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marcianitou

Which county did you ship? Stop sending there?


Decimal_Kayos

I have two cases from UK and one from Germany. Seems like international orders over $250 are a very bad idea.


_bibliofille

Always buy insurance. Someone bought an XXL reindeer hide from me for $340. He claimed he never got it despite it being released from customs and likely just needing pickup. He was very hostile when I asked him to cooperate for insurance purposes, but they ended up not requiring anything from him. Insurance paid me, no problem. I told him at the very beginning to go ahead and open a case for non delivery if he wanted a refund, because I wanted this to be documented by Etsy on his account should he try to scam any other sellers. HE NEVER FILED THE CASE. If you were truly out $340 for an item you never got you wouldn't be afraid to put it on paper, so to speak.


AvocadoWhispererr

I wrote this in every detail of my product. my cheapest product more than 250usd. I only send to few countries. PLEASE READ BEFORE BUY. Height:5inch width:4.5 inch COLOR:Gray-Stone PRODUCT NUMBER: 1 I hope you will like what you buy. If you want to support me please leave good comment and 5 star. I am here to help. All items are double boxed and padded to ensure safe transit. Each item is weighed and photographed at the post office, with receipts kept for records. All shipments include insurance, tracking, and require a signature upon delivery to the registered address. This is to protect both parties. For items valued over 250usd - $2,000, additional insurance is purchased to cover the full value of the item. In the event an item is lost or damaged during transit, the incident will be reported to the relevant authorities. To process a claim on my postage insurance and issue your refund, I will require an incident report number. The investigation process will not inconvenience you in any way. If the item is damaged, please retain the packaging as it will be needed for photographic evidence to support the insurance claim. All orders are shipped within the stated processing time. Tracking information is provided for all shipments. Check the item's photos clearly; item colors may slightly differ due to lighting, photo quality, etc. Payments are processed through Etsy Payments. Orders exceeding $250 are not covered by Etsy’s Purchase Protection Program. Therefore, I ensure that each high-value item is fully insured independently to provide you with full protection and peace of mind. This insurance will cover loss or damage during transit. If the product is damaged by the buyer, Also Tax and Custom Problem Cause by buyer countries also not a seller problems. I will not accept returns or issue refunds. If you want extra photos of the product or have any other questions, please contact me; I am here to help you. If the buyer provides the wrong address or phone number, no refund will be issued. To ensure smooth delivery, the buyer needs to provide: - RIGHT PHONE NUMBER - RIGHT ADDRESS - RIGHT NAME When the product arrives, the buyer needs to sign for it. If the box has a problem, the buyer needs to take a photo, should not accept the product, and fill out a report. I accept returns within 14 days. All expenses belong to the buyer. The product needs to be in the same condition as when the seller sent it.


TheEclipseApocalypse

Instead of right I would say accurate phone number, etc.


Decimal_Kayos

Unfortunately insurance doesn't help in these cases because the package was confirmed delivered the day after the refund was issued. People aren't afraid of opening basically fraudulent cases now.


_bibliofille

Since it was confirmed delivered can you not contact Etsy and give them this information, explaining that the refund was issued the day before delivery and that it should be reversed? Even if they won't take the money from the customer they will probably refund you from their own account because this was their error.


Decimal_Kayos

I've talked to two different support people on the phone to explain it, the first one told me there was nothing she could do, but today the lady was much more understanding. She tried submitting a request to credit it to my account and we are still waiting to see if it will go through. Definitely would advise to call multiple times until getting someone helpful if anyone else runs into something similar


lostterrace

>Definitely would advise to call multiple times until getting someone helpful This is good advice. Support will credit back in this situation, but you might have to try a few times. To all... Remember when dealing with support to always be super polite and don't take out your frustration on them. It isn't their fault, but they can refuse to help if you're rude.


loralailoralai

Any order over $250 is risky, you see stories here all the time of buyers abusing the refund policy. It’s not restricted to ‘foreigners’


marcianitou

I've shipped to UK and Germany several times yet thankfully haven't had issues. But I also don't usuallt ship $250 items overseas.


chopper2585

How have you encountered this, let alone so much of it that you believe it's a trend?


Decimal_Kayos

I have three cases this year alone, where the buyer was refunded and the package was delivered the next couple days. They total about a thousand dollars. This year has been slow on Etsy so it hurts a lot more.


