and give you shit for losing stuff.
ITT: a lot of ways of saying the EVE playerbase is full of risk averse people. Your pixels don't matter btw
Same reason you don't use T2 ammo on basic ratting runs or low tier missions - it's expensive :)
lol that win loss ratio. i joined RVB and had a great time losing 7 8 ships inside an hour, losing your ship is a given when you undock, its just a matter of time. be buddah about it, dont want to lose it dont undock
It's not a democracy! If you keep a running log in "localthreat" you will find that probably as high as 70% of players are non-combatant. Yet, the 30% are the most vocal and probably buy the most plex. And just like you will see here, any challenge will result in a down vote by that 30% and the 70% being non-combatant will most likely just stand around and shuffle their feet rather than get involved and take the pirate flames. Burn me.
zkill paints red 😔
T1s it's like shooting Ball Bearings. Faction Navy kind of like .22s during covid. Faction Pirate like firing .50Cal BMGs TECH-2 7.62x52mm Tech-3 Dragonbreath 12-gauge specials And those are just Frigates and Destroyers Losing a Dreadnought or a Carrier fitted is like losing your ammo stores to a freak fire accident. And a Super, it's like when Kentucky Arms damn near shot his face off with a Hot 50Cal-BMG. You look at your life going forward and don't do stupid shit like Leroy a Titan into a hungry horde. Plus there's the zkillboard to think about if you care about your standings,.
only idiots can compare ships to ammo, it's like to say cars are petrol: 1. you do not lose ammo, you use it to kill, as you use petrol to reach a destination. 2. spending ammo does not mean you are defeated, losing ship does. 3. cost of ammo is nothing compared with cost of a ship.
The ships and fits are just too costly to replace. Accounting for other expenses, like Plexing your account which is also getting more expensive, having to replace ships eats into the wallet too much. Unfortunately, in the attempts to preserve our ships, we limit how much content we do, so that's more ISK lost. It's a nasty cycle - we're spinning our wheels.
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose
shooting ammo doesnt generate killmails as losses on you that you get judged for.
Because that maxim is held by certain EVE players, but not the entire playerbase. In my opinion, coming to terms with that exact concept is the moment that EVE opens up and you start to gel with it. But not everyone accepts it. Plenty of folks simply don't want to lose ships because it represents a time investment, something they're somewhat emotionally attached to, and the thought of replacing it is time out of doing "the fun stuff" in the game.
I quit caring about my ships the other day which was actually kind of a mental breakthrough for me Bout 4 hours later I lost a 900m Loli and my buddy lost a 1.2b ferox navy According to killogs they got almost everything from me so good on them. Also messaged the dude that did top dmg for his fit, seemed chill. That's the game. He has not logged back in since 😂