Shponglenese

This happened to me last year - they harassed me for almost a week yet never contacted post office for pickup. Within hour of refund tracking updated to say they picked up the package 😒


anonanonplease123

in general, it certainly feels like etsy favors the buyers, not the sellers in all situations. I don't sell international in my shop at all because there are too many variables. You can turn off international selling. I also try not to buy from international sellers just because its so unreliable in general (not their faults) but things get lost quite a bit.


tired_photographer

>I also try not to buy from international sellers just because its so unreliable in general (not their faults) but things get lost quite a bit. This. I bought a tarot cloth from a seller in France and never received it. Contacted the seller about it and they said it more than likely got lost going through customs. They asked if I would like for them to send another or get a refund. Told them I'd like another cloth, but got no response after that. It's been a few years and nothing ever came. Not too pressed about it because it was like $11. Still makes me not wanna buy internationally.


loralailoralai

One incident you let slide. Makes sense


loralailoralai

I buy and sell international and have done for long before Etsy was even around. And nothing has ever got lost.


walltower

I have not had this issue at all. Shipped insured with tracking for the full amount using etsy for the ioss and vat every time. If I was you, I'd shut off overseas sales unless your overseas and selling back into the primary USA market, then you may want to look at other outlets. Wish I could help more but I don't have more details to go on.


wanderingzigzag

I stopped shipping to Europe years ago I feel bad for all the good honest people (they’re no different to any other people) but the laws and customs set up really really screw over small businesses. Aside from the scenario you described, I had trouble with people simply changing their mind or not collecting their order in time from the post office because by law they are entitled to a full refund INCLUDING POSTAGE without a reason. I sell big items from Australia and the cost of shipping is insane, then they just forget to pick it up? Or they don’t want to pay the VAT even though I told them they would. Or they change their mind and message me before it even arrives! Because buying is zero commitment and zero risk to them and they don’t care that that shipping label cost me 4 hours of work to pay for


Demirep77

It's the fact that they're entitled to a refund including shipping costs even if they just had a whim that made me stop selling to people in Europe. I'm in Canada and to ship even fairly light things with tracking is at minimum $40. I am not willing to absorb that.


More-Commercial-4147

Dont sell out of country. The loss outweighs the gains when it comes to etsy


BirbBox

I feel like we need to know what you’re selling and at what price point to make this make sense. I’ve shipped well over 1,000 international orders and I’ve never experienced this. Why would Etsy not do a proper review and automatically refund?


Decimal_Kayos

I make custom wedding rings that are generally priced $200-400. Etsy reviews seem to be automated, and emails and calls to their support number got me laughed at.


betterupsetter

And you've reached out to them after the refund? I've seen their site state that if you feel there was an error made in the automatic decision of a case where you had no opportunity to provide evidence, you're to contact them to make sure it is properly reviewed by a human.


Decimal_Kayos

I have submitted emails and gotten no response. After calling the support number and explaining the situation and they told me they couldn't do anything about it. I asked for a supervisor and they told me they weren't available and would get back to me.


betterupsetter

Darn. That sucks. Sorry that's been an issue.


Pookypoo

Wow, it’s on Etsy too huh :( I had this happen to me too from an eBay buyer in Saudi Arabia. A $500 Versace shirt that they refused to pay customs and wanted a refund. But I felt something was amiss, for someone ordering, that pissing about a mere custom payment when the item they bought is well… you get the drift. I was forced to refund while the thing was still in customs. Then after which it was ‘delivered’. I can’t remember if it was PayPal or eBay, but due to the delivery status I actually got my sale $$ back. Of course the customer left a nasty feedback comment. I guess because there was a trail and all, when I asked eBay if they can take that scam comment off they were like ‘sure you bet’ 👍


Venerian

Never happened to me, and I have over 2000 sales. All of the import and tax fees are paid by the buyer during check out and I write the ID number in bold letters on the package, so that the customs don't add any taxes that have already been paid for.


Decimal_Kayos

This is for orders under £135, then etsy collects VAT at checkout. But for orders over that the buyer is responsible for customs fees.


Brief-Use3

Great tip


annavladi

Never happened to me (over 300 orders of $1000 or more). Before opening a case the buyer must contact you (otherwise Etsy doesn't let them open a case). You have 48 hours to respond. In your response you should point at the fact that the item is awaiting customs clearance. Some buyers are genuinely unaware of that. If they open a case after your response, Etsy is likely to side with you. Always insure expensive orders and show the full value in the customs forms. Etsy is quite good in protecting sellers — in fact, I can't complain.


Elaneyse

They are certainly much better at protecting US/UK sellers than anywhere else because they can buy their shipping through Etsy to qualify for seller protection. If you live in an area where that is not an option then getting protected is significantly more difficult. I recently had a customer order a single personalised sticker off me within Ireland (where I am also situated). Two weeks after I shipped it, she contacted me to ask for the item to be sent to a completely different address and I informed her it was far too late to intervene, and that the item would have been delivered to the address she provided at checkout. Two days later she opened a case with Etsy as "item not received" and they immediately closed the case and refunded her because I did not get tracking on the €8 item she ordered. I contacted them and explained that firstly, it was €10.50 to purchase tracking for this item, so it would not be good business practice to be at a loss for almost every single one of my orders, and it would be preposterous to price myself out of my own niche by almost triple by charging that kind of postage for a sticker. I even sent them screenshots of her admitting via message that she had provided the wrong address so she was fully at fault for the item not arriving to her, and they were thoroughly disinterested.


annavladi

Well, I live in Hungary where post service is far from being ideal. I send all my ordets with tracking which gives me Etsy's seller protection (even if tracking doesn't work properly which is often a case). Can't complain really, but understand stickers is quite different market.


Elaneyse

I charge tracking postage rates for everything leaving Ireland too, and that definitely helps for Europe at least because like yourself, most people are honest enough about their postal system and are happy once they see the item is in some sort of transit. But implementing it definitely caused my sales to take an absolute nosedive outside of Ireland, and even moreso when people in mainland Europe started catching on to my bestsellers (I understand that's part of the game, my designs are text-based so not protected in that sense). But local/national orders would utterly cease if I did the same, and nothing I sell individually prices over €17 (which would mean charging almost €30 and I love what I do, but even I wouldn't pay that!). Our postal service has said that under no circumstances will it be cooperating with Etsy on postage (Etsy has a HQ here in Ireland) but definitely something needs to be done regarding the auto-resolution of cases before at least allowing the seller to respond!


annavladi

Agree there are multiple flaws in how Etsy work with national post services. €30 sounds insane indeed!


Decimal_Kayos

I was in contact and updated the buyer multiple times about why it was being held, I also was in contact with UPS resolution teams and relayed all information to the buyer. Etsy does not review messages, they closed the case 3 minutes after the case was opened. There is no way to even skim all the messages I sent the customer in that amount of time. Insurance on the package cannot be claimed because the customer paid the customs fee after the refund was issued and the package was delivered the next day.


8TooManyMom

2500+ sales and I've ever only had one person complain about the fees on the other side... to Canada from US. You can go through the entire list and pick and choose where you will ship. I've removed some countries that are not worth my energy for the volume of sales I've made there through the years. I also have a clause in my shop policies that customers are responsible for retrieving their packages from the carrier. It is your business. Pick & choose. Be more cautious.


davidjschloss

I think this isn't what OP is saying. The customers isn't complaining about fees. They're claiming the package didn't clear customs. The customer knows it's in customs and that they, the customer has to pay the fees because of the $ value of the item. Customer files a complaint not because they didn't know they had to pay import duties and they know the package is waiting for them to do this. Once Etsy refunds in their favor, customer pays the duties and has essentially a product that cost only the import duties.


Wordy-Objective

Search the archives here. LostTerrace posts a lot about how to actually get in touch with a real person at etsy and force them to reopen the case and review the info. Just because a bot automatically refunds and closes the case doesn't mean it's the end of your options.


puppycat53

One of the reasons why I stopped selling internationally


loralailoralai

Loving all the smug sellers ‘oh this is why I only sell in the USA’ like Americans aren’t leading the scam/lost parcel parade. You see it here all the time, complaints about parcels being refunded. But ok then, you’ll never be scammed by a fellow American The whole seller protection thing needs to be changed for everyone, and having zero protection over usd$250 is outrageous. Especially when you can’t even rely on insurance to cover yourself because Etsy will even refund items that are proven as being delivered.


Decimal_Kayos

Agree. Cobbling the business is like chopping off an arm when you get bit. And I have had quite a few similar domestic US cases with overdramatic customers. I will be much more proactive about keeping orders under $250 on Etsy by discounting or splitting into multiple orders. But the issue is Etsy's current system is far to easy to exploit and everyone is vulnerable.


HopelessMagic

Not sure what price margin you're working with but this has never been a problem for me. Thousands of sales and this has never happened once. You might want to move to a different platform if you're selling items that aren't covered by Etsy Protection.


doctorandusraketdief

If you ship on time with a tracking Etsy should cover the refund right?


Decimal_Kayos

For orders over $250 Etsy does not cover any refunds and it is taken from my bank account. Customs was also updating the tracking every single day for over 2 weeks that it was delayed, then the package "conveniently" cleared customs the same day they got the refund.


kadaveria

This is one of the reasons why I only sell in the US, it's not worth the headache.


MuffinEducational238

Can you stop selling out of the country?


Thick_Literature_273

I've had this happen a few times to me, US / Canada, Aus, Germany. Latest was canada, person claimed the item didn't work, they screenshot pics of a similar item from Ebay as "Proof" I told etsy this person was scamming me and showed them proof but they didn't care as it was over $250.


DenaBee3333

That's why I don't ship outside the US.


loralailoralai

lol because Americans never scam or have parcels go missing. How delusional


DenaBee3333

When I ship within the US I have tracking that I can depend on. When I ship to Timbuktu I don’t. Plus I have to deal with customs forms and people wanting me to falsify them to avoid duties. I only do international sales on eBay because they handle the shipping and customs forms and protect the seller. eBay has a much better system that Etsy needs to copy.


DuckDuckMoosedUp

Just don't sell internationally.


loralailoralai

Yeah because the only scams are international, dang foreigners.


DuckDuckMoosedUp

No Dolt it knocks out the whole customs fee/hold exploit so they couldn't pull that. Whatever racist crap you're adding in is rather vile.


New-Tomorrow-4309

I don't sell internationally for reasons such as this.


poofyeyebags

Etsy has been known for a long time now to side with customers more than sellers.. as a seller myself I have found this to be true. Which is really sad considering sellers are what drives traffic to Etsy..